Feedback talk:User/Konig Des Todes/Guild Wars Revamp/Changes to skills

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Splitting skills in PvE and PvP only seems like a decent idea to fix up some balance however i do object to the elites being only PvE and PvP for a reason you have not listed. In my view all elites (except the 3 norn elites) should be usable and both PvE and PvP alike and not be usable in only one part of the game. Da Mystic Reaper 17:36, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

"for a reason you have not listed" What reason, unless you mean your personal view is that reason. Konig/talk 22:57, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
My bad i gues i should have worded it better, argument would be a more correct word than reason. At your Arguments and Counter Arguments section you mentioned 2 arguments and a defense. My argument for elites not to be split in either of the 2 formats is that they should be available and usable and not usable in just one format of the game like Icy Shackles. You can call it a personal opinion of the elite skills but i would hate to see them being limited to such an extend. One thing that also bothers me a big time is the removal of skills, in particular for the warrior and the elementalist. The ammount of skills they have per weapon attribute is already a fairly small pool and only the option of using 3 different weapons makes up for that lack, reducing it even further could be a fatal blow to the playability of the weapons. For the elementalist it's the same deal with it's elements altough those skill pools are larger it remains the same. I don't see removal of skills as an option but a larger split of PvE/PvP as one. Leave the core skills as PvX skills and see wich other skills can be properly split for PvE and PvP. It may not be your forte since you are more of a lore-guru rather than a skills-guru would i would advice a list of splits per profession. It will also show you if what you have in mind on paper would truly work out in practice, the concept looks nice but the way you have it in mind really needs some serious improvement. Da Mystic Reaper 12:00, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Fair point on the number of skills - perhaps go by attribute rather than overall skill numbers.
On elites I greatly disagree because there are certain skill abilities - both normal and elite skills - which do not work in one format or another and thus would require a massive functionality change in one of the two formats in order to work, and that works against the point of this suggestion as it just adds onto the skills (basically this suggestion is meant primarily to reduce the number of (PvP) skills by removing either the PvP or PvE counterparts - the second purpose is to reduce the overall skills). Such elite skills include Shroud of Silence, which got Smiter's Booned long before the action got dubbed after Izzy's actions on Smiter's Boon, due to its use in PvP and not PvE. Now there's two options with it - split into PvE and PvP versions, creating an arbitrarily unnecessary skill that is unlikely to ever be touched again, or take my suggestion and remove it from PvP play and make it accessible to PvE play. Konig/talk 12:38, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
I think this is one of the greatest skill-suggestions i saw so far (not, that i search active for them ;). My Way to improve skills is mostly a desperate try to make any Skill, especially Elite useful to PvE. That includes often new ideas for skills, which dont work out like they are, but only to "delete" them from the game seems far more logically. It would be great, if this were created in the beginnings of GW, but now it is obviously to late for such an update...They used your Idea already for GW2 and they said themself they did so cause the GW1-System failed. To renew this System would make the game much better, but to renew means a big amount of work 90% of the players are not interested in and from the 10% at least 9% can live without it... (sry, for a lore-loving guy my obviously not native english must be kind of horrible...) Greetings, --Naruuu 15:41, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
My personal opinion is that elites that only function in either format should have a proper split so that they can work in both formats and you don't get nerfs such as Shroud of Silence. I just hate it that perfectly working skills in PvE get nerfed just because of GvG and in the past HA. Well your reason is also understandable but it also brings us to another problem and that is the list of elites for the dervish and the paragon and to a lesser extend the assassin and the ritualist, the first 2 primarily don't have enough elites for a proper split of elites neither for their normal skills, it will also be a tight pool for the assassin and the ritualist. Since you want to reduce the number of core profession skills i suggest a transfer of some of the core profession skills to the non-core professions skills and split those in a PvE/PvP skill list. It would be a much more effective way to make each profession have the same ammount of skills. Da Mystic Reaper 16:37, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
@Naruuu: I wouldn't say that many people are not interested in.
@Mystic: I hate the same thing (that good PvE skills got nerfed due to GvG/HA), which is yet another purpose behind this suggestion. But as I said in the suggestion, the skills for the expansion professions would be touched less than those of the core professions. As to transferring skills - that could be done but it's relatively pointless because: 1) You need to make new skill icons anyways (color coding and all), and 2) some functions wouldn't really work for other professions, or in some cases, the names. With that much work going into it anyways, might as well just make brand new skills and toss the "old" skills into the monster-only department. Konig/talk 21:28, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
And I wouldn't say that 10% of all GW Players are not many people X3 --Naruuu 00:23, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
No need to re-name and re-icon the skills, the only thing that would need to change is the collor. Transferring skills to other professions isn't all that difficult to do since many skills could easily go to another profession without being changed in name or function. The dervish could receive the eles conures and some of the PBAoE spells such as Whirlwind and Frozen Burst or enchantments such as Armor of Mist and Mist Form or Windborne Speed. The ritualist could receive some of the ranger's rituals and the assassin could receive a stance or 2 such as Tiger's Fury and Dodge. The warrior also has plenty of skills in Strength and Tactics that could be transferred to other professions, the paragon could easily receive some of it's shouts like Shields Up! and Retreat! or some skills that give it offensive support for it's spear attacks such as Flail and Flourish. For a evenly spread ammount of skills i would suggest this:
Warrior: 130 (-10), Ranger: 120 (-20), Monk: 120 (-21), Necromancer: 120 (-22), Mesmer: 120 (-17), Elementalist: 130 (-14), Assassin: 120 (+10), Ritualist:120 (+10), Paragon: 120 (+35), Dervish: 120 (+35), Core: 15 (+14)
Those remaining 14 profession skills could be changed into core skills, Antidote Signet, Signet of Disenchantment and Dash would be some good candidates for that. Of the 130/120 skills you can choose an ammount of skills for both PvE and PvP, let's say 30 per professions and the remaining 100/90 you split between PvE and PvP meaning you would have 50/45 PvE and PvP skills and 30 PvX skills and 15 PvX core skills wich sums up to a total of 95/85 skills per profession for each format (not including title skills). That ammount skills gives players the option to create a variety of builds and not being forced to take the same skills like everyone else to function. Multiple skills would need some sort of change to make them more ideal for the format in wich they are played in but once all of the functions have been balanced out properly they should be alot easier to maintain so your goal would still be achieved. If you give me the time i could fix up a list of wich skills could go to wich professions and maybe i can work out a PvE/PvP/PvX split as well. Da Mystic Reaper 13:52, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
I managed to transfer alot of skills to make an equal number for the professions but got stuck on the necromancer. Well with this i admit it myself that it's almost impossible to do without changing name and icon, wich is something i don't see happening anytime soon if at all. I like the PvE/PvP/PvX split but reducing the total ammount of skills can take is something i do not support. Splitting all of the skills and reducing the number for each format is something i personally would still see as a better and more likely to happen than outright reducing the total ammount of available skills. Well since this suggestion ís your ideal of the game i'm not saying it should be changed but i do advice you to concider wich options are more likely to pass and wich ones are not. Da Mystic Reaper 19:52, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Technically speaking, reducing the number of skills physically available in any format is equally unlikely regardless of how they become available - be they only available in one format or never to players and heroes (but still usable on henchmen, ally, or foe NPCs). The entire flaw of this is deciding which skills go where and why - no matter which skills are chosen, there will be hell raised by those who still play because "their favorite skill got removed from their format" etc. etc.
I'm not too caring about specifics, what I care about is the reduction of skills so that balance becomes easier for the devs (and hopefully lesser balance changes become required - of course, this is assuming that players continue playing GW1 after GW2's release which in of itself more or less requires new content in which case something like this would be needed to be done before skill balances which would also be needed to be done before new content). However, 95/85 per format I feel is too high still (even though it's lower than my own suggestion - but this is me we're talking about!). I do, however, like putting more skills into the common skill list beyond Resurrection Signet. Non-attribute signets and stances would most definitely be befitting that concept. Konig/talk 20:10, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

To give you an idea of how a PvX/PvE/PvP split will look like here is a list of a warrior split. When you properly split the skills and look at how many skills there are per attribute and their functions you will see that 90/90 skills per format is actually an acceptable ammount. You will have the ability to make diverse builds and can still balance them properly. Give it a second thought since a split without removing any skills isn't really that bad at all. Da Mystic Reaper 13:32, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Core PvE PvP

Axe Rake Axe Rake
Cyclone Axe Cyclone Axe
Dismember Dismember
Disrupting Chop Disrupting Chop
Executioner's Strike Executioner's Strike
Swift Chop Swift Chop
Cleave Cleave

Counter Blow Counter Blow
Devastating Hammer Devastating Hammer
Hammer Bash Hammer Bash
Heavy Blow Heavy Blow
Irresistible Blow Irresistible Blow
Mighty Blow Mighty Blow
Staggering Blow Staggering Blow

Final Thrust Final Thrust
Gash Gash
Hamstring Hamstring
Hundred Blades Hundred Blades
Savage Slash Savage Slash
Seeking Blade Seeking Blade
Sever Artery Sever Artery

Battle Rage Battle Rage
Berserker Stance Berserker Stance
Bull's Strike Bull's Strike
Endure Pain Endure Pain
Power Attack Power Attack
Shield Bash Shield Bash
Sprint Sprint
Warrior's Cunning Warrior's Cunning

"Charge!" "Charge!"
"Shields Up!" "Shields Up!"
"Watch Yourself!" "Watch Yourself!"
Balanced Stance Balanced Stance
Defensive Stance Defensive Stance
Healing Signet Healing Signet
Thrill of Victory Thrill of Victory

"For Great Justice!" "For Great Justice!"
Distracting Blow Distracting Blow
Frenzy Frenzy
Wild Blow Wild Blow

Agonizing Chop Agonizing Chop
Critical Chop Critical Chop
Eviscerate Eviscerate
Keen Chop Keen Chop
Penetrating Blow Penetrating Blow
Triple Chop Triple Chop

Auspicious Blow Auspicious Blow
Belly Smash Belly Smash
Crude Swing Crude Swing
Earth Shaker Earth Shaker
Fierce Blow Fierce Blow
Enraged Smash Enraged Smash
Mokele Smash Mokele Smash
Yeti Smash Yeti Smash

Barbarous Slice Barbarous Slice
Dragon Slash Dragon Slash
Galrath Slash Galrath Slash
Pure Strike Pure Strike
Standing Slash Standing Slash
Sun and Moon Slash Sun and Moon Slash

"You Will Die!" "You Will Die!"
Body Blow Body Blow
Charging Strike Charging Strike
Counterattack Counterattack
Defy Pain Defy Pain
Dolyak Signet Dolyak Signet
Dwarven Battle Stance Dwarven Battle Stance
Flail Flail
Griffon's Sweep Griffon's Sweep
Lion's Comfort Lion's Comfort
Rage of the Ntouka Rage of the Ntouka
Rush Rush
Signet of Strength Signet of Strength
Tiger Stance Tiger Stance
Warrior's Endurance Warrior's Endurance

"Fear Me!" "Fear Me!"
"To the Limit!" "To the Limit!"
Auspicious Parry Auspicious Parry
Deadly Riposte Deadly Riposte
Deflect Arrows Deflect Arrows
Desperation Blow Desperation Blow
Gladiator's Defense Gladiator's Defense
Riposte Riposte
Shield Stance Shield Stance
Soldier's Defense Soldier's Defense
Soldier's Speed Soldier's Speed
Soldier's Stance Soldier's Stance
Soldier's Strike Soldier's Strike

Flurry Flurry
Symbolic Strike Symbolic Strike

Axe Twist Axe Twist
Decapitate Decapitate
Furious Axe Furious Axe
Lacerating Chop Lacerating Chop
Penetrating Chop Penetrating Chop
Whirling Axe Whirling Axe

Backbreaker Backbreaker
Crushing Blow Crushing Blow
Forceful Blow Forceful Blow
Magehunter's Smash Magehunter's Smash
Overbearing Smash Overbearing Smash
Pulverizing Smash Pulverizing Smash
Renewing Smash Renewing Smash

Crippling Slash Crippling Slash
Jaizhenju Strike Jaizhenju Strike
Knee Cutter Knee Cutter
Quivering Blade Quivering Blade
Silverwing Slash Silverwing Slash
Steelfang Slash Steelfang Slash

"I Meant to Do That!" "I Meant to Do That!"
"I Will Avenge You!" "I Will Avenge You!"
"I Will Survive!" "I Will Survive!"
Bull's Charge Bull's Charge
Burst of Aggression Burst of Aggression
Disarm Disarm
Enraging Charge Enraging Charge
Flourish Flourish
Headbutt Headbutt
Leviathan's Sweep Leviathan's Sweep
Magehunter Strike Magehunter Strike
Primal Rage Primal Rage
Protector's Strike Protector's Strike
Signet of Stamina Signet of Stamina

"None Shall Pass!" "None Shall Pass!"
"Retreat!" "Retreat!"
"Victory is Mine!" "Victory is Mine!"
Bonetti's Defense Bonetti's Defense
Disciplined Stance Disciplined Stance
Drunken Blow Drunken Blow
Protector's Defense Protector's Defense
Shove Shove
Steady Stance Steady Stance
Wary Stance Wary Stance

"Coward!" "Coward!"
"On Your Knees!" "On Your Knees!"
"You're All Alone!" "You're All Alone!"
Distracting Strike Distracting Strike
Frenzied Defense Frenzied Defense
Grapple Grapple
Skull Crack Skull Crack