Guild Wars Wiki talk:Projects/Drop research

Archive

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• 2009 Dec - 2010 May
• 2010 Aug - Sep

Losing Wiki Credit?

My problem with this project is, as I am one of the "old" users adding data to the drop and salvage pages. By removing the current way that it is recorded, I will lose all my posts. I don't often find errors in the main body of the wiki so drop research is really the only place I can post. I also am concerned about just any user doing the totals for things. Like on the page for lunar fortunes, some user has taken in on themselves to do the totaling, and just had users add their data at the end for later totaling. I do agree that the pages should all be uniform, and I have corrected any that I have come across. I used the Jeweled Daggers. page as my example. (note: I have edited that page in the past and I didn't like the "talk" after the drop research, but my wiki skills aren't strong enough to move that to a new page)

Anyways, take some time off and things do change.Yoe Dude 22:21, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Talk page section vs /research page

Most drop research sections are currently in talk pages, although some are in separate /research pages. For the sake of consistency lets pick one and make that the standard. Please discuss. -- Kirbman 20:32, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it matters. Some things generate a lot of research and/or chatter (e.g. GotH/GotT, ) and need a separate page. Some things don't (e.g. Amber Wands) and drop and salvage data can reside comfortably on the ordinary talk page. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:58, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

The tables are off the main articles either way, so we don't need to strive for consistency for the readers' sake. Do the inconsistencies make it more difficult to contribute to this project, or raise any other actual problems? If not, then don't bother fixing what ain't broken.

Especially don't go moving existing tables between pages unless those tables are actively contributed to, since doing so will make it more complicated to track down the contributor of a specific entry later. Tub 22:44, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

If we decide on one way the benefits would include:

1. Consistency
2. We don't get pages like Briar Blade that have some research in one place and some in another.
3. We can use a template, as I've demonstrated on Guardian Branch, to keep things simple
4. The template would ensure that pages that should be categorized with ongoing drop research don't get excluded and pages that are no longer being researched don't get included

-- Kirbman 05:26, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I liked the idea of including the drop search box in the main page of for example trophies for either Nicholas or just people interested in collectors weapons. But the problem would be of charts that have extended contributions by users. If we were to limit the length of such boxes...thumbs up ^_^. Yoshida Keiji talk With appearance of: Yoshida Keiji talk 14:10, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

drop research theory

I have been researching Chest drops, and I have come to the conclusion that, at least for who can drop what item, the mode (normal/hard) and the zone do not matter. All that matters is the mob. So a Graven Monolith will drop the same items regardless of whether it is in The Desolation or Realm of Torment. So acquisition on most pages can be simplified to a list of mobs (or mob categories) that can drop the item, or, for core items, just by simply stating Random drop. Listing the location where the mobs can be found is not necessary, since that belongs on the mob page, not the item page. Some items may be Nightfall only, so the note may be Nightfall->Random Drop, etc. If there isn't extensive disagreement, I will begin modifying pages slowly to reflect this. Jafar 13:38, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

Terrorweb Dryders in the Domain of Fear can't drop ectos, so unfortunately it's not that simple.. Tub 16:28, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I neglected to say, but I was I was only thinking about weapons and salvage armor, but I think it should be applicable to collector items too. I have no idea about crafting materials; my theory isn't about materials. Perhaps a special 'region' rule applies to ectos and obsidian shards? Note that the Terrorweb Dryder page lists Storm Bow, for example, under both versions of the Dryder, meaning that the monster keeps its loot table wherever it is. It even has the same collector item. I guess weapon, armor and collector item depend on the mob, crafting material depends on the region. Jafar 17:31, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

After thinking more, crafting materials are probably dropped as an intersection of region and mob loot table (for example Jade Brotherhood drop cloth as a mob-based drop, not a regional drop). However, drop of other items seems to me to be unaffected by region, depending only on the foe. Or, maybe there are a selected few rare crafting material that are influenced by region (ectos, shards, jade, amber). Jafar 18:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

So, seeing that ectos contradict your theory, you assume that the theory holds, and crafting materials are just an exception? Then try researching Charr Hunters in pre, post, eotn and during titan quests. See if their non-mat/non-trophy drops remain constant.

While I haven't yet found a case where monsters drop different trophys based on region, I doubt that holds for everything else. We know for certain that in some cases, the region affects the drops, and we must assume that ANet has used this possibility in other parts of the game, too.

In other words, please keep the region information in drop tables until you have can absolutely prove that region does not matter in certain cases. Right now, there's only assumption and extrapolations from common observations, but not nearly enough data to even give a confidence level of your theories. Tub 19:50, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

@Jafar: Does that mean nagas, yetis, oni and kappa in the jade sea can drop Shing Jea items like the Sunqua Blade?? I've been trying to prove that the loot tables don't change from region to region for these mobs but have found nothing conclusive. Been trying to track down the source of Q8 max sunqua blades but I no luck there =( 60.234.197.191 02:22, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

The naga and yeti, as far as I know, have different names, and therefore should not have the same drops. I was gonna do a write-up of the whole thesis I have developed so far, but want to participate in the Wintersday event first. But for your consumption, here is a rough part of the write-up:

Clearly, different monsters should not necessarily drop the same items. The issue is being able to distinguish two monsters. If we do not know the monster ID used by the Guild Wars software, here are some other ways this can be accomplished:

1. The NAME of the monster: Almost everyone will agree that monsters with different names are different.

2. The APPEARANCE/SKIN of the monster: As an example, although Enchanted Swords exist in both Prophecies and Eye of the North, they are clearly not the same monster despite their same name.

3. The LEVEL of the monster: This might be more contentious. As an example, Kappa in Shing Jea are of two types: level 1 and level 6, each dropping different trophies. Should we insist on calling them the same monster? I think it is much more helpful to distinguish these as separate monsters (and thus collect more information about exactly which kind of monster is dropping what) rather than treating them as the same, which will prevent people from being motivated to collect information on the level of the monster dropping the loot.

4. The SKILLS/BUILD used by the monster: Monsters can have the same name, level and appearance, but can have different builds, such as many of the foes in War in Kryta and some yetis, if I recall correctly, which even have different professions despite having the same name. Are these the same monsters? As a computer science student, I myself would have implemented monsters with different builds as different monsters, but have no problem giving them the same name, etc. My computer programmer instincts tell me that monsters with different builds must have different IDs in the software.

5. The TROPHY that is dropped: This last is specifically to distinguish between Oni in the Jade Sea and Echovald forest, because they are exactly the same in every way except for what they drop. Should we assume that they are the same monster? I suggest that the drop of trophies can be used to identify the affiliation of a monster, and monsters dropping different trophies cannot have the same affiliation, and therefore cannot be the same monster. This last category I myself am not absolutely convinced by, but I think should be left until a better explanation is found for Oni drops.

There you have it. That should help you with the research. I suggest researching White Mantle in Maguuma and Southern Shiverpeaks as same monsters in different regions, but make sure to note the level. I do not think Kappa are good for this research. However, your research so far would be great to prove whether a monster with different levels are actually different monsters. Jafar 04:13, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

As far as I know, all the monster types you have mentioned above differ among their Shing Jea and Kaineng City versions (due to name, level, trophy), so I do not think you will have any luck finding Sunqua Blades from these monsters in Kaineng. Jafar 04:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Er, also applies to the Jade Sea. Jafar 06:59, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

That's some very interesting stuff there! But couldn't Anet have sorted out the drops according to their monster type? Even if their names, skills, trophies are different, a naga is still a naga and Anet COULD have organized drops according to monster type. Perhaps all of these monsters with different IDs' are grouped under a collective term which determines some drops. I'm speaking specifically about weapons here. In regards to materials and trophies, if each individual monster has it's own ID , I'm sure they'd have individual loot tables which could be easily manipulated separately. Anet could have just opened up the loot tables of the terrorwebs in NF and removed ectos from them, but since all of the terrorwebs could have been grouped under a single "terrorweb" term, all of the other drops would be the same as those in the underworld.

If what you have said is true, there would be no Q8, max, gold Sunqua Blades in existance. But they do exist. There are at least 10 of them. Q8, max, gold weapons could never drop in HM and Sunqua Blades of those stats can't drop in Shing Jea Island in NM due to the monster level being too low. Q8 max weapon drop best from foes between Lvl 17 to 22. The only creatures that meet those requirements are Dragon Lilly bosses, Afflicted bosses in Zen Daijun and the Lesser Grasps during the Dragon Festival. The Afflicted drop plagueborn items and there's no evidence of Sunquas dropping from them. I've farmed dragon lillies and gotten plenty of Q8 gold items, but all are way off max that there's no point even suggesting max ones could drop. That only leaves lesser grasps but there's only one(!) in each of four(!) quests. A number of people have said that they can drop in the mainland which is why I think that there might be another layer that you aren't considering.60.234.197.191 07:41, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I have discussed how to distinguish monsters, but I have not yet mentioned how drops are decided. I am not going to present everything right now, but just this:

Items can drop as part of many categories:

1. Core: all foes can drop these

2. Regional: Foes with a certain HOME region (not the current region where they are found) can drop these items.

3. ...

An example of a regional item is Great Conch, dropped by all foes from the Tarnished Coast, even if the foe appears in another location. For example, Spiders from the Tarnished Coast will drop Great Conch even during Warband of Brothers, simply because the spider's HOMEREGION matches the item's region. In a similar way, Sunqua Blade is a regional item belonging to Shing Jea. Any foe with a homeregion of Shing Jea will match the item's region and drop the item, regardless of where the foe is currently. So if there are any quests that place Shing Jea foes in the Jade Sea, you can farm that quest.

The second issue is whether items drop based on monster type, and they do, for example Summit Axe dropped by Stone Summit in (probably) all regions. However, the item you are looking for, Sunqua Blade, is not based on monster type. It is based on region, so the monster type does not matter, so farming monsters of a similar type but from the wrong regions will not work.

Lastly, as far as I know, q8 items no longer drop. Those in existence dropped long ago before a Guild Wars update made q9 the lowest attribute for max stats. So, unless there is someone who can say that Sunqua Blades are an exception to the rule, and I highly doubt that, I would recommend no needlessly wasting your time trying to find one from a monster. Jafar 16:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Q8 swords, shields and foci can still drop. That's been confirmed for years.60.234.197.191 20:58, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

You're right, q8 max still does drop according to the Requirement talk page. In that case, let's see someone report a drop from the mainland, and which mob dropped it, or who was guarding the chest that it dropped from. Then I can consider modifications to the theory. So far all drop reports point to Shing Jea. Jafar 01:02, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

I asked a guy on guru about this and this was his response regarding max, gold q8 Sunquas dropping on the mainland: "I believe the current q7/8 Sunquas date back to early factions and dropped on the mainland (I believe chestrunning the warrior boss in Boreas Seabed might be a good idea)." 60.234.197.191 02:19, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

there you go: early Factions (meaning long ago). As for chestrunning the boss, you can try it and see what results you get. Jafar 09:14, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Yeah but wouldn't the things that you've said about monster affiliation have been the case since Factions release? I looked at past versions of the Naga pages here on the wiki and it looks like the mainland Nagas have always been different from the Shing Jea ones. Your theories make sense and it points to Sunqua Blades never ever being able to drop from the mainland. Unless ofcourse, mainland Nagas were able to drop them as a result of an oversight by the Dev Team when assigning drops to specifics monsters and then getting fixed shortly after. But I can't recall any update that would have fixed that. I'm gonna start chest running (and also killing) the naga boss to see what I can get. All my previous chest runs were of naga in archipelagos and mt. qinkai so maybe this might produce something different. Maybe bosses might follow a completely different criteria. 60.234.197.191 10:36, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Which was the update that modified q8 max weapons? Can somebody link it? Yoshida Keiji talk 13:33, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Guild Wars Wiki:Projects/Drop research/Page template

← moved to Guild_Wars_Wiki_talk:Formatting/Items#Guild_Wars_Wiki:Projects.2FDrop_research.2FPage_template

GWW:ITEM#Acquisition Farming Section

Oooohhh...just for a few seconds I don't EC with you.

I believe the Project's main page needs RE-WRITTING it is way too extended and is using a message aspect, instead of instructing wiki users a set of follow-up steps. I would like to propose Farming Section to be included so that Trophy pages can gain more imput by the entire GW Community. I did Alpine Seed and would like to see more trophies pages have a similar contribution by the rest of the active users if still any. Yoshida Keiji talk 14:35, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

For Monster Trophies

→ moved from Guild Wars Wiki talk:Projects/Drop research/December 2009-May 2010

I know the focus of this project is on equippable items - as it should be. But does the scope of this project cover monster trophies as well? If so, then some columns are not necessary for this type of drop ("rarity" and "value" for drops, and "HS," "ISV," and "value" for salvage). I created a new drop/salvage page for Stolen Goods. Does it look okay? I will focus my efforts on equippable items, but if I encounter trophy pages, I may bring them up to the new standards. Oh, and here's a template. --Threid 05:34, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

...Two years later... The first half of this comment is of no interest, but the second half will be addressed:

The page Stolen Goods/Research, generated a doubled data storage page. Which I merged. This user has between 500-1000 edits and I don't know how many times he/she did the same. As... "if I encounter trophy pages, I may bring them up to the new standards.". Yoshida Keiji talk 08:54, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Ugh

"Drop Research Dakota has suggested that drop research be located solely on it's own page, e.g. Bramble Longbow/Research - this frees up (often large amounts of) space on the item's talk page."

Read first... these instructions in the main page are no longer of use to us. We don't need to start a revert war, right? The Projects main space instruction are terrible extended long with things that are no longer present time, and this is one issue among several others. Just read first.

In other words when was the last time a page "weapon skin/Research" was edited compared to weapon skin talk page drop table last edits? This is because we found it that "Research" pages were not properly linked from the weapon main page and their talk pages... to the point users couldn't find them.

I even recall Research pages being deleted and such registered data transfered to the tables at the talk pages. EDIT: Like the topic just above: Stolen Goods/Research, these pages are being taken away because it causes duplicated data storage. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 19:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Look. The content you have effectively replaced this project with bears no resemblance to the original project or its intentions. My first submission was partially completed, midway through a line.

The edit summary of my final edit says what I think. "upon reflection, I've come to the conclusion that YK isn't an editor for this project at all." Chieftain Alex 21:44, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

List of items with what they salvage into?

I'm sure there must be one, but I can't find it. Obviously I can look at each item/drop and see what it salvages into, or there's the very handy list of drops which produce a certain material, but I'm hoping to find a list or table of items with their resulting salvage mats, all on one handy page.. (I'm in a 'pick up and salvage everything' atm, and constantly struggling for space. It's not always convenient to stop and sort it out heh) Honnaja (talk) ~Honnaja