User talk:Regina Buenaobra/Archive Community and Website/July 2008

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Why add 30,200 Minutes of favor?

Dear Regina Buenaobra

I just got back from the beach on July 3rd and was expecting to see little to no Favor of the Gods remaining. The last time I logged on, the favor was at a mere 100 minutes. When I logged on today I was flabbergasted to see 29,000+ minutes of favor. My heart sunk when I laid eyes on this because I had not planned on this favor buff and was ill informed of it as well.

I know that by adding this favor the developers might have thought they were doing Guild Wars players in turn a favor, but not for me. I had invested the majority of my platinum in Globs of Ectoplasm and Underworld/Fissure of Woe passage scrolls. This investment would turn to profit because of the depletion of favor and the recent Shadow Form update and the increase of Ectoplasm and Scroll prices at the trader. This investment will now turn a loss that I am unhappy about.

I am a boyscout and our motto is to "Be Prepared". I was certainly prepared for the favor going down to zero. I was as prepared as I could be to turn a profit. Not once did the thought of having 30,200 minutes of favor added back into the game with no warning. I know that Guild Wars is only a game but I think that favor should be earned, not given out. I was prepared for the favor timer running to zero but, I was unprepared for the human alterations to the timer that I had no prior knowledge of. Being prepared is a good thing as long as you know all of what can possibly happen. In this case the untold possibilities worked against me.

I was reading one forum that had a quote with information of the developers adding this favor because of the loss of favor six months ago. I think it was directly posted by you, Regina Buenaobra, but I am unsure about that as I did not bookmark it. That sounds like a wonderful idea if only the developers told the players about it beforehand. Adding 30,000 minutes of favor in the last 100 minutes is absurd and sounds ill contrived to me.

Please Explain this idea of adding 30,000+ minutes of free favor.

Thank You

Nick F. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:King swift (talk).

Back with the last double Sunspear/Ligntbringer points weekend, the playerbase managed to go over the maximum limit of favor allowed, which inadvertently reset the timer back to zero, effectively erasing the 30,000-some minutes accumulated at that time. While no notice was given that we were going to get that lost time back, the 30,000 minutes given back were earned by the playerbase; i.e. they were not "given out." Kokuou 03:30, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
One more point: converting your money into ectoplasm is effectively playing the GW stock market. That is, you don't know when the price will drop or increase, so you assume the risk of decreased value. Albeit the GW "stock market" has different rules than the real-life one, the risks are the same. Kokuou 03:32, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed with Kokuou. Many people, with the release of Nightfall, found their weapons were suddenly worthless due to the lack of inscriptions, this happened again with GW:EN when people lost money on elemental swords and platinum weapons, due to their increased drop rate. Playing the GW market has always been a risky thing, as it should be, take others for example who turned their platinum into ecto when it was 7k a glob instead of the 3k a glob it fell to. Playing the market has always been risky and always will be. -- Salome User salome sig.png 04:30, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Echoing Salome and Kokuou: you took a risk, gambled on a commodity market, it didn't play out, that's life. Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 04:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Or, you know, you had more than 1000k + 100k per character in gold and ectos seemed stable enough to store the extra in. --64.202.126.223 05:01, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
To quote the original commenter: "I had invested the majority of my platinum in Globs of Ectoplasm and Underworld/Fissure of Woe passage scrolls. This investment would turn to profit because of the depletion of favor and the recent Shadow Form update and the increase of Ectoplasm and Scroll prices at the trader. This investment will now turn a loss that I am unhappy about."
Besides, if you have that much money, you really don't have much to worry about in the first place. Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 05:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
A hypothetical, and yeah, but the limit is still dumb. :( --64.202.126.223 05:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Haven't they amended the limit recently to make sure that it such a rollback will never happen? Renin 05:47, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
You obviously were not prepared for this :D This is exactly why ninjas are more useful than boy scouts. 218.214.126.215 06:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
1) if you invested in scrolls, then its your own fault, you tried to take advantaged of something and failed because favor went up again and 2) It is a GAME, it's for fun, not to be taken seriously etc. If you do something like buy scrolls to turn a profit later on and it doesn't work out, then NO BIG DEAL, plenty of other ways to make money. And as I said, it's just a game, don't take it so seriously like most people seem to <_< --Stu 08:24, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes your investments/bets win, sometimes they just bite you in the backside. Looks like it wasn't your day; just be grateful it wasn't in real life. -- Sirius (talk) 11:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Going back to what Kokuou wrote, "Back with the last double Sunspear/Ligntbringer points weekend, the playerbase managed to go over the maximum limit of favor allowed, which inadvertently reset the timer back to zero, effectively erasing the 30,000-some minutes accumulated at that time." I understand that part, what I don't understand is why give us back this favor even though the favor is capped at 35,000 minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong but I know that despite the loss of those 30,000 minutes we managed to get another 21,000 which is way over the cap. Which is also another reason why I think this decision is "ill contrived." --- King Swift

"You obviously were not prepared for this." That is where you are wrong. I was prepared for a loss or a gain, that is why I invested in the "Guild Wars stock market". I just over anticipated the drain out of "infinite favor" and I was disappointed to see that 30k favor was added. I also think that was an immature comment so please don' comment again.--- King Swift

Nothing was "ill-contrived." Not sure what the cap was before, but I'm pretty sure they've fixed it since then. And you can't really expect them to tell us everything they're going to do in advance. For one, it's their prerogative, and besides, we wouldn't want another Martha Stewart situation, would we? (That's a joke.) Kokuou 16:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Regina said in her chat session last night that it was indeed done to restore the lost favour. Nothing bad happened, all that ANet did was simply to right a wrong that had been caused by a flawed favour system. It might suck for those who invested in scrolls or whatever, but hey, that's the risk of investment. ANet fixed something- people ought to be happy about it, not angry. Geez. -- User Elveh sig.png Elv 16:24, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Again I still lack information about this so until I get some quality information from someone who knows what they are talking about, I could care less what other people have to say about the favor boost. I am sure I am not the only person that feels that this was a last minute annexation and "ill-contrived" King Swift

  • Regina said this in her chat session in game last night. Since this is Regina's talk page, I thought that you might like to hear what Regina had to say about it. Wiki has no logs for Regina-chat it seems, but I'm sure there's plenty of fansites (Guru, GWO etc.) that have the screenies up by now. You might want to go look and see for yourself.
  • Define "quality information", maybe? If you don't want to believe an eye-witness who tells you what Regina said last night, do you then define "quality information" as Regina basically telling you the exact same thing people have been trying to tell you all along?
  • There was a pretty big uproar when the favour was initially lost, and many people wanted the lost minutes to be restored. It didn't happen right away, but that doesn't take away the fact that a) many people wanted it like this, and b) ANet took the time to be nice and return to the playerbase what they had legitimately earned, albeit a bit late.
People who responded to your post knew very well what they were talking about, so before you go off to insult them again, maybe you should spend some time looking for some screenies of Regina saying what people told you she has said. You might still not like the answer, but at least you can stop whining about who it is that answered your question that way. -- User Elveh sig.png Elv 17:11, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I am pretty sure that I did not insult anybody. I am just waiting for information from a reliable source. I don't personally know anyone on this wiki so anyone posting could be the most unreliable person on the planet. Keep in mind that anyone can post whatever they want on wiki and information you recieve may not be true. If you would look at things from my point of view you might understand that part.

Does hearing it straight from Regina work for you? That's her post about it on the GWO forums. Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 03:09, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) You may want to take a look at GWW:AGF, then. Here, we assume good faith in other contributors. If you want an answer strictly from Regina, then you can always email her directly. Otherwise, as this is a community-run site, you'll have to deal with other community members answering your questions as well. Kokuou 03:12, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed with Aiiane, Kokuou and Elv. This is a community run site, if you don't want answers from the community, don't post here and send an email instead. However if you do deem to post here, you must assume good faith in the answers you get. -- Salome User salome sig.png 03:23, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
You might want to know that 30,000 favor only equals 28 days. So by mid-august it will be set and done. They just though that adding the striped favor back when it was low was the best thing to do. There mistake was not adding it to the game updates. Your investment will hold up in the end. Dominator Matrix 03:40, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
To King Swift, to clarify: telling people that they don't know what they're talking about is belittling, and pretty much equals calling them stupid or ignorant. People here commented to kindly help you to an answer to your question, so your comment was in fact very rude. Your attitude of assuming bad faith- assuming that everyone here was wrong or lying to you- is also rude, and I'm probably not the only one here who takes offense at being given a derogatory attitude when all I do is give you an answer. None of us deserve to be made out as stupid, ignorant, or lying, so please do what Kokuou suggested, and have a look at that policy. We're not evil people just because you didn't like the answer you were given. Now that you've been provided with a quote directly from Regina, I hope you'll reconsider and believe us next time you decide to post your question on a community-run website. -- User Elveh sig.png Elv 06:28, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Jeez is it that hard to enjoy a game without whining on A-net's every move. Freakin hell just play and have fun instead of playing to be rich. If you want to be rich go find a job or something. --MageUser MageMontu sig.pngMontu 09:29, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Nick. F.,We restored what was incorrectly taken from the players 7 months ago. We thought it would be a nice surprise, seeing as how Favor of the Gods was in danger of running down to zero. By choosing to speculate on commodities like Ectos, you knowingly assumed the risk of that speculation, and unfortunately according to you, that risk did not pay off in this instance. It's unfortunate that you suffered a loss, but that's the risk you took in the first place. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:38, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Guild Wars Official Website and the Lack of GMT

I am expressing my disappointment, particularly in relation to the Dragon Festival event times, that I can't see the event times presented in GMT. I understand that this is an American-made game, but with a thoroughly international player-base I find myself perplexed that event times are either not presented using the global reference point or buried far enough that I simply can't see it. The latest snub. What are the chances that such information can be presented in an internationally readable format in future? -- WarBlade 07:05, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Not sure if you missed the message at the bottom of that screen saying, "All times are listed in Pacific Daylight Time, which is -7 GMT. Missions will be available for 30 minutes." If all you want is GMT, it's not that hard to add seven hours to, say, 11:00. Kokuou 07:11, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
From your link, in readable, high-contrast letters right where you'd expect an addendum to be: " * All times are listed in Pacific Daylight Time, which is -7 GMT. Missions will be available for 30 minutes."
Math isn't hard. --64.202.126.223 07:12, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and there's also this that gives all times in GMT, no batteries math required! Kokuou 07:31, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
this kind of confusion happens every year they need to just have an event timer/countdown. in game that would tell everyone when the main events are taking place. 75.172.47.75 07:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Immerse us in the world, give us a TST Tyrian Standard Time reference :P 000.00.00.00 08:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi Warblade, there are pros and cons to using Pacific US time as standard for our events, and including notes about GMT at the bottom. We understand that it's not convenient to convert the published times to your local time, but for those living outside GMT, it would be the same -- they would have to convert the time as well. At my previous company, we published event times in Eastern US time, though the company itself was on Pacific US time, so as you can see choosing one time zone will exclude every other time zone. We do understand the rationale behind your suggestion to publish times in GMT, because it's more international. At this time, there are no plans to change published times from Pacific to GMT. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 17:44, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


Arenanet's Current View on the Community?

Seems there's more hostility from the community towards Arenanet right now than you can swing a stick; I was just wondering how Arenanet is viewing all this? You yourself Regina, have said you've taking a lot of heat from the community of late, I'd say more because of Guild War 2 and Ursan, and was curious as to how those at Arenanet still directly involved with Guild Wars are viewing it. 000.00.00.00 10:09, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

I hope they don't take it too seriously. There are still plenty of GW players and its always the same few names ranting on Guru and the Shadowform/Ursan pages. Sadie2k 10:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Much hostility now? I beg to differ. The majority reacted positive to both the favor added and the SF changes, most people have been positive towards the latest balance changes as well. If anything, people are waiting for more of the same (i.e. a similar nerf to ursan and more balance changes). There are always some people who complain, but compared to other situations (e.g. the PvE paragons at the time of paragon nerfs, or PvE necromancers when soul reaping was nerfed, or HA players during 6vs6) I'd say that ANet is enjoying good feedback right now. --Xeeron 12:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
I remember a french politician saying "I'm hearing to complaints of people who are demonstrating but I'm also able to hear those who are not complaining". He was very criticized for this sentence though I think there is some truth in it. That said I really hope (in fact I'm quite sure) that people at Anet know that for one player complaining all the time there is at least fifty people who are quite satisfied with the game and grateful for their attention towards us ;).Cornflakeboy 12:07, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
It's a shame that people always tend to be quick to let you knwo when they are anry or unhappy, but not when they are grateful, happy and satisfied. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 15:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
And when you DO let the devs know that you're happy and hopeful, as I did on the first (now archived) thread on the Shadow Form changes, it degenerates into another Ursan flamewar within eight posts. --User mrsmiles tinysmile.png MrSmiles 22:00, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
lets start another ursan flamewar right here! --Cursed Angel talk 02:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Arena Net is getting screamed and yell at as well...there cornered. There delivering hidden updates (30k favor), there not fixing major issued EG. Ursan, and there keeping there mouth shut when it comes to GW2 because if they say they will add something to GW2 and don't hold promise...theres gonna to be a war. I don't think Areana Net has any view on this as...what kind of view can you really take hold of? Dominator Matrix 03:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't think there are any significant changes in how ArenaNet views the player community. For every complaint and rant posted, they know that behind that is a passionate gamer. They take the criticisms with a grain of salt. They're also well aware that people who have complaints are more likely to post than those who are happy and are off playing the game instead of posting on forums. ArenaNet is keenly aware that the community is growing impatient at the lack of GW2 information, however player impatience and frustration will not force us to reveal information before we're ready. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 15:58, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


Any plans for an Offical GW forums?

Why dont you guys open up an Offical Guild Wars forums instead of this Wiki junk Arenanet? It ONLY cost $50AUS ($45US) a year to host it. Put OUR money to a real use please--122.108.8.47 06:00, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Because they already post on numerous fan forums, and it doesn't really make much sense to worry about moderating yet another set of forums with no real additional benefit? Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 06:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Typical GW player response. I was asking Regina, not you. The GW Fansites are as corrupt as the US Senate and they have various gold seller ads on them. GW Guru especially doesnt support freedom of speach. GW is the only Massively Multiplayer game i know of that doesnt have its own forums.--122.108.8.47 07:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
its true guru is really bad they don't know how to moderate there forums.... they closed a thread of myen because it was "too close to another thread" if you read it you would fastly realize that it had nothing to do with the other thread. and when i asked them about it they couldnt come up with a reply.75.165.113.128 07:18, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Try another forum then? If what your posting is getting removed/closed/locked on multiple forums, perhaps there's a reason? You seem to have had a bad experience with one fansite and are extending it to all of them.
Answer me this, though: what benefits would official forums give you that fansite forums don't? Official forums would be moderated too...or if they weren't, they'd be utterly pointless because most topics would just devolve into flame wars/troll fests. Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 08:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
"Put OUR money to a real use please" -> GW Maintenance Costs + Official GW Site cost + GW2 Development Costs + Others? What better use? I would not like the idea of adding an Official Forums costs to the list (Your 50$ yearly + Maintenance). Peace --Nekki 11:39, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Also if you want a direct response from Regina use the email command, not a post on the talk page, as this is a community run site not a private forum. -- Salome User salome sig.png 16:11, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I don't for a second believe it would only cost $50 a year to host it. Sure you can *get* hosting for that much, but as soon as you get any amount of people using it they'll cut you off. Good servers cost a fair bit more, and even without that there's costs involved in moderating and maintaining the forums. User Purple llama sig.png purple llama 16:48, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
20$ to 30$ a month more likely for medium sized servers. But money isn't the problem I think. ANet is getting yelled at enough on the wiki already ^^ HeavenMonkey 12:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
The opinion here is that if we opened up official forums, this would pull most community activity away from the fan forums. Official forums and fan forums would almost be competing with each other for player activitiy. People believe that official would have a massive negative effect on the fan forums, and that's something that people are not entirely comfortable with. If there was an offiical forum, why would new players bother going to any of the fan forums? A lot of people like the fact that fan forums are independent and aren't owned by a corporation. Unfortunately, fan forums' independence also means that they are free to moderate according to their standards. Right now, though, we believe the benefits of fan forums outweighs the benefits of having official forums.
Forum hosting costs are just a part of the financial considerations. Forum moderation for something as big as the Guild Wars franchise is a full time job. We would have to hire additional staff just to be forum moderators, and it would cost thousands of dollars to hire just one person for English-language forums (for example). If we have official forums in English, we'd have to have official forums in at least German, Spanish, and French, and of course we would need to hire staff to moderate those forums as well. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:28, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
i would moderate them for "free" ie i get info about guildwars2 before everyone else =D75.172.47.75 21:10, 8 July 2008 (UTC)


Am I right in saying this?

Is ANet completely clueless about how to maintain GW properly? Adding close to 30k minutes of favour? Nerfing a fuckload of skills to oblivion rather than balancing them? Example being killing shadow form rather than just killing chaos planes farming. And the much debated topic, ursan. No, I'm not even going to explain, we've said it to you all a hundred fucking times. We've now been waiting close to a MONTH for a decent PvP update, there's still a shitload of skills that are broken as fuck, and yet Izzy seems to suck balls to the point where he can't identify the imbalanced skills. Admittently, he HAS gotten a little better lately, but nowhere near enough for a professional company, running a highly popular RPG. I'm beginning to doubt ANet, a LOT. I know, you've got GW2 coming and everything, but perhaps hire a few more people if you can't keep up with making a game and maintaining another? I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that agree with me.

no. --Ravious 13:16, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

(ec)Teh ragez! But I agree with guy above, as far as I see game updates dont get better, they get worse, SF nerf is a good example of the low update planning, yeajh chaos plains solofarming and above it all uw speedclears were (I think I should explain) 4 shadow form tanks and norn blessing squad was clearing uw in mere minutes (15 minute uw fullclear anyone?) was killing the economy but not sf farming in general! It was normal farming with normal results, you could just kill chaos plains farming by adding minfray spectres everywere it would even be challenging to fight mobs that kill the most common source of defense of enchantements and tanking as it is but no, anet kept chaos plains farming but made it jut slightly less productive but nerfed the poor sf skill to oblivion of disuse (except running) killing HUGE ammounts of innocent non-chaos plains builds that didnt do any more damage to economt than any other farming build. Same for pvp, wounding strike for the fuck of it, dw covered by bleeding every 3 seconds is just mad! not to mention all of soj abuse...and we see it for loooong time now ithout any change to it, no comment about ursan... --Super Igor 13:19, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Igor, I always thought you were fail as fuck on PvX, but you couldn't be more right about wounding strike. The issue there is AoE bleed and DW on 3 people at once. Dervishes are just the most BROKEN of classes. All because of the scythe, and the way other primaries can abuse it too, examples were warrior, ranger and assassin. Back in the day of steady stance... hurr. 80.193.1.106 13:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

GW PServs... If only. There's probably hundreds of incredible skills balancers out there. 80.193.1.106 13:25, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

These raging posts are a symptom, a symptom of bad game balance. They will only increase as GW2 gets closers to release. I'll just repeat what the OP said in a more graceful manner: Get your act together or you'll really go down with GW2. -- NUKLEAR User NuclearVII signature 3.jpgIIV 14:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Well you were fail as fuck thinking so about me, IP guy. :P --Super Igor User Super Igor siggy.jpg 14:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
@the original unsigned comment: Regina has stated repeatedly that anet is in the process of hiring additional help to manage GW while the rest of the team focuses on GW2. --User mrsmiles tinysmile.png MrSmiles 16:05, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Oh noez moar Izzy's :< --Super Igor User Super Igor siggy.jpg 16:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Isn't cursing prohibited in such a well known profile such as Regina's? While we all know how you and hundreds of people feel, and no doubt I feel the same, isn't there a better and creative way of venting out such frustration? Rather than use such words, and where YOUNGER members can read such words, wouldn't it be more widely accepted to use other terms? Renin 16:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Kids would grow up in the 1800's in countries other than America (they exist, you know) with fear of war, rape, fires burning whole towns, starvation, all that. And you're complaining about reading bad words on the internet. Fuck no, the kids grow up anyway. All you're doing is babying the children and not childrenizing them. That's right. Vael Victus Pancakes. 14:06, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Renin. No reason for innappropriate language. If you're asking for professional results, be professional in requesting it. Wetwillyhip 18:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Cursing isn't prohibited on the wiki. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 19:37, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
but it isn't ideal--Sum Mesmer GuyTalk to me NOW!! DO IT! contribs 19:38, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
Exactly. It's neither ideal nor the way to get a response from someone. And really, if you're upset about PvP balance, maybe you should be bringing it up to, oh I don't know, the actual skill balancer? Kokuou 20:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
He doesnt care does he? :'( --Super Igor User Super Igor siggy.jpg 20:07, 5 July 2008 (UTC)


Firstly, I echo what the others have stated, the swearing was needless. Secondly, Kokuou, we could post skill suggestions/feedback/general 'woots' about stuff all over this wiki yet doesn't mean that Isaiah has actually checked. With hundreds of skills and a mass of pages on the wiki [even just limiting it to the more direct to him or individuals or a whole at Arenanet] one has to question, considering the mass interest within Arenanet on Guild Wars 2, if he [or any of them] has actually bothered to look and read or is very aware of Guild Wars in the sense of monitoring the game. Same with most at Arenanet. One of the last things Regina said was there was staffing issues in regards to Guild Wars and they weren't resolved yet. Since the PvP/PvE split Arenanet have the opportuntity to do some interest month stuff with the skills, primarily for PvP and it would be nice to see this happen, but one has to question if this is going to happen. Though I do not play PvP much I don't agree with peoples complaints of the aoe 'brokeniness' of the Dervish or Wounding Strike (I mean its PvP, from what I've watched very few sound close enough together for the scythe's aoe factor of attack effect anyway, the spammability yeah anyone can see that though), but its PvP, they could change the skill or the mechanics of it just as any other skills to make PvP more balanced or more interesting. It would be nice to see a mass effort to balance out the game, and I mean mass effort. Yes, thats probably unrealistic thinking on my part but both aspect of the game could use love from the developers from both the PvP and PvE aspect. There are many issues that could be addressed. From what I see many would like the Professions looked over, skills need to be pulled in line, in PvE the consumables to be rethought and the list goes on. I've been doing my own observing of the game, over the two week, focusing on PvE pugs and I have seen much a dramatic shift in play styles since Eye of the North come out, the Ursan button, and its concerning me. Arenanet say they see such stuff but the 'rage' is building and spilling over, it can make you question if Arenanet is capability [taking Guild Wars staffing issues within Arenanet into consideration]. For the most part I enjoy the game, yet I've said it so many times before, Arenanet is responsibile for the game, their discussions can influence the players to the core as we all have seen, and they have seen [cough Ursan cough], they have all the power but aren't in the tendancy to use it. Would love Guild Wars to get the more desirable amount of developer attention, over a year and a half till Guild Wars 2 (at best) and it is concerning to hear Arenanet is having staffing issues, its even more concerning its taking them this long to get on top of it. Guild Wars 2 can be the most amazing thing you could ever hope to do, but neglecting Guild Wars is unadvisable. You may not at your end, Arenanet, but spend some time in game and you can see that people are angry, just read the original poster. Yes, a lot of people enjoy the game, but one must question why? If PvE is anything to assume, its Ursan, because thats what most people use second only to Res Signet. PvP, I can not really give a view on as I don't spend nearly enough time on it. Eh, I feel that become a rant. Eh, the rage spreads or its just that I'm posting in the early morning and don't have my wiki face on yet :P 000.00.00.00 20:36, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Actually PvP and you won't be wrong. It's not just the AoE damage. It's DW covered by bleed every few seconds, with ~100 autoattack damage. If anyone tries to lineback, it becomes TWO lots of deep wound covered to deal with. You really have NO idea how much pressure that can mount to from one person. Why do you think dervsmite/dervtrain rolls people within 90 seconds or so in GvGs? And I disagree, swearing was needed, since nothing else seems to work to attract attention. 82.34.128.95 12:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
With regards of their staffing issue, they really won't have that issue if GW1 and GW2 is a subscription based game. From what I've seen with other popular subscription based one, they get more attention that WE clamor for. Of course, Subscription model will NEVER be Guild Wars style, and for that (to me at least) they have the excuse to not be able to give as much focus. You see, if they had more money then there will definitely be more resources to hire more staff to push GW2 and take care of GW1, but that's not the case. From a business perspective, it is understandable completely that they would rather focus on an IP that will generate money. One of the other reason for them creating GW2 is the fact that the skills we now grow to love and hate is so bloated (it was their own doing) that ANYONE will/is be having a hard time balancing ALL of them. I'm sure alot of you folks can say that "I" can do better, but if you really think hard about it; it truly is a gargantuan task. Renin 03:53, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
No it's not gargantuan. You look at what is broken as fuck in PvP and PvE, and pull it in line rather than nerf it to oblivion. At this point we have a game that we can PLAY. Then you can do the rather unnecessary task of buffing all the useless skills until they can and will be used. It's nowhere NEAR as hard as it sounds. 82.34.128.95 12:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
lol they cant just put in line lol they need to NERF INTO OBLIVION YEAAH!! Even ws, they wont balance it to say 8 seconds no, they will give it 15 energy cost and 20 rechrge muahahahaha thats how anet balances!! :P --Super Igor User Super Igor siggy.jpg 12:59, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Like what people say, "EASIER SAID than done." Renin 13:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


Anonymous, we know that not everyone is going to agree to the changes we make to the game. The reason for adding favor was to correct a mistake that was made months ago, and I've already explained the reasons for this decision multiple times. You disagree with adding favor. Moving on, skill balacing. Any skill balance is going to be met with arguments for and against. Shadow Form wasn't "nerfed to oblivion", it's still a viable skill. People have criticized the fact that it affected other farming builds, and as I have also said in multiple places, the design team is keeping an eye on it, so we may change Shadow Form again. Game design is as much art as it is science, and you can't plan for absolutely every possible result. Izzy is in constant contact with the player community to get skill feedback and suggestions, but at the end of the day, he and the other designers make their decisions for the good of the game as a whole, and with the information they have available at the time. The reason behind less frequent skill balance updates is because we're increasing development resources on Guild Wars 2. With the idea of maintenance of the current game in mind and balancing that with the priority of developing GW2, the decision was made to have less frequent skill balance updates and time them with tournament reward points at the beginning of each month.--Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 21:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


Hero battle finals

What influenced the decision of who the winner was? (it was a draw) — Skakid 22:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Doesnt it go by the last person who capped a point? --TalkWild 04:27, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Nope. The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 19:01, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Isaiah's checking on this. Will keep you posted.--Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 22:37, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
A week has past since then, any news?Dutchsmurf 22:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Hey, Dutchsmurf. Here's what Izzy reported to me. At the end of the match, there are two checks performed to determine outcome: one to see who has won the game, and the other to see which team to kill and to display the result. The score was 18 to 17 and the check to see the winner was performed. Smurf got the 18th point in between the check to see who won and the check to see who to kill. Because the last point was gained in between the two checks, it awarded the win to the other guy -- this was correct since Smurf got the final point after the winner had already been decided -- however it incorrectly killed both teams, and displayed the points as 18 to 18 instead of 18 to 17. The chances of this situation ever happening was very small, but we're working on a fix that makes sure this doesn't happen again. Hope that clarifies it.--Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 23:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Dragon Arena has a similar bug, I've reported it at ArenaNet talk:Miscellaneous bugs#Dragon Arena tie bug. -- Gordon Ecker 02:31, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that's a tricksy little slow race condition or something, glad they could even find it :D --Star Weaver 13:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm told that it's an uncommon thing to have happened, because the two checks are within miliseconds of each other. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Still there should've been an rematch or something as this is purely a case of bad luck and that should not have any effect of the outcome of a match. 217.123.100.191 16:48, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
What the anon said. The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 23:47, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Izzy's working on making changes to ensure this doesn't happen in the future. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 22:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Bad application design, more likely. 218.214.126.215 00:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
The stated situation is impossible. Smurf was holding 3 shrines at the end, which should have given him 3 points. This means he was on 15 originally, not 17. The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 00:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Logically the check should happen at the same time during every HB. The points which got Smurf to 18 were gained exactly on the 10 minute mark, as they were shrine points. This means that during HB, every single match end should land in this tiny check, however this does not happen as people regularly win by going above their opponent at the 10 minute mark. The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Rawr. 01:06, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


GW skill balance begins to make sense again

Not enough balances imo, but at least Izzy isn't actually sucking atm. With shadow form being reconsidered and a possible major Ursan nerf, GW might just be fixed soon. Oh yeh, when it comes to balances, keep listen to good players and high ranked guilds more than random kiddies moaning about stuff that isn't broken, or wanting stuff to be broken. We don't want (quite rare!) good progress to go down the drain. =] Napalm Flame 13:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC) /agree keep up the good work ANET, can't wait for massive PvE update 76.188.100.220 15:11, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Izzy didn't want to make too many balance changes this time around because the GW Guru tournament is this weekend. He thought it would be a bit evil to make a lot of PvP skill balance changes just before a big tournament. Izzy regularly consults with players in top guilds, so he isn't making these changes without any input at all. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:13, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Izzy SHOULD make huge amounts of balances before a tournament. It means people aren't so used to the meta, turns things on their head, and unveils some very interesting playstyles and builds. Napalm Flame 21:47, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I would like to direct the honourable gentleman in the direction of ViO and Me's gold cape. Lord of all tyria 21:49, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Yeah... balances before tournaments are a terrible idea. It focuses competition less on player skill and more on player skills, which is how Me and them won capes when everyone was still trying to figure the game out. -Auron 21:54, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Consults with players in top guilds? Nice to know he consults with the average player... 000.00.00.00 22:04, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
tbh, the average player is retarded. --76.25.197.215 23:00, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Part of player skill in the game is designing a good character and team build which works well. Skill balances before tournaments allow people who are good at playing but also good at building their own builds and adapting to other team's builds quickly to have a go instead of everyone running whatever they saw in observer or on wiki. 122.104.167.139 23:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
No, it allows terrible players like [Me] to get gold capes because their build wasn't touched while everyone else's was nerfed to hell. If the pre-tournament nerfs hit every overpowered gimmick, then fine, but that is obviously not the case, so the balances need to stay well away from tournament times. I think they've learned from their mistakes on this one, hence Izzy saying they'd wait. -Auron 00:42, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
The top level guilds are the ones he consults because they know the game better than anybody else, hands-down. They play a lot and know what's truly broken in a PvP situation. And it's not like he just talks to one guild, so his feedback doesn't tend to be biased. I'd rather he not consult the 'average player' - because the average player is likely not to understand the full ramifications of making a change made to certain skills. Izzy does a pretty good job when you consider he is the most likely to upset people when he makes his contributions. I don't envy him. Antialias02 17:13, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
I think the pple unhappy with consulting the top guilds point is along the lines of; they are the top guilds, not the ones which represent the average gamer. Skill balances work around minimising the optimum builds (aka skills) and making very few viable, the rest is trash. The top guilds are nothing like the majority of players - achieving the game they want to play is unfortunately often in contrast with the game the rest of the GW community want to play. Much of the skill balances are also focused on how people play, not even specific to overpowered or underpowered skills. 122.104.167.139 17:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Look at you guys, ripping on [Me] when I doubt any of you could use the so called broken shit they used to even make it to the top 400. You don't say they used broken shit to win just because you went on QQ forums and saw that the top guilds are ripping on them. They won due to the inability of their opponents making stupid mistakes. Their point was to win, not to gain shitty honor by winning by the...oh...boring ass balanced that the whole world f'n runs. Then the mAT when [dR] beat [Me], why the hell isn't anyone ripping on [dR]? Because they are a [QQ] [iQ] orgy stuffed into a guild called Dark Alley? They played broken shit too - AoD.


You Really Should Read The Ursan Talk Page

You are the Community Manager, are you not? I've avoided addressing you personally in the interest of respect for the greater powers - If you read a couple of my threads you would probably respect my restraint - but you really do need to read the Ursan Blessing Talk Page It's the most pressing issue ArenaNet is facing as a company. You don't even need to read all of it. Just the last one, 'Be At Peace Young Padawan.' Its concerning to me as a player to see such hate directed at you personally and at ArenaNet as a whole. I don't hope to do your job for you but you seriously need to address these people before your company's funds plumet, and who do you think both the players AND the company are going to blame? I understand if your boss has told you, 'We can't do anything for them because we're struggling financially,' but you need to tell him that its just the beginning and that he has a bleak future if he doesn't let you do your job. People are genuinely sad about the inaction and a tactical change isn't going to solve that one iota. Something much more drastic has to happen. Its a lose/lose situation, but you gotta be brave and actually talk to the people as a person and not as a node in the company's network. Please, do it for you - heal the community's wounds. I don't mind if you archive this straight away in the hope no other anti-ursans take it as an opportunity to vent, just so long as you take me seriously. Actually talk to them and help them understand. Brave the insults, they just want their petty fun. Spawnlegacy 08:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Regina, I should ask you to archive this as soon as you have acknowledged it. The wiki community believes they are the authority on you and I would prefer to hear what a CM does in preparation for a sequal from the ends of your fingers, not theirs. Also, as much as they make it seem, I'm not looking for new information, I'm merely looking for a more personal approach when dealing with the tough issues. Those who are angry about Ursan Blessing, including me, need to be validated with more than concise facts. Non-chronologically ordered by Spawnlegacy 10:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC) A more private channel should have been used and for that I apologise.

When will ppl learn to read the Developer Updates --MageUser MageMontu sig.pngMontu 08:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Spawn makes reference to the Update in his post, MageMontu, tactical change. 000.00.00.00 08:18, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
"Tactical change" is likely an euphemism for "nerfing". We already know Arena Net is going to take action, we already know that the circunstances surrounding GW1 have changed last month - I'm ok with taking that as Arena Net's answer and waiting for the incoming Ursan nerf before complaining about the skill again (as long as that's not another 6 months wait : P). Erasculio 11:15, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
We can debate the wording and euphemism of potential action in regards to Ursan until the sun decides not to fall, but its another waiting game. 000.00.00.00 12:19, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't requesting an Ursan kill. I was just asking Regina to be a little empathetic and actually console a large part of her distressed community. Her job isn't just to relay facts I'm sure. Please, if you're not Regina, don't reply to this thread before she's even had the courtesy of reading it. Spawnlegacy

As far as I know she has consoled the community, maybe not as much as we all want but she does her job. You have to understand that with the impending GW2, she has more work now than the previous CM had. As I'm sure Gaile had her stress when GW was about to launch, just that it's much more different this time because there's already a community that has their own expectation. Renin 06:32, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Once again, allow her to speak for herself on her own talk page. She doesn't need your defense when no one is attacking her. Spawnlegacy 08:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"I was just asking Regina to be a little empathetic and actually console a large part of her distressed community." You say you're not attacking her, but then make statements like this that imply otherwise. If you're going to post on a public talk page, expect comments from the public. If all you want is to talk to Regina, that's what the community@arena.net email address is for. Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 08:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Very well. I do hope she archives this straight away so another 6 people don't find themselves standing in defense of someone who hasn't been insulted and hasn't even made a response. Surely deleting this thread will not only make you happy but make it all that much easier to solve the community's issues. God, it's hard enough getting an audience without everyone desecrating the plea before its heard. Respect my restraint aye.. Let her do her job aye.. I'm not going to entertain this pointless war any further so picking holes in my plea will be more pointless than it was before. Go away. Spawnlegacy 09:02, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
While there are several of your so-called "holes" in your plea, the point stands that Regina has told us that she has said all that there is to say about Ursan and won't talk about it on her page anymore. Do you think she hasn't read the Ursan Blessing talk page? You might, but I personally don't believe that for a second. Unless she has some other super secret job at ArenaNet and the CRM gig is just a ploy to divert our attention, I'm pretty sure she's doing her job and relaying back to the community all that she is allowed to as permitted by the dev team. Seriously, every time someone asks about this, it sounds like children constantly saying, "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?" The amount of impatience here is gargantuan. Kokuou 01:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
And yet when you can clear FoW in Hard Mode in under 1:15 with 2 leechers, a monk who left, and cons, something is wrong. Name one other skill that when put on 4 people's skill bar, and mixed with one HB lets a team (even a skilled one) do that and I (and I think the majority of the other people complaining here) will shut up. While some people would be complaining no matter how fast the response time on an issue like this was, the amount of time it has taken to even get an acknowledgment that they may do something is just plain absurd. This is a classic syndrome with Anet. They say they are listening, then they take pages of carefully written, well thought out suggestions with valid reasons, and then they just ignore them. It happened in the past with Gaile, and its even worse now. The CRM is supposed to talk to people, give them a clue what is going on. We don't need to the inner workings of every little bit of programming going on, but we want to know why they are doing y when x needs attention, or what the reason for z change was.
In all honesty, how can you not expect people to be fed up, and resort to name calling, and generally childish behaviors as well as painfully bad bits of sarcasm and the like. If people see no evidence that those whose job it is to read and think about what people write, then they generally will stop putting any effort into doing it since they see it as a wasted effort. The final result of all this is that many of the players who actually want to get their asses handed to them on a platter a few times before achieving something move on. If its not difficult whats the point? Once everyone has it its not "cool" or "elite". Whoopty Friggin Do if not everyone can do something. That means that it is a way for skilled players to show off their abilities for all to see. The real drawback is that some things are really difficult for certain proffessions, and unfortunately that is mainly Anet's fault for not balancing the pve aspect of the game, and that brings us back to how a "better than everything else" bandage fixes absolutely nothing because nothing else gets used for the so called "elite areas" and its just to freaking easy. Again, name one skill other than ursan blessing, that lets 4 people with it, and one monk complete the second half of the fissure of Woe quests and I think everyone will shut up about Ursan. Kelvin Greyheart 03:14, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
So you expect the CRM to hold your hand everytime someone rants/complains? When rants and complains occur on such a daily basis? Instead of reading, well I don't know, the dev updates? Renin 03:31, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
No, I expect the CRM to answer questions not answered in the dev updates. I expect the CRM to be there to offer insight about why they are being cautious about something rather than just blowing everyone off with the generic stuff about working on the next campaign/guildwars 2. The excuse of we don't want to effect a huge portion of players just doesn't add up. If that many people are using something, isn't that reason enough to break it? As I said, I don't expect to know about every bit of code down to the last if statement and do-loop, but I expect actual answers to questions. Obviously some people are going to troll no matter what you do, but when you cater a game to teenagers that invariably happens. I expect the CRM to actually establish ties with the community and show activity and interest in peoples questions, ideas, and views. Even if they disagree with something, the mere presence will make many people happy if they can back up their reasoning with thoughtful, honest, and non generic answers. Excuses such as working on the next campaign, etc, etc, can be milked for quite a bit, but at some point a large chunk of the community just throws in the towel because it appears that the people who they believe are supposed to do this task don't give a damn. I'm not trying to be offensive towards anyone directly here, but I'm quite frankly curious as to what is going on here. 90% of the questions I want answers to have been asked dozens of times before, and still haven't even been answered, or have been blown off. Why should I bother to write and ask when the chances of me getting a response are so slim. Why would they listen to me over anyone of the more frequent and prolific editors? I mean, hell, it took them from May until June to even respond to one of the bugs I posted on the wiki, let alone the support ticket I sent in late in January, and oddly enough the DAY after posting it on Guru figuring I don't care if anyone uses this because they don't seem to care either, it gets a response on this wiki. Possibly a coincidence, but seriously, with turnaround times like that I think its reasonable that some people are getting very frustrated. And it's small wonder that people are vowing not to play GW 2 if this is the standard. Now we can probably bet that some of those people will come back to try GW 2 and play it for at least a bit, but the question is, How many? Now, not all of this is directly tied to CRM, but Anet as a company. Anet has lost a lot of trust amongst many players because of how poorly they have handled this situation amongst some others, and it will cost them, no matter how good their propaganda is for GW 2. It may not be huge, and probably won't be as big as many are saying it will be, but it will cost them nonetheless. Kelvin Greyheart 04:35, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
We already know what aNet is doing, current CRM and the previous CRM and they will only tell us what they can no matter how brat-like we insist they listen to us and to respond on our every single whim. By now, after playing the Guild Wars for countless of hours, days, weeks, months and years, isn't it time for you and everyone else who complains alot to change their expectation of a buy-once-free-forever game as opposed to a subscription based MMOG? I'd expect this kind of incessant clamor for attention / chest-thumping and growling from a community that pays for their game on a monthly basis as they mostly have every right to do so since that company is constantly siphoning money out of their pockets. Do we expect a company to change their expectations from us (them changing the game into a subscription based model would be a good example) or as an individual, change our expectations of a company that is trying their best? Don't ever tell me that they're not doing the best, because if they did not, they would not interface with us, they would not have constant updates no matter how big or small or they won't ever listen to us. Renin 10:21, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
I won't pursue this any further past this post because we both expect different things, and we both have reasons for expecting that, but consider this. How much time would it take for someone to read through this material and write back once every day, or even a couple to several times a week? Many people who are here voluntarily manage to do so, so why is it that the people these pages are for seem unable to read them, or at least unable to respond? Its not like this can't be done from pretty much anywhere, other than the questions they don't know the answers to where they could just say they don't know and will have to check the next day at work. Now if people were getting feedback, many more people would likely be posting, but one would expect the overall quality of the content asked to improve. Most importantly, people would be happy because they would feel like they were getting listened to even if they were told that their idea is impossible to implement, or that they can't reveal some information (but that cannot be used as an easy way out excuse, because at some point that becomes overused and we are back to people complaining again). Suffice it to say that while I would agree that funds may be somewhat lacking to hire many people, I would contest that they are doing their best here. Kelvin Greyheart 15:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It's far from being that simple. I'm not sure someone here reads all the things thrown in Arena Net's direction (all comments here plus everything at the ArenaNet portal) and replies to all of them...And even if a common person managed to do all that, it would still be far simpler than having to take all this feedback, give it to the Arena Net developers, receive an answer back and then reply. Regina, Gaile or anyone else cannot respond to every single player comment - that would require far more time and effort than they have. Plus it would be a waste of time, IMO - we often have people asking the same questions over and over, regadless of how they have already been answered. You already gave some examples - people complain about Ursan to Arena Net, and we were told that they're going to change it soon. People complained that Arena Net is too slow to chage things, and we were told that's because they don't have enough resources to fix everything on GW1 and make GW2 at the same time. People complained that Arena Net should change that, and we were told that ok, they got a designer and a programmer to work exclusively on GW1 since this month. What else were you expecting? Erasculio 15:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


I do read the Ursan Blessing talk page, the forums, and people send me instant messages and discuss this with me. The designers know where to find discussion on Ursan Blessing and I'd be really surprised if they hadn't looked in on the Ursan Blessing talk page. They follow the forums and wiki as well. They gather feedback and recommendations from different sources, form the forums, from the community team, from other designers, etc. Since we now have a dedicated designer working on GW1, we now have the resources to tackle the Ursan Blessing issue. In the latest Dev Update we indicated that we're working on addressing the Ursan Blessing issue. I know everyone sees it as a problem that's festered for too long. I know you aren't satisfied with the explanation about our priorities and resources, that we're prioritizing GW2 and until recently we didn't have the resources to tackle the sticky problems in GW1. Why is this a recent thing? Why hadn't we dealt with it months ago? Again it was the prioritiztion issue. Everyone on the team is heads-down working on GW2, and after we found a replacement on the GW2 team we were able to get a designer and a programmer to work on GW1. Players don't agree with the priority, of course, because they only see the game in front of them. You play GW1 now and don't understand why we aren't spending as much resources on the game we have out rather than the game that players don't see. There is a lot of resentment about how everything seems to be moving so slowly. I've tried to explain why by telling you what's going on here. I'll continue to repeat myself, since I know not everyone checks the wiki or particular forums regularly. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:33, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

See I was afraid you'd be pissed ;] Doesn't anyone understand how much a CM can hurt inside? Anyway, as much as you need to loosen up, that was validation enough for me. I'm sure someone reads it once in a while, but there's some really good nerf ideas on the Developer Update discussion page. Well only two, but they're really even handed. I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement a reduction in damage for each person under the effects of Ursan Blessing in earshot but that seems like the way to go. Bears don't hunt or even live in groups of six afterall. Giving it a duration of 60 seconds and disabling it for 80..30 could serve as a deterant for title grinders too. I'm sure a couple of people will wanna reitterate ideas below as well so, once again, archive this before people start bickering. I'm embarrassed and sorry. Spawnlegacy 19:59, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Nah, I'm not pissed off. I know and everyone here knows that the reason there are so many strong opinions on this is that you care enough to post about it. I'll send the link over to the devs to let them know it's there, in case they haven't already seen it. Cheers. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 20:03, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Just one thought in response to one line from Kelvin : In all honesty, how can you not expect people to be fed up, and resort to name calling, and generally childish behaviors as well as painfully bad bits of sarcasm and the like. Personally, I expect people to speak like mature beings or not speak at all. Some incivility is going to happen, but giving people a bye on childishness because their toys vex them so is a bit extreme.
Also, Reginia seems to be showing a genuine intrest in the community and discussions and stuff, that aren't Ursan, all the time. And she has a cute metroid ^_^. --Star Weaver 15:54, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Just for the record, there are many players that would rather see ANet work on GW2 than fixing or adding stuff to GW1. Myself included. I'm happy with a few changes to GW1 to make the time waiting for GW2 easier, but... I'd still rather that the time waiting be reduced instead. -- Alaris_sig Alaris 16:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
^ Seconded ^ --Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 16:20, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Pfft, I'll shut-down every troller I find that moans about ursan if you guys keep working on GW2. (Terra Xin 12:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC))


Guild Wars Live Team

Can you tell us anything about this, and the number of staff involved? [drawn from information here from Linsey Murdock]. 000.00.00.00 06:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

The GW1 Live Team consists of Linsey Murdock (Designer), Joe Kimmes (Programmer), and Mike Zadorojny (QA Manager). Linsey and Joe are dedicated to GW1. The community team works with the GW1 Live Team as well. Other developers also work on GW1, too, working on for example: the special events, skill balancing, QA, testing, and general design input and discussion -- however these developers do not work exclusively on GW1. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:46, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Interesting :). Dominator Matrix 16:49, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
[clears throat, nods] Sweet! 000.00.00.00 23:49, 16 July 2008 (UTC)


Tournament house

I keep making my predictions but when i push save it takes me to a blank page and when i log back onto the tournament house my predictions haven't changed to the ones i want. --Robot 16:36, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

See Gaile's Page...she is forwarding our "troubles" with the predictions. --Silverleaf User_talk:Silverleaf 19:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
A more specific locationUser Barinthus Magical Compass.png Barinthus 19:50, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
There are some technical problems that have to do with saving predictions. They are working on a fix right now, but until then voting has been suspended. They're working on a solution as quickly as they can. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 21:48, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I hope its fixed by the time votings up. As you can't really extend it. 68.151.16.139 01:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
It's fixed! -- Salome User salome sig.png 11:43, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Confirmed :). --Silverleaf User_talk:Silverleaf 11:44, 23 July 2008 (UTC)


A happy player

Regardless of the many angry mobs running around the wiki, there are happy players too, like me. Sure, I'm not too happy with a particular elite skill which I won't name here, but overall, I just try to ignore it. And of course there are things that could do with improvement, but that's always the case. Compared to other games such as WoW, Guild Wars still rocks. I'm not going to give an endless speech, I'll just say, I'm happy with Guild Wars and ANet :)

(this will probably turn into another hate-mail topic a few replies down if anyone bothers to reply, but I don't care, I'm happy. In my humble opinion, the community has a lot more to improve on itself than ANet has) HeavenMonkey 22:50, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I once read something (which i forgot where) which I liked, it said something like this; "Happy players are off playing, rather than saying how happy they were on the wiki", so comparing the amount of players in the game with the amount that whine all the time, I'd say there are a lot, an I mean A LOT, of happy players out there. --MageUser MageMontu sig.pngMontu 22:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Its good your happy.  :) Personally, I'm happy with Nightfall, the PvE aspect, but I'm biased towards that one. Nigthfall is the product that hooked me on to the game, and its the one I return to when I find certain issues are too annoying. 000.00.00.00 23:00, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Zero, if it makes you feel any less biased, I have been playing GW since Prophecies but Nightfall is also my favourite product released by Arena Net. Erasculio 23:08, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Lol, and I find nightfall boring, until you arrive to Vabbi, from there it get's interesting. I find the first part boring, mainly because u need to lvl in your SS title to continue if u r Elonian, ah well :/ --MageUser MageMontu sig.pngMontu 23:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Woohoo!  :P 000.00.00.00 23:22, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm a happy player! AND YES that's such a true and valid point that the happy players are playing and have nothing really to say, but Regina, we the happy players want you to know you're doing great and so is ANET. You just might not hear from us since we're enjoying the game more than teh ppl complaining about it. Yes ursan, yes PVE skills, but oh well, ignore it.. its JUST a game. .I've played for 3 years now and I'm still coming back to GWs. So, just cause you hear crap from the community that is angry and is frustrated , doesn't mean there's no community that is happy and content. Thanks and lookin forward to the HoM changes soon along with GW2. Wetwillyhip 23:16, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Crap, I'm late to the party. D: But yes, I am also another happy player! I thnk GW overall is great, and I trust Anet to make it even better with GW2. And if they don't... I'll be playing and enjoying it anyway. --Mme. Donelle 23:25, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm a happy player too! and Just like zeros and MageMontu, Nightfall was the one that really got me hooked into playing GuildWars. I bought Prophecies but stopped after 3 weeks; then Factions came out, after a week I stopped. When Nightfall came out, I have never stopped playing. I blame them heroes and offensive Fire skills such has the PvP hated Searing Flames and Savannah Heat. Them heroes made the game feel more like the console RPGs I've been playin, you know the part where they're customizable to a point. Ahehehehe. Just like Mme. Donelle, I too will keep playing GW2 even if it doesn't become a shiny diamond, because we all know that they'll polish it through time! Though I have to admit, I'd want more interchangeable armors! :P Renin 03:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
It's interesting that so many of us were hooked by Nightfall. I was as well: it was the dervish profession that did it for me. Hood, corset, long skirt with weapons hanging off its oversized belt, the use of earth and wind, and scythes: the profession is damn near perfect. If a dervish-esque profession is available to Norn in GW2, I think I will die of happy. --Mme. Donelle 03:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I forgot forms! They too are awesome sauce. --Mme. Donelle 03:33, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
i think the main reason why people come plain is because they do like the game. at least thats how i feel and is why i post things.75.165.124.46 03:44, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Yeah. I hate to see a good product ruined, which is the main reason I feel the need to keep talking. They had something good going; a few months after factions, before sins became the 6 attack skill monstrosities that everyone remembers... back when "balance" wasn't a foreign concept. That was a good game. GW now is decent at best - way past its prime, struggling to stay above water, with ANet throwing things in like consumables and ursan :/ It just makes me wonder why they didn't just give people the BAMPH skill and be done with it. -Auron 05:11, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

If people are so unhappy with the game, why then keep playing the game itself when obviously they want to play a much different game than GW? Why then post and constantly rant on wiki when they could have been playing a game that makes them happy? Is it in their nature to torture themselves? Are they that sadistic and masochistic at the same time? Or are they just cheap? Renin 06:26, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Anet started out with the right idea, they even put those ideas on the box. Little grind, balanced pvp, endless skill combos. Then they messed it up during 6v6 HA and haven't fixed it since. Anet dug a very deep hole in their beautiful garden, and now they can't find their way out. ~Shard User Shard Sig Icon.png 06:29, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
There's a difference between being unhappy [referring to leave] and disappointed [referring to staying but still being critical] at something, Renin. I am happy with probably 80% of the PvE aspect of Guild Wars, as I am a PvE'er, but I am disappointed at 20% [Ursan, consumables, GWEN as a product, and the limitations of the player MM role to say but a few - I loved playing MM buy couldn't use half of the skills because selecting individual minions was a pain].
Oh, on Heroes; Heroes filled in the AI void, gave people a chance to still take AI but have them be more productive and forefull more roles than the standard AI. That, and AI never quit when things get tough, something a lot of players need to learn.
I am critical of Arenanet to a point but I always try and point out that I obviously like Guild Wars more than I criticise Guild Wars and Arenanet because I also still play it. 000.00.00.00 07:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm referring to the group of people who rants more than they play the game. The people who rather QQ than just to enjoy the game as it is, no matter how broken it is. Those people who insist for aNet to listen to them and starting flamewars left and right. We all know how borken GW is and it's not that they're completely ignoring us. It's like they don't even consider what the aNet team actually does and only thinks that what they want is deserving the most, of their attention and nothing else. Instead of letting a "happy" post as it is, they all have to rain down on those happy people's parade. Renin 08:06, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I think theres only 2 ways of solving the "broken guild wars" problem. 1. Anet writing a public apology on there website, or 2. Anet making a to-do list on what issues are currently being looked at. That way we can see that even though the staffs crunching at GW2, there just short staffed -- and not ill-minded. Back on topic, guild wars is a good game and I love it :). Proph is the best IMO do to its simplicity, care, and detail. Dominator Matrix 08:10, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Gaile has mentioned this (i think) before that they cannot post publicly their "to-do" list because people will expect that all of the things listed are being worked on when they can only work at an issue one snail pace at a time. Renin 08:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
You'll find that most of the unhappy players are old ones who've played the game way before Sorrow's Furnace was released. -- NUKLEAR User NuclearVII signature 3.jpgIIV 09:16, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
YAY!! Another happy player! Love this game. Did deviate to LOTR-Online but deinstalled after starting 2 characters because i'm so spoiled by GW and after the (promised) HoM update i aint got much left to do in GW. --Silverleaf User_talk:Silverleaf 09:35, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Late to the party as usual, but still happy. Happy people are generaly content in being happy, un happy people always seem to want to spread their missery. I got on during the beta and have been hooked since, even if I was not able to play right at launch. I step away from GW from time to time to enjoy some other games, and will for Diable 3, Star Craft 2, and Dawn of War 2, but I came back, and always will come back. Thanks for a an awsome 3 years, and 2200+ hours (and counting) of gaming fun Anet. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 14:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I started playing GW with Factions, my favorite campaign, when Nightfall came live. I then got the other two games for XMas, and GW:EN when it came out. I've very happy with the game. I'm generally a happy-type-person, but I also recognize quality games and design philosophies. If GW2 keeps the same design philosophy, it'll be great regardless of the details. -- Alaris_sig Alaris 14:49, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

[Reset Indent] I've only ever been "disgruntled" about two nerfs, and only recently in the face of so many people complaining that they wanted them, had I spoken up. I generally read the wiki for the lore and hints when I get stuck, but spend 99% of my time in the game. I realize that there are two sides to an argument and think that ArenaNet has done a great job with Guildwars. Ecto prices might fluctuate but I don't think it's up to them to solve my bad investments. I would just like to see everyone have a fair chance to play. Beyond that, I'm a very happy player or I would not have spent 2500 hours here with your creation. "Great Job!" doesn't even come close to covering it. Ghosst 16:06, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

It's hard not to get a little disgruntled with a game every once in a while. It's happened to me too. But, my generaly sunny disposition has helped keep that little bit under control and not explode in a fit of rage or something like that. The only thing that gets me is, being a software dev myself, I see both Anet's end and the player's side, and always find myself walking the fence. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 16:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
A lot of the complaints I see have very selfish sources. For example, a balanced economy is something to cherish and protect, and yet I see people complaining either that prices are too high (hence I can't afford it) or that prices are too low (hence I can't profit off of what I have / farm). A balanced economy is not achieved by pulling one way or the other, but by making sure that there are different ways to make a good living (i.e. get rewards with reasonable amount of effort). Similarly, I often see people arguing about builds, but the arguments revolve too often on how it affects the player making the complaint. For example, the reception of the recent nerf to shadow form was too often dependent on whether the person was using it for profit or not. But the point of balance is that different characters should be able to earn a living, complete tasks, and keep their individuality, and furthermore that different team builds should be viable. The effect on the community should also be considered, for example, that discussing builds plays an important part of player relations, which unfortunately is weakened by the existance of Ursan.
Back to the topic, I find that players are generally pleased with the game if they can see the big picture, because they realize what a great game it is, how well it is design, and how relatively little grind and flaws are present. Disgruntled players more often than not concentrate on single elements of the game that "breaks" it for them. -- Alaris_sig Alaris 17:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Very much agreed, there is always one thing to the game that gets people. Probably that one thing for me would have to be some landscapign flaws, things floating off hte ground, not completely on the ground ect. Balance is hard tho, I don;t think at any point the game has been 100% balanced. it's always leaning to one side or the other, but it's getting closer. As it stands now, you can make a decent amount of money with almost any profession, which is good. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 17:38, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
i would just like to say that the biggest reason why people complain is because the know this game is awsome and they just want to have this game be even more awesome.75.165.124.46 22:04, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
That's a valid reason, but there does come a point when it gets excessive. If someone comes on the wiki and says somewhere, "OH NOES! THIS SKILL IS BROKEN IM PISSED!" or somethign along those lines, it's not that big of a deal, people will tell him to calm down, but w/e. Its when all people say is complaints about the same small group of things that it gets to people. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 22:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Can be said with constant praise as well. Can be just seen as an attempt at butt kissing [nothing more], which is interesting to see being played out over the year and a bit I've been monitoring just the wiki, especially when Arenanet isn't really interested one way or anything. I don't think there are enough happy or unhappy players actively making their voices heard for Arenanet to really sit up and take interest either way. 000.00.00.00 22:17, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


Thank you. It's really nice that all of you took the time to make positive comments. I know that even happy players disagree with aspects of the game. As we say around here, people wouldn't criticize so hard unless they loved the game, but it's nice that you can also step back and appreciate what you are happy with in the game. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 19:27, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


since I am not a programmer my opinion can be discarded

One question regarding the „special Events“: there is NOT A single Event that has NOT been there already! Wintersday, Dragon Fest, Double fame, double drop, double what ever…. Do you really want to make use believe that these re-re-re-re-used Events, some which are 3 years old (Wintersday) need to be programmed every time? That those “Events” are not stored in your lets call it “Event database” and someone in essence just double clicks the “wintersday.exe”? That maybe you even have a timer installed so it automatically goes idle aka cant be used anymore, until some other dude clicks the “uninstall wintersday.exe” button? Am no programmer but I imagine that these things are all stored in a database and are easily executed and stopped! Otherwise ANet would have a lousy team that never heard of database and automatism, but since GW features the ATS… you know who to automate things. So pleas don’t tell us you need to work hard for a weekend event! Its all there already, you just need to activate and deactivate it! And giving us Wintersday in July while NPC give the X-Mass speeches/text is rather lame and not funny but only shows how much you’re done with GW1 and don’t to even TRY to change a little piece of text for an Event that usually takes place in December!! But since I am not a programmer my opinion can be discarded. Regards ~Garbaron~; 19 July 2008

I would believe that a lot of the custom NPCs (event npcs), dialogues, extra features, geometry and the likes would exist within the game all year around but in a disabled state, but we do not know the mechanics of how Guild Wars works, there may be more to it than just running a few server processes or scripts that enable everything. In a stand alone game, I mod Oblivion, I would just set a script to enable/disable scripts, quests and NPCs, but it may not be as simple as that for Guild Wars. 000.00.00.00 12:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
The events don't need to be programmed from scratch every time, but they do need to be "put up" and "taken down" each time. In the case of Wintersday in July, they had to build in functionality that would allow for having the Snow Arenas opened without having the town art and quests enabled as well. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:39, 21 July 2008 (UTC)
These things could be automated, but that would require all the code to automatize it, like scheduling, and adding / removing code / content. Sounds easier to do it by hand if its just a few well-placed "switches". -- Alaris_sig Alaris 16:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Oho… I don’t recall making this post an entire new topic! But be my guest to separate my post and stand on its own.

Back to topic: I remember an old interview where Jeff Strain points out that every NPC, every object, every blade of grass, even each piece of texture bitmap has got its own kind of serial number and that this was the basis of the live stream mechanism. That due to each GW part having its own serial number it was very easy to implement changes to individual parts without the need of gargantuan “WoW server down” style updates. That it basically goes like “ replace piece #1245 with #1245a” in a live stream and then you would have Togo instead of Mhenlo being a quest NPC (this is only an example). Very simple very effective and a trademark of the GW design architecture now carried over to GW2.

Taking the above executing event dressing for Kaineng is as easy as replacing Togo with Mhenlo…essentially you just switch the serials and once the event is over you replace the new #1245a with the old #1245! And since GW by now has accumulated about 3.5GB on my HD I suspect the changed versions are all stored on my PC and all ANet does is write some Event*.ini or Event*.exe that holds the instructions on what to replace this time around. So in essence all ANet does is, as I said before active “Wintersday.exe” with a double click. After the 3 day timer has run to zero event NPCs go idle and can’t be talked to anymore, the Event effectively ended. And later the “uninstall Wintersday.exe” is executed… this being the “put up” and “taken down” Regina talked about. A lot of work indeed! Am NOT saying ANet does not need to program little changes now and then! But the fact that some NPCs used X-Mass talk during the “Winterdays in July” Event shows how fast and cheap this event was put together since not even enough care was taken to alter the NPC speeches accordingly!

And I somehow really believe that by now all the Weekend events are automated using a “shuffle mode” that picks a “new” event, places the already written announcement in the login screen and starts a timer until the Event gets activated, which then starts another timer till deactivation. All with no hands on, on ANets part. This would also explains why we sometimes get two or three PvP/PvE events in a row… it’s a bad shuffle algorithm that does not remember what it did the last time when it comes to PvP/PvE Events! And since the weekend events are routine and repeated over and over ANet would be stupid NOT to implement any kind of automatism. Especially with their eminent and fast available and never gets old „not enough resources“ explanation when players ask for a change. What ANet eventually has to do is “replace item #4711a with item #4711b” aka giving a new Dragon festival mask, Wintersday gift, Halloween mask etc. which indeed (sometimes) have to be created. But e.g. the grasp mask was there already, they (just) had to take the grasp monsters head and replace the players Avatar head with it. I know there is more programming involved but the mask did not need to be created, because its part of an already existing piece in the GW world.

So to end this… ANet does not need to invest a lot of time in GW1 anymore since they automated what can be automated! And telling us things like “the live team has to work blah blah blah” to put up events is highly exaggerated. Besides how much work can one programmer do to a game that has some 3 - 4 Million players? It’s the proverbial water droplet on a hot stone or a tear drop in the ocean. But in doing essentially nothing ANet is loosing players! GW is utterly repetitive at this moment. There is nothing new in the game. Our Alliance of former 8 Guilds and some 200 something players disbanded recently! Am not blaming, just stating a fact. And the disbanding was because there is nothing left to do in the game. With the GW2 beta being postponed to god know when …. You know. I somehow am starting to believe the GW2 beta was never intended to be taking place in mid end 2008. ANet just promoted this to calm down players who had just been given a big shock with ANets announcement that there would be no new expansion or chapter for GW1 but that there would be a Beta to GW2 around the time the players would have expected the new campaign/expansion. And since that “silver lining” aka the GW2 beta was on the horizon players kept playing although there was nothing left for them to do. But now the GW2 beta vanished form the scrrens to some “closer to GW2 release” date, which only Anets and god knows when this will be. GW1 only offers automated events ppl have played a billion times already (exaggerating). For some that’s enough to be busy, but most long time players, the players that helped GW to rise to what it is are leaving.

ANet does KNOW that players want new content but are hesitating to take the steps to give us some because they involved themselves to deep in GW2 and are thus unable or unwilling to return to GW1 to hinder players from running away form their game by providing something new.

As I said I don’t know if the GW2 Beta release date was kind of a lie to calm us down, but I suspect so. Since shifting an already announced Beta date to the unknown future otherwise would mean that ANet heavily failed to achieve important milestones in GW2s development and is way behind its scheduled GW2 status at this time in 2008 which would cast a very dark shadow on a near future GW2 release. But like the topic title says… I’m no programmer and my opinion can be discarded, but I do have some life experience and this whole GW2 beta release debacle and inability to cater to the players in GW1 with some NEW game content and haphazard CM attempts to explain why nothing is happening starts to stink to the heavens! Regards ~Garbaron~ 22; July 2008

And what about adding event outposts and a way to automatically activate and deactivate the travel icon (like when they appear when you unlock and outpost) that way, all outposts would stay in the GW.dat, and when the event is activated, the travel icon appears. This has also the advantage of people being able to go to the normal town if they do not want to suffer the lag of the event. MithUser MithranArkanere Star.pngTalk 15:33, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Garbaron, as you said, you are not a programmer, so everything you have just written, all of your conclusions and explanations, are just speculation based upon information that you pieced together from interviews, reading the opinions of other fans (also those who don't work at ArenaNet) on the forums, and your own self-admitted unprofessional knowledge. What is your point? --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

My point is that I believe ANet is not telling the truth! Simple as that. And am sure you figured that. And if my opinion was so obsolete, I wonder why did you separate my posting in to a topic of its own? You may “archive” this topic, since that’s what is done with un easy issues. Regards ~Garbaron~ ; 22 July 2008

Garbaron, you're not a programmer. I'm no expert, but I've at least done some programming in various languages, including a couple of fairly complex projects (obviously nothing the size of GW). I've got no particular insight into the GW programming, but in software development there are a few universals and I'd be shocked if at least some of the following does not apply here. Have you ever heard of the phrase "painting yourself into a corner"? Basically it means that one becomes so focused on finishing an act and doing the best you can that you overlook a fairly fundamental detail, one that is going to bite you hard. The saying implies a certain lack of foresight, but even the best-designed programming projects run into this problem because designers and programmers are only human. You design something with hard limits here and there, because you KNOW those limits will never be exceeded. You make an interface that's awesome on paper. And then you roll it out and, a year or two later, guess what happens? Those limits need to be extended, that interface doesn't work as well as you thought, and there's no way to fix it without rewriting huge chunks of code, doing weeks of debugging, then weeks of QA testing before rollout, then weeks of dealing with the inevitable bugs that slip through. I think (pure conjecture) we've seen these sorts of limits hit before (during the Storage shortage) and clever workarounds (adding tabs rather than redesigning the whole Storage interface) have carried us around them so far. But I think all the "hacks" have been added that can be right now. All software accumulates cruft, and programmers HATE cruft. I'm sure there are changes that the designers and programmers would LOVE to make to GW, but they can't do so without ripping out and rewriting code, thus involving the time-consuming debugging/QA/rollout cycle (not to mention the actual programming time). Any programmer will tell you that sometimes all you CAN do is rewrite something from the ground up with the new requirements in mind. It doesn't mean the original product was faulty, it just means you didn't design it to meet the now-altered demands. I seriously doubt that Regina/Anet is lying about what's involved in turning events on and off. I'm sure the programmers COULD change it if they had unlimited resources and time for all the testing involved. But they don't, so the rewrite (GW2) will have to take care of it. As for your comment about what one programmer could do to change things, you've already answered that yourself; many parts of the game's "back end" are probably automated by now. That takes a big load off, and allows the lone programmer to focus on improvements and alterations rather than running around keeping the game running, regardless of the size of the player base. And finally, if you're going to call the GW2 beta push-back a "debacle", then you not only have no programming experience, but no experience with the software industry at all. Push-backs are a part of the industry. It would have been amazing if the beta had NOT been pushed back, and we'll be lucky if it only happens once. --User mrsmiles tinysmile.png MrSmiles 22:31, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Again, your belief is based upon your limited knowledge pieced together from what limited information you have access to, meaning your opinion is uninformed. I decided to address your post to point out the discrepancy of information that you have access to, compared with what we have access to. The discrepancy means that people without the same access to information, such as yourself, can come to very ill-informed conclusions. You seem to be too stubborn to admit that your speculation is ill-informed, therefore all you've been doing so far is throwing around accusations of deception -- which we can't confirm or deny because -- why should we share the minute details of our production and programming procedures with you? There are obviously business reasons which prevent us from doing so. So, absent our ability to go into detail to correct you, you will continue your accusations and wild speculation.
I separated your post into its own topic because it was randomly posted in another topic that had absolutely nothing to do with the question you asked. Organization, see? --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 22:08, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Though my programming knowledge is limited to amatuer modding and the such, I wouldn't doubt it would be possible for such things to be automated, even to degrees [so not all parts had to be put into place]. We're talking about software here, it can be what you make it. The nature of an MMO environment is as far removed from me as the internal workings of a car engine but there is something I have learnt from hanging around modders is that all these kinds of things are possible. Why the Guild Wars systems aren't automated for ease of use and ease of deployment, such as with the special events, is beyond me. You'd think the work on automating it would be worth the effort, considering such things are repeating events and hardly ever change.
Can I ask why a more automated system wasn't implimented? You'd think with limiting staffing on Guild Wars a more effective way of doing things would be desired. Yes, we are not all of the level of intelligence when it comes to the ins and outs of Guild Wars at the developers end but as a modder I've heard many developers say this can't be done, or this can't be done, and then modders turn around and do it anyway. 000.00.00.00 23:01, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I'd like to point out that just because someone isn't something (here, a coder/programmer) doesn't instantly mean they don't know what they're talking about. In that vein, just because I'm a coder doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about either. It's just the "disregard my opinion because" logic that really irks me. Of course being something (doctor, lawyer!) would always help your case, just don't be throwing people out just 'cuz they're not something.
I learned a lot just from watching SQL fly while I installed a private server instance of WoW for myself. It would appear the whole world just "stops" when a player isn't there. That's so odd to me. Ahem. Anyway. That's just what I wanted to say ok :< not that anyone is doing it. Vael Victus Pancakes. 05:47, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Ok Regina one more try: yes I base my assumptions on the information I have got. That’s all I can do. That these information’s are not the real ones, I think I pointed out already. Thus my “ANet is lying” or perhaps I should have rephrased that to “misleading us”, which nice saying and still means “lying”. That by half assed information policy ANet is letting its customers sit in the dark with regards to GWs future.

ANet said “there will be a GW2 beta around mid/end 2008”. It did not happen. You said GW2 beta will be closer to GW2 release. When is that to happen? Mid 09? End 09? Or even 2010? Why aren’t you telling us “PPL we are sorry, but GW2 is not as far was we hoped it would be, so there will be no Beta this year!”. No you say “Beta behaviour has changed and we are accounting for that and move it closer to the release!”, again when is this to happen? ANets MUST have a schedule so you can say “not before mid 09” or something.

On questions regarding GW1 title grind we get a “will be newly evaluated some day in the future” (referring to the Luxon/Kurzik title topic). When is this “future? Add same amount of time it took ANet to admit there is a problem? Some 24 month?

On “Realms for the others gods” we get “we are considering it”. Where till that response it was “there are no plans to add new realms”.

So basically ANet is behaving like a changeling: one day it will say ”no can do” and the next it is “we are considering it”.

GW for a lot of players is lacks anything to do. GW2 is far in the future and ppl don’t give a lot on ANets “it will be great!”. Meanwhile ANet though that most players would jump to maxing titles till GW2 because they thought up the HoM and said “it will give you something in GW2”. Sorry to disappoint, but first of all grind achievements is only for part of your customers. You severely neglected those who don’t want to grind (just compare time needed for new PvE content to time need to grind all titles. It’s a Hugh imbalance there). Aside of that ppl want to know what it is they are grinding for. With regards to the HoM ppl are buying a cat in a sack! Noone knows what they’ll get. In same line there are complaints about the HoM ever since it went live. All we get one year after GWEN release is a “future changes will be announced soon”. Yeah sure when is “soon”?. Same time it took ANet to realize they need to have a look at the Luxon/Kurzik issue which is being hotly discussed ever since the PvE skills where tied to that title shortly after NF release?!!

When ppl are asking about new events we get the ”a lot of work to implement events” excuse, where for month/years we get the same events over and over, so that even stupid morons will know “jep.. those are stored in a database and only need to be activated”! Everyone can see its automated by now.

And that was what I was referring to in that original topic, since you, Regina, had said GW1 programmer needed to work on the events. Where I objected and said that I believe those are automated by now.

And I don’t want to know the “minute details of ANets production and programming procedures” in fact I give a damn about your procedure.

What I expect is a little more honesty on ANets part! Since in my opinion, you are misinforming us! You are seeding little hints here and there which then lead to speculations in the fan base. Then ppl start to voice those speculations. ANet then gives haphazard responses (soon, is considered, closer too…) by this seeding more uncertainty and giving rise to even more speculation. Then CM pops in and start to accuse ppl (in this case me) on speculating on ANets half truth information’s.

To sum it up:

- GW2 beat: When? Mid / End 2009 or later? It won’t kill ANet if its customers know.

- GW1 HoM issues: 1 month? 2 Month?.

- GW1 title grind: within 1 month? 2 month?

- GW1 new god realms: when?

Don’t give a “don’t know”! Since you DO know. ANet is a company and I know for a fact, since I work at one, that companies work on a master time plan for any given project. And if dates are pushed back it usually means milestones have not been met, that’s why I said I believe there was either never intended to be a GW2 beta this year, or you are behind your plans.

Honesty is the answer here, not business talk. Oh and had you not separated my post, I would have forgotten about it. So don’t act surprised that I use this to voice my “limited knowledge“. Regards ~Garbaron~ 23 July ; 2008.

Garbaron, that's enough now.
Regina sometimes put herself in the deep end when talking with players, which I think a lot of people can take for granted. Arenanet doesn't have to be open to talking to people.
Honesty can only be taken so far when dealing with a situation like this, they are a company after all. Arenanet's current Guild Wars team will have a big list of things to do and they're only a limited number when it comes to staff. They could have 'a masterplan' for each project but with a limited number of people involved research, development, testing and implimenting can take longer than expected. New God realms, title grinds and HoM issues are far different than what you were originally bringing up, the Special Event.
Yes, a Special Event such as Wintersday and the Dragon Festival can be automated, and in my opinion, should have been automated but its not and my only question is why. Whether I get an answer on that; eh, I'm not going to be upset if I don't.
As much as, to be honest, I have bitched and moaned about stuff and probably been overly critical of Regina's performance myself, but we've got to give the situation a lot of leeway, and just as much to Regina.
Here's a thought for you to take into consideration: a new realm, even half the size of UW or FoW, would be a large undertaking, even if all the geometry was in already made just making the worldspace you've got a lot to take into consideration:
  • placing the geometry and all the environmental pieces
  • pathgrids
  • any special zones
  • the actually scripting/coding of the area
  • text and dialogue
  • what monsters
  • Which professions of enemy will be there, and their skill bars
  • Testing to see if all professions can function within the area
  • Testing and compiling all the results
  • Working over any changes
  • Retesting
  • Implimenting
  • The list goes on.
  • [remembers working on his Kvatch mod in Oblivion] Oh my god, textures... painting trails, greeny areas, working on ground pattern >.< ... can be torture.
  • And there invisible walls
  • Sounds
  • ok... I'll stop this, this would get very, very long...
Even the Hall of Monument stuff, to which I am eager to see more done, could be a struggle in itself. Title grind, that's a very complex situation that needs a lot of thought. Guild Wars 2, honestly, I don't give a hoot about it, from what we have I personally don't want to really play it, my main concern right not is Guild Wars 2.
In the end, we can ask stuff of Regina and Arenanet but the questions have to be sensible, something I really think I need to learn myself. Regina can only do and say so much, and she's taking a lot of punishment from us as a community, to which I think a lot of people are missing. Quite frankly, just reading a lot of the stuff on her page alone, as a community we are both a blessing and one giant pain in the butt. Ease up a little, give the lady some slack. 000.00.00.00 08:14, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

IP... you did not get what I was saying. ANet is constantly announcing things with “maybe”, “perhaps”, “it’s being considered” and then month upon month of silence follows and nothing ever happens. At one point ppl start to complain and ANet acts in surprise, at least to the outside and wonder why ppl are getting angry at them. And am not “far off” as you say, since the explanation why we are not getting changes is often said to be because “devs are busy with planning events, bug fixing etc and above all because of GW2”.. but Events are only recurring things.. no need to “work” on them and GW2 seems to be in a lousy shape other wise, there would be no reason to postpone the Beta ppl where looking forward to. No it more opens the question “if ANet is so busy with GW2 and cant do anything for GW1, why is GW2 in such bad shape that the Beta needs to pushed back?” Of course GW2 can be in excellent shape, upon which the question rises why not show some landscape screenshots? Why not give some NEW information and do not repeat half rotten 12 month old stuff in the recently released FaQ and label a copy of a similar old Jeff Strain interview as “new”? Why anger your players if there is no need to wiht these false informations?

I know this is just me writing and I have no problem taking the fire for what I say, but looking at this wiki, or more the archived topics, and GW message boards show me that a lot of ppl appear to be asking the very same questions (perhaps nicer formulated then may I do). Why aren’t they answered?

Regarding the realm. I know a lot of work is involved in doing so, which is exactly my problem! You see it was said many times by Gaile… there wouldn’t be any new realms. And out of the blue Regina comes and says it was considered. Huh? They don’t have time to implement the HoM changes! It takes them about 24 month to see the title grind issue needs a look at. Add to this all the other constructions yards (UB, SF, skill balancing in general etc) that still need tending, and all of a sudden we get a “maybe new god realms” statement? Adding more work although they still did not finish the old? A bit odd to say the least

You are however right, ANet does not need to be open to its players. But in the recent case of a “postponed to unknown” shift of an already announced GW2 beta at mid/end 08 and added “there will be no new GW1 content" statement which was given at the same time the beta was announced, I somehow think ANet should get more informative! And with this am ending this. Regards ~Garbaron~ ; 23 July 2008

First off, I can say I understand your point of view, I share some in some respects. Oh, and you can call me 000, its not an IP its a nickname ^_^
The explaination you're after has been clarified since Arenanet implimented the "Guild Wars Live Team", who work exclusively on Guild Wars Live issues, bugs, added content and general maintenance [or at least Linsey does], yet this staff is extremely small [some could even saying insulting small] but this is the team that is going to be getting things done in Guild Wars, old things may be reconsidered other things scraped. Yet a small staff means things are going to come slower. People need to realise that the old explaination of lack of progress because of Guild Wars 2 is now out the window, the new explaination will be something along the lines of 'the Guild Wars Live Team is very small and things will take time", which is fine as long as they're done right for Guild Wars. Arenanet's Live Team could get more productive and inform the players about what this Team is actually going to tackle each month, but the nature of things can change, yet information on current priorities would be nice. One must think of it; its a small team, it would be poor management to spend a lot of time on something and then have to scrape it. I would imagine this time to be working on very focused projects. We know from the Developers Update that they are making moves on several issues, but this team is small, we need to be patient and give them time, even if its been a long time already.
  • Also, Linsey herself says "You'll get new stuff. There is already some new stuff lined up that we have wanted/planned to do but didn't have the time for. So I'll be working on actually getting that stuff done and released. - Image:User Linsey Murdock sig.jpgLinsey talk 01:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)". Things are happening, they just take time. Its frustating I know.
As for adding more work, its not really that odd. And Gaile has been wrong from time to time, and questioned, and told off by community members for saying the wrong thing. Gaile, and now Regina, can only say what they're told to say, but obviously Arenanet has its own ideas and some may be influenced by the community too.
They're working on current issues but may have side projects to release new content thats not a tonic or something a lot of people don't find appealing to them. I mean, they finally added end-game items for Proph, that was a nice bit of new content. They are getting their act together to work through issues and get stuff out there. Might be long overdue, or long overdue to the players but would you perfer the alternative: that they do nothing?
Very few things are ever "out of the blue", there are often things started and shelved or ideas that were also shelved that may be reconsidered. These things happen a lot. Just like the Proph end-game items.
I do, however, think a more direct line to this team would be better than always going through Regina, going through one of the Live Team might be better when having questions on issues at hand. The 'Developers Diary' thats been mentioned a lot should be implimented. Short little bits of information about the Guild Wars Live Team's current focus and progress [even just general 'its going well, we are confident... would be extremely powerful bits of information], and I suppose could be done with Guild Wars 2 later, could help with keeping people informed.
As for Guild Wars 2, quite frankly that can go <insert your favourite swear word> itself. People really need to get off that subject, Guild Wars 2 is way off and its only a 'future potential' kind of thing at the moment. They're obviously not ready to release information, pressuring for information can go one of two ways; they release information or they don't. They're choosing not to, even if its annoying some people. What they did released, from what I saw, expanded a bit more on what they had already released, but a lot of the core information people want wasn't added, which is a lot of the bigger stuff that is still being processed at Arenanet's end. Its the problem with releasing information, people will never stay content. They will always want more, and more, and someone else will what more information on something else. Managing what they release is a challenge, but most must realise this. Broad comments like "we have no new information at this time" may not seem nice but at Arenanet's end, is probably the best course of action. Not at the players end however.
As for the Events, clearly work still needs to be done on them. For whatever reasons Arenanet did not automate the process. If they did there wouldn't be any issue, it would be self-managing [to an extent], but its not, we have to deal with that fact.
"Why aren’t they answered?" a broad statement, such as what they have, is an answer though. Not a very good one, but still an answer. Which has been left at "we're not sure right now" with Arenanet when it comes to stuff, they're not always shutting things down but not always saying they're going to happen either. Leaving things open gives them room to move.
I'm not even sure if that made any sense, its 12am here and I'm tired. 000.00.00.00 12:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
000… Thank you a lot for this! Really! You gave me more explanation then Regina did in her ranting about me. I’m from Germany and unless I missed it at WT (wartower.de) I had no idea the “live team” made some sort of statement. All I got through Regina’s side note was that there now indeed is a GW1 dedicated team. And this is already something I could get mad about. Why didn’t ANet make an official announcement about the live team and give a few items they are working on right now? See? And that’s exactly what I start to despise about ANet.. they do something in the shadows, Regina lets a line drop at Wiki and for them the information is out. But I don’t want to start this over again. I really appreciate your last explanation. And thanks for the link to Lindsay mach appreciated. Regards ~Garbaron~ ; 23 July 2008
Garbaron: I fail to understand why you think it's a bad thing that we are reconsidering options and player requests, based upon community input, that were once shelved. You demand answers and specific timelines on when things will get done, like HoM or Luxon/Kurzick titles or exact release dates for GW2 beta or final release. We can't provide detailed information for very good business reasons, and of course there is the issue of managing expectations. We would rather under promise and over deliver than over promise and under deliver. Your assumption that we haven't met milestones is based upon what information you do have, namely that we announced last year that we would be holding a beta this year. GW2 development is, in fact, progressing very well. Another thing you've failed to keep in mind is just how long it takes to create a MMORPG, much less an offline videogame. It doesn't take one year. It doesn't take two years. Producing a triple-A MMOG takes more time than that. And yes, the state of the industry has changed such that powers-that-be have decided to hold a beta closer to the release date. Things change. The industry changes. Videogame development can be a fluid process as you experiment with new features and also adapt to the demands of players and the industry. So if you're upset by the fluidity of the situation, by the fact that we can change our minds based upon community input and industry changes, well I'm sorry. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 16:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
All stages of developement, production and release can make years, some developers can take 3-5 years in some cases to finally release a game.
I think Garbaron can take that milestones haven't been met because the BETA was pushed back, and personally I have not read any information really as to why. The generic information we're given on the FAQ you released doesn't say anything that any other developer wouldn't say. The fact is you said it would at a point, now its not. We're not sure on the release date, we don't know how far along in production Arenanet is. We literally know nothing [well, thats not entirely true but what we do know isn't that much in the grand scheme of things], so a change to the BETA could be seen, very easily, from our point of view that there are issues, quite big ones. We're not given information, we just see results and from the result we saw, people could take many ways, and the general impression was "somethings up" in a bad way Yes, you want it to be a brilliant game, we get that, we appreciate that, every game developer wants to do that.
You could say Guild Wars 2 is in great shape as you say but for people looking in, having the BETA pushed back could mean a number of things. I would have thought, from the developers side, you would be able to see that people could, and would, come to such a conclusion. Honestly, how could you not? Arenanet said one thing, a very big thing: a community was eager and hungry for information was then told "No, not right now even though we said... we want it to blow your mind" basically.
Fluidity can only be taken so far, Regina. People also expect you guys to be profession, so changes to timeline can be quite damning, many questions can arise, we can't be given all the reasons but then again you've put yourselves in the position you're gonig to weather a lot of questions, anger and frustations. Their is structure and then there is fluidity. Yes, things change, but then that kind of statement can only be taken so far before one has to question the structure of goals and milestones.
This also illustrations a issue with communication; a lot didn't know about the Live Team, and quite frankly I didn't know until I found Linsey page, then brought a question here for you. The staffing issues ... issue [lol] went quiet but I don't think you let us now that the issue had be resolved. [must check archieves] I also can't find such information on GuildWars.Com. A lot of people don't know about the Live Team, or even the size of it or objectives. Many issues come when you look at the picture that is Guild Wars.
Here is where I find an issue with the whole "managing expectations" we're usually given with information; a lot of times we are only told definates of things are certain. We were told the BETA would be at such a time, thats a big thing. Now its gone, we're not given a real reason as to why. How well did Arenanet really manage this expectation? You guys don't give out information very often, and a BETA was a big thing that people now expected, and then its taken away: one of the main expectations, or the main highlights people were waiting for was taken away. It can be quite damning, creating a lot of anger and frustations.
I think Arenanet sometimes forgets who we actually are; we're your fans, yes, but more immediately and more immediately we are customers and consumers.
You take away the BETA, well, we can't change that, but what do the players have now ... nothing, literally nothing. From our end we lose a BETA and that void hasn't remotely be tried to be filled in. You yourself, Regina, more than anyone, would have seen and hold a lot due to this change, and now you're saying PAX will have no information... its hard to stay interested in a production you guys want to be mind blowing when we're disappointed at every turn. 000.00.00.00 19:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
I was just skimming by this section but thought I'd mention a couple things that occurred to me. One, the beta hasn't been taken away, just postponed. Which, while not comforting to know is a slight difference. Also, from my perspective (for whatever that may or may not be worth to anyone reading) Arenanet is doing more or less what I'd expect a software company to do. Working as a software engineer myself, I have some idea (probably to a lesser extent) of what happens when customer/client expectations aren't handled right and what communication usually needs to happen between the coders and clients. So from my perspective (which again, may or may not be worth anything to you gentle readers) I'm content to wait until they actually have concrete information to share with us rather than have estimations/guesses now. (which I realize is likely no comfort to the "general masses" but there it is all the same.) Lojiin 20:01, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
This is one of the main reasons they do not want to release any information, things change, you stated the BETA has changed dates and how "disappointing" that is. Therefore they dont want to release more information that could potientally "change" and therefore no one woud be "disappointed" because of it, as they wouldnt know. OblivionDanny 20:05, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'd like to add in my thoughts here, and I hope I can do it without sounding demanding or like I’m ridiculing or blaming anyone. I understand the whole Managing Expectations deal, and I see both Anet's side of the deal, but I can also see where everyone else is coming from. I'm sure the lack of GW2 info and the delay of the Beta was done with the best of intentions, but so far, they have both been very damaging. Now, I'm going to preface this example by saying it may be extreme, but it illustrates my point well enough, and note that it does not 100% apply specifically, but is meant to hit one over-arching point. Some of the most unthinkable acts have been done (in the eyes of the person doing them) with he best of intentions. We will take Hitler's attempt to eliminate the Jewish population as an example. I can confidently say that Hitler WAS NOT doing this because he felt like being evil and killing lots of people. Hitler thought he was doing the world a favor by eliminating a great evil and infestation and I'm sure he was doing it with the best of intentions. (I'm going to digress for a minute here, but stay with me) Evil is in the eyes on the beholder and history is written by the winners. We viewed Hitler as evil, and we won WWII, so he went down in the history books as evil. Had he won the war, then he would been seen as good, and his extermination of the Jewish people as a liberation of evil. (Now back to my point)


Anet may see its actions as being done with the best of intentions, but we, your customers, loyal fans and players, are only seeing damages as the result of these actions. Regina, I'm picking you out, and I know very little (if any) of this is your fault, as I'm sure you are just the messenger, and I'm sure it's not you that’s choosing to withhold this information from us. Managing expectations is not about breaking as few promises or expectations as you can, it’s about breaking the lowest percentage or promises and expectations as you can. When we are given very little with which to stake our hopes and dreams on, it hurts quite dearly when even the littlest bit takes a hit. The little bit of info we had on GW2 wasn't really much to put our hopes on, so just about everyone had their hopes staked out on two things to first GET more info on GW2, those being PAX and an early Beta. Since no info will be provided at PAX, and the Beta has been pushed to rather close to release (from what I'm gathering), people have lost just about every hope they had on more info, and are clinging on to only the little bit we now have. At this point, you may have only broken 2 expectations/promises, but they were both major and 2 of few, and counted for probably around 80% of our expectations.


Let’s work up a hypothetical situation here, but its still gunna rely on some facts. Say Blizzard had promised SC2 to go into public November of this year. But something came up and they announced it's not going to happen in Nov, and they are not sure of a new date yet. Sure people would be sad, but since blizzard has kept a very large flow of information going, and is letting out just about everything they have on the game, players would be optimistic and understanding, as they know blizzard will keep them in the loop, and let them know when things get better. The constant flow on info helps reassure players and fans that the game is progressing quite well, and when something does change, looking back on what they have already helps reassure players that all has been well in Blizz-land and will soon be again, if it ever went wrong. This all in all, is a very solid and trusting environment. Now let’s take a look at the situation with GW2, and dhow things are coming across from our point of view.


Early on, when GW2 was announced, we got quite the nice load of information and the promise of a Beta in the second half of 08. This seemed pretty ambitious for a game that was going to be re-engineered from the ground up, but we were optimistic, given your previous history with Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and the promises of EotN and how much we had on that already, and later how well information flowed on that end. Now, with GW2, nothing new came out for a while, and we were a little worried, but still rather optimistic, and then we get to a few months ago, and it's been a whole year since we got anything solid on GW2, and we began to question how well everything was going in Anet-land. Things could easily be chugging along full steam ahead and going great or better, but that's not what we see. Our view got even worse when we learned that improvements to GW1 were going to be VERY slow, as there was no-one to work on it. (This may have been solved, but it only comforts a little.) When we began it inquire about the lack of GW2 news and the possibility of something new, we were told that nothing more would be coming for a while, and that you wanted to surprise us and blow us away with how awesome GW2 is going to be, but we didn't want to be surprised. Fans don’t like to be surprised. They like to be continually reassured with visible proof that the game is progressing as planned, and makes them fell included, and not abandoned. The response we got basically meant to us that you were deliberately keeping us in the dark, and that made us very angry, but we still held on to that hope of the beta this year and quite possibly PAX, as it was getting nearer. When Anet announced that it would be at PAX, we all jumped to the conclusion that it would be showing at least something of GW2, as we all thought, "what else is there to show?” Now a few months later, we have lost both our hopes of anything GW2 related for at least this year, if not for close to 2 years strait. At this point, not only are we being deliberately kept in the dark, but I'm sure a vast majority of us feel rather betrayed and let down. Pile that on top of the fact that it seems as if GW2 is in trouble and not going to make it out for another year or two, and the small possibility that it could tank entirely. This makes for a very untrusting, bitter, suspicious, and upset fan-base. Let’s have one more illustration before I wrap this up.


Consider Anet to be an employee at some workplace or another doesn't matter which, us fans to be your boss, or supervisor and GW2 to be a big project divided into lots of tasks. Some of these tasks are tiny, some, reasonable size, and some quite large (task sizes are directly proportional to how important they are viewed by players). Now, consider the announcement of GW2 to be the announcement of this project that needs completed. Now, you tell your manager that you will help work on this project and say you will complete a set of small tasks (the few details we have on GW2 atm), this one large one (beta in 2nd half of 2008) and there is a possibility you will complete another large task (info at PAX). Now, without telling your manager, you also decide to work on a whole slew of other tasks, all of varying size. Now, time goes by and your manager comes around for a status check. You tell him you need MUCH more time for you on big project (offer no proof of progress) and for sure will not do that other big project you said you might do. When he questions you about your smaller projects, you smile and say they are well under way, but again offer no proof of progress, and you also do not reveal the other tasks with which you have also been secretly working on. Now, your manager is understandably upset, as you appear to have made no ground on your tasks, and he is left with only your word that you are making progress. Now, if you were any other employee, your manager would have fired you a couple months ago, but he likes you, and is willing to give another chance and hold-out on a judgment until the deadline (GW2 release) if nothing else bad happens, or you can produce visible results. As your manager is returning to his own line or work, you mumble something about how hard you are working and how well things are going, but he waves it off and keeps walking. You have just established a very negative image in your manager's mind. It may not be the truth, but it's still what your manager thinks of you, and that is what really counts. More empty promises and tales of how well things are going are going to make this situation any better, unless you can begin to back-up your claims. Your manager has lost trust in you, and his opinion of you is only getting worse.

While that illustration may not be 100% perfect, it's still a valid assessment of things from our end of the deal. I would love to conjure up another illustration of how things are going from your end to reassure myself and all the other players that things are actually going quite well, but unfortunately, I have nothing to back-up such a claim, as you have yet to provide anything. All wee see is a ship in trouble waters ready to sink. The ship could be doing quite well, but we are not on the ship, nor do have we been told what it's like on the ship by any of the crew, so the same vision still stands. Anyway, that’s my 3 (maybe 4 or 5) cents. Copy-paste into MS Word and spell-check there FTW! -- User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 21:10, 23 July 2008 (UTC) Good God! I just realized how much I wrote there! It's a lot, but please, read it all. -- User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 21:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah!, the Godwin's law... good times, good times. But back on topic, the problems is the assumption that the delay is a "bad thing". As you stated, we had our hopes put on gathering more info about GW2, but that is because "we" put our hopes on it. Anet fault to this point was only to give a date for the beta without being 100% sure of it, but anyone with average knowledge in how the game industry works know that "first release dates" are never met anyways (see: Duke Nukem Forever, which is taking "forever" to be done).
Up to now, i actually find that Anet giving little to no info, until they are "ready" for release, is actually a better course of action than what other games have done before, where they just release movie-like promotions, raise hype, and promise the heaven and the earth; and in the end, they only give you a stick while telling you it's a WMD, and you have to suck it because you paid for 50 months in advance.
Users have to just realize that the game will not come "soon". If they want to go and try other games, it's fine. If they want to stick with GW1 while waiting, even better. But if they keep pressing Anet to release info and speed up their release date, the ones that will be hurt more in the end will be we, the users, and not Anet.--Fighterdoken 21:25, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
Lol at Godwin's law, it was the first example that came to mind. Anyway, I have no idea what Anet should do, but they have a very shattered Image and need to do something to fix it. I guess thats my major point. Note: SOMETHING. I have no idea what that something is. I don't see delay as a bad thing, if that's what it takes to make it it's best, I'm cool with it. Once again, this mainly applies to the image they are passing on to their fans and players, and not so much what is actualy going on. I guess I'm just asking to be reassured in some way pheasable. -- User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png Wolf User Great Darkwolf UserImage.jpg 21:35, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
We're fully aware of how badly you all want GW2 information. Believe me, if I could tell you anything about GW2, I would. It's not entirely pleasant being the public focus of the entire Guild Wars community's frustrations and ire, but I know a reason you're so demanding is because you're passionate, because you're fans.
There will be no GW2 information released until we feel we are ready to release it. There will be no beta until we are confident that we can deliver a high-quality product that meets our high expectations as well as yours. The reason we don't have a public release date is precisely because we want to avoid the possibility of those "empty promises" you mentioned.
The flaw in the scenario you have illustrated, Wolf, is that the community is not privy to the internal production workings of ArenaNet, whereas a manager at a company who has employees reporting to her is privy to that sort of information. In the scenario you described, the manager has the authority to ask the employees she manages for detailed status reports and constant updates. While the players are our customers and we love and appreciate our fans' dedication and enthusiasm, we cannot share everything with the public. I have explained the MMORPG game development process as best as I can, and tried to convey that when in the early stages of development, it doesn't make sense from a developer standpoint to talk about the game in detail publicly because so much is subject to change and this is also a very competitive industry. As you are all probably aware, it takes between two and four years to create a MMORPG. There are tons of MMORPGs in development right now, games that were announced years ago and you've heard very little if anything -- World of Darkness, The Secret World, Exanimus, Star Trek, Stargate, Firefly -- just to name a few. How we are proceeding in terms of information availability of a game currently in development is nothing new in the industry. Although we are creating a sequel, it's also a brand new game in its own right. Maybe it'll help you understand if you view this situation from a wider perspective. --Regina Buenaobra User Regina Buenaobra sig.png 00:57, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I fully realize the flaws in my own example, as it is nearly impossible to make a perfect example, it was the best I could do at the moment, and works to illustrate my point, baring said flaws. Is it a bit rediculous to discard the flaws in a example? Yes. Too much too ask? I hop not. I fully understand the whole situation at hand, and I'm not asking for more GW2 information pr trying to use the situation as leverage to ink out that information. I'm goign to give this a shot at summing up my point in a less long winded way. From the perspective of the player, there are no tanglible results to show that GW2 is getting anywhere and the delay of the beta seems to be further cementing it into peoples minds that GW2 is not going to be worth the wait for or owrht buying, and they feel betrayed for some of these same reasons. I do not 100% share these views but I still do to some degree, being a play myself. To sum it up, people are starting to turn away from GW2 and might not come back. Something needs to be done in not too long of a time, or I can see things getting worse. They may not get worse, but that's a possiblility I think should be prepared for. How do you plan to win back lost players that have turned their backs on GW2 and Anet? Some food for thought. Think about these things. My previous long block was not a question to be answered, or a comment to be replied to, it was something I wanted you and Anet to take into account and think about, and the same goes for this. Think about it, chew on it, make sure you have all your ducks in a row and you are prepared for the worst case scenerio. Once again, I'm not looking for a respone of any kind, I'm looking for you to look at this situation from as many angles as you can, and to consider new angles, and to be ready for anything to happen. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png 01:16, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Fully agreed Wolf. IDK why A.Net is putting everything set in stone before then send it out. Does anet realise that of coarse you said it doesn't guarrentee it to be there? Thats whats betas for. It was there, evaluated, and changed. Plain and simple. But now because A.Net is so devoted to a game that they have there mouth shut to, people are leaving. Read the facts, its happening. A.Net has to stop thinking worst case senerio and start to be optomisitic. 68.151.16.139 01:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Wait a sec, your logic seems a little... flawed... You just agreed with a subject I asked someone to think about. A little weird. Anyway, I understand why Anet is waiting till everything is as solid as they want it before rolling it out, as it prevents events like when the beta was delayed. They want to avoid dissapointing or letting us down as much as possible. I think they are being quite optimistic, and it's good they have considered the worst case scenario on that end, but form what I'm seeing they seem to have forgotten to think about happends on the flip-side. What happens when you don't give a community anything at all, especialy one that is eager and wanting. But then again, I could be wrong, and they haven't see fit to act yet, both cases are equaly likely. The with-holding of information, I'm sure, was done with the best of intentions. But what happens when that back-fires? It's highy possible to do something wrong for qall the right reasons. That is what I'm asking them to think about. I'm aksing them to fully examine the current situation and prepare for the worste csae scenerio. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png 02:04, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
[off topic to a point] Currently my guildies and alliance share the view Guild Wars 2 will just be a WoW rip off, but with Charr, and Norn who wear armor that doesn't cover their bodies, even though they're in mountains where exposed skin would be a big problem... you ever seen a shaved bear running around in winter? Sorry, I cracked up so much the first time I heard the shaved bear comment, had to share. :P 000.00.00.00 04:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, this kind of thing concerns me: "Although we are creating a sequel, it's also a brand new game in its own right." ... developers sometimes have the tendency to release sequels that are quite far removed from the original. There are many open questions comparing Guild Wars 2 to Guild Wars that haven't been answered yet to leave the nagging thought in the back of my mind that Guild Wars 2 may be as far removed as the back of my hand is to the underside of a car. And, since information isn't being released the nagging is always there, which is a bit of a turn off when thinking about Guild Wars 2. 000.00.00.00 04:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
so lets just make sure we've got all the required elements for a pointless GW2 info rant:-
Moaning about no GW2 info - Yes
Moaning some more about no GW2 info - Yes
Regina explaing why their is no new info - Yes
Stomping feet and saying people are leaving GW1 cause of no new info - Yes
Obligatory WoW comparison - Yes
Hitler/Godwins Law comments - Yes
Yup, seems like we've got everything! YAY! Okay now you can continue on with pointless circular arguments. -- Salome User salome sig.png 05:00, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok, only answering to Regians immediate post right after my last one.
Regina. Where did I say it’s a bad idea to reconsider community feedback? I can’t remember I ever did. I was complaining about the lack of information ANet is giving us! You push back the GW2 Beat and give “Beta release behaviour has changed…” as a reason, which leaves a bad taste to it, since publication pushback usually mean there are unforeseen problems! Want to know how easy you could have avoided that bad taste? A simple statement added to that pushback reasoning in the lines of …” but don’t worry, GW2 is progressing nicely and we are within our timeline for the scheduled release date!And we’ll give you a taste on what we have at *insert Game convention name here* to proof it” Did you do that? No. Would it have avoided a lot of heat towards ANet? Very likely. Next, the late Dev update, which stated that things where moving to get a GW1 exclusive developer/programmer, but that you did not know when this would happen. Through 000 I learn that this developer is already found and in place and was starting to work on overdue issues! Why do I have to learn of this form a user? Why did ANet not make an official press release, announcing that GW1 now is under its own supervision and that the responsible Dev would be working on hot discussed issues A, B, C? That with the new Dev it was considered to add new content? Which is something ANet had previously denied rigorously and always excused it with “Devs are too busy working on GW2, there is no time for GW1”! Why does ANet hide so much behind “could be”, “maybe”, “is considered” even if things have already fallen in to place? Why not be more open and foremost more honest with your community and customers? Which is what I was asking for all along. And you know what? I just re read my posts and I believe I stated these very same arguments already over and over. And frankly, I don’t see why YOU are unable to read or understand what I was trying to say. I talk about more openness regarding information on GW1 future and why thinks are taking so long and you turn these words 180 degrees and say I was against ANet reconsidering community feedback, which I NEVER said! But perhaps my English is so bad that I fail to make my point? If so I apologize. By now I have read Linsey’s page and she seems to be a very competent person, she obviously loves to play the game and has no problems with in game visits making her a lot more open to give feedback then the official CM does right now! If you had been as open as her, I probably would have reacted differently. But you choose to hide behind business talk all the time and taking it as the ultimate excuse why you cant say a word, not even about things that are already known (GW1 dev). I do not have a grudge against you personally but I do not think you are the right person to be ANets CM! Edit: Thank you Wolf for your excellent posts! We may not be 100% heading the same way, but I believe you got what I was trying to say. Regards ~Garbaron~ ; 24 July 2008
Garbaron, hello again. I'd just like to point out that Regina is more business than say Linsey is. Linsey is a developers/game designer, she actually works on stuff in-game. Regina is a Community Manager, she works on stuff outside of the game - she's the business end, for want of a better term, so she will generally talk business. 000.00.00.00 09:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
Give her a break, her hands are tied by the powers that be, on what she can say and what she cant. Also its not really her job to find out stuff for you that you can easily find out yourself via a quick scan of the wiki. you're own ignorance is your own responsibility, not Regina's. Also wiki-drama much. Simply put it's their company, they can release info in what ever manner they wish and you have the choice to accept that or leave. Walls of moany text however dont really help anyone. -- Salome User salome sig.png 09:38, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I figure that she is. Thx anyway. But if she is so much in to business making and so overly concerned about “managing expectations”, she must by now have realized, that the previous “expectations management” was an utter failure and has created more hate then love towards how ANet handles its customers. It is said ppl learn from mistakes, ANet seems to be the proverbial expectation form that rule, since they are making the same mistakes over and over again. A change of heading on how to handle their information policy is long over due! And Wolfs explanation further up is an exact analysis on how it REALLY is atm when it comes to what ppl think about the Beta cancellation this year! Wolf did hit the nail on the head whit what he said. And Regina better has Jeff or anyone who is responsible thinking about what he said. Since in not acting, not releasing information and not being honest they are going to make things worse… a lot worse! And if I read what Regina said about gw2 still being in early development and what she says about other MMOs in development, I somehow get the feeling there will be NO GW2 in 2009 either! So GW2 is further in the future the players anticipated with the original Beta date! GW1 is becoming more and more boring due to lack of new content. Adding grind titles has lost it appeals since there are just too many and it shows lack of creativity on ANets part. Players want more and would like to know how things are handled in the near future! Yet information is not openly disclosed (GW1 Dev found etc) and on and on. This is everything but a good situation especially for a company that wants to sell a sequel and all this was created by ANets “bottled up” information policy. So like Wolfe I think it’s in ANets best interested to think about what is going on right now and DO SOMETHING against it! Regards ~Garbaron~ ; 24 July 2008

Garbaron, I can see your frustations. I see your point of view, but you're not getting anywhere with it. My advice: "Don't expect anything." then you won't be disappointed and frustrated. Yes, Arenanet said there'd be a BETA at a point, then pushed it back, without reason [as far as I can see] but that's not going to be changed, in either account. Arenanet isn't managing expections, its not catering to anyone in regards to Guild Wars 2 bar itself. We can talk about it all day and night but for what? Other than getting it off our chests.
Don't expect a BETA until the day before Arenanet actually has it ready to release. Things can change this is true, but I wouldn't expect constant changes from a professional company, otherwise I would question if they're actually 'professional'.
Guild Wars 2 is purely 'future potential' and should be treated as such; its in that state of flux. Quite frankly we know very little of Guild Wars 2 and I'm sick of it already, beyond how sick I am of the current Guild Wars issues. Its turning me off playing all together. My own initial concerns with Guild Wars 2 coupled with 'issues' with Arenanet aren't painting a pretty picture for me, as a consumer. For me, as a player, a customer of Arenanet, and a consumer [of games] Guild Wars 2 is the last thing I want to buy right now, even if it was out today.
I don't expect anything from Arenanet, for crying out loud I don't expect an answer from Regina to any of my questions. People expect a certain level of communication, we're not getting that, its time we as a community, or those who aren't seeing it, just wake up to it. Communcation is an issue that has been brought up time and time again, but I don't see it getting any better, on other side, Arenanet or the community. We have many questions, but a lot of them aren't senisible ones, and Arenanet isn't releasing what it does in a clear and concise way, making me question their abilities. We spend far too much time on things like this, and for what?
Garbaron, I sympathize, I truly do, but you're not going to find the answers you're after. 000.00.00.00 11:58, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I just LOVE how my words are being twisted by other people to fit, push and front their own personal agenda. I highly doubt I will be discussing matters such as this openly on the wiki anymore. --Wolf User Great Darkwolf User Image paw.png 14:02, 24 July 2008 (UTC)