Talk:The Underworld/Archive 2

More in Planning

Are there places like these planned or in planning for Dwayna, Lyssa, or Melandru? ‽-(eronth) I give up 22:16, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

That would be nice, but probably not. These areas exist long enough and making one consumes a lot of time. -- Karasu (talk) 23:40, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Not Explorable Area?

Isn't this area a mission not an explorable area? You fail just like you do in other missions if your party wipes, unlike explorable areas. 58.106.140.127 12:46, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a lot like missions in some respects, but there's no "enter mission" button so I guess everybody considers it explorable. --Jette 17:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

There are other explorable areas where you will get sent to the outpost if you die, try killing yourself in HoM and see what happens.--Orry 15:18, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Quest completion order

We are planning to do a clear with my guildies in some days time, but we cannot really sort out all the quest information here on the wiki. For example it says, that there are quests, you shouldn't take together because tyou wont be able to complete them. It also says, that for example before taking a quest (dunno the title) it is advised to free the reapers of the ice wastes/bone pits, etc. We did a clear once, freed reapers before doing any actual quests, but we got wiped before we could get to the last reaper. I wonder if there is a suggested order in which one should complete the quests to avoid any harmful "side effects". I would be thankful for any info

If you're taking cons and retarded PvE skills, run around killing everything you see because you can't die anyway. If you're going to do it the right way, which is with no PvE skills, then the safest order is probably... hmm.

Kill all the aatxe in the first rooms, then accept the quest from the lost soul. Kill all the grasping darknesses, then head into the northeast chamber with the statue of grenth and kill everything but the terrowebs, then head west towards the village and kill everything along the way. Then head back to the statue, whack the spiders, and accept the restore quest. Then head back to the village (in case you haven't already guessed, this place has a lot of pointless running back and forth -- the other underworld is more fun, tbh), kill everything you see there (including one or two of the drake patrols -- don't bother with all of them, though, they don't drop anything good or pose any threat), accept quest, kill stupid level 15's that somehow last longer than most level 20 monsters. Accept reward, talk to reaper to teleport back to labyrinth, accept escort quest, keep souls alive, run through hordes of migraine mesmers. Not difficult, just tedious. Once you finish that one, teleport to the labyrinth (again), head east and kill anything you see on the way. If you reach smites, you went the right way, if you see behemoths, you're going the wrong way. Kill all the smites and coldfires, then kill the spiders, then talk to the reaper. All of you should head down to the low, central area except one, who should stand by the reaper. Have that one take the quest, then enjoy fighting eighteen spiders. And yes, it's eighteen -- they come in three spawns. The quest is a liar, it tells you it's over before it is. Until you've killed 18 you're not done. Then teleport back to the labyrinth, and head south towards the twin serpent mountains. It's more annoying than hard, but when you pick up your drops watch out for traps. Oh, and the charged blacknesses can hurt. I suggest protective spirit. Wander around there until you reach the mountaintop, with more spiders. Kill the behemoths, then the spiders, and make sure that the reaper doesn't die from traps. Then accept his quest, head down the mountain a little, and wait for the bone puppy to get to you. Kill it, then wait for more spiders (smaller than usual this time). Accept quest reward, then find your way out of the mountains. When you see a banished dream rider and wailing lords, you're in the right spot. Kill the wailing lords first, then the banished dream rider. When the rider dies, three mindblade spectres will spawn. They have a stupid amount of health and are resistant to just about everything -- I hope you brought spellbreaker or some anti-interrupts or something. After you kill the first three, six will spawn. Then after those die, another nine will spawn. Yes, all of the riders do this. You're in for a long, boring as all hell trip. Make your way towards the statue, killing dream riders and their droves of mindblades along the way. Eventually, you'll reach the statue. Avoid the terrorwebs, instead sneaking around to kill the banished ream riders. The ones that come in pairs with a single wailing lord don't spawn mindblades, so kill those first. Then kill the one that will spawn mindblades, and try to avoid aggroing the spiders. If you do aggro them, kill them immediately, migraine + nukes = pain. If the reaper spawns, just protect him. If anything he'll help out with maelstrom and whatever. After you get past the statue (don't take the quest just yet), kill another dream rider, then come back, split your party in two, and get ready for the hardest quest. You have to split into two parties at once, each of which will be fighting six terrorwebs and two giant dream riders, who carry diversion and power block instead of the usual dream rider skills. THey also have, like, 3,000 health so don't bother trying to kill them first. Kill the spiders. My advice is to take a monk with spellbreaker, blessed aura, and arcane echo so you can do this easily. Have him and a tank (or hard-ass caster) absorb the damage from one side, while the other six party members deal with the other side. Yes, this quest is irritating if you haven't done it before. Once everything attacking you is dead, accept quest reward, then head west (or east? I don't know) towards the terrorweb spawning pits. You'll know you're going the right way if you're pulling your hair out from having to fight another 4 banished dream riders, and see about fifty spiders all in one spot. Hack and slash your way through a hideous throng of spiders and charged blacknesses, then free the reaper (careful, there's no way to distinguish between normal spiders and the ones that spawn the reaper -- if he spawns, just prot him and kill the other spiders). Take his quest, then kill the terrorweb queen. It'll take a while because she's in four wards against harm and has a huge supply of health, but it's not that difficult. After that, teleport back to the chaos plains (don't bother trying to kill the obsidian guardians, they have obsidian flesh with some other survival skills -- takes forever) and head towards the bone pits. It's not a really difficult area, just hack your way through the necromancers and their minions. Be sure to kill them all (don't worry about the chained souls, they auto-res and auto-die), then head up the little cliff to free the reaper. Send seven people back to the bridge, have the last person accept the quest. Kill the various droves of terrorwebs, I think there are nine in total but it might be twelve. Then teleport back to the labyrinth, accepting the last quest (unwanted guests) when you get there. Teleport back to the village/vale, run back towards the labyrinth (bored yet?) and kill any spiders you see but avoid all the bulls. If you aggro a Vengeful Aatxe, it won't die until it's de-aggroed. Which basically means you have to run away, preferably very far. They can't be targeted, or inflicted with conditions, hexes, or anything else at all. Seriously. It's kind of stupid. Anyway, kill the keepers of souls, being sure to teleport and sneak around so you don't aggro any aatxe. If you aggro one near the reaper, make sure to lead it *away* from the reaper, then teleport to another location. Be sure they're far enough away from the reaper that they won't target him. If they lock onto him, you're fucked. Once you're out of their range, they die instantly. Assuming I haven't forgotten something, that finishes the Underworld. Claim your passage scroll/shitty req. 13 gold and wonder why you wasted your night. Seriously, do the other one. Grasps of insanity are cute. --Jette 20:43, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

When you head towards the village, you shouldn't kill the first group of Grasping Darknesses near Mayor Alegheri, because then some of the spirits in the village won't span. This way you can't fail the quest Wrathful Spirits gotten from the Reaper of the Forgotten Vale. AFTER you did the quest, you can kill them.

I got the note from the walkthrough of the quest, but I thought it would fit here to. F.c.Sauer

TL;DR, L2⁋ ~Shard 03:36, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Haha, he thinks you have to know how to play to win UW. –Jette 05:45, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

So....according to Jette, the order is:

• Clear the Chamber
• Restoring Grenth's Monument
• Wrathful Spirits
• Escort of Souls
• Servants of Grenth
• Demon Assassin
• Four Horsemene
• Terrorweb Queen
• Imprisoned Spirits
• Unwanted Guests
• The Nightman Cometh

monsters that no longer spawn

I think we should either remove or in some way mark monsters that no longer spawn from the parent page such as Cursed Dream Riders e.g. we could have Cursed Dream Riders (removed) on that line if we really want to keep them here for legacy reasons. --Falseprophet 21:05, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Bugged

UW is currently bugged atm. The world doesn't have favor and yet you can still jump in via the Voice of Grenth. Has this happened before, or is it a result of the updates? Never noticed anything like this before though.12.6.238.154 03:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Probably related to the quests requiring access to it this event. | 72 {U|T|C} 03:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

new changes?

are there changes to the underworld? the lost soul is placed more to the middle of the chamber, and graspings darknesses spawn when running to the smites. this didn't happen to me before. and i didnt read anything about it in the updates.--Simontjuu 13:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

i noticed that to its weird lol --Nick123 12:17, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

- Your fun and games are over now.. UNLUCKY!

Still works the way it's always worked ;) Your fun and games are still fun and games! T1Cybernetic 20:53, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Aaxtes with enchantments ?

I did my special disney discovery uw tour for some new comers and we witnessed an aaxte with enchantments, is it a bug ? Yseron - 90.29.181.124 13:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

No nightmares use Blood Is Power on them sometimes and its an Enchantment

^ Yep ~~000.00.00.00~~ 20:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

New Enemies

Should we add the new skeletons or wait until Halloween is over? 24.16.96.202 22:54, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

I added them, if anyone disagrees then they can be removed. Reaper of Scythes Talk 00:12, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

OMG Remove them NOW! ....... Jk :p It looks good to me... T1Cybernetic 00:13, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

^^ Reaper of Scythes Talk 00:42, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Anets Customer Service

I suggest A-Net take a long and hard look at their customer service before releasing gw2.

Nobody will buy gw2 if they continue too fuck up EVERYTHING. They destroyed the Heroes Ascent ranking system by allowing Heroes into HA, making free fame, gwen/norgu/dunkoro/livia/talkhora/ogden/master of whispers probablyu each have about 500,000,000 fame from farming random teams.

Many people I used too pvp with quit HA as a result of A-Nets crappy customer service and selling pvp too pve'er (pve'er comes to pvp, but suck so much they cant get faction for skills so they buy the skill pack).

Now this, we do uwsc together, too make some cash, and not only have a-net fucked that up, theyve also made it harder for people too get balanced teams for underworld.

Heres a concept for you anet, nerf 4H in the uw so that balanced teams can actually have a chance, power blocked monk > raped team, attacked from both sides means you must do a 4/4 split and in HM without using dedicated tanks thats impossible too deal with.

Congrats A-Net you just lost a LOT of people who were going too buy gw2. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Reaper94 (talk).

What, while making hundreds more happy by nerfing a long standing complaint?--Unendingfear 15:54, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, ArenaNet's office isn't located inside the underworld :P - J.P.Talk 15:57, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Maybe he thinks they are.--Unendingfear 15:58, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) They probably would have lost more customers by not nerfing the underworld, and who buys skill packs? C4K3 Talk 16:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

UNENDING FEAR - What is it they did that made hundreds more happy? They didn't make UW more friendly for well-rounded teams, and then didn't make it less friendly for Wiki-Way teams. They didn't really make SC take significantly longer for the average SC team and they basically made completing "Servants Of Grenth" all but impossible for the well rounded teams. Which camp did these changes please? What complaint was it that was nerfed? They made no one happy. Its like the way Nintendo handles Mortal Kombat games, instead of blood they use "sweat". That doesn't make gamers who like blood happy and it sure as heck doesn't make parents who don't like violence happy. All they do is fail everyone involved. The Skeletons Of Dhuum seem to me to be the same thing. There is a problem, they don't want to commit the effort necessary to fix it, so they do this............. lamesauce. 75.142.136.4 17:05, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Cry some more, little IP, for your tears feed me. Why don't you hold a cup next to your cheek for me? -- Konig/talk 18:06, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

what a trollish way to respond to trolling | 72 (UTC) 18:27, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

I am not trolling. Its a legit question. What is he talking about? Which "long standing complaint" did this fix? Who is crying.......... Torchlight MMO will be out the same time as GW2.... there are other free options coming too. No stress....... 75.142.136.4 18:50, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

New Monster Skills?

Have the monsters recieved new skills over the newest updates? I took my perma-sin into the area, intending to use a standard A/Me to farm them there, when I was hit by skills such as Bone Spikes which ignored SF. Are those new skills, or have I just been away too long to notice? --Sageofprofession 05:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Yep, new monster were perma-added during halloween quests. Anet clearly stated this is a move against UWSC. M3G 08:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

New Monster Skills?

Have the monsters recieved new skills over the newest updates? I took my perma-sin into the area, intending to use a standard A/Me to farm them there, when I was hit by skills such as Bone Spikes which ignored SF. Are those new skills, or have I just been away too long to notice? --Sageofprofession 05:07, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

They were added with halloween in order to counter permanent shadow form gimmicks. –Jette 08:14, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Are they Still there?

Do the Dryders still pop up after the killing of the slayer? Or in the other quests, like 4H, and wastes? I know they did during Halloween. -RawR 20:42, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

They don't pop up after slayer, anet just added more dryders in with the keepers during Demon Assassin. There are now new Dryders in 4h along with the skeletons, and wastes has a variety of pop ups including skeletons and the new dryders during the quest. 76.103.242.232 07:19, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Impossible

Just FYI, the new UW is nearly impossible for even the best of teams. Specifically, Servants of Grenth is nearly impossible. With the skeles there, bonding, permaing or even the best of tanks can't hold aggro. And since all the spawns are in diffrent loctions, you can't keep things together. With Flurry always active, its like a constant 70 damage per second that you can't ignore. Bone pits is similar, there are additional spawns in the way of the souls, so you can't just clear and hold aggro. You need to kill quickly etc.... Each area in its self is becoming a new elite area, which needs its own 8 party team to clear it that doesn't coorespond with each other.

Those attempting to even do a NM clear. You have been warned, have fun......--68.115.108.135 02:10, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Impossible I can't agree with...... But nearly impossible and totally ridiculous absolutely.......... The addition of skeletons with thier totally unmitigatable damage has a huge impact on good, honest players that just want to party up and play the game legitimately with the primary goals being exploration and enjoyment. It has almost no impact on the kid-way players, who have never even bothered to read the skill descriptions in thier own bar using cookie-cutter wiki builds and consumable to avoid gameplay and open the chest without earning it..... A-net why don't you just put the chest in the first room of the labyrinth where players spawn and make a special key that costs the same as a conset necessary to open it. That would make the cheaters happy because they would get what they want.... total avoidance of gameplay..... and it would make things a lot easier on the people who actually want to play because we would not have to contend with crap like the skeletons of Dhuum and compete with the current 15 minute SpeedClear Ass-way teams squelching off party search. You have NEVER shown any degree of consideration to the people who are more interested in play. You ALWAYS penalize us to keep cheaters in line..... why do you always put gameplay last? Unnacceptable 75.142.136.4 17:57, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

The Rift?

"When the body dies, the spirit will be released into the Rift." - This is written in the article. Did you mean the mists. The river of souls is in the RoT not the Rift and I've seen no association between the Rift and the UW. Where did this come from?--Shai Halud 22:28, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

From The Rift article: Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It sounds like an interplanar airport terminal or perhaps upstream server, so it would make sense it goes through the Rift first. –Jette 01:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

"Completing all quests"

In order to unlock the statue in the Hall of Monuments, do we now need to beat Dhuum in addition to complete the quests ? I'm a bit curious about that... 213.166.221.2 23:20, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, Dhuum now needs to be killed as well. -- Konig/talk 00:26, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

We beat all 10 quests but one jerk went AFK and Dhuum wont become active unless entire party enters the hall. So he screwed the rest of us out of beating the UW. I did get my 100 tots because you only have to talk to Frozenwind to finish "The Waiting Game". Ramei Arashi 05:43, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. ... Guess I'll never get it then, but Dhuum is so awesome I'll have to try XD 213.166.221.2 11:15, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

The Dhuum Patrol!

Hello everyone! :D

I made a little wikiforum for all you out there who want to find people to do UW and kill Dhuum with fast and easy!

Check out The Dhuum Patrol for more info!:D

YOU WILL ALL BE DHUUMED!;DCharocles 23:23, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Imbalanced to the extreme

I understand the desire to remove Perma-SF from UW, but the skeletons just made it impossible for a balanced team to get in there, and only delayed experienced Speed Teams. So now, instead of balanced teams being slower than speed-clears, balanced teams get wiped by party-wide armor ignoring damage, all the while KD'd by Dyders, standing in AoE damage, and speed clear teams just take a little while longer. I know underworld is supposed to be hard, but you should be able to do it with a balanced group with one or two heroes, especially in Normal Mode. My opinion? Instead of Skeleton of Dhuum doing insane amounts of armor ignoring damage, give them a passive skill within earshot, all foes lose their enchantments 50% faster. Bye bye SF teams, hello old fashioned balanced teams. Hell, you could even change the Chained Souls so that instead of Rend Enchantments, it has the passive Tranquility effect on foes within earshot. FleshAndFaith 16:59, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Lol what are you talking about? Skeletons of Dhuum are EASY even in Hard Mode. I've looked at the changes and I know how to set up a balanced group easily - 2 tanks, 2 support, 4 distanced attackers (rangers, crit bow sins, casters, etc.). We just tried it - pwned Servants of Grenth, went to do 4h, but the tank didn't listen and went out ahead and got killed by skeletons (the other side pwned the groups, so it was just the tanks' fault there). Skeletons are only hard when fighting alone against someone with poor self-heal - otherwise they are easy. Oh, and if your team is standing in AoE damage, their idiots - move. lol - thanks for making me laugh. -- Konig/talk 20:03, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Oh, we should have just moved! How silly, it's almost as if I neglected to say we were perpetually KD'd by staggered Meteor Showers from the Dryders! Oh wait... "balanced teams get wiped by party-wide armor ignoring damage, all the while KD'd by Dyders, standing in AoE damage" I did say that! I think maybe somebody is a bit overzealous when it comes to their e-peen and is ready to try and disprove or discredit anything somebody says in regards to areas of the game, that you have (by no mere happenstance, I'm sure) cleared, being imbalanced.

And I stand by my statement. The skeletons that spawn with the waves of Dryders is too much. Instead of trying to kill SF's with armor-ignoring damage, which, in turn, kills balanced groups when combined with KD, Burning, and AoE damage, why can't you just cut them down from the source by cutting their enchantment duration in half? That way, pug groups will find it tough, but possible, to complete UW without some lame gimmick farming build. Less farm, more fun. FleshAndFaith 20:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

FleshAndFaith, I'd like you to know I don't care about e-peen. And it is still possible to get out of Meteor shower unless you have 3 on you that do not damage you simultaneously. I do not find these groups of Dryders and Skeletons hard in any group I do - as long as they know what to do and is placed well. If you are overpowered, you can use your brain to figure out a way around it - and even while still being balanced. -- Konig/talk 21:54, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

My point is this: This mob used to be manageable, but tough. Dryders in those numbers kept a constant stream of meteors pouring down, in staggered locations at staggered times, then added burning and other damage. But we managed to pull through because I, as a monk, was able to get out and heal. Now this mob is impossible for the average pug. Combine this already high damage output with armor ignoring DPS with a very high range of effect, and you've got quite a lot of pressure. More pressure than me and my group could handle, and frankly, we have handled EVERYTHING else in the game together with a balanced group. FleshAndFaith 22:20, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, in a sense. This mob used to be manageable, but tough for some playstyles and incredibly easy for others. Now it is quite difficult for both as I understand it. (I may be very wrong, I have only rarely done any UW.) | 72 (U|T|C) 23:45, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

This particular quest is of the hardest for UW. I'm not saying it should be easier than it has been in the past. Most parties that get past the main corridor fail on this quest, or Four Horsemen. I can appreciate the difficulty, it rewards good teams. But this is harder than it has ever been, and its all because the added damage to take down SF's. I just claimed it was imbalanced because Perma teams can STILL clear the area without too much trouble, and balanced, traditional, true-blue teams get wiped much, much easier. I will say again, I stand by my statement that the addition of these Skeletons hurt balanced parties much MUCH more than Perma teams. FleshAndFaith 00:17, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

LOL. I go in with me and one friend and our heroes, and we can beat all the enemies and all the quests except for 4horsemen and the wastes one. We use our own builds that arent the 'reccomended' PvX builds, and still have no trouble. Hint, to avoid meteor shower, just move. NOT THAT HARD, it shows under your feet for 3 seconds before it hits. The Orlando 00:40, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree with FleshAndFaith. The UW has become a joke since the addition of Dhuum and his minions. Before this change you needed a skilled team, but could take a balanced crew and still complete it. But once the skeleton spawns were added, it became EXTREMELY difficult for even the most skilled balanced teams to complete. Even worse, the changes which were claimed to counter permas and increase the amount of balanced teams had the exact opposite response, increasing the use of permas to the point that the use of 6 perma teams became the standard for UW full clears (see Dayway). While the recent SF nerf may have disposed of Dayway and the use of Sin heavy teams, nothing has been done to make the UW more accessible by those of us who actually use balanced teams. So I ask, with SF nerfed and the reason for the addition of the skeletons (to counter the prior invulnerability of permas) now gone, why in the heck are the skeleton spawns still there? If ANet really wants to make the UW more accessible to balanced teams, then please PLEASE delete the skeleton spawns so that those of us who aren't in leet guilds can actually enjoy the UW again. --J E T 07:51, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

I totally agree, the underworld plus each of the access areas are quickly becoming barren wastelands, From what i can tell even those in leet guilds are struggling to get people interested in the place... T1Cybernetic 11:00, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Maybe that is just the point of an 'elite area'? People who have trouble with those skeletons should not even be going to UW in the first place. Koda Kumi 11:59, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Underworld for balanced teams got completely screwed by the Skeletons. The quest "Servants Of Grenth" has 6 (and sometimes 8) Skeletons using "Flurry Of Splinters" at the same time repeatedly. That would be fine if there was some way to mitigate the damage but it is not technically considered damage or lifestealing so nothing can sap it. That combined with all the Meteor Showers and Starbursts from the 2 dozen or so Terrorwebs that spawn at least twice as fast as they used too, make it too much for a balanced team to contend with. There are other places where the Skeletons make things very difficult (too difficult?) for a well rouinded team, but that quest, whether you try splitting up or taking them all at the spawn point, is just too much for a well rounded team.............even in Normal Mode. If anyone contests this please post a link to the video of your well rounded team successfully passing this quest without using consumables. I would love to see it. Incidently I have been completing the quests in the Underworld for a looooong time. I can remember when I would mention the Spawning Pools or the Chaos Plains in ToA and people would say that no such places existed because no one ever went anywhere except the Labyrinth and the Ice Wastes, and there was no wiki then. I am happy to see thinsg added but why screw blanced teams who are playing the game in order to adjust whatever the current kid-way meta is? This is just yet another example of A-net punishing people who play fairly and for fun in order to spite lamers who buy gold or abuse exploitable skills. This is a big part of the reason the community is what it is. Guild Wars 2 players have already been custom tailored to fit in with Ursan-Logic. I am sure GW2 will sell well tho, after all it is going to be free right? 75.142.136.4 17:58, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

It's easily doable with 2 people and 6 heroes with the proper strategy for the quests. A grail of might against Dhuum so the hero monks(sometimes myself) had more time to react to judgement of Dhuum. I think some dp removal was used to increase health as well and summoning stones just for fun. The following link shows the success of what I think is a balanced team.image

My experience with this area is that people mistakenly think that UW can be run with any old decent, general purpose build, so long as the player is skillful and knows where to stand, what quests to take, what enemies to kill. You can't.

You can't just go in and expect to be able to do Four Horsemen or Servants of Grenth without a proper team setup and plan of attack. You MUST account for those two quests in both planning and team structure. UW does require skill but it requires a combination of skill and build. You need both. Unfortunately, most people are too unwilling to adapt their builds to a coordinated assault and then wonder why they fail when they get to 4H. So you either have enough players in your friend's list/guild who can and will adapt, you speed clear pug, or you don't clear UW. Aevar talk contribs 19:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)