Talk:Guide to playing as a warrior

Oh WOW! Thanks for the help Biz! Done25 19:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

What ever you do, don't add statements like : warrior is hardest thing, or warrior needs to be smartest, as far as general ignorant puny caster community =) is concerned war are stupid bricks who do nothing but causing people to fail missions. And Sign =P Biz 19:17, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

P.S. If you need a source for inspiration here: http://www.guildwarshelp.com/community/index.php?showtopic=428 is the guide i wrote not tolong ago, took me 3 good days too. Biz 19:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I'd rather see articles as class guides follow a different structure than what you guys have here so far. Links to articles, with short blurbs contained in overviews for PvX (tips that pertain to all warriors), PvE and PvP warriors. For example, in the PvE warrior section, briefly mention tanking and link to an article about the same. We've already have an article on IAS with a listing of the IAS skills, don't see the point of listing them again here.

Really, it could all fit as notes in the main article for each class.--Drekmonger 19:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Well if it is in a guide it is in one place and it can be simplified for peopele who have no idea how to play. I wish this was around when I got started two years ago. As for the IAS artical can I see it?

IAS Biz 19:28, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Tanking also has an article already.--Drekmonger 19:30, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Drekmonger to some extent - if these guides are to be written, I'd much prefer a very neutral tone - e.g. this is what IAS is, here's a link to a list. This is what kiting is, how can you get around it. Weapon speeds, etc. If people try to define "the best way to play a warrior", it ends up being a mire of personal opinion. -- AT(talk | contribs) 19:31, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

i think it's ok like this >.> especially like the mending note ;) - Y0_ich_halt 19:32, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

That's the problem - you may think it's ok, but many people will have different opinions. Stuff like this:

" "Then again some warriors will tell you not to bother with healing and bring defense instead and leave the monking to the monk. After which the monk will say: Bring healing or I'm leaving. As such remember: Yes it is the monk's job to heal you but s/he will be eternally grateful if s/he doesn't have to heal every scratch you get."

is highly subjective, and shouldn't be included imo. -- AT(talk | contribs) 19:40, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Done, could you sign comments please? It's the squiggly icon on the top of the edit window. I'm fine and good with mentioning that mending sucks, however the tone in this article isn't neutral. Rather than saying why mending sucks, explaining why it's a bad idea for most warrior builds, it basically just says, "Mending Sucks". As AT says, that's not a great idea.--Drekmonger 19:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

That... and more is about to change, besides there are no failed creations, every time you cooperate to recreate something old you end up with something new. Biz 19:44, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

okok, i admit, i didn't read the whole article. - Y0_ich_halt 19:59, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

BTW, Weapon swapping also an article. I suggest exploring what people have already written in the wiki, and seeing what you can link to instead of re-inventing the wheel. I can think of a a few things that could be in a good warrior guide, but so far it just looks like a lot of information that's already in the wiki (and in a better form in their original articles).--Drekmonger 19:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Then take the useless stuff out of the artical or move the good stuff here so that it is all in one place. I dont't mind. (ps. I know how to sign I just forget -_-) Done25 19:54, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

LOL. I was a Warrior and caused numerous mission/bonus failures when it came to having to listen in on conversations or not to kill certain enemies. I just ran in and killed everyone. And the teams couldn't kick me out then, since I was the only tank. --68.207.156.253 22:23, 18 October 2008 (UTC)Kaysan Smithee

Mending in Things to Avoid

Stop putting mending up here, just because its a meme doesn't mean its inherently bad. It may not be a superbly effective skill, but that does not mean others should avoid it. Having mending does NOT make you a worse tank. Yes there are bad tanks out there (alot of them) who use it thinking it makes them invincible, but a lot of the better tanks also use it too.

Mending does NOT ruin a build. Say what you want about it, but it's use does NOT make a person a worse tank just by using it.

ADDED: Furthermore, saying mending is 'bad' is not very objective.Counciler 00:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

the only thing is, if you have a slot for mending, monk secondary and enough attrib points to make it regen 3 pips, you could also just use heal area or pump up prot and use RoF. maybe you don't even know which elite to take, so healing hands could be ok for you (although that's not a really good choice either). vigorous spirit is always a good alternative. it doesn't require more healing prayers to heal more than mending and it's good to help other teammates, especially assassins. - Y0_ich_halt 11:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't deny that there are far better alternatives, but I think that putting mending in the "things to avoid" section is going too far. If it doesn't damage your build significantly, it doesn't belong there. Counciler 20:22, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Well if using a skill will get someone kicked out of a group. Shouldn't we warn them about it? Done25

was just gonna say that (edit conflict). my wording: agree there. it might, though, damage your team. most leavers i whispered afterwards had their reason in someone with mending. - Y0_ich_halt 20:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Any counters as to mending being warned about? Done25 20:39, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

i'd rather warn monks who see someone using it. - Y0_ich_halt 20:47, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Heheh. So any issues with puting a warning in about it? No? Alright then! How are we going to state it?

Mending does suck, but it needs to be explained with numbers and in a neutral tone why it sucks, and what the better alternatives are.--Drekmonger 21:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

i could mention i had a section on my userpage called "Why vigorous spirit is better than mending"... - Y0_ich_halt 21:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, I think the things to avoid section should not be based on leavers and their reasons. If a skill does not damage the effectiveness of a build significantly, I see no reason why it should be in the things to avoid section.

In fact... I think this entire article, along with the other profession 'guides' should be nuked. In my not so humble opinion, a wiki is not the place for something so potentially subjective. These kinds of guides should be in a forum, instead of being on an unbiased wiki. If this article should include anything, it should be little more than links to guides in forums. I'm not going to run around with a picket banner about this, but expect me to vote negatively on these articles if ever I see a discussion on possible deletion. Feel free to flame. Counciler 01:03, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't suck because people leave. People leave becuase it SUCKS! And if you don't want a guide on here why not just empty the page and put up a link to guildwiki's guides? Done25 04:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, I'm not sure I'm allowed to take matters into my own hands like that. And the fact that YOU say its horrid, and I say its not only further proves my point that this article can't cover a subject as opinionated as this in an unbiased fashion.

ADDED: If you absolutely MUST say that Mending is a bad idea for a warrior as a primary heal, place it as a side note in the healing section. Don't list it under things to avoid, because it still has it's uses whether you like to admit it or not. Counciler 06:45, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

That discussion would go here --Xeeron 07:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

i added the note under "healing" now. your opinions, please. - Just_m3 19:50, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks good, I added the last line to it. Counciler 19:55, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

that sounded like "mending is trash" again, imo >.> changed it slightly. - Just_m3 21:57, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't like the note about mending in healing. IMHO people make WAAAY too much fuss about the skill as there are THOUSANDS of other choices a player can makethat are less than ideal, not just in skills, that are more common than a tank that uses mending. By continuing to say mending is a bad skill is reinforcing the belief some players have that they are justified in leaving a game. The not about more experienced players leaving games when someone brings mending also reinforces this behaviour and I beleive it should be removed. If someone leaves a game because the tank uses mending, that's a problem of the person who left, not the tank that uses mending. I've seen many tanks who used mending that were FAAAAAR better than other tanks without it. The skill isn't as bad as people say it is and I think it should be removed from this article all together. Dancing Gnome 22:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

this is supposed to be a serious question: have you ever played monk? for a long period, meaning you made experiences? - Y0_ich_halt 22:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

My main character has been a monk since prophecy, only recently have I started playing a warrior more often, and no I don't use mending. Some of the best tanks I've played with did, sure it wasnt their only skill but it was FAAAR better than a warrior who didn't bring a heal at all, or a warrior who used franzy and heal sig at the same time. My point is this mending comment in the article is harmful to the community as it endorses the actions of players leaving games. The section as it is looks like a waste of space, opinionated and should be removed imho. Dancing Gnome 20:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

as this is in the main namespace, you are right, personal views must be left out as much as possible... mending isn't completely useless, but it's also not really useful. your tank using this might've done even better using watch yourself or something else, lion's comfort, vigorous spirit,... there is a reason to keep a note about mending somewhere in the article, as it really causes people to think of you as a noob. even if you aren't, prejudice has its power. but maybe we shouldn't name that section "what to avoid". in my guide, for example, i named the equivalent section "dangerous". that would be wrong for mending, too. but we have "healing", and there's a note about it there. read that note (third paragraph under "Healing"). - Y0_ich_halt 21:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Self-heal revert

That section is badly worded and the main point (no warrior without self heal) is far from uncontroversial. If you want something about warrior self-heals, write a balanced section comparing advantages and disadvantages, the current version needs to go. --Xeeron 13:12, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Here is an advantage of bringing a heal: It frees the monk up to heal someone else. Disadvantage: It takes a slot up. What else is there to write? Done25 17:21, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Well if that is all the story, write it there. Better than only showing one side. --Xeeron 17:43, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

well done, aberrant. :) - Y0_ich_halt 19:01, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Tanking

Always make sure you don't overfill. - Just_m3 16:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Heh. Done25 18:14, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

what? :) - Just_m3 18:15, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't we add that Defy Pain now removes 10 from all damage you take, even armor ignoring (think snow ball), that + 40 armor from Dolyak and you will be taking with almost no damage from normal hits. Biz 11:42, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

It's not in there yet? Done25 16:11, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

"Two skills that are very useful for tanking are Defy Pain and Endure Pain. these skills increase a warriors health to well over 1000, greatly annoying anyone who is about to kill you. These skills are useful for tanking because, combined with several insignias, a warrior is usually the last one standing in a fight." Done25 16:12, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

AI doesn't get annoyed and tanking fails in PvP. -- Gordon Ecker 23:23, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Actually Defy is actually a really powerful skill. Great for tanking stupid NPCs in GvG/Quarry/Fort Aspen and it spits in the face of AoE damage. Ex. Breath of Fire 40 damage /2 = 20/2 = 10 - 10 = 0 Done25 00:00, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I forgot about them, but they're still NPCs, how could it possibly annoy them? -- Gordon Ecker 00:13, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I just took a defy pain tank to aspen with the luxons and i generally wasnt avoided, after a push into the fort infront of the last gate i was the last man standing after those with me were killed, i survived all the NPCs plus a couple of palm strikers and a ranger long enough for my team to res, come back and kill them off, note: it also kept those players away from their objectives thus greatly hindering the kurzick team in general, i would say tanking can be pretty handy if the players against you dont realise they are being held up. Shogun 15:30, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't know I did't write this part. I guess it's talking about when you hit someone with weakness and it drops their damage to around 10 making you invunerable. Not much point in attacking a person if they are the only one who can deal damage. Done25 00:50, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

To take care of elemental damage, put some insignias that guard against it. Right now, on my armor I have:

Attribute raising minor runes; insignias in all slots to give me 100 Armor vs. Elemental damage and 100 Armor vs. Physical damage; Infusion; and vigor weapons, shield and runes to give me over 600 health.

With all this, I am the last man standing about 90% of the time. And I have an elite defensive skill and several normal defensive skills and a res sigint, yet I do very well in PvP with my tanking (and I almost always manage to take several people out as well). Sometimes, to spice things up, I utilize my Mesmer secondary and surprise my opponents. Then, take them out when I catch them off guard. --68.207.156.253 18:10, 23 October 2008 (UTC)Kaysan Smithee

Secondaries

Seeing as there is deffinitly not a lack of interest in this article, and other how tos, would it be too much of a hassle to add in a secondaries section? I understand this article is already controvertial as it is, but I think one of the biggest questions most players have when they start a new character is what secondary will I play? I know the combination possibilities are almost endless and you can use so many different skills but it wouldnt hurt to point out the most obvious benefits to playing different secondaries. Example of this would be with ranger you have Troll Unguent and the elite Melandru's Resilience (my fave warrior tanking skill and a permanent stance) as potential heals. You also have antidote signet as a possible blind removal for 0 energy not to mention access to poison. I'm not sure if anyone else sees this the same way as I do (which is the only possible problem I see with adding a secondaries section) but those are the skills I think I find most appealing with ranger secondary on a warrior. The idea is to give any new players a brief overview of skills from secondary schools which a warrior might find most useful. Another example would be for monk primaries, advising players that mesmer skills have good energy removal and hex removal (not as important as it once was with good hex removal in monk skills now). Helping people choose their secondary can have a huge impact on how they play their warrior, and for someone who doesn't know much about playing a warrior or many other classes it could be a huge help. Dancing Gnome 22:26, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

i'll do it tomorrow if noone does it until then. but for today it's too late for me. gotta get some sleep tonight. - Y0_ich_halt 22:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Organization across all of these guides

After comparing all of the great ideas in the sections in these Profession guides, I've tried to bring together a single format for all of them to use. The information has not been changed, but in some cases it has been reorganized so that readers will know what to expect across all guides.

Because of this, many guides will have incomplete sections. I believe this is worth it to have the great sections cover all of the guides and have more complete organization.

I’m adding this explanation to all of the guides’ Talk pages so everyone can see it regardless of which guide they see first.--Declan 20:24, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Source?

"Frenzy is generally considered the best all-round IAS skill for PvP; warriors are rarely the focus of attention due to their heavy armour...

...In particular, do not use Healing Signet while in a Frenzy; the combination means you will take quadruple damage". 

Whats the source of THAT? frenzy makes you take double damage, granted. Healing signet reduces your armor by 40. 200% damage + 40 armor reduction equals in 400% damage taken? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:77.125.101.3 (talk).

Yes, -40 armor = double damage, damage multipliers stack with armor reduction and 2*2=4. -- Gordon Ecker 03:18, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

-40 armor only means double damage if you have 80 armor total and damage taken is phys or ele, far from all warriors are running around with no shield and war natural armor range from 80 to 133. Biz 14:42, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be confused about damage calculation. A difference of 40 armor scales damage up or down by a factor of two. Against armor respecting damage, a warrior with 40 armor takes twice as much damage as a warrior with 80, and a warrior with 93 armor takes twice as much as a warrior with 133. Also, there are some sources of non-physical, non-elemental damage which does not ignore armor, such as Avatar of Balthazar. It's more complicated due to armor penetration, armor-ignoring damage (including bonus damage from attack skills) and direct health loss (including health degeneration and life stealing). -- Gordon Ecker 00:45, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Warrior/Mesmer needs to be changed.

My first character, Kaysan Smithee, has been around for over a year and a half. And out of that time, I have only seen one other W/Me. I used to never use my Mesmer skills until I went into the Tomb of Primeval Kings and other high end PvE areas. It was only then that I utilized some of my Mesmer skills. In fact, a single ability saved our team and made us succeed. I was able to use my "Conjure Phantasm" ability to inflict -5 health degeneration for 11 seconds. That, coupled with "Sever Artery" which causes bleeding for 20 seconds with -3 health degeneration caused MAJOR damage and health degen. Allowing our team to knockout the enemies with ridiculously high HP. I think this strategy should be added under "W/Me tips." W/Me is a rare and underestimated combo. In fact, my Mesmer secondary was the only reason I was able to get into a group for the Tomb of Primeval Kings level, as I was surrounded by A/E "perma sins." It has even saved my butt a few times in PvP too.

If I knew how to post my Skill bar in this article, I would show a good Skill set for a good Tank, as well as a good W/Me combination. I would also list the points needed on certain Attributes to fully utilize that skill set. --68.207.156.253 22:28, 18 October 2008 (UTC)Kaysan Smithee

It doesn't need changing.W/Me sucks except for the stances mentioned,therefore no need for a change.Conjure Phantasm is NOT a party saver or a dealer of "damage".Surrounded by permas you aren't needed(lol sins can solo tombs easily,you AREN'T needed as much as you seem to think),they can deal plenty of physical damage without needing crappy degen from CP.You also seem to be confusing the mechanics of killing.

Degen from Sever artery+Conjure Phantasm,is just that.It's casting a skill and charging adrenaline to use sever to cause bleeding. Your foe dies SLOWLY which is plenty of time for them to kill you.

Physical Damage (that a warrior SHOULD be doing) Is an outright winner every single time.Hard hitting,constant DPS and most importantly quick

This guide should NOT be changed to add Conjure Phantasm. Ever BlackBlood - talk 21:25, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

You seem to have a beef with the W/Me setup for two reasons. (and you seem to hate the W/Me setup more than you do the W/Mo setup) One is the Warrior's low energy pool and poor energy regeneration. The other is that you think there aren't that many Mesmer skills a Warrior can effectively utilize. Both those are legitamate reasons to question the setup. But alas, one of the main reasons for the setup is one I have repeated several times: it catches people off guard. But to remedy some of the problems, here we go. (and keep in mind, I listed my equipment in a paragraph above, so you know that I utilize a few runes to keep my stats up. And I utilize special weapons, shields and insignias to keep my HP nice and high. This gives me some extra points to work with.) If used right, you should be able to keep 3 of your Warrior skills high (11 or higher), an allocate enough points into a single Mesmer skill so that that attribute is level 10. (3 Warrior skills = Strength, which should be at 13 anyway; Tactics; and the weapon attribute of your choice) 10 is a fairly decent level for a secondary attribute.

To take care of the energy issue, use the elite skill, Warrior's Endurance. That should take care of any energy problems you have, even though the Warrior has low E-Regen. You will be gaining energy at a steady rate. It is the Warrior equivalent to the Elite Ranger skill, Marksman's Wager. If used properly, you can have almost limitless energy if you combine it with the Inspiration Magic skill, Energy Tap. Since the Warrior only has normally 20 energy, you don't need to allocate that many points to Inspiration magic for it to work. With those two skills, energy is no longer a factor.

Inspiration Magic is a useful attribute. Not only do you have Energy Tap to keep your energy high, you also have access to a few more useful skills in this attribute. Good skills to utilize are actually mentioned in the main article, and those are the Mantras, such as Mantra of Flame. Another good skill would be Ether Feast, as it doesn't have the -40 Armor that Healing Signet has, so it can make for a decent self heal, and to give the Monk of the party some respite.

Illusion Magic could be good to provide some disruption to the enemy. Some skills to utilize here. One is the ever present Conjure Phantasm to cause some energy degen, and if your level is 10 on Illusion Magic, you are looking at 11 seconds of degen that the enemy now has to deal with, on top of your normal attacks. I wouldn't recommend using this to try to deliver a knockout to the enemy, but to cause some additional damage to offset some regen they may be getting. In PvP, this nearly always catches people off guard. Imagined Burden is good to stall the enemy in case you need a retreat, and it irritates the hell out of people in PvP. Soothing Images shuts down other Warriors who rely on too many Adrenaline abilities. I have been shut down and taken out myself with this skill, and on too many occasions. (along with Pacifism.)

The last area is Domination Magic. There are many useful abilities here. Such as Shatter Hex for hex removal; Energy Burn to use the targets energy against them; Empathy, if used at the right time (on yourself), can easily make some IAS skills suicide skills, and this is doubly true if it was Frenzy and you and he are locked in melee combat; and of course, Arcane Thievery to spice things up.

And keep in mind, the element of surprise is critical, but one which you should have no problem achieving. --68.207.156.253 07:40, 27 October 2008 (UTC)Kaysan Smithee

See, imo you're trying to do too much. Like, in a normal scenario, a warrior gets blind, he uses mend touch/antidote signet, he's back in the fight. With your build he gets blind, casts 1 spell, waits 10s or so for blind to wear off, gets back into the fight, might get blinded again before he can regain enough energy for more casting. So, instead of supporting what he does best (melee damage), you try to double-spec while still reliant on what a warrior does best: melee damage. --JonTheMon 14:21, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

I would never use a conjure on my warrior because you have to take too much away from the attributes that really matter like whatever weapon master, tactics, strength, etc.-- anguard 14:43, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Because tactics is important. - Auron 00:50, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

I remember when I first played and tried double-speccing bow-sword. Never really used the sword, the warrior henchmen had melee covered. --Riddle 01:07, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Just a little something that came to mind when thinking of W/Me, what about Epidemic combined with a few conditions, for example, aggro melee foes, Sever Artery -> Gash -> Epidemic and straight away you have every melee attacker with bleeding and deep wound. Epidemic is only 5 energy, short recharge time and requires no attribute point investment, possibly worth an add to the secondary proffesion section on W/Me? Shogun 12:44, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

warriors in pve

I find it odd that the article acts as if the only way to play a warrior in pve is to tank. Maybe that is the general mindset of the PvE-players here, but tanking is by far the least efficient way to use a warrior, especially in PvE. Warriors are meant to kill things. That is what they do best. Koda Kumi talk 14:20, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Add something fun in the Play Style section then... Im thinking Damager, Hammer Warrior, Disrupter, Condition dealer and AoE Dmg might be added there. Wars are terrible at killing stuff, compared to few other professions, while pure tanking isn't the best strategy mixing up tanking with damage might just be it, If the article is somewhat tank oriented change it around to be more neutral. Biz 15:01, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I know not enough about the best DPS profession in the game that is 100% of the time being shoehorned into being tank. Maybe someone with enough knowledge about warriors can edit this? Koda Kumi talk 15:31, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok... added damage dealer into the mix. Ive even used DPS in the description =) Biz 00:30, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the AoE section. Done25 19:26, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Even more secondary lulz

I think about half of these articles need to be rewritten. # Vow of Strength works extremly well because of its long duration and need of only a handful of attribute points to make it effective. Because a Warrior with no conditions rocks, amirite? etc. etc. --Gah Eat my uber regen. 16:18, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Rewritten is a strong word, id say, adjusted or edited instead... Biz 10:41, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

not that i care,

but is saying that warriors allow other players to deal damage unmolested really the right wording? correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought molestation was sexual abuse. Roflmaomgz 19:13, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Isent Mole Station in west england? :/ --Neil2250 , Render Lord 19:15, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

tr.v., -lest·ed, -lest·ing, -lests. 1. To disturb, interfere with, or annoy. 2. To subject to unwanted or improper sexual activity. So its Both... Id change that wording though. Biz 23:32, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Overdue cleanup

Any self-proclaimed warrior experts please contribute; using the cleanly formated dervish article as reference. --Falconeye (talk) 21:31, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

You did some cleanup on this page after the Profession Guide template, are you planning on continueing it any time soon? Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 12:30, 2 October 2018 (UTC)