Talk:Charr at the Gate

Preceded by & followed by

I wrote "Charr in the Catacombs" for the "Fallowed by" Quest info, but i'm not realy sure and i can't remember if there a Previous Quest with Prince Rurik this info have to be confirm. (Odin Son of Barr 07:07, 6 April 2007 (EDT))

Well, Trouble in the Woods is required, but Charr in the Catacombs is not a follow-up, but rather a seperate quest that can be taken from Prince Rurik at the same time. --77.98.24.142 07:09, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

Ok thanks for the specification i'll mopd the article to fit this new info thanks to you.(Odin Son of Barr 07:10, 6 April 2007 (EDT))

I got rid of the preceded by thing, as I was able to take this quest and use it for xp on my mesmer when I haven't completed any quests on her. Chilli 20:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe make a note they don't drop anything? I don't get anything of them 80.56.51.129 14:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Nvm got my first item at lvl 8 80.56.51.129 20:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

resize

Why did you resize my map ? It was better before, bigger and clearer, and it didn't bother any text or anything. I think it's weak to resize it just so it can fit the infobox when it's clearly worse :(

Formatting Guide Compliance

• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Infobox used.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) No Map.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Overview exists. Send them back is not an option though.
• mtew 12:55, 3 April 2009 (UTC) Initial requirements section correct.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Objectives section exists.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Early benefits section not needed.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Rewards section exists.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Environment changes missing
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Walkthrough section exists.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Associated NPCs section exists.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Dialogue section exists.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Notes section exists.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Trivia not needed.
• mtew 23:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC) Categories exist.

Behind the Gate

http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5529/gw002p.jpg

This proves they can occasionally spawn behind the gate, so I'll update the page. Sorry, I don't have an account, so I can't upload it to Wikipedia. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.73.49.179 (talk).

Behind the gate: one solution

This happened to me once. A Charr Ash Walker spawned behind the gate and it didn't just stay behind it quietly, either. It kept throwing hexes on everyone, mainly life siphon. Neither Rurik nor the guard could do anything about it, of course. I had thought that the monk might do something, but all she did was just keep healing everyone. I had a warrior trying out ranger skills at that point, so I couldn't do anything about it with my skills. I could have mapped out, then, of course, but I took it as a challenge. And, of course, I could do something about it and did: I ran upstairs and opened the gate. A moment later, the charr was dead. --La Visiteuse 13:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Guard and Monk sometimes are distracted/stuck

It's best to stay by the Guard and the Monk as much as possible during the run to gate because sometimes they get distracted by an Aloe Husk and fall far behind, and can arrive very late in the battle. They can also get stuck if they get too close to the Actor's Stage, and, again, this can cause them to arrive very late in the battle. Both of these things have happened to me. The first time, I saw them on my radar screen go for the Aloe Husk; they then headed for the Actor's Stage and just stayed there. I thought that Rurik would stop when we got close to the Charr to wait for them, but he didn't. He rushed into battle and one of the Charr rushed me. The upshot is that it was just Rurik and my character against the charr, with the monk and the guard finally showing up after everyone was dead. The second time it happened they just arrived late. I now keep with them on the run and stop if they go for an Aloe Husk or get stuck. If you have a high-level character, say level 9 farming XP to go to level 10, this little problem won't be a concern. If your character's level is low, though, it's worth staying with the guard and the monk. --La Visiteuse 13:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Having to battle all the charr yourself

Once when I decided to go around the tree to get at a Charr Stalker who was positioned near there, I ended up battling all the charr without any help from the others. My character was tough, and I'm a good player, so I won. I wondered about this, so I tested it again, and, while it's not always reliable - probably something to do with timing - it is a danger. If your character is tough and you play well, it isn't a problem. If your character's level is low, though, don't do this if you want to live. There's never a problem if you follow Rurik into battle (unles, of course, the guard and the monk have been distracted or are lost as I mention above), so that's the best course of action. --La Visiteuse 13:44, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

well, theres absolutely no point to fighting yourself. seriously. 132.205.14.118 15:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

No need to abandon the quest

If you go alone to do this quest (or with the fire imp), you can repeat it without abandon it. You only have to go from other post (not Ascalon), you can skip Rurik and after killing the charrs you only need to go to the western portal and rezone. Fighting alone maybe it's harder (it depends on your level), but I think this way is faster than going to Ascalon, abandoning the quest, taking it again and so on.

How do you get this quest?

^ This. I can't seem to get it? Thepoisonx 14:26, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
You need to talk to Prince Rurik in Ascalon City to get the Quest from him. RandwulfX 07:22, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Wanting to Redo

I did this quest with Rurik already and didn't realize that I could repeat it until after I accepted the Quest Reward.
Is there a way, short of making a new character, to get that Quest back? RandwulfX 07:20, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

No, unfortunately not. It's not really repeatable; it's just a quest that is useful to abandon/retake. (The shortcut is to zone out before the last charr is killed, so the quest doesn't update.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the info Tennessee. Now I'll have to farm my way to 10 some other way. RandwulfX 16:29, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

If it helps, I did the same thing with my perma (and was very annoyed with myself). I found the easiest thing was tackling the two Melandru Stalkers (L5 each) in Regent Valley (zone, jog, aggro, kill, rezone). Another route is hitting the high level foes in Lakeside: the Rogue Bull (if you haven't completed the mesmer test), the River Skale Drake, and the River Skale Brood (although I usually found it faster to skip that one). Along the way, you should be able to collect items for Nicholas Sandford (notably, there's a Red Iris Flower near the bull and the drake...and sometimes near the brood, too).

Good luck. (PS most ppls call me TEF — Tennessee is that stately adjective modifying the nickname, Ernie Ford.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:03, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

I found out you can wait until the quest reward dialog pops up then Map back to Ascalon, abandon the quest then retake. I don't know if it's worth it though, as it only speeds up the leveling a little. RandwulfX 08:59, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

I timed myself as I abandoned the quest, walked up to where Rurik was standing, took the quest again, zoned out and back into Ascalon City (faster than walking back down the stairs). I found the extra time it took to do all this was not worth the extra experience from killing the last Charr. Therefore I always zoned back to Ascalon City before the last Charr died in order to not have to abandon & retake the quest. YMMV. Alccode 23:38, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Rogue Bull not worth it

In the main page it states, Also take time to kill the nearby Rogue Bull (assuming you have not completed A Mesmer's Burden); this increases the experience gained by at least 20% and extends a run by as little as 15%. I am not sure where these numbers came from, but here are some I've recently recorded for a level 5 Necromancer performing this quest. Completing the quest with the bull takes about 2min:10s = 130s. Without the bull it's about 40 seconds less (give or take) -- yes, I found it takes that long to walk all the way down to the pond, finish off the bull, walk all the way back to Rurik, and wait for him to get going again. And this is with the Igneous Summoning Stone, so the Fire Imp helps finish off the bull faster. So with the bull, you get about 400exp / 130s = 3.07 exp/second. Without the bull, it becomes 300exp / 90s = 3.3exp/second. It's not much, but it's non-negligible, and so adds up over dozens of runs.

I thus submit that it's not worth going for the Raging Bull; leave him be and just charge for the Charr. Even if someone wants to quibble with the numbers, I still find it hard to believe the main page's claim of the bull only extending the run by 15%. Please consider rewriting it to reflect that it takes longer to incorporate the bull, and so don't recommend it outright. Or prove me wrong, of course! Alccode 23:52, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the article loses anything by leaving out the bull detour, but neither do I think it's that harmful to leave in a (rewritten) suggestion.

You should feel comfortable rewriting the text yourself (you've justified your proposed change with both testing and a cogent argument). However, my memory of comparative lengths differs...probably b/c I think I took different steps than you: I plinged the bull w/flatbow, popped the imp, and then left them to bring Rurik to the Charr — that took closer to 10s rather than 40s. Depending on the results of either battle, I'd join one fight or the other. My memory is that the imp didn't matter much against the charr, but could solo the bull. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to do further testing to compare methods.

Another factor is how long it takes to rezone. For me, the main advantage of including the bull in the route is that I try to avoid rezoning whenever possible: I prefer taking some extra time to battle one more group so that I'm constantly active, rather than spending a significant fraction of my time waiting for the game to load. Again. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:45, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, TEF! Wow, that certainly sounds more elaborate than what I'm doing. I have a character I'm building up for the LDoA title at the moment, so I tried your technique, but found it difficult to pull off. The main issue is that the imp pretty much nearly finishes the bull off by the time I rejoin Rurik & co. at the road leading to the gate, forcing me to backtrack anyway to the imp to be close enough to reap the exp. This adds to the time of the run significantly. Another difference with my situation is that zoning is nearly instantaneous - I'm not sure if this is due to a fast internet connection, computer, or both, but it never was a real cost for me, so I use it to my advantage.

In any case, I didn't intend on removing mention of the bull altogether, just to make the wording less strong since the page as-is outright says it should be done, using numbers that I find somewhat questionable. But as we've seen, there are more factors involved. Actually, I just noticed that bull was removed outright... I'm going to try to re-add it in a reworded fashion, and see what people think about it. 76.10.159.36 18:57, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm highlighting a play style distinction, whereas your testing is entirely about efficiency. Style is very subjective while efficiency is mostly objective, which is why we usually include notes about the latter but not the former.

To be clear, it's not that rezoning takes that long (although I have guildies who always seem to zone 5-10s later); I just prefer playing to watching load screens. I also choose the less-efficient 5-Iris farm at 5 rezones/Nick-request vs the quicker 1-Iris farm that requires 25.

Regarding the imp killing the bull too quickly: what level are you? Maybe that works at L5 but not at L7. (I accidentally accepted the quest reward sometime around L7, so I had to find other sources of XP.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't it take much longer to incorporate the Rogue Bull into the run? I may be wrong, but the bull doesn't spawn if I don't abandon the quest (in town). And I feel that time is wasted abandoning quests and walking back to the quest giver to take the quest again, that's why I zone back to town when Rurik kills 3 charr instead of all 4.
Although if I were to "switch styles" to killing all 4 charr and abandoning and walking up the stairs in town to take the quest from Rurik again, then I might as well do the same for Althea too.
Do the # of runs stats in the table include time spent abandoning quests and re-taking the quests from the quest giver?

Farming statistics

Current level →	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	Notes
XP to reach next level	2600	3200	3800	4400	5000	5600	6200	6800	7400
Per Charr†	149.7	133.7	117.1	97.1	77.7	61.7	45.7	29.7	13.7	85.7% chance of Level 5 and 14.3% of level 4.
Bull	152	136	120	100	80	64	48	32	16	The bull is always L5.
# of runs:‡ kill 3	6	8	11	16	22	31	46	77	180	Kill three charr and map to Ascalon
# of runs:‡ kill 4	5	6	9	12	17	23	34	58	135	Kill all four charr.
# of runs:‡ kill 3 & bull	5	6	9	12	16	23	34	57	130	Kill three and then the bull
# of runs:‡ kill 4 & bull	4	5	7	10	13	19	27	46	105	Kill all charr and the bull.

^† Assumes each type of Charr has an equal opportunity to spawn, i.e. there is one chance in seven that any given Charr is a level 4 Martyr.

^‡ The number of runs is rounded up to the next whole number.

There, it says "Assumes each type of Charr has an equal opportunity to spawn, i.e. there is one chance in seven that any given Charr is a level 4 Martyr.". Now when I look at the list of foes, I see 6 different types of char. Is there a 2 out of 7 chance for one of the 5 level 5 chars? Or should the table be recalculated? I certainly want to make sure that I haven't missed anything before redoing the whole thing. Steve1 (talk) 08:30, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

It'd be nice to compare this run with ice elemental run. My experience with Charr at the gate is that the run is not worth it : lose a lot of time going to the gate, a lot of time going back to Rurik in Ascalon City and a lot of time to get out of Ascalon City from Rurik. If you make a mistake and take the reward (happens to me everytime), you can't farm the quest again. Only 4 lvl4-5 charrs... Ice elementals run is faster imo. Especially with the imp that deal AoE fire damage. That being said, ice elementals are lvl3 so you won't get xp at lvl9. Farming the oakhearts at the beginning of the Northlands (they also are vulnerable to fire damage) should be faster than charr at the gate, but you'll need another player/account to rezone/pull lever. If playing with elementalist or mesmer, some charr groups can be farmed from lvl7-9 if using walls. Much harder to kill, but yield much more xp. Charr bosses can be pulled separately and dealt with at lvl8-9 with the Fire Imp for massive xp reward, though warriors (stupid melee class) should go /R with bow.--Ruine Eternelle 10:49, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I agree with you. Repeating this quest is also extremely boring. Farming ice elementals or bears/bandits is probably as fast if not faster and much more enjoyable. You can also do it quicker and quicker with experience and levels. Contrary to the quest that involves running a lot. Farming charrs in the northlands is definitly the fastest but requires some skills, especially if you can't die. A level 6 mesmer can clear almost the whole zone without dying and without fire imp. It is definitly more difficult for other professions.