Talk:Ursan Blessing/Archive 4

Ursan will be nerfed

From the latest Developer Update: "We are currently testing changes to Ursan Blessing and PvE-only skills. One of the goals is to balance Ursan such that players can still use it as long as they do so in a tactical way. Another goal is to alter the grind currently associated with many PvE-only skills". Thank you very much for doing what is best for the game, Arena Net : D Erasculio 23:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I have a feeling the economy is going to take a sudden downfall within the next month. All the Ursaners going be selling all their stuff as fast as they can get it, if they weren't doing so all ready. I also have a feeling a lot of Ursaners aren't going to read the news, but those that will are going to launch a preemptive backlash. Then, coupled with the *hopeful* nerf, it will be the "WTF?!!!" heard around the world. Ezekial Riddle 23:26, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

As much as I like the words "One of the goals is to balance Ursan" I also can't ignore the words "Depending on how testing goes, some or all of these changes may be released as soon as next month."

A balancing of the skill may be coming, but it could be next month or 2 months, or 6 months... these things take time.

I'll get excited once I actually see what Arenanet's version of a Balanced Ursan is. 000.00.00.00 23:37, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Considering that, not only did they mention Ursan, but also that was the only skill to be explicitly mentioned implies that Ursan Blessing is a higher, if not the highest, priority. Ezekial Riddle 00:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I shall refuse to say "I told you so" >.>...

As for what Riddle said, it is true that there may be a large parade of worrying 'Ursans' wishing to sell all their stuff to make the most of what they had farmed in the days of Ursan-mode, hopefully they won't ruin the economy for the sake of spiting Anet, they dug their own hole as much as the skill did. Whisperer 00:24, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Still interesting to see what it plans to do with Ursan, lets hope good and lets hope such changes happen in the shorter term. Also, another interesting concept is their alteration to the grind associated with PvE only skills. 000.00.00.00 01:07, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Until i see the changes i will not say anything more on this page the fact that they have things testing there is no further reason for any of us to discussing anything regarding weather or not it is balanced, they no it is not and we know it is not now lets all just wait and see what is to come. -- Tenri 02:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

This skill is maintainable Defy Pain, Earth Shaker, Order of the Vampire/Pain, an unblockable, unconditional, Blades of Steel with maximum +60 dmg with a 3 second recharge and no cost, Anthem of Weariness for Ursan Roar's weakness effect, and an IMS that outclasses every other IMS in the game. There you have a comparison to other skills that act similarly to Ursan.

Earthshaker is easily outclassed by Ursan Rage. The innate armor and health bonuses easily outclass Defy Pain. Ursan Roar easily outclasses both OoP and Anthem of Weariness/Enfeebling Blood and note that it is one skill. Note that two of these "ordinary" skills are elite. Ursan Roar as a dps boost outclasses OoP because it costs no energy, has no casting time, doesn't sacrifice, and also weakens better than Anthem of Weariness. If you picked OoV to compare Ursan Roar to, it's only 5 energy, still more than Ursan Roar, and it bumps it up to 3 elites in one. Blades of Steel is a dual attack, with 5 energy cost, 8 second recharge and requires having multiple recharging dagger attacks, so it's very conditional compared to Ursan Strike, which outclasses just about every damage skill in the game. You'd have to be some kind of crazy W/N/P/A to use all of these. To get the same effect, you'd need a necro dedicated to spamming OoP/OoV and/or Enfeebling Blood, a tank to Defy Pain/Earthshaker Spam, a Paragon primary or secondary for Anthem of Weariness. Not to mention your perma 33% IMS in Ursan Haste, which also outclasses every other IMS in the game That's 2-3 characters using 2-3 elites and some non-elites spanning 3-4 professions just to match one Ursan, which can be used by any profession and takes up one skill slot.

And don't say -2 energy degen balances this, because it doesn't. There are Zealous weapons, there is the innate "Ursan Zealous" effect that stacks with a Zealous weapon, there is Soul Reaping, there is Critical Strikes, there is Energy Storage. Hell, you can even cast Blood Ritual on an Ursan. There are tools that can be used to maintain Ursan for as long as we wish and because of this, Ursan is severely imbalanced.

I'm comparing this to "regular" skills just to show how imbalanced Ursan really is. The point of this is to show that Ursan isn't just a PvE skill, it's an obscene mega-ultra-BFG end-all skill that sickeningly imbalances the game. Anet has made it so that it really isn't viable to use anything but Ursan since people will always take the easiest path to victory (which is unarguably Ursan). And if they can't see why this is poor game design, then I refuse to waste any more of my money on their games. An instant-win button is TERRIBLE game design. I hope this helps to show how imbalanced this skill is. 68.51.112.211 07:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

What's most likely going to happen is an increase in recharge and a decrease in damage, right now, there are NO skills with a three second recharge and the ability to do 150 damage. Even at 16 Axe Mastery a high crit with Eviscerate will only net you 130 damage, and it takes more than three seconds to get the required adrenaline. People should stop complaining and wait to see what happens, it's inevitable that the result will favor the people who believe that Ursan is unbalanced. PVE Shadow Form has been slowed down to where it takes 2 times as long, with 50% less damage to kill things. Just Wait... Cheesecake 22:50, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

That an Eviscerate can be countered by hexes and conditions, which Strike can't. Ah, yes, waiting :P One hopes the wait is worth it. 000.00.00.00 23:25, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

to 68.51.112.211 there is a flaw in your statement Blood Ritual doesn't effect ursans because they always have -2 eng rgn no more no less. Tenri 04:32, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why the economy will collapse by nerfing Ursan. Withouth Ursan, there will be less rare drops and hard areas will be hard again. This can only mean prices will rise again. Anyone dumping his farmed goods before a guaranteed rise is an idiot. Then again, they are Ursans I guess..HeavenMonkey 19:20, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Ultimately that remains to be seen, and is dependent on exactly what changes are made and how it affects users who were using the skills. Your assumption that less rare drops equals higher prices is flawed since it will only happen if the demand for those drops remains steady. This may be the case or not depending on how many users say "goodbye" based on the changes. Also, remember that most the Ursan users are farming for something and if that something (Obsidian Armor, Torment Weapon, etc.) suddenly seems out range they may dump their accumulations to date causing prices to fall. Of course if they have only been farming because it was easy and they have ample supplies of gold and aren't driven out of the game, then they will start buying instead of farming and prices will rise. Anyway, speculate all you want, but the result is far from guaranteed especially considering we don't even know what the change will be. -- Inspired to ____ 19:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Ecto prices went back up when Shadow Form was nerfed. PIGs prices shot way up when it was announced that they could be traded for new minis. Point is, there is enough of a user base that is not addicted to Ursan to cause prices to go up. If and when Ursan gets nerfed, most pro farmers will just move on to the next most efficient farm, and most regular gamers won't notice or care. -- Alaris 13:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

My idea for the perfect Ursan nerf

Leave it as it is, but make it a EotN only skill. It fits with the storyline of EotN, so let it be in EotN. I has no place in DOA, The Deep, FOW, UW, Urgozz's Warren, or any other campaign. It should not be available for vanquishing or missions anywhere other than EoTN, it should not be available in any Elite mission area except Slaver's Exile. -- Wynthyst 19:56, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Arenanet won't do that. Too many people have been exposed to Ursan, too many people ( a huge number ) have become reliant on it when they play Guild Wars, and I would say an even larger number use it on a daily basis. Arenanet dropped the ball with Ursan but they won't run the risk of upsetting those using it, they will tone it down alittle (even if its not seen as enough) but only run the risk of upsetting the "Ursan FTL" crowd than upsetting the "Ursan is the win" or "Ursan is all we can use..." crowds. 000.00.00.00 22:01, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

(Off topic) "Too many people have been exposed to Ursan..."

You make it sound like we need to impose a quarantine :P

(On topic)I think it's funny how ANet says it will try to make Ursan a bit more "tactical." You could see that's where they headed originally with the blessings with the Totem of Man skill, but the 30-second recharge on it, on top of losing all your energy and having uber skills, ruined that aspect. So how about we create a new monster with two key skills. One being monster only: Throw Totem of Man: Monster Throws Totem of Man at target foe. If it hits, it removes Ursan Blessing, Volfen Blessing, or Raven Blessing. Foe loses all energy. Make sure the skill has a short recharge, then pack these monsters with Aneurysm, as well as a few other skills to make them more than just anti-norn-blessing. We could probably find some lore perspective to how these monsters could break into areas such as Domain of Anguish or Underworld, and how they manage to thrive in packs of 6 or more.Ezekial Riddle 10:21, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

My idea: Remove from game. ~Shard 10:26, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Throw Totem Of Man seems a bit lame. Especially since I can't see any Aatxes carrying around a satchel of wooden figurines and the line "DAMMIT, now I'm a crappy human." How about Throw Totem of Newt: for 60 seconds target takes on the aspect of a newt and moves 100% slower crying in despair. Or Reveal Redundancy: Target foe's skills are replaced with the skill they have used the least in the last 6 months. Duration, 6 months. Once they're forced to use Totem of Man a couple times they might get rewarded with something better like.. Lingering Curse for instance. Foolproof, no? My serious idea: Ursan Blessing: Duration 60 seconds, disabled 120..30. Ursan Strike: deal 40..75 damage to target touched foe twice. For each ally under the effects of Ursan Blessing within earshot Ursan Strike deals 10 less damage. Stops the abuse in elite areas and people exploiting it to grind titles will think its slow. People using it for fun and because they're not creative will still be pretty happy.. or they'll learn how to make a skillbar. Spawnlegacy 10:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

My idea would be one of making it either quest or dungeon based. It has no role eleswhere. Dominator Matrix 10:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The only way Arenanet can make it more tactical is to make it effected by counters which don't affect it now. Blind. Hexs. Though, if they're only going to make it more 'tactical' I fear they will still keep their armor ignoring damage too.

And yes, Ursan was like a cancer, it needs to be cut away from the good that it could be. I am interested in seeing what Arenanet views as a 'balanced Ursan', considering some didn't see a problem with the skill I can imagine it not being very different than what we have now. I am not holding my breath for a balanced skill, I can easily see Arenanet missing the mark and just insulting us and themselves further. 000.00.00.00 11:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Make Ursan reduce the quantity of drops. That should be enough incentive not to farm with it, but leave it be for other uses (although I'm happy with it receiving a nerf too). -- Alaris 13:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Arenanet shouldn't have to make such a change to drops, a far simplier choice of action is just a meaningful change to the skill(s) itself, that should be enough to remove it as the primary focus of peoples builds. Just disabling the Blessing at the end of its use will be enough to remove it from some peoples bars [like the Avatars disable period], changing the Strike to be effected by counters, such as blind etc, will also be a move in the right direction, though I doubt they'll touch on the armor-ignoring damage, if they changed that it would seriously make people rethink using the skill at all for a lot of the game, especially HM and Elite Areas. It would also be interesting to see if Arenanet change the functionality of the Blessing, making it an Enchantment or something other than an Elite Skill. The Blessing in itself needs a change.

Its a good thing Arenanet may/is changing it, but a lot of people aren't going to be aware of the changes until they actually use the skill, I'm sure most players aren't exposed to the Wiki/Fansite communities to get the information from there. A can see many ingame "WTF" comments coming. 000.00.00.00 21:44, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I still think, as having been talking to friends and guildies, that stances and the such should also be removed, it seems weird that you can be granted the benefits of stances and skills but not the benefits of enchantments. The Mesmer Mantra aren't helping. 000.00.00.00 22:00, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

"... too many people ( a huge number ) have become reliant on it when they play Guild Wars" I don't see that this is a valid argument why ArenaNet won't/shouldn't change it, in fact I think it's the perfect argument for why they will/should. No one skill should be the basis of any player's play of the game, let alone a "huge number' if the game it to be taken seriously by people who will continue to play and go on to buy other games in the same series (ie. GW2).-- Wyn 18:47, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I think they'll change Ursan, how effectively is still out there, but I don't think they'll restrict it to only parts of the game, Arenanet would run the risk of upsetting far too many people. Like Regina has said there's a huge number using it, which would have grown since Izzy made that check, but I don't think Ursan will be change too far. 000.00.00.00 19:21, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, I think Anet risks losing an even larger part of it's pve player base for future game sales if something drastic isn't done about Ursan. I also don't see why it is so unreasonable to restrict it to EotN, I mean, the Norn bonus only works in Norn areas, and the Asuran only works in Asuran areas. Limiting a skills availablity would be a simple fix to a complex problem. The plain fact is that they have left this too long, and no matter what they do, nerf it, or not nerf it, they are going to upset a lot of people. They need to not worry so much about that, as what is in overall best interest of the game. Keeping a skill that 'huge numbers of people rely on to play' that has destroyed all elite play areas for people who don't use it, has unbalanced the economy, and has created an even more elitist attitude, is not in the best overall interest of the game. -- Wyn 03:58, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

The call to restrict Ursan and the Blessings to Norn zones would cause far more headaches for Arenanet than the Ursan issue in its current form. People aren't just using it in these areas, its wide spread, though all areas of PvE play. Restricting it would flip the current situation; only have a small number of people against Ursan into a situation where those reliant on Ursan, the 'huge number' would be complaining, Arenanet can ignore [for want of a better term] those most verbal about Ursan now, but can you imagine the giant headache Arenanet would get if those reliant on it came and went "WTF guys!". Arenanet won't run the risk of upsetting the greater domination too far. So, Blessings to Norn areas, I won't be holding my breath.

A change to Ursan itself it required, not an area restriction. Area restriction may have been a viable move a month or so after release when Ursans effects weren't so wipe spread [and it should have been limited to there from the beginning, just to keep in theme with the areas, players going to shrines and the such] but how many months has it been now 10-11 months almost? Arenanet has dragged its feet on Ursan to the point it won't risk too much. I agree that elitism is stronger and more widespread now than it ever has been, and its cruder and more rogue, but I won't believe Arenanet will do that much to bring the skill in line. 000.00.00.00 11:05, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Ursan Blessing is a loose-loose situation for A-Net now. Whatever they do - nerf or not nerf - they can't be on the winner side. I guess that's what you get for not listening to your community early. A-Net deserves it to be punished painfully for not listening. Therefore I'm not feeling very sorry for them. Let's hope the monetary loss they suffer from this is rather huge so they will learn their lesson well: if you don't listen to what gamers say, you will experience financial losses in the long run. This disaster could have been avoided early. --76.126.252.122 02:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that if Anet want to nerf the skill they should just put it in the norn area picked up at some places on the map like wurms and devourers and other mounts--Amitai 15:56, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

2 ways to nerf ursan

the first way i think ursan could be nurfed is by not letting cons get used in HM , ursans teams will still be able to HM fow ursanway but not anymore in the brainles way they use it now . this would also lack speed , and this lack of speed i think will give ohter builds a chance to compete whit ursan. i realaze that NM will still be target of ursan groups in this way and is why i think hopefully the ursans wont be to pissed.

the second one i think is better but it could upset the r10's more the basic is to simpely nerf the dammage and armor and health bonuses but if these things go dow i think the grind acompanyd wit getting r10 should also go down (wo would gring for weeks for a failing skill (isent gw opposed to grind anyways)) i think this way more people would be able to use urasan in low and mid level arenas which i think is a good thing.but becos this way ursans will be no good in hig lvl arenas the mayority of the ursans wil be pissed off redlord

No cons in HM would be quite unfair, not a way to nerf ursan but nerfing other things too. Even though they do break PvE a bit, it wouldnt be fair to normal teams or people that H/H everything (we all know sometimes it's too hard to get decent people, and cons add a bit more of brains to heros, or at least higher chance to stay alive). --karen 22:01, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

There's a great idea about cons on this page - these can only be used once for location. I think this would be great. 92.100.124.93 23:17, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

That's not nerfing Ursan. With good monks it's fine with or without cons.--karen 11:23, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Someone needs to learn spellcheck. Anyway, problems with your ideas.

1: Cons are NOT the main problem. I gave an idea on how to nerf cons on this page someplace so that they couldn't be abused like they are now. 2: "isent gw opposed to grind anyways" Uninstall now please, because you did NOT read the statement on the box for proh that said "Skill, not hours played" Which is supposed to mean very little to no grind. Fail. 3: We get failure players rushing to lvl 10, getting ursan and grinding to r10 then blowing through all the games just to get to elite areas. This does NOT prepare them for the challenges that elite areas are supposed to present.

All the other statements have been made millions of times before so please read all the archives before posting again. --Masato 18:34, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Cons are still part of the problem, because noobs as you call them don't get good monks for grouping to begin with. I think that the main issues with this skill could be actually addressed by:

• Disallowing the ability to use consumables while in an EotN form. Disabling the effect of them and any shout/skill as soon as an EotN form is taken (Ursan + cons shouldn't have happened).
• Remove the health bonus, armor bonus, or both, from the Bear form, as to give the other EotN forms at least some chance of being used (1-skill armor-piercing damage is already a good enough bonus for the form).
• Fix the energy for EotN forms at 20 (-2 degen), and ensure that any regen or energy bonus from primary attributes is disabled (as to ensure e-drain works).
• And the most important of all: Allow only one EotN form to be up in a party at the same time, as to balance the effect of the skill v/s what a normal-equiped group is able to do, time-wise.--Fighterdoken 19:01, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

"Uninstall now please, because you did NOT read the statement on the box for proh that said "Skill, not hours played" Which is supposed to mean very little to no grind. Fail."

Actually, that was exactly what he was saying. Break the word "isent" into "is" and "ent" and read it again. Read the paragraph slower, and you might see he is anti-grind.

Four Consumables in particular are particularly overpowered for their availability. Either we keep their availability and remove their ability to stack, or we nerf their availability. I prefer the former. While this won't stop Ursan, it will stop some of the other brainless grinds.

Personally, I would love to see some penalty for using Ursan. Something like for every 15 seconds active the amount of damage you take is doubled. Yes, exponentially. That would be major fun to see--the true Guild Wars rendition of Leroy Jenkins (Kilroy, while cool, doesn't hold a candle to this idea ;p )Ezekial Riddle 07:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

DOesn't isn't break apart into is and not? - FestoonedTwinklepixie 03:51, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I'll give that, however I place the blame on his god awful typing. I'd still like to introduce a little fuction called Spell Check, or perhaps not typing so freaking fast.

Other Issues:

Only Enchantments are removed upon going into a blessing(Never tested with shouts but I know Stances aren't removed) So people can just use the cons right before going into Ursan mode. Disable their fuction for the player who GOES into the blessing while their active is different and would work greatly.

/agree, remove those.

Or just fix the Zealous mod to either give the additional -1 Degen or not give off any energy while in blessing. That thing on a scythe is abusing it's fuction.

That doesn't work for those who are doing Nornbear, Blood Washes Blood and Gate To Far. Or at least make sure those versions aren't affected.

Also please state where I used the term noob. Failure player and noob are two different terms which have very different meanings.--Masato 03:32, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

PvE Balancing

For those in the community that still care, please take a look at this Petition For PvE Balancing. You'll see that many people care enough about their PvE to actually petition against OP crap like Ursan and consumables. Denizen Zero 17:46, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

proffession guides are not up to date (joke)

well i was reading the guides for playing as a monk,ele, ranger ,and the other professions, but i think that 1 guide realy would do example:

creata a factions character , proffession doesent matter just take the character whit the nicest skin . step two get someone to do the primary quests and missions for you until u reach the marketplace , then get a run via kaing center to eye of the north.( the mission exp from factions should get you to lvl 10, this equals to lvl 20 in eton) step tree do the quest chain for usan (this will be the only non repeting action you will ever preform)after this is done you go to olafstead and start farming (H/H becos your ursan rank will still be to low for u to farm norn points whit people). at rank 6-7 you should be able to find a human party to grind whit. step four (this starts if u atain r10 "slayer of al" also know as "i ubar noob") get a run to toa say r10 lf fow/uw hm speedclear (ignore the people who dont have ursan they are of no importance for u , the only thin that is .is repeating the butons 1.2.3 repeat1.2.3 ...) so you get acceptet in a party ,now equip ursan and wait until you arive at fow/uw then follow the other ursans. 1hour later gratz you cleared the hardest parts of the game on hard mode in a record time . step six anet expects u to keep farming until gw2 is realesed in +-1.5 jear by that time you should have done 12960fow/uw <--"skil no grind" runs(thus depoiting 40000obby shads or about 25000ectos on the market)(you will have spent about 60€ prop+eton+factions)(keybord buttons 123 wil be destroyed) redlord 21:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

You forgot the Nightfall part: Buy Nightfall for DoA, so you can get massive amounts of torment items, Gemsets and a great boost for your ego e-peen! --Ezekial Riddle 17:02, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I read that and found it hilarious ^^ permission to post it on profession guides :P --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 19:46, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Ursan Blessing suggestion.

I realize Arenanet is currentally testing changes to Ursan Blessing, what I would like to suggest as a change to the skill (if its not already being added) is that it no longer takes your primary attribute as it is unfair for a necro to be able to run it near all the time due to soul reaping, also remove the armor level so its even across all professions, I'd love to play as an ursan in UW/FoW/DoA teams on my monk! But most are "no squishy" teams (meaning a warrior has an armor level of 80 and +20 vs physical damage where a monk has 60 with no extra bonus. Also removing energy gain from a zealous weapon without the -1 energy regen would be a nice addition (even though i think its already being done) thanks!

Naru 07:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

They should:

• Set Primary Attribute to 0
• Limit the armor and health boost, so if you're in Ursan you don't get any extra health from skills and effects [such as from consumables] - ie: while in Ursan your health/armor [not taking armor and weapon mods into consideration] can not be increase past the health and armor boost native to Ursan.
• Energy should be set to 20-30
• Zealous weapon's -1 energy degen should stack, its stupid not having the negative effect.
• Ursan in itself should have a duration, making players think more.
• Counters should effect Ursan - thats a huge one, blind, weakness, hexes etc
• Tone down the attack output
• Ursan in itself should be counterable, so it falls in line with The Norn Bear Form and the Dervish Avatars - why Ursan Blessing was aloud to surpass the native effect of the Norns is beyond me. It was poor game design and a poor plot device to have the player exceed the power of the Norn themselves, maybe on the Blood Washes Blood mission but in any other area of the game Ursan should not outperform Bear Form, Norn just look weak.
• Ursan needs a change in appear like Bear Form, make me a spectal form damn it >.<

I could go on, adding what everyone else wants to be changed but at this point its hopeless continuing on with these discussions, Arenanet is testing what it considers viable changes, but then again Arenanet stood split on Ursan for so long so I'm honestly not holding my breath that the newer version, the balanced Ursan, will be that much different. I can't imagine them toning it down enough to change how many players use it in game. I still believe they won't tone it down enough to make current Ursan users turn around and go back to profession based skill bars. Arenanet grabbed the ball and dropped it so hard on this one it broke the floor, their changes will only be a patch job but the underlying damage is done and can't be fixed. 000.00.00.00 10:31, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

On the appearance thing, no. We have the BLESSING, not the FORM. We're not norn therefore we shouldn't be able to take the form of the bear. That's one of the few things about Ursan Blessing that actually makes sense. --Masato 04:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking more of the effect in the effect around Jora with the shader/texture of the Bear in the other pic. And, if we want to go with things that makes sense; why can't Jora use Bear Form? picture

000.00.00.00 05:21, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

To answer your question: "On one of their hunts, Jora and her brother encountered a great, dark power, and were transformed by it. She lost her Nornish ability to shapeshift into bear form, while her brother suffered a darker fate." Taken right from Jora's page.

As HUMANS we shouldn't be allowed any kind of appearance change even if it is ghostly like in the picture. Just because we gained the Bear's Blessings doesn't mean we have the power to shift into Bear Form. But we know so little about the norn background that I assume the reason only Norn can shift will be explained in GW2. Otherwise without any explaination by all rights we SHOULD be able to shift appearance under Ursan Blessing. So it basically points back to waiting until we know just how the Norn can shift appearance. Hell, if this tonic tread keeps up we might have a Bear Tonic in the next few months. I'm still betting on a Charr or Destroyer tonic as well.--Masato 17:43, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Your quote is from the manuscript and is prior to the results of Blood Washes Blood, where she comments on the curse being lifted from her and her brother [she thinks] thus why we can assume we get to see the Bear around her, not in form but more in spirit, symbolising that she was now one with the bear inside her again [the ability to change into the Bear].

There is a lot I find, with Ursan, we shouldn't be able to do. We shouldn't, on all basis, get a skill that is a Blessing for Non-Norn that outclasses the Norn's natural ability at every turn. But thats just me nitpicking. 000.00.00.00 18:38, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

But if the curse was lifted from her then wouldn't she be able to go into full Bear Form, even if just for that one cutscene? It leads me to believe that the curse is not lifted fully and can not be fully lifted while Drakkar sleeps below the lake-where it all began actually if you recall. Maybe the curse is truly lifted even if Drakkar still sleeps*But going off of Lore, curses generally aren't removed until the one/s that cast them are killed-Hence maybe killing Drakkar in GW2 will explain things*, but then why does Jora not go into Bear Form in any of the other cutscenes that she's featured in?

No matter which answer is correct, the background info that is really needed on Bear Form won't be avaiable until GW2. By then perhaps some of these lingerings questions will be answered.--Masato 22:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

It's not nitpicking, Ursan Blessing does outclass Bear Form in all ways. It should actually be the other way around.

The power of a blessing

You know...after reading all of the complaints made about Ursan most seem to be about the fact that its attack is actually a skill. This means that it ignores: blind, block, and anti-attack hexes. Would it not be very easy to turn Ursan Strike into an attack skill and make it physical damage? There by destroying the reason Ursan is used so much? That and lowering the health bonus by 100 pts would help keep it in line with the other Blessings... Done25 19:08, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Strike would need to be a single target attack, as scythes can hit multiple and would get the advantage when they don't really need to have it. Making it an attack skill would solve a lot of problems, and changing damage type to physical would also decrease its effectiveness, even if it remained spammable. Changing it to Physical is like how they changed Shadow Form so you do 50% less damage while under its effect. Such suggestions have been brought up on this and the suggestions page for Ursan.

Changing to physical for all skills is something I'd like to see, that in itself would curve the usage of it but also its overpoweredness when it comes to its damage output, especially in Hard Mode because the creatures are tougher and many take much less damage from Physical. 000.00.00.00 19:21, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Same on dmg with Skill 2 being Phys, but make the knockdown "If your Health is below 50%, target foes and all Adjacent foes are knocked down for 2 seconds." Not really good considering monks like to make red bars go up all the time, just popped into my mind so I thought I'd put it up.

Also, give Skill 3 a longer recharge. Continious weakness makes even HM monk bosses seem easy. Healer's Boon boss in HM anyone?--Masato 22:17, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Or they could make Rage a single target knockdown, not an AOE. 000.00.00.00 22:25, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Also, they need to fix the Arcane Mimicry usage. I was running around as an Avatar of Balthazar dervish, with Mantra of Frost (working with a r/rt for support) and was copying a friends Ursan. It was epically easy in many spots in Eye of the North missions [the only place I allow myself to use Ursan]. It was quite nice as when Ursan ran out or I cancelled out of it all my skills were recharged, even the Avatar, thus cutting its disabled time in half. I had a 90 second window with the Avatar. They need to give Ursan a duration, wasn't using it that much different while in Avatar Form, Balthazar's speed and armour coupled with Ursan's bonus heath and damage output O.O, needlessly to say we craved through the mission. 000.00.00.00 22:29, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, a Derv primary with Avatar of Balthazar and the right skill setup can be almost on par with a single Ursan. The only thing missing is a decent knockdown. Making Ursan last say, 90 seconds at R10(or just 90 seconds outright)and having another 90 second recharge forces the team to think when to use it and to fall back on their other skills. Of course it sounds easy to me since I'm completed the lot of HM and elite areas without Ursan Blessing, so let's go a bit more indepth.

Take an area like the Foundry where you have massive mobs packed close together. Ursan lasting 90 seconds will force 2/5 ursans into it while the others pound the enemies with their own skills, body block or Terra tank em. This leaves 2-3 ursan fresh for the next battle. Cons wouldn't matter for NM teams since DoA CAN be done without em(even on the current ursanway setup-using cons in NM is stupid and wasteful unless your team sucks)--Masato 17:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

No, a derv primary in avatar form isn't even close to Ursan. Ursan Strike greatly out-damages scythe attacks, is armor ignoring, and immune to anti-melee. Ursan rage deals a pretty large amount of damage every 10 seconds and is again more than any scythe attack and immune to anti-melee. Ursan Roar can be chained to keep enemies under weakness and buff allies' attack damage and Ursan itself gives 200 health and 20 armor. Dervs in forms don't come close to that and that isnt even what 000 was talking about. He was talking about being able to be in a form and Ursan at the same time via arcane mimicry which needs to be fixed. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 19:22, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Instead of all enchantments are removed why could they not make it all POSITIVE effects are removed? (shouts, stances, FORMS!) Done25 04:28, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Pwnzer is correct, I was referring to having Avatar of Balthazar and Ursan up at the same time, and also having a Mantra stance. I agree with Done25 and Pwnzer.

Ursan's stacking effects and with consumables needs to be taken into consideration also. Consumables are removed from professions, just as PvE only skills [heavily highlighting G.W.E.N. here], you should only be aloud one positive effect; either the PvE only effect or the Consumable effect. The combinations right now are wide open, my Dervish can go Avatar, Ursan, mantra and consumables, and for the most part they all stack and many of them can't be stripped once on. There's a lot that needs to be reconsidered. 000.00.00.00 04:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Make it remove Forms? Hold on, weren't all the forms already elites and thus be replaced on the skill bar? Still though, stances SHOULD be removed. The mantras and Phys/Ele Res in combo with Dwarven Stability are totally broken.

I'm happy with the 3 pve only skills*except in the case of skill capping but I'm long done with that* To me that's never really been a serious issue(considering how long the mantras last on their own)Hell Avatars+Eternal Aura have NEVER been a problem at all. If Eternal Aura was pvp too then yes, that would need to be fixed but the general avatar user doesn't bring the skills needed to truly get the most out of which avatar their using. Plus we've already seen Grenth raped because of PvP, so let's not mess with the other 4 please.

I still say make it 1 cons set limit per area. This way you still get the effects but it doesn't totally destroy the item. Yes, I know DoA full runs would count as one area but if you NEED cons for NM then that's just sad; even running Ursanway. Only places you'd really need em in HM would be the Foundry and maybe for the demon spawns in "To The Rescue!" Rest is easy if your team makes a wall and/or knows the meaning of the word "RUN!"

Actually my concern is no longer ursan, it's these damned UW speedruns. But that's a subject for a different discussion page.--Masato 16:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Why, god damn it?

ArenaNet doesn't listen to its customers, thus GW2 sales will FAIL. This faggoty skill has been around for months, ruining the game. But no, ANet can just sleep at work. GG. Ninjas In The Sky 21:11, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Just read the above cooments on ANet "planning to change it". When's that gonna happen? When GW2 comes out? Ninjas In The Sky 21:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Anounce came on the Dev update from July 10th. An implementing date was given "for August" if things went right on testing, since they seem to be working with PvE skills in general, and on some unused elite skills also.--Fighterdoken 21:27, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I won't say anything except, read Linsey's Joyrnal, the last part of the July 21st to be exact. --MageMontu 21:32, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm eager to see the changes and hear Arenanet's reasoning in regards to Ursan. Hopefully one more week. [crosses fingers] 000.00.00.00 22:26, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

A wise man once said "ANet's tactic is: change a skill, and if it causes problems change it again after a few months." On a similar topic, why doesn't Izzy read his talk page? Ninjas In The Sky 07:15, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

According to Regina Izzy consults with players of top PvP guilds, I would doubt many Arenanet employees check their wiki pages that often, Izzy even less. Izzy is busy with Guild Wars 2, I still don't understand why skill balancing for Guild Wars isn't handed to someone else who can give it the attention it deserves; if he's working too much on Guild Wars 2, how effective as a skill balancer for Guild Wars will he be? 000.00.00.00 09:02, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

ANet could hire me pick up what he drops off. If I was him I'd have fucked up SF and Ursan's shit. Quickly. Ninjas In The Sky 12:00, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Then you'd be much worse than him, which is saying a lot. At least he pretends to try to preserve skills before he destroys them. It's not balance if it becomes underpowered. Then it's just a problem again, because it would need to be buffed. Just because you don't like a skill doesn't mean it should be removed from the game. 71.127.159.233 15:48, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Their getting a guy just for the current skill balancing who will work sololy on this game while Izzy handles GW2. Excluding ursan the only other skill I really think needs to be fixed (again) is Shadow Form. Or some change to Terras. Soon enough the market will be flooded with Eternal Blades. Those UW speedruns NEED to be stopped. Either by SF, Terra, Ursan or Con nerf.--Masato 16:31, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

That's true, but he actually BUFFS them and his logic is "if it ruins the game economy for the next 2 months, nerf it after half a year". Ursan's been here from NOVEMBER '07.

Actually one small correction. It's been here from September, when EOTN came out however Ursanway wasn't found until mid october. In this case it's been ALMOST a year. The economy MIGHT recover, but it's still sad to see alot of the really rare stuff now become equipped on every nub in the game. Makes me miss the day when Armbraces were godly expensive. Oh, and sign your comments.--Masato 16:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

That's even worse than I thought. I forgot to sign my comment last time, though. Ninjas In The Sky 09:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Ursan Blessing nerf not fair

Ok I agree on the fact that it should maybe nerfed in order to obtain more fun with others builds. BUT.......... What about warrior (and maybe other professions) ? I mean : - Perma Sin can and terra can drop many ectos farming the UW - Perma Sin can farm raptors. - Monks can farm UW, Cathedral of flames, Shards of orr and many other things.

Nowadays I feel very angry to see that the only way to make some fast cash (even tough longer than perma sin and monk farms) was Fow HM using cons and ursans. With the nerf I can state that warriors will be unable to farm anything and won't be part of Fow, doa and UW groups that will be made only of permas and terras.

Hope before nerfing ursan you will nerf other overadvantaged professions.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Zozobar (talk • contribs) at 12:41, 5 August 2008 (UTC).

• Short Version: QQ
• Long Version: I really HOPE they nerf it to the DEATH it deserves! Unfortunately in reality it will be like the so called SF "Nerf" - meaning everything stays as bad as its currently :/ And about your Comment about the overadvantaged Professions: Uhm lol? You run a group of 6 creatures pressing 1,2,3 now. What stops you from running a balanced group having 6 ppl should the ever nerf it (which btw could contain any Class you want oO)? For me it sounds just like "OMG Nooo... I actually might need to THINK what im doing and pay some attention in the Future !!!!!111111111eleven" --SilentStorm 17:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category:Great_working_farming_builds notice that there are builds for FoW and UW there. I really don't think any profession should be able to solo farm what was supposed to be the hardest areas in the game, though. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 12:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Quit whining and play a class that can do all those farms then. It's sounds to me like your just upset that you'll have to go out and spend money on another class and re-farm some titles to get into areas. Hell we don't even know if this change will ACTUALLY affect Ursanway or not. Yes it's coming but will it slow down or stop it completely? Don't know.--Masato 17:06, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't think its going to slow Ursan to be honest, still, am hopeful. Ursan just highlights the issue Arenanet encourages into the game; lack of thinking. Once people have one good way of doing it most people don't think in any other way, but then again FW,DoA,UW have been done enough by people they've found the most effective builds. Arenanet, I hope, with the PvE changes, will give creative teams a way of trying new things.

Ursan requires no thinking, Ursan generally goes with HB monk, and its funny watching groups with only 1/2 Ursans running into mobs before anyone else and getting killed...

"Why'd I die?"

"Your a noob monk!"

"Your monks suck!"

comes spewing over the team, its funny trying to explain to them that if they had something like Protective Spirit on it would stop them [for the most part] seeing the big three digit damage numbers above their heads. I have never seen so many not understanding what monks can do; spike healing with HB can only do so far. 000.00.00.00 20:04, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

My solution:

Delete Ursan, Volfen, and Raven Blessing. Or at least make them tied only to the Far Shiverpeaks. Ursan needs to be destroyed. Make it the most useless skill outside of the far shiverpeaks or the Norn Quests.

The Blessings won't be deleted or limited to area, Arenanet would suffer too much from that.

• Make the strike a single target attack skill with a longer recharge and no longer armor-ignoring for a start, that in itself will diminish Ursan's effects. Single target attack skills seem to be possible, with skills such as Sneak_Attack, it says its a bug that scythes can't multi-hit with it but I think otherwise.

000.00.00.00 01:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Volfen and Raven blessings I think are pretty well balenced. They don't do imba damage and focus on more utility/condition usage then pure damage/KD. But Ursuan.....no comment. -- Wandering Traveler 22:51, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

I hope this stops the trolls from saying "buff ursan" or "don't nerf my bear"

OK, so all people who are gonna be asking why Ursan is IMBA and mostly, gay, it's because of this: at rank 10, Ursan Strike does 150 damage, twice. Not only feeding your ursan energy, but the damage is unavoidable, and nothing except reversal of fortune can stop it. 5 ursans doing 150 damage each every 4 secs is a devastating force. Ursan rage provides and AoE KD and massive damage, saying goodbye to hammers. Ursan Roar... is just IMBA. You can get why when you are powered up with it or use it. Ursan Force is an upkeepable Speed Boost which costs no energy. This proves that by using Ursan you just ruin fairplay. Also, Ursan lowered the game economy, just go to olafstead and COUNT the ursans and monks there waiting to get a farm team. Lastly, it makes new people want to get the skill and use it. You don't require intellect to get to r6-10 and go around smashing 1-4. This teaches those newbies NOTHING of: holding aggro/overextending/snares and speed boosts/damage/antimelee/anticaster/self-healing and defenses. (monks take care of them and they think all they have to do is make things explode, like the Power Rangers.) So next timea person tells you Ursan is for fags/brainless monkeys/idiots, LISTEN TO THEM. I wrote all this to help people with actual POTENTIAL of being gamers who now use this wrong skill. Besides, they will nerf ursan any moment, so those who don't listen to me will need an alternative anyway. Ninjas In The Sky 21:57, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Ursan Strike does 150 damage, twice. O.o? I thought it was 75 armor ignoring twice?

Hopefully a good change to Ursan comes tomorrow or in the next few days. 000.00.00.00 22:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Actually, there are other problems with the skills: Ursan Strike cannot be diverted or interrupted; Ursan Rage can be used by unskilled players without coordination at all, doesn't require a Ursan team to be useable, cannot be kited away or interrupted, and can be used effectively against un-knockable foes; Ursan Force can be used while on movement and makes you immune to hex movement reduction. Oh, wait, sarcasm, ignore that...

All in all, i hope the next patch just shuts everyone up about the skill. Poor Wolven and Raven blessings are getting jealous :).--Fighterdoken 23:06, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

@Ninjas. If anyone sounds like a troll, it has been you. Wow, what a bunch of crap you can toss out.

Regardless of what they do to Ursan or any other skill I just hope the little whiners disappear around here. -- Inspired to ____ 23:30, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

... I have a reason to whine. It's not anyone else's problem that you're obviously a noob who can't make or even WIKI a good build.

There's a little "leak" which I think is more so a rumor that Ursan is going to have dmg changes and be limited to 3 Ursan per party. I doubt that is the change but if it is it won't affect the team format hardly at all. I'm more interested in the change(yet again) to Shadow Form. I kinda lost interest in an ursan change in the last week. Gotta back into Terra Tanking so should ursan teams become alot slower or no longer possible(which anet won't do since they have to keep playerbase for GW2) at least then my skills won't get rusty. Bring on whatever change is coming.

DoA and ToA were full of people screaming in caps lock that their glad for the change tomorrow even though they don't know if it will even be worth it or not. Think I'm gonna avoid all the major towns for the next few days and just alliance The Deep and Urgoz until all the screaming, whining and complaining vanishes.

Next fixes Anet needs to do: Fix Hero Battles to not be fail and boring. That is all.--Masato 04:33, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

What does HvH have to do with this? Backsword 04:35, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

@ 000 : I meant it hits for 150 dmg and strikes 2 times (as in not 2x150, just 150 total). Ninjas In The Sky 08:03, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Ursans been nerfed

well they did it changed ursan.... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.138.8.152 (talk • contribs) at 23:55, August 7, 2008 (UTC).

They crushed it

Screw Ursan, lets all run Sniper Support ... "Boom, headshot!" 000.00.00.00 00:30, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

This is good

I personnaly beleive they did the best that they could against Ursans because if you are going to ursan everything you have to only fight for 1 min every min Tenri 00:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Nerfed too much

I never played in an ursan team but I like using this skill once in a while (I'm only rank 2). Please nerf it only/mainly for the people who abuse it, How, you ask? Make it less and less useful with more players carrying it in their skill bar, or currently using it, or with more human players in your team...the list goes on. I never abused it and Im sure allot other causal players haven't as well. Please consider my option so everyone'll be happy (except from those who abused it of course). Btw, I know that playing with Ursan Blessing with rank 2 sucks but it's a nice and refreshing change from my usual warrior builds (Anet, if you want to check that what I'm saying is true you may check my account, IGN: Ratson Itamar) --ITAMAR 23:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Refurbishment

As per a proposal made on community portal, this talk page is being restricted to discussion pertaining to the improvement of the Ursan Blessing article.

This talk page has been protected for three days. Any suggestion on how to improve the article must be channelled through an administrator during this period.

Once the protection has expired, this talk page will continue to be restricted to the improvement of the article. Any other discussion -- for example, skill balancing ideas, or the quality of the skill itself -- will be removed. If necessary, blocks will be handed out to those who do not abide by this: the wiki cannot be treated as a forum. -- Brains12 \ talk 00:54, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

For skill suggestions, use the Skill feedback pages in the ArenaNet namespace. poke | talk 11:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)