Feedback talk:Regina Buenaobra/Journal

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Contents 1 Aion Wings Emote section 2 Newest Journal Entry 3 Were all of the winning skill bars unique? 4 Phishing 5 Fake GW2 Beta 6 Thanks 7 The XTH 8 Thank you for the expansion 9 "New HoH map" 10 My problem with henchmen (yeah i know it's getting old) 11 Henchman Contest Winners 12 Team Arena/Hero Battles Closure 13 PAX East, March 2010 14 Good job reverting the AT to let rawr play 15 At this time, there is no other way to obtain it. 16 Heroes in Guild Halls 17 PvP Henchmen and Heroes in Guild Halls - 30 October 2009 18 Steward's Away 19 The Waiting game 20 Shadow form 21 About those "changes to other prominent farming skills"

[edit] Aion Wings Emote section

The last sentence in the Aion Wings Emote section of your latest journal entry seems to be incomplete: "Please note that this cross promotion is being driven by Aion, and I will let you know any new info as soon as they tell me and I'm" ... --Silver Edge 03:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Assassinated mid-sentence, perhaps a clue to her assailant... only Poirot can solve the riddle... dun dun duuuun... --Alex Eternal 12:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Whooooops. :S

It looks like the Aion community team hasn't provided any public messaging regarding a blanket solution for all, but I would like to suggest that Aion digital customers contact customer service to see whether they're able to accommodate people on an individual basis. --Regina Buenaobra 16:57, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Hi Regina. I propably might help to shed some light onto this . . .

I already contacted NC Soft in this issue and got an answer on tuesday from one of the GMs [Incident: 090828-001175]

Not certain if I'am allowed to copy the text completely in here, but you can remove it when you don't find it adequate:

"Hello there David,

Apologies for the confusion. NCsoft will send out digital codes to anyone and everyone that will have purchased digitally up until October 22, 2009.

All of these codes will be sent out on October 23 and will be automatically inserted into your NCsoft Master Account as an unused serial code.

Hope this helps!

Kind regards,

GM Ricardo

NCsoft Customer Support

http://eu.ncsoft.com"

Hope I could help with this information even when I think that October 22, 2009 is a typo.

Cheers, David aka Marek Olivar

There still is confusion about "what to do when someone contacts support for the AION Wing emote". My friends got codes delivered. I am redirected by a GM to the "Billing Team"?? Never heard from them again???

[Reference #090916-002302]. --Silverleaf Don't assume, Ask! 01:20, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Got mine :). --Silverleaf Don't assume, Ask! 06:43, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Newest Journal Entry

No offense, Regina, but by your post on your talk page the other day I had assumed you would actually be telling us something new. From what I just read it sounds like all your saying is "Nothing's happened, we're playing Aion and EVE, leave us alone". If that's being more open...then that's just sad. No news on the XTH? Seriously? It's been months. Nothing new about halloween or the "pvp love" update? Come on guys. You can't say you're going to be more open and tell us absolutely nothing. --Karate Jesus 15:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

But, what they can't tell us is exciting! Aren't you excited? -- FreedomBound 15:43, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

What i want you to say is an date for the Sealed deck Mod and the herobattles-Close, the new sealed deck arena and the delete of heros. You sayed after the herobattle finals in september and this would be tonight?

It looks like you're busy on the other side of the big pond! And it seems I've to take some time off from Aion when Halloween comes along :D (I know what you mean by taking your time, leveling several characters, that's my prefered playing style as well). --Lady Rhonwyn 20:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Hey Regina. I would like to be one of the fans to thank you for keeping to the ArenaNets deal about being open with their fanbase. People might get up in arms because they don't have exact dates when things will come, but don't worry about that because I think you've done an excellent job in just posting to the community and letting us know what's up. We can definitely tell that you all are extremely busy and pumping out lots of work just to keep us happy, thanks! I'm liking the openness of the staff right now, keep it up! =) --220.235.128.153 15:23, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I totally agree! It's about time us perfectly content players of GW spoke up over this horrid (like seriously, guys. horrid.) whining. I appreciate all your work.207.216.104.5 05:15, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Were all of the winning skill bars unique?

Since the most winner-bars include a rez-signet, we are talking about a seven-skill-combination: Having only 18 different skills, one could create 31824 different bars. But GuildWars offers hundrets of skills. Those statistics are misleading and do not decrease any criticism. The community complained about the fact that most of the bars are copies from popular sources like PvX-Wiki, especially because those bars were made for players, not for henchmen. Consequently, those bars may be popular, but they are rubbish for henchmen which have no idea of tactics and do not communicate with the rest of the party.--aRTy 15:50, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Most of the builds there are Gimmick builds. - Reanimated X 16:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

General Conditions Originality: Entries must be the submission of the contestant and cannot be taken from any other source.

GvG winners
I Will Win Ff	7/7 equal, 8th stated at optional.
Leet T H E O R Y	7/7 equal, 8th stated at optional.
This Is Trigger	8/8 equal.
Etron In Vitro	6/7 equal, this one is a little personal.
Lulu Xan	6/7 equal, Pin Down & Debilitating Shot are stated at optional.
Tannaros Tower Rush	6/7 equal, Signet of Humility stated at optional, changed the e-management skill.
Il Juliya Il	6/7 equal, changed Veil to Remove Hex.
Bellicus Magnus	6/6 equal, both added skills are suggested at optional.
Luzy Of Fire	7/7 equal, Distortion at optional.
Mala Aurora	6/8 equal, added the popular resto aura and popular hard-rez.
Saint Reapers Sin	6/6 equal, dash at optional, added rez.
Pseudo Antipathy	6/6 equal, added some popular skills.
Zen Si Ert	6/6 equal, both added skills are suggested at optional.
Aria Of Nerf	8/8 equal.
Aurora Alessandra	5/6 equal, one skill suggested at optional. A little more personal one again.

HA winners
Tiny Tina	8/8 equal.
Iarwain De Llanowar	6/8 equal, Savage Slash at "variants".
Adepte De La Guerre	7/7 equal, added skill is personal.
Haldibarn Earendul	6/7 equal, added skill at optional, one personal alteration.
Unfaithful Servant	7/7 equal, 8th skill at optional
Syn Spellstrike	only 4/8 equal, but picked different interrupt and changed rez-signet for hard-rez.
Leet Noobified	7/7 equal, 8th skill personal optional
The Necromaxime	8/8 equal.
Eric The Devistator	8/8 equal.
Our Guild Is Leet	6/6 equal, 7th skill suggested at optional, picked rez-signet instead of suggested hard-rez.
Bacchikoi Bacchikoi	7/8 equal, altered snare-skill.
Der Held	7/7 equal, added popular skill for optional slot.
Pnoy Pride	6/8 equal, altered speed-buff suggested at "variants".
Hi Captain Obvious	7/7 equal, 8th at optional.
Khai Kemnebi	6/6 equal, personal ideas for optional slots.
Noodle Legs	5/6 equal, changed skill suggested at variants, one suggested skill for optional slot.

Sorry for the long post and the fact that I needed some time to create it. But there you've got your Gimmick builds.--aRTy 19:27, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd be inclined to disagree with the idea that they're "gimmick builds." In fact, these builds have been such strong staples in the meta over time that calling them "gimmicks" seems almost offensive. 173.19.206.223 19:50, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

If you did the research before you posted, you wouldn't have to deal with the shame afterwards. —Jette 19:52, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Either you didn't notice the irony or I got something really wrong. But whatever...--aRTy 19:57, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

My best guess would be that Jette is referring to Mr 173. C4K3 Talk 20:10, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm Khai Kemnebi; I've said it before, 5/8ths of that bar is on just about every working PvP paragon bar in existence. This leaves room for choice of elite, and two optionals (though one of them should probably be an attack). Aevar talk contribs 02:53, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry man, but there are good working original GvG paragon bars not using your 5/8 skill stuff. You know, they can quite good gank by using an entirely different set up. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 02:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll prove it to ya. There are only 6 (single, not team builds) paragon bars on PvX that are vetted, all with a ranking of Good.

• Crippling Paragon uses 6/8 of the skills I used, 8/8 if you count the variants.
• Cruel Spear Paragon uses 6/8.
• Conditional Paragon uses 5/8.
• Incoming AB uses 4/8 but lacks a res due to it being AB. So you can pretty much count that as 5/8.
• Toolbox Paragon uses 5/8.
• TPIY Paragon uses only 3/8.

Again, I submit to you that those skills are needed for most PvP paragon bars in order to be competitive. After I chose my elite, there was not much wiggle room for making a decent paragon build for HA. Moreover, when I made the build, I tried to keep it so that it wasn't imbalanced, I tried to be mindful of AI, and I wanted a bar that did not play better than a human; a human running this bar will spike support and pressure targets far better than an AI or better yet, run something else on that human. Aevar talk contribs 03:20, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

That shows how Guild Wars has a large range of great skill to pick from that will all give a different advantage in different situations! But seriosly, ofcourse Paragon bars are similiar, so are Warrior and Ranger bars, it still doesn't take away the point that all nearly all the build posted were not designed to work with AI, but to work for good players. Frosty 03:59, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Stop defending this abominable move on ANet's part. You're full of shit because you are either defending them purely so you can keep your billion platinum mini or because you have no idea of what you are talking about. You just admitted to using 8/8 of the skills on PvX, a (very bad) website specifically geared towards catering to shitters and heroes, yet -- despite ANet quite clearly stating that meta builds would not be chosen -- your meta build was chosen. Or to be more accurate, your name was drawn out of a hat of 300 other people who submitted the exact same build copypasting off of that crappy fansite. The only redeeming quality this situation has is that your build isn't insanely overpowered on heroes, in stark contrast to the other shitter builds the heroes got, including but not limited to the N/E, Me/Rt and other builds that will cause the situation to be exactly the same as it is now.

ATTN ANET: WE DIDN'T CARE THAT THE HEROES WERE STUPID AND UGLY, THE PROBLEM WAS THEIR GAY, BADLY DESIGNED AI AND SHITTY GIMMICK BUILDS. Congratulations on wasting months of "work" to accomplish ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when a significant percentage of the people who post here would be able to do a better job with 5 minutes worth of access to the skill files in notepad. Enjoy watching what few good players you have still playing your game leave it. If you have any common sense left (which would surprise me at this point), you'll pull the extra heroes "henchmen" you shoved in and let PLAYERS fight PLAYERS in, you know, PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER mode. If you still want to give a few random shitters their pets and tonics, fine, go ahead; I don't think anyone would give a rat's ass at this point. —Jette 04:07, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not defending Anet, I'm defending myself and my choices. I am saying I did not go to PvX and copy a build and paste it into my submission. I didn't admit to anything, if you read what I was saying and paid attention, you'd see that. I'm also likely to be disqualified and banned for being honest about my account here. Aevar talk contribs 05:19, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Except the problem is, most of the "winners" of this disaster will say the exact same thing. The excuse that they didn't go to PvX is complete bullshit when you take a look at how similar they are. And Anet's trying to cover their ass by having winners sign a document stating that they did come up with the winning bars themselves even though clearly they didn't. This is just beyond pathetic. And the worst part is, Anet will feign ignorance once again and won't admit that they made yet another mistake (as they are already doing right now). So if they won't admit that they were wrong, how are they ever going to learn? 209.89.252.164 18:06, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

PvX is a huge database influencing the judge more than the contributor. The highly rated builds represent what the judges are most likely to rate as good as well. In that regard PvX is the #1 source for "accepted wisdom". Considering that nobody can browse through 30k entries in that short time, we have to assume the judges already had a rough idea of what they were looking for in each build. People coming close to the "accepted wisdom" of the PvX had a huge advantage with arbitrary deviations taking the cake. That is not to say, there was any foul play involved. Judges, contributors, result analysts, they all have their ideas on what a worthy winner build is. With PvX being some sort of on-going build contest, it comes as no surprise that judge and PvX arrive at similar conclusions. If the builds were 100% different from anything seen on PvX, then either the judges or PvX would be doing something seriously wrong. That would then provoke the wrath of people saying the winning builds were not good enough.--4thvariety 20:31, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

It's cool, I'm totally learning how to program. I'll create an army of the undead and DDoS GW2 from the first day it comes out until GW1 is actually fixed. This assuming I don't have to fight a cleric. —Jette 19:09, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

The most annoying thing was that I was actually trying to create a balanced original build. While I don't actually use the builds I created I thought they wouldn't overpower a hero while being fair to use (oh how wrong I was), while all these 'winners' went and copied off pvx. [begin sarcasm] Thanks a lot guys! [end sarcasm]--202.182.65.195 01:37, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I warned you Regina not to remove Heroes from HA and GVG [1]. It's just a step backwards like when PVP players were restricted to premade builds. And everyone knows those winning builds are not original at all. If you actually followed your own rules, you should be awarding prizes to players that submitted truly original builds. This contest is a joke and is more along the lines of a sweepstakes for the players that ripped builds off of pvxwiki. Loves to Sync 06:20, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Who cares what Shard's sock "knows"? Backsword 06:47, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

"I'm not defending Anet, I'm defending myself and my choices. I am saying I did not go to PvX and copy a build and paste it into my submission." Why should you care? In case you didn't notice, noone here gives an atom's ass about who posted the builds and under what circumstances; we give particle accelerators about what A.net did to fuck up PvP system-OWAIT they didn't change a thing! Funny.

"Judges, contributors, result analysts, they all have their ideas on what a worthy winner build is. With PvX being some sort of on-going build contest, it comes as no surprise that judge and PvX arrive at similar conclusions. If the builds were 100% different from anything seen on PvX, then either the judges or PvX would be doing something seriously wrong. That would then provoke the wrath of people saying the winning builds were not good enough." You know what? I wouldn't care if they ripped off builds from PvX to get their shiny miniature or whatever-the-hell-it-was. I wouldn't care if it was just for show, for big flashy display in System Message every 5 fucking seconds.

I do care if it's implanted.

If it gets implanted, it's a whole different story.

You see, I ran many Ranger bars over the past year. I started off with the Original, which is basically a combination of unheard-of skills stuck in a mish-mash. Then I moved on to the PvX, where me and my friends made copy pasta with noobsauce. After a while, I thought "Hey! Instead of X and Y, I can put α and β!", and so I did. Now, tell me this: I ran some builds 2/8, sometimes 1/8, 6/8 and etc. Does it matter? There are a few prime skills that can be found everywhere, and have become staple, sometimes fortunately and sometimes unfortunately. Now tell me this Chapter II: After the PvX stage I ran srs bsns builds, and whadya know? It was a success. Of course, it wasn't like the PvX builds, in which I made whipped noob; it wasn't like the Original in which I made myself a whipped noob. Yet, it was efficient. Hell, it even worked with the AI after some tests and tweaks!

How many of those builds have entered the contest? I can bet a 5 year paycheck that lots. Yet, for some reason, that didn't come into consideration, even though it would be better, balance-wise, if they implanted the srs bsns instead of the PvX.

"Who cares what Shard's sock "knows"?" troll somewhere else please. :) Titani Ertan 21:05, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Phishing

Too late, i already gave my e-mail and password: Jason@DisneyLand.us - godzillaversusmickeymouse. Oh, i did it again... Yseron - 90.9.120.70 22:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I've got about 4000 emails in my inbox, most from Second Life, so even if I was getting emails from bad people I'm sure I'd probably miss them ^^ I win!!!! ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Fake GW2 Beta

I have sent a email off to dot.tk to remove there use of the free url shorting. It will be closed by Wednesday. --Dominator Matrix 23:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Easy solution. Release GW2 beta. --220.235.128.153 13:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Easier then it looks. They create A+ games so it takes time. Patience is a virtue. Anyways the url is blocked by firefox/google. The url has been disabled by dot.tk this morning, and its been transferred into a park domain. --Dominator Matrix 04:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Patience. It takes time to delicately weave what they have successfully done in Guild Wars, combine it with another Korean Grindfest needle, and then add some WoW brand silk. Give them time to destroy what good they have done in Guild Wars! Titani Ertan 08:53, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

It was a joke. Making jokes on-line is really way too hard. --220.235.128.153 10:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

That's like making sarcastic jokes of terrorists the day after 9/11, we've had so much QQ about GW2 it makes no sense. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 10:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

It's exactly like that. We're planning a carpet bombing of the offending joker, Chaos. Mr J 11:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

ffffffffffuuuuuu, don't! It's not worth flying all over to Finland! ---Chaos- (talk) -- 12:26, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

It costs more for a B-2 to take off than it does for it to fly around the world. —Jette 17:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

For the somewhat informative journal update. People can QQ below this if they feel a need to complain about everything. You can feel free to ignore them and just read this post if you like. Misery 16:36, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Misery, you need a carebear name.--Underwood 16:37, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Cool story bro. Misery 16:39, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I want to complain about the lack of terrible new jokes. The terrible jokes are great. But terrible. You see my quandary. -- FreedomBound 16:41, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

<<....nail down (appropriate, in-character) names for the Henchmen.>>

Drat, I was hoping for a henchie named Rolol Lololol Koda Kumi talk 17:29, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd also like to think you, Regina. I really appreciate the information; even if everything's not finished yet, it's nice to know where you stand, and, consequently, what to expect.

Now, regarding some of the content of the entry itself:

• "Linsey and Robert are working with me to get in touch with all the winners, nail down (appropriate, in-character) names for the Henchmen."

Does this mean that there won't be a Noodle Legs or Rolol Lololol?

• "Syncing Random Arena"

It's still relatively easy. I'm not sure if you were aware of that or not; I just thought it should be brought to your attention.

• "GvG Tiebreaker"

I strongly, strongly recommend reimplementation of something similar to the original VoD. VoD wasn't a problem because of aggressive, overpowered splitting; aggressive, overpowered splitting were problems in and of themselves. Assassins that did huge, fast damage and couldn't be touched due to shadow stepping aren't really very functionally different from elementalists that do huge, fast damage and can't be touched due to Featherfoot Grace. I may be wrong, but it feels to me that the removal of VoD was done in lieu of balancing the game, or those elements of the game which related to splitting in GvG. Unfortunately, as long as those balance issues remain, they will continue to manifest in GvG unless there are major changes to the format itself (unless splitting becomes pointless, basically).

Those are my thoughts, in a nutshell.

Once again, thank you for the update. is for Raine, etc. 17:34, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Well...it's nice to hear that you guys are doing something.....but, um, I would have assumed that a lot of that has been worked on since April (unless you guys took the summer off), so why is so much of it delayed? Karate Jesus 20:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The XTH

Any news on it, yet? It just seems to be a pretty large "hole" in your list of things that Linsey addressed. Karate Jesus 20:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

XTH can stay dead imho. 1:1 ectos/zkeys ftw. is for Raine, etc. 20:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

When they do have news on it, don't you think they'd be pretty eager to make it known? I.e. you'll know about it when they have something to tell about it? I can't be the only one getting bored of the "are we there yet" comments every ten minutes. -- pling 20:57, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

No, I don't think they want to have it known....or they would have said something. I also don't care about "in-game economy" bullshit (I always used my keys anyway :/). I'd like a reason to care about the mATs again. Oh, and I figure after...what? 8 months (or something) of time they've dedicated to "fixing" the XTH, I'd like to see something for all that "work". Unless, for once, the conspiracy theorists were right and they just took it down so we'd forget about it. Karate Jesus 20:58, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Last news we heard was that any real work couldn't be done until the XTH NPC was removed from the game. Since that was only done last month, then they've only had one month to work out the database issues, also squeezing in everything else they've been working on. I wouldn't expect it any time before New Years.--Pyron Sy 21:25, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Pyron, just to point out live servers aren't the same as test servers. Anet could (and probably have) removed that npc from the test servers ages and ago and proceeded with work from there. I think last I heard they were stress testing the new system to see if it holds up. -- Salome 22:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I may be mistaken, but I believe it was said that as long as people were interacting with the NPC it would still make calls to the database. Since those interacts would disrupt the work that needed to be done, they couldn't work on the database until the NPC was removed. If the work could be done simply on the test servers, there would have been no need to remove him from live in the first place.--Pyron Sy 23:12, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

From what I understand the reason they removed him, was so that they could commence stress testing, but i could be mistaken. -- Salome 23:16, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Can I be wrong here too? :)

I thougt they said that they needed to remove the NPC in order to safely distribute the points ... I didn't read that as further testing was needed, but that they just had to take it down to distribute the points, then simply put it back once they were done. And that would be it.

At this point, I just want to know if they are actually working on fixing it at all, or if it's gone, forever.

- Kherec 13:34, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for the expansion

But that doesn't actually explain why some terrible bars were chosen. There are bars that were chosen that the AI cannot and will never be able to run properly. I've already reported the issues I found within my first couple of hours of testing. This has already been commented on several times and I have posted the bugs, so I will not expand further at this time. Misery 22:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] "New HoH map"

Is there any info on this we can get? As I don't PvP often, I'm more interested in any lore value it has, but what would be more interesting for me would be: Are these HoH maps for HA or Tombs? (This is the most important question) There are "two" HoH now... And by lore value, I mean, will it continue the idea of a path heading to the HoH (which the first two and a few other maps of HA seem to show), or will it just be "another map" with no intention of lore value behind it? -- Konig/talk 01:15, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] My problem with henchmen (yeah i know it's getting old)

My favorite part of all this was the quote: "great, competitive, henchman skill bars". Arenanet doesn't seem to get the idea that henchmen are not supposed to be competitive!!! Isn't that the very essence of Player vs Player or have we forgotten that? Even if you were to bring a shitty zaishen henchmen, (which i also think shouldn't be allowed), that henchman is supposed to fill a party slot and make 8/8 so you can enter; it is not supposed to fill party role. Replacing heroes with hench does disallow you from locking onto targets and macro'ing stuff, but this is typical anet failure in not looking at the BIG PICTURE. The problem isn't the control over the AI. It's the AI in general!

AI has the capability to maintain enchantments perfectly, interrupt 1/2 second casts on purpose, maintain hexes with full uptime on enemies, and detect when a party member they do not have targeted casts an enchantment so it can remove it. they don't lag out, they dont have ping, they're not players.

I'm very disappointed in how this went through. An idea could have been that perhaps the community shouldnt have been allowed to make the bars. But Martin clearly stated that they were not looking for meta or abusable builds. They were supposed to be original. Highlighting a different part of the rule doesnt change the line, "Cannot be taken from any other source."

Removing henchmen/heroes from pvp is not as devastating as killing shadow form or 600 smite. The PvP community is completely different from the pve community. The cries for change are different, and require different types of solutions. This solution, in my opinion, was a complete failure. --adrin 03:12, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

In PvE henchmen can fill the spot of bad meatshields and encourage bringing good players, but it doesn't work in PvP, and now getting a hench over a dropped out party member isn't a similar death sentence. When everyone drops hench will hold halls! ---Chaos- (talk) -- 11:02, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd rather ANet just replace ghostlies and GLs with base defenders and get it over with. Brb, pirating starcraft 2. —Jette 11:48, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

You need to change your siggy-pic to one with a hat and eye-patch. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 11:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

A hat requires more artistic talent than a circle does.  :< —Jette 11:53, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

"You can doo it!" ~~000.00.00.00~~ 12:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

So strong comment, I lol'ddddddddddd ---Chaos- (talk) -- 12:52, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

It would also make me scale the thing down even further, meaning most people wouldn't be able to tell what it was without clicking on it (they may not be able to as it is). I might make one for special occasions or something, but not for ordinary use. You should probably continue this on my talk page if you want to, Regina's space is clogged enough as it is. —Jette 13:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Technically the alot of the "winning" henchmen skillbars aren't actually competitive at all. Both Anet & the winners didn't take into account flaws of the AI. There's winners with Hammer Bash & Magehunters Smash/Devestating Hammer, henchmen will use Hammer Bash ASAP thus cancels out the elite skill. One of the warriors have shock which= 0 energy on a henchman, Warrior henchmen have Frenzy & Rush which mean 40 armour warriors, as the AI can't cancel stances effectively. Some Warrior henchmen have flail & charging strike which means 66% speed warriors. In short except for a few exceptions ALL of the melee "winning" bars are useless for the AI. The original pvp warrior henchmen were probably better because they didn't slow themselves down to a crawl, lose half their armour or spam shock(0 energy indefinitely).(marsc 23:04, 9 October 2009 (UTC))

Yes, but every single one of the ultra-gay hero bars is now a henchman bar. In other words, the update accomplished absolutely nothing. –Jette

23:37, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Also another problem is Regina in the journal entry claimed they'll tweek the AI if it is needed(and it is). This could be avoided if they chose builds that the AI was competent enough to use. Tweeking the AI would make the contest pointless as the current "winners" couldn't possibly have submitted the best builds if you need to modify the AI just to make them work.(marsc 16:01, 10 October 2009 (UTC))

your argument makes no sense as nobody runs frontline AI. they all run midline hexes and interrupts cuz the AI response time is broken. That's my whole point. You're finding the useless ones and trying to justify the project as a whole. --adrin 18:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Henchman Contest Winners

I was excited about the new henchman skill bars even though I accidentally missed my opportunity to submit my own. That was until I just now looked at the winners (HA here & GvG here). It looks like a copy paste of the HA/GvG/RA meta builds straight off of PvX Wiki. Each format has a Shock Axe winner, with skills in common even in the same positions on the bars. The winning Ranger builds are a Magebane Ranger, a Cripshot Ranger, a BA Ranger, and a Thumper. Not a single ranger build that wasn't taken straight from PvX wiki was chosen. Oh yes, the almost identical Mirror Eles are among the winners of each format too. What happened to the very first condition of the contest, originality?\

There is also obvious class discrimination. 3 Warriors, 4 Elementalists, but only 1 Ritualist, 1 Dervish, and 1 Assassin per format; sure, pass them off as non-core classes but then please explain to me why Paragons along with the other 4 core classes all get 2 per format. Having 3 Warriors allows for representation of each weapon, so having 4 Elementalists should allow for representation of each element right? Well yes, except that neither format has winners of each element (there's no Earth among the GvG winners and no Air among the HA winners). All 4 Paragon builds have Aggressive Refrain, what if we want a Paragon henchman that isn't suicidal?

-- Kirbman 03:53, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

/sigh...can you not read previous posts before you make a new section?-- File:User Shewmake 1.jpghew 03:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you should try reading my post before saying that it should be under one of the previous posts. I'm assuming you're thinking that it should be under the "Were all of the winning skill bars unique?" section but if you read it you'll realize that that topic is only part of my post. -- Kirbman 20:14, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you should try to trim down your posts without repeating what's already been said then? As far as class discrimination, it's kind of a mirror of how many builds got submitted probably... — Poki#3 (talk) 20:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Team Arena/Hero Battles Closure

Can you tell us whether or not SD will be added to the game when HB/TA are removed? It would be nice to know. Karate Jesus 20:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

And will there be an in-game announcement concerning this? I think it would be appropriate considering how many players aren't aware. Karate Jesus 20:54, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

just Login announcement ? M3G 13:50, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Hopefully they remember to remove the TA and HB Zaishen quests from the Zaishen Combat cycle when TA and HB is removed. --Silver Edge 20:49, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks like they're not announcing it..... Karate Jesus 20:50, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

I think they should... there are alot of lovers of TA and hardcore fans of HB, many people don't actually check/post on wiki either. Nikdanbro 20:28, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] PAX East, March 2010

I think you should start planning now. :) This might not be a part of your convention rounds come spring, but I think it is important to get out to the East coast USA. I know quite a few people on the east coast would be able to make it to Boston for this, it is a little bit closer than Washington state. I figure if we can drum up support now you can make plans if you haven't already! PAX East Registration Page - - Obie Quiet 19:42, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Good job reverting the AT to let rawr play

If you procrastinate and don't have things go your way... Don't you usually get punished for that? Or is rawr still above the rules? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.186.64.24 (talk) at 21:28, 24 October 2009 (UTC).

Agreed. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.233.200.222 (talk) at 12:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC).

OR maybe the AT actually IS screwed up? ---Chaos- (talk) -- 17:07, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

If you had a project due... let's say in 4 weeks... But you chose to do it the 2 days before... You are required to use the library and cite several sources. You must go to this specific library. The last two days you decide to do your project... The library is closed for maintenence. How would your unfinished project be treated?

You fail because you are retarded for leaving it to the last minute. King Neoterikos 10:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I would assume a lack of response is an acknowledgement that the leniency by anet was wrong.

ATs are a joke.--Underwood 08:10, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] At this time, there is no other way to obtain it.

I really hope every part of that is true, in which case, yay! XD Rose Of Kali 11:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

"At this time" means just that. If everyone gets one on Halloween, or if everyone gets one a a reward at the end of the last halloween quest (whenever it goes live), the statement only available via contest "at this time" would still be true.

That's my point. It implies that the contest reward very well may not be the only way to get this, eventually. Yay! Rose Of Kali 22:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Heroes in Guild Halls

it would be cool if heroes can be taken into scrimmage matches aswell, since they are fun to do InfestedHydralisk 17:34, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

somehow i dont see that ever happening. -- Salome 18:03, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

If it doesn't, we have lost an amazing testing utility. Misery 18:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for being dense but with the removal or Heroes from all forms of pvp now,I'm kinda curious what would be left to test with heroes in a pvp setting? -- Salome 18:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not specific hero testing, it is skill testing in a controlled environment. Rather than needing multiple real people you can test anything that requires multiple people with just two, such as the functionality of "target other ally" skills. It also allows you to nail down specific AI bugs by forcing actions to create situations, Mr. J and I used forced actions to confirm a few things when testing the new henchman bars, such as enabling GoLE to confirm that the BSurge henchman casts no skills while it is active. Misery 18:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Aren't you in QA? >_> Misery 18:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I am in QA, I should have elabortaed a bit more in my previous question. With the isle of the nameless being present and the removal of heroes from general PvP, what is the need for heroes to be in scrim matches? However upon further inspection, it seems that the new henchies have not been added en'masse to the GtoB outpost, which does seem a bit of an oversight. -- Salome 18:23, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

It's a lot harder to test the functionality of, for example, "Brace Yourself!" when you are relying on the Master of Hammers to knock you down instead of having a friend do it on demand. There are about a million and one examples where two people with heroes could test something that one person in the Isle of Nameless with heroes or two people without heroes could not test. Misery 18:27, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. It provides a place to test the AI in a controlled environment. There is absolutely no reason why heroes should be excluded from the party in a guild hall or from scrimmage matches. I believe the aim of this update was to remove hero usage in rated matches, but the solution for GvG had a negative impact on good features. To be fair, it probably was just an oversight. Mr J 18:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with Misery, it was a valuable testing tool, especially when you needed a better environment than the Isle. I know I've been itching for a PvE scrimmage match capability, it would help test PvE changes, ideas and the likes more effectively than running into an explorable. Alas, missed opportunities number 2476. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 18:48, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Hasn't Regina already said Joe is working on this? I'm sure that even if he figures out a way to do this, we still wont be able to scrimmage. I'm pretty sure he'd have to make it so that you can't enter a PvP match with heroes, which would include scrimmages. Karate Jesus 18:51, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers guys, as I said at the start I was genuinely interested in the utility of it. I'm quite fortunate in that I rarely need heroes to help me test things as I have an active friends list, but I know that's not the case for everyone, thus why I was curious. Hopefully anet will rectify this then and as Mr J said, hopefully this is just an oversight. -- Salome 18:55, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Still can't test how the AI applies Balthazar's Pendulum with an active friendslist. And while you could find a spot in PvE to recreate every possible situation you want to test, a lot easier to get a friend and heroes (or a few friends) to bring bars full of knockdowns and do them one by one to see how it works. Before you ask what we could possibly be testing, when is anti-KD applied? Do they cast it during timed KD spells like Lightning Surge? Do they use it whenever a hammer starts wailing away on someone? Do they attempt to use it at all versus ranged KDs such as Gale and Signet of Judgment? What about Scorpion Wire? While everything I just mentioned can be tested elsewhere, it would be very, very messy to test that "live" in PvE. Hope you can see where I am coming from. Misery 19:02, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I honestly was curious. With the seperation of many skills into PvE and PvP counterparts and the removal of heroes from pvp, I was curious as to its general utility in a pvp only testing environment. When checking PvP AI, I was also curious as to its utility in PvP due to me not knowing if the general AI of heroes is coded in the same manner as the more static bars of henchies and if both would behave in the same manner if given identical bars? I can see now that it would have utility in certain PvE related instances and I do see the value of it. Thanks for clarifying it for me, it is much appreciated. :) -- Salome 19:20, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

The AI is the same for heroes, henchmen and hard mode monsters. Misery 19:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Gosh, I was saddened by this, too. Not only does it severely limit controlled testing, as Misery has well pointed out, it removes an aspect of the game that my small guild enjoyed. We often would fight 8 vs 8 scrimmages with unique builds or combinations of builds comprized of 2 or 3 people to a team and heroes filling out the other slots, coming up with ideas for full human teams. As it now stands, unless I want the cookie-cutter henchmen builds (and only one of any one type at that) in my team, I'm out of luck. Now I know that someone will likely read my reply and, stating the obvious, tell me that gimmicks were a main reason that heroes were done away with in PvP in the first place. It doesn't change the fact that you do run into such things played by full human teams (good to be prepared by having tested possible counters, right?), that scrimmages are meant for testing in a PvP setting, and that it was just darn fun! Oh well. 4.88.50.197 19:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree that we need to be able to bring heroes into the guild hall even thought they won't be allowed to fight there. That is where most PvE players prefer to set up their heroes' gear, and it will get very annoying very fast to have to add them back in after every time we stop by our halls. -- Kirbman 21:31, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] PvP Henchmen and Heroes in Guild Halls - 30 October 2009

Thanks for the quick response to player concerns on this issue.

It is especially helpful to see information like this when ANet doesn't yet know how or whether the relevant issues will be addressed. I prefer to see shorter and more frequent bursts of info rather than fewer, more thorough posts.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 21:47, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Steward's Away

Ok, interesting. Question, are the Skeletons in UW a permanent feature now, Regina? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 02:01, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

And why the Steward still comes back? I thought the event was over.... - J.P.Talk 02:05, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

And who said the Steward is returning as part of the event and not some new feature to the Underworld or something else? Maybe we'll see Thorn's little cottage with a bunch of candy men. -- Konig/talk 05:23, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Because they just didn't finish it on time for Halloween. Their initial notes were talking about a series of a new quests for Halloween, no hints about anything that extends past it. But I guess the deadline has been extended a little bit now... Rose Of Kali 14:08, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

On a minor note: there are plenty of people standing around the Voice of Grenth waiting for the quest to update. People aren't aware it's going to be days, not hours, before it's ready. You might want to get someone to look into a way of informing people... ~~000.00.00.00~~ 00:44, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] The Waiting game

Hi Regina, any known day about when Dhuum is finally going to wake up? or in other words when will the waiting game quest continue? i would love if you announce it now so ppl could actually prepare for it MarioDX 18:08, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

You're (or at least should be) preparing for it now. The Reapers will call you when the time comes. — Poki#3 (talk) 18:31, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

I've had this question since the first time I read the quest dialogue: how the f* are we supposed to prepare for this? O_o Other than the obvious max armor/weapons, are we supposed to buy out every skill in the game, or what? Rose Of Kali 18:43, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they want us to sign our characters to work out? i heard the new "Bear Club for Men" has opened up. now seriously Regina ask the team and post you answer here, ppl wanna know

I'll give you an answer: "When it's done". Have some suspense and patience man... And Rose, have some imagination ^^; — Poki#3 (talk) 21:34, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

The smell of public annoyance in LA has the nasty ability to dumb down immersion. Rose Of Kali 22:20, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah yes... Personally I prefer the smell of mahogany in my Guild Hall, and try to avoid the more crowded places if I can. — Poki#3 (talk) 23:17, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Ok seriously, what is going on with the quest? MarioDX 12:19, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't mind waiting, not for the sake of waiting anyway. I found it quite fun the way it was called The Waiting Game ... what spoils the fun for me is the fact I'm scared that I won't be here to do the quest. Not knowing when it is, or for how long it'll be available, means I'm fretting (and I assume others may be too) for that fact. Not for actually being forced to wait.

If someone had said "the quest will, we won't say when, but it'll be available for a whole week to finish!" then I wouldn't complain, or fret much. But right now, I don't know if it'll be available for a weekend, or worse, just a day (like Mad King's appearance at the end of Halloween) ... or anything really.

- Kherec 13:25, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

hey Regina? do you have an answer? MarioDX 16:00, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

He is now awake and waiting for you after completing the UW quests... -- Sparafucile 15:56, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Shadow form

"This was not an attempt to address all of the concerns about Shadow Form Assassins. That will happen in the next major skill update, which will include big changes to Shadow Form and may also include changes to other prominent farming skills."

I'll believe it when I see it. You (Anet) have shown time and time again that you "think" you're fixing things, but in reality you don't do anything to actually stop the problem, just make it slightly harder to do (oh noes, I have 1 second to push this button instead of 2 seconds but I can still be permanently invincible lulz!!). I have absolutely no faith that permanent invincibility will ACTUALLY be stopped... and EVEN IF IT IS... it's much too late. This has been a problem for nearly a YEAR now. A YEAR to fix the OBVIOUS broken game mechanic of "permanent invincibility." It's too little WAY too late. You've already lost at least one customer for GW2 right here. I refuse to buy any future NCSoft games, including GW2, and will be sure to discourage everyone I know irl and on every message board I attend from purchasing GW2 or other NCSoft games because of how terrible and slowly game "problems" are treated. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 173.79.39.237 (talk) at 05:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC).

Such anger. It's a game. I remember when games didn't get "fixed," at all. In fact, that wasn't that long ago, you should remember it too... (Satanael | talk) 08:17, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

On a vaguely related note, Regina, I was wondering about that little bit you posted on your blog as well. I've never much cared about SF one way or the other, but I have always cared about the playability of GW for people who want it to be playable the normal way. Sure, the addition of Dhuum has significantly slowed down SF groups, but did the team seriously consider the doability and playability for other classes? For balanced groups?

For people who want to play UW the normal way (and those still exist!) it already took some time, and the way some of the quests work (or work after the recent updates) hasn't made this easier. Now that we need to beat Dhuum too before we're done with the UW I expect it to take significantly longer than before. It sounds like a good challenge and I'll be giving it a go, but I get the feeling that while the update was well-intended it wasn't entirely well thought out in some respects. I guess right now the wait is for all the community feedback to come in- and I'm sure the feedback from the "normal" players will be interesting to see. :)

On a more light-hearted note, does this mean we can expect to be running into Menzies in FoW in the future? ;) -- Elv 11:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Strong builds will always exist. Full time computer game players will always profit above average. The problem is that nerfing farm builds unfairly targets those who haven't completed farming based goals that the game offers. SF provides invincibility only under certain conditions and has a limited damage output. It is useful, yes, but do you want all useful builds removed from the game to make it a place where only the worst freaks can reach their goals? And actually most of them have already reached them, so do you want to get rid of the normal casual farmers by making things hard to the extreme? If you look at the skill list of the first printed GW manuals and compare it with today, you would think it's another game. "Normal" players get significantly less drops, affront more intelligent foes and even if they succeed after a year to get their character "Ursan" or "SF" ready to make some money they have to restart from 0, finding what is used after the nerf, getting ready to use it, to finally see the skill nerfed before they can even start using it... Permanently changing the game according to the "needs" of the 10hrs/day player is unfair to all the others. At least the daily changes caused by PvP is over now. Changing and discussing the rules all the time may be fun, but doesn't make the game better. When have the chess rules be changed last time? In GW the Queens would have been nerfed already 10 times :) --- Marcus The Cube

None of that simply addresses the fact that perma-invincibility is simply wrong and should not exist under any circumstances. God mode is bad especially when that god mode only applies to 1 profession. -- Salome 13:13, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Funny how people who do nothing but farm never complain with the truth. We never see a farmer coming here to say...

• "I like a game in which someone who can only play one hour per day makes ten platinum per day and I make 100 platinum, regardless of who's more skilled, so I can inflate prices way over the reach of the majority of players as I and my hardcore farmers friends can buy desirable items for unrealistic prices"
• "I like how I can beat the hardest areas of the game by using a team build in which no one has to think in order to accomplish anything, rather repeat the same steps over and over. I like how casual players who are just trying to have fun in those areas don't even understand what we're saying when we ask for specific team roles, and how we kick them from our groups when they don't have the exact build we want"
• "I like pushing prices up by using items like ectoplasm as money; when we artificially increase their value like this, we keep those items outside the reach of casual players and so we know we're really 1337 when we wear our FoW armor dyed black with Chaos Gloves"

No, instead farmers come here and say "think of the poor casual players who wouldn't waste their time farming, rather having fun who won't be able to grind as much regardless of how I grind much more, so I end with far more gold anyway and so won't be able to buy all the stuff I they want but can't have since plenty of prices are artificially increased". Erasculio 13:31, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Casual or not, ArenaNet will have a tough time making a relentlessly honest inventory of the current player base. Those people playing the game do have fun, no matter how silly "Invincibility Grinding" appears to the rest. The problem are not the people whose only motivation has become greed and the pursuit of 10.000:1 dropchances in endchests. The problem remains with the rest, those people who feel disenfranchised when they see ArenaNet dangling a carrot in front of their face they know has insane requirements only this other group of people can meet. Lashing out on forums is the natural reaction to that in 2009. But new bossfights and new endchests are just the thing to excite anybody really. But when people find out that the chest at the end of a dungeon is basically worthless because any decent item's drop rate has been reduced to zero in an effort to stop 7 minute speed clearers from killing the rarity of said skins, then people just leave. Why play that? Sure, kill Dhuum once with the guild, but the replay value is zero except you are into those final three titles that only 6000 platinum can buy. We do not need THE ONE way to play a dungeon and tear the community apart over what exactly THE ONE way is. We need incentives to deviate from farmgrinding. Show a regular non-farmgrinding player that his non-self-destructive efforts are treasured just as much. That no caste of supergrinders is making all skins but a few dirt cheap. That "normal" players are rewarded and that the game actively tries to connect them to other players for meaningful non-class-discriminatory play. The Zaishen Quests showed that this was possible. Look at all the weird missions people are playing again. Buying weapons with Zaishen coins is great. I want that 38 Gold Crystalline, because it tells people that I did play with other people fair and square to earn that. Find me a gold item that can communicate the same thing! You want SF gone from UW? Remove the chest, remove the ectos. You want people to play UW and get killer rewards? Make it a Zaishen Quest: Defeat Dhuum, Bonus: Have no class twice in your team. Bonus 2: Do it without PvE skills. Bonus 3: HM ladies! You might still want to bring the right skills to this "elite" area now, but at least there is going to be more than one gimmick build. At least it is no longer about smashing my head against a brick wall in eight minute intervals for half a year. At least the normal people (not the casuals!) are no longer confronted with some extreme players ruining any reward-balance there might have been beyond the non-grindy titles. Do not nerf to kill builds and annoy people! Incentivice diversity. If sologrinding is too effective and becomes too dominant, then reward other things more.--4thvariety 14:29, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, I didn't read that last WoT, but I would like to add to the "casual" playerbase complaint. I've never used godmode sins, I made one, but I've never used it, go figure. I've tried getting into competent player groups yesterday (with a necro), groups where most players have completed UW before, where newbies actually listened to instructions (OMG can you believe it?), and we even used full consets, personal cons, team management, and anything else you can think of for an average balanced team who has a clue, and we were unable to finish 4 times in a row, after spending a few hours on the whole thing. The vast majority of party search is for the new "mobway" which is still full of assassins, and is still by far the fastest way to complete UW. Yes, you made it harder for speed-clears, but it just slowed down everyone, and assassins in godmode are still by far the prevalent group. The same people are still making all the ectos and all the new minis/scythes. And even if you "fix" SF in the near future, as promised, this will make UW such a pain in the ass (5 hours for a small chance of paying off? nty...) for everyone, that anyone who had a stock of ectos (again, your godmode farmers) will become instantly several times richer, and others will be even more pissed than before. Way to go. :/ Rose Of Kali 15:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I hope they do merely change the functionality of Shadow Form as opposed to just nerfing it so it doesn't work, replacing a bad skill with a good one is better than just replacing a bad skill.--Orry 16:05, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Wow, I can't believe that people are actually complaining about ANet creating a challenge for us, that's absurd. Kali, were you around or do you remember when Tombs first came out? It took months before people thought to use rangers to clear it. For the longest time the most common team build was to bring 5 echo nukers and just outblast the place, sure it took 2+ hours and hardly ever worked, but that was the only way people could figure to do it at all. In the first couple of days after Tombs came out, nobody could figure out a quick and easy way to clear it. Dhuum has been out for how long? You're right, maybe nobody has figured out a reliable, quick way to clear UW yet, but that's why it's called an elite area, and figuring that out is part of the fun of doing it.

I speak as a casual player, whose greatest achievement is having enough 4 year-old characters to have gotten almost a complete set of minis without buying any of them. I have never farmed anything, and don't care to. If ANet wants to make UW harder for farmers, and that ends up challenging me as well, I say bring it on. If given the choice between chess and checkers, I will take chess every time. If given the choice between a rubik's cube and a form board, I'll take the rubik's cube every time. Thank you ANet, for giving me a challenge that doesn't take 30 seconds to figure out. I'm glad that I can go to UW now and not have to conform exactly to some well established team build from which no can deviate if they want to play. I can now show up with the character I want and the build I want, and people will be willing to try it. (Satanael | talk) 17:52, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Rofl... First of all, don't compare 2 hours to 5 hours+fail cus some reaper somewhere died. Second, people HAVE figured out the "new" UW: it's called "mobway" and consists of a buttload of sins, again. Third, Tombs was new, UW is far from it, and got hardly changed. Last, how many "balanced" groups enter the UW now for every "mobway" group? I just wonder how long it will take before people figure out the "next best thing" to clear UW after SF gets nerfed, it'll just go from one thing to another (like Obsi-tank, for example), unless they change more than spawn locations and adding some skeles. Rose Of Kali 18:15, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Mobway is just what they have figured out for now, just like the 5 ele builds at tombs before they figured out BP. At some point some genius will figured out a better way to clear it, and that will become the build du jour. So you're right, it will just move from one thing to the next, but that's the nature of the game, and can't be changed. With 1300+ skills and enough time, someone is going to figure out the "best" way to clear UW no matter what, and people are always going to levitate to that.

All I'm saying is that the intent was just to mix things up a bit, give us a puzzle to figure out, and it seems obvious to me that it was successful in that regard. It won't take 5 hours forever, so just relax and try to be that genius that cracks the puzzle for everybody. or if you don't like puzzles, then wait for somebody else to figure it out, I bet it won't take that long. (Satanael | talk) 18:28, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

You say it like anything that is better than mobway isn't going to have groups consisting of permanent invincibility, which is as far away from reality as it can get. Optimism only works if it actually adheres in some way to reality, not building sand castles in the air, nor making presumptuous and ridiculous claims. Pika Fan 19:11, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Post SF-nerf, what exactly would that permanent invincibility be? The truth is, I have no idea what it would be, but I don't think "permanent invincibility" is a forgone conclusion. There are a lot of possible builds out there, and believe it or not, it is possible to beat even the toughest areas without SF or some similar super-armor skill. (Satanael | talk) 06:44, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

"Possible" and "reasonable" aren't the same. Having to spend several hours more on something is not reasonable, when it can be done much faster with a broken gimmick build. Thus, we have the "gimmickers" and the rest who don't even bother. Because of all the gimmick builds, some areas have been made tougher to counter the gimmick farming, but all that did was put the non-gimmickers further and further out of play in such areas, and inflate the prices of the farmed items. Rose Of Kali 14:35, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The game rule changes are extremely unfair as they punish only those that haven't had the chance to use these "strong" skills. So it's not a surprise that primarily those that have full stacks of ectos because of using these farm methods advocate for stopping that abuse as they are afraid that the economy will devaluate their precious items if also the mob starts to farm them... Marcus The Cube

Let's be clear here, there is absolutely possitively no possible way to prevent people from coming up with "gimmick" builds. All they are doing there is finding the most efficient way of going through an area. You can not force people into balanced groups. So there will always be the choice between going with the gimmick build and getting it done in 5 minutes, or going with a balanced group and taking your time.

As you say, the balanced groups right now take a long time, a very long time in some cases. But that won't last forever either. Even the balanced groups will find better ways of doing it. Even if you are not putting together a gimmick team, you can still choose some skills over others, and that means you can find a better way of doing it.

All I'm saying is that yes, the way people have been doing it lately doesn't work without taking too much time, so try another way. Figure it out, that's the point of the game. That's why we play GW, which forces us to be strategic about our skill choices, and not WoW, which let's us bring every skill with us wherever we go.

You have to remember, this place has been up for less than a week. You have to be patient. I virtually garauntee that in a month's time, even the balanced groups will have figured out how to beat Dhuum in a reasonable amount of time. (Satanael | talk) 18:37, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Virtually guarantee? Really? I realize that there's always a more efficient way of doing something. The problem here is that there is one way that does it EXTREMELY efficiently, while any other way if basically a waste of time, because some reaper or the Iceman will get killed for their own stupidity, and all the people who just spent several hours trying this, ragequit and don't want to return anytime soon. The problem here is that this area puts a glaring emphasis on the differences between gimmick and not, and this problem was repeatedly "solved" not by weakening/removing the gimmick, but by making the area harder and harder, so that it's becoming harder for the gimmick, but... Eh, whatever, you shoul've gotten the point by now. Rose Of Kali 19:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Have to agree with Rose here. Just ran two unsuccessful tries through the UW. Let me make one thing very clear here- I was on an experienced guild team, running a balanced build. None of us were new to the UW and I don't think we had any "bad" players. The problem is that while the new version of UW slows down the gimmicky invinci-team, it makes it near impossible for any other sort of team to play it (we wiped thanks to NPC deaths both times, and both times from the new and insane damage spiking some of the foes come with). I don't have a problem with gimmicky builds per se, but I do have a problem when it's really the only way to efficiently play anything. If the difference between gimmick and non-gimmick becomes several hours of playtime (or simply success vs failure), then the gimmick is overpowered. The solution to that in not to make the area harder or make it take longer, because that does not by any means solve the problem at the core: the time difference. It remains the same, or it grows, or it turns into success/failure.

Regina proudly commented that perma teams took 85 minutes to clear the UW now, which I'm sure is wonderful if that was the only effect of the changes to UW. Unfortunately it's not only significantly increased play times for any other teams, it's also made it an insane amount harder. Frankly, the UW didn't need to be harder (FoW however could do with a little more spice), and the only significant result I see so far is that people are feeling more forced to resort to the gimmick, rather than trying something else.

I'll be giving this a few more tries, but thus far I've not even come anywhere near Dhuum. If ANet's trying to tackle the issue of speed clears, it's going to need to take a completely different approach than the current one. This one only punishes the people trying to play something non-gimmicky, it doesn't do much for improving the game. -- Elv 19:53, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit] About those "changes to other prominent farming skills"

Sounds like a pretty obvious reference to 600/smite. Please remind the devs to kindly bear in mind that PS and SB are vital staple skills in many, many non-farming contexts. These skills should probably not be messed with, or, if you absolutely must, messed with in an extremely cautious manner. I would much rather see the smite components of 600/smite nerfed into the ground, since no one uses those in non-farming contexts. -64.131.162.104 19:45, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

You mean Holy Wrath? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 19:51, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

PS could be nerfed to end after X attacks. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 23:06, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

That would be pointless. PS is an anti-pressure skill, not an anti-spike skill. So, in order to keep that role, it would have to have a relatively high incoming attack limit. The thing is, it has a five-second recharge. So, really, it'd still be easy to keep up during the early part of a SoA (the only time you need PS up; SoA easily kills even large packets of damage after a short while), if not indefinitely.

I think the best way to kill 600/smite would be to make PS, SoA, and SB easily interrupted in PvE, and then to nerf Mantra of Resolve. Even then, it'd still be possible with Protective Bond, but runs would go from 2-man to 4-man. is for Raine, etc. 00:06, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

i would rather do something with HW and retribution instead of those skills InfestedHydralisk 00:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I was just responding to the "nerf PS" comment - I'd also much rather see HW/Retribution nerfed. is for Raine, etc. 02:46, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

For me PS is what you put on yourself before running into a huge boss. Without having a further look at the builds (I don't really PvE), I'd suspect that doing that would just lead into reverse builds etc. ---Chaos- (talk) -- 09:59, 22 November 2009 (UTC)