Talk:List of Prophecies skill trainers

WHAT!!! Are you realy serious? Where eles am I going to find a one stop location of all the spells I need to find. I know, even over time, that my brain can't handle the retention of spells in every single place there is, and who's got them, in the game. DELETE, you have got to be joking me!!—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.0.106.221 (talk • contribs) 06:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC).

Is there a reason Dakk was left off of this list?--Erom 19:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

He teaches all skills (Core + Prophecies), so his list would be very long and not very informative. - anja 20:31, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I can see that. But perhaps, in lieu of a complete list, a mention that he exists? Seems strange to direct people all over the continent if they're at or near the end of the campaign and can get what they need at the "one stop shop". Thoughts? --Erom 20:49, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Better? ;) poke | talk 20:56, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Yup. Seems more... complete? this way.--Erom 21:43, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Hmm

"Firstwatch Sergio in Lion's ArchDroknar's Forge". New city? Earthquake smooshing the two places together? Obviously Firstwatch Sergio is in Lion's Arch, but I go to edit the page to correct it, and I think the error is in the included dpl file. Maybe. I have no idea how to access that file to correct it, though.

Also, a semi-related question (the reason I came to this page in the first place). Some of the trainers listed have Signets of Capture in their skills provided. Trainers that I know offer signets (Bartok in Droknar's Forge, for instance) does not. Sorim in Quarrel Falls has a signet listed for each profession -- which seems like an awkward arrangement to me. Wouldn't it be easier to just list the signet next to their name, rather than include it in every profession when it isn't really a profession-specific skill? I'm thinking of something like:

Sorim in Quarrel Falls (offers Signet of Capture)

Or is this all pulled in from the individual trainer lists? Whatever it is, the wiki voodoo eludes me.

--Nkuvu 03:09, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, everything here is gained from the Skill trainer list template used on each NPC page. It is simply so that we don't have 200+ parameters in the template for each skill, so basically it is just copied.

I fixed Firstwatch Sergio by simply using the location parameter of the template, which exists exactly for that problem. The list tries to get the location from the locations given on the NPC page; when there is more than one location given that doesn't work and all locations are connected to one word, so you just enter the location in which the NPC acts as a skill trainer to the template and everything is fine.

I agree that the Signet of Capture looks a bit stupid in every cell, maybe it would be better to include a note, that the trainer does not offer Signets of Capture, instead. poke | talk 11:08, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation on how the templates work. It almost makes sense now. I still think there's some inscrutable wiki voodoo going on, but that's probably just unfamiliarity with how this all ties together.

I was originally thinking that skill trainers offering a signet of capture should be listed, but now that I think about it a bit more, the number of skill trainers that don't offer a signet is going to be less than the number of those who do.

I also wonder whether Magi Malaquire should be listed as a skill trainer or not. He does offer a few skills, including the signet of capture (once the quest is complete) but that may just be too confusing. --Nkuvu 00:36, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yakk's Bend

Captain Osric in Yak's Bend, does not have Mark of Rodgort** (Ele skill), I checked this list out, and was a lil excited to see that 'i could' pick it up in Yakk's bend, I cannot from this skill trainer :( Please update, and thanks for this list, its super helpful!--- Frat 01:48, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately, people don't realize that if they already have skills unlocked on their accounts, they can get them from trainers earlier than if they don't, so they are continuously changing the lists. -- Wyn 02:16, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

O well that's lame :P its all good, I was 1 port away from Ember Light camp so I just unlocked it there ^.^ --- Frat 10:08, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Alphabetical order vs. Sequence of reaching them?

I was wondering why they're listed in alphabetical order, when it would be much more helpful to have them listed in order of how you'd reach them if you were playing a Prophecies character through the story? Or, perhaps, I just don't know where to find a list of them in sequential order. Raethiusliore 08:15, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I agree. It should be changed. - Kiega123456789ooo (talk) 11:34, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Magi Malaquire

Shouldn't he be mentioned here same as Dakk is? 67.248.86.3 14:16, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

His page states that he offers all previously unlocked skills, which is very different to what Dakk does. If that's the case he therefore can't offer a service beyond what Firstwatch Sergio (who's also in LA) or any other Prophecies skill trainer does. Loggy (talk) 14:36, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Bartoch

This page is missing information on Bartoch (Droknar's Forge) and his offered skills. I don't know how to add the missing information myself. Only looking at the page to see where skills are first available for an iron man attempt.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.216.80.149 (talk • contribs) 14:33, 31 August 2021‎ (UTC).

I agree, since it already lists 16 out of 20 Prophecies skill trainers. Perhaps a Category error. TikkaLeFem (talk) 22:42, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for the hint. Steve1 (talk) 18:41, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Steve1. TikkaLeFem (talk) 18:57, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

Edits by Kiega123456789ooo‎

... raised a few questions for me:

1) Do we want to change those lists like Kiega did? ATM the other 3 lists are neither sorted alphabetically, nor by region nor alphabetically by region nor any other system I can discern. So I actually think it makes sense to sort it by region. And I prefer consistency ...

2) Kiega hardcoded the lists for Bartoch and Halbrik since their skilltrainer/skills pages don't exist. The other skillspages were created in 2010 - and never touched again afterwards. Improvements were done to the skilltrainer pages directly. So do we get rid of the skills pages or do we update them and tie them into the skilltrainer pages? ATM there are discrepancies between he lists. If I see things correctly, those skill pages do NOT exist for Factions and Nightfall. So I'd vote to get rid of them for Propheices. Could we point to the skill list of each skill trainer instead of each skilltrainer/Skills list instead?

Thoughts? Steve1 (talk) 13:23, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Since this is discussing future-proofing, for now I will hardcode the NPCs that are outdated so that the page is actually correct for further discussion. (When I initially did the edit, I couldn't find the NPCskillpages themselves and assumed they had automatic upkeep to the current direct pages (I checked only a few; faulty proofing).)

For order, I prefer sequential order following the Primary Mission as that benefits the majority players who would use the list (new players, challenge players), but it does cause issues when including Region headings for cases like Fisherman's Haven in Kryta and (Factions) Zin Ku Corridor in Kaineng City, hence their minor removal entirely.

I agree with getting rid of the NPCskillpage lists.

My preferred priority is: efficient reading order >> the skill lists being visible (equal) future-proofed.

I am trying to learn how to allow the lists to populate here while also updating itself whenever the source pages are updated, in order to retain being a one-stop-shop. Or someone else set it up. If it can't be done, I'd prefer hardcoding the other campaigns to replace the dpl categorical automation rather than only having links. Kiega123456789ooo (talk) 21:00, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Hardcoding the skills here when they already exist on both the skilltrainer's page AND the skilltrainer/Skills page conceptually is a bad idea imo. We'd theoretically have to take care of three lists which should be identical. In that case it's better imo to brush up the skilltrainer/Skills page (as I just did) and use this.

For the wiki-wizards: Is it possible (as before) to use the skills listed under the "skilltrainer#Skills offered" section of each trainer on this page (like it was until three days ago and still is on the Factions and Nightfall page) and still sort it by area like it is now? That would be ideal and would make the least work and we could delete the trainer/Skills pages for good. Steve1 (talk) 20:36, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

I'm hardly a wiki wizard but I did a bit of digging into this #dpl syntax: It's possible to sort the output by a sort key with a simple | ordermethod = sortkey. (The other order methods available seem useless for our purpose.) A sort key is what the wiki already uses to sort pages in the category overviews. None of the Factions skill trainers have an explicit sort key set, so Category:Factions_skill_trainers defaults to sorting them alphabetically by name. The list does have a sort key of "+" set, and is sorted on top because of it. We could assign each skill trader a sort key that's already in the correct order: the Shing Jea one would be [[Category:Factions_skill_traders|1]], the Ran Musu Gardens one #2, the Seitung Harbor one #3, etc. Then we could order the results on these list pages correctly. However, the category page would also sort them into those numbers with a heading for each number, and that'd be weird. Also, these skill traders are currently added into their categories through the infobox template. I'm not familiar with it but I doubt we can tell it to use a specific sort key. We could try adding the pages to the category a second time. I don't know what effects that would have but it might work. We could also try a second, hidden category, something like Category:Factions_skill_trainers_by_campaign_progress and change the #dpl to work on that category instead. That way we wouldn't mess up the sorting on Category:Factions_skill_trainers. --Regendo (talk) 16:25, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

I'd agree for a second category to retain the general category's alphabetical sorting. I don't know how to interface with #dpl or what keeping the category 'hidden' entails though; I only understand enough to copy/paste basic raw formatting. (also forgot to reply but I'm glad for Steve1's latest revert on this page, as a mention.) Kiega123456789ooo (talk) 07:46, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

I made the changes to List of Factions skill trainers and the respective NPC articles. The page is now sorted, using Category:Factions skill trainers by campaign location. If we like this solution, we can do the same for the other campaigns. (I just realize I've named the category "by campaign location" instead of the much better "by campaign progress" and that's going to be annoying to change.) --Regendo (talk) 21:51, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Also, when we do get these pages into a useful state we should add them to Template:Skill lists navbar. --Regendo (talk) 22:12, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

As a user input: Now that I started skill shopping, I strongly prefer the campaign order of this page over the unordered mess of the Factions and Nightfall pages. -- kazerniel (talk | contribs) 21:39, 5 September 2023 (UTC)