Talk:Minion

We need some screenshots or renders of the various types of minion there are ;) --Gummy Joe 21:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I've posted links to minion pages, and those minion pages that are as of yet unstarted I have taken the liberty to start. - - Arkhar 02:07, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Minion stats research

Minion damage vs. AL 60 target dummies
Level	0	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19
Bone Minion	0	1	1-2	1-3	2-4	2-6	3-8	3-9	4-11	5-12	6-15	6-16	7-19	7-21	8-23	-	-	-	-	-
Jagged Horror	0	1	1-2	2-3	2-5	3-5	4-6	4-8	4-9	6-11	6-17	7-18	8-22	9-25	10-27	11-32	13-35	14-41	-	-
Shambling Horror	-	1	1-2	1-4	2-4	3-5	3-6	4-11	5-12	-	6-17	7-20	8-21	10-26	11-29	12-33	13-36	15-39	16-46	18-51
Vampiric Horror	-	1-2	1-3	2-5	3-7	3-9	4-8	5-10	7-14	-	8-23	9-24	11-26	11-30	12-31	13-35	15-42	15-44	17-47	19-50
Bone Horror	-	1	1-2	2-5	3-7	3-9	4-11	5-12	6-15	-	8-22	9-23	10-27	11-31	12-34	13-35	13-41	15-43	17-49	18-52
Bone Fiend	-	1	1-3	2-4	3-5	3-9	4-11	5-13	6-16	-	8-22	9-24	10-28	11-30	12-35	13-36	14-41	15-44	17-49	18-51
Flesh Golem	-	-	-	5-10	8-16	-	10-19	12-27	-	16-34	19-42	-	23-46	26-50	-	32-69	34-74	-	39-89	41-96
Level	20	21	22	23	24	25	26	27	28	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-
Flesh Golem	-	50-105	53-110	-	54-124	56-126	58-131	-	63-144	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-	-

Minion	Levels	Rank 16 Deathly Swarm damage (base damage 94 cold)	Approximate armor level	Approximate armor formula
Flesh Golem	3, 26	201, 35	16, 117	Level*4.4+3
Bone Horror, Shambling Horror, Vampiric Horror	1, 18	227, 76	9, 72	Level*3.7+5
Jagged Horror	0, 16	244, 86	5, 65	Level*3.75+5
Bone Fiend	1, 18	240, 104	6, 54	Level*2.825+3
Bone Minion	0, 13	261, 135	1, 39	Level*3
Celestial Horror	25	48	99	N/A

I did some extensive minion damage research today, here are the results. -- Gordon Ecker 07:29, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I did more research on damage using Deathly Swarm at rank 16 to determine armor and Taste of Death to determine Health. All minions have level*20+80 Health, and the armor research results are above. -- Gordon Ecker 09:52, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Did you use logarithms to determine armour in that last part? Because I'm getting 72 armor for a level 18 Horror, which is also the accepted value, via the following calculation: Damage Modifier = 2^((60-AL)/40); 76/94 = 2^((60-X)/40); .8085=2^((60-X)/40); log0.8085=((60-X)/40)log2; 40(log0.8085)/log2=60-X; -12.27=60-X; X=72.27; AL = ~72 I haven't checked the other values, but this may cause slight changes here and there in your results. -- Arkhar 22:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I just used a spreadsheet to generate a table of damage multipliers and picked whichever armor value most closely matched the data. -- Gordon Ecker 04:33, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

73 may have been the closest arithmetically or geometrically, but in this case we want the number that is exponentially closest, which I believe to be 72. In any case, the number you got was close enough to allow you to generate what appears to be a sound formula, so the number is accurate enough. -- Arkhar 05:37, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I've recalculated the armor starting with the base damage and estimated armor, you're right about level 18 horrors having 72 armor, the others match my previous calculations. The damage vs. a level 16 Jagged Horror was a transcription error, I've added the correct value. -- Gordon Ecker 05:43, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Great, thanks. -- Arkhar 00:34, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Minion AI

I don't mean to whine, but isn't it about time minions got an AI improvement? Sure, they're not supposed to be little Einsteins, but even your average housefly understands that to reach something on a cliff top, you don't stand at the base and stare up at it. I'm a minion master, and I just can't help feeling like this is getting neglected amid the waves of skill updates which, incidentally, don't seem to be doing much good.69.40.116.142 22:57, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. — ク Eloc 貢 23:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Sooo ture yo loose your whole army until you go up thier kill them all and than they will realise "OMG THEIR DEAD ok back to following the master" but hey if you were undead would you really bother to go up that hill or around that obsticle The Golden Arrow 18:59, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

If you can make them walk around, you can make them walk around a tree. -- Arkhar 04:10, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

They don't exactly have brains, do they?68.78.136.130 22:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

If I'm ever attacked by zombies, I'll be sure to walk to the top of a hill. --RoyHarmon 19:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it would be reasonable for minions to respond to their controller's calls. -- Gordon Ecker 01:43, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

You can imagine the minion factory teams in HA being able to get all their minions on one target then remove soa form it and it just kersplode? it's bad to make them follow commands. 90.206.224.62 22:57, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

It would help if there was a 10% chance per minion or something. Maybe they would have that rare chance to respond or attack other people the team is attacking (monkey see, monkey do). I mean they are the master after all. 64.222.106.112 03:47, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Integrating a chance wouldn't solve the problem. I'd like to see Minions return to their master at a certain distance. It'd really solve a lot of the issues mentioned. ··· Danny Pew Pew 21:15, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Why they arn't listed as allies

Since during the Gyala hatchery mission, the dead allies (young turtles) are ressurected after the cutscene, it would seem that dead allies are also ressurected. Could this be a reason why minions arnt listed as allies, coupled with the fact that it would be a long list and constant updating? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.78.136.130 (talk).

I agree on the 'long list' part, but the constant updating already takes place. But actually, I don't know any reason why they don't show up on the list as allies. (Besides, you can only resurrect those with a corpse, right?) File:User Horsedrowner avatar.jpg horsedrowner 06:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

ya is there a way to make their health show up or something, i hate that if i want to put a spell on them i have to target them manualy --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.236.185.58 (talk).

Only by holding the mouse over them. -- Gordon Ecker 02:09, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Degeneration corrections

I did some testing. Both the 20 degeneration cap and the 84 second claims are bogus. Natural degeneration kills low level minions faster than high level minions, and appears to be uncapped. I stacked over 30 regeneration on an old minion with no effect on the rate of health loss. -- Gordon Ecker 08:53, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

I left a Rt/N Minion Bomber alone with lvl 10 bone horrors for 4 hours. When I left it was taking 12 seconds for the minions to degen to 50% Health. When I came back after 4 hours it was STILL taking 12 seconds to degen to 50% health. I'm pretty sure there is a cap on natural minion degen, it is not limitless. Druid 09:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Would it not be best to assume the degen is handled in the same way as players degen, the regen you apply is taken into account first and then the degen, which is capped at -10 pips if i remember correctly, in that case if you stack 30 regen on a minion all the degen would appear as still -10 if the developers are smart and have set degen to some crazy number like 999 or something. because 30 - 999 is -969, therefore as only a max of -10 can appear -10 is what appears?--Whisperwind 12:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I meant by uncapped. Minions can accumulate more than 10 pips of degeneration, but, like everything else in the game, they can't be affected by more than 10 pips of net degeneration. -- Gordon Ecker 02:33, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

I read the statement on degeneration on the page I was also confused until testing it out. It appears the game caps degeneration at 10 for minions, but remembers it's stacked degeneration.

You can tell this pretty clearly with two necromancer spells: Verata's Sacrifice and Blood of the Master. If you keep the minions alive for about 3 mins or so all at different times coming into existence, buff them back upto full health and you'll notice a consistent 10 health degeneration among all the minions while casting Blood of the Master. Now apply verata's sacrifice and you'll notice different degeneration on the different minion groups(assuming you haven't sat there for 10 mins otherwise their degeneration could be over 20 degeneration and buffing only +10 would not be able to show this.

This is pretty interesting to note, becuase verata's sacrifice comparatively is stronger early on, while blood of the master is more effective if the minion master is attempting to maintain the minions indefinitely.97.77.48.77 08:12, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Minion Absorption

Is there such a thing? and where could I find out more information about it, I know a few people use minions to combat the mursaats attacks but I was wondering if it is a minion specific ability or just the size of the part divides the damage? --Whisperwind 11:12, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Critical Hit

Can minions critical hit? I'm just wondering if "Go for the Eyes!" will work with minions. Blood Red Giant 09:35, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

GftE does work with minions, and they can critical hit. Don't expect a massive damage boost, though, as their crits don't automatically deal max damage. Vili 10:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Awesome, thank you. I'm using it in a new build of mine, and since my new build involves 47 minions.... lol Blood Red Giant 10:15, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Just went through the articles, quick note and a question

Pending the page, the notes vary. For Bone Horror and Bone Fiend: Behavior Like all minions, they will attack any enemy without command, and it is impossible to disengage them. ---

Bone Minion has no behavior. ---

For Vampiric Horror: Behavior Like all minions, Vampiric Horrors will attack any enemy that comes within a certain distance of them. If you attack an enemy outside of the Vampiric Horrors' Aggro range, they will move to attack them, unless you attack with a spell, in which case they will stay where they are. They will also not move when being hit by AoE spells. ---

For Shambling Horror and Jagged Horrors, there is no behavior on how they attack or target. ---

And no behavior on the Celestial Horror and Flesh Golem. ---

Now back to the subject I really came here for. I've been doing a lot of Alliance Battling, and I've been able to keep Warriors off me. But every time there is a Minion Master around me, I'm getting knocked down by the Minions, speaking no one else is around and able to knock me down. Necromancer runs off, and I'm usually solo capping because the others are dead. And the Minion Master didn't have Flesh Golem, but instead Aura of the Lich. Was there an update, or is something wrong?--iRathur 17:53, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

The Kurzick Army Elementalists and Luxon Army Elementalists have Teinai's Wind and Lightning Surge, those skills could be knocking you down. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 07:17, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I haven't Alliance Battled again recently, but I do know the Minion Master was outside of the mob in the middle of the map trying to cap a Shrine I had just captured. I don't know what the Kurzick Maps are called, much less describe properly. It was at the shrine with Rangers near the Luxon Base with a small stream leading down the left side of the map. So I highly doubt it was a Kurzick Elementalist.--iRathur 02:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

If it was before the December 11th update, you could've been knocked down by Weaken Knees. It also could've been caused by Gale, it doesn't deal any damage or inflict any persistent debuff, so it won't show up in the Damage Monitor or Effects Monitor. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

That's probably it, Gale. N/E is quite common now. Thanks!--iRathur 19:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Decomposition rate

Given that "At level 18, Bone Fiends live for 1 minute 24 seconds", I wonder if we can figure out the interval between degeneration increases. should be the equation needed, with being the maximum degeneration reached and being the time spent at each level of degeneration. ··· cedave 15:59, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Parties!

Should a note be on the page that minions are in their own party? I don't remember if each minion master has their own party or not (I think they do). The way to test is get two minion masters and use Seed of Life on a minion: if it heals both MM's minions, then they are not split. <>Sparky, the Tainted 14:14, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Your logic's a bit faulty. Seed of Life heals your party members when the minion (ally) is hit. However, I think I know what you mean, and here's my best explanation: Minions are collectively treated as allies and one person using Blood of the Master will heal all allied minions within radar range. ··· Danny Pew Pew 16:36, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Members of the same party seem to share aggro with eachother, if one monster in a group aggroes, the entire group aggroes, and if one party member attacks or gets attacked by a monster, all the heroes and henchmen will react to it. Minions seem to aggro independently. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:51, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Seed of Life heals the target's party members, not the caster's. I accidentally used Seed of Life on a minion once (I only had one minion master), and it healed all of the minions. -~=Ϛρѧякγ (τѧιк) 20:28, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Can someone explain this to me?

...'although they are affected by the 10 net degeneration cap, their "base" degeneration appears to be able to increase indefinitely.
That to me, reads a bit contradictory. My comprehension might be off but it looks like it says "It doesn't go past the 10 degeneration, but it does... indefinitely. I'm confused. I want to know exactly what makes them degenerate faster. The longer they live, or the more you have?-- anguard 16:01, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

I think it means externally inflicted degeneration (e.g. Life Transfer, bleeding) is capped at 10 pips but their own natural degeneration (caused by the length of their existence) has no cap. --mira castillo 16:09, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Ah, okay. Thanks.-- anguard 16:13, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

The game limits the amount of regeneration / degeneration to 10 pips. However, you can have more regen/degen than that, it just won't be expressed. This explains it better than I can <_<

"Health regeneration will stack to exceed ±10 pips, but the effect will be no greater than that of ±10 pips. For instance, if a target has -20 health regeneration they will lose health at the rate of -10 pips, and if they use a +10 Healing Breeze, they will still lose health at the rate of -10 pips."

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Health#Health_regeneration.2Fdegeneration

Also, the longer a minion lives, the more degeneration it has. The amount of minions you control has no effect on the degeneration of a minion. -- Chrono (talk) 16:14, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

That stuff I already knew, it was just the Minions I didn't get.-- anguard 16:39, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

But that's what the section you quoted is talking about... It's saying if you kept a minion alive for several hours (or some long amount of time) the minions would have a huge "base" degeneration (-50? -200? who knows), but that they are still affected by the -10 degen cap. Their degeneration doesn't function any different than any other characters / monsters / etc. -- Chrono (talk) 17:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

it would be interesting to figure out if there is a maximum degeneration cap. I'd assume that degeneration/regeneration is stored in a single byte, and likely 0 is 0, 1-127 or so is health gain, and 255-128 is health loss. If anyone wants to sit around with a minion for a couple hours with only direct healing and see if it ever stops losing health, that would tell us right away whether or not ANet included a solid degeneration cap, provided I'm correct about the regen/degen structure. This could also be used to figure out the period of time between degen "steps" using a modified version of the formula a few sections up. ··· Danny Pew Pew 17:38, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

All the same, Chrome, my confusion is quelled and my question was answered.-- anguard 22:54, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

For easy clarification: The degen they constantly get does not cap, however, only 10 is effective. EX: they have -21 degen, and you use a spell to give them +9, they will still be loosing 10. They have -11, you see -10, you give them +5, they are now at -6, even though you only saw -10. 74.134.133.158 00:20, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Minion Cap

should there be a note or trivia about there not being a minion cap at some point

What? There always is a minion cap :/--Unendingfear File:User Unendingfear Crane eats peanut.jpg 02:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Not true way back in Phrophecies there was no minion cap

Minion limit: bug or anomaly

I changed the bug note about the minion limit only being calculated when minions are created to an anomaly note because, to my knowledge, there is no official information on how the cap is supposed to work. The way it works now is actually relatively consistent with the inherent effects of other attributes, in that the caster's attribute level is only checked upon activation of a relevant skill, so even calling it an anomaly might be a bit too strong. --Irgendwer 02:09, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

this makes no sense at all minions arent skills and death magic clearly reads 'Without Death Magic, you can control no more than two undead servants. For every two ranks of Death Magic, you can control one additional undead servant.' it deos say what was teh inteintion so ill revert it back 127.0.0.1 02:14, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I said the behavior was consistent with skills. If you've enchanted someone and you get hit with Wail of Doom, the enchantment isn't affected. Similarly, if you're maintaining several minions, a Wail of Doom on you is not going to affect them either. I don't particularly care what the Death Magic description says because it wouldn't be the only attribute description with vital information left out. One could argue that it's the Death Magic description that is bugged. --Irgendwer 02:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

That's because Wail of Doom only effects future skills lol. 80.192.156.3 10:05, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

On occassion I have run a build with Aura of the Lich... another skill that increases death by +2 and my staff is 20% chance of +1 death... At times I am able to control 11 minions and I can achive bone horrow up to level 23.... I can retain those 11 minions up until I loose both of the +attribute enchantments... So even while Aura of the lich by itself will not allow me to have 11 minions I can maintain my 11 minions if that is the only enchantment that stays... MrPaladin † talk 11:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The bug should read something like "every time the number of minions is increased" because of skills that "steal" minions (in wich case the minions arent created). Unless, ofcourse, someone can proof that Verata's Aura for example ignores the minion cap. (KILL MementoMori 21:39, 27 February 2011 (UTC))

Staying back

Something needs to be done about the AI for minions, I keep finding that the minions my MM has end up sitting around behind me instead of fighting the enemies in front of us, they need to have the same function Heroes have, to which they attack when you do Zachariah Zuan. 14:55, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Player equivalence

I was thinking, how many players would a squad of 11 level 21 minions equal? I mean by damage output, meat shielding and so forth. A guildie of mine guessed 2-3, how near correct would this be? What about 12 level 22 minions? The latter is easy to achieve as well. Thanks. 91.154.212.254 19:04, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Keepin mind that external influence matters a lot here, a well-placed "Ebon Battle Standard of Honor", "Barbs", or "Mark of Pain" can increase their damage significantly. Also if the minions are healed is very important. If you heal 10 minions for 100 health each, well lets just say it can go into into obsene amounts of health. Without any external influence I'd say 11 minions of lvl 21 have the damage output of a single well-played player, or two lesser players (or ones with controlling skills like knockdown or AoE). The meatshield effect however, lets take a closer look at Bone Horrors (Aura of the Lich). Level 21 means 500 health and approximately 80 armor. Well, I'd say imagine 11 dervishes with blessed armor standing next to you! So there you have it, massive meat shield, with no damage output unless you help them a bit ;) I hope this helps friendly folks out here! (KILL MementoMori 19:20, 23 May 2011 (UTC))

Just skills

It says on page that minions take double holy damage from skills,but it isn't mentioned that attacks that deal holy dmg( Avatar of Balthazar ) or dmg from wands and staves that deal holy damage is doubled too...I haven't checked for the wands but pretty sure AoB attacks do double dmg. 95.180.76.188 23:48, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. I think that error occurred when that section was rewritten. --Silver Edge 07:15, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Image

if you press Y, there is a box that says minions.... but nothing appears there. Should this be added? - GreenEarth28

When there aren't any minions, that's exactly what I expect to see. I wouldn't remove a note if someone added it, but I doubt that it's necessary.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 00:49, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

I mean, even if there are minions, the box doesn't show a thing... maybe it was originally to be used as a minion count for all of your heroes and yourself? - GreenEarth28

They have to be YOUR minions. — Raine Valen 1:56, 7 Mar 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, unfortunately, it wasn't designed to show all minions; it only those for whom the player is master.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 09:36, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Precise data

I did a pretty lot of research within the last two days, because we (at the german GuildWiki) decided to merge our minion articles into one overview in the main minion article and so I wanted to recheck the data, especially because it looked as if it was simply copied from here (or another source) and seemed weird to me. The table I made for the german wiki can be found here and though I think it is at least partially language-independent, I'll translate it for you:

Minion	generating skills	Level at death magic rank 0..12..15..16	Attack speed [seconds]	Referring to minions created with death magic 16
				Damage range; critical maximum1	Armorlevel3	Health (formula: 20×Level + 80)
Bone Minion	Animate Bone Minions	0..10..12..13	3.1	7–15; 21 (blunt damage)	39 (2.91×Level + 1.25)	340
Bone Horror	Animate Bone Horror Aura of the Lich Malign Intervention	1..14..17..18	3,1	17–35; 49 (blunt damage)	72 (3.75×Level + 5)	440
Bone Fiend	Animate Bone Fiend	1..14..17..18	1,862	17–35; 49 (piercing damage, ranged)	54 (2.84×Level + 3.1)	440
Vampiric Horror	Animate Vampiric Horror	1..14..17..18	3,1	17–35; 49 (blunt damage)	72 (3.75×Level + 5)	440
Shambling Horror	Animate Shambling Horror	1..14..17..18	3.1	16–33; 46 (slashing damage)	72 (3.75×Level + 5)	440
Jagged Horror	indirect per: Animate Shambling Horror Jagged Bones	0..12..15..16	3.1	13–27; 38 (blunt damage)	65 (3.75×Level + 5)	400
Flesh Golem	Animate Flesh Golem	3..21..25..26	3.1	ca. 57–96; 1354 (slashing damage)	102 (3.75×Level + 5)	600
Celestial Horror	Star Servant	fixed 25	3.1	ca. 24–50; 714 (blunt damage)	fixed 99	fixed 580

1. Critical strikes will not always use upper damage range value, so they will spread over a range up to the here given maximum. However, the given range states the main damage since critical strikes are rather rare. The critical factor is the known √ 2.
2. Equals 3.1 with 40% IAS, thus 66.6% faster.
3. The fomulae are made to fit the armor values calculated by testing and give the correct value for all minions at every single death magic rank from 0 to 19. They do not claim to be the exact formula used ingame nor to be correct for higher ranks. Note that values are rounded half to even.
4. Rather few data was gathered for these values, so the actual range might be slightly wider.

If you want to check/recalculate my data, I can post it here. As stated above, two of the armor formulae look not that clean, but I was not able to find better values which were correct for all my 20 checked armor values. The tables you are currently using state several wrong values, especially at lower death magic ranks, they are partially off by a lot.

The damage type dealt is not that easy to check either, so I can't guarantee for 100% that they are all right (especially for the star servant), but – and the people who know my other contributions/posts hopefully agree – I am pretty accurate and careful when it comes to tests.

I can go through and correct your articles if you are content with my research etc., but everyone else may do so too, I don't reserve it or anything.

Any questions, suggestions or thoughts? – 23:08, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Ok, here comes the primary data:

I started to test death magic 12 minions with both inferno @20 (Glyph of elemental power and Double Dragon) and wild blow @12 axe as an E/W; the celestial with a necro though (see below), which gave me several armor values and convinced me that minions (at this rank at least) don't differ in elemental and physical resistance. Initially I planned just to present the death magic 12 armor level, but then decided take the full fun: Every minion type at every death magic rank from 0 to 19.

I tested in a kind of four parts:

1) Since Bone Horror, Vampiric Horror and Shambling Horror had the same armor (and level) at rank 12, I sacrificed three heros with BiP at the isle of the nameless, let a fourth hero summon each type once and killed him then too, while preparing inferno @20 (huge numbers are best for armor testing, since every single armor value get's his one unique damage value). Then used inferno – suprise – and always saw three identical damage values here.

2) Same setup used for Bone Minion, Bone Fiend and Jagged Horror (Taste of Death on Shambling Horror, summoned first). That gives four values at a time (two identical for Bone Minions), but is easy enough to read and remember for some seconds until it's written down and much more comfortable compared to zoning three times.

3) Flesh golem only, again inferno @20

4) Celestial Horror tested as a necro in raisu explorable. UA hero; masochism, deadly swarm (thus @18) and bip on myself (first run which was with swarm @16 I took wild blow too, so phys is checked). Fixed minion level so pretty easy, the 104 from the swarm @18 result in 52 damage which is unique to 99 armor (98→ ≈52.799, 99→ ≈51.891, 100→ =51).

I typed the rest in open office now and will just post a screenshot of the table, since I'm too lazy to type it twice and it's more accurate and easier that way. Picture, .ods table file

– 10:27, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Your data looks good, to me. I don't have any problem with you changing armor values, life, and attack damage on any page that you see they differ. I made my own spreadsheet for figuring out armor ratings, and it agrees with your numbers.

I'm curious about attack speeds, especially bone fiend's. For the other minions you have one number after the decimal place of accuracy, 3.1, while the wiki lists 3.17, but for bone fiends you have 1.86 and the wiki has 1.93. Is this based on an experiment, or the assumption that +40% IAS is a nice value for them to have? Manifold 13:57, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

I use a stop watch lying to my left at the "pc-and-other-stuff-corner" on my desk. I used single minions at the master of damage and payed attention to have the minion not swap the target. I started with taking the time for 10 hits, starting exactly the moment the first one hit and stopping at the eleventh. I kept getting 31 seconds (several times perfectly, though that watch has 0.1 second marks) which made me wonder first, but I accepted it. For the bone fiends I took two times, which resulted in an unsatisfying "1.8 to 1.9" on my slip of paper. After I had all regular minion types tested and only found that two speeds, I took the time for 100 attacks while healing the minion and the test enemy with heal area, so the minion could keep its target. I ended up with 310 and 186 seconds, both again perfect on the mark. First I thought the 186 might actually be a 185 for having a nicer value, but then I thought they might just have used an IAS and voila, 3.1 fastened by 66.666...% is perfectly 1.86. – 14:20, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Concerning the speeds once again: As one can find at Bone Horror, the last research was based on "attacks per minute" (19/60). Calculating back for fiends 1.93 suggests it comes from 60/31 = 1.935... Though this is fine for an impression and correct for everyday life questions, it is a bad idea if you aim for exact data. Since 60/3.1 is 19.35, it is perfectly understandable that a third of an attack can hardly be seen. For this reason it makes much more sense to aim for a clean attack number and leave the time to be crooked, since that value can handle it. For the visibility reason I did not try to stop the time for "actual" 10 or 100 attacks, but took the time between the clearly visible moments the minion hit the target. Consequently the first and last attack were only partially taken into account and I needed 11 and 101 attacks, but this method gives really unsettling precise values. – 15:17, 7 September 2011 (UTC)

energy

According to the MB ele in my party, minions have 50 energy. — Raine Valen 17:55, 12 Oct 2011 (UTC)

Yeah it appears that minions do have an energy pool - I tried using Ether Feast on one just now and got healed for the full amount. I wonder what energy regeneration they have... --Combatter 12:17, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I also wonder if the pool is fixed at 50 energy or whether it depends on their level --Combatter 12:18, 17 November 2011 (UTC)