User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Izzy Talk Archive 9

Assassin suggestion

Ohai! I'd like some feedback to some of the suggestions I put up for assassins, I don't mind if I get constructive criticism, just not flat out insults :) I've collected some suggestions that I thought would be good for the assassin profession and mixed some of my own. Basically, the main goal was to pull away from the 1234567 that the sin is atm and to try to put in more skilled play (I don't think any of the suggestions did that but it did the former :P) and more disruptive abilities all the while causing pressure. Es aqui! http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:Ohaider --Ohaider 02:43, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Deadly haste change is not only IMBA but unneccesary. It is suicidal to give assassins there own IAS for PvP let alone in the critical strikes attribute!. Crippling dagger change is awkward... I dont want it as a lead >.> makes it more narrow use. Disrupting stab idea ....nah. Enduring Toxin....thats just a BETTEr version of seeping wound >.>. Leaping Mantis sting buff is overdone, it shouldn't go below 4-5 recharge IMO. Mirrored stance, we don't remove skills for sucking ass. Wastrels collapse, thats decent. Your horns of the ox tweak is awkward it does 15 damage at 12 and then sky rockets to 30 damage at 16 Dagger mastery. Highly irreguliar scaling. The Self inflicted KD of your horns idea is not bad. Blinding powder buff is over the top. Caltrops, no.

Stop changing every mechanic to lead attacks, it would be a largely frustrating idea that is not exactly a buff.

Yeah I want to know the reasoning behind removing mirrored stance a relativly poor skill.I like the idea for disrupting stab its quite nice.87.194.104.90 13:45, 2 December 2007 (UTC)Burton

Hehe just a joke on the Mirrored Stance removal :P --14:59, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Recall - decreased energy to 5, removed 10 second disable

Someone hasn't been in HB ever....

Temple Strike - decreased energy to 10, decreased recharge time to 12, decreased Dazed and Blind duration to 2...4...5

Pretty useless.

Deadly Haste - decreased activation time to 1/4, increased recharge time to 30, changed functionality to "Enchantment Spell. For 4 seconds and 1 second for each rank of Critical Strikes, you move 25% faster and attack 10% faster. This Skill reapplies itself everytime you land a critical hit. This Enchantment ends the next time you fail to hit."

Wow....IMBA much? Keep the idea but make it: for 4-8 seconds you move 0-25% faster. This skill reapplies itself everytime you land a critical hit.

All Shadow Steps have a max range of earshot and disable all non-dagger attack skills for 5 seconds.

Problem with that is, it does nothing. No assassin attack chain uses a non attack skill after a shadow step.--The Gates Assassin 20:42, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I think he posted the part about shadow steps disabling non-attack skills back when Dancing Daggers still worked. At the time, Augury would warp you in then you would hit Iron Palm and one last Dancing Daggers. 69.137.78.47 21:58, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Seeping Wound - changed functionality to "Hex Spell. For 5...17...20 seconds, if target foe is suffering from Bleeding or Deep Wound, that foe suffers -1...3...4 Health degeneration and 5...8...10 damage each second for each condition."

Ok so lets think about this one. If they are suffering from both bleeding and Deep wound, thats 10 damage per second 8 from the extra degen and 6 from the bleeding. For one, that activates the Deep wound. Second, lets say I take This chain:

Black mantis thrust --> Jungle strike --> Twisting fangs --> Black Spider strike --> Blades of steel. Thats 4 conditions, aka 40 damage per second. + 20 from the degen. So they have technically -30 degen from this skill and something that automatically activates the deep wound for 20 seconds. Kinda imba huh. --The Gates Assassin 06:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Seeping Wound's been on the underpowered list for a long time now. I've personally used that skill a LOT more then I should have... the biggest downside to it is, condition removal doubles as a hex removal with the thing. It NEEDS an extra effect even without the conditions, something as small as a speed debuff or an armor penalty would be killer for it, and make it at the very least useful as a enabling hex.

...on this note, are the over- under-powered skills discussion pages still around? I don't see links anymore around here... -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 22:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

They are, almost on top but a little bit down. Nicky Silverstar 08:42, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I found them. Was used to them being separate from the rest of the page content (like the Archive sidebar). -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 08:52, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Please do something about shadow form-archane echo sins who are ruining HA and wasting everyone's time. Have you observed HA lately? It's most painful thing and serves no purpose.

Echo Menders are just too imba

Dear Izzy, I've been playing Random Arena's for over 3 days now so I'm really experienced in this, and I would like it if you'd fix the most Imbalanced strategy in GW. Every single time I fight another warrior, and use my awesome Frenzy+healing signet combination, the enemy beats me up. This is mainly because they use the most ultimate build of all time, Echo, Arcane Echo and the skill Mending combined together is just too Imbalanced to stand a chance against, please fix this build by giving Mending a cooldown around twenty times higher then it currently is. Rhydeble 20:53, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Were we supposed to laugh? --Deathwing 20:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes. — Skakid HoHoHo 21:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh...damn. --Deathwing 21:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Just to check, the no sarcasm thing was rejected wasn't it? Rhydeble 21:03, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course not. --71.229.204.25 21:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't get it. Is he trolling or trying to be funny? --Lou-Saydus 21:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes. - HeWhoIsPale 21:45, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

@Lou-Saydus, actually I'm trying to get the people who come here, say stuff like: OMG IZZY YOU SUCK AND KILL BARRAGE RANGERS PLZ OMGZOR SUCKSUCk. to calm down a little bit and see how stupid they are behaving trying to make their specific build always work so they won't have to use their brains to take counters. And of course I want more people to hear about the Echo mender build so that we can add it to the build database xD. I personally think is doing a great job and being very considerate for many different kinds of players. A good example of this is that at the same time of the Splinter Weapon nerf, he also buffed Barrage. Rhydeble 21:53, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Flare Wars is much moar scarier 05:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

OH HOW COULD WE NOT NOTICE THAT.....that was sarcasm btw--Ensoriki 16:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

CAPS LOCK

STOP FAILING DUDE, YOUR UPDATES KILLED GW, GET FIRED AND DONT TOUCH GW2! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.233.202.211 .

dear izzy, please negate this kind of people, I personally think you are doing a great job Rhydeble 19:58, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

It's a balance. It can't be perfect. Izzy does it as good as he can, because if nothing was tweaked, the rich would get amazingly richer (see the talks about 40k/hour above). Calor — talk 20:00, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

I support Izzy's work, and I think hes doing a good job. But he just had to nerf good farming... --- Ressmonkey (talk) 00:58, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Izzy is more involved with pvp balances; that's where he fails. I agree he shouldn't touch GW2. If he is the pvp balancer of GW2, I will not buy it. There are only two bad things about this game - the game balances, and anet's carelessness towards players. 72.235.48.41 11:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Sadly I have to agree, he approaches the problems in the wrong way. Nerfing skills that are too strong makes for a very bad trend. Continually nerfing skill simply makes the game less interesting and slower. The only reason some skills are too strong is because there are a lot of EXTREMELY WEAK skills in the game that pretty much have no use and never see game play except for the very rare RA or fort aspenwood. Not to mention the numerous useless skills in the game, that are supposta be "elite". Many of them do not deserve the status. --Lou-Saydus 16:37, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

You forgot Mending and Peace and Harmony. Antiarchangel 12:58, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

How about the fact that Dancing Daggers does about 100 damage at lv 15 while Ice Spear does only 70? Done25 17:03, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Recharge dude. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 22:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

BAH, see paradox, see teh fact that it cuts right through prot and shit. DD is superior to many ele skills. Also, aftercast plus Dparadox, and ice is shit.

Anet wasn't able to create balance without tuning down the vast majority of skills and greatly reducing diversity. Ironically, this did more harm than good and is exactly what I don't want to see in gw2. 218.58.136.4 12:08, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

What about the recharge? DD takes 5 secs to rechrge, so what? Your gonna follow it with Entangling Asp and Sig of Toxic Shock anyways. Done25 03:36, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

His job isn't as easy as you guys think. For one thing, overpowered skills can't be ignored. It doesn't matter if you buff weak skills if the overpowered skills are left alone, it would not change a thing. For example, when NF came out, Euro-Spike, Paragons, Thumpers and Dervishes were so insane that hexes didn't see any play. Then when those imbalances were brought to reasonable levels, suddenly hexway was a huge problem. Would buffing hexes have caused the same outcome if he left alone the other things? No way. Those builds were so powerful that hex teams wouldn't have time to do anything even though hexes happened to be overpowered too. --TimeToGetIntense 11:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, it doesn't help that his total job experience is two total flops and Asheron's Call. LOL KATARS AMIRITE? --71.208.141.117 11:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

You're right. His job isn't as easy as we think. It's easier than we think. I could balance this game accidently. The problem is that nothing ever gets done, and when there actually IS a balance update, it only changes 10 skills. There are more than 10 skills in the game that need changing izzy. Change 100 at a time and you might get somewhere. Shard 01:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

The fact that you can't spell "accidentally" makes me doubt that, but if it's so easy, would you mind showing where you balance all 1235 skills in gw? Lord Belar 02:08, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Wow shard. You really do fail. --Readem 02:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

December?

I'm just kind of curious, is a December skill "update" going to be coming up soon? The last update was more of a tweak, so it's been more than a month since the last "proper" update. (Nobody Knows) 20:22, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

During the Gaile talk on Dec 17th, she stated that the next balance update is scheduled for January. - TeleTeddy 10:05, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Smiting Prayers

today i saw a bunch of noobs using a build based on smiting prayers. everyone knows that smiting prayers is not supposed to be used in this game, and thats why the makers of the game are trying to keep it weak like it should be. but they were using it and being able to beat some teams even though smiting prayers is not supposed to be used by anyone other than nubs. the skills were holy strike and stonesoul strike. please nerf them but i know you wont because your a shitty admin. TouchersRule 20:43, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Troll lulz. Sorry I killed you w/ my epic smiteball. --Readem 20:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Lol not sure if this is sarcasm or what...either way ummm post less...like meCoridan 20:48, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

IS this a troll, I can't tell. Prokiller88 22:46, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

no its just that i want the good players like me to win instead of the nubs. TouchersRule 22:56, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

You'd know all about that, wouldn't you? Lord Belar 01:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Its even funnier when you look at his name. Done25 03:20, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

So smiting prayers is weak, AND being played by "nubs". Yet a "good" player like yourself got beaten by them and wants these weak skills nerfed further? Anyone else see the contradiction? As an aside, you seem to have grasped the basic idea of saying please when asking for something, but that generally counts for nothing when you follow with an immature insult. Please grow up - Terra

I see absolutely no reason why smiting monks and everything else shouldn't be equally powerful. There is absolutely no reason why a smiting monk should be less powerful. He must deal less damage if he's also healing, yes, to be balanced, but he should be just as powerful as a Protection Monk, or an Interrupt Ranger, or an Axe Warrior. Mistress of Trade 16:20, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't know about you guys, but I see mostly sarcasm here... "everyone knows that smiting prayers is not supposed to be used in this game" doesn't seem like sarcasm to you guys? :P Let's not get defensive and/or insulting over this one... -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 18:55, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Or he's dead serious, and thinks Smiting Prayers is just a laugh-in-the-fist from ANet. --84.24.206.123 00:36, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

In which case we should laugh anyway. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 02:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Holy/Soulstone strike are terrible, and if you get beat by them, so are you. Shard 02:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

See Blood and Chains [Goth] but then the majority of the posters here wouldn't know anything about that.

Armor ignoring damage agains toucher h4xx0rz rangers is a b*tch isnt it? Scissors are fine, but I really think you should nerf paper - rock 85.225.131.60 14:01, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

No, it's Im Paper Nerf Scissors Rock Is [Fine] --Gimmethegepgun 04:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear Izzy, READ

You probably wont ever read this, but I thought id say it. HA is broken. Its a bunch of gimmicky shit with no time limits or anything, so frankly I dont play it. Until recently TA has been fine. O wait, now its gimmick shit as well. Take a look at HB. Novembers monthlys were....Capway. I have seen more godamn capway than i care to think about, and its gimmick shit. Fix Hero battles or call it Hero capping. I still play GW for its GvG and believe it or not RA. I see less gimmicky shit in RA than i do TA. O and nerf that godamn Dancing daggers. On a better note, i think that buff to WoH(and nerf to LoD) was one of the best buffs and nerfs you ever did. You put some level of skill back into the backline. Before I go UNERF THE GODAMN DAGGER SINS!.... Assasin isnt in ASSASINate for nothing. They teleport, kill one guy, AND LEAVE!! If there are more than 2 people there its GG for the sin. Now Sins can barely kill a caster alone, never mind a ranger or warrior. Unnerf them. They were not overpowered before, only to the nooby-ass overextended biches that whine about dying. Im done, if you dont read this....then you dont read this... kthxbai 24.141.45.72 14:29, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

You speak the truth, although you do it in a rather whiny fashion. Also, dancing daggers sins were nerfed and are very rarely used anymore. 69.137.78.47 20:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

No, he doesn't. — Skakid HoHoHo 20:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah he really doesn't at all. Dagger sins are underpowered....since when. Capping in Hero Battles is bad now? My sin can barely kill alone? Strange, I thought I was killing people.--The Gates Assassin 21:51, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Capping in a thing called "BATTLE" is wrong. They just rename hero battle to hero capping. Prokiller88 22:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Because then it adds skill to it, you have to have amazing micro management skills to win in there. The way to make it more fun for ppl like you is to make it like HA, have different maps be different types of matches. Probably just 4 v 4, preist and capping tho. --The Gates Assassin 23:30, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Dishonorable

A nice attempt at making RA more fun, but most people just hate it. If you're stuck against a team with 4 monks, and after 5 minutes none of them die, why do you have to waste 5 more minutes of your time /dancing? The dishonorable system is bullshit, nobody likes it, if you're intelligent you'll remove it. Thanks. — Skakid HoHoHo 20:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

It works fine. 4 Monk teams almost never happen and 90% of my battles are 4 v 4 and over quick. He fixed RA with that being a very minor and rare setback. Oh and it wasn't Izzy. Andrew Patrick is who you are looking for. --The Gates Assassin 21:46, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Most people? How would you know what MOST people think. Personally, I like the system. Jigoku 23:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

If you like the system, you don't play very much or very seriously. I know it's just RA, but I like to at least try to win. I don't want to play with people who are either greifing or just plain terrible. I also don't like to wait out 4 monk matches. You'd be surprised how many teams end up being too defensive. Then there are teams without any sense of tactics or positioning. Like, when some idiot overextends on me and I run well back past my own team and they don't collapse on him even if I call him out, I'd really like to leave. --TimeToGetIntense 23:18, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Of course, Since I don't agree with your opinion I must be awful! Brilliant! Jigoku 02:18, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

If you don't like people doing that, then don't play RA. By clicking the "Enter Battle" Button in RA, you're agreeing to fight a PvP battle with a team you don't know, and of a questionable skill level. TA is there for a reason, and if you want coordinated 4v4 battles, then you should go there. Lord Belar 01:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

This is hardly an argument worth debating. If you could possibly comprehend the number of matches that lasted for an hour, while you're on your ninth win versus a ranger that does nothing else but carry self heals and stances and runs around, then you might find a little sense of reasoning behind this system. Or how about each time you find an assassin who leaves the instant they dont see a monk because they have no self heals... well I'll just leave it at that. And you're complaining about getting a hex that lasts for 10 minutes...If people aren't using /resign when a four monk party submerges, then just leave. The chances of you getting into another 4 monk group within a one hour time frame is slim to none. (Terra Xin 03:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC))

Dishonor FIXED RA, you know how annoying it was having nearly every match have 1-3 leavers? now at best you see that once every 20 games, RA is BETTER now... if you dont want to wait in match then wait out match with dishonor either way SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!(note the last phrase was not directed at anyone, just a general statement) 23:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Did you guys play RA before the Gladiator title was added? People did not leave very often. True story. --TimeToGetIntense 09:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Quotedfortruthsituation. But since izzy is not planning to nuke glad title to a fiery hell it deserves, dishonour system was a necesaary evil to stop a pointless evil. It kinda feels like LoD with Nf power creep...

Now that I think of it, rank and fame is also BS, but what do I know... Of course, HA would not be filled with gimmecky shit if it did not have the rank system. Just moi two cents.

Rank and Fame makes sense for HA because it is not a random format, it's a low level competitive format. The Glad Title made sense for TA because it's not a random format and it did have a rather serious community at one time. Random Arenas should not give Glad Points, that's all that needed to be done. People are afraid to do what is needed so we end up with terrible half-assed solutions. --TimeToGetIntense 11:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Happy New Year

And the best wishes to you, Izzy. Hope to hear from you soon! ^^ Nicky Silverstar 11:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

burning speed,glimmer,and swirling aura

when u happen to get back plz make this skill useful,i mean come on!!!!i set my self on fire for 5 secs just to set something else on fire that requires me to me right next to em???and also swirling aura is kinda,well just as useless-45 sec recharge,10 energy,18 secs of 50% blocking with 15 water magic....needs to be buffed,and glimmer of light as well,since woh and others are always betetr than it....

• Glimmer of Light is pretty well balanced in my opinion. Heals for a decent amount for its casting/recharge time. It sees use on Arenas, and probably AB. - Kiji 21:01, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Smaller heal then WoH, yes, but with that sort of recharge, it would be downright broken if it healed for more. And if you increased the recharge and healing, then you've just got a cheap copy of WoH... (and I don't mean cheap in a good way.) -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 05:47, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't have much use for Glimmer. It doesn't heal for that much, and the short recharge just means you get to waste 5 energy twice as fast. I find bringing WoH and Dwayna's Kiss is good enough. Dwayna's Kiss outperforms Glimmer in many situations anyway. Glimmer would be better suited if it gave back energy, like 1 or 2, at some point. If your energy is below 10, you gain back 2 energy. If your target is suffering a condition, enchantment or hex, you gain 1 energy. Something. --Reklaw 03:07, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

The fast cast time is what makes glimmer worth-while, should you choose it. --ChronicinabilitY 03:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I couldn't agree more with swirling aura, I put it at the top of elementalists most useless skills. Maybe if it included ALL projectiles including spells such as its description implies then it might be worth a skill slot.

Glimmer is well balanced; it's probably the best spike heal there is. The only reason it's not used is because Word of Healing is target self now, so you can infuse and then heal yourself and be back up to full. Armond 09:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Glimmer of Light might be very useful on a monk hero with Channeling, or maybe a mesmer hero with energy stealing or something. They could spam it all day and thus have enough room for other support skills like interrupts, removal and the like. I don't know how well it will work in PvP, but even there, the uninterruptability should count for something... 87.210.150.58 08:03, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

In PvP it generally takes the place of Reversal of Fortune on a skill bar, while providing slightly different functionality. It catches spikes very easily (keep in mind most spikes are intended to do maybe 50 more damage than a character has health - I've been healed by the divine favor bonus of Holy Veil in mid-spike and lived with 2 hp) and also provides cheap, quick heals for normal use. -- Armond Warblade 09:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Old and Overused Builds

Just wondering but when are the old and extremely overused builds going to be nerfed so that new builds can rise to power? The meta game is becoming increasingly stale in Alliance Battles and RA. It seems that AB is basically patrolled by Touch Rangers, Invinsa-MM's and Searing Flames-Rodgort spammers with the occasional sin or Recall monk running around. As much as I like these builds, it seems like they've just been around entirely to long and have funneled the metagame into either countering or running these specific builds. Touch Ranger is probably one I will kick myself for mentioning if anything happens, but my god, half the people in AB run this build and it's older than dirt. I would suggest moving Offering of Blood to Soul Reaping and not changing any of the stats, that way the skill is not nerfed for necros and Touchers will be searching PvXWiki for the next flavor of the month. Invinsi-MM's have basically become the new Ele-Dervish annoyance build in the game and something should probably be done about that as well, considering how there really aren't enough bodies in RA and AB to support 10 of them each round (I seriously came into RA with two of these guys and a toucher today). The metagame needs a shuffling and not just by reviving old skills and nerfing others, we need to nerf stale BUILDS all together.76.185.138.221 10:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Nerfing overused skills does not make weak skills viable ever, you can not create diversity this way, the metagame is stale BECAUSE the majority of skills is already below mediocricy, the metagame is stale BECAUSE 90% of the skills are not used at all because they are utter crap. The amount of viable skills should be increased instad of turning viable skills into crap. There must be viable alternatives before you can nerf skills and builds into the ground. 87.189.229.54 12:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

That will never happen. Anet/Izzy is here to do the easiest thing, nerf 1 skill instead of buffing 5. Prokiller88 22:32, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Its funny to see the constant nerfs of the best skills all the time I bet anets ultimate goal is to make all skills useless, I have stopped playing GW because of it. My main character is a Paragon... I wonder if they ever will be able to think like doctors treat the cause not the sympton...--85.225.131.12 23:28, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Anet never nerfs overpowered builds. They only nerf builds that are already perfectly fine, while leaving the gimmicks for the 90% of the player base that doesn't have enough talent to win with strategy and skill. Anet isn't about the gameplay, they're about the money. 72.235.48.41 11:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

So the original spirit spam was perfectly fine? -- Gordon Ecker 12:09, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

No, but they could have changed the mechanics and not Ether Renewal Nerfed it. --Deathwing 19:22, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

They did both. -- Gordon Ecker 03:10, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

They didn't change the mechanics of spirit spam. It's still imba in small arenas, but the introduction of a billion new ways to do AoE damage makes the original spiritspam less effective. -Auron 03:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes they did, prior to the August 25th, 2005 update spirits affected eachother, and you could summon multiple spirits of the same type within range of eachother. -- Gordon Ecker 04:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

JAPANESE LAGWAY

why japanese and koreans play on their server which are FAR AWAY from europe, so they lag 0 and euro lags 1k? plz let em play in europe. --82.55.172.128 14:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, let's fly anyone in asia who wants to play gw to europe. Great suggestion there. Lord Belar 16:23, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

The Japanese/Koreans are going to win anyway tbh. Not that huge a deal. :P Armond 20:30, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Resignway beats everyone! :P Lord Belar 20:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

europe and america have more people involved with competitive gvgs. i find it simple common sense that people plays were the majority of the players are, not the inverse. and they suck btw, almost every asian guild is huge failure today. --82.55.172.128 22:54, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe they also lag in the matches against euro/americans thats why they always run split.87.194.104.90 19:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)Burton

nope they run split cause they have no actual skill and play WoW.. damn nubs 24.141.45.72 19:01, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

LOL I DIN NO THT U DUN ND SKILZ 2 RUN SPLTZ?????? OMG U MKAE MI LAUFF. BaineTheBotter 10:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Woohoo poor customer care

Izzy, you haven't been on the forums or wiki for over 2 months. Do your job or quit it plz. Shard 01:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

He hasn't done a skill update in over 2 months either. 69.137.78.47 08:40, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Shard, what is the point? Either you make Izzy come here even less, or he doesn't even read it at all. And it is not very nice either. Nicky Silverstar 10:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

And he is doing his job as far as anyone can see; his job is to balance skills, and he's been doing that (a slightly longer gap between updates isn't enough to claim that he's not doing anything at all). As far as I know, posting here or on forums isn't technically a part of his job. If you want customer care, try contacting, I dunno, customer care? -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 11:02, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't know, maybe he's not on forums because of ppl like you who's always flaming him. Someday I would like to c these ppl doing his job, balancing skills to make it equal fairness for all 10 professions. --MageMontu 11:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

And MageMontu has won the prize!>>>>>>>people like you who are always flaming him. Which is why he has not come on; he is only human after all. In fact isn't this topic a personal attack considering Izzy is a guildwiki member?Jigoku 13:23, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I'd love to have his job. --Deathwing 20:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

O.O what did I win? A person tour by Izzy and Gaile around Anet studios? --MageMontu 20:59, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Shard, can you blame him, seriously? I am fine with Izzy not wasting his time here any more, but concentrating on (hopefully) more worthwile issues. - TeleTeddy 10:40, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Agress With Deathwing upthere Who WOuldnt want this guys job its like freaking awsome :)--Wild rituals 13:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Mirrored stance

why havn't u nerfed it yet? its too powerful vs frenzy warriors --Cursed Angel 23:53, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

You're joking right? BaineTheBotter 03:45, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this page has now officially outlived its use...

Thunderclap bug/misfunction ?

Thunderclap states:

"Elite Hex Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, if target foe is struck for lightning damage, that foe and adjacent foes are knocked down, and you lose 15...9...7 Energy or Thunderclap ends."

Except you lose the energy even when you don't successfully knock down any opponent (Tested on a hapless Shing Jea Island Yeti; he kept standing & casting, I kept wanding him and losing energy)

Also, targets recovering (ie, in the process of standing up) appear to be immune to any knockdown effects. Test: Isle of the Nameless, dummy targets; cast Thunderclap on the practice target, wand, second wand hit coems when they're "standing up", energy loss happens, no KD effect generated.

The wording leads to the belief that the energy loss is conditional on the knockdowns (no KD, no energy loss) but it appears the reverse is true; the energy loss always happens, the KD is conditional on the target and/or adjacents being in a valid state for KD.

Which is the correct/intended behavior for Thunderclap ?? Clan Yumemiru 13:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I think the effect that characters who are in the midst of a knockdown cannot be knocked down is intentional, otherwise it would be far too easy to completely shut them down. Nicky Silverstar 13:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree, but that still leaves the energy loss question open to interpretation and/or implementation. Clan Yumemiru 13:19, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Well the general rule of thumb is, if it says this happens AND that happens, neither effect depends on the other (skills like Psychic Distraction for example), but if it says this happens and if it happens, that happens (skills like Distracting Shot) then the second effect will not happen unless the first happens. You probably already know this, but if you want to keep a target knocked down with Thunderclap, use a shortbow. It has the perfect repeat rate to keep a target down. 69.137.78.47 15:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

You misconstrued the problem. It is not a usage problem, it is a wording issue and a rather annoying misfunctionality of an already rather maligned elite skill. It is not about cherry-picking the best weapon; it is about losing energy for no effect (and even worse, if someone else in your team tosses lightning damage, you also lose the enrgy even if you get no effect) - hence my question. Clan Yumemiru 15:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The wording is consistent with every other Guild Wars skill of the type: since it says "A, and B", rather than "A, and if A then B", the effects A and B are each independent of the other. It's not a "misfunctionality", that's how the skill is intended to work. Hammer Bash still uses adrenaline if you attempt to use it on a foe in Steady Stance, Hexes still cost energy if you attempt to use them on a foe with Hex Breaker, et cetera. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 15:15, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I guess he knows, and by the sight of it don't care as no one use that skill anyway, i love the function of it but as the energy cost is too hich i don't bother trying it --Cursed Angel 15:18, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The comma is excessive. That's what's causing the confusion. To one who knows proper grammar rather well and yet has to deal with bad grammar over the internet rather often, this is a minor detail (parsing out extra commas is far easier than parsing out various sentence fragments); ignoring the obvious solution of removing the comma, would it sound better if it instead were described as follows?

"Elite Hex Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, if target foe is struck for lightning damage, you lose 15...9...7 Energy or Thunderclap ends, and that foe and adjacent foes are knocked down."

-- Armond Warblade 09:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Skill Balance

Give up on skill balances eh, as there hasn't been one since November? If you didn't quit or anything please get a skill balance team for GW2, so we don't only have good skills for what you feel like. 165.199.5.192 14:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

In case you missed it on the Upcoming changes and features page, there actually IS a skill balance due somewhere this month, and contrary to your mistaken belief, both Izzy AND the team try very hard to insure a well-rounded skill balance for all professions.

In games like Guild Wars, skill balance is highly dynamic, especially given the almost infinite number of combinations you can make; occasionally this leads to problems of overuse of some skills at the expense of others. These skill balance iterations (such as the upcoming one) are intended to keep people sharp, and paying attention to the entire skill selection, and contrary to many people's beliefs, this is a GOOD thing, both for PvP and PvE, because it requires people to approach problems with an open mind. Clan Yumemiru 15:09, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Well tbh it doesn't look like the skill balances work very well. SF still melts r12, magebane still pisses everyone off in arenas, hexway is still gg, and physicals is just wtf- 5 warrior 1 ranger 2 paragon teams aka zergway owns the face out of balanced teams anyday in HA. Just wtf. Call that balance? The skills are HARDLY balanced. Perhaps listen more to what the community think? 80.193.1.106 23:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

I would agree with you if the community could regularly and consistently come up with a single conclusion. Jigoku 01:12, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You sound like Frank. Except, he sounds much younger, QQs more, and you spell better. lulz. --Readem 00:16, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

If they wanted balance they would buff some skill and bring them up to the level of the more used skills. 68.20.39.69 01:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not just skill balance that needs to be addressed here, it's also map balance; far too many maps feature choke points, enclosed areas, and, worse yet, capture points, all of which require people to bunch up in order to do anything (the other option is sometimes to leave the game). This leads to people bringing AoE spells, which are overpowered because of one simple factor: There is no limit to the number of people that can be affected by an AoE spell. Fixing this alone would solve a lot of problems; it doesn't matter so much if your team can't afford to split apart if no more than three people can be affected by Savannah Heat, or two by Searing Flames.

Hexes are and always have been overpowered. There is no good hex removal in all of Guild Wars. A very basic example: compare two elites specifically designed to alleviate pressure, one of which removes hexes and one of which removes conditions. Expel Hexes and Restore Conditions: One removes all conditions and heals for each condition removed, and one... removes two hexes. Which are easier to apply, stick around longer, and are a lot more damaging. All you have to do is hit a few more buttons on your skill bar and you've got a few more hexes out; and what warrior is going to attack under Price or Faintheartedness? Divert Hexes is another good one to compare this to; like Restore Conditions, it removes a large number of hexes, but unlike Restore Conditions, it has two glaring flaws: For one, not every team runs enough hexes to make it worth bringing (whereas a team that doesn't bring a lot of conditions is going to be beaten regardless of whether you brought Restore Conditions), and once you run into a team that doesn't have enough hexes to make it worth bringing DH over HB, you've wasted one of your monks' elites. (And you thought permanently maintaining Signet of Humility was bad! Now you've got one with no cast time or aftercast or skill slot usage!) My suggestion to solve this is simple: Buff hex removal to match that of condition removal. Even if Expel only removed all hexes and did nothing else, I'd be very happy. If Veil's recharge was drastically reduced, I'd be happy. If Remove Hex had half the recharge, I'd be very happy. If Cure Hex removed two hexes, I'd be very happy (and three would be amazing while still balanced). In this way, all four have distinct advantages; Expel and Cure are good against hex stacks (which easily reach six or more hexes; I've been under no less than five different hexes in TA), Veil is good for getting the bottom hex out of a stack or getting rid of Diversion spam, and Remove is good for getting rid of AoE hexes (such as when your casters all mess up and get hit by Panic or when your frontliners get hit by Reckless Haste on a spike or train). Divert Hexes is harder to balance, but I think it'd be better if it removed conditions, well, unconditionally, and removed more of both hexes and conditions, and gave a (smaller) heal for each condition and hex removed. That makes it a versatile elite which, with a bit of number tweaking, won't outperform RC or a buffed Expel.

Magebane Shot is just... very annoying. The only solutions I can think of off the top of my head are to reduce the disable time to five seconds (not really the problem), reduce it to only being able to interrupt skills or perhaps only spells (again, not really the problem, as that's what you're using it for anyway), or to increase the energy cost to 10 and the recharge to 7. This last one seems the only viable option to me.

Dervishes are insane pressure. I finally got back to monking for a single match a few weeks ago; I didn't monk afterwards, simply because we faced two dervishes, both of whom (obviously) used Tree Form as their elite. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Tree-mode is better than god-mode. Monking on the receiving end of Wearying Strike, which deals unconditional deep wound and bonus damage, to no less than three people, is insane. Similar skills are elite and carry large drawbacks, not to mention that they only affect one target. A quote I heard was "Scythes are imba pressure". While I might not always think the best of the man who said it, I cannot think of a single way of summing the situation up better. When you have warriors speccing into a weapon other than axe, sword, or hammer because it's simply far better pressure than they can get with runes or their own skills, there's a problem. (Might I mention that when we ran that build, we didn't use any scythe mastery skills, but kept our Strength-based skills? A simple change in weapon made us far more effective.)

Ancestor's Rage is stupid at the moment. I can think of no better way of describing it. Quite a while ago I logged on to my PvE ritualist for the first time in forever; I scrolled over my skill bar, saw Ancestor's Rage, took one look at the 5e cost (this was news to me, as I never play my ritualist), and swore off HA except for boredom and randomness. Make it ten energy at the least, and increase the recharge time to 10 as well while you're at it. A Guild Wars without Ancestor's Rage is far better than one with a possibly broken version of it.

Splinter Weapon goes right back into the AoE conundrum I mentioned above. It's still too many people and too much damage. It needs to be less on one or both accounts.

Physicals are also pretty insane. A big part of this is from Fear Me which is, you guessed it an unlimited targets AoE skill. Another large chunk of it comes from the condition pressure from Drunken and Desperation Blow. Yet another problem is the energy gain from Steady Stance. Steady stance shouldn't be an elite; it's just that the numbers are so good that it shouldn't be an elite. The numbers need to go down. A lot. Make it a worthless elite like it should be; there's already plenty of useless skills, in elite and non-elite form. A game with a large number of skills will always have a large number of skills that are relatively unusable; that situation is largely preferable to the current one, where there are a large number of skills that are simply far too powerful for the game's balance.

Caster damage is another huge problem. Physicals are supposed to do all the heavy damage in a group (though, as above, they should never be able to do so much that opposing teams simply crumble to them, no matter what the situation). The only time a caster should be able to do a good chunk of damage is to a frenzied warrior... so why do we have things like Searing Flames (or, indeed, most of the fire magic line) ruining the balance? The ultimate rule of game balance is that no one setup should be any more likely to succeed than any other, leaving everything up to skill; in this case, one would only take a caster because the caster provides utility, which a warrior does not.

The largest, most radical, and best solution to fixing Guild Wars is not likely to be implemented, but I'll throw it out here anyway: Instead of following the above suggestions (except those related to hexes and Magebane Shot), remove all Dervishes, Paragons, Assassins, and Ritualists from PvP. Disallow them as primary or secondary professions in PvP areas, disallow their skills from being used in PvP, force their attributes to 0 upon entering a PvP battle (all this redundancy simply because patch fixes have been hacked around in the past). Disallow all Nightfall skills from being used in PvP with the exceptions of Light of Deliverance [and restore it to its proper statistics, please, before its latest update], Crippling Slash, Agonizing Chop, Flail, Dismiss Condition, Enraging Charge, Natural Stride, Divert Hexes, Shield of Absorption, Glimmer of Light, Mending Touch, Zealous Benediction, Hex Eater Vortex, Mirror of Disenchantment, Blinding Surge, Storm Djinn's Haste, Mind Blast, Freezing Gust, and Icy Shackles) and seriously consider every Eye of the North skill as well. The only ones that come to mind as being worth keeping from EotN (but still studying) are Shell Shock, Aneurysm, Cure Hex, and Aura of Stability. Yes, it's very radical, but Nightfall introduced a power creep the likes as has not been seen before - it would be far better to remove everything that contributed to this problem and add back in those that don't once they've been proven safe. With study and care, all skills can be slowly balanced, and every skill in the game can be made available to PvPers once again.

Problem with making so many PvE only skills? Yes, indeed. This does nothing to make PvE balanced; however, as Guild Wars was originally made for PvP, and PvE was made for skills of truly epic proportions, I think it can wait. Regardless, there are other, more immediate problems that stand in the way of PvE balance...

Unfortunately, I realize you've not been active on the wiki lately, and therefore you're not as likely to read this as you once were. I think a short message (even a "hi, I'll read this later, ~~~~) from you would be greatly appreciated by the Guild Wars community - and a large step towards improving the game. The community losing contact with you is a major blow; you posting something, anything, would accordingly be a huge step in the right direction, and would be a start towards restoring the faith of many. Even an explanation that you've died and someone new has taken over for your job would be of critical importance... and I'm not stressing nearly enough how vital this step would be.

In the hopes of a balanced game that I don't log on because I'm forced to, I am, sincerely yours,

Timothy James Seyfert, -- Armond Warblade 11:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

As a disclaimer, a number of inconsistencies in this post have been brought to my attention; however, as it was written at approximately 2 am, I feel justified in making my day's allotment of mistakes. -- Armond Warblade 11:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

To me it sounds more like a rant that says: "please remove the skills I dislike, and don't touch or buff the skills I like" than a fix to the game. As a caster, I see no reason whatsoever why casters aren't allowed to deal damage, especially since they will get beaten to pulp by a random warrior in under 5 seconds unless the specialize in support. Second, AoE damage is only overpowered against people who aren't clever enough to spread out. You need to hit at least 3 targets with most spells just to make them viable, when 2 is the best you can realistically hope for in PvP. The only Elementalist skill that does what the Elementalist was originally supposed to do is Searing Flames: reasonable damage for a high amount of energy, the rest of the damage skills are all very weak, especially compared to the melee fighters. If your team allows a dervish to hit 3 targets at once in PvP, then I can see where the problem lies, and it is not the insane amount of damage that casters supposedly deal. I am sorry if I am offending you personally, but either you or 75% of the people posting on this talk page are wrong, it cannot be both. Nicky Silverstar 12:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you read what I said about making maps not suck, or did I fail at typing out everything in my head? Cause it's pretty hard to spread out in fetid. Also, I'd be quite willing to accept the 75% thing - I've accepted it since before I started posting here. -- Armond Warblade 12:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

You bring up a few good points, but taken together, your longish post is just a rant about individual grieviances, not in any form a possible solution. Let's see, you think that:

• "Hexes are and always have been overpowered."
• "Physicals are also pretty insane."
• "Caster damage is another huge problem."

So in fact ALL damage is a problem? What do you want us to do, wand each other to dead or throw fluffy bunnies? --Xeeron 13:19, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

A few things should be considered in my opinion:

• Hexes are meant to be difficult to remove, but that is also because they are more difficult to apply (instead of an attack + a condition, you get just the hex, and anti-caster pretty much takes care of them, as do interrupts).
• Changing maps is a lot harder than changing skills.
• Most of the dicussions on Izzy's subpages have come to different conclusions that you have in your summary, like for example that AoE is in fact mostly underpowered, if one considers the fact that a long casting time + a long recharge time + a lot of energy = a damage spell that one can easily walk out of.

I do agree that you make some valid points, but on a whole, it feels to me that you summarize the state of the discussion a few months back, not that of today. Nicky Silverstar 13:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

P.S. The reason Searing Flames is so powerful, is because a Fire Elementalist has little support to offer to a PvP team, so he'd better deal a lot of damage, and there's nothing wrong with a damage dealer dealing damage, now is there?

Yes, Xeeron, I do believe there's way too much damage in the game. The last paragraph, I believe, is the most coherent, and also the one that offers the most clear solution. Nicky, no there isn't a problem with a damage dealer dealing damage, but he shouldn't be doing so much damage that he makes r12+ melt (no exaggeration). The fact that changing maps is a lot harder than changing skills is no excuse for bad balance, and, as I have said twice now, walking out of AoE is impossible in HA. There are capture points and there are places where there simply is not enough room to move.

Nicky, about your comment on hexes: given unsplittable maps and the sheer number of hexes that are thrown around by even one character on a team, you are severely overestimating the power of hex counters.

I should have said this before I went to bed, but I didn't, and now it's going to sound like a whine; I honestly couldn't care less if any of you guys have read it, or what you think of it. I care what Izzy thinks of it.

-- Armond Warblade 19:39, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Then it is simply down to a matter of preferences: I prefer matches where people actually die every now and then to the 20 minute waitfests that GvG was before the considerable damage buffs/healing reductions. Btw, Jade Island is far from unsplittable. --Xeeron 20:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but even at capture points, a team can spread out a reasonable distance (like positioning themselves on both sides of the same shrine), since the AoE of Searing Flames is very small. I must admit that I have little HA experience, but I am glad that there is at least one area of PvP where AoE can actually do what it is supposed to do. As for hexes, they are easier to counter imho. Although hex countering is less powerful than condition countering, what I meant was that hexes are more susceptible to non-specific counters. Even when that is taken out of the equation, then it is still far easier to take out a necromancer or a mesmer than it is to take out a warrior, ranger or paragon spamming their conditions AND dealing heaps of damage while doing so. A removed hex is also less likely to be reapplied quickly than just about any condition other than dazed. I may be underestimating some things, especially since I have little HA experience, but until people will accept me in their group at r0, I cannot test your comments. I am not perfect, I know that. I just like to vent my opinion, just like you.Nicky Silverstar 22:21, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

How the hell can nubs call hexway over powered. There are like 4 elites just for removing hexes. Bring convert hexes blindbot if you want. Izzy. Nerf Dancing daggers, Unerf sins, Nerf IWAY, and make some changes to meta. Its stagnant and boring. Oh and spirits are weak as shit now, unerf them a bit plz, not too much health, but just enough. P.S. Fix the godamn soul-reaping. Get rid of that stupid timer (and godammit hero battles is gay now.. hit observe and get bored, then nerf stuff kthx) Btw cool beard in that old picture wen u type 'izzy' in search 24.141.45.72 23:34, 16 January 2008 (UTC) Oh and " Armond Warblade" QQ more man, Know how to counter tree trunks? Guardian, aegis chain, get skill, wait till their avatar falls, and omfg, now they suck! You'll find that the better you get, the easier it gets. And Ancestors rage is deliberatly overpowered to bring in another use to ritualists other than s-spamming. You come across as a whiny scrub stuck in a PvE guild. Yes AoE sucks in HA. HA is gay every1 agrees, but its fun. Hero Battles is gay, but fun. GvG is fun and not gay. (o and those dervs you faced was probably us)(we usually wipe the monks so bad) 24.141.45.72 23:40, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Nerf IWAY? What rock have you been living under? Oh, and armond pwns nubs. Lord Belar 23:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Bringing elite hex removal = useless elite unless your team faces hexway. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 05:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

What about adding more overlap between elite hex removal and elite condition removal? -- Gordon Ecker 05:46, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Buff Blessed Light then. Antiarchangel 23:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Here is my point of view, and I'll say it as an anon because I'm gonna get flamed for saying it: Izzy is either lying or is a fool. There. Remember when he says: I want diversion in the game? Well, it ain't happening. It can NEVER happen in GW1, because the game is BUILT of certain, key, omgosh-you-can't-leave-home-withoutit skills. He is in no mood to change them, nor is he willing to update some of the existing crap (Lets see... all of motivation, earth without wards, all of smiting, all of communing, all of shadow arts save monk skills, all of DF expect a few, all of fire except MB, pretty much all ele, monk, Rt elites, I can go on and on..) The game is virtually littered with crap skills (I believe their number is greater than a thousand) and he is not going to adjust or change them simply because he either nolonger cares (Acceptable excuse, he has enough on his plate for GW2) or hat he no longer wants to distrupt this balance. FACE IT, and caps here for clear communication of point: GW PVP HAS BECOME SIMILAR TO WOW, ON THE FACT THAT THERE IS NO DIVERSTITY WHATSOEVER. Considering this 'policy' of Izzy's, we can safely assume no crap is getting buffed soon. This is why Armond's radical suggestion does not sound radical at all. In fact, it makes a perfect amount of sense: If we have this OP and crap littering pvp, WHY NOT, I ask, WHY NOT nuke them - we'll eliminate both pve tanks in arenas and gimmick shit both at the same time! I'd prefer Izzy to drop his policy of few chosen skills over a huge selection which happened to be GW's selling point of diversity, and buff the crap, but it ain't happening. In for a penny, in for a pound: just nuke both the OP and crap. It saves everyone the trouble.

wb izzy ^^/gj/more sugestions lol

nice job on the jan 17 update,love the magebane nerf,was getting really annoying in ra with constant interupts :/,scorpion wire is ftw ^^,YAA needed that buff too,coward is still hard to use though >.<,warmongers is STILL USEABLE despite alot of comments(its actually better now),heart of shadow will stop those pesky spike sins ^^ from living from one wanding lol,and the other skills got decent balances as well,its all good this update(although mesmers may be upset).

There are a few skills in need of dire buffs though....work your magic ^^ -burning speed-lol 2 years and still havent found any use for it >.< -swirling aura-long recharge,for meh duratrion,high energy,and half decent blocking :/ -glimmer of light-never used after woh buff,try changing this in description Glimmer of Light-heal target for (....) and all party members recieve the divine favor bonus or gain 1 energy per 2 conditions or hexes on that ally -thunderclap-has potential but extremly high energy that triggers on all lightning dmg,even on alrdy kd'd foes,either reduce enegry cost on hits or add some dmg,or make the energy loss happen less -soldiers stance-5-8 secs of attack faster while under shout or chant lol?...kinda weak :/ -water trident-lol weak version of ice spear with longer recharge and kd,increase dmg or something plz -fox fangs-wild strike is better than this in every way,buff fox fangs dmg plz -soul reaping-plz plz plz un nerf this,sway is alrdy dead so dont kill mm's anymore,plz remove the 3 per 15 sec cap -feast of corruption-i never see anyone use it lol-add some dmg or life steal plz,or reduce enegry cost -insidious parasite-nerf!!!!its spammable and kills any melee in any pvp situation,increase life steal and increase recharge to balance -***minion update***-after the intro of hm,mm's are much much much less common-considering minions insta die from wandings in hm lol...and with low soul reap=no minions,bump their lvl or armor up a few plz -order of undeath-kinda untouched by everyone,bump up dmg a bit maybe? -decapitate-lose all adrenaline+energy for 10 dmg extra over eviscarate......add extra dmg or bleed or low timed dazded to balance it and make it funcition as skill name describes. +well those are a few suggestions i have,ill add more once i remember them,still got some in need of updates more than above,see what ya think izzy.63.135.78.26 20:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, the recent changes were ok, but I'd love to see some changes to those underpowered skills. The community has been asking for it long enough. It is Anet's chance to show that they care about their customers. Nicky Silverstar 20:50, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

How does a skill get better from a recharge nerf? — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 20:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Also, SR is still overpowered, water trident is awesome, glimmer is used in HA, minions are kickass, and fox fangs has a 1/2 cast activation time. — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 20:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Elemental flame have been gay since it was released, so have vengaence, this proves in one

way or another that they do care. still no nerf on mirrored stance tho, izzy plx stop mirrorway in gvg its too strong :( --Cursed Angel 20:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Totally aggre on the decapitate change,SR is not over powered,if your minion army gets raped in sf or sh like every person or npc has in their bar now-er-days u cant bring em back without that energy gain fully,the SR nerf was to stop sway,sway is dead,plz revert sr now,and burnign speed......lol cant stop laughing when i see that word.Snipey lizard 21:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I must admit that I find the changes to the Elementalist minimal at best. I would have loved to see some changes to a few underpowered skills, like Burning Speed, but also to Churning Earth, the weakness chain and/or Stone Sheath. Still, I trust Anet knows best. But again I request a boost/change to some underpowered skills. I am getting annoyed by the warriors shouting that elementalists should do nothing but support them. That sounds like men treated women 50 years ago. Nicky Silverstar 21:22, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Where do eles do nothing but support warriors? — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 21:43, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Lolzers. I suppose it's just ironic that most Elementalists in the game are females. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 21:44, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the update Izzy. I love all the changes. 134.154.250.238 22:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Wtf is with all the PvE people making stupid comments? Since wen have eles buffed warriors? Wtf is going on here??

PvE scrubs behind this line plz | PvP scrubs over here plz | Izzy <3 over here |
NOW NERF ASSCASTERS TO THE GROUND! 24.141.45.72 03:06, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

That's already been done. 69.137.78.47 04:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

So I'm a PvE noob huh? It has been stated many times, even in the thread above this one:

Physicals are supposed to do all the heavy damage in a group. The only time a caster should be able to do a good chunk of damage is to a frenzied warrior...

and I'm getting sick of it. In PvP, Elementalists can be more than flag runners, snare bots, blind bots or warders, but the majority of the melee fighters would rather see us do these menial tasks than to deal with us on an equal level. People cry that blocking must be nerfed because their precious hulks deal less damage. They want Blinding Surge nerfed, even though it isn't that powerful (only against them). People even cry that a Fire Elementalist (of all things) deals too much damage, even though that's all Fire was ever meant to do. It is a conspiracy. How do I know that it's a conspiracy? I've got portals buddy. I know stuff. Nicky Silverstar 08:14, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

This update failed at addressing every issue in pvp. With Expertise, Magebane costs 5 instead of 3 now. Not a change. Of the 35 skills changed in this update, 0 of them were good.

Izzy, when you actually logon to your wiki next year, read what people have to say. The amount of failure dripping off this balance is unbearable. Statistically, you should have gotton at least 1 change right, but still couldn't. Do your job or quit it. 72.235.48.41 22:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The update was very good improving weak skills. And Magebane will be harder to use now for sure 5 energy is a lot different than 3 energy. Rangers only have 3 pips of regen that means 1 energy per second Magebane recharges in 5 seconds so you can use 1 Magebane every 5 seconds but if you add a Savage Shot or Distracting Shot in between then eventually the Ranger will run out of energy or have to wait a while before shooting again. Magebane still might need some more nerfage in terms of the disable duration I'd like to see it tied to an attribute (marksmanship).

Also I think there will be more skill updates coming along with the Taiwan/Japan access update. Maybe these are only half the updates ArenaNet is working on. 70.132.2.120 22:28, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Don't forget that Magebane Shot is still an elite skill, so it shouldn't really be compared to non-elite interrupts. I think it only needed a smal nerf, and this seems ok to me (remember how people wanted to nerf blockway? This is a very nice way of doing so, better than nerfing IMO). As for more updates on the way, I sure hope that's true. I like some of these updates, but it feels to me more can and should be done. Don't take my comments too personal though, like the above ones, they're just my opinions. I don't mean any harm by them. Nicky Silverstar 07:54, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Nicky, I'll warn you once: Don't underestimate how many magebanes fly around in TA. It's shocking if you're unprepared for it.

That said, you still won't have energy problems with it any more than you will with cripshot - and magebane is arguable far more powerful than cripshot. I'd argue for a recharge nerf on top of the energy nerf. -- Armond Warblade 09:31, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

That may be true, but the only real advantage that Magebane Shot has over Punishing Shot and Savage Shot at this point is the fact that it is unblockable. The disable is annoying but doesn't last too long. Whatever a player can accomplish now with Magebane Shot, he can also accomplish with Punishing Shot and/or Savage Shot, unless you bring a lot of blocking. Magebane Shot can still be countered easily by blindness and/or Blurred Vision. Basically, what I'm trying to say is, that Magebane Shot may have made interrupting a lot more popular, which may be where the problem comes from. By itself, it is not much more powerful than any other form of interrupt (I agree than 5 energy was a bit too cheap though). IMHO of course. Nicky Silverstar 14:48, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Nicky...just stop posting. Never once have I seen you say something worth taking note of. If we ever need a Flare Ranger's opinion, I will be the first to contact you. As usual, IWAY was not nerfed (ZoS almost R7 yet?), and Izzy fails at his job. VoD changes are baed. Hexway is back, might want to take a look at that. O, and fail less. Thanks. --Readem 06:15, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Readem, if you honestly think that skills with the same costs, recharge and effect cannot replace each other, then you're the one who's wrong. But then again, you never come with arguments, which is a clear indication of your intelligence level. Now, prove me wrong by replying with an actual argument for a change. Nicky Silverstar 08:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Wow, you truly fail. Stop being bad, and accept reality:

• You mention Punishing Shot. This isn't PvE. Bad skills don't replace good ones, just fyi.
• You don't actually play the game. RA doesn't make you good; at all. Stop talking as if you GvG on a regular basis. You don't even know what the fuck "Block-way" is. Stop acting as if you do.
• Your in-game knowledge is mediocre at best. Usually you just come across as "another bad person who plays GW", and who reads wiki way the fuck too much.
• You think Elementalists should have higher DPS. I don't know how many times I have to tell you that fucking fails. Caster-spikes are gay. Maybe Ruby Djinn's don't bother you, but I would rather not be spiked by 3 SF eles and telespike. No thanks. Not fun.
• How the fuck is burning speed ever going to be good? o, I'll just replace WoW on my Rt, so he can degen archers to death. gg.
• Instead of massaging Izzy's epeen for epic battle, how about you play the game? Get wolf, so at least you can tease Wiki people for being bad. Then I can laugh at you, for HAing. Will be lulz.
• Also, "IMHO" <--- for stuck-up nubs who are bad at the game

--Readem 23:46, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

readem 9001 points - Nicky the flare ranger 0 points --Cursed Angel 23:52, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Readem. RA is part of the game. RA is a form of PvP. This is a pvp balance talk page. Why is talking about RA not allowed in your imaginary world? Arguments from an RA perspective are as legitimate as arguments from a GvG perspective. Honestly readem, you have to ditch the "My e-peen is bigger than yours" attitude. It stops being funny once you get to high school. Shard 00:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I hurt your feelings Shard. My "imaginary world" prevented me from seeing much skill is needed to RA. And yes, apologize for my abnormally large epeen. Was born with it. Sorry. Oh, and shard, please ditch the "im good, but im not" attitude. Really confuses the bad people. --Readem 04:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

P.S. DONT STEAL MY BUILD NUBS --Readem 04:57, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I knew you couldn't come up with any real arguments Readem. All you can do is trash people. I feel sorry for the people who actually listen to you. Nicky Silverstar 08:47, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, stop flaming eachother. -- Gordon Ecker 08:53, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I apologize for the flaming itself. Nicky Silverstar 08:55, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Few things here,first of all if u all spend this much time argueing over skills in a game,u all need fucking lives!!go in the god dam sunlight for once,second of all everyone is allowed to make comments on skills and shouldn't be trashing other people cause u got no fucking gf's or friends to talk to and your bored,third izzy is doing fine with the skill balancing,but still has alot of work to do(everything comes in time learn to wait),fourth if ya call people who ha noobs then u can go fuck yourself,ha is a title that requires a lot of work and shows u can actually pvp!,while ra shows u can get a few scrub wins by using a cookie cutter build of pvx,gvg is fine,but isnt very useful in the long run,ha title=emote+extra balthy point limit+rarest items in game+prestige+flashing emote makes people worship u, sooooo dont dis ha because u couldnt get your ass into a rankless randomway cause u suck.74.186.169.130 16:31, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

ur fail hurts my eyes --Cursed Angel 17:46, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

lolwut? I am done Nicky. You are clearly just too bad. Maybe a R2000 will let you paragon for them. --Readem 23:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

I had posted a reply here, but I'd like to withdraw it. And thank you for banning Izzy from his own talk page. It's posts like those of Readem that made Izzy stop listening to us. He is ruining the game for all of you, and he doesn't even play anymore himself. Think about that, next time you idolize him. Nicky Silverstar 09:49, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

What are you talking about Nicky? Izzy doesn't care about my opinion :/. Tbh, people such as yourself, drove Izzy away. Good people don't want to contribute to a wiki that fails, and reeks of badness (most don't want to contribute to Wiki's in-general, as they are gay). What do you think Izzy says to himself, when he sees "Eles dont do enuf dmhg IMHO". He probably fucking rages. Can't blame him. This place is so filled with terrible that even when valid contributions are made, they are so difficult to spot, that by the time they are properly identified, that build has been raping for ages. Luckily for him, no one worth mentioning really contributes to this site, so he can just say "Fuck this shit, got better things to do and see". If I were Izzy, I would probably do the same. Also, what the fuck does this mean, "he doesn't even play anymore himself"? I just called in HA an hour ago, or maybe I am just on acid. Dunno. You tell me. --Readem 02:56, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

+1 for Readem. Izzy puts up with a load of shit, and tries to look for the one good contribution in that load of shit, to no avail. We can bitch too him about "IZZY IS TEH PH4ILZ0RS", but he's one person and does the job to the best of his ability, and does a respectable job of it. And Readem, at times I've held this notion that you're on acid, but that rant just proved your sanity. Sobriety ftw. Cheers, Calor (t) 03:06, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Seriously, I can't decide what's most pathetic. The fact you're arguing about something this stupid, the fact you're arguing in a stupid way, or the fact you're doing it on someone else's talk-page. Would you also e-mail Izzy and keep arguing? Now please, for the love of all that contains sugar, stop this silly argument now. It isn't doing any good to anyone, it certainly isn't entertaining, it's merely pathetic. If you really want to argue, go do it somewhere else. I heard facebook is the new "spot". — Galil 03:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I heard giving advice on Wiki was gay. I still do it, because I don't give a shit. Playing an online game over the age of 16 is pretty pathetic. But I still do it, because I get bored. This is just another shit argument to pass the time. --Readem 03:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, to end this discussion: you win. Apperantly, calling a person an epic failure on his own talk page several times isn't the reason he leaves, it is people who aperantly suck at the game, but at least try to help. I won't bother you guys anymore, this is my last post on Izzy's talk page. I hope that this makes the game better or at least makes you and your posse happy. Nicky Silverstar 08:13, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

WOOOT, Thx readem. Lol and nicky if you read this, warriors do do the main part in a spike, last i checked eviscerat + executioners = win. Learn to run balanced in PvP (not thats not PvE its PvP) 24.141.45.72 15:05, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

No, readem, immature kids like you are the reason izzy doesn't read his page anymore. It has nothing to do with how good/bad players are. Nicky being good/bad doesn't change how broken skills in this game are.

Telling izzy how much he fails at balancing the game is fine, but only if you post a suggestion or feedback. Imagine yourself ten years older, would you rather trust the guy who had a decently constructed argument, or the little kid who says "lol you fail?" Grow up. Everyone's tired of hearing the same baseless middle-school-quality insults. The only people that idolize you are other twelve-year-olds. 72.235.48.41 22:39, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Wait, I want to put my signature on that so you don't have to type an IP when you make a bad comeback. Shard 22:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I think the reason Nicky is so pissed of at the 'eles are just support' quote is because, in ALL OF THE MANUALS AND SOURCES of GW, eles are described as nukers, dmg dealers, spikers etc, but in reality, they are jsut anouther midline. I think what needs to happen is either:

Anets officially states that eles are meant for support and the whole fire line is just a joke, Or eles recieve some serious boosts (not gonna happen)

To all the experienced pvpers here, I ask you: Did you remember yourselves screaming "OMG SF is IMBA!!" when NF came out? I know I did, HA maps were crowded enough and starbursting was a tiresome gimmick. But all the pver community was happy: Eles weer meant to do damage, and they got means! Yay? But PvP triumphed, ya da ya da, and we know what happened, anet ended up giving us nerfs and buffs and pve skills... but eles still suck dmg wise in actual pvp. It is too easily stopped, too easily countered, too easily pressured, and it is FAR too costly. The point here is that Anet needs to drop this bullshit illusion that eles = Nukers. no, we are not. I remember defending this whole topic back when prod spammers ruled. It's not happening. Izzy, just say that Eles suck, and fire line is a joke. We casuals prefer an honest answer, instead of bull that is in the manuals.

Update

You could have not done it, but you did. I ow you many thanks for this update. Yseron - 90.14.226.52 11:01, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

plz smiting

I could QQ somewhere else like on ur lame-monk-skills page which I guess u set up so u wouldn't have to watch all the whining, but I'd like to bring it to ur attention once again. Do something about it, its the most worthless fcked up skills ever made, only low damage and like +30 damage if the target is attacking, for what? The elites are worthless, the nightfall ones are worst, the only few skills that work is like Reversal of Damage, Scourge Healing and Smite Hex, theres no fcking damage or anything except lameness, plz do something about it if u care --Cursed Angel 11:24, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Smithing skills are 100%ap dmg,thats the catch,so if u use signet of judgement on a 200armor lvl target,u do maximum dmg despite the armor.and smithing has alot of excellent skills,stonesoul strike,bane signet,banish,soj(sig),soj(enchant),holy wrath,retribution,they all pawn.74.186.169.130 16:27, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Smiting isn't too terrible, it has it's uses in both PvP and PvE — Skadiddly[슴Mc슴]Diddles 16:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I love the way there are people complaining that smiting is terrible, and that it is overpowered on the same page. 69.137.78.47 16:45, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

yah but its never the main attribute, i can't do enough damage with smiting compared to whatever like what i tried out last, a shatterstone ele. Just created a monk and im already tired of the lack of damage and long recharge. Smiting has become a useless support attribute, and i hate supporting others in pvp. tbh stonesoul fails and so does retribution and soj in pvp, the scourge hexes is awsome before a spike tho but smiting remains useless --Cursed Angel 16:57, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

A monk has three main attributes - healing, protting and smiting. If you dislike supporting others, you will find no use in the other two lines. So imho a monk is not the best character for you. Der moon 20:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Had a winning streak of 26 wins (Team Arena) with a team template that included no less than 10 different smiting prayer skills, today. :) - TeleTeddy 22:13, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Thing is, Smiting has some useful skills, but it has load of useless skills, Smite, Word of Censure, Banish, Balthazar's Pendulum, Spear of Light, Symbol of Wrath and on and on. Antiarchangel 23:12, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Although I rarely support people who make retarded rant posts like this, I have to agree with Cursed Angel. Smiting is a terrible attribute. Its only use is 55 farming. The only smiting skills I've ever seen in high-end PvP are Judge's Insight and Strength of Honor to pump up already overpowered dervishes, and occasionally Smite Hex.

Izzy has too much to work on, such as fixing the broken **** he screwed up when Nightfall came out, and everything he's done to the game since then. Izzy's idea of "addressing an issue" is to change the cost/recharge of ONE skill in the build. HINT: Most builds that get copied have more than one skill in the 64 slots. Paraway / Spiritway / Telespiking Dervishes aren't good because "Wearying's recharge needed to be upped to 6 instead of 4." They were good because 50% of the skills in those builds are broken up to their eyeballs. I know you have zero balance experience in the field, but please listen to some of the people on the forums and your wiki. They actually play Guild Wars, so they know how things work in game. You spent 8 hours a day for 3 months working on the last update, and this bull**** is the best you can come up with? Fix something next time. I know 12-year-olds who could balance a game better than you. Shard 07:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

He's right, and it's only reinforced by the +1337 characters he made with that post. -- Armond Warblade 08:31, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

• buffs warriors with SoH* (oh and ure saying there arent useless prot and healing prayers skills?) 24.141.45.72 01:59, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

There are useless prot and healing skills Mending, Protective Bond and more I don't feel like typing out. But we're talking about smiting, which has alot more useless skills. Antiarchangel 14:28, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Mending is not useless. How many 55's do you see not using mending? 69.137.78.47 04:07, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Smart ones with Mystic Regeneration. --Deathwing 04:40, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Mending's got it's uses, and it's balanced just fine as it is; trade of Energy regeneration for Health regeneration, some people like that. You need to look at some of the really unused skills if you want a good example; I really can't find anything completely useless in Prot. or Healing... Smiting's the topic, and obviously has a lot of issues in it.

Smiting's a tough thing to balance... You don't want anyone being too good at both healing and damage, and with anyone able to simply go 12-12 in Healing and Smiting, you've got to make one of them make up for the other. I can't think of any one way to make Smiting more effective without making Monks in general more powerful then they already are... -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 05:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Shove Spike is already lame. Doesn't need a buff. --Readem 06:16, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

srsly Shove Spike? Anyway smiting needs to be buffed without creating teams with only monks which can both heal and cause damage. Adding conditional effects to the lamest skills or adding conditions. Making Ray of Judgment causing Burning to all foes, decreasing the energy cost on Balthazar's Aura, Make Balthazar's Pendulum become an elite version of Reversal of Damage, a short enchantment that triggers on next attack and the attacking foe is knocked down and takes damage equal to Shield of Judgment. Smiting needs a damage skill with low recharge, Banish is perfect for that but the recharge is too long. Add effects like the one Ray of Judgment have that disable all skills except smiting skills, that would create less smiting teams and maybe help people only use smiting for 1 vs 1 damage. --Cursed Angel 10:49, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Balthazar's Aura is good as is, it provides good energy with AI. Lord Belar 22:12, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

When did the need for a DPS monk arise? 1v1 Damage suddenly = good? Wtf. --Readem 05:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Readem's got a point. Monks never were and never should be about DPS. Smiting does other things well; supporting roles. I think it just needs some of those roles strengthed, and have the damage just be a bonus thing. You rarely use Signet of Judgment purely for the damage; the KD is the most important part. I'd like to think Bane Signet is similar. Reversal of Fortune prevents damage, and punishes the attacker as a bonus. Things like Spear of Light and Banish don't have any support properties, and they're focused on a non-Monk focus; purely damage. They suffer from that. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 07:36, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

IMO, Smiting should have - from the initial release - been a support class like Protection but with less emphasis on denying damage more than transitioning it into offense. If you look at skills like Reversal of Damage, Smite Condition, Smite Hex, Judge's Intervention and even Balthazar's Pendulum, those are the kind of skills that Smiting SHOULD have been. If you've ever run the "smitector" build, you know that it can't protect as well as protection, it can't heal as well as healing (even with smiter's boon and divine boon) but it is a pretty good support class, because it can really even out the amount of damage an offense heavy team deals against you while also providing an added amount of defense for your own team. It's an excellent support combination. Unfortunately, smiting doesn't have enough skills to make the smitector build powerful or efficient enough for it to enter the meta. --Reklaw 23:15, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Splinter Shot Request

Izzy I've been looking at skills lately and ive noticed this skill Splinter Shot (Destroyer of Hordes) Splinter Shot (Destroyer of Hordes). I have a simple question. Why isnt this skill usable by the player? It looks like a great skill that really isnt over powered. Maybe it would need a little tweaking so u cant mass poison with it, but besides that it looks like a really nice skill for rangers. I have a simple request, make the skill usable by players, even then make it pve only if you dont want it to disrupt pvp. --Lou-Saydus 23:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Just change the current (bad) splinter shot to that one. Lord Belar 23:16, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Sort of like a[nother] non-Elite Barrage... but without the possibly overpowered interactions. Only hits the other guys if it hits the main target, doesn't count as three attacks so it's only triggering stuff like Splinter Weapon once, the extra hits aren't really arrows, so it doesn't trigger Glass Arrows multiple times... I would love to see the old Splinter Shot get changed to this, hell, it's not even a big change to make to the skill. Nobody who hasn't seen this PvE skill would even notice that it was more then a slight functionality change, and it would make Splinter Shot actually useful... not "staple this to my bar" useful, but "I think I'll use that every so often" useful. Pretty please? :P -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 05:32, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Izzy hasn't read his wiki in almost 3 months. Don't count on a change anytime soon. Shard 00:49, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

He hasn't replied in almost 3 months. We have no way of knowing whether hes reading it or not. 69.137.78.47 01:30, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

He's obviously reading wiki if you've read the discussion on the last two updates. someone started crying about fear me in iway, and it got nerfed a few days later. --Lou-Saydus 17:35, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

People have been crying about Fear Me in IWAY since it came out. 69.137.78.47 20:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

copied from archive8

Skills w/ no activation time

Are they supposed to be able to activate while using another skill? Or is this a bug that they can't be used when your character is already doing something?--MP47 (talk) 00:38, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

To elaborate, Shield Bash can be activated while using say Healing Signet but Burning Shield and Feral Aggression (which are also skills w/ no activation time) can not. Which was intented? --Shadowcrest 01:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, skills such as Signet of Mystic Speed will stop you dead in your tracks upon activation, as though it really had an activation time. If you press forward just as you activate it, you can nullify the pause, but still, it seems like a strange way for it to work. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 01:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It should be seamless, but GW is bad in ways more then one sadly. --Readem 23:11, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

C+Space+Signet of Mystic Speed gives you no pause in movement at all :) BlazeRick 07:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I suspect that the SoMS was intentional, to keep from making it too good for running. Lord Belar 22:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

So, you think the 0.1 seconds it stops you for prevents it from being "too good for running?" Having 16.9 seconds of running time instead of 17 makes it a bad skill? Shard 09:25, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I think it's just an oversight, I'm under the impression that a skill with a cast time set to zero has to also then be flagged as a skill which can be activated at any time. Whoever wrote the skills appears to have forogtten about the latter for these mentioned skills. --Ckal Ktak 13:26, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

It seems that, by default, a skill with no activation time activates instantly, but cannot be activated in the middle of another action. The exceptions are attack skills, which activate at the same speed as regular attacks, stances, which can be activated at any time, and most "basic" skills (skills without any subtype), which can likewise be activated at any time (with a few exceptions, such as Burning Shield and Feral Aggression). -- Gordon Ecker 02:47, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

SoMS does that because its a signet (same with Dolyak). This question refers specifically to skills with no activation time, since Marco and I can't resolve an argument about whether to put a bug tag on Feral Aggression or not. </endquote>

Any response? --Shadowcrest 23:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Does it matter? --Readem 04:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

/agree 24.141.45.72 15:07, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Frankly I don't see the harm in asking a question that would take all of 30 seconds to answer. --Shadowcrest 01:09, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Except you won't get an answer? User talk:Gaile Gray/Archive Chit Chat and Miscellaneous/Jan - Feb 208#Izzy. — Galil 23:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Why concerned about Ranger Spikes?

The only reason why you see so many ranger spikes in game is because of the opposing team using Elementalist spikes. Rangers are the only real class that has any type of defense against elemental damage other than mesmers (with a stance), but necromancers, assassins, ritaulist, and paragons have no defense against elemental damage whatsoever unless they play mesmer secondaries which even than limits the builds that they have available. All the time you see a group of elementalist casting the same fire spells over again and using the same elite which is Searing Flames and even with protective bond and extinquishing the fire out, it is still not enough to stop the incredible high amounts of damage and extremely powerful burning duration that is equivalent to the necromancer elite Life Transfer (and yes ward against harm offers too low of fire resistance to effectively stop the spike and even frigid armor requires to many points invested into water magic to affectively last out the duration)and so for the other team to have an affective chance against them they are forced to use rangers. You hardly ever see Water,air, or earth elementalist in pvp as much as the same fire elementalist spamming the same fire skills over and over so instead of constantly nerfing rangers and looking at them as the problem, why not look at why players spike with them so much. The reason why is that they are the only affective class at stopping fire elementalist spikes. If a lot of the fire elementalist skills had a longer casting time and made Searing Flames have a two second casting time you will see a lot less ranger spikes because hexes, life stealing, assassins, dervishes, and paragons can tear though rangers with ease. All I'm saying is that to look into why so many teams are ranger spiking and how changing the casting time and recharge time of some of the fire elementalist skills can affectively remove ranger spiking from the game due to other classes being used instead.Highway Man 08:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think anyone is against rangerspike, but your reasoning here is pretty far off. People use rangerspike because it is high damage, quick recharge, and easy to do. Also, water elementalists are common in HA, and air elementalists (blindbots) used to be very common in GvG. In the past few months they've mostly died out. But as for people using rspike because of its armor against fire, that isn't true at all. 69.137.78.47 09:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Ele spikes have been out of the arc for ages, and even then it wasn't fire based, it was Air. SF teams are very easily managable against by a simple application of spacing, since one monk can easily sustain a single person being SFed repeatedly, and be much more efficient with the energy he needs to use doing so. Ranger spikes are something of a problem simply because they are the type of spike with the least amount of warning, they have the greatest range, quickest activation (most caster spike spells have 2 second activation) and no real indicator of who is going to be hit (you can at least see warriors and dervs moving towards their target), spearspike is similar, and is thus also discouraged. --Ckal Ktak 15:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Tbh, you're talking about countering Elemental dmg spikes with Protective Bond. You're talking about Ward Against Harm not being effective vs Elemental dmg. You're talking about countering Elemental spikes with Mantra of Fire. You're talking about countering Searing Flames with Extinguish. You're talking about Life Transfer being effective. In short... What the hell are you talking about? Elemental dmg-ed spikes are not because there is less defense against fire. Ranger spikes are not to counter Elemental dmg. You use an infuser and pre-protting to counter any spike. Elemental spikes=/=the reason that people choose to be a Ranger... :| BlazeRick 21:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

BlazeRick is correct here, while it might seem a bit harsh, your arguments aren't valid due to a systematic lack of understanding of the intricacies of organized PvP and relative merits/drawbacks of skills. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 09:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

hb capway

godammit, git rid of fucking capway in HB. It is boring shit and a waste of time. You run around doing nuthing for 10 minutes to win or lose by like 10-9 or 11-8 or some dumb shit like that. Its godamn gay. Lose shadow-steps in HB (SP, SHADOW MELD (yes CAPS lock)) and do something about this fucking capway, boring shit. 24.141.45.72 04:00, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The ratio of swears to normal English words in that sentence is alarmingly high, and amazingly unnecessary. Isn't the point of shrines to cap them, though, not run around them and gank the nearest squishy? If you want mobbing to your heart's content, try AB, or any no-shrine PvP. Calor (t) 04:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem here is that you end up doing doing nothing but capping shrines. For example currently a very good strategy in HB is to use a cripshot ranger with two monks and a Melandru's Resilience W/R tank and constantly cripple the entire opposing team to outcap them. Monks simply use shadow stepping skills to control more shrines. Assassins both use shadow stepping and snares and of course are unrivaled when it comes to ganking their opponents, which is the reason they completely dominate HB. Even assassins now start to focus heavily on using defensive builds, using two monks (WoH + SoR) and a Preservation/Warmonger Rt. While shadow stepping is a significant problem and could use a global nerf in HB, you can't exactly nerf cripshot. The morale meter mechanic needs to be overhauled or removed completely: you simply shouldn't be able to get points without killing anything. Furthermore you shouldn't be forced to split your team 2-1-1 across the entire map (GW isn't even balanced for 4v4, let alone 1v1 or 2v2). Currently every single working build in HB is a gimmmick that simply can't be countered by anything resembling a "balanced" builds. This isn't a problem that can be solved easily and unfortunately I'm not sure if Anet is still planning to change anything about HB at this point. --Draikin 14:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

The difference between GvG shrines and HB shrines is basically the fact that you can win by utilizing them without ever making a kill. In GvG, they accessorize your efforts, while in HB, they ARE your effort. Removing point gain from the shrines is the only way to remedy this. Nerfing shadow stepping, cripshot, or whatever else will ultimately do nothing. Why exactly shrines even give points in HBs I'm not sure. It's as though they're there to balance 4v4 combat, although what they're supposedly preventing I have no idea. AB is similar in that the focus is on shrines, and indeed, there are some games in which I will NEVER fight a human opponent - only NPCs guarding the shrines. However, the main difference is coordination. AB is full of human players that have no interest in winning, only in mobbing or ganking shrine runners to make themselves feel good. Heroes have no such failing, and so you get games of cat and mouse with no real fun factor involved.

If Izzy really wants to fix HBs (he doesn't, IMO), he needs to realize the problem is not in skills, but the game mechanics of how points are scored. Is the objective to hold shrines, or is it to defeat the opposing team? Many games would play out exactly the same if there was no enemy presence whatsoever, and shrines simply degenerated their capture level to 0. It becomes a tedious micro-management game rather than PvP. This is HB's failing. Remove the focus on shrines. Make the shrine bonuses give +X points towards kills in addition to their effects, or cause active battle effects that are without effect without actually engaging the enemy.

I, personally, unlike many people, really enjoyed the HB maps when they were in RA and TA for that short amount of time. Of course, I have UaX and couldn't care any less about Gladiator Points, so I didn't mind how incredibly long the matches took. On their own, they were fun with HUMAN players that lacked the organization to capitalize off of the poor shrine-oriented gameplay. Imagine if you randomly integrated RA and TA maps into HBs. Players with heroes that are made to cap shrines would basically be broken, and their teams left to do nothing but grief and kite. Even something that small would go a long way to breaking the (honestly) foolish method of how Hero Battles were so poorly designed. Of course, you won't ever see anything of the sort, since development on GW2 is underway. --Reklaw 22:04, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps a boost to the shrine effects, and a removal of morale... or maybe have morale gain only come from the center shrine (make that sort of a King of the Hill effect, more people in the center equals more morale for either team). Giving both players a single point on the map to control forces conflict; people could run holding builds or whatever they like, wouldn't help them get the opponent off the center.

The reason I say make it King of the Hill type effect is, making it a single-shrine morale system would mean first guy to cap it with a defensive build wins (they cap, the other team can't gain points now, and it would be nearly impossible to cap it back). A system that encourages fighting in the center would be pretty fun; with the other shrines holding strong in-battle effects (Mending for the team, Siege shrine, all those are already there). Not speaking from much experience here, but it's an idea. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 22:43, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the RA/TA maps would make much difference. You'd get rid the defensive cripshot and monk teams but most of the assassin builds would still be viable 4v4 and more importantly it wouldn't introduce new balanced builds either since they'd be completely destroyed on shrine maps anyway. Reklaw, I completely agree with your opinion on the morale meter mechanic, although I do believe shadow stepping would have to be nerfed in Hero Battles even without the morale meter. Skills like SP/Return are always going to be a must have especially on maps like The Crossing and Bombardment, something needs to be done about that (if possible the actual traveling distance of all shadow stepping skills should be limited).

Jioruji, in the original version of Hero Battles the Center Shrine was in fact the only one giving morale points. What happened was that holding builds simply occupied the center with three heroes, while the player (often anchored to his team with Recall) simply capped the NPC shrine (keep in mind that the NPC counts as a member of the team, allowing you to cap the center back 5v4). The holding build often consisted of a (back then horribly overpowered) N/Rt spiritway team that simply destroyed your team if you left them alone. You could kill them 4v3 and ignore the NPC, but then the opponent would eventualy get more shrines and overpower you anyway. It basically suffered from the same problems as the current format, and instead of solving those problems Anet made them even worse by putting even more emphasis on splitting and shrine control. --Draikin 23:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

I wonder if a simple "Team Arenas with Heroes" system would work at all? Seems like a lot of the problems with shrines are the fact that there's shrines. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 03:21, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not exactly the shrines but rather the morale meter that caused the problems. If the shrines didn't give points there simply wouldn't be any way for defensive runner/holding builds to win. --Draikin 22:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

That's kind of the idea. The shrines should exist to buff fighters, not to be god hills where a team can spend starry nights staring out into space, sharing good times and making fond memories while the other team has to lay siege for a week on a flag on a stick. --Reklaw 20:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

TA with heroes is the best idea so far. It is easy to implement, uncomplicated, and a tried and true system.

Tbh, that sounds gay. --Readem 02:12, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Yet again i find myself agreeing with this guy, TA with heroes wtf?! please! do you really want to go face 4 monks running a perfectly macro'd spike every match? didnt think so! Reduce the cap rate would help, or even increasing time between reses, so teams can actually kill and then capitalise on their kills by capping while opponents are dead...i obviously havent really thought these through much but still are better than TA with heroes! i mean come on! --ChronicinabilitY 04:22, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

How about mixing the current shrine maps with some shrinless maps? That way, teams that focus on either fighting or capping will be at a disadvantage when they fight on the other type, while balanced teams will be able to do both. Nicky Silverstar 07:56, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Just having some normal maps mixed in with the shrine ones? "Speedbump" maps if you will, just to make holding builds slightly less effective... although the problem there being, would that really deter a defensive team? I've run into holding builds in TA before, and they're just as annoying in that scenario... they really can't win unless you quit, but it's prohibitively hard to beat them yourself either.

Eh, here's an idea. Turn HB into Dragon Arena (with heroes). That'll stop those pesky defensive builds. -- Jïörüjï Ðērākō.>.cнаt^ 09:20, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Any solution that doesn't involve changing the way the morale meter works is going to end up failing since it's that mechanic that has caused most of the problems in HB. Simply adding other maps with different objectives isn't going to repair the current maps. The only question is if Anet is actually going to change anything about HB anymore. The last time Izzy talked about changes for HB was more than 3 months ago, and after that the only thing I've heard from Anet was that there are "currently no plans to update HB". --Draikin 13:57, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

TA with heroes idea is a solid idea because a "four monk team" would never happen. It doesn't in TA, it won't happen here. hero controls also prohibit long wars of attrition, since a player can micro for only so much. TA with heroes is the most clean-cut idea. TBH I don't see the 'mixed maps' idea bad, it's just that people can keep running defensive builds, but that's just my opinion. mixed maps is also good, either that or just TA. TA might be simpler, and shrines are always gay.

4 monk teams dont happen in TA ?....Have you even been to TA recently?! --ChronicinabilitY 22:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

3 monk =/= 4 monk. --71.229.204.25 22:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

You lose to shovespike, you deserve to die, tbh. Besides, heroes can't micro spikes effectively, at least to my experience. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:78.176.238.20 (talk).

SoM

Wow sig of midnight is so gay in 4v4 now nerf it back to unuse 24.141.45.72 02:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Monks have condition removal...3 second condition removal in fact. Signet of midnight is 10 second recharge...--The Gates Assassin 04:40, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Good Monks bring draw in 4v4. --Readem 04:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

even echo mending is overpowered in 4v4 orly 05:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Atta boy!

Excellent job with the last update. You deserve a bone.

WOW. Other than the fact that you forgot to reduce Power Leak's cost from 10 to 5 I say this update is pure win. *thumbs up* Done25 23:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, good job adjusting a lot of stuff. On the downside, I really don't think any builds are going to change much at all. The meta will remain the same, except now people will probably bring a BiP instead of a BSurge. That's something that Blood And Chains [Goth] was already doing, and they showed it already worked great, but that might just be because they had so many people healing that they could pump out heals like no tomorrow as long as they had the energy. I'd really like to see some of the useless skills get buffed. You can sign onto just about any class, hit K, and go down the list and about half the skills there will never be used. 69.137.78.47 23:53, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

He did buff some useless skills. (Touch of Agony) Done25 00:29, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

We beta goth in under 6 minutes... they suck hard 24.141.45.72 18:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Done, he improves skills that people generally dont use in hopes that people will use them. — ク Eloc 貢 01:36, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Less bad, more win!

NPA violation removed Readem]] 01:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Once again Readem fails... -- Armond Warblade 01:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

And then people wonder why Izzy stopped responding to his talk page.... — Galil 01:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Because he doesn't like being told he sucks? --71.229.204.25 01:30, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I am amazed Readem has not been banned yet given his general aditude. Done25 01:43, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Oh, he has. — Galil 01:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Funny thing is, he's mostly right. --71.229.204.25 01:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Dosen't matter if he is right or not. He dosen't have the right to be an ass. Done25 02:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

If someone's failing balls at a job they're being paid to do and you're suffering because of it, I think that yes, yes you do have the right to be an ass. --71.229.204.25 02:20, 7 February 2008 (UTC) "suffering" is a little strong, but I couldn't think of anything better off the top of my head.

No, nothing gives you the right to be an ass. Lord Belar 02:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of being an ass, get on GW2W and get banned with me for wtf? shenanigans. :D --71.229.204.25 02:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

NPA violation removed

This update was made of fail and AIDS. It's hard enough to be a Mesmer now. Thanks for letting the cancer grow, Izzy. /sarcasm TristanDark84 05:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd reply to Readem, but I'd probably get people on my talk page telling me not to flame him. Yes, that actually happened. ^^ As for the skill balance, I like it. I like any skill balance, because it tells me that Izzy still care about us, even if some people drive him away from his own talk page. Note to readem: I did not say that it was you and I did not say that it wasn't me, just in case you want to try and make me look bad again. Nicky Silverstar 07:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Next time you find proof that it was the people here that took him away from wiki instead of his work on GW2, drop me a note, would you? -- Armond Warblade 08:35, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I have already hired a Private Eye...Nicky Silverstar 10:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Armond likes eying privates. Do tell. -Auron 10:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a critical eye for things that intrigue me, though it has been known to wander in the past. Unfortunately for you, Auron, you have never fallen anywhere near its jurisdiction. -- Armond Warblade 10:47, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Ahahaha oh wow, that was great Readem. Ye, this update is very "wtf?!?". --Akaraxle 15:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Uhm...could someone explain the above comment please? Nicky Silverstar 15:44, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

"*laughing* Oh, how amusing, that was quite an interesting and funny post Readem. Despite your harsh words, I also think that this update makes you wonder what exactly the skill balancer might be taking while he's coming up with these changes!" <- Here you go my friend, glad to be of help to the Internet illiterates :) --Akaraxle 12:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

NPA violation removed--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:220.245.179.133 (talk).

What? Izzy's job isn't protecting solo farming, it's balancing the game. That means buffing underpowered skills, builds and professions and nerfing underpowered skills, builds and professions. Are you suggesting that solo farming builds are not by definition overpowered, or are you suggesting that Izzy shouldn't do his job, and that Guild Wars would be better if they left all the broken skills alone? -- Gordon Ecker 04:48, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Someone is just unhappy that their degenerate build no longer works so well Dargon 07:39, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't get what kind of farming build he was using that got nerfed. What kind of build tries to get more than 9 health regen out of Mystic Regeneration? Is that extra 1 pip enough to make or break a build? 69.137.78.47 10:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

The extra pips of regen cover the sometimes intense degen caused by various conditions and hexes. Imagine having bleeding, poison, disease, conjure phantasm, phantom pain and a few other skills like that all going at once. Having Mystic Regen technically giving you about +15 health regen went a long way to countering it all. Now, at lower levels, Mystic Regen is basically no better than Healing Breeze. --Reklaw 15:55, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Yet 55 builds were still viable when all they had available was healing breeze, so it's not as if it destroys the build. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:32, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Just a minor nuisance. It does make farming in certain areas nearly impossible now, though. --Reklaw 21:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Restful Breeze plus MR = 18 regen = more Colossal farming, if that's what you were talking about. --71.229.204.25 21:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Changes are always good, it help us to change and make evolve our way of playing. A change is always good, it gives some freshness when we're getting tired of repeating the sames builds. Moreover, as the job of the so called Izzy seems to be balancing the skills, it will so always be for the greater good. Like any change done, some egoistic kids will get pissed of about it. So what ? don't even listen to them, as soon as there is taunt, it's a kid crying, it has no interest. Izzy, keep doing your good work, and the new idea of 1 energy cost spells is so wonderfully refreshing, i was pleasently surprised. Changes are also called evolution, leaves the few who don't want to walk behind, gw is walking, and it's great. lussh 21:44, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

thought most of the skill balances were fine, and the npcs do seem to do a bit better about spreading out while they move to the stand. But the new vod changes are so, so bad. why does one need more of an advantage from having their npcs when they already have the obvious advantage of more npcs? Pluto 00:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Personally I am more annoyed with all the bad mouthing degenerate posts about skill balance which promote no intelligent discussion about the more recent skill balances than I am about the content of any of the recent skill balances. Where do people get the idea that this is acceptable behaviour? Ajax Baby Eater 22:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

And that is why this place is dead. If Izzy is to come back here we'll need the people in charge to be more bold in maintaining it, placing the potential value of the page(s) ahead of any vaucous notion of talk page sanctity. Perhaps a wiki wasn't the best place for something like this, because the site's custodians appear apathetic to its decay. (Registration Schmedgistration) 02:25, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

NPA violation removed —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.245.179.133 (talk • contribs) 03:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC).

Actually, this is why this place is dead. — Galil 05:08, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

hasty refrain

i know u wont read this, but hasty refrain is near impossible to keep up, plz extend duration 24.141.45.72 19:22, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

You want a usable free permanent speed boost for the party? Ok... --24.179.151.252 20:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Unremovable too. -- Armond Warblade 21:47, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

I was hoping to trick him into buffing it, but fine 24.141.45.72 02:05, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Izzy's not dumb... -- Armond Warblade 02:21, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Obviously you havent been looking at recent skill changes 24.141.45.72 18:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Mmm...polite answer. Nicky Silverstar 09:18, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Smerf Guilds

Tonight my guild played 6 matches. 5 of them were against smerfs of top 100 guilds. 4 of those 5 got us -3 rating. Please do something about all the smerf guilds. More often than not, we fight at least half top 100 smerfs every night. There's pretty much no way to go up every every guild between 1 and 300 are actually top 50 players that just keep losing against eachother. 69.137.78.47 04:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Smerf? — ク Eloc 貢 06:44, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Smurf. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 07:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

What is there that Izzy can do about it? Why does anything need to be done about it anyway? -- Armond Warblade 07:47, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to ANet's active encouragement of smurfing through the guesting system (probably to make it look as if more people play the game), even though ATs were - among other things - supposed to limit ladder smurfing. Yeah, conspiration theory, I know. --Akaraxle 08:40, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Run gimmicks if u fail at beating smurfs 24.141.45.72 18:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)