Talk:Winter's Embrace

I can see this being used on melee a lot, nice to snare someone, ok you'd be slow, but so would they...I like it.

It's a bit odd, because if someone is running away from you, the snare happens .75s after you cast it so they can get out of melee range when the effect goes off, and beacuse your both snared you can't get to them. So While it will be good on Melee takes a lot of skill to use. ~Izzy @-'---- 00:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I really can't see much, if any use in this skill. --76.2.226.20 00:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

IMS still works, eh

What kind of effect is applied to the caster? If it's a hex it could be quickly removed, however if it's like Life Siphon or Siphon Speed (visual effect / buff) then there's no way to bypass the self-slow.

Text is wrong on this it should be 90% I'll fix it next update. ~Izzy @-'---- 01:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

So basically, an alternative to shock to pin people in place while you spike them (as a war)? Interesting idea, really, although I think the KD is still more valuable.

With Avatar of Dwayna does this not slow you (order of hex removal vs. self infliction)? Crystalion 03:39, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

If this is a hex on the caster - pre-cast Holy Veil, touch target, remove holy veil, 90% slowdown on target. Good for PBAoE eles? --MasterPatricko 08:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Something makes me think this won't function mechanistically as a hex on the caster. The ability to self-hex could be exploited in a number of ways, like knowing for sure that you can use Shatter Hex - ok, not the best example, but IIRC there so far is no way to hex yourself so I don't see this skill being any different. Skuldnoshinpu 13:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

So I think the main question is, is this a self-hex? Because if it is, then people could use this with inspired hex for energy re-gain (and cast again? lol) or hex eater vortex to deal massive damage. Would be interesting !

Probably not. Other hexes that have an effect on the caster(life siphon, malaise, for example) don't hex the caster. --Edru viransu 15:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, if it is a sefl-hex, it's either spike with HEV, or prevent with Hex Breaker.

The only classes who could run HB like that are E/Me or Me/E. Neither of which have any good excuse to be using this, especially with the aftercast. Really can't see a use for this.

Then there's the damage guys: Why would melee spike with something that has aftercast? Dead give away or what. As a Warrior you might as well Rush all the way over to the spike target, since it's just as obvious. Fro 00:04, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Use on a melee class while your a spellcaster. Or put it in with something like Starburster build so if they're moving 90% and your not moving, it doesnt matter as your PBAoE's are still hitting him.--§ Eloc § 05:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

(reset) On the note of Hex Breaker, would you cause yourself damage? 07:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Nothing would happen. There is no damage component to this skill anyway. --Ufelder 07:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Surely it will be like Siphon Speed, having no hex on you, but instead slowing you down as long as the foe is hexed. --84.250.16.99 22:32, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

what a fucking gay spell--74.114.224.156 05:40, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

this spell would show some more usefulness if it was like all foes in the area or nearby. this skill than could be useful in controlling mobs or snaring mobs/groups allowing for mass aoe spells.

This skill seems to me like Iron Mist, Burning Speed, Swirling Aura i.e. won't see much use. If it was AoE it could have been great for PvE. Yet again, duration is not very good either.

before nightfall came out burning speed actually was a decent running skill, now theres better skills open for use. but back to WE, the question really should be, would anet mind if this skill is completely revamped or does this skill still have to remain in certain parameters? if not than i would suggest changing the skill from another speed hex and into an aoe damage spell to rival fire and earth spells. i think people were hoping that GW:EN would provide a skill of such service. Guess what im trying to say is maybe make this a skill that gives the hydromancer some real teeth and not be feared just for some snaring. had a brainstorm and thought of what this skill should do, but it change the entire idea of the skill. make the spell a variant of maelstorm with same scaling of damage but instead of spells make it attacks or attack skills.Mago First 19:35, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I'd like a skill with the same AoE, maybe slightly less damage, as Meteor Shower, but slows every 3 seconds instead of knocking down. Wouldn't be as strong as MS due to lack of knockdown, but would still give Hydromancers some decent damage so they might be used in PvE. As this skills is now, I don't know if I ever see it getting used. --Deathwing 13:09, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

That is an amazing idea, but please... no 5 sec cast, it's horrible.... --Lou-Saydus 17:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

A new Otyugh's Cry? I think so!

I think this skill is almost as awesome as Tease. It really is. :D --Redfeather 23:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree with that ;) Xelonir 14:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I can see myself having fun with this in RA.

E/N against Monk or Caster. Gaze of Contempt -> Winter's Embrace -> Maelstrom -> Ice Spear -> Frozen Burst/Shard Storm -> Ice Spear away! or E/Me Variant VS Monk or Caster. Winter's Embrace -> Web of Disruption (Quick hex cover) -> Maelstrom -> Ice Spear -> Frozen Burst/Shard Storm -> Ice Spear away! --Shadetz X 06:58, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Ask yourself, why would I ever run this. It doesn't take skill to use, it takes stupidity to place it on your bar. To use it on a melee you would have to KD the target first, in which case you are better off just shocking them again. It hurts you too much and doesn't bring you anything new. It is much better to off-source the snaring to a water ele with freezing gust. To even begin to make this usable the snare on yourself has to be less than the snare on the other guy (like 66-33%.) -Warskull 15:47, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Buff?

As-is, this skill really dosnt make much since, usually u snare someone to catch up to them. not much point if you can touch them. and then you move slower too? i guess it could be good for catching someone with their pants down in an aoe spell and over extended, like searing heat or ms. but rly needs a longer duration. --Lou-Saydus 21:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe adjacent as well for use at the flagstand. Nearby seems a bit too large, though. 08:08, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Remember that this is a non-elite 90% movement reduction spell. There are only two others that are non-elite: Iron Mist and Binding Chains. Now, which condition would you prefer? Your target being immune to everything but lightning damage, unable to be attacked without the effect ending, or sharing that 90% speed reduction? I'm sure there's more ways to benefit from this than the other two. And I would also like to mention that there are only two elite 90% reduction spells: Icy Shackles and Mind Freeze. Both are conditional and may not always work as intended, not to mention that one of them causes exhaustion. I would just like to say that my heavily ice-themed Water Elementalist is going to love this skill. Vyldan 18:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Stances for run more don't make you run faster than 90%?--NeHoMaR 15:30, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

All of you ney-sayign this skill are foo-els of the highest degree. this could become the next GvG metagame. E/As will be able to snare warriors then teleport away, as will A/Es. But far more importantly, W/E, the ones i think have a shot of ruling gvg with this in the metagame, will become anti tanks. Your monk is getting tailed by a enemy derv, tank, sin, ECT. Your trusty W/E runs up and WE's him, forcing him to either engage the tank, or walk around 90% slower while the tank thrashes him. YES, this skill WILL see use, perhaps over-taking Shock with its metagame-smug-face. just think of the tactical advantages this will have for gvg and im sure you will all agree, its pleanty uber as is. (68.63.233.200 21:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about all of that, I just find it useful on war/ele to pin things down in Meteor Showers or Maelstroms, that kind of stuff, without having to build up adrenaline for knockdown or using an elite like Icy Shackles on the ele's bar. Cripple is ok, but 90% slow is pretty awesome. But I mostly do pve. Elder Angelus April 24 2008.

Uses for winter's embrace

I think this is a very good skill. I don't know why many people call it useless or bad. Realize that you can use this with shadow stepping if you want. Also, most situations in PvP (and PvE too, not that this seems like much of a PvE skill) you work as a team... you don't necessarily need to be mobile... just the target shouldn't be. Ele runs in to cripple, monk prots him, and the rest of the team unleashes their fury on him. Thing is the enemy can do the same thing to your ele, creating somewhat of a necessity to bring a shadowstep with him (an elite one would be best, but not necessary). With shadowstep, it's a pretty great skill. I could see the biggest use of this to thwart flag runners or relic runners.--Xapti 22:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

This + Return. Yay. --Deathwing 07:23, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this skill is good. It sucks in pve (a lot of skill does) but it's good in pvp. Beign slowed of 90% means you're still. Staying still means you can be body blocked extreamly easy. Flag cappers and relic runners could fear that. "Can't touch this!" anyone? :) --YukoIshii 17:29, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

as for its use by flag runner and relic bringers(or whatever) i can't say much because i haven't played that aspect of pvp that much to be able to say what works and what doesn't. but from a general knowledge of what these two jobs, a good investment into water magic to make WE last long enough to have an effect also provides some armor boost and speed buff skills that its workable. my only question into that aspect is if your gonna try and help your team some more by snaring, wouldn't there be several more useful skills that don't hinder u and yet snares the target or group?

otherwise WE isn't worthwhile skill on the bar. shadow stepping won't make up for the huge speed reduce. also you would exposing yourself to the enemy team to touch your target, than either shadow step out and hope the hex is covered or not stripped, or stay cast a cover hex and get pummeled by friends of the enemy. its to big of a risk for a single target when u can do the same thing with another spell and not be so close and might even get additional targets with the right spell with some damage on the side.

so as it stands, WE has no use in pve to which pretty much all of us agree to. in pvp, WE has limited to no use, depending on what your doing and who you are. so it makes sense to have anet tweak this skill so that it has more appeal for pve and almost shoe in for pvp use for hydromancers.Mago First 20:27, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Just a thought; a Me/E support use it against enemy melee, then shatter hex/hex eater vortex for some guaranteed damage, then kite away. Dunno. -- Mafaraxas 02:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Er, unless it doesn't count as a hex on you too... -- Mafaraxas 02:57, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Will work great in PvE, when you need to snare important boss characters in Elite missions. Kanaxai comes to mind.- Anonymous --142.167.25.102 03:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Another skill to make relic runs even more insufferable in HA. --72.211.155.160 19:14, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

(Glyph of Sac) -> Met Shower -> Shadow Walk -> Winter's Embrace -> Bed of Coals -> (Extra AoE/Nukes) -> Dash -> Let them die, use any follow-ups that could be useful. --208.117.81.202 21:10, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

This and Malaise should be hexes on yourself, in that way you could use shatter hex or smite hex for example, that would make both these two skills much better. --Cursed angel 08:52, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

What if...

this skill would be a ranged one, like in: "For 2...5 seconds, you and target foe move 90% slower." IMO this skill would become WAY more popular. The skills image, however, wouldn't match to the spell any longer, but hey! But the skill would probably match Elite status then... -AikoN- 84.27.153.226 16:27, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Could see this on a R/E BHA then --86.90.168.85 17:31, 20 October 2007 (UTC) forgot to log in ----InfestedHydralisk 17:32, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

This skill is functionally useless. Raptaz 14:19, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Definitely, no purpose at all. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 00:49, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Its purpose is to lock the warrior with you... Silver Armor Earth Tanks... lol 06:21, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Shouldn't be made ranged. Mid-liners would run it, and remove the need for backliners to relieve pressure off the monks, as well as boost the offense a bit too much (then again, what is 'too much'?). Half Range... meh. Best thing to do would be to redo the skill from scratch. I doubt people will combo this with Lightning Touch and/or Chilling Winds anyways, which are basically the only other ele skills that really synergize with this one. Or, just add a bit of damage. Let's say 20...75 to start with. Still doubt it'd be used in that form either, though. Saphatorael 19:41, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

This skill works considerably well combined with "Coward!", If It lasted longer you might be able to keep them there for some time. Alternative Cripslash, fun also. ~Bound

If you got an armor increase, or something, it would mean that although you are slow, you would be tougher to kill. perhaps in order of +5..29..37 Armor, or add damage. StatMan 13:25, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I like this skill as is, you can embrace a guy with your melee, cast a heal, then go back chasing with ease. It could use a duration buff though.--Tyri Sunbeam 02:42, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Possible Farm snare?

Sliver Armour > Winter's Embrace. It can keep your target from escaping. The chance to block from Sliver Armour can be useful to stay alive. Cruznik 00:49, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Good luck being able to select the right target to snare b.r // talk 01:07, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

...just C+Spacebar the target you're wanting so it doesnt kite. honestly...--70.118.205.153 23:40, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

90%?

Earthen Shackles, Binding Chains both do 90%. I think there are a few more non-elites. Reverting. StatMan 00:16, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Ug, why the change?

Seriously, this is asking to be stacked with weaken knees, The skill while not great was fun to use in its previous form. Please revert. 169.235.33.126 02:22, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention that the damage taken while moving becomes higher than Weaken Knees at higher levels. I know that's balanced out by the 4 degen WK gives, but here come the stacks... -- Luigi Talk 08:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

So you're telling me you'd take this over Shameful Fear? Not only does Shameful Fear deal more damage, but it lasts longer and allows you to use Enduring Toxin at the same time. I can only see this skill being abused in an Elementalist hexing build via Chilling Winds, which is only viable in a Water or Air based build. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 09:53, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Yeah but this has great synergy with DoT AoEs, which is usually when you'd want to snare an enemy anyway. With Shameful Fear they will take damage for kiting, but will be able to kite faster. With this they can be snared in an AoE and take extra damage if they try to escape. 86.27.93.107 11:37, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Just because 2 skills have similar effect doesn't mean you should Stack them ? This skill is almost certainly LOLOP and by that I mean as a standalone skill.If you got this why bother with weaken knees imo ? Lilondra *poke* 16:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

This skill is bad. Other water magic hexes deal more (and unconditional) damage, snare for longer, and recharge faster. <>Sparky, the Tainted 07:26, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

This is 5 energy, 3/4 cast, and is an unconditional snare (Freezing Gust doesn't won't work on a Blurred target; Shard Storm can be dodged). This is pretty win tbh. Raine - talk 18:08, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

That user was most likely thinking of Ice Spikes and Deep Freeze. While both do have longer casting times, they both are AoE, boosting their potential damage output to however many foes are in the area of effect. Winter's Embrace on the other hand, is very unlikely to get all its damage done as most people are smart enough to stop moving when hexed with this kind of hex. In addition, the DoT at 16 Water is basically the same as 8 pips of degen (assuming the person is moving the whole time), which is easily countered by Healing Breeze at as low as 12 Healing Prayers or Troll Unguent at 10 Wilderness Survival or by simply not moving. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 14:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm talking about PvP. Raine - talk 20:37, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

This almost useless for a Water Magic ele. It's only good for Air Magic eles (due to the low cost and Chilling Winds), or secondary elementalists. The 5 and 0.75¾ are the only things making this even partly useable. -~=Sparky (talk) 20:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Useless, what are you talking about? It's a 50% upkeep version (at 12+1+1 spec), non elite version (with a built in snare) of Weaken Knees. Okay, it's only equivalent to approximately 8 health degeneration, but let's assume for a moment we're in some low end PvP. AB? What are the odds of a target that isn't within earshot of a monk to have any form of +8 health regeneration? I see you've listed two possibilities there. What if the target isn't subbed monk or subbed ranger? (Or, you know, sin, Shadow Refuge and all. Either they move, and suffer only 8 degen for 6 seconds in a feeble attempt to escape, or to attack you, or they stay there and let you burn your energy and blow them up. And, within the downtime, you can still (obviously) kite for the recharge, use a 40/40 set on the cast, or hell, let's not even move and LET them attack us. It'll recharge before anything can kill me anyway. The point is, in "low end" forms of pvp where you're not guaranteed to run into a target with some form of heals (be that a monk, or self heals on their bar), this can be an extremely annoying snare which, ultimately, can be very effective. And even if you do happen to run into something with self heal, it's still quite effective as a snare, it can stop someone from moving completely until a monk removes it in some cases, or it can act as a 66% snare. Okay, 50% upkeep isn't as good as some of the other water snares out there, but at least you're not useless for bringing this as a snare, and at least it still has a relatively useful effect. It's not like I'm encouraging this to be brought into GvG or HA or anything, but it has quite a few places where I can see it being pretty effective in a variety of situations. Ryuu - talk 21:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Actually, if the uptime were a little better, it'd be pretty abusive in GvG as well. --Jette 21:34, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

If you're that inept that this one skill is gonna bring you down then you deserve to be pwned by it. I think it works beautifully as it is now, Water magic has long been neglected and needed this refreshing change Nay the One and Only 07:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Because water eles weren't already on every balanced GvG team since forever? Oh okay. is for Raine, etc. 07:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Reality states that pretty much every water ele brings this. 152.226.7.201 08:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

^Obs mode agrees 68.94.181.128 22:30, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

You obviously missed my point, I was referring to update neglect, it needed some nice fresh skill changes, it just seemed stagnant to me. Yes I am well aware snarelees are used in gvg Nay the One and Only 08:48, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Nerfed

Why? Now it's harder to use than Ice Shard, and less effective, even though they do the same thing. It needs to be buffed! or at least changed. Otherwise it's a useless version of ice shard.

how is it harder to use than Shard Storm? It can't be dodged and is cast faster. recharge on this is lame, other than that it's not bad. I admit I don't use it I prefer seeping, cripshot, and yes I prefer Shard Storm - but not for ease of use, but for the simple fact of recharge. (I assume you mean Shard storm, it's either that or Icy shackles which wouldn't be fair to compare to.) Roflmaomgz 04:22, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Oops. I meant Shard Storm. Thing is, the target is only hurt by the few seconds that the foe uses so he can move. I agree that since it isn't a projectile, it has an advantage, but it doesn't cause any damage. Might as well use Ice Prison. Maybe if this spell had new affects. Say it actually froze a foe for 3 seconds, or until affected by a skill. A completely new skill that can cause allot of damage if you're using it correctly.