Feedback talk:User/HanokOdbrook/Hacked Account Relief Ideas

Feedback thus far received from Linsey's wiki page

Haha, he thinks people on GW are capable of being nice or charitable. Also, this belongs on a suggestion page. –Jette 11:36, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, if he wants to do it, he should just do it. Set it up himself. Arenanet doesn't need to get involved in this at all. Misery 11:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

TBH I'm against All the copyright paranoia but we SHOULD do something about RMT compagnies.Lilondra 11:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

1) What "recent rash"? 2) It's already in place and it called a friendly Guild. Try that. — Poki#3 (talk) 12:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

what has been said above except for what HanokOdbrook said and also QQ more please. your idea with just promote more griefing and begging. why not have them fix the root of how ever your account got hacked (ie better passwords+ requiring frequent password changes ect) also adding in game things like a Xunlai Chest lock that required a septet password or they could go the way of blizzard and wow and add vasco authenticators. (i actuality got one of those to bad i don't play wow...[got it at pax09]) also if they do plan to follow your idea then they should at least add a guild vault (ie guild storage) wile they are at it, because its basically the same as what you are asking for. - Zesbeer 12:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

given that 99% of claims to been hacked are untrue, this seems like it would mostly be used to scam people. Backsword 12:59, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Being in a Christian guild and alliance we have had to impiment the rule that we don't endorse handouts ingame.... we prefer however to teach people how to become self motivated and get the ingame wealth on their own... this is done because as said above there are many many many people who will leech and scam from free offers like this... but hey yer a friendly guild/alliance that really wants to help out hacked users and get them back on their feet by showing them how to make ingame cash from nothing but a level 20 character, requiring only that when your back on your feet you give some time to help the newqly hacked... sounds viable... MrPaladin † talk 13:32, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

OK, where exactly am I asking for personal handouts or QQing about the situation? In fact, if something of this nature can be implemented, I will be first in line to put 100 platinum towards the "fund." I simply want to get Linsey's input on setting up something to help those players whose only recourse is to either delete characters to start over or buy more slots to create characters and re-build enough to get back to progressing through the game. That's why I would like to ask for Anet's input, as I do not want to see this type of solution abused. This was not posted to debate or comment upon the hows and whys the accounts got hacked, but to offer suggestions and feedback on a system that can offer a bit of recovery to anyone who was affected. Other games have such measures in place, I don't see why we cannot offer something similar to our dedicated players. HanokOdbrook 16:28, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

You're just asking for a system that will get abused like hell by people that want cash for free. And please do tell what other game has a fund for people that get hacked? — Poki#3 (talk) 16:53, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Which is why I am asking for feedback on possible ways to prevent abuse. I know that WoW can roll back accounts that have been hacked. From my understanding, that is not possible with GW, so suggestions on how to offer some kind of similar support is what this is all about. People have to start thinking outside of the box and start coming up with suggestions. HanokOdbrook 17:01, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Friends list and Guilds... otherwise your playing the game by yourself anyways... MrPaladin † talk 17:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Feedback:Main. de Kooning 17:04, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Of course, but what a wonderful way to get even more of the community involved and keep that friends list ever increasing, so we never have to play alone again (unless we want to). HanokOdbrook 17:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Quick Q: Is there a discussion going on anywhere to determine what all these people might have had in common? I don't see Jette QQ'ing about it so I'm going to assume it wasn't from using possibly rogue(keylog) coding in texmod... (which would potentially encompass 99% of all players with a master cartography title) --ilr 19:31, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Hanok, as everyone has already said, this is a wonderful suggestion but probably belongs on a Feedback page. However, like I said, this is a wonderful suggestion and could easily be something that a group of players do in the game rather than asking Anet to do it for us. I think this would be a great undertaking for a guild and something that would be admirable if it was pulled off. Feel free to contact me if this is something you ever try to get off the ground. I would recommend starting a guild with this purpose and you would definitely need a webpage and a way to authenticate hacking. Karate Jesus 19:34, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

And given that the latter is impossible, you might as well not do this at all, unless you're happy with the knowledge that the large part of your donations are being handed out to frauds. -Auron 19:59, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I had posted this on Linsey's page, but was told it would be better here. The whole point of this discussion is to come up with ideas, and find out what is feasible and what isn't. Part of the system, naturally, would be to have safeguards against fraudulent claims, but I thought that would be kind of obvious (and why I am asking for Anet's input). HanokOdbrook 20:03, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

If you are ingame for a long time then you most of the time have a guild aswell ask them to donate you some money there is no need for a whole community donate system... Death Sligher 20:38, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Which works for large guilds or friends lists. However, that doesn't help the little guy that gets hacked. Not everyone here is part of a huge alliance that can come to the rescue in terms of providing several thousand plat to replace what was stolen. Again, the loss of items for me is minimal when I factor in my other accounts, so I can re-equip as necessary. Unfortunately, many players do not have that option right now. HanokOdbrook 14:50, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Is there any reason

That you actually need Arenanet's involvment? What do you need them to do? Isn't it a simple matter of making like a club or something, rounding up people, getting donations, then doling it out when people get hacked? Misery 17:57, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

In this instance, it would be to confirm that only players whose accounts have been hacked and stripped would be able to make use of the system. As already pointed out, there is generosity among players, friends, and guilds where one player will let another have a particular item. My concern here, though, is to have some kind of solution that helps the player who has suffered a complete or near complete loss due to their account getting stolen. For a player with a single account that has been stolen and stripped of inventory, there is very little recourse available that will allow them to get re-equipped quickly and get back to playing the game. HanokOdbrook 19:40, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

In otherwords, create a third party "Insurance Company". After all, that's where you get the insurance for your car, and your home from in the real world. Very few providers of goods sell insurance for those same goods. -- Wyn talk 18:16, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The Geico alliance... "Save money switching to GE[ICO]" MrPaladin † talk 18:18, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

This takes the personal aspect out of charity which, imo, makes it much less rewarding both for the giver and the receiver. de Kooning 18:23, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

So don't contribute or ask for help if you get hacked. I won't do either. Misery 18:24, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Point being, there is no point for an NPC based middleman for charity. Willing people will do as Misery described, etc. with or without Arenanet mediation. de Kooning 18:39, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I think the key for arenanet interaction is to Identify those who have been hacked.... I would have no problem giving a little into an idea like this if I knew for sure it went to people who were hacked and had to go thru the whole thang with support first... instead of some player who stripped out of their armour and displayed soem pathetic title and was begging people for help... MrPaladin † talk 19:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Dump all items in alt account. QQ, I was HACKED! Click Salvation Army NPC. Free shit! Score!---74.55.165.162 21:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

And what happens when that alternate account is hacked? This isn't about scoring free stuff, but providing at the very least, a minimal support system to accounts that get hacked. Say what you want about WoW, at least they have that support. (And again, please point out where I am QQing instead of attempting to make a viable suggestion or asking for handouts). HanokOdbrook 14:46, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

This is a very novel idea, but it's just not feasible as suggested here. It's incredibly open to abuse, and would need much control, the kind of control that only Anet may provide, because they have direct access to account data. Unfortunately, Anet just can't affort that kind of time and resources to provide this service and make it fair and remotely reliable. As is, only friendly guilds may provide such relief to hacked players by donations from guild members that care about each other, as I have seen happen before. Rose Of Kali 15:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Insurance

That got me thinking... what about putting some of your own money away to cover yourself... it would require another password or something secure to get into so even if you account gets hacked at the very least you;ve given yourself a legup... its made redundant tho if this idea goes thru MrPaladin † talk 18:21, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Even something like that. No matter what measures are taken, hackers are going to find ways to steal accounts. If we have measures in place to minimize the impact when that does happen, so much the better. I was fortunate that I had more than one account, so I didn't suffer a complete loss of inventory. However, I still did lose things like the Deldrimor Talismans, Gold and Green minis and items, and zcoins - things that aren't easily or quickly replaced. What affects me more though, is the loss of time I now suffer having to re-build character armor and weapons, and re-equip my heroes so I can get back to continuing to progress through the storyline of the game. Right now, even having multi-accounts is not really a good option, as there is no way to lock up items for protection should that account be compromised. HanokOdbrook 19:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

How about someone coding a lock on the Xchest. lol that would be badass and would at the very least take some time to crack. Which would prevent a total wipe of goods.--SirBoss 21:41, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually the more I think about it the better. It would be like a cell phone lock. If someone steals your phone at the very least your out the phone, but they cant run up your bill by making phone calls. You could choose to use it or not. Probably never make it into the game but I know it would let me sleep better.--SirBoss 21:49, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Feedback from Gaile's Page

And if 50 people lost the same item, who gets it? First come, first served? That hardly seems fair, when someone is hacked during his sleeping hours, and he learns that someone else got the only (insert item name here) available during the time he was eligible for items. And how long would he be eligible to get items from this "merchant?" And how much code would have to be written -- it boggles the mind -- to track that Fred retrieved his Icy Dragon Sword, but Mary bought one to replace the one she lost and therefore isn't eligible to get one from the merchant. Or is she? And to note that Tom got 142 of the ectos he lost and has another 10 coming, where Jenny had 20 coming, but found 5, so still a has 20 coming from the "merchant."

Don't get me wrong -- I like good ideas! But I'm bound to provide some insight into the complexity of their implementation. I see a number of drawbacks to this proposal, but naturally welcome ideas on how such a concept could work, even if it ended up being only as a point of discussion and not something that we could implement. -- Gaile 23:13, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

What is with all the Fred references? Starting to take a liking to me? :P Anyway, it's easy to see that a free for all is not a good idea, but why not allow the devs to allow item creation? It seems simple... you backup your data on a server, your bank guarantees your accounts, the idea behind all that is to give recourse after a security breach... it seems naive to assume nobody will ever get compromised; why not help them when it happens? Fred K 02:18, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I guess you're just that kind of special guy, Fred. Anyway, I appreciate what you are saying Gaile, and this is one of the reasons why I want to get this dialogue going - so we can figure out how to resolve this issue for GW1, and ensure that measures are already in place to prevent the necessity of this dialogue for GW2. The fact of the matter remains, this type of issue will only worsen as the MMO genre grows, so it's time to get measures in place that will allow for recovery when it does happen.

If we will run into the problems that you mention above, then how about we institute merchants for specific items and use the voucher system that allows for recovery. The normal merchants are coded in such a way that they never run out of inventory. We then should have this for the rare items and one-time-only items (Minis, the three end game reward items, and the very rare drop items like the ID sword and such). Any account that gets hacked needs to initiate a support ticket for investigation. Once Anet determines this was a true hack, that account is issued in some manner, a means to recover those items, and a set amount of gold to enable purchase of necessary materials for armor and weapon re-equiping. Have the vouchers come with an expiration date. The fact that someone may purchase a replacement really shouldn't have a bearing in this scenario, where the merchants would have the unlimited inventory, as that person would be free to purchase said item regardless of a hack or not. HanokOdbrook 13:54, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Imo just create a way to give "packets" to someone.Basically if you are hacked anet checks what items were stolen and gives a customised version of that item (if its a weapon or armor) to you.No mods,and if its a armbrace you get a torm wep instead for example.Just a idea Lilondra 15:57, 18 November 2009 (UTC)