User talk:Yoshida Keiji/Archive 3

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Guild Wars Wiki Dragon

How come the GWW has so few Dragon images? We need some more with transparent backgroups instead of plain white. Who's with me? User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 07:55, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Your templates

In the future when creating user box templates, they should have [[Category:User box templates]] enclosed with "noinclude", e.g. <noinclude>[[Category:User box templates]]</noinclude> [1]. --Silver Edge 08:09, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for the fixes and notice. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 08:11, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
My user page looks weird now. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 08:36, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
I don't understand why the transclution is failing with {{User:Yoshida Keiji/Yoshida Keiji}} to display properly at my main user page User:Yoshida Keiji, but had temporaly solved it with a {{clear}}. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 09:07, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
I believe it was due to the edit you made to Template:Userbox, which I have since reverted. Try removing the {{clear}} and see if that issue still exists. --Silver Edge 09:30, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
Double thanks. I still wander if other users won't have the same issue in the future by following the Template:Userbox usage there. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 09:36, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

About salvage table

Hello! First of all, I should say that reverting on talk page is not good, in my opinion. Even if there is no policy about talk pages here, the w:WP:TPO advised not to do this, except of obvious cases like removing vandalism of fixing the wrong page format. Non-abusive info should not be undone, only commented, fixed etc. (would it be a page like Article/Research, undo would be suitable like in main namespace).

Now about the essence of problem. Yes, I changed the format of the table because I realised that it's not good for my case. There is no column "amount of items tested" in the table, although it should be. Let look at the research tables of the presents: for example, Gift of the Traveler/Drop rate or, maybe more easy, Festival Prize/Drop rate. First column shows the number of items which were opened (processed, tested). My approach was exactly the same, need to add the data which eventually allow to get the reliable statistics. Was it wrong? I don't think so. Currently in Wiki, the statistics of presents is the best, some pages with data of dropped weapon are good, but situation with trophies is poor.

Among a number of talk pages with two recently inserted research tables I haven't seen much of the filled second table. Why are they so rare? If people don't like to add their data, what is a problem? I should say that GWW:ITEM page doesn't contain the examples of the table, the same on the discussion page; no attempts to compare different visual design or make the table similar to the table of presents, as possible. Why is this important? Because these tables are addressed to wide audience, not only to experienced Wiki writers. On the Talk:Minotaur_Horn page I see that the amount is mentioned as "X units/Y times". This is arbitrary approach which is not reflected on the formatting page at all. In my opinion, current format of salvage table is sub-optimal or simply wrong. --Slavic 01:43, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Hello. There is policy for that in GWW:TALK, but don't look at it as a revert. It's more a clean-up. I have literally been through exactly all Trophy pages, and I really mean each of them. It was me who fixed all drop and salvage tables to make them consistent across the entire Wiki. Your edit had two problems.
1.- Guild_Wars_Wiki:Formatting/Items#Acquisition, the accepted guideline does not indicate the need to include the number of units a player had salvaged.
2.- The most important data entry analysis. If you sum-up what you have obtained after a grand scale salvage process, you lose precision on:
  • How many times a same item had provided: 2 units, 3 units or 5 units and so on. Which is useful information to those interested in percentage rates. This is something Alex was working on about a new template with mathematical calculations.
Just compare all other tables and you will see that the practice is:
2 units / 5 times.
3 units / twice.
This method of data entry is to avoid somebody to enter five lines of 2 units, extending the table extremely long, and there were many like this before I uniformed them all. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 06:15, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Well, if the discussion about format of salvage table was not completed on its page, then let we do this here. (I note in brackets that you can call the revert with any other word, like "clean-up", but this doesn't cancel the fact that it is a revert, technically and factually, which is not comply with the policy you mentioned above).
The page Guild Wars Wiki:Formatting/Items indeed has a status accepted guideline, however, it is not carved in the stone and can (and should) be examined, discussed and criticised. This is a fragment of guideline which is a subject of discussion here:
<!--Include one of the following tables on the item's talk page. -->
<!--The first table is for trophies and stackable salvage items. -->
<!--The second table is for non-stackable salvage items. -->

== Expert salvage research ==
Expert salvage research for {{SUBST:PAGENAME}}

{| {{STDT}}
! Material || Amount || Signature
| [[MATERIAL]] || Amount || ~~~~
This has been added in revision 9.01.2009, quite long time ago. However, this table was never implemented on the most of talk pages since that. I attempted to find a background of this addition on the discussion page and unfortunately, found nothing. It's hard to comprehend why such incomplete table has been proposed and added to the guideline. It seems that this table remained as project only. Later, your notices and different versions of tables started in this discussion since 15 May, where you use the templates with question marks; one of them (with 3 empty lines) later was placed on the multiple discussion pages. I can conclude that you decided to reanimate an old format, but without significant changes and discussion; instead of improving it like adding new columns or change the names of columns, you decided to enter more than one value in the table cell: Talk:Abnormal_Seed.
Material Amount Signature
Plant Fiber 2units/31times Karasu (example)
Plant Fiber 3units/95times Karasu (example)
In my opinion, such kind of entering the data is against the common sense of the arranging the data in the table; this makes harder the reading and interpretation of data. The terms "units" and "times" are not defined, they are not a part of table header and may be used or not used on different pages; "Amount" may have different meanings. Again, such approach is not documented on GWW:ITEM and its discussion page. You have changed format in your way, why other people should be restricted in this?
Here is my version of table which uses the presents research (Festival Prize) as prototype, for example, for Pillaged Goods:
Expert or
Pile of Glittering Dust Ruby Tempered Glass Vial Vial of Ink Signature
10 E 0 1 4 5 --Username (example)
This kind of table uses the similar approach as presents which are well known for most of players. No need to enter the names of materials because they are already known and provided in the column headers. The column "Expert of Common" allows to enter different data in one table instead of two tables in current version. If you count something here imperfect, wrong, or insufficient, this can be improved. But the approach itself is much better than currently proposed table, even with some ambiguous improvements. --Slavic 08:30, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

  • Regarding this question: "Again, such approach is not documented on GWW:ITEM and its discussion page. You have changed format in your way, why other people should be restricted in this?"
I had another discussion here: Talk:Expertise#Highlight, which I transcribed here: User:Yoshida_Keiji/Favourite_Quotes.
I share your ideas that the tables could be improved. Together (you and I), we worked out the Farming sections, notably the map display in main space. So you already know how Formatting Guidelines can be updated. Elaborate a formal proposal and post it Guild Wars Wiki talk:Formatting/Items. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 09:16, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Revert wars

re: Regent Valley

Why are you bothering with a revert war? Please discuss the issue on the talk page, work towards consensus, and ...heck, I'm sure you have better things to do than worry about whether a bullet point gets indented or not.

Alternatively, you could restore some like the version I offered, which was deliberately phrased so it was relevant to hard mode generally (and not just for people VQing in the area). Heck, my first time there, I got trashed by the eles in the area in nm (not knowing any better). Thanks. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:54, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Well...technically speaking there is not really much of a "Revert War" because this User: Special:Contributions/ - User:Rockstar makes non-sense edits 90% of his/her time with no "real content" literally speaking there is little to dispute about.
Just check the history of this user:
This guy/chick doesn't really provide any ground of discussion, so it won't make any difference talking to an user who doesn't listen and never signs comments. To me it's just my average maintenance-bookkeping rather a "Revert War".
Now, coming back to our usual serious talks. I have read your comment in one of the explorable area pages where you suggest a user take a proposal to the Community Portal and maybe create a special/exclusive section for Vanquishes. What would you be doing in Regent Valley in Hard Mode, if not for a Vanquish? Just sadomasochism? I don't think so. Fort Rank is the common start point and those foes are right at the beginning. Now I am currently revisioning Explorable Areas as of late and all pages I have checked do have notes under Vanquish, which determines these notes as common practice and its okay. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 06:46, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Are you saying that that user and that ip are the same person? --snogratUser Snograt signature.png 18:39, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Well...both users history records share the same interest. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 01:00, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

There are other groups with Renegade Elementalists isn't there? I did the VQ a long time ago. If that's true, the group outside Fort Ranik isn't particularly notable. A general note about the eles would be better, just like Hydras in Ascalon (especially Dragon's Gullet).--Relyk 01:33, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
My memory tell me those are the only in the whole area, and I also remember some Charr heading towards Fort Ranik near the aqueduct. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 01:37, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Lost in digressions

(Reset indent) Alas, my point was lost: by definition, if you revert more than once, you are warring. Try to pull the person into a discussion; there are only four possible scenarios at that point:

  • They are willing to discuss → result: consensus and the crowds cheer.
  • They are unreasonable → result: the community rallies behind the defender of the status quo (or the last editor, e.g. you) and the edit stays; the crowds cheer.
  • They are trolling → result: they are not fed, they go away and the crowds (silently) cheer.
  • They are vandals or douchebags → result: they get banned. And the crowds (silently) cheer.

See? Everyone's happier (or, at the very least, less unhappy). About one time in ten, the person at the other end can be turned from being an annoyance into being a useful contributor. (That never happens after an edit war.)

If you are going to choose to draw a line in the sand, you might also want to choose something more important to players. Any point about mobs in HM can be sub to VQ notes, but it's just as valid to say that they are about the zone generally. Certainly, some people are going to prefer to see a sub-bullet (e.g. you) and others (e.g. Rockstar) aren't. But the average reader isn't going to care. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:36, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Something that I haven't said yet is that I have been an Administrator/Moderator of five different Hotmail Messenger Community Forums during three straight years. That experience has always being of good use to me. Pity that the server deleted them all so you can't see the results of my works there. How do I bring that background to my regular bookeeping? When I have the time to check recent changes one by one, I will also notice IP's or registered users that had made more than one edit in a day or last days. When that is the case, I go double-check past contributions, user page and it's talk page. Anybody can see User:Rockstar (Special:Contributions/ just bullshitting others. Either people come here to help or only to shit others, I can read people by their words, and I am very good at this. I know when to talk and also know when words don't reach. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 07:53, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


Your HoM shows your lack of GW experience and knowledge. I assume you're a fairly new GW player. Maybe if you spent less time on GWW reverting (crying) everyone's (more experienced than you) changes (not just mine, notably Alex and TEF), and more time playing the game, you wouldn't be such a noob. Rockstar 15:01, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I never cared about HoM that much. I have encountered hundred of players with 50/50 and GWAMM, their Obby armor and Tormented Shield and Emerald Blade... but when you see them play... I know they suck balls. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 15:56, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
I have GWAMM, 50/50 and all that crap, yet I suck balls worse than you can possibly imagine. Disputes with fellow editors should be attempted to be settled amicably, rather than talk page trolling. --snogratUser Snograt signature.png 16:17, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
""Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious", Sun Tzu"
"故曰:知彼知己,百戰不殆;不知彼而知己,一勝一負;不知彼,不知己,每戰必殆。,孙武" Sun Tzu
User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 16:38, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
stop feeding the troll -Auron 00:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

After you seem to dislike GW2...

I am not sure, if you will find it annoying or helpful, but i will see your reaction early enough^^. What we will miss totally in GW2 are unique Skill abilities, healers and interrupters. Nothing, you are not already aware of.

The skills in GW2 may miss a bit variation, after all they are only different combinations of range, aoe, limited effects and duration, but the peofessionmechanic and limited number of skills and the way to use them (channeling, ground-targeted, modifications through traits) give at least the balance we always missed in GW1 (although it will never be perfect in GW2 again) and give a complete different feeling for each profession.

They may say, there will be no Monk again (or rather a paragon), but the supportabilities say something else: Area-Healing, -Regeneration, -Protection, -Stability, the times players can use this may are limited, but they have all such stuff, working in a different way (although you have no use for such builds without a guild to play with).

I didnt have a paragon, so i cant compare to your fav profession, but i played around with Necro, it worked in so many different ways, like an lifestealing assassine, a MM, a conditioner, an AoE-Ele around yourself, the skills have less variation than they could have, but through the dynamic fightsystem it makes far more fun and feels far more different than the different builds in GW1 ever did.

You said, you are missing a challenge cause spamming skills and no needed teamplay, but the right timing of dodging, healing and using the effects of your skills make a big difference in your strength. Furthermore, if you play in a team, your supportbuilds are from great use and to play them is more problematic than pure DD.

I dont say, GW2 is the awaited wonder it calls itself and it has many stuff that sucks compared to GW1, there were also a few threads in the forums, that they horrible dislike GW2, but the majority liked it. I lack in game-expirience beside GW1, but i think, you have to play it at least three hours to get, if you really totally dislike it, but for me i liked the playing with others (random) far more than in any other game and if you dont like the teamplay, to play it alone feels a bit like Legend of Zelda without the intens OP of yourself. --Naruuu 21:41, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

  • I said that Paragon was my first-born character, I don't think its my favourite, and I have 10 characters one per profession as you can check in my main user page.
  • Challenge missing: my greatest fear of GW2 comes from watching a preview video in which Colin Johanson (Content Design Lead) comes out and says: "-Dying is okay.-" with a very stupid facial gesture. I am imagining GW2 battle grounds with people falling like if made of origami (paper). The new "revive" feature scares me where all I will see is noobs QQing "-REZ MEHHH!!!-"...while idiots would increase the enemies numbers and difficulties while unbalancing the friendly side due to imcompetent retards. If with 7 years of GW1, people never learnt to "CAP"... we can't expect them do any better in GW2.
  • The problem of buying to test those 3hs is that ANet already got your money, unless they do a free to play version. The beta tests could have been of good use for me to check out, but since player progress was not going to be "saved", to me that's a waste of time considering that I have/enjoy given my GW1 time to help others, lead my own made guild, manage our forum and also the wiki; I try to do as much as I can while free of requests (which is rare); there's still is plenty of stuff for me to do in I never applied to receive a beta test invitation. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 13:20, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Temporary absence

I hope your impending move is a good thing (and just a beats-the-alternatives situation). Good luck with the new job, the new town, and all that entails. (We'll save you some cake for when you return.)

(PS please email me if there's something I can tackle for you on the wiki during your transition.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. Yes, it's a change for the better without any kind of pressure. Im skillful and new jobs are easy challenge. From where I am leaving (Mishima city) to where I am going (Gotenba city) there is only a 30 minutes car travel, still feels around in the same neighbourhood. This is my last 3hs-4hs log-in until Friday. Making the move in two or three times, my internet connection here is still functioning. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji talk 07:30, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Test Krewe source

I am confused as to whom your source is at anet for your changes on the tk page they all look like things you made up instead of someone at arena net telling the community what happened or didn't happen with the tk. also if it isnt a arena net employe then they are leaking/breaking the nda that they signed, or are just giving you assumptions and if they are leaking then you need to report them to arenanet.- User Zesbeer sig.png Zesbeer 07:21, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Two things about that - the source was me, I was recruited as one of the PvPers on the krewe, and went inactive after it became apparent ArenaNet gave no shits about the PvP testing or balance issues. Secondly, that edit... wasn't made with complete knowledge of the krewe. I was talking specifically about the PvPers - 16 of us (enough for 2 full teams) were recruited with the idea that we'd be able to scrim GvG and "thoroughly" test all changes. There were over a hundred PvErs recruited, well enough to get full groups for content regardless of timezone, but timezones prevented the PvPers from *ever* getting a real scrim done, and quite honestly, a single 8v8 scrim doesn't mean shit anyway.
Regardless, it didn't matter - ArenaNet did not care about PvP. Our suggestions for mechanics changes were ignored, our outcries over ridiculously broken skills were ignored, and if a person got the balls to post anything close to "wow, that looks like the worst idea I've ever seen" they got immediately banned from the forums and removed from the krewe (this happened to a friend of mine that called the whole Flux idea retarded - and he was right, lol). I think they just recruited PvPers just to say they did - no actual PvP content came out to test, all skill changes were pushed through regardless of what we said about it, etc. The PvE krewe was busy testing war in kryta and similar content (which us PvPers were allowed to do as well, and often did because we had nothing on our end to test... or just not enough PvPers on to test it), but pretending to include PvPers in the Krewe was ANet's last "fuck you, PvP" in GW1 before they stopped caring about it entirely.
Anyway... need to tweak that article. -Auron 09:10, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


Please stop adding "categorize = n" to non-skill history pages and pages of skills that haven't been removed. E.g. Shock Arrow and Shell Shock. Those pages should be categorized. --Silver Edge 07:23, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Ooops sorry. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji (talk) 07:26, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Henchmen bars

I know that you're well aware that Mhenlo's bar is fixed for his occurances in the Prophecies campaign, with no variation in Hard mode since hes only available at lvl 20 - so why would we use a different skill format just for that single section on the Mehnlo page? (given that we're using the regular npc skill layout on the rest of the same page) :/

I found this quote on the GWWT:NPCS page, which is somewhat relevant..

There are two types of people when it comes to reading skills. It was what lead to the skill icon template being used in GuildWiki. One type recognises skills more easily by their icons. The other type recognise skills more easily by their names. I'm one of the latter. That's why the skill icon template shows both icon and name, to cater for both kinds of people. -- 07:37, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I get that you followed Konig's lead by removing the skill icon lists on the other henchmen pages, which is fine, but I feel that Mhenlo's page was fine as it was. :) 19px Chieftain Alex 13:25, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

Short reply: Yes, at first I left the skill icon templates and only removed the between brackets information (from level X). I don't mind both displays together even if it's redundant. But personally I find it totally ridiculous not to adopt the PvX format (builds that display overmouse details with name and functionality) since chat build pinging is the most common and familiar (and I disagree with Aberrant that it would draw more attention than other NPC page sections). New players will need to read the name and study the functionality, experienced gamers can identify better with just the icon and pros can recognise a skill by sound and animation while targeting others. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji (talk) 15:12, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

IP Addresses

God that banner is annoying. Anyway..

IP addresses on a local network (e.g. a small home network of a printer, a laptop and a pc) will typically be assigned addresses of the form 192.168.___.___. These do not usually show up on the outside world when contributing to the internet - the address that appears to the outside will typically be the IP of your broadband router (i.e. not beginning with 192.168...)

Every time you see one of those 192.168.___.___ addresses contributing on the wiki it is a bug - it is where the contribution takes local the IP of the anet server instead of your external address.

Summary: If we blocked the 192.168.___.___ addresses, multiple legitimate users would be unable to contribute. (this is why I've scored through your suggestions to block the 192.168. vandals on the admin noticeboard. Chieftain Alex 09:57, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

If it is a "bug", cannot we have the Abuse Filter force those users to register an account? User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji (talk) 08:37, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Discordway Rant and Userbox

I loved reading your rant about the rant and userbox. I never use scenarios manufactured by other users. I try my best to work it out for myself. My guild officer disagrees with me a lot, he says I should use "builds" and has recommended using and I just put skills where I think they will work. I like to mix things up and if it doesn't work I try again. I might not be using this userbox on pages but I do somewhat agree people need to think for themselves and not use gimmicks to the point it ruins their ability to play the game. --Wendy Black 15:43, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

User Images

Go under the prefix "File:User Yoshida Keiji <filename>.<suffix>". Also tag the images too. --Chieftain Alex 17:05, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

"'Room 2 - 16 minutes? Lol." in Edit Summary.
Don't look at timing while I'm touring with my camera for guide purposes. And as we used to agree back in time, give me some time between my edits or you will piss me while I'm trying to put up everything together, I hate the "New Message" banner while I'm editing a large page like this one. And "Hi" by the way. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji (talk) 17:12, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Well don't suck at moving images then :P (always rename the file upload name after selecting the image from the browse dialogue - it usually changes to something you don't want. And it shouldn't have file in the upload name either!). Also lol new message. --Chieftain Alex 17:16, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, it's unbelievable how bad I fail to upload images after so long contributing here. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji (talk) 17:21, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Eastern Frontier Vanq

Vanqed it with prophecies/core skill bar and 3 henchmen. Only took 1hr 50min lol. Justice 22:04, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

It's a great achievement regardless of time. I paused my Project around October, I recall halting here: User:Yoshida Keiji/Tsubagakure Oboro/Tyrian Vanquisher/Deldrimor Bowl I made three attempts and failed them all. I found this explorable area very challenging due to the Centaurs double-healers plus the warrrios and rangers hitting hard. Let me know if you make it. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji (talk) 03:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Yeah i can see where that one might be even worse since i think there is a boss mob as a monk and it still has 2 other monks in the same group so no pulling sepperate. Although with 6 its much more doable...or so i would hope. will try it tonight. Justice 03:53, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Easier once i found the right skill bar. Kill longbows (no self defense), warriors (shield stance) and then protectors last. With pitiful healing from alesia you want to spike down there martial professions first.
User Justice Gw091.jpg
funny part about the skill bar i used is that most of it hasnt changed hardly at all since 2005. Justice 09:19, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
I will give it a try, I haven't VQed with my ele for longtime. By the way your graphic looks awesome, very good quality. You also seem to be using a large screen. User Yoshida Keiji Signature.jpg Yoshida Keiji (talk) 05:18, 24 December 2012 (UTC)