User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Update20071129

Assassin

• Tanis of Forlindon*-Sin* I am Very Angry about you guys nerfing the sin builds the last three times in a row. I am a Pve/Pvp player. An all you are doing is Ruining our builds for Pve and you don't even know it. I have played this game for countless hours and I consider my self pretty good at being a sin but Nerfing the Shadow steps is making the sin alot worse every time you do it. You are supposed to get em by suprise. Duh that is what being a sin is all about. Maybe you should think of what you are doing characters in pve Don't have enough say in what you guys are doing cause (we normally make our own builds unlike some other pvp players).

Deadly Paradox

• increased Energy cost to 15.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! --71.229.204.25 01:04, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, this change was win. Still didn't introduce anything to use instead of this, but assassins will be able to manage. -Auron 01:14, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

/clap /clap Wow GJ... now DD an we're good 24.141.45.72 01:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

The balance team fixed an actual problem? I'm very impressed. Shard 09:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

YAY, no more signet spikers in HB, BOO, I can't run. --96.233.54.238 12:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Considering "signet" spikers use... signets... this nerf isnt really that big a deal... Add recharge! recharge!!! +5 or +10 second more recharge 12:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Their main damage and disruption was from spells though, they only use 2 signets tbh — Skakid9090 21:38, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Signet of Judgement, bane signet, Signet of toxic shock, res sig. Thats four. Ok back to the skill that is doing all this. 15 energy is a good nerf, it got rid of them. BUT at a big cost, IMO lower it down to 10, then raise the recharge to 30 seconds. Then shadow form runners can still run, but the annoying ass signet spiker build is dead. --96.233.54.238 22:58, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually I can still run my signet sin just fine. And I was talking to some others who use signet sin variations... they don't even use DP in their builds! This nerf does little to help the problem (as usual) and also messes up some PvE sin builds. If you wanted to truly strike the killing blow to signet sins you should nerf 3 key skills: Entangling Asp, Signet of Toxic Shock and Dancing Daggers. Make EA have longer recharge time, cause exhaustion and cost more energy. SoTS should have non-armor ignoring damage (or just less damage) and longer recharge time. DD should cost more energy and have a longer recharge time. --Hawk Skeer 03:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad ur not the skill balancer. Exuastion? lol. IMO, toxic shock should stay, DD should have a 12 second recharge and 10 energy, and EA should stay the same. If DD is dead, the build goes with it. --96.233.54.238 03:31, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Or maybe just remove DD's lead attack status and just make it "an attack". Then it can't be used to set up a chain with EA + SoTS. --Hawk Skeer 03:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Asps by itself isnt over powered, nor SoTS or DD, making DD cost 10 energy is excess. Just increase the cooldown on deadly paradox so that its not possible for it to last forever, meaning +10 second recharge11:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Ha...! This changed nothing. Half of sins in AB are still Caster sins. I hope The balance team reads this, because what needs to be done to balance the caster sins is to increase the recharge of Augury of Death: A spammable 5e deep wound? It needs to be at 20 seconds recharge, also Dancing Daggers needs to be made avoidable.201.150.78.112 18:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Enough, dont nerf us more, augury of death is fine as it is, so is Dancing Daggers. i do not longer use deadly paradox and found out that im fine without. why not whine more? --Cursed Angel 18:37, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

this change was pretty pointless, energy isnt a problem since they can just use things like BiP, EProd or Offering of Spirit... teams are still abusing them in HA and GvG... 10 energy, 3 sec duration at 12 (5 at 16), 30 recharge imo --59.167.110.164 01:26, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I think we need that change, and nerf DD to 10 energy 12 second recharge. that way, they have no speed and the lead is hard to use. --96.233.54.238 01:51, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to explain to about half of you why your suggestions are retarded.

The problem with the build was its ability to spike every 7 seconds instead of every 15, and made it nearly uninterruptable. The build didn't win because of Signet of Judgment. If it did, more non-sins would run it.

Dancing Daggers is fine, apart from a programmer error (or as anet likes to call them, "bugs") that counts it as a lead attack even if none of the daggers hit. Other than that, the damage/recharge/cost are fine.

Shadow form is not the only running skill in the game. Learn how to play.

Someone said "if DD is dead, the build dies with it." You sir, are an (breaking NPA). The point of game balance is not to delete (or make useless) every skill in the game - it is to make every skill in the game almost equally powerful, and all viable play options. The reason why every top 300 guild runs the same build skill for skill is because only 2% of the skills in the game aren't crap compared to the rest.

Augury of death is fine as it is? Unconditional ranged deep wound for 5 energy? Make dismember have bow range plx. Shard 04:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

This change was all we needed for DP. It shouldn't have ever existed in the first place. Shard 04:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

DD isnt over powered, 10 energy and 12 recharge is beyond stupid and people should stop suggesting it, an increased recharge on DD wouldnt be horrible but at best Id say 7 sec recharge (making it 5secs with DP)14:10, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Assacasters are Ranger food now. Nerf was great. --71.229.204.25 00:02, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

no, rangers suck whatsoever --Cursed Angel 00:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

You're a troll. --71.229.204.25 00:19, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

im a friendly neighborhood troll, i cant get banned --Cursed Angel 00:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I'll repeat my previous suggestion: Change the functionality. Remove the skill disable, drop it back to 5 energy, and make it affect the NEXT non-attack Assassin skill only. That gives it legitimate use while preventing its use to power these absurd spam builds. (Psst! Fix Augury of Death too! It's never been used for anything but spike gimmick trash and never will be!) Riotgear 13:01, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I previously quoted the guy above me stating best idea ever... but then i realized that it would cause even more problems if it didnt disable attack 03:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Problems like what? It wouldn't affect attacks at all, it would be useful for fast-casting/fast-recharging one non-attack ability every 10 seconds. What could you abuse that with? Riotgear 06:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Rapidly returning shadow steps, lock down spells recharging fast while still being able to spike... 00:31, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the biggest problem with DP is the fact that DD is massively overpowered. ex. Ice Spear - This hits for 70 damage at 15 attribute. At lv 15 DD hits for 105 damage in 3 packets. I really think that the 2 values should be swapped.... Done25 22:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Shadow Prison

• increased recharge time to 25 seconds.

/cry, u nert our KD's then incresed SP rech :( 24.141.45.72 01:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

WTF... seriously... WTF!!! now the only difference between SP and DP is pretty much 5 seconds? Theres no freaking point in using SP anymore, since the none elite one is ALMOST as good...12:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

And it actually snares, and those 5 seconds are big. --96.233.54.238 12:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

the 5 second increased recharge was not needed, Shadow prison wasnt even that strong, it was only useful... for an elite skill to be almost as bad as its none elite counterpart isnt right 12:23, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't mind it but it really didn't do anything. -Ensign 21:27, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

/agree. It's called siphon speed. While shadow prison is recharging u still have that.

I think that shadow prison should be brought back to 20s, and along with its non-elite counterpart, have the following effect: all your stances are disabled for 1..8..10s(SP) and 1..6..7(DP). No more insta spikes on sins. They can still get someone off-guarded and spike but now people can react. And, imo, an elite that shadow-steps and snares an opponent while still disabling own stances is still worthy to use. - Kiji 01:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Then theyd just use their stance right before SP. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.78.176.37 .

What part of ASSASIN dont you get? they run in kill a guy and leave. ! assasins vs guy + monk = phail. None of this disable stance shi*24.141.45.72 04:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

"You lose all stances. All your stances are disabled for..." - Kiji 12:50, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Stop trying to make all these stupid changes. Do it properly, or not at all. The problem is it is a shadow step + snare, the way to fix it is hit one of these.. — Skuld 13:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that the best starters have always been hex-requiring ones, and that used to be a clunky condition. Now there's a 1/4-sec cast no-aftercast skill that puts you right on your target, keeps them from kiting you, and provides you that primer hex. How convenient. SP is a stupid skill, but the problem is on both sides of that equation. Actually Jungle Strike is the biggest culprit right now. Riotgear 13:13, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Shadow Step to Target foe. Foe 1...10 seconds target foe moves 0..66% slower. 66% at 15. THAT or gimp the shadow step by making it fail if the hex fails, thus making hex breaker stop it completely. But seriously...Something like shadow step to target foe, all of you skills are disabled =0 is a rediculous idea. Weaken it, not ruin it. --96.233.54.238 01:54, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Shadow stepping to enemies will always be imba, no matter how you change these skills. The focus on these is to make them counterable, not bad. I can see this skill at 5 energy, 20 recharge, but only lasting like 2 seconds. People only use it for the opening attack anyway. Picking a random number on the skill display and making it bigger doesn't balance skills. Changing what makes them good balances skills. Shard 04:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

(reset) Is there any truth to the opinion that it got +5 more recharge to make Aura of Displacement more viable? It does not seem logical to me, as this does not make AoD more popular in any way. Now people will use the non-elite Dark Prison for a similar effect PLUS free up their elite slot, and this is quite a good example why this should stay at 20 seconds. SP already got nerfed with the changes to black lotus strike indirectly, leave it at that. It is no longer Sin build no.1 since the previous nerfs. --Longasc 07:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

You're trying to apply logic to this...? IMO, the 0...66% suggestion is the only one that makes sense, since you can't scale shadow stepping. lmao You shadow step halfway to target foe... xD I can even see them doing something dumb like that too... Ugh.RitualDoll 18:24, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Frees up the elite slot for what? If Shadow Prison were deleted from the game, people would probably run the same bars with Dark Prison and no elite. If there was an elite worth using, it would already be seeing use. Riotgear 11:30, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Moebius... thats an elite worth using possibly over SP 00:37, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Making it a spell would make it unbalanced ? Since most SP Sins bars use the hex spell functionality.. And with that, lower the recharge, the snare duration (making it a fix duration) and scaling the speed snare? - I'm asking. - Kiji 10:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Moebius is a good elite. It's not good for 123456win spike though. There are no elite offhands that skip leads except Iron Palm which is slower under IAS. Shattering Assault doesn't provide the KD on the first or huge damage or DW on the second attack, and there are no other elite duals. Seriously, look at any SP bar with Dark Prison instead of SP. Now try to think of ways to improve it. There's only one: Replace Dark Prison with SP. 165.170.201.197 04:06, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Mesmer

Clumsiness

• increased recharge time to 7 seconds; decreased duration to 4 seconds.

I like the tradeoff weaker clumsiness for more powerful empathy and overload. 70.132.2.120 01:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Good that something was buffed to offset clumsiness nerf. Kind of curious that we're taking a half step back from active play though. Craw 01:16, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Eh 01:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't like it. It should be at least the same duration as Diversion, Guilt and Shame. Lightblade 09:52, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Now its somewhat the same damage as empathy striking twice except the interupt on the attack, much easier to avoid but less effective to remove as it only last 4 seconds. --Cursed Angel 10:06, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Uh casting a spell/spell is pretty ACTIVE whereas casting is a passive action since you don't need to do anything once you are on autoattack. Why would it need to be the same duration as diversion/guilt/shame?--Life Infusion «T» 02:58, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

They Finally listened to the community and dropped the duration... *hugs izzy*12:21, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Cry of Pain

• decreased recharge time to 12 seconds.

Don't get me wrong, i like this buff. Always use that one on my Ele if i do not have to go /Mo. Was the best Nuke in game before, now got even better. I just wonder why buffing this one while both Ele PvE skills are still useless. Is it really only because ppl still do not have realized that especially in high lvl PvE Mesmers outnuke Elementalists easily? Well i guess for that you will have to reduce recast to 2 sec or give them a PvE Meteor Shower :o). I just find it funny that with introducing PvE skills Elementalists have become the shutdown class while Mesmers now are the Nukers. Beetlejuice 15:22, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

If there was an issue with Cry of Pain, it's that there aren't any Mesmer hexes that you really want to be using in combination with this. If you were putting Mesmer hexes on for whatever reason I'd put this on every caster in a build. Changes to make Ether Nightmare viable would do a lot more for the viability of this skill. -Ensign 21:26, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to put this on my Fevered Dreams sin build once I cap it. All conditions in the area and an AoE 100 damage.

Also, probably meant to compensate for the MoR nerf a while back. To really buff this skill, give it a cool effect when it hits a foe. Make it all mesmery so the team knows where some of that damage is coming from.--Skye Marin 07:28, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I allways liked the epidemic effect :o) Beetlejuice 13:08, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Don't like Fevered Dreams, last time i checked the duration is not refreshed if you apply a condition that is already on the target. Beetlejuice 13:08, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

I always use something like Mind Wrack, Shrinking Armor or Web of Disruption to trigger if i am alone. Best way of course is to just have a mesmer around with Arcane Conundrum/Ether Nightmare. Beetlejuice 13:08, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Chaos Crap Storm and other underpowered skills need lower recharge as well. 87.189.253.129 17:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Empathy

• increased damage to 10..55.

Good to see some old skills get buffed 24.141.45.72 01:34, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

This kicked my as in HM as it is. Come on now...--96.233.54.238 12:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Then don't attack through it lol. 165.199.5.192 14:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

This was dangerous as a PvP hex before. Now it's pretty ridiculous; if hex builds ever flare up again this will be a problem. -Ensign 21:30, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Wammos might have to bring Holy Veil Invincible Rogue 03:17, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

This is too passive to be this powerful. >.> The same goes with Insidious Parasite being too strong in the lower levels of PvP. Not that Izzy cares. Does he even play GW anymore? RitualDoll 23:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Anymore? 72.235.48.41 09:02, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

stop hating on izzy... Emapthy probably got a buff more than it needed given its passive nature. I think a better thing to do would've been to split the damage. 66% passive and the other 33% active (when an attack skill is used) to punish attack skill spam *cough needling shot*. For example: damage 5...30, 1...12 additional damage whenever an attack skill is used.--Life Infusion «T» 03:01, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

WTF?! JESUS CHRIST. C'mon, honestly the meta right now is hex low and teams aren't equipped to fight this sort of pressure. Especially in lower levels of PvP. This obviously doesn't affect high ranked guilds and players but the fact is that the meta STILL applies to people who are less experienced in PvP. They see one hex that can literally dominate an opponent in the current meta, and what in the hell are they supposed to think? I agree that hexes should find their way back into the meta but this is just ridiculious. Lower the damage, lower the duration, up the recharge to like 20s or up the energy cost. Any of those would work... Sj1608 02:14, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

lol You think he cares about low PvP? That's what I try to agrue on most of his changes, but he's too busy trying to please his high PvP buddies. Why bother anymore? It's like talking to a wall, you can make all the sense you want but no one is listening. This nerf was uncalled for, and it probably won't affect the GvG meta at all, but it'll make it so I can't use melee in RA anymore. RitualDoll 18:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Know that this is a long time since the update, but I would still have to agree with this being far too powerful for a passive 'fire and forget' shutdown. Before, we were really given a choice of attacking through it and being punished for it or waiting it out for a bit. Now the choice is wait it out, or die. This really breaks random arenas even more, especially for that large majority of teams without a hex removal. It takes a lot of skill out of mesmer bars in that you can cast this on a melee/martial character, and then basically forget about him for the next 15 seconds or so, while you concentrate on someone else. --118.90.40.163 17:23, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Overload

• increased non conditional damage to 5..40.

Total damage need to be at least the same as Power Spike. Lightblade 09:53, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It has a quarter of PS' recharge and unconditional damage to boot. Let's not. --71.229.204.25 09:54, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

It's still ps without the interupt, it has to hit on a spell where ps is a much better option, try to use it before ps, its what i do. --Cursed Angel 10:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

That's only going to work on spells with cast times of 2 seconds and up. But yeah, for those this + PS together could rack up a good amount of damage. 69.137.78.47 10:41, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

What about adding conditional energy gain, energy loss or energy stealing?

This skill has the same problem as the original Spiritual Pain. If it is buffed too much you end up with armor-ignoring spikes on a fast cast. Mesmers shouldn't be made into armor-ignoring spike machines with interrupts and shutdown. --Life Infusion «T» 03:04, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

also, comparison with Wastrel's Demise is probably a good idea --Life Infusion «T» 03:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Can someone remind me what the damage was before the buff? And also, mesmers, including mine, already used a build with overload, wrastrels demise, this kinda made them super powerful. As much as I like the buff, I think it is a bit much for the Mesmer who is supposed to Mesmerize the enemy, not punch it in the face repeatedly ^_^. It's nice they have a pure damage attack, all professions should have at least one, but at the energy cost and recharge, this just doesn't feel like a mesmer anymore ya know?Ajc2123

Before the buff, the unconditional damage could only get up to 20 at 12 Dom. And seeing as this has nothing to do with punching, I don't see where you're going. This is Mesmer enough, there is unconditional damage to make up for the fact that it doesn't interupt. RitualDoll 18:27, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Just think of one mesmer alone, With Overload, Echo chains it, Arcane Conundrum or Frustration. And just for the heck of it, slaps on empathy for those melee's. Just one mesmer, thats a possible 270 armor ignoring damage in a matter of seconds, with the lowest EP cost I've ever seen. And thats only 5 of his skills. And the punch in the face was a metaphor.

And if a team of 4 goes into AB with this *Shrudders* 1080 damage to one target, or 480 to a noncaster, which is much more then half of most people's health. You wouldnt need a healer.Ajc2123

The dmg on this skill should be 100% conditional. The real purpose is to deal big damage to "high powered" spell (ie, meteor shower and the like). It should just be "Spell. If that foe was casting a spell, target foe takes X damage." Cooldown would probably need to be lowered to 2 sec, or X is just a big number.--8765 00:18, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Bug Fixes

• Fixed a bug that caused Black Lotus Strike to fail if the target was not Hexed.
• Fixed a bug that caused Magebane Shot to disable non-spell skills.

I was having so much fun with that bug... I really don't know if it was that overpowered considering Distracting shot does a 20 second disable --Life Infusion «T» 03:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

2 rez signet disable in RA was fun, one kill, then gg :_ --Rayd 18:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Miscellaneous

• Updated an old version of the Diessa Icon to use the most current statistics for that item. The earlier version contained a +10% enchantment-lengthening bonus that is not supposed to exist on focus items.

I feel sorry for the people who bought this for absurdly huge prices. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 05:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't feel sorry for people abusing things that cannot be made with PVP menu. --Life Infusion «T» 03:06, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't feel sorry for people who spend a lot of time to create a PvE character that can do something 'just a little bit better' than a PvP character can. I still feel that someone who takes the time to play through the whole campaigh should deserve a small boost in PvP, like +1 health or something. Nicky Silverstar 07:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Then you didn't understand the spirit of GW PvP, yet. - TeleTeddy 14:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I do understand the PvP spirit, but I'm sure you can understand why I feel players that have spent several months creating their characters (instead of through a menu in 5 minutes) should get some kind of reward. To be practical, that should just be different skins, not different stats. Nicky Silverstar 16:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

PvP should be based on your ability to play PvP, not your willingness to grind monsters. That's the entire reason PvP characters were created in the first place, why the weapon mod normalization happened in the past, and why the item creation screen got expanded. Riotgear 11:35, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Then why did they get acces to all kinds of PvE armors? That is something I don't get. Easy acces to stats, ok, but easy acces to all skins... Nicky Silverstar 12:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

They got tired of everyone lookin EXACTLY the same 16:28, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

They are Armours...they are NOT "PvE Armours!" So therefore it is obvious that PvP characters should be able to aquire them. --ChronicinabilitY 17:16, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all, it's totally NOT easy to get PvP reward armor skins. You have to buy armor somewhat-times, then you have to buy higher class armor even-more-somewhat times, and then you can finally get obsi armor (which looks like crap). Second, the value of the armor is not effected at all, since the PvP-ers can't show it off in the ToA, Kamadan or where-ever. For all the time we had to look like everyone else, as if we were some Zaishen NPC's, I think this was a nice addition for the PvP-ers. BlazeRick 12:48, 8 January 2008 (UTC)