Talk:Game updates/Archive 7

January 8 update

Completely lame, useless update. Only changed 1 skill? Nevermind the 75% of skills that are inviable and useless, Anerf doesn't care. WTB more effort from Anerf.

Might want to read up on your "many" developers THIS Guild Wars has right now, and how Isiah is busy with GW2 before lynching the Devs Nikdanbro (also, sign with four ~) 00:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

This is the monthly skill update. tbh that's a perfect change to Palm Strike. I'm quite disappointed they didn't buff anything, but Palm Strike was all broken. The damage wasn't totally mitigated and the cripple duration was totally broken, keeping foes permanently snared while spiking them. ---Chaos- 08:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Next month's update will probably larger, but remember: they closed for 2 weeks during the holidays. Stop being so ungrateful and enjoy the things they DO fix. People truly have no patience or manners these days. 145.94.74.23 09:27, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

I love how no matter how little one complains, people accuse them of being ungrateful and also mention GW2. Vili 09:29, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

PS is still overpowered. This update negates a little damage. The problem is the snare, which breaks everything. Kelvin Greyheart 12:49, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

The recharge was the most OP thing about Palm Strike, yet they have managed to nerf about everything but the recharge. :> 217.120.228.192 12:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

the recharge is hawt ---Chaos- 13:08, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

the recharge makes it OP 86.82.19.96 17:19, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

About as many people realise that the recharge is what pakes PS broken as people that were convinced ursan was imba.About 25 % of the GW population yet they succeed in NOT nerfing the recharge I lol'd Lilondra *gale* 16:16, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

If they want to make it unusable they just revert it. I think they knew what they got in to, but just made it a lil' OP, mostly the cripple duration. ---Chaos- 16:56, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

The duration wasnt the problem rly more the recharge because it takes away the counters Lilondra *gale* 17:48, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

With a 20% cripple shield and a rune that reduces cripple you can lol and kite the sin. ---Chaos- 17:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Or just play a mesmer or necro and make all 1-2-3 sins cry like Nancy Kerrogan. Hi Chaos! Karate Jesus. 24.26.253.105 18:04, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

<3 ---Chaos- 18:12, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

(RI)Yay! countering OP crap with different OP crap. (though tbh VoR, + empathy on a stupid sin is beyond hilarious) Taking a third of their health from one dual attack is fun. Even just insidious parasite on them forever is fun. Most of them are so stupid, esp in AB/RA that it's like having someone pump WoH on you on recharge as far as health/time goes as long as they are alive, (which sadly isn't that long) Kelvin Greyheart 18:20, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Wich is why I hate hexers rly they just fire and forget and Melee is supposed to not frenzy,not attack,not gain adrenaline and well die unless they got healer.Thank you for creating GvG and thank you for balancing it just as well as HA :D Lilondra *gale* 19:31, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Oh, just some ideas I had :}

Clamor of Souls (PvE) - 15 1 4 - Elite Hex. Also Hexes foes near target (1...5...6 seconds). Foe and two adjacent foes take 2...16...20 lightning damage next time it suffers lightning damage. You gain 10 Energy if you are within earshot of a spirit or holding a bundle item.

The Idea: Reworked into a hax, can potentially set off multiple times at once. Yey. (Perhaps opening a multitude of options for both balanced and specific teams~)

Preservation (PvE) - 5 3 20 - Elite Binding Ritual. Creates a level 1...8...10 Spirit (90 second lifespan). Every 4 seconds this spirit heals one non-spirit ally for 10...94...115.

The Idea: Whuuuhuu? Nothing's different? ... well, Instead of effecting the area, it effects at a range much like party heal (hitting only one target instead of many, I'm not THAT crazy xD), this alone would make a pure Resto Rit viable in PvE.

Energetic was Lee Sa (PvE) - 10 1 20 Item Spell. (1...12...15 seconds.) You have +2 Energy regeneration. Drop effect: you gain +1...8...10 Energy.

The Idea: It works alright as-is, but with a 1 second activation reduction you can item loop alot more freely instead of being useless for too long.

Spirit Light Weapon (PvE) - 5 1 5 - (Restoration Magic) - Elite Weapon Spell. For 4 seconds, target ally gains 2...24...30 Health per second, allies nearby gain 1...15...18 Health per second. For every 2 ranks of (Spawning Power) this Weapon Spell's duration lasts 1 second longer.

The Idea: Maybe the initial seconds should be 2 or 3... I think this would balance out Resto Necs Vs. Resto Rits in PvE, at four seconds maybe be a little too overpowered (maybe I AM crazy o_O).

More ideas [B

Invoke Lightning (PvE) - 10 2 10 - Elite Hex - (3...15...18 seconds). Every 2 seconds a random foe near target hexed foe takes 5...49...60 lightning damage. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

Invoke Lightning (PvP) - 10 2 10 - Elite Hex - (2...11...13 seconds). Every 2 seconds a random foe near target hexed foe takes 5...49...60 lightning damage. This Spell has 25% armor penetration. Ends early if it hits original target.

The Idea: Either or... Invoke Lightning isn't so much... "useless" just, underwhelming... I'm sure many people are also sick of seeing things burning in PvE, this does skew it's usefulness in PvP (LOL, it had not use xD) (JQ, FA and AB only.. maybe), but having the PvP type acting as the PvE version... would open up massive single target spiking options I'd hate to see infecting places. The obvious use: Echo Invoke Lightning! Hell yes!

Chain Lightning (PvE) - Spell - Target foe and up to two other foes near your target are struck for 10...70...85 lightning damage. This Spell has 25% armor penetration.

The Idea: all the more power to Air Magic, where it should have a need to be needed. Nikdanbro 12:35, 23 January 2009 (UTC) (Forgot to sign)

Those are all in the wrong page. This isn't the place for skill suggestions (I doubt someone from Arena Net even reads this page). You should try the ArenaNet:Skill feedback pages if you want to suggest skill changes. Erasculio 13:00, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

My problem with that is, those are always dead in discussion... that and someone is freely discussing 'em in that "Mindless Interrupts" ordeal of a topic Nikdanbro 13:24, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Translation of January 8, 2009 update

Updated Zaishen Rewards

• Updated Zaishen Chest reward and changed the tonic. Obviously no one cares and this doesn't have anything to do with the broken game balance. Enjoy the creme brulee and firewater.

Automated Tournaments

• Made Automated Tournament rotations even more broken.

Skill Updates

PvE and PvP

• Palm Strike: decreased Crippled duration to nothing...who cares...going to be used with trampling ox until we figure out how to change the condition, decreased damage to 10...still viable...still useful for armor ignoring ganks that you can't kite.

• Searing Flames: Searing Flames has always been overpowered. It is a staple skill used by 90% of Elementalists and therefore does not need a change. Forget Mind Burn, it's supposed to suck.

• Wail of Doom: Wail of Doom is fun to use and even more fun to echo. Despite the fact that it can remove another player from the game, we did nothing about this.

• Visions of Regret: Like Wail of Doom, this completely shuts players down, except that this is way more passive. This makes mesmers viable, so we also did nothing.

• Wounding Strike: Wounding Strike is now balanced as Life Sheath is a perfect counter. Welcome to Build Wars. We did nothing to address this.

• Steam: When used with Glyph of Immolation, this is cheap, spammable blind. At Anet, we enjoy this skill so much that we aren't nerfing it.

• Dancing Daggers: Still counts as a lead attack. Again, we did nothing about it because we prefer to fall asleep at our desks rather than work.

• Victorious Sweep: Despite that this is cheap, spammable, does +25 damage, and also has more healing than orison, we did nothing about this to stop the sway rangers from QQing.

• Rend Enchantments: Unconditional enchant removal is key to the metagame, even if it means remove all enchantments with no attribute investment and minimal downside for 5 energy. We did nothing to address this.

• Mind Burn: Mind Burn is worse than Searing Flames in all ways. To reward people who pay more for Nightfall instead of being cheapskates and buying the first chapter, we did nothing about it.

• Hundred Blades: Hundred Blades lets a sword be used as a scythe, except that you don't strike foes multiple times, the damage is reduced to something pitiful by armor, it has 40% downtime, and chews up your elite slot. We're too tired from grinding on WoW to do anything about it, so we fell asleep at our desks and woke up to eat breakfast and continue playing WoW for inspiration for OUR LATEST PROJECT

• Rending Touch: is spammable cheap enchant removal with no downside if you aren't bad at the game. We like everyone who pays more for Nightfall, so we did nothing about this. Also, we're still tired from grinding on WoW.

Bug Fixes

• Forgot to fix a bug with Dancing Daggers that caused it to count as a lead attack even if it missed.
• Forgot to fix a bug with Song of Concentration that caused teams that used it to instantly win altar objectives.
• Forgot to fix a bug with Golden Gates where the closed gates did not count as obstructions.

Feel free to add stuff to this list if you like but do not REMOVE people's posts.

QQ more ffsdid I make my point clear? ---Chaos- 09:10, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Could you try again, the quintuple <big> tags confuse me. Vili 09:12, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

It's people like Chaos Messenger who give Anet more excuses to fail. -- the preceding unsigned comment was added by 96.233.8.231

I agree with Chaos, take your (insert any alternative word for crying here) where they belong. Here are the places. --Wealedout 15:12, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

lol, people like me? try to balance a hundred broken or bad skills based on bad player feedback, get flamed of it all the time.. and you blame me? gj, logical and all. ---Chaos- 18:58, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

It's not difficult. Given the opportunity, I could fix this stupid broken piece of ---- game blindfolded while half asleep without 25/90'ing stuff or banning it from PvP. And I could fix PvE while I was at it, except that Anet wouldn't hire a good game balancer if one landed on them 96.233.9.222 13:44, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

@96: does your head fit through the door? -- Alaris 15:00, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Why do you say he's QQing? There is some severely imbalanced crap in this game that would be incredibly easy to balance, and yet Anet doesn't fix it. At this point I'd settle for someone who plays RA balance this game. 219.88.198.248 08:34, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

I have a good idea. Let's not have any good skills and bring them all down to the same level.. O ups, teamplay and combos still exist, what're we gonna do now? ---Chaos- 17:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Let's set a system where players can tweak skill stats via an interface like a wiki. It sounds great, except, let's try that in WoW first just to make sure it goes well. -- Alaris 17:58, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Or how about not copying everything that Blizzard does and pasting it into Build Wars 2? Everything that Blizzard touches turns into crap.

Or how about not being spoiled/saying crap without thinking. ---Chaos- 12:18, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Go away and quit trolling. How much did Anet pay you to advertise a failed game?

So much I could stop the whole economic crisis and still live happily ever after. I could also afford sponsoring science progress so much that there would never be any illness anymore, but personally I prefer using hundred dollar bills for keeping room temperature at 25 degrees Celsius and let the muthas die. ---Chaos- 14:57, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

@ original poster: If you don't understand balance, then please shut up. Hearing the same invalid complaints again and again is getting really old, and having to explain again and again why the game balance is better than it seems is getting old too. 145.94.74.23 07:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Skill A synergizes with skill B, which synergizes relatively well with Skill C which doesn't synergize at all with skill A. Skill D makes Skill C overpowered, which also works with Skill E, but not as well. Skill D only synergizes with Skill A, B and C if used with Skill F. Skill G counters the overpoweredness of Skill D and C combined, but the variant of using Skill E is immune to it. Also, a team consisting 6/8 of Profession A which all play the ABCD combination and bring 2/8 of Profession B who bring Skill H to counter Skill G, playing the somewhat balanced IJK support combination which buffs ABCD to the heavens, completely screws over the balanced PvP builds. IJK would be countered by the balanced meta if it wasn't for ABCD and Skill H. Insert skills from AA0 to ZZ9 and try to keep a customer base satisfied without completely letting lose or destroying its favorite gimmicks. Do you nerf the ABCD combination which is the meta for profession A and buff Skill M, which also requires Skills N and O to get their numbers adjusted or the combo is weak, but even the slightest modifications would make it overpowered? Neither is there any sense in nerfing IJK because it's already balanced. Skill G can't also be buffed. You need to drop the whole ABCD-IJK combination out of the meta and buff MNO into the meta, but that would be a power creep and turn the whole meta upside down. Oh, and if you touch anything, the community will be utterly unhappy with the way you nerfed/buffed it, because it's either OP, still useless, or nerfed into oblivion. If you only slightly adjust the values you're going to get criticism for vain updates, death-and-doom-drama from all who play Profession A and more drama from those who complain about how stupid the new meta is. ---Chaos- 13:18, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Chaos, that was pure gold. -- Alaris 14:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

That's the problem with too many skills are added, and why they are adding less but more varied in funtion in GW2. MithTalk 14:58, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd hate game content to be limited just because it'd be hard to balance. And tbh, I like my ABCD combo. ---Chaos- 15:09, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

I personally vastly prefer flexibility and diversity to same-old everyone's the same balance. It's a trade-off though. No matter how professional you are, the more players can play how they want, the harder it is to achieve balance. -- Alaris 16:46, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Tornement Reward points still broken?

I logged on today talked to the usual guy and to my surprise got only 5 points , so i headed over here and checked say there was a problem. according to the updates section of the wiki this was fixed but I've checked and it still won't reward me the missing points?(min points possible is 25 btw)¬¬¬¬conski

Everlasting Mischievous Tonic

Seriously, for real? People got a free max title that normally costs crapload of grind just from doing this? When the everlasting tonics were first announced I just KNEW something like this was going to eventually happen with one of the tonics. They should just make everlasting tonics give 1 party point and make them customized to the character on usage, since you have to zone to reuse it within the duration. How about THAT for fixing zkey prices? 76.105.215.167 08:42, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

It's already possible to get max party points by chest farming.

Also, most Special events already give enough party items, so having more items giving points is not needed.

And Zaishen Keys are expensive cause they not only give a chance to get a neat item, but they also give a cool emote. --NIN37 09:10, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

It's also possible to grow a 60 foot beard grinding the wintersday chest to a max money title.

Also, most special events only give enough party items if you buy them in stacks for millions of gold.

And zkeys are steadily dropping in value because that chance is nowhere near equalizing the reward. Most get r3 and sell the rest.

The point is that some inside group of people just exploited their way to a max title that costs normal people a ton of money. I don't know if ANet will take action, but they've banned people for using far lesser exploits. If everlastings were changed to be like that, the past exploit wouldn't be a concern and zkey prices would go back up because people would actually use them again. 76.105.215.167 10:16, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Well lets see... assuming you buy our title 100g/pt it will cost you about 1,000,000 gold, and an everlasting mischievous tonic sells for how much? 200z? 300z? 300z x 5k/ea = 1,500,000g. if someone wants to pay 500,000 extra gold, i say let them. ill get mine the cheap way, Dragon Festival anyone? 69.131.130.55 17:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Sure, 50% more expensive. But then you still have the tonic which you can resell for the same price. Your argument failed. -- Alaris 18:21, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

seeings as it was fixed, this argument is obselete ;o --→Darklɘs McChaosmongɘr 01:04, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Exactly the problem if they resold it, then they got the title for free before it was fixed. 98.246.179.166 08:29, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Clearly the solution is to customize tonics per player. Vili 09:33, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Clearly the solution is to fix bugs. I see no reason why these items should be removed from the economy. -- Alaris 18:27, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

A bug is a bug, a mistake in the game that happens probably from changing or editing the current information in the game. It can't be helped, so its nobodys fault that the bug happened :/ there also could have been worse so be happy it was just this >_> --→Darklɘs McChaosmongɘr 21:51, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Update page?

I was just looking around on all the divert pages on this wiki and I was wondering how this page works. Looking at the code it takes text from other pages that have something to do with the game updates and reworks it into something more readable. That's all quite clear to me. But does the Wiki require a special extension to make this page work? Or is it just the right amount of templates? Just curious how this functions.-- Demonic Cobra 21:53, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DynamicPageList - Tanetris 21:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it requires the DPL (Dynamic Page List) extension to work. That then gets the last 6 updates and simply includes them. poke | talk 22:00, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Wauw, is it really that simple? Just 1 extension to do the hard work. The code was quite simple to understand, but I couldn't figure out where the auto code came from. Ill go have a look at the MediaWiki for some decent extensions. (if you know any let me know :D ) Thanks a lot for the explaining! -- Demonic Cobra 22:10, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

I have one more question Q_Q. Can one of you explain who this part of the code works? format = ,¶* [[%PAGE%|²{ #time: l, j ¦ %TITLE% }²^{²{ #switch: ²{ #time: j | %TITLE% }² ¦ 1 ¦ 21 ¦ 31 = st ¦ 2 ¦ 22 = nd ¦ 3 ¦ 23 = rd ¦ #default = th }²} of ²{ #time: F ¦ %TITLE% }² ]] <small>([[Talk:%PAGE%|talk]])</small>. It does something with the title that it gets reformed to a more readable title, but I cant figure it out. It seems to add the talk page of the pages into it. Its not in one of the manual of the DPL wiki. -- Demonic Cobra 22:21, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

30/03/09

What has this update actually done. And has it affected us in the game at all?--Sam6555 22:25, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Probably not. My guess is that it was a sneaky way of adding April Fool's stuff that we'll see Wednesday. Karate Jesus

I reckon if they make a silly skill update like last april fools, they should let it actually happen just for that one day.

Shadow Form: increased duration to 10...50...60.
Ursan Blessing: reduced recharge to 5 seconds; this skill is no longer PvE-only. 
Spiteful Spirit: Fixed a bug that caused monsters not to flee while in the area of effect. 
Diversion: increased duration to 120 seconds; increased disable time to 60...108...120. 
Blackout: removed the touch range restriction; this skill no longer disables the caster's skills. 

Pretty cool :)--Sam6555 00:36, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

aprils fool

hahahahahahahahaha i lol'd (Triad 21:52, 13 May 2009 (UTC))

The tragedy here is the Dev Notes and Game Updates sections were updated in a timely fashion for this April Fool's build, while real builds take hours, if at all --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.146.28.102 (talk).

The tragedy is that some people think there was a build... Backsword 01:45, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

There was, unless downloading files we already had and making our .dat bigger was part of the joke. ~Shard 02:11, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

???

Wheres our added storage for april update? Every day I need it more and more. :S --Sam6555 00:52, 10 April 2009 (UTC) This is more along the lines of a bug fix that we would get in the middle of the month... Now were is our monthly update? 68.47.192.6 01:02, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

The magnitude of this update along with the antcipation of a BIG update is /epic fail. They must be doing something for GWs 4th birthday... now if they would just tell us that it would be all good 68.47.192.6 01:33, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Made me along with most my guildies very depressed, people on GWG were saying 1st or 2nd thursday will be the updae......yes there was an update, but not what we wanted. Not even any skill changes. And as for 4th birthday, when is this? Seems like 3rd bday was only a few months ago. --Sam6555 02:23, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

The big update won't be for another week or two. Last big update was closer to the end of the month, and it was already said that it wouldn't be released the same time as the standard monthly. Although, we did get a couple new things that were unexpected. As for the 4th birthday, it'll be the end of April as well, since the game was released at the end of the month four years ago.--Pyron Sy 02:29, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

As it contains no Easter specials I presume there is another update coming 91.109.136.220

@Sam6555: well, whoever told you about the update obviously misinformed you. It has been said for quite a while now that the big content update in April will not come at the same time as the usual maintenance update. It's always sad to see how people who "know for certain that xy will happen" create expectations in other players - which obviously will be disappointed. And in the end it's always ANet employees who get the blame for it. Xelonir 08:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

(Warning, minor text wall of ranting) Not that the maintenance update actually "fixed" or improved anything - essentially all it did was add 2 useless NPC's to a useless corner of (Cry)Babyland (hey look, a.net does care about some players, too bad that to take advantqage of it, you have to hide out in a ridiculous walled garden tutorial), remove the last non-sanity-destroying option to get a non-prestige Elder Pet (I guess the level 12 Lions in Jahai will be the next to go, heaven forbid players actually get a non-convoluted, non-excessive-time-wasting option for (not all that useful) pets) and changed some high-end collectible stuff for high-end loudmouth whiners around. Guild Wars is quickly becoming a "Collectible Online Refuse to Play Game". Am I disappointed ? Hell yes. Do I care about this vaporware "big omg update we has to test more" that makes it easier for cheap people to mismanage their inventory ? Hell no. What a waste of a perfectly good game ... (end rant.)

That said, I do admire a.net for thoroughly testing whatever they push to Live and insuring that it is as bugfree as they can make it (we will always find bugs, if only because there's a lot more of us than of the developers and we often approach the game in a completely different way) so I don't mind the delay. People's expectations have been very strained (or overinflated) given the buzz it's created (not to mention the continued lack of announcements for new paid-for content with a certain "next big product" falling off the radar) so I think everyone (yes, that includes me as well) has been expecting a bit too much, too soon. Clan Yumemiru 08:28, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

"I do admire a.net for thoroughly testing whatever they push to Live and insuring that it is as bugfree as they can make it."

I lold. Raine - talk 09:20, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

No bugs in that skill. Learn the difference between bugs and imbalanced skills. Xhata 13:41, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Signet of Ghostly Might. And yes, RoJ is bugged because it doesn't register as a damage over time area of effect skill so the AI does not run out of it. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 21:07, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

That is not a skill bug. It is AI bug. MithTalk 21:25, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It's very likely that the skill itself is flagged to the mob ("I'm an AoE, scatter from me!"), rather than the mob being flagged to every single skill that could trigger a change in behavior. It's a skill bug, and needs to be fixed... --Mystisteel 21:36, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Saying RoJ is an AI bug is like saying it's the Guild Lord's fault SoGM killed it. ~Shard 21:41, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether it was a skill bug or an AI bug. It's obviously not bug-free, and any testing would've shown that. I mean, you'd think one of the tests would've been, "Hey! Let's use this skill on some stuff! We'll try it on a player, and on some npc!" That'd have been more than enough to make it clear that AI doesn't scatter from it. Raine - talk 23:05, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, bugs are usually fixed sooner or later, but as you can see in the Official Site, the 4th Anniversay update is quite big. So waiting a little big longer should not be a problem, when the 'bug' affects heroes only. Not relying on heroes should harm no one, it's not like they are esential or anything like that, they could be perfectly removed from all PvP modes excepting Hero Battles. Oh, and by the way, as you know, the a skill can be identified when it hits a creature (as you can see in the damage monitor when a damage skill hits you), so I doubt that the skill 'warns' the AI that is a AoE skill. It's more likely that AI has decision trees or something like that that behave depending on where people are and what skill effects and sources of damage are affecting them. So I really think it's an AI bug that affects a skill, not the other way around. MithTalk 14:57, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

It only affects heroes? It affects all of PvE, Zaishen, Guild Hall NPCs (well, a lot of them don't move, anyway), Ghostly Heroes, etc, etc. Considering that the five pulses do over 300 damage (burning included), NPCs standing in it is a rather large balance issue. =/

I'd wager that when an AI-controlled character gets hit by Searing Heat, Searing Heat says to said character, "You are standing in AoE.". The AI then goes through its "decision trees", and when it comes to the one about whether or not it is standing in AoE, it understands that it is in AoE because Searing Heat told it so.

The way you suggest wouldn't have Searing Heat flagging itself as AoE, but rather having the AI go through its processes until it comes to the so forth for every AoE skill in the game. As you might imagine, it would be very inefficient, having every AI-controlled character in the game checking for that every instant; having it encoded in the skills themselves is likely much less resource-intensive.

Now, GW was written to be efficient as possible, as most programs are. Therefore, we can assume that the skills themselves are marked as AoE or not. Hence, Ray of Judgment, being a skill, should have its AoE nature encoded into itself someplace, but does not. From this, we can conclude that Ray of Judgment's bug is a bug with the skill itself, and not a bug with the AI. Raine - talk 17:50, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

That's interesting... Isn't this exactly what I said, above, and you said "it doesn't matter"? --Mystisteel 17:53, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is what you said earlier (did I, at any point, disagree with what you said earlier?), and no, it still doesn't matter whether or not it's a skill buy or AI bug; my previous post was on a tangent to the central issue, in response to Mithran. Is there anything else that you're unclear about? Raine - talk 18:01, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, there's still something I'm unclear about. I described the mechanic. You then suggested it wasn't important. Then, turned around and re-posted what I wrote and suggested it was a important. Just so I know in the future, are you simply being inconsistent, or is consistency only important when you dig into the details (that someone else wrote) of the issue? Simple question... --Mystisteel 18:05, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

You did describe the mechanic. It wasn't relevant (read: It doesn't matter whether it was a skill bug or an AI bug.). I re-posted it in more detail. It still wasn't relevant (read: "my previous post was on a tangent to the central issue, in response to Mithran"). If someone posts it again, it, again, will not be relevant. That looks pretty consistent, to me. Raine - talk 18:16, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

You're inconsistent, and information is only valuable when you post it. Got it! Look, it's a wiki - not a forum. Just remember that when you repost an idea, to be clear that your either agree or disagree. As far as the "discussion" goes - really, I've got it. No consistency. Cheers! --Mystisteel 18:22, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Me: "I lold when you said they tested everything."

Xhata: "There's no bugs with that skill!"

Wizardboy777: "It's a skill bug."

Mith: "It's an AI bug."

You: "It's a skill bug. Here's a light explanation."

Shard: "It's a skill but. Here's an analogy."

Me: "It doesn't matter what kind of bug it is. Point is, it's bugged."

Mith: "Well, bugs get tested and fixed sooner or later. And it only affects heroes, anyway. Also, it's an AI bug."

Me: "It affects a lot more than just heroes. Also, it's a skill bug. Here's a more detailed explanation."

You: "Didn't you say that wasn't relevant?"

Me: "I did say that. It still isn't relevant."

You: "Well, yeah. But you re-posted it, after saying that it wasn't important. You're inconsistent."

Me: "It wasn't relevant when I re-posted it, either. I said this already."

You: "You're still inconsistent, kthxbai."

Maybe that helps you a little?

You say that I have to be clear on whether I agree or disagree with an issue, when, really, I don't because the issue was off-topic, anyway ("It's bugged." "What kind of bug is it?" "It doesn't matter; it's bugged."). I later chose to add my stance on that issue (and very clearly); this doesn't make it any less off-topic. I've said this several times by this point. Raine - talk 18:49, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Really? You need fresh air... --Mystisteel 22:48, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

There is nothing more to be said on this topic. Mystisteel, you're retarded. Anyone who tries to continue this pointless argument is also retarded. Please just stop now. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 17:50, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

NO U. 68.51.95.206 16:20, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't have anything to say, I just want to see how cramped the indentation can get. ~Shard 04:36, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Battle isles Cartographer

It says "Introduced a new Cartographer title for the Battle Isles" is this a joke or is it true? 89.243.221.191 17:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

check the date of said update, and the wiki note below =p. it was April fools if you don't catch on ~PheNaxKian Talk 17:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

April 23, 2009 Update

So what do you think, GWW? All I have to say is, grind, DO NOT WANT. 68.51.95.206 03:22, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

"With Guild Wars we are intending on tapping a market of casual gamers". That changed.....grind + paying for in-game content = not casual. 75.61.32.166 03:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Update is /Fail. I wish Anet would really stop listening to the player base. While some of the updates are interesting, and some could have been better, the implementation was not done very well at all. Pokemon Farms, yeah, now I have to level all of the pets I've already tamed over the year, Armor bag, yeah, now I get to farm zaishen quests everyday for 45 days for A bag, repeat 10 times. $20 for a name change /fail, $10 a storage tab; a bit over priced, Barbi dolls for $10, meh/not too bad I guess. At least I can buy the pet pack for $10, that should generate a few million dollars from the fan base, to go towards GW2 development. Thank you for the content, thank you for the work you've done, but for the most part on this update, just no thank you. At this point the only new content that needs to be added is the ability for one person to use 7 heros.

That's not "content," and it's Guild Wars, not Solo Wars. ~Shard 04:16, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Ideas; fantastic. Execution; Truly. Epic. Fail. On such a massive scale it's rather unbelieveable. As a summary, "here's heaps of new content, if you want to take advantage of it, just give us more money!". How about you stick your update or remove the price tags for it? Oh here's and idea, make it cost INGAME gold, then you don't have to worry about the market going screwed up cos gold might actually be worth something. /epicfailkthxbai on that update Anet. M1gu3lnz 04:46, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

It's also pretty funny that a new character slot is explicitly better than buying a new storage pane. 68.51.95.206 05:21, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Perhaps paying once for permanent sex change, appearance change and name change features would've been more along the lines of what we've grown used to from Anet. But expecting players to lay down the cash each time/every X times they want to change anything about their characters is simply not cool.

While I understand the need for providing income, some of us see this kind of execution as betraying the game's freedom and uniqueness (see: "soul"). I'd hate to see Guild Wars degrading into a petty micro-payments game.

Anyway, I didn't want to whine. Extra content is always good, especially if some of it is free. --Adul 08:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Especially since the "petty micro-payments games" require *micro*payments. And generally THOSE games don't make you buy the damn game. Fail update is fail. 71.0.246.138 12:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

This update was ten thousand times more important and amazing than a skill balance would have been. -Faer 09:03, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

"I wish Anet would really stop listening to the player base." That is a truly epic fail line of crap. When they don't do what "the player base" wants, you all cry "Why don't you ever listen to us?" Now they have given the player base some things that so many have wanted for so long and you come up with that. Make up your friggin minds, either you want them to listen to what their players want from the game, or you don't. Just because you personally don't like it, don't think for a minute there aren't hundreds of thousands out there that do. If you don't want to pay for it, then don't... no one is forcing it on you. Some thing has to pay for the extra servers, and the developer time and everything else it takes to do something like this. I can't believe what a pack of whiners there are here. I think they did a marvelous job, with a few bugs to work out yet, but overall, congrats! -- Wyn 09:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Well of course you do. They gave you an NPC. All Shard got was a perma-ban. 99.151.149.75 09:20, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, listening to the vocal minority is what got us all this huge grind, got us the awful PvE-only skills which then brought us "hard mode everywhere" in EOTN (by far the last fun of any part of the game because of it) and the new micropayment system! I did have great faith in Linsey for the longest time that she and her team were undoing 3 years of bad decisions that added all the grind, etc. This re-adds it all and then some. The cost for name changes and appearance changes are HUGE slaps in the face to everyone who enjoys the game or ever asked for it.--136.142.214.19 13:13, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

That said, the Menagerie is brilliant; equipment pack is okay except for the outrageous grind to get it; storage tabs are good, but cost too much (same as a character? come on! some cost is okay); Nicholas the Traveler is okay, except he's another thing to grind for all the completely new stuff he gives out (new minis? please, why can't they be attainable?); HoM: good change; character customizations? they shouldn't cost real money AT ALL. in-game currency, sure. real world money? absolutely NOT; name changes? nominal cost is okay -- but not $15! --136.142.214.19 13:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

There is no grind for the traveller - you can only use him 5 times / week / account - not much grind by any standard. Ashes Of Doom 13:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

So it's 15 red iris flowers this week, no big deal. But what about when it's 15 of something else that you have to kill a bazillion of something over and over and over to pray for its drop? Collectible drops post-sear are nothing at all like those pre-sear. They just don't drop. 15 of something takes forever to get. Plus, all that storage we just got? Say goodbye to it as we have to start holding on to all our collectible drops! Have you ever tried to get the ingredients for the Canthan New Year chefs? It took all week just to get 3 sets, some of those collectible drops come so rarely (and from so few monsters). --136.142.214.19 13:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

@Shard, I have a Guild, so it's still Guild Wars, but now game content is playable without the epic fails that is the current player base or the three hour long waits for someone to show up in an outpost. Sorry to hear you still don't have an NPC, but the sister of a NPC that is "not really a wiki user or Guild Wars player" does.

@Wyn, congrats on your NPC, and thanks for the all work you do on the wiki.

As for your insatiable GW fanboi lust {insert prefered Kneeland Bobonknob comment}. The vocal part of Guild Wars is what turned GW into its current state of tread milling as 136.142.214.19 stated. I have never been wishy-washy when it comes to my opinion on listening to the player base; it has always been "Stop Listening to the Players". I mean for content ideas, let's face it; these are the same people that are suggesting we add motorcycles, spaceships and light sabers, and level 600 characters (of course now we need level 900 monsters to compensate) to Guild Wars. These are the same people that say make the game more like Wow and Pokemon. Well I'll be damned, now the game is like Wow and Pokemon. Schaaaa-Weeeet!!! /hard-on

I'm happy you’re orgasmic over the new Pokemon Farms and I'm happy you can't wait to grind pet leveling all over again. I'm happy you are pleased with new Wow currency updates, and the 45 day daily quest grind for ONE armor/weapon pack. Reading Wiki, and *shudder* GWGuru's retard and advertisement infested forums, the vocal minority that thinks GW is getting worse seem to outnumber your vocal minority that thinks GW is getting better. (Hint: In all cases, it's from listening to the players.)

I am deeply saddened that I bought into all this hype over this update. Because of my erroneous ways, I will have myself flogged with a cat-of-nine coated with tainted glass and rusty nails, as I stand with my feet in salt water while being electrocuted. As I stated, thank you (Anet) for the updates, thank you for the work you've (Anet) done. Some of the updates are interesting, some not so much. Execution still = /Fail. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:65.5.80.98 (talk).

Just so you know, Helena was named not for Anja's sister, but for User:Silverleaf. -- Wyn 17:02, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

For all you that don't like the update, Q.Q moar? kthxbai --Shadowphoenix 17:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

It would be much appreciated if you'd join the conversation productively, without the non sequitur personal attack. Thank you. --136.142.90.34 18:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Personal attack? As far as I can see, it was directed towards "all of you that don't like the update", and there was nothing persoanl about it. Also, telling someone to QQ moar doesnt qualify as a persoanl attack anyway. Ashes Of Doom 18:39, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I find annoying the 'coin' prices of some items, but it's not something I actually care much about, 2 weeks..2 months is way too much time to get a 20-slot bag, but there is still room for it to change and future quests may give more coins than the current ones. Although most of the additions and updates are quite great, and I love to thins like the Merchant summoner I've seen suggested (and suggested myself) many times, and the collectors, and the Menagerie and... well... everything! I still can't help but HATE the micropaiment added. I wouldn't go so far as saying that they have backstabbed us with that, as many people asked for that even if it would imply micropaiment, but I still can't help but hate micropaiment with as much of my soul as I can for such an actually petty matter, since 'pay once' is one of the three main reasons I chose GW over other games. Well, I'll go whine around about that in quite some places and call it quits for today. MithTalk 19:09, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Good update, in my opinion. Execution was a tad off (makeovers really should be a one-time payment thing. And that's not the only thing.) In the end, however, only ANet will know whether or not they did the right things. I say "good job". FelixCarter

An agreement there... Great ideas, but the execution falls off (spectacularly).--136.142.90.34 20:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

As Mith pointed out, two months for a bag upgrade... Ha! To give an example of how ridiculous that is, a player can obtain Exalted status with several factions in World of Warcraft, which is widely regarded to be a terrible grind process and is one of the reasons people do not play WoW, in less than half of that time. To think that an unnecessary feature in Guild Wars would require many times the amount of grind to obtain than relatively necessary ones in the game it competes with (like it or not ArenaNet, you are competing with Blizzard). I suppose the old "skill > time" mindset really does only apply to Random Arenas. -Faer 20:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually its skills > skill now Lilondra *panda* 13:56, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm kinda dissapointed @ Anet this update is waste of what could have been good quality design time. Don't get me wong the zoo is funny but gimmi a break the time they put in that iff they put it in REAL CONTENT in the game. The gift of the traveler it doesn't add someting it's just another time sink before GW2 comes out (if it comes). And the namechanges i can recall that they said something no we are not gonna do that. Yet they did it IMO this was a laim attempt to milk money out of us. And the storage update darn where to start put it this way there is a max of 26 char slots lets say a iff you play in a wide range of choise you have 10 chars 1 of each prof that leaves you with 16 empty ones. Each char can hold up to 45 things times 16 thats 720 free slots. It takes a few min to change loot and such. Comming to the point of the panes they cost the same as char slots only the panes give you 4 times 20 slots extra thats 80 total do your math 40 bucks for 4 panes 80 slots (panes) 20 bucks for 90 slots (2charslot). And the Z challange another time sink to GW2. All in a nutt shell a waste of time there.Cult Mephisto 22:17, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

The thing that I find to be inappropriate in this update (other than the payment methods) are the Zaishen coin rewards. So far, prestige items were completely useless in terms of gameplay (weapon and armor skins, minipets, etc.), but that changes with the equipment packs. I don't think it's a good thing to feel obligated to grind because otherwise you won't have access to what seems to be basic equipment. The Zaishen challenge quests would be a fun feature if they weren't a chore to do. --Adul 00:03, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Everything they added was amazing but the zaishen coins are really annoying, i only play this game because i hate grinding, i never had to grind in this game, i got by with what drops and did a bit of farming some times, i want an equipment rack but i dont want to wait a week for it but everything else is amazing. Also why wasn't there a skill update? Zyko Wolfven 07:59, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

No skill update because it's too difficult to nerf Bloodspam and Warrior's Endurance. Cougar 16:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Epic fail on the equipment packs and the cost of storage panes. At least they have the promotion going on right now for the free extra storage pane. Speaking of trying to get money out of us, if you change your toon's gender you will likely want to change the toon's name so that's $25 total, right? It's so painfully obvious that they are trying to milk us for money it's sad. I wish they had put some time into actually improving the game, such as a sell list and a buyt list in the party formation window, a way for alliance members to see who is online in the alliance, a for the alliance leader to block someone temporarily from using alliance chat, etc. Anyway, the makeover is nice, but I'd like to see a hairstyle-only option and a way to maybe pick 2-3 that I could then switch to within the game without costing realworld money. Oh, and still no book bag?? How hard would that have been?? 69.179.149.123 16:45, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

is pretty hard to nerf pnh, we bspike n stuff u know..req srs testing rly InfestedHydralisk 16:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I lol'd at the Warrior's Endurance/Power Strike meta. Who'da thunk it. 68.51.95.206 06:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Storage (Good), EQ't Bags (Acquisition Rate's a bit Overkill), Pets (Good), Daily Zaishen Quests (Good), Makeovers (Overpriced/Should be Permanent *per Account* tbh), Name-Change (A bit Overpriced). All in all, it's merely an alternate method of getting their money; Multiple 'One Time' fee's as opposed to 'Monthly' fee's. I'd say it can become even more expensive to pay for each item than to simply pay a monthly fee for it all. LOL GG *Clever!* --Ulterion 17:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

All nice things to make money off and keep us busy while Anet is designing a new game. But most things miss out. There is no big skill update, no big game change, just a lot of new things. Even the request for help that was in Linsey's Journal on 11th of February to report bugs in skillbars has not been picked up (WTB Content there..). Maybe we need to wait until the "Big <insert month> update". And by the way the whole idea of Daily quests? I probable might not say it but I will, since all my colleges did the same. Its straight out of World of Warcraft. No change what so ever, you get paid to do simple things and get stuff that is some what special in return and they change every day. All the other changes, well they are ok but that amazing. -- Demonic Cobra 18:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

My expenses for GW over 4 years: Prophecies - $50, Factions - $50, Nightfall - $50, Eye of the North - $30, 3 character slots - $30, Bonus Mission Pack - $10, Game of the Year pack - $5 (?) = $225 for four years of MMO.

To play WoW for 4 years with all the expansions: WoW basic - $50, Burning Crusade - $50, Wrath of the Lich King - $50, 48 months of subscription fees - $624 with 6-month plan ($720 with monthly plan) = $774 for four years of MMO, ($870 with monthly plan).

Anyone who says that GW is more expensive hasn't done the math. When they were still releasing expansions, the rate of payment was more comparable, but the period in between the release of EotN and now has stopped any rate of payment entirely and skews the data. Correct me if I don't have my pricing correct from their respective release dates. 68.51.95.206 20:41, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, GW is more expensive than WoW for me. That's because I got so bored of WoW, there's no way I'm getting either the expansion or paying for more than my initial 3 months. I'd gladly pay some micro for cosmetics, though I'd prefer a lifetime fee for unlimited uses instead (like a 20-30$ unlimited uses option). I respect that ANet has to make some cash to stay in business, and they've provided me a very good product for the price I've paid. -- Alaris 01:22, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

What would you need unlimited uses for? The price and restriction is intended so that people think better about the change. It is the character design/name they are changing after all... poke | talk 06:11, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Then you add limitation over time, as in 'one change every 6 months'. MithTalk 09:58, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Unlimited uses? I would love to have that just like I often create new PvP characters just to play around with their looks. Being able to mix & match styles across all games is worth the one-time fee (depending on the fee). Once per 6 months is no fun. I can understand restricting name changes to cut down on bad behaviors, but looks should be ok. -- Alaris 15:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

No one say to replace. You can have both. You can't pay every time? You go with the one-time fee, that has some limitations. You can pay every time? You go with the per-use fee, which is more expensive in long-term. More option are usually good. MithTalk 16:01, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

More options is better, but for me, I'd rather an option where I pay once, and enjoy as much as I like, no limitations. The risk of getting banned (and thus losing any money spent on the account) should be enough to discourage ppl from abusing that feature. It's easy enough to flag people who over-use that feature, and filter their chat, to spot scammers. Besides, I'm advocating unlimited cosmetic changes, but not name changes. -- Alaris 16:19, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I would let my arm to be twisted in the case of Name Changes, since I see them more as as a 'server service' than an in-game feature. If they are so expensive, that must be because they are made manually or with a method that involves certain risk or extra costs. You don't talk to an NPC to start it. But the stylist looks more like the guild cape maker than anything else in the game, and I have a hunch that the way models are saved was somehow changed to allow their modification. Since the price of the cape maker is included in the price of any content that includes access to a Cape Maker, and can be used as many times as you want with in-game fees, a one-time fee of any kind shouldn't be so crazy to add for the Stylist, and would definitely get the feature as I already did with everything I else that granted my account something it lacked before). MithTalk 19:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Name changes are always touchy because people can abuse the feature to spam or con other players. I believe the price on that is only because of that risk (and profits, of course). Which is why a one-time fee on looks is more acceptable than on names. -- Alaris 13:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Now, for those of you who are idiots, here's the lowdown. Arenanet are listening to the retarded kiddies of the guild wars fanbase, they COMPLETELY ignore the decent PvPers and anyone in the top100. Seriously, why the fuck don't people go on QQ forums, rawr forums, KMD forums or any such forum where top players of the current guild wars post, and listen to what they have to say? At least balance the game so it is mostly playable before adding stupid stuff that cost a load (and are a complete con mind you). I can see why from the business side of things, but if you made the damn things accessible people would actually buy them. 82.34.128.19 15:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't like PvP therefore I love the update... I'm sure another skillchange will come soon, but do I need to remind ya'll about smiters boon to tell ya that sometimes skill balances arnt a good thing? I donno how much listening they did to the fanbase... did anyone really ask for a zoo? bout the only thing asked for is more storage and were paying for that so its not like the PvEers win there either... MrPaladin 15:36, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

That's how you thank the hand that feeds you? Look at all that fresh meat PvP Zaishen quests gave you, XD And don't forget the removal of /roll, that's pure PvP love. MithTalk 23:09, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

No, that's HB love, and it pains me to call it "love" even in that sense. HB is hardly serious PvP. I don't mean to offend any HB lovers out there, but let's face it: most people think that HB blows. They weren't there to HB, they were there to grind zcoins and balth faction. Instead of removing the /roll, they should've looked at removing the reason people /roll - they don't want to play it because it's terrible.

It's still equally as terrible, and people are still finding new ways to be rewarded by not actually playing it (currently RedResign and RockPaperScissors) - removing /roll didn't really accomplish anything positive for HB.

The only other time /roll was used in PvP was in RA. You know those matches where you've got five healers on the map? Yeah, teams would often /roll to decide which team would resign out, saving everyone the time of having the match drag on through the eight to twelve minute healfest till tiebreaker. Though people may like to just leave prematurely, the Dishonour system effectively kills that.

So, removing /roll (1) did nothing to improve the situation in HB and (2) makes people in RA sad (albeit very occasionally). Raine - talk 23:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

You won't believe it but I said to a guy well it looks like red resigns is the new rule.His reply (being a fanatic palm strike sin,and the rest of the meta) "I play with honor".See HB isn't doomed after all /endsarcasm.Actually the game is pretty doomed.I've played about 20 RA matches seeing at most 2-3 decent (like in mediocre or max my level) players.(atilla saw EvIl monk though :p) Lilondra *panda* 05:14, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

To all the people who think grinding was increased: the Zquests give additional rep points for the specific titles, thus decreasing the need to grind them. Menagerie? Optional. Heavy Equipment Pack? 100% optional. Nicholas? Allowed players to grind for their titles whenever they want instead of just during festivals. Seriously, all of the free content adresses grinding, it doesn't increase it in any way. 145.94.74.23 22:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Pf course it is not grind, you have to make many different things to get ZCoins, but they take too much time, since they are not 'showy' stuff, but usedul stuff. And they are not optional. PvE skills are optional, you can bring other skills instead. Prestige armor, weapons and pets are optionnal, you can bring others instead. But the is no alternative other than 'nothing' for equipment packs. It's not like Charr Bags, that have the normal bags, you either have them, or have nothing in the slot. They are as optional as the pouch and the 10-slot bags. Being new doesn't make them less useful nor less needed, people have been asked for more storage since forever. MithTalk 22:49, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree, except that a small one can be bought at the merchant. The bigger versions are relatively easy to get (5 gold coins isn't THAT much) and only if you really need those 5 extra slots, which most people won't, then you'll have to spend some time to get those extra 10 golden coins. But 5, 10 and 15 slot bags can be aquired without too much effort. 145.94.74.23 10:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I liked the new features added to the update. The Zaishen Quest are a nice addition and add alot of replay value to missions and areas. On the other hand 15 gold zaishen coins is a bit rediculous for a 20 slot back pack. I would be a little more happy if they lowered the cost to 10. Other then that a good update IMO. Dero Ahmonati 16:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Linsey said they were overpriced, but they didn't want people to earn the best reward within a week. She said that if it proved to troublesome, they would consider lowering the price. 145.94.74.23 15:43, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, some people have them already, and they are selling them for insane prices, so that didn't work as they wanted. Now people that really needs them can't get them for a long time, and people that don't need them but get them are getting way too extra cash from them. MithTalk 11:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

You don't make a game fun by introducing imba things or more possibilities to get to something if it remains just as boring.You need to make it INTRESTING and cool to remove/reduce grind.And you do not do that with permanent invincibility trust me Lilondra *panda* 15:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

5 gold for a 15 slot. I have that already from casual play. You do not NEED 20 slot packs in any way shape or form. STFU about this already. Misery 15:15, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Take care to notice that this section is about 3 weeks old, not to mention that you need to multiply that 5 gold by however many character slots you have. Also, the majority of people are talking about the 20 slot bag. If it took you 3 weeks to get 5 gold from casual play, in order to equip 12 characters with the heavy pack, it would take 180 gold and 108 weeks, a little over 2 years. That's what people are complaining about. Editing here only contributes to further discussion, as you see here now. Furthermore, saying things like STFU is in no way conducive to intelligent discussion I'm afraid. 68.58.91.59 15:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

The 15 slot bag cannot be upgraded into a 20 slot bag. After getting to level 20 areas, do you get a 9..15 sword when the max is 15..22? No. You get directly 15..22 sword because you can't upgrade it later and it's relatively easy to get one. And people get the 5 slot bags knowing they can upgrade them with a rune, otherwise they'll directly get 10 slot bags. I'm not spending gold in something that is partial, incomplete and can't be completed. If there were a 10 gold upgrade to turn a 15-slot bag into a 20-slot one, I 'may' consider getting the 15 slot one, otherwise, I'm not getting all my armors with 45 armor when there is one with 60, and not getting a 10 slot equipment bag when there are ones with 20. MithTalk 16:40, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Are all your weapons and shields Tormented? No, because that would be dumb, you have maybe a couple and your other sets/other characters get less desirable skins. If you ever decide to get more high-end skins, you have to biff the old ones. A heavy equipment pack is exactly the same, I am saving for them because on the characters that need them, 20 slots will be a lot better than 15, but I don't expect all my characters to have tormented shields and weapons either. They are high end rewards and take a while to get, there are mid and low-end options available. I will get 1-3 Heavy Packs, then maybe some 15 slot packs, I'm using 5 slot packs for now. You can also sell packs when you are done with them as they are not customised. Misery 17:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

As it has become one of my daily habits, I'll now explain why the extensive grind needed for a heavy equipment pack is wrong. Tormented weapons are not only optional, but also pretty much useless. You can't come up with any situation in which a tormented weapon will give you any advantage over a collector weapon skin. (Even if you can, it will be very far-fetched.) However, equipment packs do give you an advantage, by letting you take back more items to the merchant, letting you acquire riches faster and more efficiently. You see what's wrong here? No-one wants to spend months farming Z-coins to obtain basic equipment that gives you perks over those who do not have it. That's what prestige items are for. --Adul 20:12, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Except that it's not basic equipment. It's elite equipment. There is simply no circumstance where having 5 extra slots will make a noticable difference, since there are no farms in which you never get a chance to meet a merchant long before you're full. And in the rare circumstance that that DOES happen, those 5 additional slots will contain maybe 500 gold at max in loot. 145.94.74.23 14:56, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Yes, and that's exactly the reason why I'm promoting the campaign to have it severely reduced in cost. Grinding for equipment has been unknown so far in Guild Wars. --Adul 13:09, 25 May 2009 (UTC)