User talk:Regina Buenaobra/Archive Misplaced Topics/Jan 2009

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Funny stuff

I found (Link removed. Please do not link to potential scam sites or anything that could be a scam site.) quite funny, I think you folk at Arenanet might too. Misery 09:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

At first I thought it was a gag, but it looks like a scam. I doubt there have been any major MMORPGs released in the last decade that still store stats or handle damage client-side. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:06, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

At best it doesn't work and they scam you out of thirty bucks, at worst it's a keylogger/trojan used to steal accounts/credit card information. They also use a crapload of copyrighted images. It's showing up on advertising for a lot of GW related sites for me at the moment. Misery 10:16, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Funny how they say that Guild Wars or WoW stores the info client-side, when that's a blatant lie. I can install from scratch and log into my account, and all my info is there. Even Diablo 2 stored the info server-side for closed characters. -- Alaris 14:44, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It's not really a lie, he didn't mean all the data is stored on the client, just that certain values are, which is correct and not a lie at all, he just fails to mention that the same data is stored on the server and the server is a self-righteous prick and thinks it is right 100% of the time for security reasons. For example, his GW example shows he has 25,000 Health. Health and Energy is one of the few things the Guild Wars client "knows" (proof: through a smart maintained enchantment setup you can 100% of the time desynch your Energy, your client shows 1 thing, the server knows another, you can use /health to resynch the client and server.), so the client says he has 25k Health, but of course the server knows he has 500 or w/e. Useless, and there are free programs that could do the exact same thing as this. DarkNecrid 16:07, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

The server is right. And that program wouldn't work even if it tried, GW is simply not build to allow such blatantly easily-corrected security flaws. -- Alaris 17:13, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

There are many FREE programs that allow you to manipulate data client side. I tested it once (for the lulz) and set my fire eles fire magic to 999. I saw my rodgorts do about 20000 damage before GW crashed. 8D Secksy 17:55, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but did it insta-kill level 20 mobs? -- Alaris 18:35, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Well I can say I have a "friend." This "friend" once decided to use a packet tracer and see if he could make gold appear from thin air. While my "friend" had no problem making a multitude of gold appear client side, he was unable to drop/spend/trade said gold to anyone. Anet has very nice encryption on their packets, and my "friend" doubts that this program can do what it does on server side. You might get those numbers client side, but it most probably wouldnt work server side.--Ryudo 21:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

It is funny how the characters on top of the page are from completely irrelevant games. But yes, this is garbage -=-Koda Kumi 22:05, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Final Fantasy X was clearly an MMORPG =]]].. xD Nikdanbro 03:14, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

If they don't care about their customers potentially being scammed (or can't do anything about it), the myriad copyright violations on the site might interest them. Misery 19:04, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Although I just rechecked the link and it no longer works, how curious. Misery 19:04, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hey i have seen some scamming sites about gw gold, should i reprt theese sites to any1?--Simpaklimp 12:10, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Guild Wars 2 (2)

Can you give us some sort of estimation whether GW2 will be released at the end of 2009 or in 2013. Players waiting for the game don't like that you don't give us any information about it. You've said that there will be beta in 2008, a lot info in 2008 and game released at the end of 2009 or beginning of 2010. First two didn't happen so players are assuming it's going to be delayed, alot. Maybe you've a proper reason why not to give any info, maybe you don't. Give us at least some sort of estimation about the release, that shouldn't be against NDA I guess. 88.85.132.42 14:22, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Arena Net didn't tell us when Guild Wars 1 would be released until more or less 4 months before the release date. Before that, they didn't mention even the semester in which the game would be released. I wouldn't expect anything about the release, even if just an estimation, anytime soon. Which is fitting - even StarCraft 2, that has released plenty of information about the game, has yet to give players even an idea of when release will be. Erasculio 14:35, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Well I'm sure they know is it going to be released rather 2009 or 2013. Currently it just looks like it's going to delay. 88.85.132.42 16:50, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

As metioned in a topic above

• "GW2 never had a definate release date set. Also, Regina has stated that no GW2 info will be forthcoming until everything is good and ready, and at that time, we would know. — Wolf 21:31, 4 December 2008 (UTC)"
• "We are under NDA and cannot discuss the state of GW2 development. All I can really say is that GW2 is still in development. --Regina Buenaobra 18:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)"

Patience— Jon Lupen 18:55, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

At some point, they said that beta second half of 2008, game end of 2009 or beginning of 2010. That isn't so bad thing really, as they've already explained why there's no beta. But what everyone is worried about I guess, is that there wasn't any sort of information at 2008 eventho Gaile said that there will be a lot and 2008 will be exciting year. It would be smart from Anet, to give some sort of explanation why there wasn't any info, whether it's they don't want anything to be released or they don't have anything to release. 88.85.132.42 21:06, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I know it doesn't answer your question the way that you like, but see the above quote by Regina. — Jon Lupen 21:08, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Legally binding contracts are legally binding. You'd have better luck hanging around the rumour mill than asking ANet officials... Vili 23:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Regina has also mentioned that if Arena Net has anything they want us to know about Guild Wars 2, then we will know it. — Jon Lupen 01:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I look at the GW2 development process by comparing it to other games in development. For example, go look at the Aion gameplay videos. No really, go look. I'll wait. Okay. It's beautiful, right? Looks great! Now bear in mind that the GW developers brought us the most beautiful, graphically stunning MMORPG of its time. These same developers are watching Aion's development, too, and they're competitive as all hell. That means that, whatever state GW2 is in, it's going to be better looking than the best-looking game we can see right now. We know the gameplay is going to be a winner, because we're still playing GW after nearly 4 years despite its flaws, and the developers are taking all the best player suggestions in with everything they learned from creating and running GW. I'm okay with not getting info on GW2 yet. It's standard industry practice. But I look at the state of the genre, and think... GW2 is going to be even better. I can wait for it. -- MrSmiles 04:09, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I only hope that izzy will learn from his (and the current GW live team's) past mistakes - cultist fervor bug, Eye of the north (yes it's a big mistake in my opinion), hard mode, PvE skills, monster skills... - (note: theese are mistakes by my opinion) so GW2 will be balanced. Boro 07:19, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

NDA? (Non Disclosure Agreement). Besides, as hungry as I am myself about the future of gw2 and the needs of the community for info, teasers etc. I expect not everything will be according to everyones taste. (I hate polymock myself for instance). I think after all thats been said and done we can trust GW2 to be amazing and will comply to current standars and expectations? --Silverleaf Don't assume, Know! 12:38, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

We or Regina should make some kind of FAQ in which we reply to this. At least once a month someone comes to Regina's page asking about when will we get information about GW2. Having an article to link people so they see this point being addressed (and just this point, nothing else, or the information would be lost among other stuff) would save the community time from replying to this, and Regina from using her time to keep archiving these sections. Erasculio 12:47, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a good plan :). Ain't it done yet? --Silverleaf Don't assume, Know! 13:04, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

could regina at least tell us if we will hear anything about gw2 in 2009? dont need to tell what or exactly when, just IF. --92.235.60.31 02:53, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

That would still be in violation of the NDA. — Jon Lupen 04:33, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

What is the wording on the NDA? It is hard to know what can be disclosed, and what questions actually get an answer. It is also difficult to refrain from making generalizations which may cause a question to be too broad and thus fall under the NDA when that is not the actual goal of said question. Knowing the wording on the NDA (which I can certainly see not being released regardless) would help to refine questions and help convey an exact meaning. I can understand not wishing to release the NDA however it would help significantly. Kelvin Greyheart 14:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, revealing the NDA would be against the NDA's NDA. Erasculio 15:01, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Much like Fight Club. :-P --Regina Buenaobra 18:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, though, we have a very simple of knowing what the NDA allows Regina and the rest of Arena Net to tell us: what they have told us isn't part of the NDA, what they haven't told us is. They are not withelding information because they like to be poked about this once every 15 days, rather because withelding said information is the best course of action for the game. Erasculio 15:01, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I assumed that was the case, although I will not pretend to be happy with it. I also never meant to insinuate that information would be deliberately withheld for any reason. I have no wish to apply pressure here. Kelvin Greyheart 15:23, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I am eagerly awaiting more word on GW2 as is everyone else. My eagerness spawns a little more from recent ANET actions, withdrawing from E3, the demise of Tabula Rasa, and the economy in general. I know ANET isn't going away, but I worry for the game all of us here greatly enjoy. Regina's "It's still in development." is a good morale booster, its just still hard to wait for word on something we all are eagerly looking forward to just hearing more about, let alone playing when the time finally arrives. So for some, as long as you keep it civil, I see nothing wrong with asking every now and then. Kinda like "Throw a dog a bone here." Just 2 cents from a future Norn. Keep Developing! :) --Thorfinnr 21:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I understand that this NDA means you can say anything that isn't authorised by some executive/marketing suit somewhere. Can you go find that suit and dangle him out of the window till he authorises something that can be said? Sadie2k 23:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

They really should set a date to tell us some information. So we know information is coming in this quarter or month of XXX. Like an update on updates :). I mean it could just be we are still working on GW2, but at least people could expect/have some hope at least of getting something interesting. WE WANT HOPE!!!--129.21.213.43 23:35, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

A note on NDAs (working for a software company and dealing with a few myself), they are often worded very broadly and are all encompasing. Regina's may simply be worded

"Thou shall not reveal any information pertaining to Guild Wars 2 to individuals outside the employment of Arena Net, unless given proper clearence and permission by the appropriate management"

NDA's often are not issued by lawyers, and will have very little to do with lawyers, unless an NDA is broken. They are also very broad and sweeping, leaving no room for loop-holes, or misinterpretation. From personal expirence, let me tell you that it's impossible to get through an NDA without breaking it. I think we have thoroughly covered all bases on this topic now. Believe me, I want Guild Wars 2 info just as bad as you, and the next guy, but face it, we won;t be getting any until Arena Net deams it time, and we will just have to accept that we don't know when that time will be, and neither do they. — Jon Lupen 00:01, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps next time Arenanet will learn from its mistake and just to not say anything, it would do just as much damage to itself as it is doing to itself right now. Going "look we're making a sequel" allows interest to be generated and then to go "Look we're making a sequel, here's a little bit of information which we can give you which gives you ( our consumers to which help us stay our jobs ) no true information on and wah-hey! Look, a NDA to just make communication a big serving of wtf?".

There are business reasons of course, I think 90% of us understand this, but its also a consumer matter where we have to weigh up if you're worth the time after the whole "wah-hey, sequel" and following "wah-hey, we can't give you information on anything after the published beta estimated came and went and was changed etc and so on". Not really putting yourselves out there much, are we? 118.92.167.172 00:10, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Not saying anything would be more of a disaster. What do you think the community would do when they learned that Eye of the North is the end of the line for Guild Wars, and that support for Guild Wars has been cut DRASTICALLY, and no reasons why? Arena Net would have to explain themselves sooner or later. The longer that took, and the less complete the explanation, the more ugly the situation would be. Who-ever said ignorance was bliss has not worked in the software industry. Arena Net made the right choice. As of now, they deal wiht some discontent at the current situation, and pleas for Guild Wars 2 information, where as they would be dealing with complete and total outrage from the vast majority of the community. Trust me when I say they chose the lesser of the two evils, if you can truly call the current situation evil. — Jon Lupen 00:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem is is that in both situation, what happened and what could of, its a disaster to an extent. They revealed the plans for Guild Wars 2 and the end of Guild Wars additions and then did the most epically stupid thing and had that period where no one was capable of giving a straight answer on what was happening with Guild Wars, eventually the Live Team was revealed - I feel Regina did so terribly in this time, which ironically was right at the start of her contract. That was a disaster, mistakes that didn't need to be there if they were more organized, I personally find it difficulty to take them seriously/as a professional company after making such amateur mistakes, but thats just me.

Yes, its all well and nice you're making a sequel but your foundation building sucks. 118.92.167.172 00:27, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Their was no easy and fool-proof plan for moving ahead with their plans. Often times, in the software industry, of the options your left with, non of them are popular, and your choice is the least destructive and upsetting route. You can't win every battle. I'm not sure who I'm quoting when I say "Winning a war does not require a victoy in every battle, engagement and struggle. In war, even the victor suffers a number of defeats at the hands of his enemies, and in occasions, at his own hands." — Jon Lupen 00:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

saying its 'in development' is not enough, we need evidence. from our persepective, it doesnt even exist since we havent seen anything. --92.235.60.31 03:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

AGF please. --JonTheMon 04:46, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Define "We". Because if you presume to speak for the entire community, I would say that's a fallacy. — Jon Lupen 04:59, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

The problem seems to arise from the fact that they have thrown out tidbits in a marketing ploy. These tidbits are not simply shots from the environments but more along the lines of "features" that are open to interpretation thus cleverly (or perhaps notso cleverly) allowing them to say we misunderstood them. Then we have asked for clarification on those tidbits, since many of them are completely out of theme of guild wars and more along the lines of world of guildcraft, or tabula rasa. Not to mention some questions about feasibility, and then presto. Suddenly everything is under NDA and you can't even get clarification on what is already out there. This means that it looks an awful lot like a craptastic marketing gimmick pulled by seemingly every company these days. You begin to question if they intend to make good on any of their claims, or if like a large portion of the notable releases these days half of the features get kicked in the head in "development", meaning you are stuck wondering if they were ever intended to be serious in the first place or if it was some shitty marketing gimmick all along. Seriously, people are getting tired of that crap over and over again. Its the complete and exact opposite of what should have happened and what is happening. I understand the need for some secrecy, but once you release information, abandoning it is like committing marketing suicide. Either you support and explain it, and inevitably more and more information leaks out, or you get frustrated people complaining about your unwillingness to help out when x is already known. Generally, people will accept that an idea is scrapped, but if you say we plan to do something, and its not there, they feel cheated. Give them a reason beyond some generic not technically feasible equivocating bullshit and people will generally respond positively. Work with people, or they work against you.

Look at SCII. Yes its been in development for ages, but they never told anyone until the unveiling. Now look at the level of transparency. You have interviews, questions about balance, about WHY they did x instead of y or z, and there are answers with a few exceptions. That simply isn't the case here. After the announcements, and a few things to get people hungry were made, you ignore everything. People are getting pissed. Who cares if you have a somewhat stable application yet. You've made the announcement and have never followed up on any of it, ranging from professions, to races, to new mechanics, to the world and what kind of artwork we will be seeing. And Blizzard isn't even remotely close to the levels of transparency you get from a lot of indie developers.

Its the things like little if any replies about a possible lack of a level cap, and the whole completely ludicrous thing about we are not sure how we will implement that at this time. I've heard many times that a politician can talk for hours and say nothing, and if thats true, several Anet employees could run for office and be co-emperors of the galaxy by noon tomorrow. The above statement means absolutely nothing if you rip it apart. No matter what happens the "we told you so" card can be played. If you are going to release stuff like that, don't release it at all, because no matter what happens you will piss the majority off. Say you will do something or don't say anything. If you do tell people and later on you decide that it is impossible, explain why without using the "not technically feasible" crap. As mentioned above, people can generally accept something if you can give them actual non abstract reasons that mean absolutely nothing.

As far as defining who we are. We are those who want information about something we will consider purchasing. Withholding information looks like a lack of concern on Anets part as well as a rapidly increasing amount of speculation. Untethered speculation generally leads to suspicions like what is posted above. I for one am interested in how much of the previously touted features will actually be implemented. I cannot see many of them being implemented, and if most of what has been mentioned so far is, I cannot say I'll b too keen to purchase, but that is a personal viewpoint and generally irrelevant to this discussion. Kelvin Greyheart 05:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

"We" defines those amongst the community who want to know, which is a massive amount. I come into under 'we' - and yes I couldn't even type that with a straight face. 118.92.167.172 06:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

i would like to point this out how pissed off would you have been to see gwen come out a non standalone expansion and then hear nothing from anet? nothing at all? or any reasoning as to why gwen was a non stand alone expansion. they had to tell us that they were making guild wars 2 other wise we would be confused as to why we got a expansion instead of a full campaign like night fall and factions. it was done out of a had to instead of a want to imo. truthfully i think they should have made gwen a new standalone campaign with no new classes but only new skills for para sin derv and rit. just to balance out the amount of skills they have to the first professions. released that then said nothing for the next 6 months and then when the next campaign was to come out said something about guild wars2. i think the only reason why we know about guild wars 2 right now is because of how there business model is set up. (ie Release a new campaign every 6 months.) if that wasnt the case i dont think we would have heard about guildwars2 for another few years.75.165.113.53

"Look at SCII. Yes its been in development for ages, but they never told anyone until the unveiling. Now look at the level of transparency" - yes, "now". After the game has been years in development and is almost finished, so they may afford to let people know of the main features the game has knowing that details may change, but those features will be there. GW2 has not been that long in development, so it's not surprising we haven't heard anything about it.

The difference between Arena Net and Blizzard is how the latter remains in silence for years, only announcing a game when it's almost finished, and the former announced a game in the beginning of production. Not that Arena Net had any choice (players would go mad with rage if they simply said "we will stop working on GW1, kthxb"), but which one do you think has more transparency: not telling people about your product, and years later giving information, or telling people about your product, and years later giving information? Blizzard chooses the first option, and so they have less transparency than Arena Net, who has told us about GW2 since its very first stages.

This path was the only reasonable thing Arena Net could have done. Erasculio 12:19, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

They could have simply said they are working on it, but the simple fact that they released details points towards garbage marketing hype. As it stands now, very little concrete is known. They refuse to even talk about anything even if its been released as info already, so from some people's perspective, they see nothing coming from practically every developer in GW working on GW2. I used the starcraft II example to add a touch of irony since Blizzard is very closed mouth about so many things. Saying somebody is talking less than blizzard is like calling someone a quiet person in comparison to a mute. It also doesn't particularly matter that they have only started GW 2. People mostly don't care, as long as you keep them up to date. I agree that they simply had to release that they were working on GW 2, but my argument that they just released juicy bits in a marketing attempt still stands. When asked for details, or being called on how they intend to actually do something feasibly, everything suddenly goes quiet. If I had to point to one problem with the current situation that would be it. They made their choice to give out some information on top of GW2 will be in development. Their failure to support that information has caused massive speculation, and is rapidly evolving into a PR nightmare. Kelvin Greyheart 14:58, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Those of you that keep asking for more info is doing the PR job for A-Net, as long as people are speculating about GW2 it is a PR success. Only thing that would make it a PR nightmare is if we STOP asking and forget it was ever mentiond. Stockholm

Thanks for the idea. :) Boro 16:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

They really need to follow up on all the tidbits of information they have released. It just got fustrating as a player that deadlines come and go and ANET just is mute about GW2. What they should do is have a big Q and A session about GW2 and where it currently is in development. They can say hey look we have worked out classes and content but are still figuring out the level of graphics. I mean they don't have to release anything new just clerify what already is out there.--129.21.189.190 22:03, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Arenanet falls into dangerous ground with its current actions - sequels have a very long history of stuffing up in itself, just look at the games and movie industries. NCSoft is having a bit of difficulties lately, no company would be comfortable with a shift from a successful formula to something that looks like is mimicing someone else's successful formula... cos that always works o.O. Which Guild Wars 2 appears to be doing, going more of the way of a WoW rip off at first glance as its abandoning a lot of the features that people actually liked in Guild Wars. You can go at me for the WoW reference all you want but I gladly ignore you in advance, that and although not the origin of MMOs you can't go five feet into MMOs without a WoW comparison at its, unquestionably the industry leader. Instance worldspaces are gone for the most part. AI companions appear to be cut down to a minimum, probably a Mhenlo clone will be injected into the mix of 'companions'. Its also changing the professions, we have 10 in the original and they have released little to no information as regards to this. That in itself adds to the massive question mark over the Hall of Monuments, one of the actual selling points of their last product as well and probably the only true bridging elements for players between the two products.

The problem with opening their mouth in the first place, though reasonable to an extent, is that they left massive amounts of questions open to anything. A stupid thing to leave festering out in the open, as I'm sure that has paid off in the past - just look at the massive mess that was Ursan. Then the Guild Wars Live Team and the period where no one, seemingly not even Arenanet had systems in place for Guild Wars that it could assure its consumers about.

Stockholm, the problem with the situation is that even though interest is still being generated its a negative interest, its purely bad publicity. To open your mouth and then clamp it shut being a NDA is just bad PR and it just makes Regina look terrible. She's also getting a massive amount of negative attention, which though I must admit I don't sympathize with her over and this is the job she signed up for so she should be more than capable of withstanding it otherwise she needs to look for a new job, can't be good. Arenanet is a big boy but its not fronting this Regina is and is getting slammed for it, and we all know she got upset right at the start of her time with the community.

There's a hungry community out there and the games industry is big business, sure they can go from the point that this is industry standard, yes thats probably true, but we're not so bound by the industry standards. We're bound by consumer standards and will eventually get tired of being messed around and go elsewhere, which NO game development wants to see happening.

Did I mention that WoW is up to the 11 million subscribers and still going strong? It would be interesting to see how well Guild Wars and Arenanet is doing, but... as we know, Arenanet doesn't like actually releasing confirmed figures apart from the misguiding box sales figures which give no idea of actual players. Rant over, time for a nice cup of tea ^_^ 118.92.167.172 23:34, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

As 118 mentioned (ironic since I am in the 118.113 range myself) you are partially incorrect Stockholm. There is publicity running rampant but it is bad publicity. A person who has had a bad experience is typically significantly more vocal than a person who has had a good experience. The fact remains that their marketing ploy has completely backfired because they ignored it. Ignoring it longer will only make it worse. Regina is getting slammed because of a poor marketing decision. I can see this getting turned around if they actually open up now, but much longer I get the feeling (completely unsupported, but I'm just throwing this out there) that people will give up and loose interest in the game as a whole. Kelvin Greyheart 00:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

If I may, here's some positive PR:

[clears throat]

Arenanet proudly presents Guild Wars 2 where players will be able to play as a Human, Asuran, The powerful shapeshifting Norn, the feral Charr(this one requires the viewer to replace the current skin with that of a kitten over-dosing on steroids) and the new Sylvari (I was going to call them 12 year old girls but I didn't want to overstep ... ohhhhhh.)

There's no such thing as bad publicity, after all ;) ^_^ 118.92.167.172 02:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Um, the charr are either feline or kanine, while the tauren are bovine. Humans are the generic. Asura are rabbits with sharp teeth, the only thing attaching them to the knomes would be their height. The norn are giants. They may be able to turn into a bear, but it's only the bear, and so what if it's a line outa WoW? Other games have shape shifters. Oh and the first year of developement of pretty much any game is all planning. if Blizzard had announced Star Craft 2 on creation, they would have nothing to show for it until a year or two later except empty promises and speculations. I work in the software industry myself. When a client acomes to use with a project, say it takes 2 years, we have nothing to show them other than "we're working on it" for the first 6 months or more, and the only real solid facts and specs don;t start flowing until month 18. I might also make a note that we tell our clients as much as we can, as we have nothing to gain, only loose by with-holding information. — Jon Lupen 03:06, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Jon, I think you miss the point of my poking fun at the situation, but that's ok. Actually, if you looked passed say the height on my comment liking Asuran to Gnomes there's actually quite a few similarities beyond that limitation but if I have to sit here and explain it that takes the fun away from it all. As for the Norn, who don't actually know of they're just limited to the Bear form, especially if you take the other two blessing and attached Norn beliefs into consideration as well, it hasn't been ruled out in Eye of the North or by Arenanet if a wolf or bird form will be available to the players of Norn in GW2, but I'm sure you were just omitting that to join in the fun ^_^. Again, this highlights some of the questions that have come up. In regards to Asuran we have questions etc and so on that have been provoked simply from the small amount of info we've got.

Jon, you as also not the first to come in saying you are in the software industry it doesn't make you any more creditable, also if a company I was hiring for work could only say "we're working on it" I would close contract and go to someone who could say more than 4 words to describe a work in progress. Yet, again, I'm sure you omitted such a thing to join in the fun of the situation considering your follow up comment pokes fun at the first. ^_^ 118.92.167.172 04:02, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

What I don't understand is why none of the big companies try open development instead of closed development. Closed development is where they are quite until the product is almost done. With open development they can get players suggestions as they are developing the game and give regular updates. It would keep players interested and see how the game develops. Sure if they have to cut a feature they give an explanation. It would risky since I don't think something like that has ever been tried before but if it did work it would work amazingly well. It probably would too, since they already have a fairly large interested player base.--129.21.100.156 04:31, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

@118.92.167.172: Fair point on the Asura and Norn. Also remember that if you look around, and loko closely, many games borrow and pull from many other games. One of the things that makes WoW so successful is how generic it is in many respects. Have a good look at WoW, and then the MMO's before it, and then tell me who is borrowing from who. What WoW did best was take everything that was good from MMOs, and a good protion of the fanatasy genre as a whole, thorw it togther, and polish it over. WoW is very un original on it;s own. Neither is Star Craft 2, but that's another story. If you would like to persue this line of conversation, my talk page would be best for that.

@118.92.167.172: No, my comments about my line of work contained alm ost no omitions and I was not poking any fun at anything. All things considered, "we're working on it" was probably an unfair over-simplification, as that's what most status reports boil down to. It's very hard to hash out a status report on a project when it's entirely technical details that noone outside the team working on the project could make heads or tails of. It's generaly boils down to. "Work progressed further. We are still on (ahead of) schedule. We will be able to deliver these requests for certain, these we are still not sure of, and these will definatly not make it into the finished product." Also keep in mind that the kind of software we write is often far less complex in terms of use than say, a game or an OS. We do data management, proccessing, analysis, and access. Look up Gallup some time. One thing I quickly came to realize after a few months, is how little the customer understands on the technical end. If we told them that we changed the way CUSTOMER, and QBANK interact with eachother, and how CUBE stores data, or that the program no longer executes an SLQ inquarry every time you request information, and instead caches all the relevant data client side upon first request, they would be clueless. Instead it comes out in words such as "We optimized several vital proccesses" or even just "it now runs faster and more efficently.

@118.92.167.172: Problems with PR and the flow of information from the company to the public and community is not a problem faced by only Arena Net. Just about every developer has issues with this at some point or another, and in some form or another. Be it too tight-lipped, too open-mouthed, not backing up facts, irregualar, info releases, or just plain saying the wrong things. Follow any game form conception, to announcement, to release as closely as people are trying to follow Guild Wars 2, and you will run into the same problems. Several users have already stated that the only annomaly with Guild Wars 2, was how soon it was announced. that key difference was also a vital difference. I say this again, trust me when I say that if Arena Net had nto announced Guild Wars 2 when or around when it did, things would be MUCH MUCH worse. Any game that is runnign off a home grown engine takes 2-4 years to complete. the first half of a game's developement time is silence, with the game eventualy being announced half way, or 3/4ths of the way through developement. Judging from what Gaile and Regina have told us about Guild Wars 1's original developement time, I'm not expecting anything until late this year at the obsolute earliest. Hang tight, as your not going to force Arena Net's hand, and change the course of an almost dead standard game developement cycle.

@129.21.100.156 No one tries open developement for two reasons. One it's a competing. They don't want another company to steal their idea and beat them to it. The second, well, simply because no one has ever done it before. — Jon Lupen 04:49, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Jon, I do get your point - well, what parts I could follow, limited not because I'm thick however - and I don't think its anyone trying to force Arenanet's hand, I think of it along the lines of "giving them enough rope.". 118.92.167.172 05:11, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Also on an off-topic note: keeping a client from understanding what your doing is terrible. Terrible. They're paying for a job to be done, to which you are there to do, how you dumbed it down is absolutely terrible and I sure as hell hope you're omitting points like "later we explain in it terms they can understand beyond 'it runs faster'." Geez, dude! 118.92.167.172 05:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

(RI) Jon. I've worked on several items for database management myself. Small stuff to be sure. Admittedly, you almost certainly have far more experience than I do with just about everything in that area, I am but a not so humble college student after all. My point is that you keep mentioning technical details to say people won't understand what is going on. First of all, we are generally not asking for such technical stuff as that which relates to the obscure encapsulation and optimization of caching techniques in a database entry system, assumed to be used through a web browser or some non third party proprietary interface designed for the explicit use of gallup poll form and other questionare submissions (OK I got seriously carried away there , and my BS meter just broke, but that was fun to write). Secondly, I would assume that many, or more like most of your clients are either largely clueless as to how their software works, or know enough to spit requirements out, and the rest may be as well be magic to them. Sure there are people who know exactly what is going on, but it is my general understanding from having worked with such projects to a very limited extent, and having a father who is a software engineer who has done that sort of work for years, that these are few and far between. With gamers...that is a terrible assumption to make. Many of us are developers, and many more, myself included, have a moderate to very solid understanding of code.

There are many questions about what the plot will be in the game, what the graphics will look like, what kind of monsters will be in it, etc. Those are all entirely subject to possible changes, or exclusions at this point, however the game mechanics themselves are effectively locked into certain parameters. When we, as developers, and even smalltime coders alike question the validity of certain statements, not specifically, but with a certain level of notoriety, the already released details about how the world will work, and a possible lack of a leveling cap, we generally want a somewhat technical answer. We have asked these questions, and have been told that everything is currently in limbo and under NDA on top of that. We have pointed out flaws in certain concepts, and gotten little if any response. We have made vocal our complaints about such poor public relations and have still been ignored. Now we are speculating as to whether these teasers were even meant to be real in the first place. Kelvin Greyheart 06:22, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

[bursts into laughter.] Winner of the "Best line of the day" award goes to you, Sir. "(OK I got seriously carried away there , and my BS meter just broke, but that was fun to write)." That was legend ^_^

Actually, you have a point. Regina is big on "things change", and has used this when we ask questions even about Guild Wars. Seeing as the beta that was earmarked was cancelled and now the NDA it does beg the question "what of what we know is actually still true?". I would like to also point out that massive amounts of work would have had to have been done if they were even estimating a beta, Guild Wars 2 will be more developed than I think a lot of us realise. 118.92.167.172 06:31, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You can't blame an employee for not wanting to breach the NDA, since that employee will get into serious trouble (most likely loss of job) if they breach it in any way. My suggestion would be to ask for the contact information of the person/people who decided that there should be an NDA, and voice your problems to them. They are the only ones that can decide to give you more information. Regina just can't. Not without risking het job, and I doubt any of us want that to happen. 145.94.74.23 09:45, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

You can come up with whatever theories you wish, the simple fact is the Regina can't answer any questions regarding Guild Wars 2 or she will lose her job. She, like the rest of ArenaNet staff are bound by a non-disclosure clause in their contract (an gag order, if you please), and until they are told differently by the 'powers that be' there will be no information coming to us. Rather than continuing to fill her talk page with walls of text regarding things she's unable to respond to, you guys should find a new hobby. -- Wyn/talk 09:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

well wyn thats the problem our hobby is guild wars....lol75.165.125.117 10:30, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Its funny when you think about it, they release information and then slam down a NDA, so we aren't even able to ask if the information they released it still valid. Yes, Wyn, that's a GREAT idea, you tell Arenanet customers to go elsewhere, I'm sure Arenanet would thank you with hundreds of flowers for such a great idea. Yes, because businesses love losing customers. 118.92.167.172 18:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

@Kelvin: Sorry, I think I got carried away and forgot to state my main point. The sect of the software industry I work for is entirely different than the gaming industry, and we work differently, but pretty much every game developer still treats it all the same way. And actualy, if you REALLY dive into the specifics, I don't know too much about data base stuff. I'm still an intern you see. before I write more walls of text, if you would like to continue this discussion, please see my talk page.

@Everyonee else: Guild Wars 2 was announced at the very beinging of it's development cycle, there is a very good chance Arena Net told more thna it knew, which is very unavoidable in that early of stages. — Jon Lupen 22:33, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Either way, if Arenanet goes tight lipped about stuff its already said then I suppose we'll have to see if it pays off for them - I'm betting not really well but thats just me :P. Guild Wars is a small game in the grand scheme of things, it will be interesting to see how the now effects the later. ^_^ 118.92.167.172 23:16, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Which brings us back full circle to the point that has been made several times here. If they were unsure of anything they should have not mentioned it in the first place.

Wyn. Problems caused by breaching the NDA aside. I sincerely question the value, and point of said NDA. What purpose is it fulfilling now other than generating bad publicity? If Regina or any other Anet employee has any desire to break this up, one would assume that they only need to take this topic to the person responsible for the NDA. A topic that has grown to the magnitude that it has in and of itself has generated the over 32KB warning in such a short time frame should be cause for concern. If said person(s) refuses to lift, or modify the NDA, at the very least I would expect a note from Regina that explains the current situation and the reasons for such a decision, without equivocation, or useless PR lingo in general. People are obviously getting tired of that, and want actual answers at this point. The stark silence and complete lack of any response at all on Regina's part is only making matters worse.

As far as Regina getting slammed in this situation goes, it's too late to avoid that. She acts less like a PR person than an Anet employee giving out information. You get more down to Earth responses from Linsey and that isn't even supposed to be her job. Copypasta stuff like, This has been passed onto the developers, and the usual carefully worded things meant to say essentially nothing don't fly with many people. Kelvin Greyheart 23:23, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

In the end Linsey's responses may be a crowd favorite but its up to Arenanet's management to handle Regina, and though her answers (for me at least) are like having a cheese grater to your face ultimately they must approve of her style of responses. Also, the Wiki isn't something she's paid (as far as I know) for so maybe there's a side of Regina we don't see though they would be weird when you consider it, which people like Gaile and Linsey show more as a default. I don't know. But thats going off topic. 118.92.167.172 23:34, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Because I get bored easily these days I thought I'd read up on some Guild Wars stuff, and saw stuff that is pretty funny when you think about it.

April 22, 2003 - NCSOFT UNVEILS ARENANET’S HIGHLY-ANTICIPATED COMPETITIVE ROLE PLAYING GAME, GUILD WARS

Guild Wars is expected to launch in the 2nd Half of 2004. <--- that made mechoke on my cup of tea as it seemed so familiar :P

28 April 2005 - Guild Wars is Live!

21 - 26 March, 2007 - Guild Wars 2 revealed (several interviews)

Interviews have a guessimation that Guild Wars 2 will enter beta testing sometime in 2008 - later changed to closer to release

Now, I'm not optimistic to think they're going to suddenly release Guild Wars 2 close to my birthday, but I thought it was funny. Its like when they reveal you need to add a year or so for their decision to 'gestate' ^_^ before you can expect it out, in this case to see Guild Wars 2's beta :P One thing I have learnt, when they 'expect' to do something add a good year to it and that'll be a good guess when we will see it ^_^ So, following a butt-ended series of logic since they expected a beta in the latter half of 2008 I'll guess there'll be a beta in the latter half of this year? Will it happen, probably not, but one can poke fun at the situation ^_^ 118.92.167.172 03:26, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Halo 2 was delayed almost 2 years total. I could start top run a list, but it would quickly involve just about every game developed. — Jon Lupen 04:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Valve time....Kelvin Greyheart 05:34, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Jon o.O so much is lost on you, or my humor is just so warped no one gets it. I'll go with things being lost on you for the warped side of myself, and me for the logical side of me ^_^ Yes, Kelvin, I think you got it ;) Everyone works on Valve time, they really should copyright it ^_^ :P 118.92.167.172 08:27, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

I don;t try too much to pick up on subtle humor. The one thing I fear the most is misinterpretting something. I;ve had a small number of VERY bad expirences with it. I jst tend to take things seriously by default. I;ve never done harm by takign a jake seriously, but things have gotten messy by taking something serious as a joke. I just play it safe. — Jon Lupen 23:58, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

my ban

Hi,yesterday i got banned on GW just for recruiting ? I'm wondering how can i get banned for just saying "Finakky funny [aids] is recruiting blablabla pvp thing blablabla".The reason is excessive spamming but there already is a spam filter.I also switched village quite often to get to more people because i wanted to get my guild active.Is this actually ban worthy ? Lilondra *gale* 07:10, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

You'd probably be best asking this question to Gaile, as she's the Support Liaison. Also, just because there is a filter, it doesn't give you a license to spam. The filter is there as a safeguard. It's the same reason people can still get banned for excessive swearing. --Kokuou 08:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Yh but i just recruited i mean tons of people are constantly spamming WTS and WTB to me it is actually normal you ctrl +c ctrl +v youre recruit message just like the rest ? Lilondra *gale* 09:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Isn't it obvious? Anet doesn't want people playing their game. Except white wasabi. He's the only person allowed to violate EULA and get around bans. ~Shard 09:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Trolls, gotta hate them. It is true that Gaile is the one to ask these kinds of questions or remedy the ban; but you have to ask yourself, how long were the intervals of the "invites" posted on all chat? could it also be that someone reported you for mistakenly "spamming" on all chat when no one else was chatting and would seem that you were spamming? 121.54.92.21 10:20, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

nobody spamming in kamadan american one ? shure Lilondra *gale* 10:39, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah...The Report feature has a specific option for people who are spamming; it says "If a player is found to have been repeating messages excessively, that player's account may be banned". No surprise you were banned, then. I usually see people spamming the trade chat (and that appears to be allowed), but I usually don't see people spamming the all chat for long. Erasculio 11:40, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

I know but i just find it retarded that youre not allowed to recruit i mean if somebody finds it anoying there is this thing called "ask him or warn him" I had no idea recruiting was wrong and have never been banned for it before geez its not like i'm the guild leader of the KKK seriously 2 hours would have been more then enough 72 is just like a we like to keep the membercount on our servers low Lilondra *gale* 12:30, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

There's a recruitment channel, it's under Party Search > Guild. Use it. Recruiting is fine, but don't spam. Rule of thumb, if you can see your message twice in your chat box open, you're definately spamming. Same with trading, use the trade channel, and don't re-post too often. BTW, there is no spam filter that I am aware of (i.e. "all chat" is not meant as a spam filter). -- Alaris 14:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

There is a recruitment channel in party search, but that has a pretty low character limit (basically, it's only big enough to fit the guild name in) and the message still displays in all chat. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 16:57, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Nobody checks that tbh Lilondra *gale* 17:09, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

(1) Nobody wants Guild spam in all chat, tbh. (2) BTW, you didn't get back to me regarding the "spam filter"... where is that? (3) Reduce your spam rate, and you should be fine. Those who get reported are usually the ones who abuse it *more visibly* than the others. -- Alaris 17:54, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Nobody wants guild spam in all chat, no, but there's nowhere else to put recruit messages. There isn't enough room in the party search window to give any info about your guild other than maybe the name. I do agree, however, that you need to leave a fairly long interval (roughly 20 seconds would probably be sufficient) between messages. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 18:02, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Yh ok the thing is that if you forget the 20 second interval you shouldnt get a 71 hour ban the first time Oo.And the spam filter is the thing that prevents you from just spamming by displaying a message of to excessive blablabla instead Lilondra *gale* 18:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Anyway, no need debating this, as the crucial piece of evidence needed to make any kind of judgment here is how frequently you were spamming. [[1]] has been discussed extensively [[2]]. I seriously doubt that you got banned for posting a msg in all chat only twice, 19 seconds apart, and got reported by 1 person for doing so. -- Alaris 18:32, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Lilondra: I have been in contact with Gaile, and the GM team has already investigated the report and determined from chat logs and time stamps that you were indeed spamming. Their decision stands. --Regina Buenaobra 22:00, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Starting new line,Its not only the ban I'm worried about tbh its more the fact that I dont know HOW to recruit there need to be better options.Be it making search viable Lilondra *gale* 07:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree that there should be room for more text in the search window, not only for recruiting but also for trading, party search etc. That said, those are the tools you are given, so you have to make the most of them. What you can do is: 1) Keep a short message up in the party search window. 2) Recruit in all chat with a longer string but without spamming (ideally do not repeat more often than 1/minute). The population in a district don't change much from one minute to the next. And to be honest, spamming gives a pretty bad impression to prospective members so it is counter productive anyway. 3) PUG! The best way to recruit is to play with people, not spamming. You might get fewer this way, but the members you do get is more likely to stay.--Lensor (talk) 09:05, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

If the problem it's the system, and it is when it comes to recruiting, making parties and trading, the solution it's not going around the system and against the rules. The only solution is insisting and insisting until the flaws are fixed. Although that make take ages, it's still the way to go. MithTalk 13:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Spamming is a serious problem (72 hours ban first time), unlike griefing, leeching and exploiting bugs in PvP (nill to 30 minutes). 84.56.229.15 10:08, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Prior Art Found??

Maybe Arena Net can contact these people on this website, the voice in the Video Says 1993 link here: http://techdirt.com/articles/20081230/0128173245.shtml good luck! i also left a comment for them with a link to this: http://www.alleyinsider.com/2009/1/50000-reward-offered-for-proof-worldscom-patent-lawsuit-is-bogus

I hope this will help Arena Net, A list of Virtual world chat 3d thingy
Virtual Woman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Man VirtualGL open source (don't know when this started) http://www.virtualgl.org/ Cityspace: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cityspace Diversity University: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_University Dreamscape: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamscape_(chat) 1997-CyberTown: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberTown Not sure how relevant this is, its a free tool release to public to create Virtual 3D world: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7002479.stm (NEWS) Metaplace official webpage: https://www.metaplace.com/ another Metaplace news: http://gigaom.com/2007/09/18/metaplace-unveiled-raph-koster/ more metaplace news: http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/20048/?a=f Raph's of metaplace webpage: http://www.raphkoster.com/ Croquet SDK Opensource: http://croquetconsortium.org/index.php/Croquet_SDK
Pumpkin pie 06:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Im sure NCsoft people know how to use Google too =) Still, this patent is like claiming you invented putting tomatoes into Ketchup and every one else stole your idea. I just wonder who and how approved the patent application in the first place and if he or she ever noticed wast numbers of MMOs all over the place, even at the time. Biz 19:54, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

yes Biz practically everyone who has internet knows how to do that, the point is spread the word, the more people knows about it the more chances that someone who knows about a prior art may come forward. if you have internet you would know who approved it, wouldn't you? I suspect is this guy:Primary Examiner: Cao (Kevin) Nguyen Pumpkin pie 09:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

WTB Regina Online

I know I've posted this before, but I dont think I've ever seen you online doing any Q&A with the community. If you actually do do it, it would be nice if you could let us on the wiki know so we can be on then and ask our questions in game live. I know Gaile didn't do it that often, but I haven't seen you do it AT ALL. Maybe once or twice when I wasnt online or something, but the fact of the matter is it's extremely rare anyone gets to say anything to you in game. You may have a second account to play on and thats fine, but when it was heard Gaile was on to talk, LA was flooded with ppl asking questions. People want their voices to be heard, but if the all the developer/community relations support is hidden behind a wiki, then whats the use? --adrin 02:22, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

People want their voices to be heard

Arenanet wants their players voices to be ignored. ~Shard 02:25, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Judging from Regina's journal archives, it's not something she sees as terribly efficient: [3] [4] --Mme. Donelle 07:32, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

She's not doing anything at all to communicate with the community. Nothing is less efficient than something. Gaile, as bad as she was at CR, at least appeared in-game and posted on guru (real posts, too, not reggie's directly-from-anet BS response to everything). -Auron 07:50, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

ack! we posted at the same time Auron. what i was going to say was even if she did come on once or twice, Post-Searing and Thinking About In-Game Chat - 09 May 2008 check the date there. she has a major disconnect with the community. maybe she could try pvp'ing with ppl for a couple LAWLS. --adrin 07:54, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Auron, we call that the "Automatic Comment Generator." This one's my favorite: "We will continue to monitor this change." ~Shard 07:56, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

You know, I play TF2, and we get a blog post monthly about what might be coming, and then we have to tack on the Valve time expectations to it. So the scout update that was to come in January? Early february at least. My point is that while Gaile was heavily involved with the community, and Regina is not, you shouldn't even be expecting service like Gaile would give. Gaile would put in like 10 hours a day at work just because she genuinely loved the community and Guild Wars. I could tell from Regina's xfire hours that she hardly played GW. -___-; I always tried to help or suggest, let's do some PvP, or you can come on Vent to see what organized PvP is like. However, I told her I wasn't going to college and she stopped talking to me, so I didn't make the VIP friends list, so it's very possible you will be receiving this kind of support all through GW2. Brace for impact, because this is how things are normally run for other games. And besides, if I was Regina, I would completely ignore anything you have to say, Auron, simply because you think Gaile was in any way a bad CR. I'd just figure you were being a miserable bitch. Vael Victus 15:16, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

When I see comments like some of the ones posted on this talk page and elsewhere, I'm not surprised in the least that Regina is giving us bland responses and not playing much GW. Gaile, like Vael said, genuinely loves working with people; Regina seems a more introverted type. (Though that's just my observation.) She's not under any obligation to socialise with us, and frankly, I don't see why she should. Folks make ridiculous demands of her, blame her for things she can't directly control, criticise her, and in some cases outright insult her -- and you're wondering why she's not socialising? Try being nice to her and see what happens. --Mme. Donelle 16:29, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

(Regina)'s not under any obligation to socialise with us

Umm...yes she is. It's her job. Her job is basically what Gaile is doing now, but where Gaile deals with support, Regina is supposed to deal with suggestions and feedback. ~Shard 20:46, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I've seen Regina respond to questions and pass comments back to the dev team, but perhaps that doesn't count as dealing with suggestions and feedback? (By the way, most online dictionaries give British spellings along with American spellings. So next time, do check beforehand that you're actually correcting and not merely Americanising.) --Mme. Donelle 21:20, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

She's obviously doing enough for her position otherwise her higher-ups would get her to change her stance. Regina was billed right at the start of her time here to be better than Gaile and all these other high expections. When she actually started doing stuff we learnt she wasn't Gaile, not be a long short. Gaile had left big shoes to fill, sadly Regina hasn't filled them to the community's expection, but as above, she's doing enough community work to please her bosses so don't expect her to do anything she apparently doesn't need to do with the community. Gaile, I think, just enjoyed being part of the community, Regina, as it seems, likes being official and out of the circle. Whatever works for her, I suppose. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 03:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Some people here seem to confuse the wiki community with game community...they are not the same by a long shot. Many people here do not actively play the game and many game players do not frequent the wiki. It seems that ArenaNet understands this even if some wiki users do not since it has been made clear a number of times by ArenaNet employees that wiki activities are voluntary and of a personal nature. (This seems fine to me given the limitations of wikis.) -- Inspired to ____ 20:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Regina is not Gaile. To some people that's a relief. To some it's a disappointment. Gaile had her own unique way of dealing with things and Regina has a different one. I've seen her try to live up to certain expectations resulting from Gaile's departure (like in-game chats), even if it's not really her thing. I don't think it's fair to say she's not making an effort, just because you're not getting exactly what you want from her. Honestly, one read through her entire talk page makes me sympathise- if I had so much trash thrown my way on a regular basis, I wouldn't want to bother with a reply either. The fact is she does reply', if not to every single post and not in as much detail as some people would like to see- or even as quickly as we'd like to see. Regina's replies may sometimes seem a little curt, but they're far more polite than the answers some wikians like to provide every other day or so. And concerning the matter of exactly how Regina's job is defined... that's something between Regina and her employers. Only they know exactly what is really expected of her. We have no insights about the specifics of her contract and potential other agreements related to her job (except maybe that she's bound by NDA for certain things). It's really not up to us to tell her what her job is. It's rude and ungrateful- I can think of any number of online games that are far worse off in the CR area than GW. Perhaps if people were a little more polite and a little more patient, she'd feel more inclined to answer the questions posed her time and again. -- Elv 20:19, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

@Alba Matu: "Regina was billed right at the start of her time here to be better than Gaile and all these other high expections". I did _not_ "bill" myself as "better than Gaile" at any time. I don't know where you got the impression that I said anything of the sort or even implied it, but I think it's rather a big mis-characterization of me, and frankly it's a little insulting. I feel a little hurt that you think I would announce or say such a thing, frankly. --Regina Buenaobra 20:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

@Vael: You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding personal interactions you had with me at Xfire. Furthermore, you have continued to use your previous acquaintance with me as if it should grant you special favours or a special consideration from me, and when I haven't shown special treatment to you here on my wiki page, you insinuate that I have a personal vendetta or problem with you. If you have a problem with me, why not talk to me, instead of making drama on the wiki? Also, I think you're perfectly aware of the fact that people don't have to log into Xfire to play GW. --Regina Buenaobra 20:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

@adrin: I am not "hidden". My contact information is located on my user page. You are free to send me a forum PM or an instant message. I have made my MSN Messenger address and my Xfire IM address available to players precisely because I cannot spend the bulk of my workday in-game, but I still want to be accessible. It's a lot easier for me to reply to IMs on MSN or Xfire while I work on emails or other documents, than to have to Alt-Tab from the game. Throughout the day, I get many instant messages from players. Anyone is free to add me on Messenger or Xfire if they wish.

Would you rather have me ever-present in-game but on DnD or Away, not sure whether your question was getting seen or answered, or would you rather send me an instant message and get a more or less instant response? --Regina Buenaobra 20:31, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Aba didn't accuse you of billing yourself higher than Gaile or anyone else - I inferred that other people, at that time, were putting you on a high pedestal and legitimately expected you to be at that level (or surpass it). (By the way, the name is "Aba Malatu" and not "Alba Matu" - I'm not sure how offended Aba gets when people misspell that, but I thought I'd point it out anyway).

I don't think the issue is about you being "ever-present", but of being more present than you are now. -- Brains12 \ talk 20:46, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Today was the first time I've seen Regina online and playing in at least 3 months. Now, knowing that our Community Rep is playing the game is fine, even if she's on DnD. I agree that it seems like Gaile actually enjoys the game and her job, but as quoted by some Regina seems to be more of the introverted type, which is not a good thing when dealing with people. She should be friendly, outgoing and playful. It's funny how a simple troll actually got her to show herself on Guild Wars, maybe if we start enough talk for game balance that might happen too and..... nevermind --adrin 22:08, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

To suggest that how often that you, personally, see me in-game is a barometer of how much I love the game is... Well it doesn't make much sense. I love the game, and I love my job, but I'm not Gaile Gray, and ArenaNet doesn't expect me to be Gaile Gray. They never did. They don't measure my job performance by how many hours I spend in-game. They measure my job performance by my ability to set goals and meet them (and if they're not met, to take steps to improve), to clearly present community feedback from dozens of sources to them, to clearly present messages to the community on their behalf, to help write Dev Updates and web content, and to do a whole host of other things that are more accurate means of determining whether I am a good CM rather than how many hours I spend in the game.

You don't have to have a certain personality-type to be a community manager. I have met community managers who have wildly varying personality types, and all of them are awesome professionals and incredibly cool people who are good at their jobs. If companies required a certain personality-type to hire them as a community manager, it would be very difficult to fill positions.

I showed up in-game because I had thought about something and wanted to see whether it was correct or not. It was correct. --Regina Buenaobra 02:51, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Regina: "I did _not_ "bill" myself as "better than Gaile" at any time" I never said you did, I was implying what Brains12 has followed up with, plus I'm not bent out of shape with name being misspelt, but Aba is fine. I don't believe I've made a mis-characterization about you, but I do believe you've jumped to wild conclusions on under your own power and it's troubling that you're assumption has hurt you, yet this is something that is for you to deal with. In the end, Regina, you have just insulted yourself. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 23:22, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the problem is that people expected me to be Gaile 2.0 and instead they got Regina 1.0. Gaile's community management style is not my own. I approach this job differently than she did, and those who wanted me to be an upgraded Gaile are now disappointed. There's really nothing that I can do to alleviate that. I am not Gaile Gray. I am the only community manager on the entire team in the situation where players have put me on this "pedestal" --> to be the same as Gaile Gray, and where players have "billed" me as "better" than Gaile Gray. I don't think you expect Martin and Peter to be upgraded Gaile Grays. You don't constantly visit their talk pages, complaining about how they post on their forums about as much as Regina posts in her forums, about why they don't host in-game chats. My practices are in line with the global community team's practices, and because the way we operate meshes better with each other's community management styles, it's more harmonious for our team.

I'd also like to once again point out that the public parts of my job are not the only things I do. They're simply the only things you see. --Regina Buenaobra 02:10, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

"I think the problem is that people expected me to be Gaile 2.0 and instead they got Regina 1.0. Gaile's community management style is not my own" - To be honest I think you had to fill a position from someone who was well liked and respect, that in itself is a massive task, but your 'style' just doesn't seem to be filling the void that was created when Gaile left. You had some mighty big shoes to fill from our point of view (well, mine at least). Sadly, Gaile is a tough act to follow and personally, in my eyes, you just aren't cutting mustard. Sorry, but that's how I feel.

"You don't constantly visit their talk pages" - Could this be because there are a lot more people that aren't part of the European community perhaps? Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 02:27, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you expected me to fill Gaile's shoes, I am afraid that it is your own fault for setting unreasonable expectations. As I have said several times before, Gaile Gray's shoes belong to her, and her alone.

When Gaile was a community manager, she tended to field all English-language matters by herself and made decisions regarding the community on her own. Martin, Peter and I subscribe to a team-based philosophy, however, so the disproportionate attention placed on my position when I am just one member of a community management team is misplaced.

The European player base is actually a little larger than the North American player base. --Regina Buenaobra 03:05, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Key words being "I've seen". There is also the "Offline" option. I know I have "ghosted" or "flown under the radar" plenty of times (much to my guildies disliking). The fact that I can throw an x-fire message Regina's way through-out most of the day, just about everyday, and get a response in a reasonable amount of time is more than I can say for reps of other games, even the illustious Blizzard. — Jon Lupen 23:35, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

@adrin: WTF, "playful"?!? Wow, way to be incredibly sexist. Do you expect Martin and Peter to be playful with you? Your ridiculous gendered expectations of Regina are beyond disgusting.

Honestly, do all of you just not understand that Gaile's style of community management was unhealthy?? 10-hour workdays everyday of the week, working on weekends, working when she wasn't in the office--man, that isn't devotion to her community, to me that suggests that she had some serious RL problems, and that she didn't know how to maintain a healthy work/life balance. Wanting Regina to sacrifice her life for your petty game issues is an unrealistic and selfish expectation to place upon her. And really Aba Malatu? Condescending much? This wiki community is so childish most of the time, it's no wonder that the majority of GW players do not participate in the community here.219.122.35.195 00:58, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Excuse me, but unless you are a medical health professional, I think you are in no position to be lecturing people about what constitutes an "unhealthy lifestyle". That is all.

Random comment @ Regina: I think the issue some players have with your style of CM is that they don't see you "actually playing the game", and this leads to the conclusion that you don't know the current state of the game and are therefore unfit to be CM. That is of course fallacious in more ways than one, but most opinions tend to be like that. Vili 01:06, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) @IP:"work/life balance" - Sometimes those are one in the same. Gaile spent her time, days, nights and weekends doing what some of use here on the wiki devote much of our free time to. You also speak of being childish, and condescending when you, yourself, suggest that Gaile has "IRL problems". Seemed a little ironic to me. — Jon Lupen 01:13, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

"@adrin: WTF, "playful"?!? Wow, way to be incredibly sexist. Do you expect Martin and Peter to be playful with you? Your ridiculous gendered expectations of Regina are beyond disgusting."

First off...Adrin is married--to me--and is the least sexist person you will meet. The giant leap you have made in assuming that is what he meant by a "playful" personality makes me laugh. The term playful usually means "friendly" personality. But thank you IP address for your blatant troll.--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 01:32, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Lulz you called me sexist. Sorry if your idea of the word playful is nothing but dirty. Also, next time you want to break a NPA policy, sign your comments instead of hiding behind a monitor.--adrin 01:36, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

IP: Me? Condescending much? You're point? I never claimed otherwise ^_^. If Regina finds my words harsh/arrogant - even if originally not - I don't think it's going to make her run and cry into her pillow, if she's hurt by her own assumptions then she clearly needs to stop playing the victim.

I tried to remain mindful of the reality of the situation in my first post, yet if she either can't read or has to make assumptions then they are her issues and I wish her the best of luck on correcting them. Period. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 02:11, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

• First: I dont have Xfire, that should not be a requirement to get a voice in to a community relations team member. That brings me to my next point, I don't think you expect Martin and Peter to be upgraded Gaile Grays. You don't constantly visit their talk pages, complaining about how they post on their forums about as much as Regina posts in her forums there you go again claiming to be the poor helpless victim. If i was euro and had a problem yeah I'd prolly go to them, but seeing as I am an american, I'd like to talk to you, rather than at you. I appreciated you decided to sign on today after this massive thread we've had. You were on away and thats cool. You should post on your wiki when you will be on to do some Q&A. Then the people who really have concerns, especially the ones you see here apparently, can ask their questions. In fact, last night Gaile was on. She was just playing the game, but when she was in town she was happy to answer questions. Yes there were mindless idiots there asking OMG GALE WILL U GET ME A FROG MINIPETZ? I LIKE TEH FROGZ AND WANT MONEYS. They were properly ignored. I did ask a question about if the next update will include heroes removed from PvP aside from Hero battles. I got my response, "I don't know yet, you'll have to check the update notes for the next new build" I was happy with that. I got to talk to someone, and in game Q&A isn't even their primary job. I am not expecting you to be Gaile Gray community wizard. I am asking you to be an online presence and possibly follow her example as you can see, she did a great job. Don't act like we're picking on you that you're not doing your job and we should blame the team. I feel an online community relations specialist would be beneficial to the game, instead of rampant trolls on a wiki that most people don't enjoy. --adrin 07:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Let's put this one straight: Ingame talks are the least efficient way to actually "hear the players voice". Bottom line. They do not show the dedication of a CM. Regina posted some way up here that she publicly made her MSN address available. Which means if you want to talk to her, just add her and shoot your questions. It would be a one on one conversation - the most personal thing you can get apart from a face to face talk. And another point: It is always important to keep in mind that not posting does not equal not listening. Posting just for the sake of posting is more like a +1 posting.--Martin Kerstein (talk) 16:24, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Breaking from the main subject....

"I showed up in-game because I had thought about something and wanted to see whether it was correct or not. It was correct."

Is this something you can elaborate on? My curiosity is getting the best of me. If not, that's cool, no big deal. — Jon Lupen 03:18, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

The server just crashed

Fix it please. 99.135.161.76 13:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Which server are you referring to? Game server issues should be routed through support not Regina's talk page, since she is probably not here at 5 am. -- Wyn/talk 13:25, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

With great power comes great responsibility! But the Guild Wars server is back up anyway, so no problem. 99.135.161.76 13:27, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

What the heck! Banned for an inapropriate name?

My name was B E A S T C H O D E. The only ppl who think this is inappropriate are in QuCo, but they fail anyway so their opinion is null.--adrin 08:37, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Nobody has been banned for S U X O N My K U R D I C K [Gulp]. Is that less offensive? Oh sorry, I guess the guild name got changed to S U X O N My K U R D I C K [ban]. That's so much better. ~Shard 08:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Thats easy... it's in ALL CAPS, for that people deserve to be banned. Besides who picks a name that means Animal Perineum? Biz 10:05, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I think the common interpretation would be something like "massive penis that is wider than it is long". That would be the reason for the ban. S U X O N My K U R D I C K should probably also be banned, perhaps you should report them. Misery 10:09, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't complain, I'm surprised you lasted this long. I mean they nailed ---- I mean b ite ... you can't see the word 'bite' in chat unless you have the level at NONE... a boss in the game is not only a baddie in game but he's also a bad ------ word. Don't you love it when things get weird. But thanks to Guild Wars/Arenanet/NcSoft I've learnt a whole heap of new bad words. ^_^ Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 10:11, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

i think its sad that they have people who sit there and police players. for the most part everyone playing needs to be older then 13 and with that said they all know the words 95% of them probably think they are the funnest thing they have seen. so i think for the most part all they are doing is alienating there player base, and i think its rediculess for them to even try to police it i know there are paranoid parents out there but the truth of the matter is that the parents who worry about this stuff are just making there kids turn out worse, and need to wake up and smell the roses because my bet is they already know and use such language.75.165.125.117 23:04, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Usernames aren't part of some permanent policing system as far as I know. The only active system in the game I'm aware of that "blocks" bad names is in the character selection bit, which I assume blocks based on the chat filter. Players who find themselves banned for their name have typically been reported by a player who happened to spot them and thought it was inappropriate, not the victim of some sort of secret banning police. The GW policies are pretty clear on the code of conduct, and it includes bad language. There are in fact many people of many varying ages who do value that code; not just overly concerned parents. If you manage to create an offensive name (either by bypassing the filter with all caps or by using creative spelling), you know you risk a ban. If you happen to find a word that isn't included in the filter, but still bad, you also risk a ban. You know what your name means, you know that you're breaking rules you agreed to uphold. So don't come whine when you find yourself banned for this. (And before someone drags up Ye Olde Filter Whingefest... no, no, no, no, and no. Just no.)

The age group that considers bad words the epitome of wit consists mainly of the same group that hasn't reached the age to legally do a lot of things, like smoking and drinking. Most people older than 13 have managed to develop a slightly more refined sense of humour- not a lot of people above that age will feel the need to start laughing at any random crude word. (Any idiot can throw bad words in the air, it's not particularly funny.) ANet's banning policy on the matter no doubt alienates a few people, and while these few tend to be very vocal, they're overall not that many and I can't say I'd shed tears for the loss of them. -- Elv 09:17, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

lol i suppose sarcasm doesnt translate on the interweb as well as IRL. if we're looking for an ethical debate, go to yahoo's message boards or something geez, this was just a joke on QuCo, in which some of my buddies who play HA regularly would find funny --adrin 10:37, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

(EC)Bitch please. don't pull your Air of Superiority bull on me. so explain to me how someone who can smoke or drink has a higher intelligence level then a 13 year old? and what dose that even matter with the topic at hand. 75.165.125.117's point was that is the age minim for guild wars players, and if you are a parent who is trying to protect your 13 year old from bad language you have already failed and made it a forbidden fruit. also the last i checked if you are younger then 13 then you need signed permission from your parents and have that form sent into anet to be even playing. also just because there is a policy against something it dose not make it right. also i dont think 125.117 meant police like siting in game looking for it, they meant that the fact that some one is there putting in the effort to ban someone is a waste of resources and time. they do nothing to stop the exact same name or guild name or tag from being used again. --75.165.97.47 10:56, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Isn't it fun to comment your own comments? You'r right, being able to Buy alcohol and cigarettes legally doesn't make you smarter, but having 5+ years to develop sure makes you more aware of your social surroundings and your own conduct, not to mention grammar =P Biz 14:17, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Isn't it fun to reply to your own comments? You're right, being able to buy alcohol and cigarettes legally doesn't make you smarter, but having 5+ years to develop sure makes you more aware of your social surroundings and conduct, not to mention grammar. Have you heard of "the pot calling the kettle black"?Pika Fan 14:43, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Good troll job there Adrin. Lots of drama starting. Misery 14:23, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Thx, i thought it's funny how now my ban's up and when i logged back on it didn't make my change my name, nor has regina replied to this post.... --adrin 10:06, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

well you know what they say when you assume it makes an ASS out of yoU and ME. lol 75.165.97.47 00:03, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Don't take it personally. Regina doesn't reply to anybody's posts. ~Shard 02:19, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

Hi adrin: As you probably know, support issues are not my area. If you had a support question about your ban, you should have contacted our Customer Support team. I do not have access to the Customer Support ticketing system myself, so I would not have been able to deal with your request. --Regina Buenaobra 20:04, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Do me a favour

Tell ANet's retarded, inconsistent pieces of trailer trash for GMs to hurry up and look at their tickets, I am NOT impressed. Owut 19:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

User:Gaile Gray is the support liason for Arenanet, try her. Misery 19:31, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

i c wut u did thar 99.236.18.156 19:36, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

misery is nice78.20.153.111 19:36, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

JQ bug

when are a/net going to fix the bug in JQ luk side from time to time the green turt will stay in bass only whay to get it out is to let green be cap then retake it? this as gone on now for weeks reports get filed but nothing gets done

Would it be rude...

...to bump this while I see you are about? You can ignore all the drama and just answer the original question if you'd like. I'm genuinely interested and in case it's a concern, I've never actually edited GWiki at all, all my wiki contributions have been here so I'm not really just trying to stir. It's just above your New Years greetings so I wondered if you could have assumed it was outdated. Misery 19:49, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Yet another GW2 topic :o!!!!

Hi.

I know you don't want to release info about GW2, but listen up.

It's been almost 2 years, and we haven't had any info except for "Hey we're making a new game and this is the story!". This is bad. I know most people want atleast a little bit of GW2 info, and you should have something concrete now, as in "This is the way it's going to look like" or whatever.

What I'm asking for, is concept art, of something that is DEFINITELY going to be in the game. Something we haven't seen before.

I would like you to ask this of the developers, and tell them that it would give the community some faith in GW2, so that we know it's being worked on, because right now, all we have is your word.

Thanks. Mini Me 14:41, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Sigh. This again. Arena Net is just following what every other gaming company does with big releases. They have been working on the game for around 2 years, and after two years...

1. Blizzard had not even announced StarCraft 2. Of course they had not released concept art or anything that would be in the game.
2. Blizzard had not even announced Diablo 3. They had not released concept art or anything else.
3. Blizzard had just announced World of Warcraft, with even less information than what we know about GW2. No concept art or alikes.
4. Age of Conan had not even been announced, so no concept art or anything.

No gaming company releases concept art or anything along those lines for their big games after only two years in development. There is so much that can change, so many things that will still be improved, that doing so this early would only hurt the game's reputation. After all, showing this as a preview of Prophecies would only have led people to complain about how the game looked bad, and maybe even lose interest.

Regina has already stated multiple times that the game is in development, as have other Arena Net employers. If you would like to assume they are lying, well, I don't really see much of a point in adding to their talk pages. Erasculio 14:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Stop using fail logic kthx. You're talking about games that weren't announced, good job. They didn't announce them for a reason. WoW: It's Blizzard. They can afford it. Anet can't.

Oh and hey, I'm not saying they're lying, I believe them. I'm merely saying what other people think.

And I'm guessing they were working on GW2 before they announced it, at least I hope so. And note how I'm not asking for screenshots, so your point in showing that ugly as shit image is moot. I'm asking for concept art, because they should have something concrete by now. Mini Me 14:58, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Wait and see young padawan wait and see. Fox007 15:00, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. Those games weren't announced because those gaming companies could afford to not announce those games. Blizzard did not have to stop supporting their existing games in order to begin production of WoW or SC2 or Diablo 3, just like Funcom did still release other games while producing Age of Conan. Arena Net, however, could not afford that. What would you have expected they to say, "Oh look, we will stop working on Guild Wars, but we won't tell you people why, ok? It's for a really good reason, more news in 3 or 4 years"? I don't think I need to explain what would have happened then. Arena Net had to tell us about Guild Wars 2 to explain why they were not going to release any new GW1 campaign, but their timeframe is still the same as any other gaming company has had for any other big game. You could say Arena Net is even giving us more information than any other gaming company: by this time, everyone else would not have had announced their game, but Arena Net did the announcement. To expect said announcement and more stuff right now doesn't make sense, though.

And regarding your "guess" about when Arena Net began working on GW2...Take a look at the kotaku interview:

"I asked Strain why Arena Net decided to stop producing expansions and campaigns and instead develop an entirely new game with Guild Wars 2.

Strain said that after shipping the last campaign, Nightfall, this past October the team sat back and evaluated where they were in terms of game design.

When they looked at what they had accomplished with Guild Wars and its campaigns they were happy with what they saw. Then they looked at what their gamers were asking for and it wasn't one more campaign, one more continent to explore, new professions to learn.

"What people wanted, I think, was more content for the existing models," Strain said.

So the team started creating a wishlist of all of the things they'd love to see added to Guild Wars and when they were done they realized it was too much to stuff into the existing game.

Instead it was a master plan for how to build the "ultimate Guild Wars game," Strain said."

Bolding is mine. In other words, Arena Net began the discussion that would eventually lead to GW2 after the release of Nightfall. Which means, they have been working on that game at most for slightly more than 2 years now. Which gaming company has released concept art for one of its major releases after only 2 years of development? Erasculio 15:20, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

They started with the Guild Wars Campaign: Utopia i.e the perfect campaign but this campaign got so big they decided to start GW2 and just make EotN as a starting line for GW2 Fox007 15:29, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

The topic of Guild Wars 2 has already been covered in much depth — Jon Lupen 17:13, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I think there timing could be a bit better. They didn't need to annouce Guild Wars 2 when they did. They combined the eye of the north annoucement with Guild Wars 2. They could hav e easily left the Guild wars 2 out. Stay with EotN until the release. They even had the BMP to annouce as well, so they could have easily annouced GW2 in March 2008. 216.232.127.117

GWW:AGF also comes to mind — Jon Lupen 17:25, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Because wiki guidelines have so much to do with real life, right? And please don't give me that bullshit "GW2 has been covered in depth already", that is worthless. I don't need Anet's personal protectors to step up when I ask something, thank you very much. Mini Me 19:43, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Asume Good Faith is applicable in real life whether or not it's a GWW guidline. People keep asking about Guild Wars 2 when nothing has changed. When something changes, we will know, and as soon as possible. Asking repeatedly is not going to change anything, especially when your asking right on top of another user asking. Asking every month is not going to change anything. Persistance is not going to change anything. To be extremely blunt and probably somewhat rude, your wasting your time. Perhaps you should read some of those articles that I linkled to and "that bullshit "GW2 has been covered in depth already", that is worthless." will seem less worthless. When you get stonewalled, repeadly running into it until it breaks down is not an option. — Jon Lupen 19:52, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Really? Last I heard, persistance does help. So no, I am not wasting my time. I could read those articles, but I'm guessing all it says is info I already know or "we're working on it so stop asking". Which is not helpful.

To be extremely blunt and probably somewhat rude, go away. You're wrong. You don't need to defend them. Mini Me 20:47, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

They've been ignoring everyone for months. Do you think they'll break under pressure and release info when they're not supposed to, or wait until when they are supposed to (which is what they've been doing since.. forever)? -- Brains12 \ talk 20:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Considering they were ear-marking a beta for late last year there should be stuff to show off to generate positive interest. 2 years is a hell of a long time. 2 years since they announced it (which doesn't mean that development wasn't well underway at this time). Arenanet's reasons for doing it are there own, in the end, can't really do anything more than personally judge this decision. Just come to not expect anything, it saves you from getting heated up over it.

It's sad that after all this time, and the disappointment that the community had when the Beta was pushed back, that they had nothing to give the community instead. How this plays out for Arenanet's is anyone's guess. Right now Guild Wars 2 just sounds absolutely terrible compared to what Guild Wars was, I wish them they best of luck. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 20:55, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

"which doesn't mean that development wasn't well underway at this time" - see my previous comment. They have been working on it for at most slightly less than 2 years, which, as far as game development goes, is next to nothing. I would rather see players asking for answers now and being pleased later than to receive a full game filled with bugs and lacking content tomorrow. Erasculio 21:01, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Then, dear Erasculio, if as far as game development goes if this time (2 years) is next to nothing, why the hell did they announce an intention for a beta when they did? Why get people's hope's up? Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 21:05, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

They probably vastly underestimated the time it would take them to finish GW2. The fact they have had to delay the beta is a sign of such mistake, IMO. Long term planning has never been one of Arena Net's main virtues. Erasculio 21:07, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

It's not a very positive face for Guild Wars 2 then, is it? They over-estimate themselves on the only information we have. That's terrible. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 21:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Which is one of the reasons why I'm extremely happy they are not telling us anything else. Arena Net is capable of making a good game, as long as they have plenty of time and keep their feet on the ground. Making big promises of very cool features they have thought about usually does not lead to a good outcome (see the PvP unlock system, the Hall of Monuments, etc) unless they have plenty of time to hammer those features before actually announcing them. Hopefully Guild Wars 2 will be something they will have plenty of time to work on, and only release news of when everything they talk about has already been imagined, checked, implemented, checked, and then given one last reality check. Erasculio 21:16, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I think you miss that they're already told us stuff. Now it's left us with the question of how much of it is real; we know the beta was a screw up, what else in the limited amount that we know is actually true? Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 21:33, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, some of the stuff they had told us about wasn't true in the end (at least the beta wasn't), so it's better for them to not release any more piece of information now, when things are still in flux. Once the game is almost finished and things are not going to change so much (something that I don't expect to happen in the next 6 months), then it would make sense for them to give us information. Erasculio 21:36, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) (bastard)[ http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4455507&postcount=75 This was a pretty good post.] So now I have another question: When's the big bang? Mini Me 21:09, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

So they want to make a big bang? Hard to make a big bang when they have already established a foundation, which they then broke. Establishing interest and then shutting the door on it completely isn't going to make their strategy work, you can't open your mouth and then just walk away and expect everything you hope to work to actually work. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 21:24, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

the goal of announcing Guild Wars 2 when they6 did wasn't to gain interest, it was to fill us in so we would understand why Guild Wars 1 is being all but abandoned, losing most of it's staff and support and why no further expansions would be forth-coming. Their "Big Bang" is when they grab everyone's interest, not before, not after.

And no, I'm not "pretecting" Arena Net. I'm quelling the uprising, even if it's one person at a time. — Jon Lupen 21:28, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

(EC) Releasing too much information about early features that eventually are removed or reworked wouldn't have helped, either. Even Blizzard had this problem when they removed 2 of the 6 playable races WarCraft 3 would have, and made significant changes to how the game would play. Again, Arena Net is taking their time to release information just like every other gaming company does for their big titles.. Erasculio 21:31, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Also, Wolf and many others have already proposed a Guild Wars 2 Develment Blog, several times, and varying dates and have been shut down every time. Notcing a pattern here? LIke I said earlier, you can;t break down a stone wall by repeatedly running into it. Arena Net's stonwalling us, and only they can chnage that. — Jon Lupen 21:34, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Either move it to another talk page, or take it else where. GW2 is currently in dev, and is covered by a NDA. Until then, this topic is worthless. Dominator Matrix 21:37, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Mini Me: Four community managers have constantly raised this issue over the past several months. Each time our communities raise the topic, get angry, get upset, and get frustrated about no new GW2 information, the four of us again let the business team know how you feel. We have been advocating for providing information or screenshots to our players, however ArenaNet's overall strategic plan remains firm: we will not show Guild Wars 2 off until the development team feels it's ready, and when we do show it off, it will be in a big way, not piece-by-piece, screenshot-by-screenshot. --Regina Buenaobra 00:38, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

We will wait, quietly and eagerly to get new content. As a question: What programming language do you use for GW2?

Please make sure it will be more balanced or easier to balance than this one.

and your new sig_image is nice :) Boro 13:16, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Dervish dance

The Dervishes was a tribe who did dances and rituals by spinning around circles until they got all dizzy. I know the female dervish does this but not the male. You should have it on males aswell because thats what the meaning dervish is.Simpaklimp 19:19, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Dervish is just a name here. They are not the real dervishes. MithTalk 20:34, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I thought Dervish was more like this Dervish --000.00.00.00 21:24, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

The whirling dance or sufi whirling that is proverbially associated with dervishes, is the practice of the Mevlevi Order in Turkey, and is just one of the physical methods used to try to reach religious ecstasy.--Silverleaf Don't assume, ask! 22:10, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Yup silverleaf is right. An ex of mine was their equivlent of a priest (i think its an iman as I believe it to be a form of muslim mysticism) and he used to do the whole whirling thingy. Quite interesting to watch it in real life. -- Salome 14:23, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the Male Dervish moves are not what a "real" Dervish would do, but how can you not like Christoper Walken? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:170.167.4.210 (talk).

Non core dances are gay FACE IT there's nothing to do about it just make shure you never start

dancing by accident and you'll be fine Lilondra *gale* 08:01, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Delicious Mystery

Am i the only one who is excited about not getting any news on GW2? I want to be surprised, I want to be wow'ed,(not as in the sucky WoW but in like totaly WOW!) I want to be blown away from the awsomeness!! I think we all need to savor the not knowing every last detail pre release and just enjoy the mystery.~LuLu

Oh, people will be WoW'ed by Guild Wars 2 changes from the original GW's formula. I think this page continues to highlight that there are a split between who wants to know and who doesn't want to know pre-release info. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 19:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

There is no split, just people want what is already out clerified. Since the beta was moved/canceled give out an update. Or just explain what the stratagy is. While there are a lot of vocal people on the wiki, GW keeps losing people and making people fustrated. So why not just make an announcement when there will be an announcement. At least then we can expect when to hear something. Even if it is in 3 or 6 months, say it, so people stop getting fustrated. Feel free to overestimate the date by 4 weeks so that if it does come early everyone will be very HAPPILY surprised.--129.21.100.156 22:52, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

To misquote Jeff Strain: "give me at least three years and $30 million dollars".

Take the date they announced it, add three years and 30 million dollars, then add another 1 year since we're talking about Arenanet here (Arenanet time) and that'll be when it'll come out. ^_^ Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 23:01, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Why "talking about Arena Net"? Do you know of any (successful) MMORPG that has been made in less than 4 years? Age of Conan took that long, and it was met with many complains on how unfinished the game was/is. Erasculio 23:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Why? Just to get up your nose, Erasculio. No, I kid. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 23:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Less hostility in Regina's talk page (and the wiki as a whole) would be appreciated. Erasculio 23:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't being hostile, Erasculio, so less assumption would be nice ;) But, I must admit I shouldn't have left it without explanation so I apologize for that not for your assumption though.

Secondly, Arenanet time is a dig at value time, where developers say one thing and it doesn't happen. 4 years of development seems a fair estimation, Jeff Strain himself says it needs at least 3 years but I feel 3 years is too short of a time for an 'ultimate mmo' especially considering what Arenanet are changing - their changes introduce elements that weren't in Guild Wars which other MMOs have had issue with. Also what they have released is a big ask.

Considering how the market is changing, and how gaming is evolving Arenanet need to do a lot with Guild Wars 2 and can't go back into a "return to Tyria" style sequel opening - a redo of the first campaign for example with which I fear GW2 will start off as.

Again, I apology yet please refrain from assuming, especially with me. Have a nice day. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 00:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Dear Regina

Removed due to copyright violation

Well, looking back, that was pretty impressive. Someone has WAAAAAY! too much time on their hands. ^_^ Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 17:57, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Just a script. Give it an image, and it turns each pixel into a character. Kelvin Greyheart 19:23, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh well ^_^ Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 19:25, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

*Warning. Topic derailment in progress.* There is this interesting one that lets you watch videos through the command prompt / terminal via text. Kelvin Greyheart 19:29, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Puts this in my "Learn something new every day pile" ^_^ Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 19:48, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Well now that's odd.

Says you only archive dead or old discussions. I had only started it about four days ago! Gosh I just thought we could have a fun happy talk about our wonderful internet friendship before you became a celebrity and stopped talking to me. This wiki form of communication is so primitive. :( Vael Victus 17:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Feeling and "mood"

I have finally taken the time to write this huge wall of text  :) message about Guild Wars' mood.

Guild Wars had a relatively weak mood. Only of plentiful battle sounds (e.g. large battles like the siege of gandara): No soldiers shouting orders, no screams/dying sounds... And the fact that key characters only "texted", not actually said their lines greatly reduced the feeling.

The music: It was okay, but the number of tracks was far from being enough*, the placement of music was another big mistake the developer team made. Placing catacombs track to EVERY prophecies outpost was a bad idea. Also the realm of torment didn't have any music.**

Another thing I missed vas the feeling of an epic fight where adrenaline overflows in the player's body and gives him an experience nothing can ever achieve. For example the fight with abaddon was pretty good. (maybe some howls/roars of abaddon could have helped to maximize effect) While the great destroyer was just "boring". I put pain inverter on him and he died magically in seconds. Now the "biggest" fight of guild wars which actually changed the fate of the dwarves was a few minute fight while not being different from a fight when you go out and aggro a random mob of ice elementals.

Sorry for making this text too long but there is one thing left: Comparison with a game having an unparalelled mood. Dungeon Siege. It had beautiful soundtracks (same composer), and much more of them. When I was in the recently pillaged town of stonebridge with smoking ruins around me I felt the sadness the citizens had, In the alpine trails of the peaks around glacern were the always blowing winds, sometimes even clouds, the music was chilling and calm and it made a beautiful composition. Of course the deserts, forests, swamps, mines and lava caverns were awesome. In the end it was an epic fight. Music, sounds enemies it was like... everything fitted in that scene. It was unique compared to the other fights of the game.

To sum it up: The game mood was weak due to the reasons I listed above. The fight music in eye of the north was a good idea, but then restarting the whole track just didn't make sense. The Abaddon fight was the only scene in GW which I can say it was a good one. Music, sounds, voices. Everything in one spot. Now with GW2 in the future, make sure theese things will be included when designing areas and it's mood.

_*: for example only two shiverpeaks tracks, where only one was used in explorable areas. it's quite annoying listening to THE SAME music over and over again. Overusing them isn't fun. The crystal desert has only one' track which is only played in outpost and is cycling with catacombs tracks.

_**: The Realm of torment had absoulutely no music. It's mood was terrible. it was a waste of time making it and playing it

--Boro 19:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Short version: he doesn't like GW but does like Dungeon Siege. -- Inspired to ____ 20:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree. However, this does not mean I don't like GW. Mini Me 20:46, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Why does nobody like the Realm of Torment? The maddening silence represents the opressiveness of Abbadon's prison. :( --Mme. Donelle 21:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Bring this up now is like saying you want to skin the cat after skinning the cat. They aren't going to make the 'mood' any more tasty. Personally I doubt Arenanet would take any advice on Guild Wars 2. I generally only listen to the actual game during cinematics and have music on in the background. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 21:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't agree with those comments. The last thing I would have liked in the game would be to hear voices repeating the same lines of text over and over, or enemies randomly (and pointlessly) shouting howls/roars (and lol, you were expecting a god to howl?). We already have some enemies with dying shouts, and those are enough for me. Plus, the fight against the Great Destroyer is a common fight that lasts a few seconds only if you choose to use Pain Inverter, otherwise it's unique on its own. I think many things in GW had a great mood, like Pre Searing Ascalon, the fight in Augury Rock, the Northern Shiverpeaks, every area in Factions, the mission in Raisu Palace, etc...The soundtrack of Guild Wars really helps in those things. It is a pity the Realm of Torment has almost no music. Erasculio 22:00, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Seriously, I'm the only person who likes RoT's soundtrack? Less is more, silence is deafening, etc etc...? --Mme. Donelle 22:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Though the fight is weak I really enjoyed stepping into the Augury Rock experience. Aba Malatu means Forbidden Truth 22:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Gender Changing Tonic

I understand that one April Fool's Day, every player changed to the opposite gender. Is there any news on a tonic or NPC that can change gender for us? Mighty Ranger Dude 23:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I might point you here. — Jon Lupen 23:36, 28 January 2009 (UTC)