User talk:Regina Buenaobra/Archive Game Related Topics/Aug 2008

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Question to ArenaNet and the skill rebalancers.

Hello Regina, hi guys, I want to ask the skill rebalancers a question about SF. Not about changing it, I just want to ask why did ANet even buff SF IN THE FIRST PLACE? I mean for the next 2-5 months or even longer, ectos are going to be 1-1.7k cheaper than they were before the buff. I don't think Izzy hadn't thought about the fact that there are both assassin and elementalist recharge time reductors, which could lead to making SF 100% upkeepable. If ANet was planning on lowering the ecto prices they should have just de-nerfed EW, at least you need SOME skill to farm by trapping. All the A/E and E/A's out there are just brainless monkeys trying to press skills 1-8 and profit from it. The surprise is, it works. And those people who made the other builds for Chaos Plains A/E farming don't have much more than Koss's IQ (famous joke). SF will be imbalanced, always. I know it takes 30 energy to turn on the 3 skills needed for its perma-ing, but Air of Superiority and Glyph of Lesser Energy can take care for the rest of the build. I really get frustrated that people with real skill and gaming experience who use builds which have counters and require more than just smacking the numbers on your keyboard get less profit than those monkeys I talked about earlier. So I want ANet or people who can figure why this is to answer me-why did you ruin GW's economy for the next few months when you knew people would clearly notice the perma-ability of SF in its current state? Your recent updates were a good idea but people have gone so low as to use Burning Speed and Frigid Armor to farm! That is just not cool, not normal, and most of all, requires no skill. I am happy with the game's current state (with little exceptions) and GW has become my favorite game. I am looking forward to reasonable answers, thank you. Ninjas In The Sky 13:47, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Out of curiousity, why is it that the perma-sf build is considered to require no skill but other builds are? I can see that there are differences, certainly. And perhaps that there are fewer counters to the SF build, but what is it that differentiates the sf farming build from other farming builds that it manages to acquire the label "requires no skill"? Not to say that its wrong, per se, more that I wonder why its come down that way. Lojiin 17:45, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

For the perma-SF all u need to do is press keys 1-8 every 30s. The build has no counters. They took care of the 55's in UW, but they're letting this bugger stay. Ninjas In The Sky 07:12, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Of course, she won't answer me. Neither will ANet. I am very angry. Ninjas In The Sky 07:16, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Just because she hasn't replied yet doesn't mean she won't. You do have to consider what she has to go through, meetings, brain storming, creating GW2, reading wiki, reading fanforums, reading her bosses emails and responding to them (she ultimately has to answer to them because they pay her not us), reading our emails, getting in touch with other CRMS of other countries, having an e-meeting with them and getting official response from the honchos and the dev team. As such you have to be more patient because there's a whole lot of other pressures she has to deal with than Gaile did. 07:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

"The build has no counters." - I seem to recall in the game updates that they had explicitly put in signet of disenchantment onto mobs in the UW to counter SF. So it would seem that it is more appropriate to say "fewer" than "no". "All you need to do is press keys 1-8 every 30s." Having never tried the perma-SF in UW, I don't know if that's true, or not, but I'd rather doubt it. Just from the skills you'd need to have at least 30 energy to pull of the SF combo, so I would guess that it does require at least a little thought. Perhaps you can be more thorough/logical in your explanation in addition to expressing your opinion on it? Lojiin 18:47, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Perma-SF with cons does take a little practice to get it right because of certain conditions that needs to be considered. Two of the things I've experienced personally are the timing of DP + SF or GoS + SF and the fact that you barely have energy left to keep certain things up. It does take more considerable brains as to using Ursan where you can just spam 1 to 4 mindlessly. As well as the runs at UW does need more thought than just going in and killing every single thing you see or that pops out. Why do you think there are less perma-SF than Ursans out there? Renin 20:13, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Ursan is different, you can't solo farm with it. If you use the wiki version of perma SF to farm chaos plains (should work, many ppl I know play and use it) you will have a steady amount of energy. SF was good the way it was, but ANet made it so powerful that it's funny.

reduce duration to 5..17..21 and remove the damn 50% tag, and bam its fixed and now perma sf is less brainless Shadowshock 20:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Every time I read an anti-PermaSF post I get upset. First, It took brains to figure out the Chaos Planes UW PermaSF after the buff. It doesn't take a dummy to figure out a way to exploit the game, it takes someone who is good enough with the game mechanics to put two and two together and get four. Stop blaming those who use PermaSF, blame the skill balancer who obviously didn't think things out so far or perhaps is overworked to the point he can't keep up with GW and GW2. The problem is Anet's, not A/E PermaSF Chaos Planes. Second why are you labeling this build as "takes no skill" and "has no counters", if you use your brain like the person who originally came up with PermaSF did, you'd see there are counters that require good timing and you'd see that PermaSF does require good timing to execute. The new PermaSF UW Chaos Planes build in its present state is fair and should not be changed. If you noticed, the price of your valuable Ectos is going up after the recent nerf. Also anyone who has used the two builds (prenerf and postnerf) will tell you that if you hit 1-8 every 30s two things will happen: you'll waste your time and you'll make a 30 min Chaos planes run a lot longer than it has to be. Stop QQing about something you don't know about or haven't tried. At least try the build before you mindlessly speak about something you obviously are too proud to try and critique correctly.

Skill balancing is just as much an art as it is a science. Sometimes you try something and it doesn't work, and you need to go back, re-evaluate, do more testing, and tweak the changes. And yes, sometimes changes have unexpected effects on the in-game economy. It's difficult to anticipate every single result that could occur when they balance a skill, but they aren't perfect and players will always find ways to surprise the designers with their creativity and ingenuity. We're sorry that you're not satisfied with the results of the balancing, maybe the game update this week will be more satisfactory. Maybe not. --Regina Buenaobra 16:34, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

July mAT - call it off

The lag is unbearable. Teams are losing by default because only 4 players load. Teams that are gaining the upper hand lose it when one of their players err7's and dies in the acid traps. It was a terrible idea to make the double HB rewards on the same weekend as a mAT, the servers have never been capable of performing well under that strain. Add in the thousands of people on obs mode, and this mAT is pretty unplayable. I dunno whether restarting it on another day (like, say, one that doesn't have a trillion people doing hero battles simultaneously) or just canceling it would be better, but I'd feel very bad if the gold trim went to a guild that just lucked out by not having anyone err7.
Seriously. Dei Victorae? Amazing players, been silver trim several times in the past, and they lose first round because only four people load? Cut me some slack. That's ANet's fault, not the players'. Don't continue to punish them for your mistakes. -Auron 17:02, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

And the age-old "prove you're a better team by only playing with six guys" tactic... classic, I must say. I thought this was supposed to be some sort of a competitive event, not a giant game of roulette. EDIT: Paragons are awesome, but single paragons don't do so well. Some teams don't even get a single paragon :/

Holy cow, a full match! Pity it's just back to wounding strike spam with gimmicky signet mesmers, but at least it's back at all. Sometimes. -Auron 17:15, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Needs a rollback there, ppl taking -50s for nothing and not being able play monthly just sucks. Our guild spent the whole night trying to play the mAT, only to get ALL 6 matches with 0 players in our team loaded, no RPs, only bad times and frustration. I can't see why tourny wasn't cancelled, any admins observing mATs? 91.154.7.85 22:33, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

im not gonna lie quite a genious idea putting the 2 laggiest events that occur for hb during the same weekend. the mat is always laggy and it sux getting err7 out of games yr about to win losing XXXkeys. And i dont even play on hb weekends cause i nvr load. and now their the same weekend gj anet now im not playing the mat cause i dont want -300rating cause of err7s. /sigh their was truely alot of thought put into making hb weekend on the weekend of the mat. 68.41.160.15 00:16, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Auron, your undying efforts are legendary. Unforutnately, so is ANet's incompetence. 99.235.230.36 16:29, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

It's already a well known fact that 90% of the people making decisions at arenanet are dumbasses. I can think of about ten more stupid things anet has done in the past.

Update Notes: Began triple gold chest drop weekend!

Same day update notes: Fixed a bug that deleted all chests from the game.

or how about this one?

Update Notes: Fixed a bunch of factions pve quests.

Update notes 3 days later: Fixed a bug introduced in the last update that prevented Ghostly Heroes from accepting relics in pvp.

My personal favorite, when I first realize izzy doesnt play GW:

Update: Set the maximum attack sapeed cap at 133%.

6 Months later:

Update: Fixed a bug that allowed players to bypass the attack speed cap.

This one made me laugh:

Update Notes: Did some really cool stuff to pve

Same day update notes: Fixed a bug that prevented players from logging into the game.

ArenaNet should rename their company to BadFailJokeNet. ~Shard 01:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Funny how A.Net comes crashing down when they least expect it. The servers where bad like this, but it never affected PvP so hard...it was just a matter of time. Dominator Matrix 01:17, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Shard forgot the classic. Pure proof that there is no testing before release. -- NUKLEAR IIV 12:13, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Hah wow. A little piece of me just lost some hope for GW2. Vael Victus 14:04, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

{{ri}Bugs happen. In ANet's case, most bugs will go unnoticed by casual players. But I remember a bug that made it impossible to continue past the middle mission of the game, and they fixed it but in doing so made old savegames no longer compatible. So everybody had to start from scratch. What we have here is a very stable game, with some skills not always working as they should. Big deal. Log in errors were, according to the above, fixed the same day. Hardly cause to cry fail. -- Alaris 15:08, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Lol?

Losing 8 hours of gameplay sucks. I really hate that WoW goes down for 8 hours straight each week (more so because I'm on the east coast now and it's down until 2 pm instead of 11 am). That's a failure of the company.

The fact that there are bugs doesn't mean that putting bugs in the game is allowable. These are easy-to-test, easy-to-fix things (such as "implemented deldrimor weapons --> fixed a bug that made it so you couldn't upgrade deldrimor weapons - did they even have a test character walk up, purchase, and mod a del shield before the live update?), and they happen way too often (and in many cases don't get fixed nearly fast enough - see login problems).

-- Armond Warblade 15:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Sadly for Arenanet words like "fail", "loosers" and other wonderful adjectives are most of what they hear. No one even knows for sure yet what happened but the posters here are always quick to scream bloody murder and tell Anet how bad they are at everything. It must be nice to be perfect like these players are. I'm just glad I don't work in one of the datacenters right now because I can bet there's a just a wee bit of pressure trying to find out what did happen.

There is no excuse, even for the vieled jabs let alone the blatant name-calling that goes on here. I'd love to see any one of these people do just a little bit to help find out what happened. Silverleaf alone was the one person who at least posted something above that was slightly helpful. For the most part, all these people do is bitch. It's no wonder Arenanet staff bite their tongues, and I for one, applaud them for being able to not exercise their ability to ban people here. I know quite a few other games where these kind of comments result in losing one's account.

Ghosst • Talk • 15:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Jesus christ you guys bitch and moan too much. "Not enoughs kill updates" "oh god they never test these updates" Shut the fuck up, I don't understand why you see yourself as intelligent game balancers, you're just annoying. — Skakid 17:03, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Dude 4chan is back now. You can go troll /v/. :o Vael Victus 21:29, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Putting bugs in comes with changing and upgrading the game. If you change anything in the code, there's potential for a bug to creep in, potentially even a bug that has unforseen consequences. And remember, when you're testing to find a bug, you're essentially trying to find any possible way that the thing you made could break. It's not a trivial job - it can easily be more work than coding it in the first place. -- Alaris 17:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Uhm, you guys just totally missed Aurons' point?

It's not wheter there are bugs in the game or not it's about a.net's response to customer issues and their game management.

I agree with Auron, there should've been a swift response to the problem, however, they just didn't want to or couldn't respond to it (be it technical or whatsoever hindrances) during the mAT. Now, I can understand that it is to late to take action and a server rollback in order to restore guilds' ratings etc is kind of utopian.

Anyhow, even if they (anet) can't handle problems like this mAT lagfest because their staff-count or the game engine simply aren't capable of doing so, they should've addressed the issue on their public website (guildwars.com) or in the login screen. Just to let players know that they themselves know that there was something wrong. The only thing one sees when visiting their webpage is this huge bonus mission pack ad and 3 month old 'headlines' instead of useful information and this is really sad.

I don't expect a.net to give a 100% perfect product to their customers but a better distribution of their ressources (read: don't hold 2 or more very important events during the same period as your servers don't allow it - just split the events and hold them on seperate 'dead' weekends) and better or at least more visible communication with the community would be appreaciable.

It's really the communication thing that bugs me, and keep in mind that there is only a small amount of people visiting fan forums and wiki. And most people only use like one forum so it doesn't do any good to put up important information on one forum only.

I hope they have some in-game-news feature in gw2 where players can get a ton of info that'd be linked from developers or elite fan forums. Dev-to-Player communication is like non-existant in gw1. We have a ton of players on wiki and forums writing letters and proposals and balancing ideas but there is hardly ever a response.

I see that responding to everything would be a ton of work but that shows that there needs to be a better system (and maybe more CR staff members for gw2) which allows easier and faster communication. However, some major things could be adressed - no need to handle everything - just the major problems (like the 'failed' mAT). Also, there's no need to write huge essays about why and how and godknowhat something went wrong, as I said: A short notice on the login screen would be enough to show players that the devs know what's going on.

So, a.net folks, stop writing long (frog) talks (or nothing for that matter) and start communication with your customer-base on a more notable level, thanks. --84.134.249.14 19:16, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Communication needs to be a bit faster, more fluid, and connect more directly to every player. Every time I boot up Eve Online, the have a small column of news and such (kinda like GW's login-screen announcements) that gives and needed news such as update notices and technical problems and such in a quick few sentences and is done. The login-screen announcements are a powerful tool, better use should be made of them. It wouldn't have to be very detailed, as those that want detailed are already here on the wiki and forums asking for it and generaly get it anyway, but the vast majority fo the player-base knows nothing of what goes on on the ever so mysterious wiki and fan forums. --Wolf 19:28, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

The best bug PvE wise (the SoGM for PvP one was already said) was when they added stables or w/e for heroes, but the best part was was that it was bugged, and you could remove the pets of other people in your party on day 1, so people would basically destroy completely evolved level 20 pets off of people's heroes. I lol'd. But on a more serious note, ArenaNet has a surprising track record with bugs (in a good way) compared to anybody else in the MMO genre really. DarkNecrid 20:12, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Not every player even sees the login screen announcements, I usually use the shortcut commands to automatically log in, so I usually only read the log in messages here on the wiki. 75.146.48.190 20:41, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

But one way or another, I'd say 99% of the players WILL read the log-in announcements one wya or another. --Wolf 20:42, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

I've been calling for the log-in screen to be used as a more effective information tool for ages now, but clearly Arenanet doesn't see it as an effective use of their time and resources. It would be a tremendous help. Surely, why aren't they? If I had warning there was server/lag/disconnection issues before logging in it would save me so much time and frustation. That, and update information would be announced so more people will be informed. Developer Updates etc. Most of the Guild Wars population isn't aware of 90% of the stuff that goes on with Guild Wars. 000.00.00.00 21:40, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

i agree 100% with 000.00, even if they were just links that redirected you to the wiki page it would be a huge help.75.165.125.252 03:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone realized Regina has not made a single response to this thread yet? 99.235.230.36 20:20, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Regina hasn;t posted anything on the wiki since monday. --Wolf 21:18, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

It's funny how these people whine and say "ArenaNet Fail", yet they depend on their game for hours of fun, and it's even funner seeing the same group of people (like they are the only GW players and ArenaNet has some sort of obligation towards them) doing all the whining. --MageMontu 07:18, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

hmmm....Whining is a expression of frustration. Players do have a small right to request assistance from Arenanet and it's representatives when the service(s) fail. The extreme flaming is unwarrented indeed. Still..i have read somewhere 2 event's where held in the same weekend..maybe the advice from this is that that is less-than-good planning. The lagg for the mAT weekend was so bad though complete teams didn't load at all...and that is highly good sportmanship and bad promotion for the lore of guildwars. --Silverleaf 07:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

@Mage; You're so wrong it hurts. I can't play this game anymore because it isn't fun. Which is a damn shame, because it was one of the best games I'd played - it had promise. A combination of the game getting old and the incredibly poor decisions made by ANet killed any incentive to PvP, which was the only thing left that I found remotely fun.

And yes, we payed $180+ for this game. I, at least, didn't pay $180 to have it fucked up. You're evidently okay with playing a bad game, but I have no interest in it - to keep me playing (and to keep my interest for long enough to get GW2), ANet has an obligation to make the game fun. Why do they have community reps if listening to player suggestions isn't an issue? Do you want them to just read the retarded OMG GW2 NEEDS MOAR RACES AND GRIND TITLES OMG threads that people post instead of the "fix your broken tournaments, and be sure never to schedule two huge events at once if the server can't handle it" threads?

Since you have such low standards for the game, and since our interest is only to improve it, why do you spend your time trolling/chastising people that call for improvements? Do you want the game to get better or not? Generally, when people want "improvements," that doesn't mean they want it to get worse. So you basically have nothing to worry about. Either ANet ignores the advice and keeps their game as it is (and you're happy), or they heed the advice and improve the game (and you're happier). What's your problem with that situation?

I understand it is ANet. I'm not expecting amazing changes, or even something resembling balance to come back to the game. I just don't want to resign myself to failure, so I keep posting in the hopes that, eventually, one of my comments might inspire change. Or at least prevent future stupidity. -Auron 07:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... How much "right" do we have to complain about a Free-to-play Game even though we have payed "entry" fee?--Silverleaf 07:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Seeing as we're the playerbase? Every right. Who the hell are they going to sell to if they chase the players away? Family members? GW2 is going to flop without an assload of support from the gw1 crowd. People picking it up to try it out won't make as much of an impact as the however-many hundreds of thousands of players that play gw1, and those people are less likely to stick around. If ANet makes a good impression with gw1, people are more likely to buy 2 - even if, at launch, GW2 is rough, the gw1 crowd would stick around, sure that it would improve. If ANet continues how they're going now, making seemingly thoughtless changes and abolishing the entire concept of "balance," people won't have enough faith to stick around. -Auron 07:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I play to have fun, like all of you should, but for some weird reason you people are considering Guild Wars as a major part of life. Who cares Ursan is ruining the GAME's economy, i don't care as long as my real life economy is balanced, Who care that a shadow form assassin can solo underworld, as long as I'm enjoying myself I don't care what other ppl are doing (and no, even though i am a PvE person I never soloed UW and I rarely (make it Ultra Rare) use Ursan). So there's a bug? Notify Anet about it and wait, There's a skill Nerf? Adjust your build on the newly nerved skill, or better, be creative and create another build. --MageMontu 07:55, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Pretty sure I said it before; just because your standards are low doesn't mean everyone's are. Furthermore, nobody's complaining about skills being nerfed or the economy being ruined. Try to read the topic before responding next time, thanks :< -Auron 07:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

If you read my first respond, I said that these people are complaining about everything, including skills and economy. So your suggestion just backfired, and this is my last respond cause this topic went way out of topic. --MageMontu 08:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

@ Mage...way to go... :). Just don't be too hars.

@ Auron. Mages point of view just differs from yours. You both have a right to. Its not "low standards" from a ruling point-of-view. Just a different oppinion. Common the both of you.

Enjoying the game for the specific purposes you both bring is better warrented if there is less lagg and a faster responce towards in-game exploits. With the current priorities Arenanet has not all is possible by individuals demands. Work together to mediate a request. For one a bit faster with a bit patience from the other. Lagg doesn't help getting another 5 million co-players to play this game. Neither does a community that flames each other. --Silverleaf 08:07, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm going to break my promise, but at least this has to do with those lag spikes. Regina already stated up there that the issue was unexpected, and it didn't happen to only Guild Wars, but to City of Heroes aswell. So this issue is not from Anet's side. BTW silverleaf, thanks for making it clear about my "low standards" as it was called. PM: Oops my bad about what happened to this talk page, I must have hit something from the keyboard without noticing. --MageMontu 08:28, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Respect you both and both views is all. Words not spoken are sometimes misunderstood. :). From both your userpages you look like awesome players with a passions for GW. Like many (me too) :). I just didn't have problems while playing CoH that weekend. Am glad they are investigating this specific server issue but Europeans have been disconnected more often collectively than just this weekend. That is often "swept-under-the-rug" :/. --Silverleaf 08:32, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

"Who cares Ursan is ruining the GAME's economy, i don't care as long as my real life economy is balanced, Who care that a shadow form assassin can solo underworld, as long as I'm enjoying myself I don't care what other ppl are doing" is low standards, not a difference in viewpoint. If you realize the problem exists but don't care, your standards are low. If you don't realize the problem exists, you may have a different viewpoint. Many players that are new to the game, for example, aren't able to compare it to the Guild Wars I know and love - pre-factions, even post-factions, where balance wasn't a foreign concept, and where the hard areas of PvE were still hard. Before ANet decided to throw the entire profession system out the window. Before ANet decided they preferred grind over skill.

Either way, I'd really like Regina (or somebody from ANet, for chrissakes) to respond with a serious answer. The most attention this issue's gotten is regina posting a "oh we might have had 2 hours where maybe server lag might have been a very slight problem" thing on guru. They haven't fessed up to failing horribly by scheduling the hero badles lagfest in sync with the monthly tournament - and them fessing up is all I want to see, because it lets me know that they are trying to improve. As it is, I see them just plodding on like nothing happened, and that shakes what's left of my faith in them. -Auron 10:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Going back to those people that just go "lolol it is not ANets fault it was an unexpected server lag". Well, so what? Did ANet really have the brains to even risk their servers on an HB/mAT weekend? We all know their servers aren't the most reliable, and ANEt knows it too - there are serveral mishaps in the past that prove that. And server breakdown or no server breakdown, putting every noob and their dog in HB at the same time the ladder guilds are playing in an important tournament is a dumb decision that will cause lag. It just happened that things fucked up even more; it's like when you go to finish an important project at the last minute and your computer breaks down. You can't blame it on the computer; you have to blame it on yourself for putting it off. Similarly, ANet can't blame any of this on the servers - the real issue is that they were stupid enough to put so many people on the servers at the same time an important event was happening. If they, perhaps, didn't schedule two massive events on the same weekend, and if they perhaps did put an announcement up on network problems, then the community would have taken it as an unforeseeable, unpreventable incident, and those are just part of life.

But that's not it. ANet made a mistake, and we all make mistakes - we're all human. But after mistakes, if we want to redeem ourselves, we go about doing that by repairing the damage we did, apologizing, etc.. ANet did none of that. Regina comes around on Monday, dropping a short note that they were aware of a server problem and that they're investigating it. That's it? No big apology to all the guilds who ratingbombed because they lagged out to lower-ranked guilds? No plan to take action to reverse the damage done, for instance, stopping the tournament during the weekend or rolling back the ladder immediately after and reschedulling the tournament? No, none of that. Instead, it's like someone gets shot and the police come to investigate who was the murderer, while leaving the victim bleeding to death on the sidewalk. 99.235.230.36 13:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

The investigations made by the network operations center suggest that the problems were due to issues with a public internet provider between Germany and Los Angeles, which does not provide any direct services to NCsoft. The inability to load into the tournaments, lag, and network problems were not due to server problem on the ArenaNet side.

However, the critique that the mAT could have been halted in the middle, the results of the matches that already took place discarded, and the tournament rescheduled is a valid one. The personnel that were on-site at ArenaNet at the time were unable to contact the team members who could "pull the switch" to stop the tournament midstream, though every effort was made to do so. A discussion has opened on what the process should be in the event this happens again. What happened was unforseen, and we apologize that this occurred and impacted the tournament. --Regina Buenaobra 18:24, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

lots of lag happened on the july mat. 71.230.145.170 04:56, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Is there really an alternative to grind ?

I understand that ANet want to reward players dedication to the game (at least for those who dont have a quite demanding full time job). If the key to access thoses rewards is knowledge, that knowledge either land on wiki in no time, or cant be exploited because you dont always have acess to all campaigns skills. If the key to acess those rewards is not knowledge but time spent doing the same thing over and over again, it becomes grind. If the key to access those rewards is neither based on knowledge or time spend it can be based on a greater team coordination that cant be achieved outside a guild grp, meaning that PUGs must head to the exit. Are we doomed to only see either wiki clones or kids with too much time on their hands having fun in guild wars ? Is there an alternative ? Yseron - 86.209.64.197 20:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

9 - 5 job. Wake up at 8. Make supper and get settled. 6 o'clock. 6 more hours to do whatever your heart pleases. Weekends too, and don't give me social life bullshit, you should have plenty more time on the weekends. Further, senior, if you're worried about what others are doing in an MMO, you're not playing it for the right reasons. Have you met Gem? :3 Vael Victus 00:41, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't believe I have had the pleasure yet. --Wolf 01:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

There really isn't any true alternative to grind. Grind is what keeps games like this going. The 'nicer grind' would be quest based, where there's an objective for the player to complete. There's is where a random quest giver would be quite valuable. 000.00.00.00 01:11, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Eh I hope you don't mean like, generic "get this" "kill that" quests. Because the matrix online does that... it causes me to treat the gameplay as more of an injection of quick fun than a real game. Just mess around in a mission for 20 minutes. The characters have generic randomized names and you just go there and kill them etc. Vael Victus 01:23, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Social life bullshit ? You mean that whatever familly you pick everybody in it plays guild wars ? There arent 2 ways of devoting the needed time to your relatives, you either have it, or you dont. What can lead someone to think that everything is fine is a computer that stay on from 6 to 12 and a wife who dont dare to remind her husband that his son never do his homework. In all other cases you cant fill a HoM, nor you can find a pug in areas where it takes usually 2 hours to form a partyYseron - 86.209.64.197 01:31, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Oh, ya know, I totally forgot. ;_; I'm a pretty old gamer myself and I didn't even consider that people had family families. Well in that case, you are lost on every front. You can't really devote the time to any other PvP game because you won't have the time to get really good at it, and you won't have much time to build your character. Just play for yourself and don't bother with what everyone else is doing. :S You'll at least always (sorta) have people to party with as there are more newbies etc. etc. etc. Vael Victus 00:04, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Vael, thats the poor man's random quest system. One could impliment a series of quests per area, or larger ones that are per region that the player can be assigned. They'd be the generic "kill these guys bring back their heads" style quest but would also have more indepth ones where you storm a fortress, defend it, mini capture the flag style stuff, whatever... there is the possiblity of many preset quests, but you have the chance of getting 1 of several possible quests, and when you complete it you get another one. Kind of taking what happens in Factions with their repeatable quests but give it more depth.

Not sure if random is the right word. Random quests could be done, set a whole heap of variables and through a random percentage the game picks how the quest will work... could lead to some interesting combinations and the rewards would be based upon the difficulty of each variable etc [shrugs] I'll need to think of it some more. 000.00.00.00 01:40, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

What about Kilroy? He also appears randomly and gives you his random "keep me alive" quest :). In any case, i agree with 00. MMORPGs (and MMOGs in general) are by definition "grinding" games. If you want to try games where "skill > time spent", you may want to try FPSs, RTSs, or maybe fighting games.--Fighterdoken 01:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Precisely, I am asking to regina if there are any alternative that we could have missed, because I cant imagine ANet would have put a lie on the prophecy box, would they ? Yseron - 86.209.64.197 01:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Well, in my opinion, the extreme alternative would be a perfectly flat playing field. So basically an RTS or FPS. An MMO like that would be everyone is the same level, access to all skills and attributes, places and weapons, kinda like how PvP is set up now, only without being stuck with a primary profession, and every skill,weapon,rune and mod unlocked. Yukiko 01:58, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Didn't they put also that "Hamstring" and "Firestorm" made for a good warrior combo? Just because marketing thought it was a good idea to stamp it in the box, it doesn't mean the devs planned it that way.--Fighterdoken 02:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

You are welcomed to enlight other anomalies as they come back to your mind. Another point is to try and determine if they believe in what they said, and if they want to enforce their belief. Yseron - 86.209.64.197 02:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

My point is, i think we are all intelligent enough as to see how much of truth there is behind each anouncement. Guild Wars is a "grind-free paradise" when compared with other games like, let's say EverQuest (where i had the pleasure to grind), so if you take in consideration the time at which Prophecies launched and their main focus (which was and still is PvP), their statement actually made sense. If you insist in bringing a statement made years ago (when it held as much truth as now anyways) into today's discussion, then i have to question your motives actually.--Fighterdoken 02:13, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Simple: tell me where they say it is no more anti-grind ? Yseron - 86.209.64.197 02:16, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Um, lets see, the sheer fact that I can get from 1-20 just by playing the game naturaly and not by having to grind to level AT ALL. This alone already blows, EVERY OTHER MMO out of the water, minus some of those odd MMOFPS games (yes, they have those) and Eve online, but Eve online is a deal where Number of days since you have started playing = skill, but it's still not a grind to level, as you just set a skill you wanna train and walk away, anyway, I digress. --Wolf 02:35, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Now can you tell me where it is stated that the anti-grind only applies to leveling. Yseron - 86.209.64.197 02:45, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Consider this, there are realy only 6 titles that require much of a grind, and PvP titles do not count. There is realy nothing else that requires any element of grind. --Wolf 02:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, grind is required. Yseron - 86.209.64.197 02:51, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Not agreed, those 6 titles are not required to be completed. --Wolf 03:00, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Wrong: I cant pug wherever I want without grinding titles. Yseron - 86.209.64.197 03:01, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

That's b/c PuGs blow, are full of themselves, and need too loose their elitist attitude. It's not the game's or Arenanets fault everyone that runs ursan requires r10 to join the grounp when r4 pwns enough face. --Wolf 03:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Hence me asking if there are altenative ways to reward players with something else than titles to grind because we now know for sure that it will force you to grind even if not required. Yseron - 86.209.64.197 03:09, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Re the social life bullshitter, I certainly hope he doesn't have a family to think about. Re: random quests, it doesn't have to be like that. Escape Velocity Nova had a good random quest design conjuncated with the dynamics of storyline quests along with ever-changing attitudes of various factions toward you. – Barinthus 03:52, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Re Barintus - I wonder why you certainly hope that. As for alternatives you are free to discuss them here as it is less off topic. Yseron - 86.209.64.197 04:25, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

To reward players they'd have to add new content, which with only two people handling Guild Wars, is going to be an issue. Sure, they could add tonics and the such, but bigger things I wouldn't expect to really see any time soon. Nova... haven't played that in a while. 000.00.00.00 04:37, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Also, I think if they managed the grind a little better it wouldn't be so bad. Wolf, as for it not being Arenanet fault, to a point it is, Arenanet created everything in the game, and with something such as Ursan they should have been it coming, and when it came they should have dealt with it but its only now they are. [shrugs] 000.00.00.00 04:43, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

By the time Ursan hit, it was already too late to deal with it, as all their people where already owrking on GW2. From the stand-point fo a software developer, I can see why they didn't see it comming. I think they just underestimated the elistest nature of the community, which is again, easy to do. --Wolf 13:57, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Randomness: Pick what you already have, divide it into pieces, shuffle the pieces, and make new stuff with them. Then you get 'infinite' content. MithTalk 17:39, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

To Wolf, sorry, can't agree with you there, Arenanet just dropped the ball on Arenanet from the beginning, a mistake I haven't seen them own yet.

Mith, random is good ^_^ 000.00.00.00 18:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

(RI) The alternative is, IMO, to reward everything, each thing with a different reward. Let's reward grind - why not, give grinders a big flag saying "I have grinded for x hours" and nothing else (no other benefit or in-game advantage linked to it). Let's reward knowledge - give people who do something a flag saying "I know how to do y" and nothing else (no other benefit or in-game advantage). Let's reward skill - give people who do something hard a flag saying "I managed to beat area z" and nothing else. As long as the reward means specifically what it is being rewarded for, I don't see a problem...

...But what I do see a problem is with linking these rewards with something else. The Grandmaster Cartographer titles - I like them. Do they give players who get them any benefit? Nope. Are people who do not have those titles missing something? Yes, the title itself, nothing more. The Norn title - I don't like it. Players who grind for it get a benefit that goes way beyond something saying they have grinded (Ursan). Arena Net is aware of this problem, as seen on how they have already promised both to nerf Ursan and to look at how some titles are earned, later this year, so this is not something I'm too concerned about, GW1 wise.

Going a bit beyond the "time-knowledge-skill" metaphor (that IMO is a bit of an oversimplification), I think the key is to reward people by giving them a good time (or making them to have fun, to say the same in other words), and get rid of the mentality that people need to be rewarded for playing the game with gold, items or more power. The second idea I would like to dispel is the one that players should play the game every day for the rest of their lives - that idea is, IMO, the true source of grind in GW. I think it would be better if Arena Net worked not to reward people for spending hours playing the game, but rather to make people want to play the game for hours because they're having fun and then, after they have done everything they wanted and had all the fun they wanted, to stop playing the game with the knowledge that they had a great time. In this context, time sinks (which is what grind boils down to) become irrelevant. Erasculio 21:50, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Many Thanks

I just wanted to thank you, our community manager, on behalf of the community, for bearing the complaints and relaying all the useful information that contributed to this much needed, highly intelligent, generally astounding update. I'm happy that you have reduced Ursan Blessing's use in elite missions and kept it powerful for the less creative and the way you have made GvG more fun. I'm so very happy with 'The Power is Yours!' I don't even use a paragon but I'm having fun with that skill already. The necromancer skills are brilliant. Finally I can use blood magic for more than just entertainment! and Order of Undeath makes me feel devious. The new elites which cause daze can be worked around but they worry me immensely for random arenas and that is the only quarm I can possibly have.

I don't give a damn if there are any bugs. The inconcievably generous thought was there and your integrity has been restored. You are my new best friend, Miss Buenaobra. Much love from Mr. Legacy.

Spawnlegacy 11:00, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

LOL! The Bueno Bars again. I'm with spawnlegacy, awesome update! We need a {{thumbsup}}, but for now, I'll settle with some 's. Although, Unyeilding Aura does not state it's ranger on the rez and how much health/energy the rez with. Anyway, Ursan was handled QITE nicely, like that, did some killing with it last night, and it still mworks, but is much less over-powered, given the set duration. Kudos to everyoen who worked on this update. --Wolf 13:59, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I love the update, although personally i no longer think the blessings deserve elite status. Which is fine by me. -- Salome 14:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I am also a fan of the new update, not only the Ursan nerf but a huge amount of skills were reworked too. Anywho, glad to see the changes though, smiting prayers looks like it wants to be in the next category of buffs :P Lance 05:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I too have enjoyed every aspect of this new update Miss Regina. The death of Ursan, the arrival of new builds, and the retooling of GvG. I particularly love the buff done on Master of Magic. Finally Prismatic Elemetalists are truly possible. Thank you. Malchior Devenholm 08:49, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Most of the credit is due to the designers (who also read the forums, BTW) for doing the experimentation and testing for this most recent update. They worked incredibly hard on it. It was slightly disappointing for QA to read some of the forum comments where people say that this update wasn't very big. Testing that many skills, bugs, updates, improvements, and changes was a big task for them. However, it was quite gratifying for all of us to see that players responded almost universally positively. Anyway, if you have specific critiques for improvement, please post in the forums. Everyone reads them. --Regina Buenaobra 18:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

"Everyone reads them", this is reference to whom? 000.00.00.00 19:23, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Designers, programmers, artists -- most people who have a say in the development of the game read the forums to some degree or another. For example, designers will read the forums pretty frequently (almost daily in some cases), and artists I think read them less frequently. --Regina Buenaobra 20:06, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

[makes notes] Any forums they visit more than others [holds pen over paper waiting to write down the forum name and immediately sign up] ^_^ 000.00.00.00 23:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I despise Guru passionately. Denizen Zero 17:18, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

pyre feirceshot and charm ANIMAL

had nothing relly to do so i decided to put in animal companion in HoM.Then i reliesd it was not lvl 20 so i started to fool around with charm animal.I cast it on evrything in HoM and i had pyre with me. When i cast it on him it said(as it had said all the time)this creature is not a animal.Gwen says that he IS animal in the cinematic after warband of brothers.Im not saying u should make him a charmable animal,but just saying invalid target instead of creature is not a animal.Simpaklimp 09:05, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Errr... Just cause Gwen, whos a big Charr racist, said hes an animal doesnt mean he is one. Technically everyone is an animal. It just depends on your perception of sentience and other such things. It's generally accepted that being self aware is the dividing point and Charr are self aware. -- Salome 10:50, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

And by that logic, almost none of the pets in GW would be charmable. In fact, I can't think of a single one that isn't self aware.--Yankeefan984 04:29, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Don't you think so. 'Self aware' means that you can think of yourself as 'I'. Most animals know about their surroundings, but only intelligent animals like primates, parrots and dolphins think as 'I'. MithTalk 15:20, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

As mith said self awareness is the state of being aware that you are "I", and from that extrapolating how you relate to the world in which you live. Animals don't have that, people do. Nay offence Yankeefan, but sentience is one hell of a big rambley philosophy discussion and one which I don't think you really wanna get into. -- Salome 23:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm just gonna say that "animal" here clearly refers to game mechanics, and really means "creature capable of being charmed by Charm Animal". Gwen, on the other hand, wasn't referring to game mechanics. :p --Mme. Donelle 12:52, 14 August 2008 (UTC) http://www.strato.net/~crvny/sa03002.htm--Yankeefan984 15:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Heh. And here I was thinking that the info is useful... but then, I wouldn't mind seeing all animals be charmable. I wants me a WarCow, but it keeps telling me a cow isn't an animal, either... Trailsong 20:05, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Rightfully so, I've had more than one seemingly intelligent conversations with the cows in Guild Wars HeavenMonkey 22:53, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

A loyal players question: "Redux or not?"

Regina, I think we all need a answer to this question, so please give it to us. Last year, I was really happy to see there were a Dragon Festival redux, though I every year goes to a computerfree zone (a house in the country..:) ) in the begining of the summer. I was so happy to see that Anet put their players comfort first, and repeated a festival so all their players doesnt have to "camp" in front of thier computers all summer. But this year I read on the wiki that a redux wont accure this year. That last years redux was an apologise for european players that bugged when a computer crashed beacause of to many players. I was really, really disapointed. I really though that Anet did the redux beacause they want ALL players to have fun in the festivals? Even the ones that goes away all summer? So, now im asking, will a Df redux acour during 2008? And if the answer to that question is no, please think of all your loyal players who cant play during the beginning of the summer, and ask yourselfs, why cant you make a redux? Its not the end of the world if you repeat it... I still belive in you, and I know many players do, so please, dont makes us disapointed... So, are you going to have a Dragon festival redux this year? (P.s sorry for the spelling, its really bad, but what can I say, i'm swedish... xD) 83.251.68.22 16:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)Megalodon83.251.68.22 16:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Ye, thats right!! We wan't a redux! 83.251.68.22 16:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)Tommy83.251.68.22 16:09, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

We know that not all players are able to make it to all events, however Dragon Festival 2007 was an unusual occurrence where many, many players were unable to connect, so to make it up to the Europeans, it was rerun. The special in-game events are for all players. There are currently no plans to rerun the Dragon Festival this year. The good thing about these annual events is that, well -- they occur annually. You'll be able to experience it again at around the same time next year. --Regina Buenaobra 16:34, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm gratefull for your answer, and I do see your point. However, I do recomend that you guys have more festivals. Then it wouldn't be souch a disaointment if ya miss one^^~~Megalodon~~

I meant disapointment... yee, my english is bad...xD ~~Megalodon~~

I agree Regina, that annual events are annual, but I too was very happy last year when there was a redux, because generally the first half of July every year, I'm away from a computer. While I agree with what you're saying normally, Summer is somewhat of a different story with there being a larger than normal population of the Guild wars community being away, or so I would believe. As you point out, you can always catch the event next year, but as with me and Megalodon, and I'm sure many others, we won't be able to catch it next year, as being away from a computer will occur every year at this time -Warior Kronos 22:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

M.O.X. - name reference

Is this suspection right? Do you play Magic? :P —ZerphaThe Improver 16:40, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

A short story provides the primary inspiration for the golem's name, according to John Hargrove, who designed the hero. John was looking for ideas, and came across as list of fictional robots and androids on Wikipedia. He spotted a reference to a story called "Moxon's Master" by Ambrose Bierce:"Moxon's Master" is a short story by the late 19th Century American author Ambrose Bierce that speculates on the nature of life and intelligence. It describes a chess-playing robot automaton that murders its creator. Published in 1909, it is one of the first descriptions of a robot in English literature. It's a happy coincidence that the original five Mox artifacts in Magic are pieces of golden jewelry with gems that represent the five colors of mana, and that Mox the Golem is a Dervish, which of course can take on the avatar form of one of the five gods. --Regina Buenaobra 22:57, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for that answer. I never heard of "Moxon's Master" before. 1909 and scify, that's strange :D So the mana moxes are only a coincidence...may i conclude from that answer that you play or used to play magic? —ZerphaThe Improver 09:53, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

And does that mean there will also be a storyline reference: MOX killing his Asuran creator? —ZerphaThe Improver 09:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

I never played Magic. I wanted to, and I even had some cards back in the day, when MTG just came out, but I didn't really have anyone to play with at the time. Some people around the office have played or currently play Magic. --Regina Buenaobra 16:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

John Hargrove does play Magic, and in fact worked for WotC before coming to ArenaNet. John thought the Moxon short story was really neat and the Mox cards in MtG just reinforced the coolness of using that name. M.O.X. does not kill his creator. - Linsey talk 15:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

That would be disturbing if MOX killed his Asura creator and then joined us under the title of "hero". 122.104.165.13 18:14, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks to you two for that information. I wouldn't have supposed that an Anet member once worked for Wizards. :D

And i think that story could still be viable by adding minor extra facts, e.g. arguing that the Golem's mind changed as his circuitry got damaged when he killed his master or something. —ZerphaThe Improver 08:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

HoM Update

when will that update comes out? i've been waiting for a long time. Thanks --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.247.196.133 (talk).

We will let you about the HoM account-based changes know well before it comes out. --Regina Buenaobra 20:22, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

um English? i think you mean; "we will tell you about the HoM account based changes, well before it comes out"? sorry didn't mean to be rude but it makes no scene. also i am not the op.75.172.47.109 05:58, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I'm in the middle of 3 million things. What I meant to say was: we will let you know before the changes are implemented. --Regina Buenaobra 17:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

That's actually more of an insult to yourself than Regina. In more ways than one. Vael Victus 15:03, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Moving one word provides this: "We will let you know about the HoM account-based changes ... well before it comes out." -- Dashface 03:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

[crosses figures] I just hope that update the frustating display options we have now... 000.00.00.00 09:51, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

She probably started out with something like, "We will make ... [them] known well before it comes out" and then went back to change the wording, causing the above sentence. It's called an anacoluthon, and everyone does it once in a while. No need to get rude. Kokuou 12:18, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Thats actually a pretty depressing reply. I was hoping for this thursday. I don't want lots of warning, I just want the update. Sadie2k 18:39, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

The Hall of Monuments changes require coding both on the GW1 and the GW2 side. This is not a small project, and it's not something that only one person can do by themselves without input from other teams. Like any other project that impacts GW2 development time, it requires scheduling with the producers, and it requires a lot of testing. I have told the designers how important it is to players to be given some notice before the changes go live. Sorry I can't give you a timeframe for it right now, but I have been told that everyone will know about it before they go live. --Regina Buenaobra 17:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)