Talk:Judgment Strike

Uses?

The more I think about it the more I just don't know how to feel about this skill. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 21:17, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Honestly I'm not sure what the use case here is. It's just a bad Signet of Judgment. Aqua (talk) 21:43, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

The only thing it has going for it is that it's an attack skill not tied to Smiting... which, in PvE, is not great. Sacrifice your elite and pve-only slots for this? Nah. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 23:10, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Whirlwind Attack, much less spammable and elite status, but has a 1s activation time and conditional knockdown. Not to use on a monk, better on hammer warriors? Or assassins? It's usable, but a shorter recharge may have been a bit be better. --Ruine Eternelle 01:41, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

This is tied to Divine Favor, doubt any other professions would ever pick it up.--MostDefinitelyNotHanz (talk) 08:32, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

1s activation time AoE attack skill with conditional kd that doesn't require adrenaline. Although the damage scales a bit with attribute rank, it's still AoE bonus 15 holy damage for non-monk, which is not too bad. Of course there are better elites but the point is that the functionality isn't affected much by investment - - Ruine Eternelle 08:49, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

It looks like it is made to go with the new Anniversary Hammer "Verdict" 97.95.180.152

Name

Can someone verify the spelling of "Judgement"? Other skills spell it "Judgment". --DANDY ^_^ -- 23:17, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

It's definitely spelled incorrectly. But I also went to check.

We should rename the page Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 23:45, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

lol--Ruine Eternelle 23:51, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Pardon the redirect, im used to old PvX where I can just delete redirects. Most of my edits, now over a decade ago, are over there. Vincent Evan [Air Henchman] 23:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

No it's me. I am not a native english speaker. I thought judgment was incorrect, and that Judgement was. - - Ruine Eternelle 23:55, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Your technically not wrong. Its one of those stupid/silly/outdated grammar police rules. Being highly depended on American English, Canadian English, Australian English, British English (aka 'True English'), etc. --Falconeye (talk) 03:30, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Damage : type, packet, Armor-ignoring?

Has anyone tested if the additional damage is Armor-ignoring ? Do you need to wield a weapon with holy damage? Is the damage delivered in a separate packet? - - Ruine Eternelle 00:13, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

All added damage in the game is armor ignoring, if it has a + in the skill description ,it ignores armor. 213.249.223.66 08:02, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I believe there is at least one skill that doesn't follow that rule. Can't remember which one exactly. Also usually when there's a +X damage, it's usually without a type, or if it has a type it requires you to wield a weapon of the damage type (conjure flame for instance) so the damage is in the same packet. Maybe it converts the damage to holy only for the strike? we should try to hit some skeletons with that to confirm. - - Ruine Eternelle 08:43, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

In response to 213.249.223.66, that's incorrect. The "Conjure" spells such as Conjure Frost and Conjure Lightning give damage bonuses preceded by a plus symbol that still respect damage. If you check the Armor-ignoring damage page you'll see that the only armor ignoring damage in the game is typless damage, skill related holy damage, shadow damage and any skill that specifically states that the resulting damage ignores armor (all other damage respects armor even if preceeded by a plus symbol in the spell description). Whilst the wiki states that the "Conjure" skills do armor ignoring damage of a specific type, certain spell interactions involving added armor versus elemental damage reduce their damage / possibly due to incorrect tagging. Dj3nt M4ch1n3 (talk) 14:07, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

This Skill... This... Skill

Let's compare the power levels of some of the new elite skills:

Heroic Refrain: With this skill, a Paragon can permanently maintain on every member of his party an unstrippable +6 attribute bonus to every single one of their attribute lines, secondary profession included.

Seven Weapons Stance: With this skill that was probably created by God himself, the Warrior can permanently give himself +16 effing attribute points to every weapon based attribute line in the game and permanently maintain on himself a 33% IAS.

"Together as one!": With this skill that is quite possibly derived from the sacred essence of God himself, the Ranger may permanently grant himself, his pet, and his party members a +15 damage boost to their attacks that is stackable, unstrippable, and comes with +7 health regeneration to boot.

But Judgment Strike... you can do +19 holy damage to all adjacent foes, and maybe knock them down if they're attacking. And it also has a one second activation time, for damage compression. See Whirlwind.

Well, I would suggest upping the damage to +20...36...40 and dropping the cooldown to 10 seconds. It's elite, and it's PvE only after all. I absolutely love the idea of giving Monk's new damage oriented toys to play with, and I'm grateful that the team at least tried, but this one is just too weak to make the cut, and it doesn't offer any synergy with already existing Monk skills aside from Holy Strike and it's duplicate. Soldier198 (talk) 03:40, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

The recharge is definitely too high. But even at 10s with a monk on frontline (76AR with tactics shield, 60 AR without shield!) you really need to get your damage payback for the risk. This should deal more like +20...60...70.--Ruine Eternelle 08:59, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

Investing in divine prayers also gives only +6 damage compared to not having any divine favor. You could bring this on other melee classes and use it better than a monk. --DANDY ^_^ -- 14:53, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

It's just not a good skill. The damage, risks, and recharge are all way too high. Compared too all the other new skills, this just seems... lazy. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 17:51, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I like this skill. It's not overwhelming at all but I can see it used in some way. At least it's much more usable than the overcast piece of trash we have on ele (although i'm happy that we got anything at all). --Ruine Eternelle 18:50, 23 April 2020 (UTC)

I legit want you to explain a situation where this skill would be better over any other elite in the Monk arsenal. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 00:52, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Skills like Mark of Protection and Amity are so bad that I would gladly take Judgment Strike over them if that were the only option. Soldier198 (talk) 02:33, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

It's mostly just theory, I was thinking of these sets :

Hammer Warrior (alternative to earthshaker, kinda overshadowed by seven weapon stance but what isn't ?) :

Touch Skills Ranger (trying to abuse expertise, plus poison on everyone with apply poison. Not great, I concur. Would be better if the expertise sword actually worked):

Dagger Assassin (not sure where to go next, it's kinda overshadowed by whirlwind attack, and there is probably a better way to use it, sharpen daggers AoE bleeding, plus knockdown which can lead to damage chain) :

Dervish : Rending Aura synergy ? Maybe not worth it as scythe already hits everything.

--Ruine  Eternelle 10:37, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

If you're playing around with builds; Mo/D, Scythe, this elite, (flash) enchantments, Contemplation of Purity, something there? - Infinite - talk 10:42, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

So... I decided to try and throw my hat into the ring, and actually found a build I enjoy with some tinkering.

Stat spread is 10 smiting, 8 protection, 12 Divine. Enjoy. (Used with the "Verdict" hammer)[ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 04:25, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

You could maintain SoH on yourself for +26 damage per hit if you went with 16 smiting. --DANDY ^_^ -- 05:13, 1 May 2020 (UTC)

But... I like my version better. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 00:47, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

AoE Meme build that also makes use of the new hammer:

Performs decently. Whirlwind is mostly for more AoE knockdown, can be replaced with SoH if you don't bring hero melee support. Intensity can be replaced with Drunken Master (have not unlocked it on my monk yet). Bring Armor of Earth for extra tankiness. Antaria (talk) 21:14, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Definition for "Core Skills"

One revision emphasized that this skill is "definitely 'Core'". Could someone explain why?

On List_of_core_skills, it appears that the definition of a "Core" skill is: "[...] skills obtainable in any Guild Wars instal(l)ment". Additionally, one finds that only skills belonging to the "Prophecies" professions are listed. Presumably, this is because one cannot play GW1 without "Prophecies", and therefore, any installment of Guild Wars would have to include these skills, and it would be this fact that then necessitates the designation of "Core".

Looking at Judgment Strike, while this is a skill of a "Prophecies" profession, it nevertheless cannot be obtained unless one visits The_Ruptured_Heart in Nightfall. Consequently, in an "installment" without "Nightfall", the player would not be able to obtain this "Core" skill. In other words, this wouldn't be a skill "obtainable in any Guild Wars instal(l)ment".

In view of the above, should this skill be categorized as "Nightfall" instead? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 38.132.103.150 (talk).

Simple answer; sorting the skill by campaign in the game classifies it as Core. - Infinite - talk 22:10, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

What Infinite said. May I add that those skills contribute to the skill hunter title for all three titles, which makes them also Core? Of course going by the strict definition it's a Nightfall skill, and the guy who handled this update probably didn't think about it. --Ruine Eternelle 22:17, 25 April 2020 (UTC)

Seeing as it doesn't meet the definition of a Core skill as defined, but was added to Core by the ever so thoughtful devs, is it possible for us to simply add an asterix with some sort of hover note explaining that it isn't available to all campaigns as other Core skills are? That or even, and this is a long shot, maybe a new color for the Anniversary Elite skills, since they all stand apart from the Core skills to which they were added? (I have never wiki edited, I don't know the limitations, so please forgive me if my suggestions are undoable). --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:ZV1 (talk).

The main thing is that nearly all of these pages were made well before the update, and there's not really enough active editors to do a full sweep of the wiki. That said, this change should be fairly simple - just a category check to separate them out from the main list. I'll do it later when I get a chance. horrible | contribs 15:45, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

I disagree with your change. You've now made it so that the Anniversary skills, which are core skills according to the game, are not accessible except from the note at the top of the main article. They should be included in all of the relevant tables of core skills, because they are core skills. You also created four essentially blank articles, which was pretty silly. elix Omni 05:45, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

OK. I've gone ahead and reverted the changes, and marked the empty pages for A1 deletion. horrible | contribs 06:08, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Is my understanding correct? Atm the 6 "List of core xxx skills" of the core professions do contain the anniversary skills, while the 4 non-core profession lists have been marked for speedy deletion? That's pretty inconsistent. Gonna add each anniversary skill and have a discussion. Steve1 (talk) 20:15, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Felix: Creating the 4 lists wasn't silly - he should've just made sure that each anniversary skill is included. Steve1 (talk) 20:40, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

A list of one is still a valid list and I support consistency. - Infinite - talk 21:14, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

For reference, they were lists of 0 at the time of Felix's comment. horrible | contribs 21:48, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

yes, that's why I wrote that you "should've just made sure that each anniversary skill is included". Steve1 (talk) 22:00, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

I made the pages to remove red links. The rest of the edits in that series were to remove anniversary skills from core lists. having them on those four pages would have been in direct contrast to those edits. horrible | contribs 22:05, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

The only way I think this skill could see PvE play...

...is to change it to "Weapon Attack: If this attack hits, you deal +5...17...20 holy damage, and target foe and all foes in the area are knocked down for 1...2...3 seconds. This attack ignores all conditions, and has melee range." The recharge can be taken back to 15 seconds at this point. It'd be an AoE clutch knock-down move to save the day in PvE. Thoughts? --Ulterion1338 (talk) 15:22, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I suggested the reduced recharge and higher damage scaling. Why do you think it needs change? - - Ruine Eternelle 15:26, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I think it's just unreliable. All it does is counter melee attackers, and requires a melee weapon to use. If the requirement's loosened to all weapons (staves included), and is given an unconditional knock-down, then this elite becomes that much more applicable and useful. Just my thoughts on this elite. If I'm wrong about anything, then please correct me. --Ulterion1338 (talk) 16:32, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

It's as you said, the kd is unreliable, although the AI attacking whenever they get the chance should help.

This is still a 8s recharge AoE melee attack. For non-monks the damage is decent with 0 divine favor, for monks it's good with 12-16 and it works well with the new hammer "verdict". --Ruine Eternelle 17:25, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Have it deal burning damage and/or double damage to summoned creatures. Monk needs more condition inflicting options. ^_^ --Falconeye (talk) 19:12, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I was thinking more along the lines of a melee version of Psychic instability, or an AoE melee-attack variant of the skill "Shock" without the exhaustion. If it has to stay the way it is now though, then it should at the very least be changed to almost guarantee up to a 3 second knock-down. If it must be conditional, then why not make it as easy as possible and let it knock down foes if they're attacking, moving, or using a skill? It even fits the theme of this skill that much more. So the only way to land the kd is if the foe's actively doing anything at all. The counter would be for the foe to literally do nothing at all. --Ulterion1338 (talk) 12:56, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Earthbind has that covered; any ST-Communing hero cans easily slap that on, and everyone runs that build these days. --Falconeye (talk) 14:26, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

I tried to like this skill but it's just bad for a monk. Even against undead it's bad because they tend to have anti martial skills already anyhow. Will try some more but I'm just not impressed with it. If they never made Deldrimor light and introduced it as this skill elite it would be better imo. Justice (talk) 02:15, 28 July 2020 (UTC)