Talking to Myself: I Am Very Glad That I Don't Play GW1[edit]
I don't understand the Live Team's goals for the game. Someone suggested that maybe they wanted to reduce the number of people playing to save money. I usually don't believe in conspiracy theories, but this is the simplest explanation for the recent trend in updates:
- Recycle Old Special Items: It's fair for ANet to stop producing new minis & hats for events — it's expensive to produce the artwork and the small Live Team likely doesn't have the time or the skill. But: did they really have to remove the one thing that set folks who played since 2005 apart from newcomers? I'm happy to get the cooler hats, but it wasn't the only solution. However, far worse was recycling five minis that were previously only available if you participated in a special give-away or won a contest. Okay, sure, many of these were no longer in circulation, but I think it's unfair for ANet to change the acquisition rules so that items that were previously special were made available to anyone.
- Fixed Dates for Events: On the face of it, this sounds great: it's been a hardship on players to figure out when events are. But the solution to that is to automate the publishing of the schedule. (That's easy enough that even I can do it by modifying "Hello, World.") Instead, ANet made it so lunar-calendar events (e.g. Canthan New Year) no longer follow the lunar calendar and so that finales no longer take place on Sundays, when most people are available.
- No More Teleporting Through Obstacles: Plugging up exploits is always a good idea, but teleports have been long-used to deal with glitches in the game, notably: the lack of wiggle room for Canthan Cartographer, the near impossibility of completing Dunes of Despair in time to explore the area, and just having fun exploring areas of the game that weren't meant to be visited. In the past, John Stumme's team worked to make titles more rational. This update did the opposite. Cartographer is by far the most grindy title in the game to acquire, because it requires a level of OCD that isn't comfortable for most people. It makes no sense to reduce the number of ways available to complete the title, without offering any explanation or alternative.
I'm glad I got out of the game when I did. These recent changes have done little to make the game more fun for me and done a lot to make it less pleasant. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 11:24, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry to hear you feel the game has been reduced by these changes, but I am one who disagrees about the hats and minis. I have heard this kind of talk in presearing about the LDoA title and how they should make those who earned it by death leveling "Elite Denfender of Ascalon". This is something my shrink calls your "ego talking". People win trophies and are very proud and they should be. If you come into the game and tell me you got this acheivement, then I have no choice but to believe my own eyes. But others don't care about your wall of trophies, this is just the nature of people. They might say, "Wow! That's cool." but they are not likely to run about singing your praises to all they meet. The truth and difference is how you feel about the way you earned it. If you beat a video game by cheating it won't feel the same unless you earn it the correct way. You feel people are earning to easy, and that might be true to hurry people through GW and into GW2. I wish the Live Team would just take the time to fix those nasty bugs haunting the game since day one. I haven't been around since day one, but it would be nice if drops would not be locked inside trees. No matter how you feel about the game, at least you are not talking to yourself. --Wendy Black 12:47, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
- This is more akin to, say, gold Olympics medals being minted and handed out by the thousand. Real, authentic gold medals handed to anyone regardless of skill level or dedication. It's not just a keepsake that the athletes themselves can hold onto forever (as in your example about ldoa or minis), it's a universal token of excellence granted to players in the past for high levels of skill and performance (or, at the very least, dedication to the game). Cape trims, for example, used to be a sign that your guild was skilled at GvG - and while the core ANet staff were still working on GW1, there was no way in hell cape trims were going to just be given out to the plebs for no reason, specifically because of what they represented.
- The current team of whoever that works part time in the basement to keep the tiny population of the game from leaving entirely have no such history or understanding of cape trims, which led to their re-skin and implementation as a perk you can just straight-up buy with grind-able currency instead of anything resembling skill or excellence. It's the same mentality that TEF brings up - it's not that we want to keep our minipets (or hats, or cape trims) for ourselves, it's that we want to keep them *meaningful*. As meaningful as any trophy item in an online video game can be. If people win a GvG monthly tournament this year, yeah it's still kind of a joke because nobody plays anymore, but they still *won a monthly tournament* and thus "deserve" the gold trim. The minipet change (and the trim reskin scheme) is akin to giving gold trims to anyone who takes a character from pre-searing to post searing. It isn't a token of anything, it isn't meaningful. All you're doing is taking what once had value and meaning to the people who had earned it (and even to the people who didn't!) and dashing it against the rocks, with the only benefit being giving shiny trims to people who know nothing of their history and have no understanding of what they represent.
- Take a look at, say, World of Warcraft for a good example. There are some items that are simply not obtainable anymore. Armor sets, several legendary weapons, a fair number of mounts - you had to be around for them to get them. But blizzard isn't wheeling them all out again to placate whoever's still playing. They had their time, they had their meaning - putting back in the legendary Qiraji mount that required taking part in the server-wide raid quest chain and letting any pleb do a short ass quest chain to get the exact same thing would completely destroy the item's meaning and shit all over its history. That's not something Blizzard is keen on doing. Sometimes they make nods to older raid items or bosses with flavor text on new drops, but they don't wheel out the old stuff for no reason other than boredom and lack of art department.
- If anet wants to thank people for still playing their game in 2013, they should just give large amounts of currency. Like seriously, 20 plat per quest. I can only see two camps of people still playing GW1; those bogged down by nostalgia, who remember the good old days in 2005 when the PvP was fresh and the game had limitless opportunity, or the people who picked up GW2 and saw shiny fiery dragon swords and want to grind one out as quickly as they can. Giving minipets and cape trims to either of these parties seems trite and meaningless - all you'd do is offend the first group who remembered when those items actually stood for something, and offer clutter and junk to people trying to grind out titles and armor sets. Just give them something useful to speed them on their way (cos seriously, capping hundreds of elites on one char gets fucking expensive for someone just picking up the game). -Auron 11:12, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
- Interesting, I got the roller beetle for my rangers as a pet just this year. While the model might not be "new" I am under the assumption this is new content and whatnot? Also Mrs. Black and I share a common thought about Guild Wars, "You can't throw the baby out with the wash water.". We don't care much for people who login just to spout hate on Guild Wars 1 or 2. Also I sense some real "elitist" attitudes from both of you. Auron says, I can only see two camps of people still playing GW1; those bogged down by nostalgia, who remember the good old days in 2005 when the PvP was fresh and the game had limitless opportunity, or the people who picked up GW2 and saw shiny fiery dragon swords and want to grind one out as quickly as they can. I know many people who don't fit in your camps sir, I found Guild Wars because people at my college were talking about the sequel coming out. I was playing Star Trek Online and purchased the Trilogy with no opinion about Guild Wars II. Today I have owned only the Trilogy for not even a year, I have yet to complete a campaign but I think I am close. So the "good old days" for me was last Wintersday. I personally have knowledge of recruiting only one person into our guild from GW2 who honestly said he is here just for his HoM. The rest of us enjoy the game and continue playing. The guild "The Imaginary Friends" is something wonderful I am part of most of us, I suppose are just a bunch of plebs (non-aristocratic class of freed slaves) to your high and mighty. We do have some veteran players in our guild who have played for years and continue. They don't look down on us plebs either.
- If you think Guild Wars has become corrupted by the developers, then you never played Star Trek Online by Cryptic. Ever since the game company was purchased by PWE, they do nothing but attempt in game sales. Not the little blurb I get about "Buy EotN" when I login. Sales inside the game. You dogfight in space and find loot, then you pray to God it is not a lock box. The store sells keys for real cash (about a dollar) to open the lock box. Can you say, scratch off ticket? I knew you could. I was pay to play originally and they went Free to Play when PWE took over. I just don't play any more. I didn't stop because they gave away freebies, bonuses to new players, or new content. I quit because I no longer enjoyed the game. It became an online casino. When or IF I leave Guild Wars, I will leave with some dignity and NOT insult the players coming in the door on my way out. Simon of Aragon - talk 12:22, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
- Wow. I didn't think I'd be setting off a firestorm.
- @Simon: I'm not sure why you think I'm spouting hate at the game. I'm saying I'm glad I stopped playing it before it morphed into something I wouldn't have been able to enjoy. It's because I loved the game that I took the time to critique the live team's actions. @Wendy: I never complained about title acquisition. On the contrary, until the most recent update, I thought Stumme's team did great work making titles simpler to obtain. Sweets could be spammed, so why couldn't we spam drinks, too? Why did you have to die a gazillion times to become "Legendary" in pre-Searing? Why was "Survivor" not about "surviving" but about playing iron man? (the variation of an RPG where you have to delete your character if it dies, starting from scratch each time).
- Simon also spoke about elitism, but I wrote about exclusivity. ANet didn't think that was a bad thing for GW2 (legendaries) or for GW1 (gold trim guilds, special minis for contests, special artwork for events). But suddenly, John Stumme decided that exclusivity was improper and removed something of value from the game for veterans, without offering anything to them in return. Auron phrased it well, when he compared it to deciding to give people gold medals for showing up at the Olympics, instead of creating a replica that people could purchase at the gift shop. The festival hats are...relatively minor, but re-using the minis? I really can't fathom how that could be fair to the people who signed up for a contest expecting an exclusive reward. Should games have exclusive items in the first place? Perhaps not, but that doesn't mean it's ok to remove those things from the game, especially since there are other solutions available to ANet.
- Put another way: people took specific steps to earn exclusive items and, in my strong opinion, ANet arbitrarily decided to withdraw that reward.
- And to be doubly clear: I don't have any of those coveted items. Not the exclusive minis, not the early year hats. (From all the festivals I participated in, there were only two hats that I liked well enough to recreate after that event: scarves and the pilot cap. However, there were several from previous years that I wish I had earned.)
- Finally, my fundamental criticism of the Live Team's efforts is that they are working hard and yet making things less pleasant. Surely, the idea is to work less hard and make things more fun. Creating a predictable schedule of events is smart; being unable to accommodate Sundays and Lunar calendars seems misguided at best. Fixing/removing exploits is smart; removing fun stuff from the game that didn't hurt other players is not. And I've already made my argument above about why I think they could have offered something special for new players and new birthday presents, without taking something away from veterans.
- In short, I loved the GW1 I played. I stopped because I'm having a lot more fun with GW2. Auron's a lot more cynical about ANet, GW1, and GW2 than I am. I know a lot of people who play GW1 from time to time, and a few who never left. (I admit I don't know anyone who started recently, but that's because I have no way of meeting them any longer.) Until now, I would have wholeheartedly recommended GW1 to people new to MMOs looking for a cheap & simple game that still has a lot to offer. Since the last few updates, I can only halfheartedly endorse the original. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 22:24, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
- Sorry for the wall of text TEF, Simon is right about the fact that I don't care for people spouting game hate, but I did not read that into what you were saying at all. In fact, when the trolls come in Guild Wars and start up with, "Why aren't you people playing Guild Wars 2? This game sucks.", I have several good replies.
- "<troll X>, what exactly got you banned from Guild Wars 2?"
- "I sorry, I was busy alpha testing Guild Wars 3."
- "You mean there is a sequel to this game? I will get to it, just as soon as I finish this one." (While in standing presearing)
- Well if you read my talk page lately, you know I think survivor is best acquired from EotN. People getting it in pre are just being egocentric and to show off a bit. I have 4 "Defender of Ascalon" title characters and the Baron hangs in pre mainly to assist new people. @Auron: Yes, you cannot pigeon hole all GW players into just 2 categories. I am certain there are more players who just use the game to hook up with old friends, relive fond memories, and some like my youngest son (19 now) who gets on just to "do crazy ass shit" with mom. There are new people in my guild who have recently purchased Guild Wars and don't own Guild Wars 2 at all. Undying Leach and Simon of Aragon are just two of them off the top of my head.
- I never said you didn't deserve your game trophies, just wanted you to be proud of how you earned them. I don't see it being as big as Auron's Olympics gold medals but more like bowling trophies LoL. As an analogy to this; I see it would be like me being winning a big match bowling and as I am heading out with my trophy, I see that others can come in and just purchase a trophy. No big deal to me, I know and the people who witnessed it know how I got mine. I guess that about sums up my opinion. --Wendy Black 07:50, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
- I think your analogy fails in some regards, Auron.
- They are NOT handing out gold medals to everyone. The only way to acquire gold capes (the equivalent) is still by winning a tournament - they cannot be bought.
- Also silver and poop trims (from tourneys) vanish after a month. So you can't show them off after a relatively short time anyway. And seriously, who ever boasted with his/her number of poops?
- I think what rawr did with their free invitation for every idiot who was able to post on their webpage was far closer to giving away Olympic gold medals to the plebs than what ANet is doing now. Or selling gold cape guilds for real mon... owait, that never happened. (This is not to bash or shittalk rawr!)
- This means imo: The only trim which really matters is still exclusive and there's no real reason to get excited about this change.
- Out of curiosity: What's up with the miniature drama? Are you guys refering to the 7th bday minis? In that case I can't really understand the commotion either. The henchman contest showed that winning an ANet contest means jack shit. Or getting a lucky draw? What does that have to do with "skill or performance" which Auron mentioned?
- Or are you refering to the "XXX Accessory Token" or "Imperial XXX Token"? Really? Seriously? You get excited about items with purely cosmetic qualities? Steve1 20:15, 28 February 2013 (UTC)
Good show![edit]
Good catch on my error earlier and WELCOME BACK!!.MystiLefemEle 11:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
