Talk:War in Kryta/Walkthrough

Nice addition

Thanks, Jette 24.162.138.215 02:47, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

It's not really an addition, it's a subtraction. That article is getting too long. I'd rather we not need a ruddy flowchart in order to explain how to access content, but I guess ANet likes spaghetti quests. –Jette 02:52, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, the addition of your subtraction is a well needed improvement to the content. Thanks again. 24.162.138.215 02:59, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

And that's a problem, I'm afraid. We're a gfdl wiki, so you'll have to either attribute all the original authors or delte it and reqrite in your own words. (Unless that's what you did.) Backsword 22:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

The authors are attributed on the original page and I didn't make any changes to the content itself. Even if I did, there's a [diff] function on these wikis for a reason. A wiki qualifies as a singlular "work" with multiple sections under the GFDL and the technical measures in place make it nearly impossible to violate the license using Mediawiki. –Jette 02:35, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Salma's Quests

At which point are Salma's storyline-progressing quests available? I'm guessing after watching the Ebon Vanguard arrive in Lion's Arch? Someone who knows needs to mention it. Jafar 23:56, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

New dialogue

is this a new dialogue or did i miss sumthing on page? dialogue between Gwen, Lawrence Crafton, Nola Sheppard, Koga Sagewind, Dian Fermati in HoM --86.42.82.130 10:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there is new dialog and this page is also missing the Battle for lions arch stuff as well. Someone needs to update it.70.59.71.54 17:39, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Major overhaul

I did some major clean-up on the page, inspired by chatting with people in-game who found the walkthrough, but had trouble figuring out what to do and when. I made the following types of changes:

• Separated the Gwen/Thack sequence from WiK — they are related but not interdependent (you can do one without the other and in a variety of ways).
• Tried to put all pre-reqs together, so that they were easier to see (essentially, you need to own two campaigns and have finished EotN or Prophecies and Zinn's Task for WiK...and Wintersday for Gwen/Thack).
• Tried to simplify the sequence and listing of dialogues (it's still not consistently presented, but most of the repetitive language is gone).
• Renumbered so that "first..." is step #1 and so that the Salma quests have a sequence number as well.
• Separated out the action that the player must take from what the action unlocks (usually by indenting the unlocks).
• Separated the follow-up/post-war status from the actual walkthrough (and bulleted the "what stays the same" distinctly from "what returns to normal").

I am hoping that someone else can take things another step, as I'm sure the walkthrough is still more complicated than it needs to be.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

A small correction: I did not own eotn prior to last Wintersday, and yet I've seen the Gwen/Thackery through to his enrolment with the WiK. G R E E N E R 06:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Wow — so as long as s/o in your party has done the Wintersday quests? That's good to know.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:54, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I self-triggered it. I know that it worked at some point after finishing the Charr side of eotn, but it may have been the completion of Fire and Pain which started it. I have a character who will finish that quest sometime in the next couple of days (when I have time). I'll get back to this page then. G R E E N E R 17:49, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I also just found this Gwen and Thackeray#Guild Wars Beyond, which is a bit vague with its use of "or". I'll see if I can change it. Plus, I'm quite sure I've seen the "Post Wintersday" dialogue as the first dialogue after finishing eotn (and starting WiK?)... I'll figure it out... G R E E N E R 17:57, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

So just to type it here, Fire and pain was not sufficient to start G&T dialogue for me, but completing eotn was; again, without doing any wintersday quests. The WiK flow chart describes it very well. Doing G&T dialogue very unlikely needed to complete WiK, though I have not tested to see if that would exclude the player from the scavenger hunt (though I'm guessing it would). G R E E N E R 09:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I can confirm that no dialogue means no parcels. I cannot confirm whether it also means, as Musha says that you are unable to trigger the quest series beginning with the assassinations. I suspect Musha is correct, tho, which means that this article will require modification. I'm going to update the article assuming the dialogues are required but in a way that keeps the parallel paths distinct (that will also make it easier to separate out the paths if they are also not as interdependent as the chart reads).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 15:49, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to hear you lost out on those parcels. All in the name of accuracy, eh? G R E E N E R 20:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Testing results

I took a toon through WiK to test various assumptions in our walkthrough and flow chart. I will try to keep evidence distinct from suppositions, but will note confirming and or falsifying facts.

Controls

• This toon has finished eotn, but not prophecies. It has received Zinn's Task, but has not completed any of the quests.
• This toon has not participated in any Wintersday activities, including the Gwen/Thack ones.
  • I have another toon that has completed WiK and did all 2009 Wintersday activities (but none of the 2008 ones).
• The test-subject toon did not visit the HoM at anypoint until after the Battle for LA.

Test results

1. I invited another player who didn't own eotn to join (to rezone after each dialogue). As expected, Shining Blade Camp does not spawn. (It's regular Talmark.)
2. I "listened" to first three dialogues w/o visiting Trial of Zinn or HoM. As expected, Livia was not yet be able to recruit Zinn.
3. After listening to the trial of Zinn:
   • I exited eotn outpost; no Livia, no Zinn, no recruitment.
   • Lion's Arch Keep was available. (Forgot to check if it was available before the trial.) --> This is different from the flow chart.
   • The Wanted bounties were also available. (Consistent w/LAK, but inconsistent w/flow chart and walkthrough)
   • Courier Falcon & Shining Blade allies available --> not explained clearly in walkthrough, not covered in flow chart
4. Doing the required initial three bounties unlocked Riverside Assassination.
5. I could get all the quests up through Temple of the Intolerable. Triggering "Mustering a Response" requires exiting the keep an additional time (this is not mentioned in the walkthrough).
   • In other words, the explicit trigger for Mustering is a dialogue not listed in the current walkthrough, where Dinas appears to discuss matters with Salma.
6. I was able to complete the Battle without ever seeing Evennia recruit the Falcons.
   • I can't say that I checked every NPC (we were, of course, quite busy), but I believe all NPCs listed on the BfLA quest article were present. If there are Ebon Falcon specific allies on that list, I am not sure who they are and therefore was not able to confirm with 100% certainty that the EFs are present even if not recruited explicitly.
7. After completing Battle, I visited HoM for the first time. As expected, there's bad news for Gwen (and a promotion), but no chance of participating in the picnic scavenger hunt.

More data

requirements for Gwen/Thack dialogues and Scavenger hunt (added 09:05, 7 October 2010 (UTC))

I was able to call Thack back from wherever he is hiding en route to GW Beyond: Cantha by accompanying another toon to their HoM.

• This partner toon had finished eotn, but not prophecies.
• Similarly, for this toon, no jingle pets spawned in Gwen's Garden, indicating that they did not finish the Wintersday quest sequence.
• After listening to the dialogues, Thackeray spawns outside eotn outpost even though he has already disappeared according to the storyline"

Conclusions

I think the requirements are somewhat simpler than we have presented them:

• To participate in WiK requires owning Proph, EotN and finishing EotN or Proph + Zinn's task.
• To start and finish the storyline quests, you have to listen to four dialogues (3 in SB camp, 1 trial).
  • To trigger Mustering, you listen to another dialogue in LA Keep, after clearing the Temple.
• In addition, you can participate in an independent Ebon Vanguard storyline that involves Gwen, Thackeray, a picnic, and Evennia recruiting the Falcons for the defense of LA.
  • This sequence has certain pre-requisites that we haven't fully determined.
  • This sequence cannot be started after completing WiK (I'm 90% certain of this, but I have 1-2 more things to try).

(added 09:05, 7 October 2010 (UTC))

• To participate in the Gwen/Thack picnic scavanger hunt
  • Your toon needs to have completed eotn and has started (completed?) one of the Wintersday quests involving Gwen/Thack or
  • You need to accompany a toon that has done so.

I am not going to immediately change anything in the walkthrough, but instead give these results a chance to get questioned here and/or confirmed by others. However, I think we can simplify the walkthrough enough to present a short version in the main article (and use this subpage to note all of the intricacies and nuances that most players won't care about).

 — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 11:19, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

So you are saying even if you don't watch the dialog in the shining blade camp where livia recurits zinn still allowed you to access the lion's arch keep? I did notice that I was able to skip the ebon falcon dialogs and picnic and still be able to do the battle for LA. I'm not sure if there is an account wide effect or not as I watched all the dialogs on another character previously and collected all the items for the picnic as well. --Lania 20:46, 06 October 2010 (UTC)

No, you must watch Livia recruiting Zinn. However, as you noticed, you do not need to watch Evennia recruit the Ebon Falcons. In other words, the WiK sequence is completely independent of the Ebon Falcon/Gwen/Thack sequence. It doesn't seem to be account wide, but I only have the one account, so mebbe you are right.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 21:30, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

To add here, the ebon falcons are not account wide in that regard, TEF. My first and only character got right up to the Battle for Lion's Arch without me watching Gwen and Thackery, and I likely could have done the battle without watching them. G R E E N E R 21:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not account wide. You have to watch Livia getting Zinn and Dialogues 1, 2 and 4 before you get access to the Keep with each character. Just tested that yesterday. And my gripes with the WiK walktrough the way it is atm: For someone who's never done WiK it seems like you have to do steps 4 and 5 before you can do step 6. In step 3 it says that dialogue 4 unlocks the keep with the the bounties which implicitely tells you that you can skip steps 4 & 5 but for new players I would emphasize it explicitely. 84.161.82.141 21:47, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with you: the walkthrough as currently structured is still too confusing. However, I was reluctant to do another major overhaul without more input (a lot of work went into the original walkthrough and the flow-chart). I think we can make things simpler, put the key elements on the main page (instead of this sub page), and turn this page into clarifications about the nuances. In other words, ideally, players would not need to visit the details unless they ran into trouble getting something to trigger.

I think the key things that people want to know are:

1. What are the prerequisites to starting WiK? (complete eotn or proph+zinn; own both)
2. What do I have to do to unlock LA Keep & the daily SB bounties? (watch SB camp dialogues, watch Livia recruit Zinn)
3. What do I have to do to unlock the WiK storyline and get to the epic battle for LA. (same, plus 3 wanteds)
4. Is there anything else? Is it optional? (Gwen/Thack storyline requires owning eotn and completing it, visit HoM after LA Keep open but before Mustering [when Thack disappears]).
5. What is this scavenger hunt and how to I get paper-wrapped parcels? (participate in Gwen/Thack storyline)

The reason I put up the wall of text above was to make sure we don't use anecdotes alone to determine what is absolutely required; there seems to have been a lot of contradictory information published.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 22:02, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

This is strange

My ranger did not do any of the stuff necessary to start War in Kryta (except beat Prop) but he has access to the keep and the shining blade quests. Did they make it account wide not character? Ramei Arashi 01:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

It's not account wide (I just tested this with a toon). There are some required activities. However, I used a Canthan-born character and I carefully tested the pre-reqs listed above. Did you use a Tyrian-born one? Are you positive that you didn't participate in one or more of the quests with someone else? (I suppose it's also possible that there was something in this week's release that adjusted the requirements, but that seems unlikely.) Can you compare the various requirements from the flow chart and above with what your toon has accomplished? Maybe there's an alternative storyline to reach the keep.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:20, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I didn't think I took ranger to get the dialogues I know I didn't do the Thackery/Gwen stuff on the him. I tried to access keep on necromancer. He couldn't do it. He hasn't beaten NOX though. Ramei Arashi 03:04, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I also had access to Trial of Zinn despite not having completed neither eotn nor zinn's task on my character. I had completed prophecies though. Could this have anything to do with the fact that the party leader had completed eye of the north? - Tulen elementti (talk) 13:23, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Tulen: what had your character completed? I've tested a lot of the possible combinations, but not all. I don't think that you can tag along with an eligible oon (leader or not); when I've tried that, the spawns are ordinary (not WiK). My guess is that perhaps simply meeting Zinn is sufficient after completing Prophecies (and you can do this by starting Zinn's task).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:03, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Weird.

I finished Thackeray and Gwen and evennia recruited the ebon vanguard. By this thing i should be able to enter the keep, but i can't. Anyone have any ideas? DemonicFahrir 17:38, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

You need Livia to recruit Zinn (Evennia & Ebon Vanguard are not essential to continuing — I have a toon that has done everything else but that).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:09, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Thought i did that.. lets have a look DemonicFahrir 19:51, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

You were right TEF, forgot the asura thing. I like Livia's negotiation methods DemonicFahrir 20:31, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Glad you got it sorted :-) (And yeah, Livia is not just a pretty face.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:42, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

Note: You must listen to every last bit of dialog or the Keep will not unlock. Check the dialog txt before zoning to Lion's Arch.

For Convenience

Can we list witnessing the Trial of Zinn as the first step? It would spare us a second trek to the Shining Blade camp and let us see all 4 dialogues in quick succession. I know it already says that you can see the trial first as a side note, but if you were like me and went down the list 1 item at a time... >_> Jinx of Fortuna 10:44, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a reasonable request. Perhaps a notice at the top? --BriarThe Spider 10:48, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I've re-ordered it. I can't think of any advantage of visiting the camp first and the trial after.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:14, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

If we want the most direct path to completion, then we could take #s 4 and 5 away too–alistic 16:25, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I think marking them as optional will be better, as people are likely to be annoyed at missing out on the unwrapped parcels if they skip those two. (Thanks for catching #5--I forgot to mark it as optional.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:45, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Dunno if 4 and 5 are optional now, you must enlist the help of the ebon vanguard.–alistic 02:11, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I have a toon that didn't enlist their help originally. I'll let you know what happens.

Regardless, they are still optional for WiK (unless ANet changed that); they are likely required for HotN.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:15, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Considering Mustering a Response uses Langmar and Thackeray as allies, I would think that enlisting the vanguard would be mandatory for that part.-- Pyron Sy 02:20, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, except I didn't recruit them with that particular toon; I skipped it deliberately to see what would happen (see my notes above) and went all the way through Battle without a problem. The only time there was trouble was for the Picnic — I had to initiate the setup with another player; but that was done after completing everything else.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Today, with the new addition of The War in Kryta, you have to do the scavenger hunt & the see the Langmar & Evennia dialogue to enlist the aid of the ebon vanguard.–alistic 04:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

That might be what is claimed by the developers, but given the types of bugs we are seeing today, I would prefer that we test that this is so before removing the "optional" label.

When I went out to Ice Cliffs with this toon, the EV Scout was not available (although the Dwarf one was). I returned to HoM and saw a repeat of Gwen getting the news that Keiran was missing or dead. Still no EV Scout. Then toon returned to HoM to see Keiran! He ran the first dialogue of the Picnic preparations, but none of the rest.(Even after rezoning, re-tooning.) Exit again to Ice Cliffs and now the EV Scout was avail and the toon could begin HotN.

So, not sure what would happen if another toon decides to skip the EV recruitment after today's (or tomorrow's) update. I will have some more toons to bring through, but I'm not sure I want to risk them losing out on something to retest this. I'm basically a "trust, but verify" type of player when it comes to this type of stuff — until someone confirms that the absence of EV recruitment prevents you from moving forward in WiK, I don't think we should document that it is required.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:35, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Previously, we could get the Inquisitor quests without recruiting the ebon vanguard, but now, the only bounty that shows up is the daily wanted bounty. Until you recruit the EV, then the quests appear (three guildies today started a new WiK, they tried to do the usual way (Zinn's Trial → dialogues → inquisitors → quest chain, but after the dialgoues the inquisitor quests didn't show up)–alistic 06:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you saying that everyone who recruits the EV can successfully move forward and everyone who fails to do so cannot? If that's true, I withdraw my objection because that constitutes sufficient testing. (I hadn't seen anyone post those details before — all I saw was that peeps thought things were bugged b/c they couldn't get past the Inquisitors.) (Sigh. I wish ANet had done this weeks ago — would have saved me the trouble of doing all that testing... and spending the time documenting it.) Thanks for following up, Ballistic.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:56, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Yup, that's exactly what I'm saying, with the new update today, the Inquisitor quests don't show up until you recruit the EV.–alistic 06:59, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Move? or Remove

I think there's very little on this page that ought to remain. Instead of moving the page, I think we should rewrite it from scratch to fit in with the new overarching The War in Kryta. Although some copy/paste might be helpful, far too much of the current walkthrough is specific to conditions/requirements that were true before the update of 18 November.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:31, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Neither, the War in Kryta series of events and quests NEEDS a textual Walkthrough. I see nothing wrong with this page as it is. Anon-e-mouse 00:37, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, there's a need for a textual walkthrough. However, things have changed since the release of TWiK umbrella quest; details on this page have changed. Also: isn't it more confusing than necessary to have one walkthrough here and a different one at The War in Kryta?  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:39, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

I vote rework. Why? The War in Kryta quest allows a person to skip a lot of the content and ignores a lot of the side content. This page, along with Peacekeeper Encounters (which should be moved to "War in Kryta encounters" imo) should be reworked to have a detailed explanation and how-to-recreate guide for all of the War in Kryta. This includes the optional and otherwise-mandatory things that the quest ignores (the quest cuts out a lot of dialogues), such as the progression of enemy changes from Peacekeeper to White Mantle throughout Kryta, Evennia's appearance and subsequent disappearance in Ascalon, the change of location for the peacekeeper bosses, and the random encounter dialogues that I mentioned above - this includes both when these things are taking place during the progression of the content, and how to deal with them/trigger them. -- Konig/talk 05:03, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I would like to suggest reworking the War in Kryta page as well, as it looks unnecessary cluttered (I'm sure it can be better organized); I'd like to see if War in Kryta/Checkpoint dialogue could be combined with the encounters page as well - depends on how the encounters on the non-general articles are (re)structured. And to clarify about my previous post, regarding the encounters page, I'd like to see the dialogue list alongside the location of the encounter. Effectively, I'd like to create an encounter page equivalent to War in Kryta dialogues. -- Konig/talk 05:24, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

There's a lot of ideas there; I agree with the primary one, that we re-work and re-organize. I would like to see walkthrough completely distinct from the gory details — most people only want to know which step follows the last one, which bit of dialogue is their queue to exit stage-right, and so forth. On the other hand, there's a core group of players (and contributors) who are keen to see the richness of the lore and story that emerges from paying attention to details; I think we can and should cater to this view point as well. I think we should end up with:

• Quest/Walkthrough (minimum details) (note what unlocks when)
• Do-it-yourself/walkthrough (minimum details) (note what unlocks when)
• Full set of dialogue; full set of encounters (might be two articles)
• Overview only: what's different from Prohp/EotN, limited amount of "what's new" (located at War in Kryta)
• Lore in gory detail (how WiK fits into the rest of the storyline, what we learn)

There's a huge amount of content to cover and I think a half-dozen articles is about right so that those who want to learn everything are able to, but those who just want the tl;dr can find that easily.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:59, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

That's more or less what I was meaning. That last point, btw, would be covered here and at a as-of-yet-unmade "Storyline of Beyond" with a "War in Kryta" section. In the end, it looks like we're looking at 7 articles (War in Kryta, The War in Kryta, War in Kryta/walkthrough, War in Kryta dialogues, War in Kryta (event), War in Kryta encounters, and Storyline of Beyond), all but 1 are made, 3 needs reworking (maybe just 2) and one needs major expanding. I'll try to get around to doing some edits/making a draft for something. -- Konig/talk 07:08, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Drafts would be good (for anything that gets overhauled). I also think we should put the do-it-yourself walkthrough some place else, maybe even on TWiK's page (or subpage), otherwise those two articles are more likely to get out of synch (and confuse folks). I'm good with using (event) for the Lore article.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:31, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with using the quest's page for the non-quest form of WiK's walkthrough, as it's not part of the quest and would prove even more confusing when people cannot get dialogues (or rather, cannot get them in the right order). I think this is perfectly fine, or to use the actual content page - though that may make it a bit too large (hence why it was split in the first place!) -- Konig/talk 08:14, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Available

When do the 3 Inquisitors Quests come available? I'm already in the keep but they aren't offered there. I can accept the daily Wanted quest though. I haven't completed the scavenger hunt yet, is this necessary? --145.99.177.157 15:42, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you need to complete the scavenger hunt. Also, please remember to sign your posts. --Manassas 13:12, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! --145.99.177.157 15:42, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Zinn's Task Required?

I have 3 toons at various stages in WIK. None of them have done Zinn's Task or even have the quest and only 1 has MOX. At what point is Zinn's Task required?--174.100.253.161 03:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Zinn's Task isn't necessarily required. In order to watch the trial, you must have completed either Zinn's Task or The Knowledgable Asura arc of EoTN.-- Pyron Sy 04:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Stuck

I have completed Riverside assassination, but I don't get the follow up quest, any solutions? Also I can do the wanted: Inquistor bauer, lovisa and lashona quests again, don't think that is supposed to happen.

Well, when the War in Kryta quest was released, a bug accompanied it where those quests were re-given if you've already done them... but I thought it was fixed. Best just do those three again (and look on the bright side - more rewards!). -- Konig/talk 19:10, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Requirements: Varied or wrong?

On a brand new [Prophecies] toon, gone to eotn at lvl 10, done the Asura and Vanguard portions, I've received A Good Deed at lvl 19 without having completed anything else at all. I've done some of eotn, not all of it, on other chars as well and been able to get entireley through WiK. More than enough to convince only the Asura and Vanguard storylines are the only requirements to begin WiK imo.

The walkthrough was written earlier (I'm not sure if the pre-reqs lessened or if it was always that way and we didn't notice). I've ammended the text to reflect your experience. Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:16, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Bug?

I didn't get to listen the first dialogue in Talmark Wilderness. I did it as the walkthrough says. I didn't enter talmark before (it was unexplored, actually), so I don't see the issue. For reference: I completed "The Knowledgeable Asura", I accepted the quest "A Good Deed" and talked to Gwen inside HoM but didn't complete it with Keiran. I also didn't see the trial of Zinn, and I don't have Zinn's Task completed.