Talk:Key

whoa. That's 100% ripped.--Life Infusion 20:22, 11 February 2007 (PST)

Why not revert to BeXoR's revision? Savio 21:38, 11 February 2007 (PST)

I am not sure if you have to purge the copyright material from the history. An admin or someone more knowledgeable will fix it sooner or later. - BeXoR 21:51, 11 February 2007 (PST)

Done, sorry I didn't get to this quicker. --Rainith 02:28, 24 February 2007 (EST)

Phantom Key

Can we clear this up? As far as I've always known (currently can't access the game to verify though) Phantom keys work when used in The Underworld via the statue of Grenth, and the Tomb of the Primeval Kings by walking into through the portal from the outpost. Now I know that technically that mission is the four areas "The Underworld, Scarred Earth, The Courtyard, and The Hall of Heroes", but it seems very clear and obvious to me that if you say the key works in "ToPK", that's what it's for. Unless this key no longer works there since I was last there. :) Biscuits 22:10, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm I just discovered that the article used to point it to Ruins of the Tomb of the Primeval Kings, which solves the problem of describing the area, assuming the key does work there. Biscuits 22:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

That's an old GuildWiki article copied here. Should probably go. Backsword 00:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Question

What do you want to do with the Crystal Desert and The Desolation keys? Backsword 00:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

You didn't answer the point of my original post, which was why you keep removing the link to Tombs from the Phantom key. I'm going to put it back again if there is no explanation other than personal preference, since as far as I know that key is used there. Biscuits 09:18, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Haven't gotten to level two yet to try, but yes, the Phantom Keys are sold in the oupost for the tomb ruins, the one adjacent to glint's lair's outpost. Keys aren't sold where they aren't used.

(Our documentation of the runied tombs, last time I read it anyway, is rather not very good and pretty confusing, btw.)

And, why would anyone even want to do anything with Elonian Keys and Ancient Elonian Keys. --Star Weaver 16:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Phantom Keys are indeed used in all of the 4 levels of Tombs, so I'm putting the link in ~~Brodly 08:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot or it didn't happen. Backsword 07:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

It has always been the case that these keys have worked in TopK - please don't remove the info again. Biscuits 12:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

That's what's known as "text" not a "screenshot". Backsword 12:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Fine. What keys ARE used there, then, if not the ones sold in the outpost? I'd really like to know, since apparently You Know All. --Xylia 12:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Logical fallacies will get you nowhere. Backsword 12:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

A question is not a logical fallacy. I asked you what was used there if not the ones that were in the outpost. If you do not have an answer, then you hardly are in a position to make an informed edit. --Xylia 12:50, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

The philosophical establishment disagrees with you. So does wikipedia. You'll also want to consider this. Backsword 13:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You didn't answer it either, nor mine. Backsword 07:08, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't see a need to do anything with the Elonian and Ancient Elonian keys. Biscuits 12:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Then I can't see what standard you are using here. Neither lore nor technical leaves little room for consistency. Backsword 12:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

It's purely technical. Elonian keys are bought from merchants in Prophecies are are used to open chests in the Crystal Desert; Ancient Elonian Keys are bought from merchants in Nightfall and are used to open chests in The Desolation. This is what the article says. Biscuits 12:30, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Which is inconsistent. If that is considered good, then we should do the same in this case. Backsword 12:32, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're saying. I agree that it's a little inconsistent that Elonian keys are used in Tyria, but that's a result of Prophecies being released years before Nightfall was on the cards. That's how it is though, and the point of the article is to document how it is in the game. Biscuits 13:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Let me try another question. Given the existance of Stoneroot Keys, what region shoul be given for Kurzick keys? Backsword 15:52, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...i don't exactly get what you mean. I don't think Anet thought much when creating the Key's names. Every region gets its own key with a somewhat suiting name to it, outposts of these areas which have a path to an elite area get an extra key that can be used there and again have a name according to the elite area. Phantom Keys slightly breaks ranks because they are used both in the UW2 and in the UW, though when taking a look at the area's names you might see why they are shared for both locations. —ZerphaThe Improver 16:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to convince Backsword that the key page is correct, as it correctly documents how the keys work in the game, and that the article doesn't need changing. Biscuits 16:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Stoneroot keys are for use in Urgoz's Warren only, Kurzick Keys are for use in the Echovald Forest region. Seems sensible to me. Biscuits 16:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Can you use Kurzick keys in the warren? What region is the warren in? Backsword 16:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You can't. Urgoz's Warren in in the Echovald Forest. But then you can buy stuff from enemy merchants in the Factions elite missions too, they're an anomaly. Biscuits 16:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

So which region should we list for Kurzick keys then? Backsword 16:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Ah, now i know what you mean. Well, as i said, Anet likely didn't take liberties with the key's names. But we could expand that line then. Change "Region used - Echovald Forest" to "Echovald Forest (except Urgoz's Warren)" —ZerphaThe Improver 16:21, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

So which keys can you use in HzH? Backsword 16:33, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

You can't use any keys in House zu Heltzer, since it's a town, not an explorable area. Biscuits 16:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

So it's not located in the Echovald Forest region then? Backsword 12:07, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

That would work. I think we need to work out what the issue is we're discussing here is, since this is not really related to the original point about Phantom keys. Adding a note about Urgoz/Deep makes sense though. Biscuits 16:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) What do Urgoz's Warren and Echovald Forest have to do with Phantom keys? --JonTheMon 16:26, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Nothing really. I don't really see where these questions are leading, unless Backsword is just curious how the keys work. Biscuits 16:38, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Edit: never mind, I just saw the replies to Xylia above, I think he's just trying to prove people wrong, rather than curiosity/accurate contributions. Biscuits 16:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

If the issue is about whether Phantom Keys are used in Tomb of the Primeval Kings, then the answer is yes. --Zora 17:12, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I don't really understand the problem here, anyone who has ever been in Tombs knows that the chests there are opened with Phantom keys. So just what exactly is your issue with the way the article is Backsword? -- Wyn 12:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Listing it generically as The Mists is incorrect as that includes Fissure of Woe. -- Wyn 09:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

We discussed that above. As there was no support before, can you provide a solution that is better then? Also, if you truly belive that, when are you changing the other fields? Backsword 08:36, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

What do you believe needs to be solved? The article as it stands is both correct and clear: Phantom Keys can be used in The Underworld as well as in the Tomb Ruins. - Tanetris 08:45, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, that works for me. Don't know qabout others. As one thing I've always thought is that AernaNet has this intention that a certain key and chest pair 'represents' a region. Can't cite a source for that however. Perhaps we can split the column, into a General Region and Specific Location set? Backsword 09:57, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Listing Every Area

I don't like this new format. While explicitly correct, it seems overly verbose and omits any information about keys in missions also. I would like to see it reworked to

Ascalonian	Ascalon (explorable areas and missions)
Kurzick	Echovald Forest (explorable areas and non-elite missions)

--JonTheMon 16:27, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

I like the format, though one question. Does all keys work in missions and explorables in that region, except for the elite mission regions? If so, I think we could omit it and just list elite missions as an exception. About the Phantom keys, I think the problem was the header saying "Region", and not listing region. Could the header be "Region or location"? - anja 19:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

As far as I know, all keys work in both missions and explorable areas for that region (except of course the elite missions). And the current header is "Region or location used" so we could deal with Phantom Keys properly without needing to change that. --JonTheMon 19:11, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Since the concern was that there was exceptions, how about doing as mentioned above and spliting the region and locations into two columns? Listing both if often the recomended compromise, but you might find that to verbose too? Backsword 19:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

My issue is that listing all the locations is too verbose. Splitting it into "Region" and "Locations" wouldn't solve that. --JonTheMon 19:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, here's another idea: how about adding an Exceptions column? That would still be more verbose, but much shorter than a full listing (I belive) and hopefully also address the concern so many voiced. Backsword 19:52, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

That could work! - anja 19:53, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

How about doing it like the Echovald Forest example above? There, it lists the exceptions (or rather, lists everything but the exceptions). --JonTheMon 19:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I went ahead and made a copy of Keys here. The Prophecies section is complete. The other areas are just linked wrong. --JonTheMon 12:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

If you think listing (explorable areas and missions) everywhere is needed.. I don't think so. I think it's ok to just list exceptions. But I still think it looks better than what we have now, so that shouldn't stop changing it. - anja 13:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

So go back to this version just have "except Urgoz's Warren" after Echovald Forest? --JonTheMon 13:51, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Honestly, yes, that's what I want. But apparently there was something wrong with that, or we wouldn't be here. :P - anja 14:18, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) OK, I've implemented a version of this. Let's see what people think. (prob missed some exceptions) Backsword 02:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, except you've put Phantom Key in The Mists again, whereas it is only used in The Underworld and Tombs. :p Biscuits 09:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Also, maybe we could simplify the Margonite Key exceptions to simply "Domain of Anguish"? Biscuits 10:14, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

2 small thoughts. 1) Why are certain things italicized? 2) I think it would be more helpful to put the note about keys being usable in missions and explorable areas but not outposts above the key list. --JonTheMon 12:45, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

The italics refer to individual explorable areas, rather than entire regions. I made the change I suggested above about DoA, and corrected the Phantom Key entry. Biscuits 10:16, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Forbidden Key

Forbidden Key drops in Unwaking waters! Strange but true!

Ritualist's construct in Morostav Trail will also drop it. I guess its because of the monster type and not necessarily the location. 193.215.199.34 12:19, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

As does the Assassin's Construct in Silent Surf. Odds are all of Shiro's constructs can drop them regardless of location. Kruhljak (talk) 08:35, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Steel Key

I was doing Ice Caves of Sorrow and a Summit Beastmaster drop a Steel Key. Nice item but cannot use in Southern Shiverpeaks. Yoshida Keiji 09:48, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

It's because the Beastmasters are Level 13 (in NM), I guess. They will drop Northern Shiverpeak stuff like Steel Key. 193.215.199.34 12:32, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Ancient Elonian Key

While in Nightfallen Jahai I had a Graven Monolith drop an Ancient Elonian Key, which is the key used for chests in the Desolation and not the Realm of Torment. With the topics just above, there appears be a pattern indicating that keys are assigned to specific affiliations and level ranges instead of being based on the region you're in. Sounds Risky | 08:23, 17 February 2012 (UTC)