User talk:Regina Buenaobra/Archive Community and Website/May 2008

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Official wikis in other languages

Hello, Regina.

This is an issue that has been raised even before from members of the community speaking other languages than English. Are there any plans to have Official Wikis for those communities on the ANet servers? Ideally this would be for both GW1 and GW2 wikis, but at this point in time it'd be great if at least GW2W was considered to be expanded in such a way.

There have already been attempts at unofficial GW wikis in other languages, such as http://guildwiki.fr, http://guildwiki.thelair.it and http://guildwiki.de, however they all could have benefited much from the increased activity and partecipation that come from being an Official wiki; right now too many players don't even know those wikis exist, which is disappointing considering how much effort has been spent on these projects.

I realize it may be too early to start GW2W wikis in other languages, but we are bringing this issue up now just as a friendly reminder to give you guys time to discuss it within the company. If there is a chance that something like this can happen, please look into it, and let us know if we can help in any way towards that goal. Resources like this wiki are (in my opinion, at least) too interesting and useful to not be available to such a large part of the GW player base.

Thanks, --Dirigible 22:17, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

There are no plans for official wikis in other languages, but it's something that I can discuss with the French, German, and Spanish Community Managers. There is a problem of whether we have the resources to maintain wikis in other languages and which staff would be overseeing them. Right now the French, German, and Spanish CMs all help maintain the GW websites in those languages, and having to maintain a wiki would place an added burden on them. --Regina Buenaobra 18:13, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

This is very bad, I do hope that you change your minds on this if not for GWW then for GW2W. This wiki is in english and we have many users here who do not speak (or can read) English, which poses a problem for us; because they cannot speak English they cannot understand our policies, they do not know where to find the other CM's pages for help, etc. This really needs to be considered, for GWW as well as GW2W. --Shadowphoenix 18:01, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I do think that wikis for other languages is a good idea. Actually this issue was just brought up here the other day as well, and there is support for it from others at the company. --Regina Buenaobra 01:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I wish there were a way to 'copy' and keep layouts, using the same images, templates and policies, and just replacing texts. Just as the Guild Wars client does. MithTalk 13:07, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Regina!

Thanks for sneaking that in, and hope to see you there.  :) Cheers, Araliuns sun 21:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

For those who don't know what Araliuns sun is talking about, it's this. :-) --Regina Buenaobra 22:21, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Was there, had tremendous fun :). -- Silverleaf 07:38, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

The Ascalon Royal Masquerade Ball 08

Thanks for your help Regina, its appreciated. Seeyou all there! Frozenwind 03:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The part I attended was awesoemly fun, thanks frozenwind and all that helped! Ashes Of Doom 21:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, thanks alot guys for the great party! Those anagrams were tough...or maybe I'm just bad at them xD -Warior Kronos 19:58, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

PvP / PvE infighting

As I spend more and more time on the WIKI the more I see the infighting that goes on between the PvPers and PvEers of the Guild Wars community - PvPers have the reputation of seeing themselves as the master race of Guild Wars while PvEers are seen/being portrayed as being the poor cousins of the game and playing a 'for the newbies' extention of it. What is Arenanet's view on this and is there any plans to attempt to lessen this? 203.173.242.13 23:41, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I think anet should nerf elitist attitudes. VegaObscura 23:48, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

I think ANet should nerf you and your guild because you are 'oh so leet'. 80.193.1.106 01:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

More like buff Signet of Humility, in my mind. I see both sides disliking the other really,but somehow I keep dismissing it in part because it only takes a vocal minority on a forum or here to make an issue seem bigger than it may be for the community of GW players as a whole. Yukiko 00:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

The problem stems from the fact that Guild Wars as it was originally concieved was a PvP game with a less significant PvE aspect. As it grew with F, NF, and EotN, the PvE part became what attracted people to play the game, and what made Anet the most money. PvP players began to feel somewhat left out, and PvE players couldn't understand why Anet was putting so much emphasis on PvP with all the skill balances, which in some cases disupted PvE for no discernable reason. This balancing act is what has caused the "in-fighting" you speak of. It seems that Anet might be trying to reduce this with thier new policy of not letting PvP balances affect PvE (see the Dev Update for the last skill balances). This is my take on what's happening after 20 months of GW and almost a year of wiki-ing. Ashes Of Doom 00:24, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

The PvE side doesn't exactly like the PvP side either. People on each side blame the other side for ruining the game, and they're probably both right, to a degree. -- Gordon Ecker 02:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Gah, its cause you PvPers don't let anyone into your HA groups unless they grind rank with iway/gimmick build... -_-. -Warior Kronos 03:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Warrior Kronos is 10000000% (yes) correct. That literally is the only reason I stopped majorly PvPing. It wasn't about skill, it was about copying a stupid build and getting lucky. When I GvG'd, we'd never try anything new, just stupid copy paste bullshit. And yeah, the worst part is, we'd actually win some. I'm hoping GW2 changes that but I don't blame it if it doesn't. :/ Vael Victus 08:01, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Only true balance would change that. ANet has chosen (for GW1) to have only a few usable skills per profession; everything else is subpar, and as such, there's no point running it. You could call it cookie-cutter, but there's just no reason to run stuff like Cleave over Eviscerate, no matter how you look at it. It's just a worse skill.

HA elitism is easy to explain(ify). Lower ranked players are, almost without exception, not as skilled as higher ranked players; even if you took two equally skilled players, the higher ranked player will have more knowledge of the map design, game types and commonly run builds (and how to counter them). If you're setting up a group, you don't want to fail, right? So you set the bar high. If you have no problem with groups failing, you should have an easy time finding unranked groups lf more. -Auron 11:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

The ones that started iway farming were pve'ers. Now they're high ranked, and only let other high ranked guys join their game. They have never made friends ( iway is so easy to pickup&join...nothing to setup either, nothing to discuss, "just do your role, e.g. mash buttons ), never joined a pvp guild. They think the only way a player can be good, is "must have a high rank". The real pvp'ers, on the other hand, usually form up outside of HA, ask in channels like #gwp or #gwpickup, in their friends list, pvp guild or alliance. They'll rarely want a random guy. They don't care if one of their own members is low ranked, the guy may be a gvg god, that makes him a good player in HA as well. So in short: the groups in HA that want high ranked players, are mostly ex-iway ex-pve'ers. Blame your own kind.? --Yanman.be 14:37, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

yah it's kinda copy paste some shit and press 1,2,3, everyone can do it but the old iwayers wont let anyone new in. --Cursed Angel 16:31, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

If we're going to sat bashing elitism, we mght as well throw in high end pve. Ursan group lf more r10/r8!!. Although its easier to get those titles, it still excludes a large percentage of the pve population. Ashes Of Doom 17:13, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Elitism and rank discrimination are lame, regardless of where it occurs. In my experience rank and titles say little about skill anyway. I've met people who had reached KoaBD r6 and who were somehow complete idiots at PvE (making you wonder how they got their rank in the first place), and people who were "only" rank 2 who were absolute PvE gods but had no care for most of its titles. I don't have much experience with PvP (the attitude I've gotten from the PvPers I met in-game really put me off), but I daresay it works the same way. Fame farming and HB rolling (back in the day), for instance, are (or were) ways of getting titles easily in PvP. I'm sure there are others. Anyway... the best way to judge a player's skill is never by title. It may be time consuming, but getting to know someone and simply playing with them a few times will tell you much more. Sure, r8 Hero might mean you can bunny thump really well, but does it mean you can run anything other than that? That you can adapt when your build gets nerfed? :) -- Elv 17:21, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha, yup. -Warior Kronos 17:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Interesting discussion, but it would be nice to hear from our CM. "What is Arenanet's view on this and is there any plans to attempt to lessen this if they see this as an issue?" 203.173.242.13 23:44, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

It's unfortunate that some parts of the community have fractured themselves into what they see as mutually exclusive ways to enjoy the game. The PvP community and the PvE community have built their reputations based on how they interact within their groups and with other groups that enjoy the game differently to themselves. You stated yourself that the PvPers feel one way about themselves and the PvEers feel another way about themselves. I don't see how it's possible for ArenaNet to tell people to change their opinons about how they see themselves or to tell them how they should be enjoying the game. --Regina Buenaobra 01:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Anet can't fix elitism...-Warior Kronos 21:47, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry to disagree Regina! The PvP Balance Updates are what keeps the PvP/PvE Flame war fire burning!! Every time a balance update is done its due to one reason only… one more feeble attempt to balance PvP! You won’t hear any “nerv Incoming it’s too strong” from a PvEer! Opposite, they where quite happy when Incoming had its original stats! No the nerving requests came from the PvP side of the game. I don’t know what Izzy cooked up to make his “not affect PvE at all” statement (I bet on tournament skill decks), but I hope he meant it seriously! Regards ~Garbaron~; 7th May 2008

Many PvP skill changes are not made with the intention to 'balance', something very hard with so many skills, but to keep the game moving. So people do not stick to a single build. That applies also to PvE. Why should people just pick a build in a site and use it in a Mission, instead of looking at the skills he has available and choose them based on what he thinks he is going to face? ~By changing the skills once in a while, you have to change builds too. MithTalk 11:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

You know that’s not why the skills are changed! They are changed because everyone runs around with SIN builds that weekend, and with IWAY variants the other! Those cookie cutter builds are so damn over powered that they soon rule GvGs and HA! You know it, I know, every “serious” PvPer knows it and Izzy knows it too! Regards ~Garbaron~ ; 8th May 2008

Fansite listing

Me and a friend have been trying for ages to get fansite listing for our site, GWAuctions,org, but despite numerous emails we have never recieved a reply. Not even a sorry or that we are being reviewed. Why is this? Oh, and whiel on the subject, hows about doing a little review now? Thanks! (btw, I also would liek to see GW support for the logitech G15) Soqed hozi 13:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I guess my question is what GW items are you Auctioning off and are they for real money or only In-Game gold? Selling In-Game items/gold for real money is against the EULA and would be a reason that you aren't getting any kind of response from ArenaNet. Quiet Bear 04:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

of course its in game money. Its like guru auctions, but much much better. Check it out for yourself (GWAuctions.org) Soqed hozi 06:53, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

How long have you been applying btw? They did mention that they get a lot of applications, so maybe they're just slow. -- ab.er.rant 08:01, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Months. Soqed hozi 09:55, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Uh huh, been applying for quite some time. I received an email now though, so I'm happy. Decision and feedback should come within a week. Yay for the Wiki :) HeavenMonkey 16:38, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thoughts on Player visits

Hi Regina, I thought i'd drop in and mention my thoughts on the pros and cons of visiting the player base. My first view is that 'it depends on what you see the role of the CM is'.

If you see the CM role as someone who acts as a pure and formal conduit for information both to and from the community then there is no need to visit the players in the way Gaile did. If you see your CM role as something more than a conduit, as someone who wants to have a greater and less formal interaction with players at large, then I think that 'visits' are a key and vital aspect of that.

The first option costs less of yourself, than the latter. You expose yourself to the unforgiving eye of the general community which can be very rewarding, and also very demanding. In other words, you become 'a celebrity'. People will understand if that's not the way you are, on the other side some will be disapointed. No one else should make this decision other than yourself.

I've seen this in a smaller way with running all the public events we have done. For example, in the 2008 Canthan new year I put myself and those of my alliance(DVDF) into the full face of the community for 24 hours while we helped over 15,000 people get the maximum rewards. Did we have griefers? Yes, Was it really hard work and stressful? Totally. But it was worth every second of the 24 hours I and others stayed up to serve people. For a brief moment in time, we had made thousands of people's GW experience better and that made everything we had prepared and endured in the event worth it. Now this is small in comparison to the CM role but it was a taster of what Gaile did.

Player griefing and rudeness of GM visits is alas inevitable, and yet as a player I always found these visits to be more rewarding than not, not because of the information that was given but because it was closer contact with the development team. It made you feel more involved somehow, as part of the process not a mere observer. So they are not about the amount of pure information, or people they reach but the 'feel good' factor they generate in the community at large.

As I mentioned above, there is a significant personal cost in these visits, but there is also a much larger potential for personal satisifaction. All we can do is re-afirm that it is your decision alone and that you have our support whatever you decide. Shan 9:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more with you Shan, Check here, but this made me think as well... Regular visitors of those Q&A's tend to get to know each other as well. You see familiar names of players and wiki users/fansite staff. Q&A's bring those people closer together, and that in my opinion, is an awesome contribution for an online game. -- (Tribina / talk) 08:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Well said, both of posters above. – Barinthus 19:23, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, we shall all meet in Drok's and then braid each others' hair. :) Drago 18:30, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Thinking About In-Game Chat - 09 May 2008

Hello, you had asked for a possible way to contact more game players at once but not get the spam problems that happen in Public Chat. I thought you might try to use Guild Chat or Alliance Chat. With those two types of chat you would get to more players at one time and also have less of the Spam, if any at all. I know that the Guild I am in uses the Alliance Chat and Guild chat most of the time. You could even use the Guild Halls as a meeting place. I know that this would require you to join and leave each guild or alliance that you wanted to talk to. I also know that this would cost 100g that the inviting player would have to pay. I, for one would gladly pay 100g to have the ear of an ArenaNet or Guild Wars Representative. Quiet Bear 19:47, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

I think GMs have the ability to appear in Guild Halls without being invited in the guild. --MageMontu 19:46, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

That is even better, if true. Quiet Bear 19:49, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

And just how would you decide which guilds will get to chat and which won't? <.< — Poki#3 20:16, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

There are several ways that could be done. One is if a guild invites Regina then she would schedule a time to be in that Guild Hall. Another is that an announcement is made to guild leaders only letting them know that they can request to be put on the "Meeding Schedule" and then do a first come first served schedule. Both of these methods would ensure that only guilds that actually want to have a meeting with Regina will get one. I am sure that there are other ways this could be done as well and welcome any input on other ideas. Quiet Bear 04:25, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that might cause problems. Also if she joined a guild/alliance, she would get spammed anyway. Maybe she could just invite people to her own guild. Where she could just talk to a select group of people that she wished too in a secure environment where others couldn't warp too, thus allowing for a controlled environment without allowing spam monkeys in. As the problem isn't really the amount of people one talks too, the problem is being able to trust that the people your talking too aren't going to spam you to death and the only way i can see this operating is if Regina personally chooses people she trusts to talk too and take them somewhere quiet. -- Salome 10:31, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

(reset indent) One could argue the benefit of a small "selected" reference group though. Both in the selection itself, and the value of the opinion of a handful people. I've attended one of two of Gaile's former "public chats" and the interesting questions get ignored or lost in spam anyway. It would be better to try to figure out what exactly the purpose of the public chat is, before focusing on exactly how it's to be done.

If its purpose is to allow us to ask questions or to get "the latest scoop", then is this best done in-game? Perhaps it would be much easier and more fair to conduct these things here on the wiki-pages. Obvious pro's and con's about doing it here in the wiki would be that;

pro) Questions cannot theoretically be lost in spam and Regina can in an orderly fashion go through the questions we have, then post a response. People wouldn't have to hunt Regina down and miss half the discussion doing so, nor would they miss out on it (as they could just go read it here) if they weren't around. While an off-site, un-official log of the discussion usually pop up eventually, it's just that, un-official. There's also the added benefit of potentially being able to answer more people this way, being able to give better, thought-through responses and what not.

con) Social interaction is somewhat lost, with the removal of the "physical" meeting in districts. Also it forces people to go to this wiki for this information.

Kherec 13:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

One of the points Regina made about in-game visits is accidentally ignoring people. If she only talks to certain guilds, what’s the difference? This would shut out many people who may have great ideas, or very valid points. The pros and cons Kherec lists are also my exact feelings. It would be nice to release the information in-game so players are notified instead of wiki users, but it’s really not practical for conversing with Regina. The first time I saw Gaile in-game was not a great time. Just her being in the district basically shut it down. I couldn’t even read what I wrote myself, let alone her. It was crazy. Meeting Regina in-game may be fun, but it’s not really practical. Even before I signed up to start posting on the wiki, I would come to check the latest news. Getting it in-game was basically impossible. The real problem is learning how to use the wiki. I’m just now learning how to use it, and it is a bit complicated. Probably something more traditional, like a forum, would be better. I don’t know about Regina, but answering the same question over and over again is a huge pet peeve of mine. If everyone had to use a more static form of getting information, it should reduce this. Dunyas 23:09, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I do understand all of the concerns that you have presented. But, as I had mentioned in my last post if the invitation goes out to all of the Guild Leaders or something like that then ALL of the guilds that want to respond can respond, this would eliminate the "accidentally ignoring people" that was mentioned. Also, as far as spamming if the discussions are held in the corresponding Guild Halls the only players that would be there would be people from that guild. Random people can't just go to any Guild Hall they feel like going to, they either have to be in an Alliance Guild or be invited. However, all this is Moot if Regina doesn't want to do any type of In-Game interaction with the players. I do also like the idea of inviting people to post here on the Wiki, thereby creating an archive and anyone that is interested can take a look and post thier own comments. I, myself just happened to stumble on this the other day. I had no clue that it was a way to talk to someone from ArenaNet. I will be telling all of the people in my Alliance that this is available to them, I know that they use the Wiki on occasion so they may like the chance to have the ear of ArenaNet, so to speak. Quiet Bear 04:43, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

There are a lot of good points raised here, as well as on the GWO forums. I'm going to continue to read your thoughts on this. I'm not ruling out in-game visits, since they seem to have a lot of social value to a large number of players. Part of me wonders whether this expectation is because that's what Gaile did and they expect the same of me. I think by now most of the people on the wiki know that she and I have different interaction styles. I'd like to note that the other CMs do not have the sort of large scale in-game meet and greets on the same level as Gaile had, which were subsequently reported upon and posted all over the fan forums. As a pure information source, the in-game chats are unwieldy. For the social aspect, they're fantastic and can be a lot of fun. --Regina Buenaobra 22:39, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Not utterly and completely ignored

Surprise! Surprise! Even though the skills that were affected were few, I am quite happy with the development. It means that we're not utterly and completely ignored, it just goes to show that we are still heard. No matter how late, as the saying goes: "Better late than never!" So I say thank you aNet, as proves to those flamers out there - especially those anons that have no cojones to register (you know who you are, bitter bitter anon) - that aNet still listens. Again, I await for further skill updates with much gusto and fanfare! Renin 02:36, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I am glad they are doing something... finally, may have taken them YEARS!!!! to do it but... at the moment it however doesn't effect me, I hardly use any of the skills effected. And still no naffing Ursan change >.< Gees... pants on head much, Anet? 118.92.215.143 03:50, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Meh. It's pretty annoying now, and Shadow Form is back to being invincible in PVE. This only makes me want it more for my necromancer, however. Vael Victus 13:57, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

How do I contact you and other player relations ingame?

Sorry, im a bit new.. But how do I contact you, Regina, and all the other player relations ingame? I've seen others do it, but I don't know how..

Her in-game character name is "Regina Buenaobra". She's on this character rarely though, and when she does log in, she probably doesn't have time to respond to PMs. If you want to contact her, do it by posting your issue on this talk page, or clicking "E-mail this user" on the left nav-bar of this site. — Poki#3 23:11, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Could it be possible to have at least one alliance battle without any leaver ?

Each time the fontier shift from one side to another we experience at least one leaver per battle. Also, when we are playing into enemy territory, and after some allied players did leave the battle field before the end, we dont have exactly have the time to report leechers ( try to /report and cap when surounded and fighting 9vs12 ). The problem is not that it happen regularly. The problem is that we begin to find this situation to be normal. Yseron - 90.48.0.84 01:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

RAWR Disappeared (Account Hack)

It appears the guild Rebel Rising[rawr] is no longer on the guild ladder, which means that they lost over 700 rating in 1 day to drop off the guild ladder or they have disbanded. This is surprising since they just won their 5th monthly this weekend and the rumor mill was saying they were going to have a special cape for them made by ANET. Regardless of how this disbanded either from an account hack of their Guild Leader or choosing to disband they should not be given any special treatment. While they are great PvP players by giving them special treatment, when people are hacked and guilds disband on a daily basis, would be very unfair to the rest of the GW players. Regardless of what has happened to them, if they do start a new guild, that is just what it is a new guild and should not be given trims rewards ect. They should get their reward points from the monthly based on who participated, but other than that Rebel Rising as it once was should be gone forever.--67.241.10.75 23:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Various sources are reporting this as an account hack. Offsite link. --WarBlade 01:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Regardless of what it is, they should not be shown special treatment in any way. Like giving them back their trim on anything. It may seem harsh, but so many people are being hacked and nothing is being done to aid them to show special treatment to one guild could possibly bring into question ANET's impartiality. Rebel Rising is a great guild and they have great people, but they should be treated like everyone else by ANET. I can't see any way ANET could justify giving special treatment to just 1 guild, about 10 people, when their are millions of other players.--67.241.10.75 02:48, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Eye for an eye and everyone goes blind. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 06:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you are that hacker if someone says dont do it just dont dont why worry so much about it:/.

The guy is however right in one point, they are setting a precedent if some people are "more equal" than others. The issue at hand is more if someone figured out account security holes of GW or if it was all Awowa's (RAWR leader) fault. There were always hacks reported on Guru, but for quite some time by now the number has risen dramatically. But who knows, we do not hear if there is a problem or not, so we can all wait in fear for our accounts being hacked. I personally see no issue with giving RAWR back the cape - I doubt they can restore Awowa's chars and storage at all, due to the way GW stores data. At least I remember people saying that it is just not possible to restore some kind of backup of your char at all (?). --132.180.239.31 14:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Account Hack would be a serious point of interest & disappointment. Since there is no restore possibility (not possible on an individual level) it would mean RAWR (alliance) lost all. And that would be a sad thing. Till we get more information about the who?, what? or why? from reliable sources we can allso assume this is an "glitch" in the guild ladder.

Special treatment is not really an issue or debatable since Anet is very strict, cautious and honorable in it's reward system.

-- Silverleaf 14:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

The guild was disbanded, so it disappearing from the ladder wasn't a "glitch." They've reformed and have a gold trim back (on a new cape), but I'm not sure about their rating (not that grinding back to champ range would be particularly hard for those players, it's just boring). -Auron 14:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Why were they given their cape back. I mean so many people have been hacked to give them back the cape seems to set a precedent here, if a guild is disbanded from an account hack they will keep their trim/accomplishments. So if I am ever hacked why dosn't ANET do that for me or the hundreds of people that are hacked if they do it for Rebel Rising. It seems like ANET is taking the stance that this PvP guild is better than all the other people out there that experince the same problems on a daily basis. Showing that kind of special treatment is very disheartening in how ANET runs Guild Wars and would bring into question their impartiality in the tournaments and in game regarding Rebel Rising.--67.241.10.75 19:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Because a cape is something completely different then items? Because it is very easy to show that rawr won a tournament, but not showing which items you had and where they went to? Or simply because comparing a guild situation to a single person is pointless?Dutchsmurf 19:57, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... I'm kind of split down the middle here. While I do understand that cape trim is something different than items or gold, others that have (apparently) been hacked and had things stolen/deleted received nothing other than an email from NCSoft support saying "Sorry 'bout that." It doesn't bother me too much (although admittedly, I've never had anything like that done to me), but it kind of does set a precedent and could put ArenaNet on a slippery slope in the eyes of many players. Kokuou 20:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Gaile said it's technologically impossible to restore lost items/characters. However, ArenaNet gives/removes cape trims every month, so of course they can do it here. Awowa has not been given his character back. ANet didn't restore any items he lost. They simply re-trimmed the guild's cape (and tbh, they deserve it, they just won their fifth tournament) - no favors have been given to them simply because they're famous. And, TBH, even if favors had been given, who cares? They're famous and have directly improved the game. They host and organize PvP tournaments, which ANet gladly sponsors (or at least publicizes), and they're active in helping ANet figure out GvG problems and get them fixed. If you put that much work into improving Guild Wars, you get things done for you (even if it's just an NPC named after you). Life isn't fair, I'm not exactly sure why people expect this situation to be fair either. -Auron 20:09, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) If Anet treats Rebel Rising differently then it is clearly inappropriate for them to participate in tournaments. I am not deneying they are a great guild and have done a lot, but they should still be treated under the same policies as the rest of the players. Also the newly formed guild with the Old Rebel Rising players in it, never won the tournament. The gulid that was deleted won the tournament. Seems kind of odd to give a guild gold trim that has never won the tournament regardless who is in it. Rebel Rising definitly should be praised and lauded as one of the greatest guilds in Guild Wars ever, but to treat them differntly sets a bad precedent. If this situation isn't treated fairly by ANET it is sending a singal for all future events that Rebel Rising will always be given special treatment by ANET and that ANET is not impartial anymore. I am not an expert in legalesse but to do something like this may open them to potential law suits in regards to the tournaments Rebel Rising won cash prizes in. Regardless if anything was done wrong or not, the implication that ANET is treating one group better becuase they are good at gvg seems to be a bad idea.--67.241.10.75 20:31, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Or, y'know, you could just be a Nice Person(tm) and worry less about something Nice being done for someone else. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:42, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

It would only be a very very small comfort to me if the cape trim was returned but all else was lost to me. -- Silverleaf 21:14, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure that next time when a guild which happens to have a gold cape gets deleted thanks to a hacker, Anet will give them their cape back too. Now why would you threat guilds with a gold cape different then others? Very simple, gold capes are different then other rewards. Unlike silver, they are forever and as far as I know, unremovable. There are no other things like that in the game.

So to the person(s) too scared to sign their comments, stop trying to create drama about nothing. Trying to compare the situation of a single person to a whole guild is just stupid. You would only have a case if Awowa's account got restored, which didn't happen. All that happens is that a guild got a well deserved cape. There is no issue, just people trying to make one. Give me one reason how Anet is setting a precedent for anything here and we can talk again. Dutchsmurf 21:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Dutchsmurf, please note that signing as an IP address does not equate to "being too scared to sign their comments" and is completely acceptible on this wiki. Kokuou 22:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

I think Dutch was talking about those that do not sign comments, Kokuou. Keep in mind, Dutch, that sometimes people forget to sign their comments. I know I've done that a few times lately. - Raknor - Talk 23:08, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Other than one short comment at the beginning of this section, which Dutchsmurf was not commenting on, eveyrone here has signed their comments. Kokuou 00:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) I thought this was an open forum to express my views, maybe I was wrong. I know people will have differnt opinions and I respect those and welcome a civilized debate on all topics relevent to to the converstation. On to the actual issue. The fact is that the guild that won all those tournaments is gone forever. Lets say that someone from the old guild War Machine one of the first guilds to win a tournament in Guild Wars makes a guild called War Machine. Now would that guild be eligable to get thier gold trim back? What happens if all the people from the old War Machine are in this new guild, would they get thier gold trim back? Most likely not, the reason is that the guild disbanded just as Rebel Rising did. Weather it be for 2 years or 2 minutes, once a guild is gone it is gone. Also who is to say Rebel Rising has contributed more to the GW community than a PvE guild, or another PvP guild. Or even a single person who got all their friends interested in GW? To say one group is more important is very wrong. Some groups are more visable than others and everyone working togeather makes up the GW community. In a community there are normally rules/laws that everyone is expected to obey and consequences that result for not following the rules. As I understand ANET's EULA and Player Rules, it is pretty clear they are not responsible for account hacks. Now for ANET to step up and to give a gold trim cape to a completely new guild that has never entered a tournament and is not even a week old is very disturbing. All the players could be the same but it is a new guild, in the apparent fact that Rebel Rising is no longer on the ladder and they cannot tourny for 14 days. It may be the worst thing to have their guild destroyed by an account hack, but ANET should either step up security or make a new policy in regards to account hacks. To grant these players special privilages is very disturbing. Even to give them gold trim for the last tournament is wrong, becuase there is no them anymore. It is an entirely new guild with players who have played with each other for a long time.--67.241.10.75 23:02, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Your logic is terrible. You ignore all of the points raised (basically "use common sense," among other things), and re-state your opinion in other words. That's not how to debate. That's how to have everyone ignore you because you don't know how to debate.

News flash; the world doesn't only exist in black and white. There are shades of gray. This case is definitely in that gray. War Machine being remade 2 years after the fact probably wouldn't have their cape re-trimmed (although I'm pretty sure the original war machine still has their gold trim...), but rawr, having only disbanded recently and due to an account hack, can easily be re-trimmed. One of the key factors that you're ignoring is... they didn't disband because they felt like it. If they had just said "hey what the hell, I want to see some real drama, let's disband the guild and see if we can get a gold trim on our remake," I would be displeased to see them re-trimmed. However, that was not the case. Their guild was disbanded because of the account hack; no fault of their own (although that's arguable, as Awowa's account details were obtained somehow, it still wasn't a willing disband).

"Weather it be for 2 years or 2 minutes, once a guild is gone it is gone." Sure, if you like to be so narrowminded it misses the actual point. It's theoretically true that once a guild is disbanded it's gone, but like I said before, because of the unfortunate circumstances that brought about the disband, people are willing to accommodate. Some people call that being nice, as Aiiane mentioned earlier. I guess you think being nice is a bad precedent.

"Also who is to say Rebel Rising has contributed more to the GW community than a PvE guild, or another PvP guild." Um, ArenaNet, actually. Who's giving them their cape trims back? Oh, damn. ArenaNet again. Funny how that works, ain't it?

"To say one group is more important is very wrong." It would be, except nobody's said that.

"Now for ANET to step up and to give a gold trim cape to a completely new guild that has never entered a tournament and is not even a week old is very disturbing." Disturbing why? Because you're jealous of how easily the new trim was obtained? There's no sane reason to dislike ANet re-trimming these guys. I'm not one to feel sorry for people, but a gold trim is an assload of work. They're the only people in the entire game that have won five gold trims. That means they're the best players in the game at the moment. What's so "very disturbing" about giving the best players in the game a gold trim after their old guild got disbanded via account hack?

"It may be the worst thing to have their guild destroyed by an account hack, but ANET should either step up security or make a new policy in regards to account hacks." Yes. Sadly, that's a red herring; completely unrelated to the point of cape trims.

"To grant these players special privilages is very disturbing. Even to give them gold trim for the last tournament is wrong, becuase there is no them anymore." Zzz, answered this already. ArenaNet is being nice to one of the most influential guilds in the game, who promote Guild Wars PvP for free. Again, if being nice is so very disturbing to you, I don't really see any common ground we could even start to debate on.

Your argument is flawed in just one way; it lacks realism. If everything always happened exactly how we had planned them to happen, then yes, your argument would be airtight. ANet would always do things exactly the same way. All five-time gold cape winners would be shafted out of a trim, because some people bitch at ANet every time they try to be nice. However, in that perfect world, rawr would also not have been disbanded, so that point of view is null and void. -Auron 23:29, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Please be polite and don't attack people personally as mentioned above. Discussions are much more pleasant if everyone is civil to each other. When you want to repost your commments in such a way I would be delighted to respond to you and anyone else who dicides to post in a civil manner, no personal attacks.--67.241.10.75 00:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

HAHA OH WOW. Oh that's rich! He completely destroys your argument, so in a pathetic attempt to reclaim your glory, you hide in the conceit of "WAAH, DON'T ATTACK ME :(". Welcome to the Internet, buddy. If you cared enough, you could look past the "insults" and actually defend your point. Now you just look like a totally conceited jackass. Oh and don't bother responding to me, I'm sure I'm much too childish for you to waste your precious conceited time on. <3 Vael Victus 02:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Scratch this, decent explanation has been given, someone's good at doing their job. Owut 01:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I also lol'd at teamquitter forums. Hard. They are all so fucking right and we know it. Owut 01:02, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Over the weekend the leader of Rebel Rising [rawr] was the target of a malicious incident. It is unknown exactly how it was done, but someone gained control of his account and deleted all of his characters.

There is no technology currently in place to restore deleted accounts, characters, levels, XP, items, or gold if someone has taken control of a player's account information and deleted these items. They are lost to the player forever, and they have not been restored to the player in this case either.

An existing Rebel Rising member discovered that the guild had been deleted and after some communication amongst RAWR members about the malicious incident, quickly reclaimed the Rebel Rising [rawr] guild name and re-invited all of existing members.

Cape trims are tied to the guild name, regardless of who owns the guild or whether the guild has been deleted and subsequently remade. The guild's name is unique and the guild owns the cape trim. After this incident, Rebel Rising's [rawr] gold cape trim was restored. The other guilds that placed in the May tournament were awarded their cape trims as well.

Rebel Rising’s ranking in the ladder has not been restored. Currently, there are no automated provisions for restoring guild ladder ranking in incidents like this. There are currently no plans to restore Rebel Rising's ranking in the guild ladder.

Tied to this issue is the perception that "hacking" incidents have increased in recent months and that the hacking is a result of security compromises on our part. The Guild Wars game servers themselves have not been subject to security compromises in any of the reported hacking incidents. These incidents have been the result of security compromises on the player side, not on the ArenaNet server side.

There are many ways in which a malicious person could gain control of someone’s account: sharing access to your account, key logging programs, RMT activity, fake websites that ask you to enter your account information (social engineering/phishing), etc. If you suspect that your account security may have been compromised, please contact support here. --Regina Buenaobra 01:11, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

So hang on, if it's tied to the guild name, if a gold trim guild gets deleted somehow, and I found out, I could just remake the guild and steal the cape. Doesn't sound right tbh. Owut 01:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Also, another point on this, what was all this that people were saying about serverside security issues? Complete lies, or is something being covered up here? Owut 01:22, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Why do people never believe a company when it says "our servers have not been hacked"? See that list in the bottom of her note? Those are by far the most common reasons for account hacks in any game. Most likely choices: account sharing, gold buying ("RMT"), and (given that people are claiming this is widespread) keylogger in popular third-party add-on. Besides, if the reason the guild was deleted was that someone had hacked them and cracked a p/w list, they would not have been the only top-rank guild deleted. A cracker with that intent would've killed the whole top 10, or every guild starting with the letter B, or something else equally widespread.

On the topic of people who are whining "but it's not the same guild, it's not fair they got their trim back": Bull hockeys. It's the precise same people who earned the trim, like, um, 3 days ago? Get over it.

That having been said, it's a little dismaying that ANet doesn't seem to know what a backup is or have some method in place to handle this sort of loss. Even if hacks are the result of players being dumb, it's good customer service (and good community goodwill) to try to have a restoration plan in place. So, ANet? Seriously. Rethink this and implement a better system. --Xylia 02:45, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Final thing to be said here, since hackings are on the rise, isn't it about time new policies were implemented and new account recovery technology? However, I'm assuming that we'll immediately get a response of 'Too time consuming, too difficult, takes up too much space to keep logs for each account'. Owut 01:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Excusing myself for off-topic'ing this discussion, but this has been bugging me since i started reading this (and i quote): ":There is no technology currently in place to restore deleted accounts...". Is Anet aware of the term "backup";?. I am sure that, even if an account could not be fully restored (as to avoid such function being abused by users to dupe items, between other things), you guys could, if willing to, restore an "empty" character using backup data (as in, restoring the data, then cleaning the character from anything that may have been compromised). If such thing is not available because of the way the character database is encoded, let's just pray then for a better account data management on GW2 (i mean, "other" games are able to restore a single-character data if required, i don't understand how GW can fail at that).--Fighterdoken 01:32, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Could just have character and account logs update each time something changes, so if a character/account is deleted it can be restored to its previous state just before deletion. As for restoring lost items etc., that would be much more difficult to do without being open to abuse. Owut 01:44, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Wait so if I remake a guild that has won a monthly tourny with the exact name and tag I would get gold trim on the cape? That seems pretty weak explanation on ANET's part for restoring their trim. Just say favoritisim and be done with it. Saying things like guild trims are attached to the name is pointless when you have to RESTORE the trim to the guild's cape. The newly made guild is NOT the Rebel Rising to win the tournament, they can't even enter a tournament based on join dates. So it seems like ANET is free to hand out trims not based on a guild's accomplishments, but who they favor. Also I just heard they are sitll getting their platinum trim. Can we say not the same guild people, gold trim maybe for the last monthly but to count the MAT wins of a guild that no longer exists to give advantages to a newly formed guild seems very biased.--67.241.10.75 02:14, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

The players that won 5 times in a row have an Empty Guild Hall, a guild leader in ruins and a lot of frustration to deal with. But they are a guild! They still are together in Guild Wars and earned that Gold Cape Trim. NO Favouritism, NO regaining of their position on the Guild ladder, NO restore for the hard worked Characters, Items, gold for this individual player.

It would be a comfort if only his Characters were restored. His HoM would be intact and regained for GW2. His efforts restored without personal gain like all the other stuff that was lost.

When leaving further comment here remember what you would "demand" from Anet if this happened to you? I, personally would want to be able to have the character restored and be able to access my HoM with all i once had and dedicated there. All else (gold, weapons, items, armors) can be regained.

I agree with rewarding Rawr the earned cape trim And i agree with Character restore. Often requested and sadly never answered beyond "not in place". -- Silverleaf 06:57, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I do not understand people getting upset because RAWR got the gold cape back. This is nothing. A small quantum of solace for someone who lost all chars and items/progress made with them. I see no special and unfair treatment in favor of RAWR there. Regina mentioned two very important things: 1. The recent surge of account hacks does not seem to be due to security flaws of the GW Servers or ANet/NCSoft, but due to the well known ways how users can compromise their own account. 2. They do not have a way to restore character information and items in any way. I.e. once gone, it's gone. This makes everyone that got hacked treated equally by default. The BAD thing is the total lack of even a limited character restoration data (size, hair, char looks & name, progress in HoM, XP, titles...). Maybe they should think about something like that for GW2. The loss of all items is already hard enough for a well equipped char, but losing the char itself hurts, even more so if you fell in love with your virtual pixel char. I am really fond of my necro girl, e.g. :( --Longasc 07:19, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Note: "people" aren't, person is. (getting upset) Vael Victus 02:00, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

The anon isn't the only person who is angry. Life exists outside the wiki, y'know. -Auron 02:05, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Aye! Then let's march 'em on in. Vael Victus 03:51, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

As to restoring accounts, this is not anets responsibility. Yes, I know it may be hard for players to accept, and I would be very upset if it happened to me, but anet should not be held to blame. If you really think that more effort should be put into keeping your account safe, then come up with some random password of numbers. But please, stop whining about anet not doing enough to protect your computer.

I think you want to change that last word to "account", no one is claiming that their computer isn't protected enough by Anet. -- Broodling 00:16, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd say definetly put them back on top, Hacked accounts are tragedy-ridden, and this is something Anet probably COULD restore, it'd be such a shame if they had to work their way up again after all the hard work they did... and as known as it was =]