Talk:Jack of All Trades

Effects

Does "buffs" include runes?--71.215.83.7 04:12, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

My 10e spells costed 8e, and I relied on runes to hit some attribute to 9. So no. Diogo da Silva 04:30, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Master of magic suddenly good? 98.207.35.105 06:50, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Uh, what part of "not counting buffs" do you not get?Crimmastermind 07:44, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Actually, if you have at least rank 9 in 4 attributes (with one of them Energy Storage) while not enchanted with Master of Magic, that skill can then be used to increase elemental attribute ranks to 12 (or higher if using runes) and you still benefit from this flux. --Silver Edge 08:46, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Anyone like to test if "Wail of Doom" or "Atrophy" affects the flux boon (such as the -20%nrg, -25%CT)? -Wrei110.175.241.56 08:55, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Why don't YOU do that? Yoshida Keiji talk 09:10, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I would IF I could get my guildies to co-operate (on the rare occasion I find one online), but rather than waiting for ME, would anyone else be so proactive as to test first? On another note, the -25%CT effect does not seem to stack on other sources. No affect on the traps whilst I had Trapper's Speed on. Further testing is welcome, trolling *cough*Yoshida*cough* is ignored. edit: Forgot to mention that the -20%nrg does stack with other energy reduction sources (e.g expertise) -Wrei110.175.241.56 10:04, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

No, I meant: not hard to find by yourself. This is also my IGN, pm me and we find out together. Yoshida Keiji talk 10:11, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree with SilverEdge. First thing I thought when reading the effect of this flux, was Elementalist, and adding Prismatic Insignias. It's pretty much targeting the Elementalist profession this month, in my opinion. Gaudy Gourd God 13:15, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

In my opinion this is just for spellcasters to use. The usual... Silvajef 10:22, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

11+1+2 8+1 8+1 9 split means that anyone that regularly specs 3 atts (e.g. dervs, rangers) can spec a 4th just for the purposes of benefiting from the flux. They don't get the faster activation time, but the damage and energy savings is still nice. — Raine Valen 10:58, 3 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Well i tryed the flux today and with my char (W/N), and with all the beneficts that the flux provide the only that was usefull for me was the energy reduction in skills (2 energy max in my build). Even with the plus 15% damage i could inflict, the damage output is still lower than with investment in attribute points. As i said above this flux is usefull for those professions who use spells. Silvajef 11:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

W/N is terrible; your opinion is invalid. — Raine Valen 12:51, 5 Aug 2012 (UTC)

W/N can work, try combining 100b with Barbs (works with VoSt), it can produce quite a nice damage output. Mark of Fury combined with Body Blow also works quite nicely. Another option but one i don't advice is Headbutt combined with Plague Touch, very heavy on your energy and difficult to play, even with the flux. You just have to know wich skills go together, some work others don't, but calling it terrible i highly disagree with. Da Mystic Reaper 13:03, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Those are all rubbish for PvP. — Raine Valen 13:27, 5 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Let people judge that for themselves instead of calling it rubbish and an argument invalid because you don't like it yourself. The necromancer has plenty of skills that can support the martial classes, even for PvP. It isn't he first time you don't show respect to other people's opinions of wich skills (or flux) they like and don't like and find useful and what not. My advice is to change that side of yours. Da Mystic Reaper 16:56, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Da Mystic Reaper. --Combatter 18:06, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Let me also desagree with Raine Valen. First of all when you make a build you must know what you will need when you get into action. I tried the flux in the Jade Quarry and many cappers there are Necro Bombers. When i made my build my objective was to prevent Necro bombers to cap a shrine, and for that the necromancers have a skill that remove a lots of enchantments. I can say that i had good sucess preventing that, so a char W/N isn´t bad. All depends in what you want to do when you play and where you play. Thanks for the tips Da Mystic Reaper. Silvajef 18:14, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

enchant removal is the only good thing about W/N in JQ, and has zero to do with the flux85.178.237.163 20:51, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Raine's correct, all those options are terrible.--Relyk 20:55, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Enchant removal is not the only good thing about W/N in JQ. Hundred blades with mark of pain can kill the rangers npc quickly. But talking about skills or if W/N is good for something is not the important. We are talking about the flux. I agree when 85.178.237.163 says: "has zero to do with the flux". That is what i´m saying since the begining. This flux works to help spellcasters. Thanks for the reply. Silvajef 22:01, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

You claimed the flux was only good for spellcasters, which Raine corrected you on. Then you provided the W/N as a possibility for the flux, which is a very poor example. That was all in the context of the flux; as it was in response to Raine's statement about melee, I don't see how that's not relevant. The flux is just as advantageous for melee classes as it is for spellcasters.--Relyk 22:55, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

I see your point. But think about this. This flux gives adrenaline cost reduction? Make melee attacks hit 25% faster? (i think that interrupts could benefict from reduction skill activation time but its diferent 25% in 1/4 sec than 25% of 2 or 3 seconds to launch a spell. Who got spells that cost 10 and 15 energy and can get the most benefict from 20% energy reduction cost? Another thing is when i say spellcasters i´m talking about all the professions that use spells (enchant, exes). Derwish could use this flux also as well. Rangers also could use the reduced skills activation time. But for me that dont usualy use any spells its almost useless. That is my opinion with the Character i use. I only dont agree with Raine when he said "W/N is terrible; your opinion is invalid". All opinions are valid and W/N is not bad. Thanks for the reply anyway. Best regards. Silvajef 08:57, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Here's why W/N is terrible:

1. Warriors have two pips of energy regeneration. That means that, in order to accommodate your necro skill usage, you're either (1) not using Frenzy (so using a sub-par-for-swords IAS like Flail), (2) not using Bull's, or (3) not using a staple sword skill like Savage.
2. Sword templates don't have enough room for necro stuff. In order to pack both Barbs/Mark of Pain and an enchant removal (the purpose of the build, no?) in addition to Bull's (required to kill the monk that's healing the rangers), Sever (required for Gash), Gash (required to kill things), S&M (why would you use hundred blades without this?), Frenzy, Rush, and Hundred Blades, you'd need 9 skill slots; this means that either your bar is crippled or you're not packing the skills you're using as examples.
3. Barbs takes a second and a half to cast; MoP takes 30 seconds to recharge. That means that you're either horribly predictable, or using 6 skills for most of the game.
4. Even with all tat aside, it's still straight-up worse than the alternatives. Why not just run a caster?

Seriously, a derv with Shatter Enchant would be better. — Raine Valen 3:55, 7 Aug 2012 (UTC)

I´m not going to create a derv character just to use the flux. I have to use my own char and i like to play with it. The build i use in JQ is Enraging Charge, Flail, Hundred Blades, Hamstring, Mark of Pain, Rend Enchantments, I Will Avenge You, and i still have one slot to take another skill. Could be Sun and Moon Slash, Plague Touch, barbs or Savage Slash. Of Course I dont take all the skills you said. Hamstring is usefull to criplle the turtles or juggernauts. Rend Enchantments is usefull to strip necro bombers and Hundred Blades with Mark of Pain is usefull to kill rangers npc(works even better than Hundred Blades and Sun and Moon Slash, but with the three skills works great even with a monk healing them). I Could use the Savage Slash to interrupt RoJ. Of course i dont do that all that things at the same time. I must see what i could do with the energy i have at the moment. But you will see that i can do all i said above with my skill bar. I´m not saying that your opinion is bad. But i dont agree with it at all points. W/N can do many things but not in all pvp. but in this case is not bad. I cannot cap shrines with this build but that is because my primary profession is warrior, not because the second is a necro. A/N are good cappers there but they also have limitations in other pvp areas. The builds are made for each map and objective. As you said above "Why not just run a caster". With that statment you are agree with me when i said that this flux works to help casters. Using a build with spells and enchantments i also become a caster. Thanks for the reply. Silvajef 11:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Does it sometimes feel like you're slamming your head against a brick wall, Raine? 67.212.122.251 18:39, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

i lol'd super hard at this entire section. damn raine, you have the patience of a saint. -Auron 11:10, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Build making

Does the effect of this flux even justify the spread of the attribute points? I find it very unlikely any build with an investment of 9-10 will be effective due due to lack of power of the effects that the skills have. Even the effect of this flux would not be able to compensate it. Da Mystic Reaper 11:11, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Personally its kinda fun tweaking my trapper build for my daily zkey farming to make the most of the new flux (especially chain combo). But I guess the builds that might benefit the most are ones not focused on damage (since +15%dmg barely recompensates dmg of a 13 attribute rank from default 16, assuming use of Superior rune on main attribute with 9/9/9/9 split) but spammable utility (conditions or non-dmg hexes like diversion) or skills with already rather low power progression per attribute rank. Another scenario is 11/9/8/8 split with main bosted to 15 with Sup Runes and 2 minor runes to boast 8s to 9s. Power of 15 attribute rank on the main is little loss from default 16 max compared to +15% dmg but skills from other attributes will have to be utility rather than more dmg boast. To use a build focused on variety rather than power is unorthodoxed though so most won't bother. But Interrupt mesmers will have a field day this month I'm predicting. -Wrei110.175.241.56 13:05, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps Hamstorm may actually be a viable build with this flux :P Donlik 01:27, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

On an ele using Master of Magic or Elemental Attunement afterwards who knows it just might be possible. Da Mystic Reaper 11:30, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

---

I dont get it why it doesnt work on my char. I have 11+1+1 domination, 8+1 fast casting, 8+1 inspiration and 9 in tactics (Me/W). But when I use disciplined stance, my energy goes from 42 to 37. O_o--95.176.130.251 11:21, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Try again and this time note the environment (like what sort of instance: GvG? Isle of Nameless (PvP) etc.). Also repeat with other skills of same type so determine possible bug or just human error. -Wrei110.175.241.56 13:05, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I tried it in RA. Disciplined stance take 5e, but waster's demise damage is bigger, which means flux is working on it. Is it possible to be a bug just with stances?--95.176.130.251 13:55, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

it's before runes added, so 2 of your attributes are on 8. Spark-TBa 06:56, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect. Runes can be used to achieve the minimum of rank 9 required to benefit from this Flux. See #Effects and Jack of All Trades#Notes. --Silver Edge 07:11, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Finally a flux monks can use :D

This flux is pretty great for heal monks, who can easily meet the attribute requirements. Prot monks can't spec into it unfortunately, but now heal monks can camp shield set effectively :D User:YoUrMoM

I'm not sure, I'd kinda' want a high Healing or Protection prayers monk @ ~14 or so. But nah this flux may bring about new types of playstyles. 72.72.49.246 22:12, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

But only invest points into a shield for a questionable buff, i don't know if that is a wise thing for a monk to do. Well so far almost all of the fluxes have been based to change the offensive play rather than support. You can't really blame it either since the majority of the players and the teams are offensive players. Da Mystic Reaper 22:49, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

This effect is so good that it's worthwhile to invest into attributes that you're not even using for the flux benefits. Getting a specced shield just sweetens the deal. — Raine Valen 3:07, 4 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, gues i'll have to try it out once. Da Mystic Reaper 11:01, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Spec 11+1+1 heal, 8+1 prot, 8+1 devine, 9 tactics, win games :) User:YoUrMoM

Nerfed

Well, I don't think this flux will apply to many people considering the massive health deduction that would result from the mandatory major runes.--68.202.46.190 02:21, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Unless my math is wrong you only need minor runs to bring 4 attributes up from 9 to 10. you need major runes if you are trying to get out of range of weakness debuffing you. I think it would just be easier to bring along some condition removal than use major personally.--Jarad 04:32, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

From article: "Your attributes must be 10 ranks or more in an outpost before zoning into an instance to benefit from this Flux. [...] Weakness and other effects that lower attributes count as buffs for the purposes of this Flux." Weakness doesn't affect the Flux. --Silver Edge 05:12, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

No flux change has ever disappointed me more than this BS......I dare anyone to say otherwise.-Wrei110.175.241.56 07:50, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Well look on the bright side, with the flux as it was another invoke team probably would've won the next mAT too. It's sad to see GvG come to the sorry state it's in now. 08:43, 14 August 2012 (UTC) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Ox rider (talk).

I wonder why they even bothered nerfing it since a flux that has 2 weeks left. Besides fluxes only last for a month and are meant to change the play of PvPers. TBH i could hardly believe a large spread with minimal flexibility in the spread was worth the effect but i managed to make some fun and effective builds, but they had 0 flexibility left for their attribute points. With the 10-10-10-10 setting it can be achieved but now you seriously have to outweight what will be more effective now, a flux build or your casual build, in most of the cases for this flux i fear it will be the latter. Da Mystic Reaper 11:44, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Wow were people actually abusing this so much that it needed to be nerfed? I find it hard to believe that it gives such a great advantage that won't be easily countered if it becomes common enough. Why not let the few who bothered with the flux have their fun for another 2 weeks? 14.192.236.105 14:58, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Uh, every caster high-end PvP ran Flux attributes with the occasional exception of monks. Like, all of them. Seriously. — Raine Valen 21:05, 14 Aug 2012 (UTC)

Also, the nerf puts caster damage much more in-line with normal caster damage (minus activation time): previously, a caster, say an ele, would spec 14 (12+1+1) points in an attribute; from 14 points down to 11 points (9+1+1) generates damage levels equivalent to somewhere between 13 and 14 points, after flux's +15%.
For comparison:

• Mind Blast at rank 11 with flux atts deals 55 damage, compared with 54 at 13 and 57 at 14.
• Rodgort's Invocation deals 106 damage, which is the same as at 13 fire. The burning duration drops by a second, though, which shaves off another 14 damage.

• Chain Lightning becomes identical, damagewise, to a 13-Air Chain Lightning.
• Blinding Flash loses a whopping one second of duration.

• Stone Sheath loses 2 seconds of duration, 6 points of armor, 2 seconds of initial weakness, and deals the same damage as it would at rank 13.
• Stoning deals more damage than at rank 14.
• Obsidian Flame deals a bit more damage than at rank 13.
• Ward Against Foes and Grasping Earth each lose a couple of seconds duration.

• Energy Surge causes a point fewer of energy loss, but deals a couple points more damage than the same skill at rank 14.
• Power Block removes someone from the game for 2 seconds fewer.
• Power Leak destroys 3 fewer points of energy.
• Diversion and Shame are still fucking Diversion and Shame.

The other drawbacks include the pain-in-the-ass that it becomes to run secondary atts with reasonable specs (at 9/9/9/9, it was easy to spec 9 un-runed points into a secondary att. 10, not so much). Also, for builds that traditionally use two atts, they'll have to change some runes.
All-in-all, though, I think it's pretty reasonable. — Raine Valen 21:44, 14 Aug 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) "I wonder why they even bothered nerfing it since a flux that has 2 weeks left." "Wow were people actually abusing this so much that it needed to be nerfed?" See User:Robert Gee/Journal#August 15, 2012 – Flux Changes for the reasoning behind the nerf. --Silver Edge 05:39, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Sentinel´s Insignia for warrior

With the current changes to the flux the warrior cant use the Sentinel´s Insignia, wich leaves him with less 20 elemental armour. I belive that others professions dont have this problem with their runes or insignias. Perhaps fix this in the future? Silvajef 23:13, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

No longer 4 attributes?

As of June 2014 it seems like it requires all attributes to be in the range not just four. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Targetdrone (talk).

Yes, it's no longer four attributes. I've updated the page. --Silver Edge 09:36, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

"Not including buffs"

I can't get this to trigger when I use runes to push skills outside the range. I've tried 9 Healing prayers, nothing but patient on my bar. When I enter with +3 headgear equipped it doesn't work, otherwise it does? Loggy (talk) 18:34, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

That's because attribute runes and the +1 attribute rank from headgear aren't considered buffs for this Flux (as noted on the article). Basically, you need to have ranks 0 or 8-11 before you enter a match or Isle of the Nameless (PvP) (i.e. while in the outpost). You entered with 12 Healing Prayers, which is why it didn't work. The only method to have rank 12 or higher and still benefit from this Flux is by using skills that increase your attribute rank(s). --Silver Edge 08:33, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

I see that now, just my poor sleepy head got confused yesterday trying to handle all the negatives: The flux does not include buffs, and runes are not considered buffs by the flux... Thanks, anyhow! Loggy (talk) 13:50, 10 June 2014 (UTC)