Talk:Order of damage modifiers

Still missing:

(Feel free to remove these as they are discovered)

• Spirit Bond (goes somewhere between Frenzy group and Life Bond group, non inclusive)
• Siphon Strength (probably goes with linear nonelemental buffs)
• "There's Nothing to Fear!"
• Armor of Unfeeling
• Armor of Sanctity
• Knight's Insignia
• Rune of Superior Absorption

~Shard 11:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

For people wanting to test this, what method / system did you use to get these results? --JonTheMon 14:32, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Deductive logic and the scientific method. ~Shard 01:35, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Mark of Protection triggers before Prot Spirit, tested against Aatxes in UW. --216.241.108.106 01:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

It may be the case that many of these groups are handled by what order they were applied in, while some do not. Test PS vs MoP putting PS up first, then switch them and see if anything changes. ~Shard 06:01, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Doesn't make a difference. I had to take Spirit Bond to stay alive even when MoP was up. --216.241.108.106 23:30, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

I thought you were talking about prot spirit. If MoP triggers before prot spirit, your health would go up if both were on you...how is that a problem? I'll test both again. ~Shard 00:10, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I was. MoP triggered before Prot Spirit, which means it healed me for sixty then PS reduced the overflow damage to thirty-five instead of PS reducing it to thirty-five and MoP healing me for sixty, so I took SB. --216.241.108.106 00:13, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I just tested a few things. It seems the order of application only counts when the effects are initially applied, not if they're covered by a newer version, so if you MoP then PS before either are up, MoP does its thing first, even if you recast it over itself. I'll test the whole list in backwards order and see where I get different results. ~Shard 00:21, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Anybody know where the Lightbringer effect goes in this list? Either the +damage effect or the damage reduction one. I would imagine the reduction falls in with Stoneflesh Aura while the bonus goes with Intensity and the others, but I just wanted to be sure. --Jette 04:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Armor of Salvation is still missing. Mist Y (talk) 11:27, 30 September 2019 (UTC)

Shields and Frenzy

I'm not convinced Shield inscriptions apply after Frenzy.

Example: pre-searing warrior, with Serrated Shield (-2 damage while in stance) and no other miscellaneous mods. Normally, I take 2 damage on a hit from (say) a bear. Entering Frenzy, I take zero damage. Which suggests that the math goes (2 -2) x 2 = 0, not 2x2 - 2 = 2. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Nom (talk).

While I believe you, I tested it with spells, which do constant damage. You tested it with attacks, which have random damage. My results are better. It may be that shields with built-in inscriptions (like those found in presearing) apply first. Much of the differences between items from the old system and items from the new system are unknown. ~Shard 01:40, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I have the same results for the serrated shield in presearing. Maybe you could test this with a Candy Cane Sword? Best weapon ever for testing physical damage. StatMan 19:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I'd do it myself, but I has no candy.  :( If somebody else does, though, just use one of those -2/+45 shields bad warriors used to really love, and do a scrimmage. --Jette 19:09, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I tested the physical damage mods with someone daggering me with 0 dagger mastery. I consistently took 0 damage while the -2 was activated, and consistently took 1 damage when the condition was not met. It might just be that inscriptions and built-in mods work differently. ~Shard 06:07, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Updating this page

Normally, Assume Good Faith guidelines apply to articles. Should some articles follow a different standard? This one is based on substantive research and experimentation. Since it's not possible to determine the order of modifiers without repeat trials, should we ask that contributors post their methodology along with their changes?  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 10:34, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Both the Shelter and Union pages claim that their effects are applied in the order they're created, but this page indicates that Shelter is applied before Union. If the listings here are based on substantive research and experimentation, should the Shelter and Union pages be updated? 58.169.185.3 09:31, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

In this case, the more recent testing seems more reliable. User:Hong didn't post specific methodology, but his testing has historically produced very accurate results. Also, since no one replied to my original post for nearly a year, I think we can say that the (current) consensus is against treating this article as any more valid than any other.

It might be that the order listed in this article needs to be re-validated: it hasn't been substantially changed, even though some of the skills listed have changed in functionality. (It might also be the case that my original post above overstated the substantialness of the existing research.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 10:18, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Defiant was Xinrae

I noticed that Xinrae's Weapon has a unqiue position on the chart, but not Defiant was Xinrae. This stands out to me, Xinrae's Weapon's unique placement is probably due to the unique 5% max damage. DwX Also has a unique percent, and therefore I find it likely that it occupies a separate position. 104.0.42.202 00:15, 2 October 2017 (UTC)