Talk:Minion

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We need some screenshots or renders of the various types of minion there are ;) --Gummy Joe 21:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I've posted links to minion pages, and those minion pages that are as of yet unstarted I have taken the liberty to start. - - Arkhar 02:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Contents 1 Minion stats research 2 Minion AI 3 Why they arn't listed as allies 4 Degeneration corrections 5 Minion Absorption 6 Critical Hit 7 Just went through the articles, quick note and a question 8 Decomposition rate 9 Parties! 10 Can someone explain this to me?

[edit] Minion stats research

Minion damage vs. AL 60 target dummies
Level	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19
Bone Minion	0	1	1-2	1-3	2-4	2-6	3-8	3-9	4-11	5-12	6-15	6-16	7-19	7-21	8-23	-	-	-	-	-
Jagged Horror	0	1	1-2	2-3	2-5	3-5	4-6	4-8	4-9	6-11	6-17	7-18	8-22	9-25	10-27	11-32	13-35	14-41	-	-
Shambling Horror	-	1	1-2	1-4	2-4	3-5	3-6	4-11	5-12	-	6-17	7-20	8-21	10-26	11-29	12-33	13-36	15-39	16-46	18-51
Vampiric Horror	-	1-2	1-3	2-5	3-7	3-9	4-8	5-10	7-14	-	8-23	9-24	11-26	11-30	12-31	13-35	15-42	15-44	17-47	19-50
Bone Horror	-	1	1-2	2-5	3-7	3-9	4-11	5-12	6-15	-	8-22	9-23	10-27	11-31	12-34	13-35	13-41	15-43	17-49	18-52
Bone Fiend	-	1	1-3	2-4	3-5	3-9	4-11	5-13	6-16	-	8-22	9-24	10-28	11-30	12-35	13-36	14-41	15-44	17-49	18-51
Flesh Golem	-	-	-	5-10	8-16	-	10-19	12-27	-	16-34	19-42	-	23-46	26-50	-	32-69	34-74	-	39-89	41-96
Level	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Flesh Golem	-	50-105	53-110	-	54-124	56-126	58-131	-	63-144	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

Minion	Levels	Rank 16 Deathly Swarm damage (base damage 94 cold)	Approximate armor level	Approximate armor formula
Flesh Golem	3, 26	201, 35	16, 117	Level*4.4+3
Bone Horror, Shambling Horror, Vampiric Horror	1, 18	227, 76	9, 72	Level*3.7+5
Jagged Horror	0, 16	244, 86	5, 65	Level*3.75+5
Bone Fiend	1, 18	240, 104	6, 54	Level*2.825+3
Bone Minion	0, 13	261, 135	1, 39	Level*3
Celestial Horror	25	48	99	N/A

I did some extensive minion damage research today, here are the results. -- Gordon Ecker 07:29, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I did more research on damage using Deathly Swarm at rank 16 to determine armor and Taste of Death to determine Health. All minions have level*20+80 Health, and the armor research results are above. -- Gordon Ecker 09:52, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you use logarithms to determine armour in that last part? Because I'm getting 72 armor for a level 18 Horror, which is also the accepted value, via the following calculation: Damage Modifier = 2^((60-AL)/40); 76/94 = 2^((60-X)/40); .8085=2^((60-X)/40); log0.8085=((60-X)/40)log2; 40(log0.8085)/log2=60-X; -12.27=60-X; X=72.27; AL = ~72 I haven't checked the other values, but this may cause slight changes here and there in your results. -- Arkhar 22:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I just used a spreadsheet to generate a table of damage multipliers and picked whichever armor value most closely matched the data. -- Gordon Ecker 04:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

73 may have been the closest arithmetically or geometrically, but in this case we want the number that is exponentially closest, which I believe to be 72. In any case, the number you got was close enough to allow you to generate what appears to be a sound formula, so the number is accurate enough. -- Arkhar 05:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I've recalculated the armor starting with the base damage and estimated armor, you're right about level 18 horrors having 72 armor, the others match my previous calculations. The damage vs. a level 16 Jagged Horror was a transcription error, I've added the correct value. -- Gordon Ecker 05:43, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Great, thanks. -- Arkhar 00:34, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Minion AI

I don't mean to whine, but isn't it about time minions got an AI improvement? Sure, they're not supposed to be little Einsteins, but even your average housefly understands that to reach something on a cliff top, you don't stand at the base and stare up at it. I'm a minion master, and I just can't help feeling like this is getting neglected amid the waves of skill updates which, incidentally, don't seem to be doing much good.69.40.116.142 22:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. — ク Eloc 貢 23:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Sooo ture yo loose your whole army until you go up thier kill them all and than they will realise "OMG THEIR DEAD ok back to following the master" but hey if you were undead would you really bother to go up that hill or around that obsticle The Golden Arrow 18:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

If you can make them walk around, you can make them walk around a tree. -- Arkhar 04:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

They don't exactly have brains, do they?68.78.136.130 22:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

If I'm ever attacked by zombies, I'll be sure to walk to the top of a hill. --RoyHarmon 19:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be reasonable for minions to respond to their controller's calls. -- Gordon Ecker 01:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

You can imagine the minion factory teams in HA being able to get all their minions on one target then remove soa form it and it just kersplode? it's bad to make them follow commands. 90.206.224.62 22:57, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why they arn't listed as allies

Since during the Gyala hatchery mission, the dead allies (young turtles) are ressurected after the cutscene, it would seem that dead allies are also ressurected. Could this be a reason why minions arnt listed as allies, coupled with the fact that it would be a long list and constant updating? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.78.136.130 (talk).

I agree on the 'long list' part, but the constant updating already takes place. But actually, I don't know any reason why they don't show up on the list as allies. (Besides, you can only resurrect those with a corpse, right?) File:User Horsedrowner avatar.jpg horsedrowner 06:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

ya is there a way to make their health show up or something, i hate that if i want to put a spell on them i have to target them manualy --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.236.185.58 (talk).

Only by holding the mouse over them. -- Gordon Ecker 02:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Degeneration corrections

I did some testing. Both the 20 degeneration cap and the 84 second claims are bogus. Natural degeneration kills low level minions faster than high level minions, and appears to be uncapped. I stacked over 30 regeneration on an old minion with no effect on the rate of health loss. -- Gordon Ecker 08:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I left a Rt/N Minion Bomber alone with lvl 10 bone horrors for 4 hours. When I left it was taking 12 seconds for the minions to degen to 50% Health. When I came back after 4 hours it was STILL taking 12 seconds to degen to 50% health. I'm pretty sure there is a cap on natural minion degen, it is not limitless. Druid 09:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Would it not be best to assume the degen is handled in the same way as players degen, the regen you apply is taken into account first and then the degen, which is capped at -10 pips if i remember correctly, in that case if you stack 30 regen on a minion all the degen would appear as still -10 if the developers are smart and have set degen to some crazy number like 999 or something. because 30 - 999 is -969, therefore as only a max of -10 can appear -10 is what appears?--Whisperwind 12:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I meant by uncapped. Minions can accumulate more than 10 pips of degeneration, but, like everything else in the game, they can't be affected by more than 10 pips of net degeneration. -- Gordon Ecker 02:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Minion Absorption

Is there such a thing? and where could I find out more information about it, I know a few people use minions to combat the mursaats attacks but I was wondering if it is a minion specific ability or just the size of the part divides the damage? --Whisperwind 11:12, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Critical Hit

Can minions critical hit? I'm just wondering if "Go for the Eyes!" will work with minions. Blood Red Giant 09:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

GftE does work with minions, and they can critical hit. Don't expect a massive damage boost, though, as their crits don't automatically deal max damage. Vili 10:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you. I'm using it in a new build of mine, and since my new build involves 47 minions.... lol Blood Red Giant 10:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Just went through the articles, quick note and a question

Pending the page, the notes vary. For Bone Horror and Bone Fiend: Behavior Like all minions, they will attack any enemy without command, and it is impossible to disengage them. ---

Bone Minion has no behavior. ---

For Vampiric Horror: Behavior Like all minions, Vampiric Horrors will attack any enemy that comes within a certain distance of them. If you attack an enemy outside of the Vampiric Horrors' Aggro range, they will move to attack them, unless you attack with a spell, in which case they will stay where they are. They will also not move when being hit by AoE spells. ---

For Shambling Horror and Jagged Horrors, there is no behavior on how they attack or target. ---

And no behavior on the Celestial Horror and Flesh Golem. ---

Now back to the subject I really came here for. I've been doing a lot of Alliance Battling, and I've been able to keep Warriors off me. But every time there is a Minion Master around me, I'm getting knocked down by the Minions, speaking no one else is around and able to knock me down. Necromancer runs off, and I'm usually solo capping because the others are dead. And the Minion Master didn't have Flesh Golem, but instead Aura of the Lich. Was there an update, or is something wrong?--iRathur 17:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The Kurzick Army Elementalists and Luxon Army Elementalists have Teinai's Wind and Lightning Surge, those skills could be knocking you down. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I haven't Alliance Battled again recently, but I do know the Minion Master was outside of the mob in the middle of the map trying to cap a Shrine I had just captured. I don't know what the Kurzick Maps are called, much less describe properly. It was at the shrine with Rangers near the Luxon Base with a small stream leading down the left side of the map. So I highly doubt it was a Kurzick Elementalist.--iRathur 02:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

If it was before the December 11th update, you could've been knocked down by Weaken Knees. It also could've been caused by Gale, it doesn't deal any damage or inflict any persistent debuff, so it won't show up in the Damage Monitor or Effects Monitor. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

That's probably it, Gale. N/E is quite common now. Thanks!--iRathur 19:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Decomposition rate

Given that "At level 18, Bone Fiends live for 1 minute 24 seconds", I wonder if we can figure out the interval between degeneration increases. should be the equation needed, with being the maximum degeneration reached and being the time spent at each level of degeneration. ··· cedave 15:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Parties!

Should a note be on the page that minions are in their own party? I don't remember if each minion master has their own party or not (I think they do). The way to test is get two minion masters and use Seed of Life on a minion: if it heals both MM's minions, then they are not split. <>Sparky, the Tainted 14:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Your logic's a bit faulty. Seed of Life heals your party members when the minion (ally) is hit. However, I think I know what you mean, and here's my best explanation: Minions are collectively treated as allies and one person using Blood of the Master will heal all allied minions within radar range. ··· Danny Pew Pew 16:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Members of the same party seem to share aggro with eachother, if one monster in a group aggroes, the entire group aggroes, and if one party member attacks or gets attacked by a monster, all the heroes and henchmen will react to it. Minions seem to aggro independently. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Can someone explain this to me?

...'although they are affected by the 10 net degeneration cap, their "base" degeneration appears to be able to increase indefinitely.
That to me, reads a bit contradictory. My comprehension might be off but it looks like it says "It doesn't go past the 10 degeneration, but it does... indefinitely. I'm confused. I want to know exactly what makes them degenerate faster. The longer they live, or the more you have?-- anguard 16:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I think it means externally inflicted degeneration (e.g. Life Transfer, bleeding) is capped at 10 pips but their own natural degeneration (caused by the length of their existence) has no cap. --mira castillo 16:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, okay. Thanks.-- anguard 16:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The game limits the amount of regeneration / degeneration to 10 pips. However, you can have more regen/degen than that, it just won't be expressed. This explains it better than I can <_<

"Health regeneration will stack to exceed ±10 pips, but the effect will be no greater than that of ±10 pips. For instance, if a target has -20 health regeneration they will lose health at the rate of -10 pips, and if they use a +10 Healing Breeze, they will still lose health at the rate of -10 pips."

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Health#Health_regeneration.2Fdegeneration

Also, the longer a minion lives, the more degeneration it has. The amount of minions you control has no effect on the degeneration of a minion. -- Chrono (talk) 16:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

That stuff I already knew, it was just the Minions I didn't get.-- anguard 16:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

But that's what the section you quoted is talking about... It's saying if you kept a minion alive for several hours (or some long amount of time) the minions would have a huge "base" degeneration (-50? -200? who knows), but that they are still affected by the -10 degen cap. Their degeneration doesn't function any different than any other characters / monsters / etc. -- Chrono (talk) 17:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

it would be interesting to figure out if there is a maximum degeneration cap. I'd assume that degeneration/regeneration is stored in a single byte, and likely 0 is 0, 1-127 or so is health gain, and 255-128 is health loss. If anyone wants to sit around with a minion for a couple hours with only direct healing and see if it ever stops losing health, that would tell us right away whether or not ANet included a solid degeneration cap, provided I'm correct about the regen/degen structure. This could also be used to figure out the period of time between degen "steps" using a modified version of the formula a few sections up. ··· Danny Pew Pew 17:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

All the same, Chrome, my confusion is quelled and my question was answered.-- anguard 22:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)