Talk:Skill nomenclature

you can add some sin ones here, lotus ones are about energy and golden ones req enchants to work (i think). -Auron 06:57, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Already documented at Guide_to_playing_as_an_assassin#Assassin_skill_names_nomenclature, but not sure if that's the best place for it. --JonTheMon 00:55, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

For the Benefit of Mr. Kite

As per request. To 127 0 0 1, and anyone who thinks they should put lots of examples by each term,

"The page is titled "Skill nomenclature," and is a record of the patterns in skill names and their associated effects. As such, it really should be enough to list the patterns in skill names and their associated effects, but since it would be strictly on our word that the readers take it, we also offer some examples to show you what we mean. This is like defining a term and adding, "such as", or "e.g.," or the like, and then giving a few examples exemplary of the kind. This does not mean defining every member of the kind. That would be as absurd as saying, "A consonant is a sound which involves some stoppage of the air flow, such as b, c, d, f, g, h, j, k, l, m, n, p, q, r, s, t, v, w, x, y, or z." The whole point of the article is to give some info that people can use to generalize and understand other skills without referring back to a list (it's easy enough to search for skills that have the word "Pious" or "Lotus" in them...) . So, yes, to list more than 3 or 4 examples for each definition, especially if it involves listing every skill the term can apply to, is wrong."

However, I wouldn't mind making the examples a Show/Hide thing that takes a single line, but can expand to include any number of examples, if it were understood that it was then to show the full number of skills the term applies to. | 72 (UTC) 03:15, 7 February 2010 (UTC)

(Still the case) | 72 | 23:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

This would be true if these were strict definitions with a consistently large number of examples, but these groups vary from 2 to a lot more, and many of the definitions are far from clear. I'm in favour of listing EVERY example, with possible exceptions if that goes into double digits. Mist Y (talk) 15:18, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Aura Slicer

I think it's the same deal as Life Attunement not fitting the Attunement's description. - J.P.Talk 12:19, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Eremite

is a very, very weak connection, and unlike many of the other entries, the word has nothing to do with the effect. Should we just axe that one off the list? It seems more random than intended. -Auron 01:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah... only has 2 skills in its entire category, as well (though so does Savage).. I'm for axeing | 72 | 02:14, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

A lot of the things being added right now only have a single skill associated with them. Blossom/Jungle, for instance. The two skills are in no way connected to each other (Death Blossom always dealt aoe, Jungle Strike didn't until 3 years later) so they shouldn't be listed together, and then you've only got a skill each. This page is for listing similar skills with similar names, finding common strings so to speak. It's not a catch-all skill effects quick reference. elix Omni 06:09, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Fully agree... Blossom/Jungle?!?!

Of course props to Falconeye for adding so many | 72 | 12:25, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

At least im trying. ^_^ I wont be adding widespread general-use or skills who's nomenclature are synominous with skill types (such as -Healing-, -Well-, --Weapon-, -Glyph-, -Trap-, -Touch-, -Ward-, etc.); but of -...Was...-, -Mantra- and such? --Falconeye 07:06, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Trimming

As the list grows and grows I think we should be trimming doubtful/unsupported ones. Update whenever necessary:

1. Brutal: < 3 skills ; shared element very common -- resolved
2. Corruption: Mystic Corruption barely fits the bill, which leaves 2 skills -- one of which deals w/ hexes and the other with conditions -- resolved
3. Fang: Fox Fangs, 1 of only 2 skills, does not fit description at all. -- resolved
4. Savage: beware the 2-part description, ends up with each applying to 1 or 2 skills -- resolved
5. Watchful: shared element extremely common; not many skills it applies to; doubtful if Watchful Intervention really qualifies
6. Insecurity: shared element extremely common; not many skills it applies to; skills seem to have health degeneration more in common
7. Angelic: the shared element here is also signified by the other words in the skills' names -- most notably "Protection"
8. Ballad: 1 skill in its pattern? -- resolved
9. Eye: 2 skills, one of which belongs to another, closely-related pattern
10. Melandru's: "damage" is extremely common; the rest of them don't really conform to the description. "Melandru's Resilience" is already explained by "Resilience"
11. Palm: 2 skills conform to it and 1 that fails to. Probably coincidence
12. Memory: 2 skills; one of them, look at the "Renew" entry; the other seems to be about healing ("Soothing")
13. Remove: possibly in the higher (=obvious) table, if even that...
14. Energy: using the more general root of the word now, it probably deserves to be in the higher (=obvious) table

that is all
| 72 | 15:54, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
| 72 | 23:02, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
| 72 | 23:20, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
| 72 | 13:17, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
| 72 | 00:34, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
| 72 | 03:06, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Golden Fang Strike should've been in Fox Fang's spot; Shadow Fang should also have been on the list. — Raine Valen 21:30, 25 Sep 2010 (UTC)

"Corruption"'s connotation seems to revolve around exploiting or enhancing hexes or conditions: Mystic Corruption enhances conditions with enchants, Corrupt Enchantment exploits an enchantment to create a hex, Feast of Corruption exploits hexes and conditions to deal damage and steal life, Signet of Deadly Corruption exploits conditions to do damage, Signet of Corruption exploits conditions and hexes to deal damage and generate energy. — Raine Valen 21:36, 25 Sep 2010 (UTC)

"Savage" is an interrupt with a conditional bonus for interrupting a spell. — Raine Valen 21:45, 25 Sep 2010 (UTC)

I also think that any entry which has only 2 associated skills, and on top of that makes a concession about a similarly-named skill that doesn't fit the pattern, is not in good standing (thinkin' bout Anguish) | 72 | 03:27, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Recurring Insecurity and Mark of Insecurity also had completely unrelated functions at creation, so I'm for deleting it. — Raine Valen 3:41, 26 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Many of these skills -are- their own official nomenclature (such as Ballad of Restoration). When Anet updated Anguished Was Lingwah, they specifically stated in developer's notes, that it was intended to correct a long ignored error in skill nomenclature regarding the name Anguish and its relationship to hexes. Then again, they dont follow thier own rules 50% the time and there are many skills in need of name-changes to conform with nomenclature (Spiritleech Aura, for starters). --Falconeye 05:54, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

2.0: Specific improvements

Illusion of Weakness is a penalty with a bonus on end. — Raine Valen 3:27, 26 Sep 2010 (UTC)

(oops) | 72 | 03:29, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Vital Boon doesn't enhance healing; it enhances Vitality (as per "vital" nomenclature) and also heals. — Raine Valen 3:30, 26 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Pious Assault, Pious Fury, and Pious Haste don't get any benefit for removing the enchantments. — Raine Valen 3:31, 26 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Shielding Hands, Shield of Absorption, Shield of Deflection, Spell Shield, Shield of Judgment, and Shield of Regeneration don't conform to the given "shield" pattern. — Raine Valen 3:33, 26 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Taken, taken, and taken, made appropriate edits (feel free to do what you want with them though) and sometimes notes for these less uniform cases. Going to sleep now, though!

Isn't it funny how few people besides the editors probably actually read this page? :P | 72 | 03:43, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I really think that the two "eye" skills are just a coincidence. — Raine Valen 4:45, 26 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Yeah -- one of them has a keyword from another pattern that deals with criticals, and the other is a quote/reference they couldn't have changed. | 72 | 12:56, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Why are we keeping Ballad of Restoration again?

Do we really need to say what armor does?

So if a spell has disenchant it means it disenchants.

Extend extends something.

Do we really need to point out that Haste makes you do something faster?

Protect protects.

Speed increases speed.

Summon summons.

I mean really, some of these just seem overly obvious. --JonTheMon 14:55, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree about any where it does literally coincide.

But on the other hand "speed" could mean attack speed, movement speed, skill recharge speed, or activation speed, etc; it just happens not to do so here... (What if they'd used "Celerity" instead? :P)

Maybe we should have a smaller table before or after the main one, very straightforward and without examples:

Keywords that mean more or less what they say

Keyword	Effect
Armor	Grants +armor
Disenchantment	Removes enchantments
Extend	Lengthens duration
Protect	Lessens incoming damage
Speed (or Haste)	Increases movement speed
Summon	Summons an Asura

Or even just a list, without the explanations:

"Armor , Dis-enchantment , Extend (duration) , Protect , (movement) Speed , Summon (an Asura)" | 72 | 16:44, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

table column width

Is it possible to change the width of the table's columns? Or is it resolution-based? Or just fixed? My thought is that the Examples column could be a little wider (see Corruption) in exchange for a little bit narrower Notes (no cell of which is anywhere close to being over-full). | 72 | 02:00, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

No? | 72 | 03:25, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I dunno man

This page is so long now that it doesn't really serve a purpose anymore. It's like reading a list of all the skills in the game. elix Omni 22:15, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

I agree. Of course "defile" means "turns advantage into disadvantage", that's English! "Avatar means turn into a God" - that's not special nomenclature, that's being consistent and not coming up with 5 different words for "taking the form of". Most of the 2 skill words don't belong here either, that's generally just coincidence. There's only so many descriptive words you can come up with for "energy gain", it's not a "special word", it's recycling. If it was meant to be a "special word" there wouldn't be so many different words for it. The article as it is is extremely overwritten. Manifold 23:44, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

See "Trimming" above and contribute to it (the top section) with brief discussion or suggestion | 72 | 01:47, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) We have 116 entries, and could save a lot of space/readability by limiting examples even further -- say, to the good round number of 3; they are the main thing that makes each entry so tall and difficult to scan. (I think people would get the point anyway, from 3 skills with a significant similarity.) Of course I'd be willing to do the tedious bit... | 72 | 02:19, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Sounds good. Implement this at once!

Oh, and, where possible, try to use examples that exhibit enough variance (preferably as much as possible) in other regards to sufficiently demonstrate that their clear tie is the one being described; I think that'd be better than three very similar skills. If that makes any sense. — Raine Valen 2:24, 27 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Good thinking. (I've been doing something similar to that when I cut down extras so far.) I'll proceed immediately | 72 | 02:31, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Done. | 72 | 03:26, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Disambig

So maybe I'm being dense, but what is the {{disambig}} at the top of the page for? It doesn't list any other pages to go to, so is it just left over from a previous version of this page? --Rainith 21:39, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Huh... gone | 72 | 21:48, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Quite frankly

I don't see much use for this article at all. If all skills actually conformed to its nomenclature, even with the case of skill rebalances and redesigns, my opinion would be different; but right now it's a messy article and only partially accurate as it disputes itself more often than not.
Opposite to deletion, however, I would weed out those aspects that have no inconsistencies (such as Boon) and ditch the ones that do (such as Fury). Hopefully in an attempt to keep it accurate.
I would also make all columns of equal width.
On a side-note, Word has nothing to do with healing, but seems to have an additional effect if an ally is under a certain health threshold. Though, as I am questioning the use of this article at this stage, I will not make such an edit until this issue has been adressed. - Infinite - talk 22:49, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree. As you can see above, near the start of this article I and a couple others tried to keep it down a bit. However, there came a point at which the apathy about cleaning it up overcame the efforts, and it's been expanding since. If you're willing to add to a discussion of the form above, where specific ones are brought to the table, I'll join in and help with the edits, etc. | 72 | 01:06, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

This page is pointless. -- Hong 06:03, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Only at the bloated level at which it is now. Less is more... | 72 | 12:51, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Time for an overhaul

It's been long clear by the comments on this talk page that skill nomenclature is ineffective in its current form: it's too long, there are too many obvious connections (a skill with "axe" in the name is an "axe skill," really?), and too many specious connections.

I've taken the first pass at an overhaul by simplifying the introduction (mostly removing filler words) and tidying up the first section (primarily by moving the obvious). I've grouped the table into three subtables, one each for: weapon-associated words, elemental magic/damage types, and the remainder. I've also removed the obvious words and a few that didn't fit the "predictable" aspect (e.g. "burning" has to do with burning, which has a close, but non-universal connection to fire).

I'll make a second pass to tackle the longer and far more complex second table and perhaps a third for the rest of the article.

For the so-called indirect keywords, I plan to reduce to a single example for each. It might also be useful to find a non-alphabetical way of arranging things (since the list is so long). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:57, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

cleaned this up a bit

Maybe I went a little overboard (or didn't go far enough), but that can be fixed if necessary. There are a bunch I'm still not at all happy with:

1. Boon - this just needs work...
2. Fury - the ONLY skill that fits both halves of the description is Soldier's Fury, so this should probably be separated
3. Instability - "knocks down" is kind of implied in the name, and only 2 skills makes it pretty weak
4. Revealed / Inspired - "Becomes the skill it affects" is... not the best wording... anyway, I've removed most of the other instances of 2 words for the same thing
5. Savage - Savage Pounce isn't exactly an interrupt with a bonus vs spells
6. Shadow - "Relates to shadow stepping or self-preservation" is much to vague - maybe just delete this one?

If anyone has any idea what to do with those, please do it.

I could have misinterpreted "associated with this group" as "would fit perfectly into this group if it had the right name" - is there actually some sort of official association I don't know about?

Also, special shout-out to the description for Mirror: "Affects multiple targets". Wow. Mist Y (talk) 17:48, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

For Boon, "maximum health and/or healing benefits" maybe. Or just "bonuses pertaining to health." I'm not in the vicinity of a computer other than my smartphone right now, because I would have double-checked and edited it accordingly. - Infinite - talk 22:03, 27 January 2018 (UTC)