Talk:Duncan the Black
Changes to Duncan the Black August 2012
I have noticed, sfter several hundred attempts to kill off Duncan, that certain features of the dungeon have changed. There seem to be a lot more Restless Dead than I recall before, and all the Stone Summit have Healers now. Previously the last three SS mobs did not possess them. Also, I note that one or two people have stated on this forum that Duncan does not heal. This is not true, he most certainly does! This has compunded the problem that I as a mesmer have in trying to kill him off. I can either get my HH tooled up to deal with the mobs, and then find I cannot deal with Duncan, or I equip myself and others with life draining spells which prove useless against the SS and Restless Dead. On some occasions I don't even make it to the final dungeon. I'm no noob, and have completed all the GW expansions, with a number of HM achievements to my credit, but this proves time and again to be by far the most difficult dungeon yet.
- I managed to complete Duncan with hero's and hench mm and HM on second attempt each back when you could only have 3 heroes, it's far from difficult if you look into builds foes have and use some tactics. Now I personally dont have any issues completing with 7 hero's. Restless dead are pop ups you might just be unlucky enough to spawn more lately, as for more healers, I haven't noticed any significant difference in the enemies parties.Spark-TBa 17:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
- If you aren't swapping away the spirits surrounding him, Recuperation is most likely what is healing him.--126.96.36.199 01:51, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok I went back down there with Xandra kitted out with a bow, and Signet of spirits, ec, 2 hero monks and two eles for nuking. One paragon for buffs, and the Master of Whispers for minions and a bit of life steal. I equipped myself with Swap, and Chaos Storm to push things along a bit when we got to Duncan. I have to tell you, Duncan does not just stay in one place and let you shoot him. I think we got him to about 45% health when he started moving up and blitzing us. I was sucking energy from him using CS, ether feast and energy tap, but he just used spirit boon strike and flattened me. Even after I moved all the spirits away, he still regenerated fast enough for me to have to start all over again, this time with a big DP across the team. I am getting increasingly frustrated, particularly when people here just seem to breeze through it. Mantra to repeat-it's only a game.
- Did you move them outside of spirit range? He also has something like 5 innate regen, as most dungeon bosses do. I'm not sure why you gave Xandra a bow. Ditch one of the monks and bring a soul twist protector, flagged outside of his aggro. Chaos Storm is going to make him run around and aggro everyone. What I usually do is flag the henchies/last 4 heroes into the corner, and mostly degen him to death, with only me or one or two heroes in his aggro, all spread far enough apart that spirit rift can only hit one at a time, which keeps shelter up. As a mesmer you can slow his spell casting and then power block him, or just degen. It will take several minutes, but it's very safe. Manifold 21:50, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
I gave Xandra a bow as per the tactics laid out in one of the above paragraphs. I used Chaos Storm for the same reason. I find that if I equip myself with "Duncan-specific" skills, I am of no use to the rest of the team and we all die horribly quite early on. It is a very difficult balance, and one which i have difficulty in achieving. It may be simply that I do not have the right mix of skills. As a Domination Mesmer, there are no degen spells available. On the occasions when I have changed to Illusion, I lack the AOE effects that I have become reliant on over the course of the 4 games. Even going in with Gwen or Norgu set up as Illusionists, I still don't make it to Duncan. I'm not whingeing, I'm just interested to know what else I could do.
- I'd recommend taking the advice of Manifold. Personally, I never go anywhere without a Soul Twisting Shelter Rit, and an SoS Rit. Too long since last I battled Duncan, so not sure what I used, maybe Spoil Victor, since it doesn't deal dmg and therefor shouldn't "backfire", but I'm certain the ST Shelter is the optimal option to go with for this dungeon. Good luck Gaudy Gourd God 10:24, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
- Just gave Duncan a try. Had to go back in a few times as various set ups weren't working. My main is a Warrior but I ended up running her as a spirit spammer with Spiritleech Aura and Nightmare Weapon added. I gave Razah a mix of other attack spirits that I wasn't using and added Spiritleech Aura and Nightmare Weapon as well. I gave Xandra protection spirits and added Nightmare Weapon. When we got to Duncan I spirit swapped the spirits on the right with a hero (my paragon) and flagged my group out of range. I switched Razah's, Xandra's, and my weapon to a longbow and started hitting him from a distance while activating Nightmare Weapon with each of them. My main and Razah summoned our spirits and used Spiritleech Aura as well. Took about 5 mins to whittle him down. This was on NM. Completely safe as our weapons weren't doing normal damage, just the life steal from NW, probably would have been safe with our normal weapons, but didn't want to chance it. My other Heroes were a standard Monk with a focus on party heals; a Paragon with party heals, Can't Touch This, and Swap; Mesmer with Chaos Storm and interrupts; an Elementalist with Searing Flames; and a basic Minion Master. Had no problems at all getting to Duncan without a single death. Not sure how I'll go with the same build in HM, but I'm about to give it a shot. 188.8.131.52 12:16, 12 October 2012 (UTC)
Tactics and a Question
I've now defeated Duncan 10 times in HM (once for each profession) and multiple times in NM, tinkering with my team builds from time to time. For those having trouble (and HM remains torture for me, but got easier after each tinker), here are some suggestions for an all hero team: 1) Be prepared to tank regardless of profession (i.e. "I Am Unstoppable!"), figure out the pull limit for each Stone Summit mob (the first one gives me the most trouble), and let your heroes do most of the damage; 2) Frozen Soil and Swap are necessities, the former to stop the Summit from rezing and the latter to move the spirits around Duncan; 3) My team is Livia with Spoil Victor and various degen, life steal, and well skills (plus Swap); Master of Whispers with Lingering Curse (to counter the Stone Summit healers) and various degen, wells, and Frozen Soil; Norgu with Shared Burden and various anti-mele, interrupts, and enchantment removals; Gwen with Hex Eater Vortex, Spiritual Pain (important for both the enemy minions and spirits), and various utility skills (additional enchantment/hex removal, interrupts, etc.); Stonehealer with Blessed Light (for a backup utility heal) and various scourges, smiting, Ward of Stability, and a hard rez; Dunkoro Word of Healing, other heals, "Stand Your Ground!", "Never Surrender!", "Can't Touch This!" (to counter the groups of touch necs), and a hard rez; and Razah with Soul Twisting, and various protective spirits, resto heals, and an appropriate bundle. Both mesmer heroes bring Mantra of Resolve to counter interrupts. 4) Given that the Summit are strong against conditions and have anti-enchantment skills, I only use hexes, damage, healing, resto, shouts and interrupts. 5) Make sure you clear out all areas of pop-up and roaming necs before taking on any Summit; 6) Your team can take out the ranger mob in relative safety by hiding in the corner at the bottom of the stairs, as they can't hit you (but any ele, etc. still can so take them out early). 7) When setting up your heroes, put the hero that has Swap in the first slot (for better micro management) and your other two that will take on Duncan in slots 2 & 3, in may case (in order) this is Liva, Master of Whispers, and Norgu. 8) After clearing out the spirits, flag your entire team so that they can support the 3 attackers, disable any unnecessary and damage skills (to save energy and mitigate against triggering Duncan's defenses), unflag the 3 attackers, setup the protective spirits/etc., start against Duncan, and spread out your 3 attackers to mitigate against his AoE damage (moving your support group as needed if they draw fire). 9) In my experience, Duncan takes a long time to kill in NM, but he goes down real quick in HM. Also, for some reason, during the Duncan fight Dunkoro does not use "Stand Your Ground!" nor does Razah setup any spirits, so I have to micro these skills. (Perhaps someone knows why these skills aren't used automatically by these heroes.) Duncan does use Spirit Burn; however, Razah has always been far enough away not to cause any burning. Lord Flynt 05:23, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
- I used to roll 7HPS with Shared Burden to lengthen his casts, Dissonance to chain rupt him + Spiritleech Aura on each of the rit heroes to bypass Duncan's Defense. You can bring Swap on your bar or on a hero. You don't really need any specific skills to deal with the summit groups, just ball them up + nuke with splinter weapon (I certainly have never used Frozen Soil there). Can't Touch This! is pretty good to bring. -Chieftain Alex 08:33, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
I don't use Frozen Soil or Swap when I hero Duncan in hard mode. I find that Frozen Soil increases the liklihood that my party will wipe. Instead I focus on taking out the Stone Summit Dominators quickly and watching for them to rez again and killing them again. They have 2 rez spells and a high Fast Casting attribute so they are the main rezzers. Other SS have signets which can only be used once. I also watch the Warders who have Sandstorm and Churning Earth and will quickly wipe flagged heros so I try to take them out quickly.
I don't like to use Swap and I find it a long, boring process that is not really necessary. Rather, I have a lot of AoE damage in my team, mostly from the fire Elementalist hero who has Savannah Heat and several other AoE fire spells. At least one mesmer hero has Spiritual Pain which will do massive damage to nearby spirits. I come in along the fire wall from the right side, eliminating any Restless Dead that pop up, then once they are all gone I call Duncan as a target and we finish him. No Swap necessary :) I have a high damage, high protection, high healing team with excellent energy management. This is critical; there can be *no* weaknesses in your team and all skills are important. I don't have a tank or any tanking skills and I pull groups with a flatbow. Minions serve as adequate tanks for me but it's important to make sure they have caught up with the party before engaging the next group.
I also agree that it is very important to study the builds the various foe use and to watch their tactics. Expect to fail on initial attempts until you learn how they move and act. There are also several videos on YouTube showing how to do this dungeon which may be worth watching. DahliaT (talk) 22:09, 24 November 2014 (UTC)