User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Underpowered Skills/Mesmer/Archive 2

Domination Magic

Aneurysm

Not enough damage to finish off people. Up recharge to like 15, and increase damage to like 5 at 12. Otherwise it's just a great skill to make us monks in RA happy. Antiarchangel 14:35, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it's pretty weak. Heck, Offering of Blood is an elite and trades over 100 health for 20 energy at 16 blood magic; 5 damage per point of energy is nasty if the enemy is low, but you are essentially OoB-ing them.--Epinephrine 23:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Really, one huge issue with this is that it could deal some stupidly huge amount of damage if the foe were really low on energy. It's bad enough that you give your enemy energy, but if you don't get a kill it's really problematic. Maybe instead of filling your enemy's energy (which is trouble, as it varies from a cap of 20 or less to way up there for elementalists) it should work more like a reverse energy burn; a smaller, fixed amount of energy gained, but a higher trade-off in damage, and of course a longer recharge (20 seconds?). Something like "Target player gains 10 energy, and suffers 1..12 damage per point of energy gained".--Epinephrine 18:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

The reverse Energy Burn idea was one of the suggestions in the wiki talks before EotN came out. It was probably the favourite too. This skills risk vs. reward ratio is not right. --Redfeather 09:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Backfire

Too expensive, too long a recharge, too long a cast, and too short a duration to see use. Plus nobody is stupid enough to cast through it ethier, they'll just wait till it comes off. Antiarchangel 14:18, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Try monking in ra. If for whatever reason you haven't pre-veiled or it got removed backfire can be very difficult to deal with if there is any pressure on you or teammates. Also, its energy cost is nothing when you consider GoLE/Auspicious/PDrain (which admittedly can have bad synergy with backfire). As for the duration, 10 seconds is all too long if it doesnt get removed from your monk. Leave as is IMHO. --118.90.120.7 17:39, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the cast time is a problem. This could be useful on split, but it's too easy to interrupt or Gale. If it was 2 seconds, it would be hard to Gale it if casted with decent Fast Casting and that would be good imo. Also it would be a little less terrible at stand that way. Right now it's just interrupt bait and really isn't effective most of the time. A Mesmer does have the tools to force this to work, but that's assuming perfect conditions. In practice this will be interrupted or removed. You can remove stuff like Protective Spirit or Spirit Bond that would prevent it from working, but it's hard to prevent it from being removed by the other Monk at stand, so I think it should at least not be so easy to interrupt. --TimeToGetIntense 23:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

It's good in PvE >.> You know that thing.....Jigoku 01:37, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I do find the cast time annoying, agreed. However, though it may not currently be suited for GvG, consider the wider implications of buffing it. I believe this skill is more oriented towards random/team arenas rather than GvG/HoH. In the arenas you will frequently only have one character capable of removing it, which really is a pain if it is on that character. Therefore another good way to dispose of it is via interrupts - if you do not have the capacity to do this then backfire becomes a big problem for your monk. If it were buffed to be less interruptable then it would be nearly impossible to dispose of before it naturally ended in a 4v4 environment. --118.90.120.7 16:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm...What is it like to cast this on an Infuser right before a spike? The Infuser kill itself? Haha Lightblade 07:02, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

In 4v4 you have to pre-veil. There are even more deadly hexes such as Shroud of Silence which have short cast times and much more devestating effects. If you didn't pre-veil as the only Monk and Backfire ends up on you, you can just endure 130 damage and remove it at least. Also, a good 4v4 team should have some additional support on a midline character. When it comes to GvG I feel that there are too many variables that can go wrong as long as the cast time is 3 seconds. If you can at least count on getting off the spell sucessfully, then there might be some reason to cast it at stand. The reason you'd bring it would be primarily for splits though, which is strange for a Mesmer I admit, but I think Izzy is trying to promote more split diversity anyway. --TimeToGetIntense 19:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Backfire should be an elite elementalist skill.--Yung Frizzle

Price of Pride

energy loss when the target uses an elite skill is anti-climactic (not to mention the loss is less than that of energy burn). --Life Infusion «T» 21:14, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Chaos Storm

the problem here is that the skill defeats the point of a mesmer. It should probably give an AoE hex like "Target foe and all adjacent foes are Hexed with Chaos Storm for 5 seconds and lose 0...1...2 energy per second while this hex is active." (15 energy, 3 cast, 30 recharge)" We don't have that many aoe energy denials. --Life Infusion «T» 00:54, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

I still think that it should be turned into a better version of Maelstrom, which is pretty much a DOT version of Cry of Frustration. -- Gordon Ecker 00:15, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Hex Eater Vortex

this got overnerfed , i know the issue with it on GvG , why not giving back it's original recharge and damage , and funcionally change the skill into "Remove a hex from target ally. If target ally is still hexed , foes near that ally lose enchantment" --189.70.107.206 11:26, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

What about buffing the hex removal aspect? Something like "Remove a Hex from target ally. If a Hex is removed in this way, other allies near that ally lose one Hex and foes near that ally take X damage and lose one Enchantment.". -- Gordon Ecker 08:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

How about removing the idea of giving Mesmers AoE damage... -Life Infusion «T» 22:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

so you want to remove shatter hex , hex eater vortex , chaos storm , cry of pain and cry of frustration from the game , ok.--189.12.67.75 22:13, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Power Leak

I know it's a fairly heated skill but this is why I feel it should return to it's former glory, or some semblance of it;

• Was not overpowered in the sense that it ruined the e-management of an opposing caster build. Most opponents in PvP will be operating with 10-20 energy once the heat of battle gets going, and, at most, the skill would've shorted the target two spells (interrupted and the inevitable e-management recoup)
• Was not overpowered in terms of application. That is to say, only certain classes were really at risk from this skill, namely necromancers and elementalists. Monks have quick casting spells requiring "twitch" interrupts to hit, and other casters are secondary targets for monks, or healers in general.
• Was not overpowered in terms of recharge. Could not be spammed, and even if it could, it only offered limited benefits.
• Presently overshadowed by practically any other interrupt or e-drain skill in game.

Suggestions for Improving the Skill

• Changing the dynamic of energy flow, meaning making some skills costlier, some e-management skills less effective, etc etc
• Restoring (some of) the glory of the skill by raising e drain to at least 10 at max. This will make up for the harder application.
• Changing the method of application
• Raising the energy draining capacity of other skills to make them more viable
• Making the skill a skill interrupt, rather than a spell interrupt (most favored over restoration of e-drain)

That being said, despite what other people may say, I think you do a good job for the most part, just please try to compensate your nerfs with buffs in other areas. For instance e-denial functions as a method of shutdown, so by nerfing e-denial, we need alternatives to maintain the play style. Maybe buff skill-denial instead? --75.176.60.177 05:22, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

change it into it's original version , it was not overpowered at all , or decrease the cooldown and the energy cost --189.12.67.75 22:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Fast Casting

Stolen Speed

A very underused elite due to its mild effect and the fact it is in the FC attribute. It would be receive more attention if given an adjustment from 25% to 33% for yours and your target's cast speed. Also, consider removing the qualifier that only your spells targeting the Hexed foe will cast faster. Just like Siphon Speed lets you run 33% faster from anyone, this elite should allow your spells to cast 33% faster against anyone (not just the target). arredondo 07:55, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

It's a good cover hex :). Though I don't know if it's worth it to go for an elite just to cover a hex. --Deathwing 08:00, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Not with PB around. To be clear, here's how the skill would look:

Stolen Speed - Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, target foe's spells take 33% longer to cast and your spells take 33% less time to cast.

arredondo 18:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The problem with that was always hard rez. You could cast Rez extremely fast with this. There was also before the issue of stuff like Heal Party, Aegis, etc (although HP isn't really an issue now). To prevent that though, the skill could be like this:

That's not how the skill works. The skill only boost your own cast time when you're using a spell that target that hexed foe. Lightblade 07:04, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

5/1/5. Elite Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, target foe's spells take 33% longer to cast and your spells targetting a foe take 33% less time to cast.

So this way the speed buffs works for any foe, but it can't be abused with rez, long cast party buffs, etc.

And just like that, it's kinda lame as a cover hex atm simply because in theory it's the hex you'd want to cast FIRST Patccmoi 18:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Faster res is not a problem. Glyph of Sacrifice is an instant res and it's not even elite... --PunkSkeleton 12:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Well hard rezzes are already quickly cast by any Mesmer with decent FC points (for that matter, Rez sig is also faster with the FC sig change). Heh, if your team mates are dying, the other team doing the killing won't complain too much about how fast they're being rezzed. =)

arredondo 00:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

IMO, with the introduction of the Sum of All Fears spell this skill will be more frowned upon more than before. I think that the buff should be more than just 33%, it should be 75%, with movement speed reduction and a longer recharge time to balance. --Shadetz X 00:31, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking along those same lines, but like Sum of All Fears, have the downsides transferred to you as well. Stolen Speed - 10|1|8 for 5...20 seconds, target foe moves, attacks and casts spells 20% slower. You also move 20% faster, and your attacks and spells targeting that foe are performed 20% faster. (Terra Xin 10:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC))

The problem with this skill is that it's in the fast casting attribute, first of all fast casting and this doesnt stack, so having high fast casting and then using this wont help you cast any faster. This hex does helps you cast faster if you have lower than 6 fast casting but then it will only last for under 10 seconds. This skill need to be changed to inspiration, so that other professions can use it, just like persistence of memory this skill is completly useless in fast casting but may have been placed there due to how overpowered they could be if other proffession could use them.--Cursed Angel 00:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Yea, this doesn't need to be in inspiration, I don't think you want necro hex teams to use this and pump up their cast times, I really don't think that needs to happen, make it like sum of all fears, except that it gives you what it takes and increase the amount stolen to 33%, like what other ppl have suggested, and it will be decent, especially if you put it on multiple ppl.--Quicksilver Switch-Blade 20:49, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

You need to be very careful in buffing this skill. Currently, this is already able to make Diversion cast in 3/4 second. Lightblade 19:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

As you guys have stated, this skill is far too underpowered to be considered an elite. Hell, it would struggle to find its way onto my skill bar even if it wasn't an elite. It just not effective. But at the same time, making it overpowered won't help the matter much more.

Dispute the fact it is spammable, it just not effective, esp with higher fast casting as the additional 25% faster spells doesn't actually add up to that much in practice, as it stacks multiplicatively with fast casting. Just increasing its duration for increased ranks seems pointless to me. Something that is useless with a short duration is likely to be just as useless with a long duration.

So how about having a static duration, with a variant effectiveness, but retain the description so that its only increases casting vs that target. Something like: For 10 seconds, target foe's spells take 10%-50% longer to cast and your spells targeting that foe take 10%-50% less time to cast. This would not only solve the effectiveness problem, but make it strong enough to be considered an elite, without become too powerful. The slowing isn't too great, and the additional fast casting is limited to only one target. (plus it still stacks multiplicatively) --Yoh 00:44, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Why would anyone choose that over frustration or Sum of All Fear? Increase casting speed of a mesmer with high fast casting is not considered much of a benefit. I agree with the people stating that this should be an elite Sum of All Fear which siphon speed, attack speed and casting time from the enemy to the caster. --204.174.35.124 11:49, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

just remove the restriction that the spells need to target the hexed foe , and this will be a good skill 189.70.194.102 01:02, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Symbolic Celerity

Since Signet activation times have been added to Fast Casting inherently, this skill has definitely fallen out of scope (not that it was any good to begin with.) It needs to be changed, greatly. Ideally, it should be moved to Inspiration Magic to allow mesmers the ability not to spec into Fast Casting. Or change the function so that the next # of signets cant be interrupted. (Terra Xin 16:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC))

Symbolic Posture

Why is this skill needed when you've got two other signet 'stances' that do a better job? Keep the cost and recharge, but say "you cannot take damage or be knocked down with the next # of signets that you activate." If this is overpowering, then just remember that it takes up a skill slot, that's punishment enough. (Terra Xin 16:53, 2 February 2008 (UTC))

Persistence of Memory

who interrupts mesmers with high Fast casting? --Life Infusion «T» 21:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

make it target ally.--189.12.67.75 22:15, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Illusion Magic

Fevered Dreams

Since 8/8 this skills is poorer version of "Extend Conditions", both are elites with just different attributes... Inspiration in this case is much better, 'cause every Mesmer would skill it in pvp for his/her energy-management. Maybe this skill needs also a 180° turn... maybe it could deal 2 conditions (if it ends) and has some dereg... fever sounds like disease/dazed it also fits with "Fragility" Illusion also works with some conditions ("Shrinking Armor" or "Phantom Pain") --Kali Shin Shivara 21:35, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Shared Burden

This skill is pretty terrible. Not only does it require your elite slot and a hearty spec to last its recharge, but it severely pales in comparison to deep freeze. Suggest reducing recharge to 10, energy to 5, halve duration, and change area of effect to In the Area to make it worth the elite spot. As such, illusion snares are severely underpowered when compared to water snares, which snare better and do damage to boot!Samcobra 19:00, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Air of Disenchantment

This skill is like a more pathetic version of enchanter's conundrum.

Enchantment removal in an area is worth an elite to me. Antiarchangel 06:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC) .

Never mind just reread adjacent not in the area. Antiarchangel 06:42, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Making it worthwhile: "Target foe and all foes in the area lose one enchantment. For 10 seconds, affected foes cast Enchantments 10...82...100% slower. When Air of Disenchantment ends, it removes one Enchantment from each affected foe." Elite enchantment removal needs to have an actual decent effect. Maestro Ed 23:49, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I think instead of having this skill affect the casting time of enchantments it should affect the duration of enchantments and cause energy loss whenever foe use an enchantment. It should be something like 'For 3...15 seconds target foe's enchantments expires 20...50% faster and lose 2...5 energy whenever the foe cast an enchantment,' 10/1/15. At the moment I am pretty sick of enchantment stacked monks and dervishes in RA/TA (Even when I win lots of glad points using them); It is difficult to kill them!!!! --Shadetz X 06:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

How about 5/1/5 "After 3 seconds target foe and all nearby foes lose one enchantment" (probably overpowered but at least elite worthy) Now isn't that sexy? :D Jigoku 00:51, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Air of Disenchantment is ok. Because it removes an enchantment even it's removed by another spell. Lightblade 22:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

This skill suffers from problems similar to enchanter's conundrum, keep recharge and cast the same, bump up cost to 15e, make it remove an enchantment upon application instead of when it ends, and then make it increase energy cost of enchantments cast on target by same % scale as the slower casting part of this skill.--Quicksilver Switch-Blade 00:53, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't it make enchantments end sooner? Personally, if I were trying to balance it, I'd mirror it with Air of Enchantment at 5/.5/8 and make the affect have enchantments end sooner by % and the duration the same as AoE. Test it for a weekend and then adjust the basic stats on the data collected then. When was the last time they had a test weekend? =S RitualDoll 04:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

The recent buff to this skill makes it a good cover hex. It's one of the few hexes in the game that have 1/4 cast time. Not only that, but the skill still removes an enchantment if it is removed prematurely. Lightblade 07:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Who would waste their elite slot for a cover hex. --216.113.203.36 10:09, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Calculated Risk

This seems really weak when compared to Blurred Vision. While the recharge on Calculated Risk is 2s less, it is not AoE like Blurred, and it also has the added drawback of boosting the target's damage. Is the fact that it is in Illusion somehow justify how weak it is when compared to Blurred Vision? --Rob 00:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Distortion

I always carried this on my Ineptitude, Clumsiness, Spirit of Failure build in pve, at least in prophecies and factions, back then spirit of failure gave 5 energy and distortion only made u lose 1 each block but after the nerf this doesnt help alot. i've carried it in pvp a few times but it isnt worth it, im often out of energy or very low so to stop an assassin attackspike drains me without energy to protect myself with when distortion ends. I know it was nerfed cuz of other professions using it but it was nerfed for mesmers too, and it wasn't useful back then either. --Cursed Angel 11:36, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

So...what's the difference and what's the problem? RitualDoll 01:50, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

This is one of those skills that should be linked to the primary attribute or scaled so that it is only effective with high attributes in Illusion Magic. Illusion Mesmers are becoming worse and worse at defense against physical damage. Ineptitude and clumsiness got nerfed. Calculated risk can reduce damage output but does nothing against the attacker. Spirit of Failure is a failure in energy management and casting time. --Shadetz X 02:12, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Illusion of Haste

Another one of the forgotten it should have it stats lowered to something like 5/1/5 and maybe the cripple duration reduced? Jigoku 01:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC) or maybe add immunity to crip while its active it already removes crip and it might make it more viable Dstroyer 666 09:57, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

I would like to see it be a stance, with pretty much the same stats as it does now, then it can be used by secondaries and they wont need to worry about the 1.75 seconds of casting and not moving. Anti

Nah, because one of the cool things about this skill is that you can use another stance over it. Anyway it looks like they've reduced it to 5/1/5 as suggested, which is nice enough (Terra Xin 01:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

I'd like to see this either be a stance or increase the duration. At 15 Illusion Magic, it only lasts 11 seconds. When compared to other run skills the duration is pretty short. It could be interesting to see some new flag runners using this skill for GvG. --Rururrur 02:15, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It's 33% faster speed, cost 5 energy, recharge before it ends and you can take advantage of the cripple if you transfer it on someone else. And compared to alot of running stances they all lay around 10-15 seconds. --Cursed Angel 02:22, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

This skill is one of the worst running skills i know. Whenever I have this + 33% faster recharge, everyone else in my party still goes as fast! In the time I cast it, they are already running past me. Or buff its duration, speed or casting time or add another running skill for mesmers (stance or fast cast preferred). File:SigKarasu.png Karasu (talk) 16:48, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

decrease to 1/4 or 1/2 second cast ?--Life Infusion «T» 01:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Signet of Illusions

Currently this elite isn't even good enough for niche builds. The problem is that you need to go through its 2s activation time and the cast time of the spell you want to cast under it, making the combined cast time as high as 4s-5s. That is very sluggish. One way to help deal with this is by giving the player a number of uses per activation instead of only one...

Signet of Illusions -Elite Signet. Your next five Spells each use your Illusion attribute instead of its normal attribute. 0/2/5

You still only have at best an Illusion Mesmer running L15 spells instead of a max L12 for spells from the secondary, so it isn't overpowered. However some creative results may come out of it for at least PvE or arena builds.arredondo 08:10, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think you meant L16 since 12+3+1 = 16 :) Dargon 08:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Next 5 spells? Don't overdo it :p At least up the recharge if you're willing to go that high, maybe even to 30 seconds (which can be brought down with Mantra of Inscriptions easily) Saph 16:14, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

When this skill was announced for the Nightfall preview event, some Mesmers in the forums thought it would be overpowered with a 5s recharge instead of the expected 20s+. They were obviously incorrect because it is rarely used if ever. The skill simply doesn't have the game-breaking ability that people think it does. That's true even if it had 0/.25/1 stats and gave you an unlimited amount of spells to cast under it.

As I pointed out above (thanks for the correction Dargon-fixed), at best an Illusion Mesmer can only increase one's secondary attribute up to L16 instead of L12... an increase of merely four points. The other benefit I didn't mention is that you gain access to the primary attribute spells of another class, but I've long ago gone down the list and without being able to use their elites there is nothing overly powerful to be found. Certainly nothing that would make an Illu Mes significantly better than using those spells as the class' primary to begin with. So for these reasons, the changes I suggest merely move it into the realm of possibly seeing some action instead of its current state of near-zero action. If anyone still doubts me, please, post up one combo with the proposed Sig of llu that will supposedly dominate the battlefield. arredondo 17:42, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the problem with 5 spells is that there's far too many POTENTIAL combo abuses that could be unthought of atm but that could end up breaking stuff eventually. It's good to make skills that still feel 'safe'. I fully agree with you that it's too clumsy to use though. My suggestion for this signet was this personally:

0/2/5. Inspiration Magic (it feels like it). Your next 1..2..2 spells use your Illusion magic attribute. Breakpoint at 8.

So at 0 investment, you can have it same as now. But at 8 you can start chaining skills, and this already opens up a LOT more potential than it has now.

The main thing you have to worry about here is spikes. For example, with 16 Illusions, you could do a spike with Lightning Orb -> Liquid Flame, dealing around 260 damage to 60AL and casting really fast. You're not supposed to be able to cast those 2 spells on your own at any half-decent attribute, but now you could and with FC on top. I don't think you should be able to use more than 2 in a row though, cause then it seems like the combo potentials can raise too much. Even 2 is already a risk in a sense, but i think it'd still be ok overall, you're sacrificing something for it with your elite slot and even with FC, a 2s cast signet is an easy interrupt if you gun for it and having it interrupted would destroy your 2 next spells if you don't have the attribute for them.

Just the ability to chain 2 skills back to back would raise the potential of this a LOT. At 1 skill only though, it's far too clumsy in a real game. Patccmoi 18:35, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Technically you can get good damage right now if you spec high in Illu and then separately in an element to get those two skills to work well (especially if you GoEP first), but I see your general point. I think three spells however is a fair limit however because you still have to sputter with the 2s cast with a two spell limit. You are still using up your elite spot (which primary Ele builds use for energy or maximizing damage). The natural limitations will keep things effective, but not too powerful.

arredondo 00:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Liking the current version of it, though it is Disrupting Shot bait. --Epinephrine 17:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Confusing Images

change to "spell or chant"? --Life Infusion «T» 17:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Frustration

change to "spells and chants"? --Life Infusion «T» 17:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Inspiration Magic

Extend Conditions

This is the worst skill in the game. Swirly Aura tries, but doesn't come halfway to this level of awfulness. -- 03:19, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I gotta agree this is one serious contender for worse skill. It makes no sense being on Mesmers either (sure, they have Fevered Dreams and Frag already related to conditions, both of which DO NOT benefit from this and one is an elite anyway). I'm sure it's supposed to be something like 'hey it makes dazes last longer, scary stuff' but guess what, taking another elite that applies daze (or say Migraine that's pretty close in effect, even though target isn't easily interrupted you can throw all your 'Power' stuff in his face) will pretty much ALWAYS be better than taking an elite that makes daze last longer. One thing that could be interesting instead with this elite is turn it into a hex and say : '5/1/10. For 5..17..21 seconds, a maximum of one condition can be removed by a single skill on target foe'. So Mending Touch/RC/Draw would only remove one condition from the guy. It would be MUCH more interesting in assisting with Daze sticking (say a BHA dazes someone with Extend Conditions and keeps hitting him with Poison, you'd need multiple guys using removal to get rid of it) and it'd still just be a hex, meaning you can remove the hex to get rid of the effect if you don't have enough condition removal to work around it. Patccmoi 13:28, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

One of the bad skills that isn't even on the radar. Skills like Word of Healing get discussion because they used to be usable, but then there's skills which were never good and aren't seen except by skill collectors.

Extend Conditions requires you to not only give up an elite slot, but the effect is negligible. The problem, IIRC, is that Extend Conditions adds the extra percentage based on the remaining duration. Thus, if you apply a 5 second weakness on a foe, and extend it 2 seconds later, you get an additional 3 seconds, and that's from your elite slot. It might be passable, except for the reality that even if you set things up to add 10 seconds to three condition's duration, they can get removed with far more ease than it took you to apply and extend them.

How to fix? You could make the skill a hex that prevents condition removal (while hexed, conditions on target foe have a 75% chance to ignore removal) though that isn't terribly viable with the relatively easy removal of hexes. You could simply take the concept further to simply reset or change the condition duration to X seconds. You could make it AoE. This has all the markings of a skill meant simply to fill in spots on the skill list, and is among a number of less than ideal mesmer elites. Craw 18:15, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking along the lines of it yielding a straight +time to conditions instead of a percent... and having its recharge dropped substantially. 20 second recharge. What the heel. Thing wouldn't be overpowered (or normal powered) at a recharge time of TWO seconds. -- 20:41, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Making conditions last longer is NOT worth an elite slot and never will be. Conditions are extremely easy to remove and nearly never last their full duration in the first place, so why would you want to extend them? The skill design is a huge failure and it needs a complete rework to actually do anything Patccmoi 14:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Elite Hex Spell. All Conditions on target foe last 5...81...100% longer (maximum 30 seconds). For 20 seconds, target foe loses 35..70..85 health whenever a condition is removed prematurely. Damage may be a bit much, but the concept would work. --Deathwing 18:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

hehe...can you say crystal wave spike? It would be like the next evolution in fragility spiking, I like it! edit: upon thinking about it more the problem with this idea is that the damage would have to be quite high, high enough to counter the healing from a monks condition removal spell, which will usually be 100+, otherwise it still wouldnt be very effective as the target is still being healed for a significant amount when the condition is removed, and if the damaage is increased that much crystal wave spike will be just too powerful. i would suggest making prematurely removed conditions be applied to the remover of the conditions (but then one couldn't remove conditions from themselves), or possibly transfer prematurely removed conditions to the nearest ally of the foe or all foes in the area, but then one could just bring fevered dreams24.71.148.177 22:30, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

What if it damages the foe who removes the condition instead of the foe who loses the condition? -- Gordon Ecker 03:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

maybe, but then i guess it might fall in better with the scourge healing/enchantment/sacrifice line, all of which are non-elite. also you are presumably trying to kill the person you are extending the conditions on, yet you would deal damage to the person removing the conditions (probably the monk).24.71.148.177 00:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Of course it never will be - up by Fevered Dreams I suggested this skill also apply one low-powered condition at random. Making it into a hAx doesn't feel "natural" to me; to what the thing was intended to be. What I'm getting at is to get this up to the point where it's not absolutely embarrassing, not something that might become extremely powerful. Will it ever be worth it on any skillbar as even a normal, non-elite skill? Probably not, probably never. I sometimes wonder if the reason they're not bold with change is actual worry of messing something up.. or more with the negative comments people always make on forums with every change (such as the minion mastery stuff, when they added a cap and killed Verata's Sacrifice... and gave us a Blood of the Master capable of maintaining 80 minions with maximum degen for forever).. neither of those reasons I suppose... I expect this one to languish for three years before getting touched... -- 01:05, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, even with radar range and zero recharge, this skill probably still wouldn't see much use. The problem is how easily conditions can be removed. This skill either needs to make conditions unremovable, or punish for removing them. As it is, you can do anything you want with the recharge, cast time, energy cost, even duration, and it would still be crap. Oh no, that bleeding on the monk will last for 37 minutes, we are screwed now. --Deathwing 01:14, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Bleed monk, bleeeed... Conditions are actually fairly powerful in PvE - monsters have seriously messed up bars (excessive enchantment removal, above average hAx removal in some places, almost no condition removal anywhere).. but the only conditions "expensive" to apply are Blind and Daze. If it added a flat +seconds, it could maybe be useful for making condition spells with 0 attribute points in them do something - Blinding Flash without the investment in air. -- 03:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

People use conditions in PvE? I thought 90% of the groups consisted of 5 SF eles that just blasted everything to hell in about 6 seconds. Stupid delayed thoughts : /. Yeah...the only think that would get dazed are monks, and they die under 10 seconds most of the time anyway. I don't really see blind used that much in PvE, at least enough to warrant an elite slot. --Deathwing 04:08, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they do, it is suprusingly effective and cracks up enemies faster than SF does, mosnters just cant handle them. Wondering where you got that 90% groups running nothing but SF as we only have 3 slots for heroes and henchmen are not up to SFing, and partying with reall people leads to frustration most of the time. Zweistein 07:26, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't the DoA build based on 1 warrior, 3 monks, 3-5 SF eles and a necro? I don't know, left a really bad taste in my mouth the first day and never went back. --Deathwing 07:32, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is (and also yes, extend needs a complete rework). --Xeeron 15:20, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Make it in target AOE as well? This doesn't seem like a PVP skill to me, conditions are too easily removed there. Or perhaps, Extends conditions AND hexes 100%? That may be too OP then :(.--Zarfol 00:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Worst skill in GW ever. My suggestion is "Interrupt target foe. All conditions on target foe last 5..81..100% longer" Reduce recharge to 15 seconds.

If you gave this a 1s recharge and a "nearby" AoE range, it would stilll go unused. As has been stated, conditions are too easily removed in PvP and too easy to apply in PvE. Maestro Ed 11:21, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

5e, .25c, 20r. Hex spell. Target foe and all foes near your target are hexed with ~. For 20 seconds, conditions applied to creatures hexed with ~ last (whatever)% longer.Shard 20:17, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Alternatively, take the other meaning of 'extend' (as in, reach); 'For X seconds target foe is hexed with Extend Conditions, and when a condition is removed from that foe, that condition is transferred to all other foes.' 64.230.96.61 18:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Maybe make it something like: 5-1/4-2, All conditions on target foe are spread to all foes in the area as well, these conditions last for +X seconds.

Drop the max 30 seconds maybe.. that would help. Prokiller88 22:06, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

This skill fails at it's concept. In theory a great idea, but serious conditions never stay on a target for long. --Lou-Saydus 22:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

How about, "Elite Hex. For 10..20..25 seconds conditions cannot be removed from target" 10e 2c 25r Prokiller88 22:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Keystone Signet

One of those prophecies elites that everyones forgot about. I mean when was the last time that you had a signet important enough to merit using an elite to recharge it. Antiarchangel 06:02, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The sad thing is that they actually attempted to buff this skill a while back to make it more usable...and failed completely. Really this skill needs something else to make it more viable.

How about: "All of your Signets except Keystone Signet are recharged. For each signet recharged in this way, you gain xx...xx health and xx...xx energy." I know energy isn't that important for full signet builds, but it becomes a little more useful. Maestro Ed 23:37, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

A Flourish for signets indeed, that might actually be interesting. --Ckal Ktak 13:38, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

For signet builds I would match this skill to Signet of Judgement which is the primary elite signet Mesmers use. I believe that health gain idea is a good one. Most signet mesmers use holy wrath; they tend to lack the capability of self healing and cannot sustain Mantra of Inscription (no energy). I think this skill should be changed to something like 'All of your Signets except Keystone Signet are recharged and you are healed 15...105 health. All of your non-Signet skills are disabled for 17...5 seconds. For 20 seconds all signet skill you use recharge 25% faster.' --Shadetz X 07:06, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

A simple buff that could help it too (likely not enough on its own, but still) would be to reduce it to 0 recharge and DISABLE it for 10s when used. This way, you could at least skip Mantra of Inscriptions when using this. Atm the 20s recharge is balanced considering you can use MoI on it. If you throw that away, it would at least free that skill slot (free your stance too). And with 10s recharge without using MoI, it might be more interesting with stuff like Signet interrupts, etc. But still, it needs a secondary effect if you ever want to see this over SoJ (because with FC on signets, SoJ with MoI is actually a very solid elite, kinda like a 10s recharge Gale with no energy cost/exhaustion). And for whoever said you can't use MoI with Holy Wrath... use Weapon Switch? Stay on a weapon set with a shield, and switch to a +30E set to activate MoI and hide your energy back again. Holy Wrath won't touch your hidden energy, and you can recharge that hidden energy with stuff like Leech Signet interrupting a spell. I never had any problem using MoI + Holy Wrath before Patccmoi 16:08, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I like that suggestion. --arredondo 21:27, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I like it too. A lot of signet builds lack self survival, and this would actually make signet builds something attractive. (Terra Xin 10:24, 13 September 2007 (UTC))

Overpowered with 10 recharge, underpowered with 20 recharge. Conclusion ? 87.189.205.164 23:52, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

15 second recharge? >.> Jigoku 20:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

remove the "all of your non-signet skills are disabled" , 189.70.194.102 01:09, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Ether Signet

Lets compair this to GoLE shall we? At 0 req for GoLE you get 15 energy back at 0 for this you get 10. At 12 points for Ether Signet you gain 18 energy which is just 3 more that GoLE at 0... and I will not even mention the fact that GoLE has a 30 sec recharge and Ether Signet has a 45 second one... Done25 22:16, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Only time it is really usable is under Mantra of Inscriptions with a 8+ inspiration magic...

Even then it's not that great. --216.113.202.118 12:53, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

this isn't that bad only if you have mantra of inscriptions with 37% recharge, since it then drops to around 28 recharge assuming you hit the 15 energy gain breakpoint (7 inspiration). I think the only reason for the 45 recharge is the craziness in a build with mantra of inscriptions (like bonders). Unlike GoLE, this gains energy, so it can help fuel 5 energy skills as well (not just spells and not just 10 energy ones). GoLE only helps with 10 energy spells, not 5 energy spells, and requires chaining 2 of them for maximum effectiveness. If it was reduced to 25 recharge, it might be more viable without mantra of inscriptions though (and under mantra at 7 inspiration it would be +15 energy on ~15second recharge). --Life Infusion «T» 22:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Hint, If you compare any skill to GoLE you have a case. I think this skill is fine the way it is. You can't reduce the skill's recharge because then it will gimp the other energy skills in the inspiration line. I know... almost all of the line is crap but reducing recharge isn't the best idea... (Terra Xin 16:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC))

How about more into the wep switch type thing and set it at 16 if less then 2 energy gain 30? This will allow the skill to be usefull so that monk can better baintain energy and yet i think still gole is better cuz of recharge and compare this is auspicious 25 recharge? I think even if u lower recharge to 30 seconds it still wont outclass anyother energy management sources. But u might get a gimplse of it in GvG/Tourny.

It's begging for its recharge to be reduced.Prokiller88 22:13, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Hex Eater Signet

The problem with this skill is it is not viable against any form of hexes other than adjacent (and possibly nearby) AoE ones. The problem is hex AoEs are usually pointless to remove off every person in range due to being conditional (Soothing Images/Amity/painful bond/dulled weapon/Scourge Sacrifice/Air of Disenchantment/blurred Vision/rust/ulcerous lungs/vocal minority/meekness/Reckless Haste/Shadow of Fear/stone sheath). Some potent AoE hexes (Deep Freeze/Ice Spikes/Shared Burden/incendiary bonds/mark of rodgort) are not removable by this viably due to recharge and touch range. The deadly ones (snares) need to be removed, but touch range makes this not viable to remove them. Removing Arcane Conundrum, Panic, suffering, confusing images (which you can just wait out most times) is probably the only use for this since a mesmer will be with casters. This problem is compounded by the 25 recharge. 15 recharge, with a hit to the energy gain, and a removal of touch range would be nice. i.e. "Target ally and up to 2...4...5 adjacent allies each lose one Hex. You gain 0...1...2 Energy for each Hex removed this way. 0 energy (signet)/1 cast/15 recharge" --Life Infusion «T» 22:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the AoE effect should be changed to Nearby or the touch requirement should be removed. --Shadetz X 02:14, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I reckon it should be increased to nearby as well. There are some heavy hex teams out there that this skill could give a slap to. Plus it's the only AoE hex removal skill, it deserves something better.

Nah enerything about this skioll is fine remove the touch part and ill use it.

Unlinked

Shatter Storm

needs cap on recharge --Life Infusion «T» 21:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Lyssa's Balance

Discharge Enchantment is better even with 0 inspiration magic. It should probably use the Grenth's Balance mechanic (remove how many enchantments target has more than you). --Life Infusion «T» 21:37, 3 February 2008 (UTC)