Talk:Cracked Armor

Initial discussion

If it can't lower it below 60 would this not work on casters? Or it cant have a total of -60 armor? I know no one can really answer this just something that stuck out to me...lol ~ Reaper 23:58, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

It would still effect them, if I read correctly, but only as much as bonus armor(monk shields?) is concerned. Also, it counts as a condition for all of those fun skills. Kite 00:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Maybe it means that the foe must have a minimum AL of 60 for it to work, so that way, you can't combine it with Weaken Armor--§ Eloc § 00:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't see the point of this; the best IAS in the game just got a whole lot worse if warriors can alluva sudden have 60 armor and get wand-spiked (shrinking armor + shatter delusions)... it would be more devastating than deep wound. I don't like this at all :/ -Auron 00:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Honestly, the best IAS in the game has been pretty bad since flail came along. --Pork soldier 21:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I think there are only FOUR ways to inflict Cracked Armor in PvP so far. The Mesmer Hex is probably the most likely. Take that in mind. --Longasc 09:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Speaking of Frenzy...well, not quite Frenzy, since that doesn't exactly reduce your armor. Healing Signet does though; If I'm a warrior and then I got hit with Cracked Armor, and then I used Healing Signet, would my armor be 60 or 40 while using the signet?24.186.207.198 21:51, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Cracked Armor is a good idea but leaves a space to be nerfed to the point that the dervish was. --SlashingSword 00:25, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

You can't nerf cracking armor. It's a condition, not a skill.--§ Eloc § 00:26, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The point of Cracked Armor is to allow you to deal with Heavy Armored targets like Warriors and Paragons, it's still a condition and it can get removed, it also works on every class because there are skills on all Physicals that use Cracked Armor. It's pretty much a counter to all passive armor buffs. ~Izzy @-'---- 00:27, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

But let me get this straight Izzy, you couldn't combine it with Weakened Armor on a Spellcaster, right?--§ Eloc § 00:42, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

If Cracked Armor would bring the target below 60 AL, then Cracked Armor has no effect. Fairly simple, I'd think. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 00:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

No, I think Cracked Armor means your foe has to have minimum 60 AL for it to work.--§ Eloc § 00:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

...Go back and read what Aiiane just posted. -Auron 00:50, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Just because Aiiane thinks that's what it is, generally doesn't mean she's right.--§ Eloc § 01:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

if you read the page, Cracked Armor does not drop your target's armor below 60. Also Cracked Armor would be a great condition to inflict to any profession as it will bring AL down from insignia and shield bonuses and for those pesky PvE foes. Not to mention its effect on PvP. --Bane of Worlds 01:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Then that means it can't be used on Spellcasters, how pointless...--§ Eloc § 01:30, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Hardly. Spellcasters often use shields, which Cracked Armor would negate. It also negates things like Armor of Mist or "Stand Your Ground!", not to mention serving as a cover condition or a trigger condition for other skills. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Not only shields: It eliminates the bonus from caster insignias like Virtuoso's, Anchorite's, Shaman's, Minion Master's, etc —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.235.141.127 (talk • contribs) 00:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC).

Oh ok, this would help take down some of those Earth Eles in PvP.--§ Eloc § 21:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I'll be changing Weaken Armor, and Shadow Burden to apply cracked armor instead of -20 armor so they don't stack. ~Izzy @-'---- 00:29, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you please tell us about how Weaken Armor and Shadow Burden will be after you change them to apply cracked armor? Especially Weaken Armor, which has a terrible cast time/recharge. If it applies cracked armor, its not a hex spell anymore. If it is not 5/1/8 or something like that, compared to Shell Shock it's underpowered.--Hydralisk mk2 01:21, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I've added those two skills to the list. Please don't remove them as they are not yet changed, but there IS a notice on the top of the page, which says that "the page is subject to change". --  (CoRrRan / talk) 11:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

So does Cracked Armor affect that of skills too? Kinetic Armor for example gives +84 armor, so would Cracked Armor make it go down to +64? Also, same for Armor of Earth. At 15 Earth Magic, it gives +60, so would it remain the same or do skills still go down in AL which would make Armor of Earth go down to +40 Armor. And does "Watch Yourself!" also get the -20AL? Finally, what about Shields... it says minimum of 60 and the Shield offers 16 Armor so maybe it won't be affected? Pwrkaril 21:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It's pretty simple. Add all your armor buffs up. Then if you have Cracked Armor, subtract 20. But, cracked armor will not drag you below 60. So a guy with caster armor and a shield would have 60+16 armor for 76 armor. With cracked armor: 76-20 = 56 armor. But 56 armor is below 60 armor, so with cracked armor the target has 60 armor. If the target takes off his shield he still has 60 armor. If target also gets "Watch Yourself", he has 60+16+20-20=76 armor. --Drekmonger 22:44, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh, OK. I get it now. Lol, never knew how armor buffs really affected armor in the long run. Thank you so much Drekmonger. And now that I know, it is pretty simple lol. Again, thanks.Pwrkaril 01:04, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

But, will it affect the armor cap? Say, you have Watch Yourself, Stand Your Ground, and Cracked Armor on you. Would you get the +25 cap minus Cracked Armor leaving you with +5 net armor, or would you have +25 from WY, -20 from CA, then +24 from Stand Your Ground, giving a base +29, but only +25 because of armor cap? It's 4AM, and I always hated English class. So if this doesn't make sense, I'll try to explain it again. --Deathwing 08:11, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Deathwing, I just have a quick question for you. What exactly does the Armor cap entail? Armor of Earth gives well over +25 Armor Level, so what do you mean by armor cap? --Pwrkaril 05:49, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

The armor cap (just like all caps) stops you from stacking skills over a certain amount. (25 armor) Done25 12:52, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

All caps are net. So Deathwings hypothetical situation would still net +25 armor, +5 while moving. --Kale Ironfist 13:13, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

So does armor cap only affect that of skills? An example, a Warrior with 80AL and +20AL vs. physical damage and the warrior is obviously fighting off another warrior for total of 100AL. Then if that warrior uses Watch Yourself for +25 (armor cap), the warrior would be up to 125 total? Or is 115 AL max altogether? --Pwrkaril 18:54, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

(reset)It only effects the stacking of skills. Done25 18:56, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Done25, thanks. It does make total sense now but in back of mind, I am just wondering why Armor of Earth grants high AL if only +25 can be used; oh well, thanks for your help. --Pwrkaril 19:14, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Its becuase stacking caps only work on STACKING. And your welcome. Done25 19:24, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

You said stacking caps only work on stacking... I am a little confused by that. So does that mean if I use Armor of Earth, it does not have an armor cap but when I use Armor of Earth with Watch Yourself, it then has an armor cap of +25? So a E/W would have 85 AL because of armor cap but if the Elementist only had Armor of Earth, it could have more? Sorry if this is confusing; could not word it any better. --Pwrkaril 19:40, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

If Armor of Earth has a armor boost of 60 and Watch Yourself has a 20. You would have +60 armor. The cap prevents things from stacking beyond 25 but a single skill can still break it. Get it now? Done25 20:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

So if you had two skills each granting +12, they would grant you a total of +24, but when you use Armor of Earth (+60) with another skill, the cap kicks in only granting +60 total from the Armor of Earth right? --Pwrkaril 23:46, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

That's right. --Kale Ironfist 01:21, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

The armor cap is +25 when stacked which is what I do not get. If you stack "Watch Yourself!" with Armor of Earth, does it not lower the AL to +25 total? I can see Armor of Earth granting +60 AL but when you get WY, the cap says +25, so would you actually go from +60 AL to +25 AL meaning WY would actually weaken you? A warrior right next to you uses WY while you are an Elementist with Armor of Earth and just like that, your ally has weakened you from 60 to 25 (resulting in -35 AL loss). --Pwrkaril 03:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

*sighs* Alright listen up. Caps stop you from adding weak effects up. One strong one will ignore it. So don't use Dolyak sig and WY. got it? Done25 04:22, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, now I get it perfectly lol. Thank you. I am a little slow but you helped me enough :P. Thanks Done25. --Pwrkaril 04:33, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

If it helps people I will do it. Done25 18:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

(reset)It simply changes the condition (i.e. the state) of the armor.Nicky Silverstar 07:55, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that Crack Armour will devalue all +armour mods for casters. ie. +armour insignias and +armour staff upgrades will be less useful, because they would make the caster valnurable to Cracked Armour. I don't mind the idea of this new condition, but I don't like the hard cutoff at 60 armour. 210.84.1.112 13:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Why? Why did you do that to my warrior Izzy? you just killed PvP for him and for most other warriors for that matter. You also put 2 skills that need this new condition, but in order to use them we've to take a secondery profession that can actualy cause CA. You force warriors to take a secondery profession so we'll be able to use warrior's skills and that has never been done in GW before. I dont have anything else to say, I'm just shocked that you think that we need another anti-melee condition (and even whorse, anti-warrior). Like Weakness(now I don't deal any real damage AND need to invest 10 points instead of 9 points in streangth for my shield [it doesn't realy hurt the spell casters]) and Blind(I don't need to add anything here) weren't enough, while this is happening there's only one condition that's anti-caster(daze). Maybe instead of adding another (and by far the strongest) condition against melee classes you can add an universal condition or god forbid an anti-caster condition.

Bleh. After the sneak peak, I feel that Cracked Armor is 100% useless. The only skills which need it to work are Warrior skills. Neat looking skills, I have to admit, but there's no way to use them. There isn't room on a Warrior's skillbar for a skill that exists purely to make another skill function. Well, that's true for any character, really. I tried using Shell Shock a bit, but I did not notice anything, really. It's nothing compared to Deep Wound. I don't think it should be changed though, just give it to Warriors so they can use their new conditional skills. Maybe some Ele skills should do extra damage vs foes with Cracked Armor. I think it would be best to leave the actual effect alone because messing with armor reduction is always pretty dangerous. At least it's not overpowered. --TimeToGetIntense 13:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Non-physical condition

Only problem I have with this is that it's not an "physical ailment" like the other conditions are. I like how all the skills that are enhanced by Cracked Armor are from professions that can't inflict it. --Heelz 02:35, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Personally I like that - encourages more skill interactions, whether in terms of a secondary profession or another character. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 02:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflictx2) Does this apply to armor vs x? Say you're a ranger with Stalwart insignias (i.e. 70 armor, +30 vs elemental, +10 vs physical), and let's assume no other armor bonuses. Would you then have 60 armor +20 vs elemental, or 60 +30 elemental and +10 physical? - Tanetris 02:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

My guess would be yes, it does apply (just like it would apply with equipping a shield), but I've no source to be 100% sure about that. Perhaps Izzy can clarify. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 02:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Also investigation has to be done whether this condition counts BEFORE or AFTER Weaken Armor. If it is after, than there isn't much difference. If before, then I wonder whether weaken will reduce it to 40AL max. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 10:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

As per Izzy in the section above, skills that reduce armor by 20 will be tweaked to actually inflict the condition, so you can't hexstack a warrior down to 60 armor :) Dargon 14:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Heelz. Every other conditions is suffered by the characters physical body rather than equipment. I know it's superficial, but the only thing that really bothers me is the condition's name implies it effects the characters equipment rather than the characters body. Calling "Cracked Armor" something else so that it effects the body rather than the armor would make me happy. --Rururrur 13:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree with Heelz and Rururrur... I have no problem with the mechanic, just please call it something that is a physical ailment. 64.213.216.201 14:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC)Halinor 7/21/07

Its called a condition, if you read the others, they are called ailments or injuries or etc, a condition does not imply physical body, it implies just that, a condition, besides, it decreases armor, what else could decrease armor other then something that affects the armor...

'Old skills'

Will old skills be updated to cause this effect? Only 4 skills to cause a condition seem a bit mediocre. Perhaps change old skills to include this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.179.78.45 (talk • contribs) 18:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC).

Yeah it's not fair on the other campaigns who may not buy EotN to have a condition introduced that they cant utilize themselves... (Terra Xin 03:15, 22 July 2007 (UTC))

It might not be fair, but it's what will force PvPers to buy an otherwise PvE expansion.--Akaraxle 06:56, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Why doesn't Weaken Armor get changed to "This skill gives the opponent cracked armor", it is ASKING for it if you ask me... -Rakeman 08:18, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Then Weaken Armor would no longer be a hex. They'd be changing a skill completely and hexes are harder to remove than conditions are.--§ Eloc § 08:51, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I fail to see why this is a problem. Instead of being a decent hex it becomes a powerful condition (-20 armor>-20 physical). I am sure if there was a skill that said "While under the effect of this hex, your maximum health is lowered by 20%" and deep wound got introduced to the game, the skill would just be changed to cause deep wound... it only makes sense. Plus of course the face that only, what, 3 skills cause cracked armor currently (and a crappy necro one)?-Rakeman 19:21, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

But Weaken Armor is harder to remove than conditions. Some standard Hex Removals have like 12 second recharge while standard condition removals have around 3.--§ Eloc § 21:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Just wondering, how many people actually use weaken armor currently with it's 3 second cast time and 20 second recharge? It could definitely be buffed if it just caused cracked armor. Or at least make it "Next time foe takes damage, that foe suffers from cracked armor" as the armor has been made weaker... Maybe change "Weaken Armor" to "Whenever foe is attacked while under this hex, that foe suffers from Cracked Armor for 5 seconds" or something.-

It's the same reason why you'd bring Life Bond and Life Barrier. For all intents and purposes, Life Bond does the same job as Life Barrier with less energy and as a non-elite. You'd equip both so a player could benefit from both. Likewise, you could center a build around Cracked Armor and Weakened Armor. Since warriors stand to lose the most, it would serve as a 'softener' if you will to dealing large amounts of damage to otherwise very tough opponents. Whether you believe it or not, with the introduction of Cracked Armor, Weakened Armor just became a whole lot more valuable as a skill. 80.16.169.162 08:51, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Rakeman 01:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC) Reseting indent: Seriously? 4 skills? Why bother? There are more skills which take advantage of this condition than there are that cause it. And the most obvious causes of cracked armour to me atleast, hammers/axes/sword etc don't have any way of inflicting it. Warriors do almost no damage to other melee chars because of armour, especially with +20 vs physical, yet they have no way to cause this condition. I imagine/hope you will add this condition to other skills in the game, a mere 4 doesn't seem worthy of a condition. Dancing Gnome 04:14, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I feel obliged to point out that armor, in general, actually affects elementalists more than it does physical damage dealers - the majority of elementalist damage is mitigated by armor, while the damage bonuses from attack skills don't have to worry about that. In addition, the ranger bonus against elemental damage is even bigger than the warrior bonus against physical. So that argument is pretty much moot. It seems rather obvious that the selection of who could inflict or take advantage of Cracked Armor was designed to force utilization of more than just a single class line. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 04:41, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Armour affects them both equally, the difference is warrior skill damage is added on top of weapon damage, and weapon damage rarely drops below 0 thus the final damage output is still, at minimum, no less than the + dmg the skill does. If you compare warrior damage against a armour lvl 60 foe with an armour lvl 80 foe (which warriors and paragons are actually above due to shields and often insignias as well as the warrior inate +20 vs physical)the damage does drop, just like the elementalist, +dmg from skills also drops with more armour, which you will rarely see now thanks to the armour stacking nerf. The elementalist still in the end does more dps than a warrior, in most cases. The ranger bonus against elemental is equal to warrior against physical as the final armour total is both 100 as rangers only have 70 base armour. I agree the selection appears to be intended for casters to inflict but the physical dmg dealers take advantage of it but this to me limites the usefulness of this condition. As people have previously mentioned its effect isn't overly powerful it just allows people to do a little more dps to higher armoured targets, and as I said only 4 skills is hardly worth warranting a new condition, especially so late in the games development. Perhaps this new condition will create more imbalance than balance in the game, especially with it being limited to 4 professions and on only 4 skills. It might have no effect at all - its all just paper atm. I hope if this is implemented maybe armour stacking will return to something reasonable. Dancing Gnome 13:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect. Bonus damage from attack skills is not affected by armor, it is fixed per attack. A simple test: go to the barrels in the Isle of the Nameless with a sword and Pure Strike. Try hitting the 60 AL barrel, then hitting the 100 AL barrel. Due to the AL difference (40), the damage dealt to the 100 AL barrel should be halved, if none of the damage ignored armor, but it's not - at 12 swordsmanship (0 strength), the 60 AL barrel is hit for 42-49 damage, while the 100 AL target is hit for 33-37, much more than half. Notice that without the +24dmg from pure strike, that's 18-25 and 9-13 - which just so happens to be the proper ratio for armor-affected damage. Users of attack skills are not affected by armor nearly so much as the typical elementalist. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 21:02, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Its not yet clear if other professions will be able to cause cracked armor trough pve only skills but clearly if Weaken Armor, and Shadow Burden will be changed to cracked armor (see Izzy's note above) then rest of the professions could use a not all too conditional skills that cause it as well. Something simular to Dismember, with higher adrenaline cost or/and shorter duration of the conditon Biz 10:54, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Shadowy Burden is being changed to include Cracked Armor, I that mean it looses the ability to lower a foes armor below 60 (thus giving the skill a bit of a nerf). ‽-(eronth) I give up 00:00, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Why list Weaken Armor and Shadowy Burden? Both skills cause -20 to armor, without the 60 AL limitation of cracked armor. Shall they be switched to cause Cracked Armor or what? So far, the skills have not been updated to cause cracked armor. --Longasc 09:43, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It would make shadowy burden usless against casters on the other hand we can use other hexes with it, still id never use it again.--Diddy Bow 22:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Izzy said both of those skills will be changed and will inflict CA. Capcom 22:47, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

On the subject of old skills inflicting Cracked Armor, should Desperation/Drunken Blow cause it? It would probably upset the draw towards multiple professions, but I think it would be more thematically correct, plus it would only be a random chance to inflict it, without knowing if you even did, short of looking closely at your target and determining what conditions he has based on the animation surrounding them. Da Si 17:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Armor stacking issue

First you seriously nerf armor stacking in the game, now you further nerf the effectiveness of armor !?! What is the point of classes with more armor, and multiple skills that add armor, if you turn back around and limit it severely, then reduce it completely? If armor stacking were re-enabled, then I'd say this is a great idea. Cracked Armor counters armor stacking, and armor stacking counters cracked armor, great. But with armor stacking currently nerfed to oblivion, I do not see this as a good addition at all. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Linea (talk • contribs) 22:22, 21 July 2007 (UTC).

Calm down, it's only a condition. It can be removed just like any other condition removal and I don't think it's quite as powerful as Daze in my opinion.--§ Eloc § 22:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Not as powerful as Deep Wound even, although yet another condition you have to deal with. If people start stacking the two, it's going to be bad news for overextended warriors.--Akaraxle 06:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Teach them not to overextend ;)--§ Eloc § 21:53, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree to the poster. Armor Stacking is a mess. Many people do not even KNOW about the +25 limitation. And the sole reason seems to have been that Shouts cannot be removed. Watch Yourself and Stand Your Ground, partywide unremovable ~ +44 AL. All other forms of armor stacking are not as powerful as this example, as they are individual, cost a skill slot and whatever. This also hit Warriors and Elementalists the most in PvE and killed all Armor stacking builds thoroughly. --Longasc 09:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

If there is a +25 armor limitation, then why would Armor of Earth give +60?--§ Eloc § 10:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

The armor limitation is for multiple skills. It's either highest of one skill or +25 max bonus armor from skills. --Kale Ironfist 11:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I think Eloc proves a point, most people do not exactly know how armor stacking works nowadays at all. This is not so much his fault as the problem of the odd changes to the armor stacking mechanic, which are awful in my opinion. --Longasc 11:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

While I agree with all these comments I think you have to take a step back and look at the huge "feature creep" problem that ANet has largely coped with successfully, keeping the game fun (while not charging you a monthly fee to fix it). For example you create a great skill in campaign #1 and "balance" it by a appropriately long recharge. Everyone is happy. Then in campaign #2 you add a duplicate. Then in #3 you add a similar skill that stacks well. Then you add... and so on. Eventually you have a mindless button mashing build that is very effective but not very fun for the community as a whole. I think their original design conceived of a much narrower AL range than became commonplace by the time of the nerf. Like the Soul Reaping nerf, it is unfortunate that it took them so long to correct the imbalance, and in both cases the "fix" is somewhat rough. But clearly you can't do away with the cause, "feature creep", without doing away with the wonderful fact that features keep getting added. By moving on to a fresh start with GW2 while using their experience from GW1 they should be able to give us an even better game, with fewer major nerf "gotchas" in store. But if you compare ANet's GW evolution and problems to, for example, MtG (brilliant and influential card game), I think they've done an amazing job. Crystalion 20:47, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

A long comment about power creep, Crystalion. Yeah, every game seems to suffer from that sooner or later. But because MtG did worse (I agree to that) does not mean GW should not do better. But: The rules of MtG are clear to everyone, while the +25 armor stacking issue was only mentioned once in an update note. People are already asking for an "armor meter" and things like that. Nobody asked for that before. Add in Cracked Armor and Armor Buff stacking and you really have to think hard to get an idea what your effective armor level is. Word of mouth is pretty quick in GW, but everyone should have a chance to get the mechanics without his personal veteran GW mentor. --Longasc 09:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the Armor-o-meter. Or at least a little box thing that tells you how much you currently have. When you reach the armor cap, it could say max on it or something. Or just remove the armor cap please. --Deathwing 01:05, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

How would shadowey burden work if it says target has 20 less armor to YOUR skills, thats giving the skill a decent buff, the only diffrence is that before it could go below 60.. but i dont think haveing it apply CA is the same as the skill is now.. The armour stacking cap is great - since cracked armour will be a condition it won't be stackable to counter any armour that might have been stacked way above 25 were it not for the cap. -20 from cracked armour and +25 stacking cap sounds pretty reasonable - Yax

I don't even understand why armour stacking had to be nerfed, it seems like a lazy way to fix a problem, the finger is infected lets cut off the entire arm? The Earth Ele builds could easily be stopped via enchantment removal(Gaze of Contempt, Well of Profane), and were only really a problem in the random PvP arenas anyways. Warriors which boosted their armour via warriors skills were fine until nightfall came along and added the Paragon mess with the rediculousness which was chants. If the armour buffs of paragons were so powerful NERF THEM not the entire armour stacking function rendering a whole swag of warrior skills almost useless now as watch yourself performs their function better than the other skills can, even elite ones. Who in their right mind will bring Dolyak Signet now that it won't stack? Nerf the function of the chat - prevent them from being chained or something with a disabled if they are already affected by the same chant or something. Hopefully with the inclusion of this pointless and un-needed condition we can have armour stacking back and the real culprit - chain paragons, nerfed the way they should have been done to begin with . Dancing Gnome 21:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

If Cracked Armor, why not "Ding Weapon"

Condition. Ding target foes weapon. For X seconds all melee, ranged, & wand/staff attacks deal Y% of their damage back to the wielder.

The idea is that by giving your foes weapon a good whack you "knock it out of alignment" temporarily, impairing his/her ability to handle the weapon as effectively as usual.

Make it a No Attribute Core skill that everyone can wield, like rez sig.

Has a great use against those skills that "end when caster uses a skill" like "Berserker Stance", so that when your opponent is waiting for their energy to come back up and just standing around using weapon attacks, it can be used against them.

Probably wrong place to put this suggestion... sorry.Jkyarr 21:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Weakness says hi. Capcom 21:59, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Icon

I tried uploading an icon for it, but I continue to see the red ? I did Ctrl F5 for a forced refresh, am I missing something? ~Izzy @-'---- 00:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a known problem on the server side, it sometimes caches images too aggressively. Nothing to do but wait for it to show the correct icon now (it can take up to an hour). --Dirigible 00:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be showing up fine now. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:10, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Ahh ok thanks : ) ~Izzy @-'---- 18:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Monks join the party?

Since no Monk skills seem planned to inflict or affect Cracked Armor how about changing Smiting Prayers' Judge's Insight from:

"Enchantment Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage and have +20% armor penetration." to

"Enchantment Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage and cause Cracked Armor for 1...2...3 seconds."

or, if that is too good or too close to Sundering Weapon, perhaps more thematically appropriate:

"Enchantment Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage. If ally critically hits a foe with Cracked Armor, that foe is knocked down."

Which is a very useful (Judge's) "Insight" but does requires the foe to first be inflicted some other way by Cracked Armor and the ally to make a crit. Crystalion 17:48, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

critical with nock down would be most overkill, along with keen chop on a sin you could have a perma-nock down sin, not a good idea

No, I don't think they change skills completly on Guild Wars. I can only recall them completly changing a skill once. Besides, not all Professions can inflict all Conditions anyways. Example - Elementalists can't cause Bleeding...or can they?--§ Eloc § 02:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Might want to take a look at Otyugh's Cry. They totally changed how that worked. Or didn't work, depending on how you look at it. --Deathwing 06:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Skill Update - Stoning - Additional note; If the rock nearest to you on the ground is sharp, Stoning causes Bleeding for 9..13..16 seconds. I basically agree with Eloc, those changes are way too radical. However, that having been said, I don't see any reason to just add a new Smiting skill into the game that causes Cracked Armor, whether conditionally or not.24.186.207.198 22:07, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Woot, instead of using Stoning, they should make a new skill called "Sharp Rock" in which you pick up the rock and stab em with it. But ya, if you think of it, Monks don't do Cracked Armor as in the sense of Physical Damage. They use Holy Magic which kinda deals something like direct damage because Balthazar can do that thing while Elementalists shoot projectiles I suppose.--§ Eloc § 22:35, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Well you all have me chuckling there at the absurdity of my suggestion. And I think the criticism about Assassin's perpetually crit'ing is true. However the real point of the suggestion, with the question mark at the end of "Monks join the party?" is that existing Necro Weaken Armor and Assassin Shadowy burden skills got their debuff converted into a thematically similar yet different mechanic, so when there is a Smiting monk debuff via buff (armor penetration 20% is pretty close to -20 AL) might not one at least think about updating that also? Of course, for all I know, Monk's have a PvE only skill in the works relating to Cracked Armor. Oh well, just a thought. ("Sharp Rock"--hilarious... maybe that could be a new Junundu Feast skill;) Crystalion 06:29, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

20% armor penetration is most definitely not equivalent to Cracked Armor. CA is a removable condition and can't lower armor below 60, while the armor penetration will work regardless. Capcom 06:36, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreeing with the above, -20 armor and 20% AP is not the same thing- not only because one is a condition and the other is a set ammount, but 20% AP will only occasionally give a -20 AL to the struck target. (100 armor is required, which isn't all too uncommon, but definately not everywhere) 20% AP could subtract anywhere from 12 AL to 25 AL, depending on the target. That is far from Cracked Armor's -20. But in all honesty, i wouldnt mind seeing a few more (lot more) old skills be converted to using or causing this condition; Weaken Armor is making the switch, why not other skills?

Cracked Armor for Hammer

I don't get why there isn't a hammer skill for this. It would operate like Belly Smash and give Hammer warriors a much needed boost in popularity.

Unless I'm mistaken, there are still more skills that haven't been released for us to preview. 19:51, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

You are mistaken. There is only PvE skills that haven't been shown. --Deathwing 21:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

First of all, hammer warriors don't need a boost in popularity, really. Secondly, the reason is the same reason that no other warriors have a skill that inflicts CA, no other physical damage dealers at all have a skill that inflicts CA. It encourages combos of casters and physical damage dealers to draw the full potential out of skills. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 21:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It would still make more sense for something as heavy as a hammer slamming into a chestplate to crack it. Besides, hammer warriors DO need a boost in popularity, especially in PvE. Counciler 01:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

One Assasin skill Shadowy Burden will be changed to cause cracked armor =P, direct hit with a hammer would make poor lads insides broken more then armour itself and thats whole point of having blunt force trauma, How ever a Axes more then hammers or swords would be able to damage armour due to a cutting point a concentrated mass. Biz 07:23, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

What I am wondering is that, other than the warrior's armor, all armor is made of paper (monk) or cloth (everyone else). How can you crack cloth? (see below) Done25 19:30, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, cracked armor do not reduce armor under 60. So it would actually affect insignias and such for Cloth armors. MithranArkanere 01:13, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Sin is cloth and affected by CA. ‽-(eronth) I give up 01:38, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

No. Assassin, Dervish and Ranger are 'Leather' armor. Although you see the armor looking like one thing, they are 60, 70, and 80. That's the point. So a Necromancer armor that look like metal is still 'cloth', 60 armor. (Sign, sign, sign Look where we've been And where we are tonight :S ) MithranArkanere 22:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

-.-... Crack leather pls. ‽-(eronth) I give up 23:03, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Leather can be actually cracked. Google for images about it. MithranArkanere 02:20, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Naming

Sadly, I feel some cloth armor and most caster armor cannot essentially be "cracked". Maybe it should be called weakened/damaged armor. Though then again, should we care? Sever Artery should, well, sever a major artery, resulting in fatal or semi-fatal bloodloss. File:Esig2.jpg Eldin 20:11, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

No reason to be sad. You are correct, and it's why this condition can't reduce one's armor below 60. Oh yeah, that, and balance issues :)

Say your a monk with a shield, then its not your cloth robe that has been cracked but shield your holding. =) Biz 07:25, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Assassin with no sheild wearing canthan armor? ‽-(eronth) I give up 07:31, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, don't really agree with your argument thing, but it is a really crap name IMO. --Deathwing 08:05, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Leather can have 'cracks' in it, but we usually call it rips, shreds or something like that...Nicky Silverstar 09:42, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Leather armor is actually often made out of boiled leather, which is incredibly rigid and thus susceptible to cracking. --58.28.153.237 11:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Hey hey!! Its the smarty pants police and you just got a ticket!! But seriosly, even i couldnt think that one through...--Raph 02:15, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Penetrating/ Sundering Attack

Are these skills going to cause Cracked Armor also, because if they were changed to have a larger recharge they would give the same effect, but as a condition. Would also go well with Body Shot/ Piercing Trap. Also Penetrating Chop and its copy could be good options.--Renegade 10:27, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah! Biz 11:11, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Except that breaks the rule of having very few skills that apply Cracked Armor, and most of them being conditional. --Deathwing 10:25, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

If you are going to introduce a condition into the game, so late into the game, why make it so limited? Something as big as a condition should be more easily accessed than what cracked armour is beginning to look like. This skill is so rare in skill choiced which inflict it, classes which can inflict it, and the way in which it is inflicted is so cumbersome, its destined to be a bad addition to the game. It will only be used by gimmicky builds or builds which are so specific (as it requires such great conditions to be inflicted) that you will either not see it or see it in the same builds over and over. Dancing Gnome 21:39, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Restore Condition, Purge Conditions

The skills Restore Condition and Purge Conditions should be changed so they handle all conditions, including Cracked Armor. -- Lexx 08:33, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Nah, those skills shouldn't even list the conditions. --Heelz 09:01, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Condition reduction runes

Will this cause a reworking/modification of the current set of condition reduction Runes ? Formerly, we had 8 conditions, paired over 4 reduction runes; now we have 9 conditions. Will the runes be reworked into 3 ones each reducing 3 conditions, is there a mystery 10th condition that will be reduced onto a new 5th reduction rune together with Cracked Armor, or will it alone be on a 5th rune ? Clan Yumemiru 09:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Personally I don't think there should be a rune to reduce time on CA. It's not a physical ailment like the others are. Capcom 21:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Waterloo --Deathwing 22:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

technically speaking, neither is weakness dazed or burning...

Actually we have 10 Conditions with this. Blind, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Poison, Disease, Burning, Weakness, Deep Wound, Cracked Armor. They just need to make a new Rune that reduces Burning and Cracked Armor duration by 20% to have a full set of reduction runes. Gothica 01:59, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

ooo dont forget weapon mods the extend and reduce ALL conditions. Of course not on the same mod silly xD --Lou-Saydus 03:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Whats 20% of 4 seconds? I only know of 2, maybe 3 skills that burn longer than that, and one is self inflicted.--BahamutKaiser 02:34, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Drunken Blow

Desperation and Drunken Blow, would these be able to cause it too? Probably not, but yeah. 84.87.168.39 13:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

I wish they would. Done25 17:33, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

More options to inflict Cracked Armor

At this moment, Cracked Armor is inflicted by barely any skills (6). My suggestion is to change the following skills to inflict Cracked Armor:

- Ward Of Weakness [Cracked Armor for 1...7...8 seconds > Weakness for 5...17...20 seconds]

- Piercing Trap [15e > 10e, Cracked Armor for 3...13...15 seconds > Conditional Effect]

- Aura Slicer [8r > 10r, Cracked Armor for 1...7...8 seconds > Conditional Effect]

- Primal Rage [10e > 5e, 10r > 15r, If you inflict a Critical Hit, target also suffers from Cracked Armor for 1...7...8 seconds > 20% Armor Penetration]

- Penetrating Blow [7a > 5a, Cracked Armor for 5...17...20 seconds > 20% Armor Penetration]

- Penetrating Chop [7a > 5a, Cracked Armor for 5...17...20 seconds > 20% Armor Penetration]

- Penetrating Attack [8r > 3r, Cracked Armor for 3...13...15 seconds > 20% Armor Penetration]

- Sundering Attack [8r > 3r, Cracked Armor for 3...13...15 seconds > 20% Armor Penetration]

Cracked Armor is not like Dazed - it should be fairly common, or at least not rare. Penetrating Attacks were always very bad because +dmg is just better. With Cracked Armor, these can actually become good Skills. Discuss! --83.86.19.209 23:28, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Well they added 100 skills, of which 6% inflict Cracked Armor... this is why it's rare, not b/c its overpowered. ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 23:59, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

What does that have to do with it? I never said it was overpowered, actually, I think it's underpowered because there are barely any skills which inflict Cracked Armor. --83.86.19.209 11:13, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, most of the skills which require Cracked Armor for extra damage or whatever are in classes which can't inflict it which makes them extremely limited. Also, IMO the cap should be 50 armor rather than 60 because at the moment it's not particularly useful compared to Deep Wound. ~ Hyperion 16:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

have you guys even looked at sundering weapon??? 1 second recast, next attack has both sundering and causes CA.. before you say it seems underpowered, look at that skill.. that skill is CRAZY.. yea, its true that the wariors and rangers and others who need CA for certain skills cant directly cause it, but with that skill, it makes it well worth it, thats crazy.. if you really want your war to b able to do it by himself, jus give him the skill, granted itll only last aboiut3 or 4 seconds, but how long does it take to hit? honestly.. i think CA will do just fine if you pay attention to certain skills..

Armor Penetration and Armor breaking are different things, if they introduced attacks with Cracked armor they should be different ones, not totally rework penetrating attacks with it and likewise increase costs and recharge times to make a totally different skill with a better effect.--BahamutKaiser 02:38, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be cool if cracked armor was inflicted when the person gets more than a certain number of hits per minute - Byakko 04:33, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Rename to Sundered Armor?

Ya, that name just hit me...I don't know if anyone has thought of it before, but it seems to work with any type of armor. From Dictionary.com- Sunder: "To break or wrench apart." I think that name would do nicely. What do you all think? Mattman243 21:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Sounds really neat. --Seth Crimsonflare 13:18, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm glad someone finally posted :) Mattman243 00:02, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I really hope this cracked armor stuff is just for dev. because imo this is a horrible name for this condition. Just sounds too.. "lego-ish". I think Weakened Armor or Softened Armor would be better choices. Anyone else have suggestions? And who else things having a condition that doesn't effect your character's body, but rather their equipment is weird? Also, I think sundered is great too, --Lou-Saydus 03:05, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Sundered Armor is too long of a name. Shido 03:21, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, going by your logic, anything "armor" will be too long. All prior suggestions are as long or longer names...Mattman243 02:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I kinda like the Sundered Armor sound. But I don't think that this condition will become very popular, even with a fancy name change. Disgruntled Celery talk 02:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

cmon now, im gettin anoyed with everyoen saying that conditions have to effect the body, they dont.. a condition can apply to anything, the defintion of a condition is not physical body, read the actual conditions, they say injury, ailment, THOSE define them as physical effects.. not the word condition.. a condition is just as it sounds, a condition, a situation with respect to circumstances... and cracked armor works nicely, i mean it makes sense that a crack in the armor reduces your overall armor rating because logicly you wont hit it every time if there were a crack in ones armor, but if you did hit it, it wouldnt matter what armor you have, it will do alot more damage, and if you look at the characters who wear cloth as 60 armor then you can look at 60 armor foes as people without armor, so a hit that does not hit armor would logicly follow into that range of hitting something without armor, or 60 armor.. cracked armor makes perfect sense.. i dont kno what all you are complaining about..

I personally think this could use a rename as well. Sundered Armor works, but it isn't very elegant. However, I think that the word "armor" ought to be replaced with "defenses" or a similar word; Cracked Armor implies that the armor itself is cracked or damaged, and, while it makes sense in the mechanical meaning of armor and armor points, it doesn't consistently affect caster armor, but rather, say, the X of Defense weapon they're wielding, it doesn't make perfect sense in a roleplaying way. Kite 01:38, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

id normaly agree with you, but you see, it doesnt affect caster armor.. caster armor is 60 armor, which is not effected, which makes it a perfect name.. if foe has 60 armor, CA does nothing..

And if they're wielding a Defensive, Of Defense, Of Warding, or Of Shelter weapon? They would be affected by Cracked Armor, despite the fact that their actual armor is unaffected. Kite 23:56, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Shell Shock

Why was Cracked Armor skill given to the one line of elementalists skills that never had any problems dealing with high-armor targrets? Nearly all Air Magic skills have 25% armor penetration so geting trough the armor wasn't a big issue, then you got 3 skills that cause blindness and 1 skill that causes weakness and on top of that you highly spamable Lightning Javelin that shuts down just about any offensive from melee attackers.--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:83.131.156.199 .

I would assume it's because Cracked Armor has been shown to be a team-oriented condition, and Shell Shock allows other teammates to benefit from Air Magic's armor reduction capabilities. Kite 23:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

a shield is still armor.. it would b affected then, you can crack a shield, and you can call it armor, i still dont see the problem--The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.50.252.230 .

Does not appear to work, at least not with other air spells as the damage source against the 100 armor target in GToB. --72.211.155.160 19:10, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

As far as I can tell Cracked Armor currently does not work at all on anything. Both spells and physical attacks were unaffected.--Mysterial 14:12, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Weaken Armor--Is it a hex Spell Anymore?

So is weaken armor a hex spell anymore, or is it just a spell to create a cracked armor on foe? Because if it is changed away from a hex spell, that completely changes its usage. Anyone else know anything about this? And are there other skills they are planning on changing that would reflect this kind of difference in the skill? 146.151.51.206 16:28, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

According to the description, it is a spell that gives the foe the condition cracked armor, just like rotting flesh does for disease.

Does this Condition work at all?

For at least two skills, Cracked Armor has no effect at reducing the armor level of your foe. Go to Nameless Isle with Malicious Strike or Wild Strike... I waited for Shrinking Armor to form the Condition on the 80 AL barrel but the damage continued to be reduced as if CA was being ignored. I hear the same is true for Shell Shock. Does the Condition work at all? --arredondo 20:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The latest description of the condition is that it is bugged. I tested it on the barrels as well as on a random warrior i picked up and took back to my GH for a scrim. I tried it with spells as well as with my Jora using no skills just hitting. --Trinity Fire Angel

They should just remove the condtion from the game and change the skills which use it to somethign useful. As it is it's too limited to be useful for the majority of the communitiy and it occupies 10 of the few new skills we were given in GWEN, which could hav been fun new skills for fun new builds isntead of gimmicky little "forced synergy" skills to fix what appears to be a PvP gripe with higher armour. Classes which might like to use it can't, and the ones that can inflict it do it in such round about ways it's useless. The only way I would consider bringing any of these CA skills in pve is Shell Shock or Sundering Weapon but my rit has better things to do and I'm not running air just for a condition. Either remove the condition and give us back the 10 skills for somethin fun we can do or open cracked armour up to more proffesions and skills like above comments. Dancing Gnome 11:29, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Who is removing all the Bug tags for this?

Has Cracked Armor been fixed? The Condition formed but it never reduced armor for at least two skills at GW:EN's launch (Shell Shock and Shrinking Armor). Bug tags were put here as well as at the links for those skills to alert people about it, but they are now gone. So has CA received a stealth fix or was removing the bug tags a mistake (which I will replace)? I'll test later today, but if someone has answers now I'd appreciate it. --arredondo 17:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

It's fixed. --Heelz 17:34, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Ah, thank you. I checked and someone said it was fixed as of 9/6. I never saw it announced in a patch. Stealth updates make it hard to stay on top of things. --arredondo 17:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Just checked it. "Shell shock" has no effect on Tundoss the Destroyer. 84.56.233.208 17:43, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Notes

"All skills that inflict Cracked Armor are caster class, except for the assasin, while all skills that benefit from Cracked Armor are melee class, except for the assasin." If this is usefull it should at least be changed. Assassin is spelt wrong both times, assassin is a melee class, ranger and paragon are not (probably means that all non-caster (fighter?) classes have a skill that benefits from it except for the assassin), if this is usefull than mentioning that there are PvE only common skills of both these kinds might be usefull too. I will remove the sentence from the article as it is not clear enough or just wrong. Etienne 00:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

paragons and rangers are melee classes because they hit stuff, casters cast magic on stuff! Captain Obvious 22:11, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Wrong, wrong. Melee attack is actually hitting someone with a weapon you are holding in your hand. Spears/bows are ranged. And if that was sarcasm, yes, I missed it.--Ryudo 01:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Melee is done with any held weapon, Ranged is done with any projectile weapon, both fall into physical damage, all weaponized classes fall under physical attack abilities, melee and ranged, and some share spell damage as well. This can actually be very confusing to alot of people, it isn't taught naturally because the general definitions for melee are more associated with brawls, free for all fighting, with mild association with hand-to-hand combat. But in games, particularly fighting games, when someone says melee attack, it means a held weapon, with no projectile or projectile action.

physical damage not including the ability to change it to elemental damage that is.......--BahamutKaiser 02:49, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I reckon you check wikipedia for a second. Melee is CLOSE COMBAT. Thus shooting with a bow from 1 meter is melee, shooting from 300 isn't.

But, as far as Guild Wars is concerned, attacking with a bow from 1 meter is not melee. I do understand your choice of words and usage, but the real-life definition just doesn't apply here. --Mystisteel 02:18, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, like how do u expect somebody to live for very long after you cut open their arteries. Real life means almost nothing in GW. --- Ressmonkey (talk) 01:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I think most folks could live for long enough to get help if an artery was breached. Long-term immolation or decapitation? Nah, I don't think so... :) --Mystisteel 23:40, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Revision

imo Anet need to introduce more ways to apply cracked armor as there serveral skills which require its use to get a bonus. the only 2 skills which i see are any use are Shell Shock and Sundering weapon and even they arent good when used with the skills that require cracked armor as a bonus 24.79.131.199 05:13, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Skill Description

although the description says minimum of 60 armor, this is wrong. my warrior (level 7) has 50 AL, so this condition shouldnt affect it. However, damage from Shatter Gargoyle's lightning Orb is 11 with cracked armor and only 6 without it. not that this is a big issue but i think its worth mentioning since its not really a minimum of 60 but a minimum of the standard AL of your level. --Twiggie 15:59, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

I hope that is right, can we get anyone else to confirm? I am raising a new character, and it would be nice if Cracked Armor was useful for the first half of the campaign. - 144.226.230.37 15:24, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Cracked Armor & Low Levels

Umm, has anyone ever tested how and if this skill works in low level PVE when almost no one has even 60 armor, player or monster? Is the minimum always 60, or is the minimum 45 if you're wearing 200-gold-per-piece armor of any kind? {{unsigned2| 06:11, 4 June 2008 |Star Weaver]]

always 60. Plague Devourers in Old Ascalon still use Weaken Armor for example although it does most often in normal mode have no effect since the functionality change. —ZerphaThe Improver 12:28, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey, thanks. Also, wow, I forgot to sign that question a year ago. Interesting, though, since it isn't tied to caster armor minimums per level, cracked armor is effective against just about everything in HM and a lot of hard stuff in EOTN etc, since the common 24s and 28s have 72 and 84 caster armor. :) --Star Weaver 19:41, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

SHATTERED ARMOR

Then why don't they make a "Shattered Armor" condition that gives you -100 armor and deal %90 less damage, all while having -15 health degen and %75 chance to miss? Oh, and the condition should last for 150 seconds. --68.207.156.253 05:27, 26 October 2008 (UTC)Kaysan Smithee

And what about it also gives you wings, tits and sets you on fire? b.r // talk 03:12, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Shadowy Burden

Are they ever gonna change it to inflict cracked armor? Currently the only professions that don't deal with cracked armor are monk (of course, armor has no effect on any monk skills) and assassins. <>Sparky, the Tainted 02:28, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't think so, since there's no "Cracked Armor (but only when player X hits me)" condition. Unless they want to buff that skill or something. --Star Weaver 19:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

All Armor, or Just vs. Physical Attacks?

It occurs to me: the condition description does not specify whether or not Cracked Armor applies only to physical attacks, and though Guild Wars is normally very good about specifying such things, it's possible that they missed one. Hence my question: does Cracked Armor cause you to take increased damage from all attacks, including spells, or just physical attacks?

It specifies all that it needs to, does it say against physical attacks, no. Therefore, it's everything. L33TSkillz 19:37, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Wars and Cracked armor. Why they dont mix.

I dont understand why a warrior shouldn't have the ability for cracked armor. It makes shitloads more sense to me than a necro doing doing it and ele's only make a tiny bit more sense. A war walks up to you, bashes your face in, Cleaves your skull in, or parries a move with his sword and retaliates, and cracks your armor. Whats wrong with this? --Briar 03:53, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps most classes don't have armor technically so there is nothing to crack? Some "armor" looks like it has gives no protection at all (know it's a stretch but I can't think of any other reasons) Previously Unsigned 03:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

I could think of 2 reasons:

• • Balance: a Warrior immediately and greatly profits from CA, and profits all the time, because his auto attack suddenly becomes a lot stronger for the duration of CA; every W would want to inflict CA. Eles also inflict CA and profit directly, but I guess they need the buff in PVP for dealing damage; I'm not an expert for current meta though. A Nec, finally, has only few strong skills directly benefitting from CA, therefore requiring and forcing...
  • Teamplay: Basically a direct consequence from the balance issue. You want CA as a physical attacker? Get a caster teammate to inflict it for you. Roland of Gilead talk 01:31, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

dervs only melee with cracked armor

can someone explain to me why dervs are only melee profession that can inflict cracked armor? before to get useful cracked armor, you had to get it from a teammate, which promoted teamwork. Now its like dervs are one man team, they put the I in Tieam, where it doesnt belong. --81.90.22.60 11:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

From the Developer Update Notes: "Giving Cracked Armor to Dervishes allows them to be more effective in high-level PvE, while simultaneously making them unique as a melee class. By moving the skill to Mysticism, the Dervish gains a unique advantage when using a scythe. While the Dervish has two other ways to inflict Cracked Armor, these spells are prohibitively expensive without Mysticism and are ineffective without another skill to remove them." Simultaneously, they limited Dervishes from easily inflicting Deep Wound by rescaling Body Blow. udas 12:25, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Skills that mimic the cracked armor effect

Of the 7 skills that decrease armor, 4 of them work in effect the same as Cracked Armor: Aggressive Refrain, Elemental/Physical Resistance and Soldier's Fury. Shadowy Burden, while currently listed as a skill that mimics the cracked armor effect, actually works in effect like Barbed Arrows and Healing Signet.

I can see that the person who added the skills to the list of skills that mimic cracked armor just added skills that decrease your armor by 20, but I just wanted to point out that that description is not entirely correct. More accurate would be: Skills that also decrease armor by 20. Completely accurate would be: Skills that also decrease your armor by 20, but not necessarily in the same way as Cracked Armor.

What I'm getting at is that either Shadowy Burden should be removed and Elemental and Physical Resistance should be added, or the heading should be changed. udas 00:30, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Be bold. I would go for, skills that also reduce armor by a fixed amount (in CA's case, the amount is both fixed and capped; in most other cases, it's simply fixed). Another solution would be to point people to Armor rating#Skills that affect armor rating, since there are all sorts of skills that might be of interest. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 00:49, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Diminishing returns ?

Due to diminishing returns of higher armor in terms of raw damage reduction, the maximum raw damage increase from this condition alone is on a character with exactly 80 armor. For example, reducing armor from 100 to 80 will cause an increase of about 20.7% of the base damage of a skill or attack, while reducing armor from 80 to 60 will cause an increase of about 29.3% of the base damage. (Note that in both cases this is still a 41% damage increase in terms of actual damage received.) (Originally posted on article at ~01:56, 20 July 2011 by User:Amazing Goat.)

The same percentage reduction of an already smaller number is a smaller overall reduction, so, yes, there are diminishing returns for armor. If not for rounding to integers, there could never be a high enough armor rating to reduce damage to zero. -- Amazing Goat 02:06, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

If the point is that actual damage amounts sustained by targets with lower initial armor will be bigger than those who have higher initial armor, I think that is getting lost in the details. I recommend that folks fiddle around with the language here on the talk page; once we come up with a short statement (plus perhaps a clear example), then we can have add a solid note to the article without reverting back/forth. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:18, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

It's not just a matter of lower armor or higher armor, however, as it will also not (excluding the "bug") reduce armor below 60. This condition is a unique game mechanic in regards to it having its maximum effect on someone with exactly 80 armor, no more and no less. I tried a short version and it immediately caused confusion. -- Amazing Goat 02:25, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Which is why I recommend discussing it here. You have an important point that I think is lost in the current (and previous) phrasing. I think the second half of one of your sentences above is a good start: targets with AR of 80 will suffer the greatest amount of increased damage due to the condition. (Everyone receives the full effect; it's the actual damage amounts that vary.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:38, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

That is essentially what I said in the first place, before someone said it was wrong because -20 armor is always a 41% increase, which is why I added the example. Some mathematical concepts that some people take for granted might need to be spelled out for others. Sometimes a specific example is the best illustration of the concept. I don't think many people even really have a concept of how AR works in this game, other than bigger is better. I'm not sure if there is a short way to describe this that isn't going to leave most people either saying, "Huh?" or, "Wrong!" -- Amazing Goat 03:10, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Erm, I think you succeeded in finding a concise phrasing, above: having its maximum effect on someone with exactly 80 armor. I rephrased that to targets with AR of 80 will suffer the greatest amount of increased damage due to the condition (although perhaps you can improve upon that). Add an example (e.g. 100 damage → 141 at AR 80, +41... but only +x at AR Y, since 141% of Z ...) and you're done.

Also: the talk page is a perfectly fine place to explain why a note is (or is not correct); not every detail has to be covered in the article. (And, as an aside, I fear that you are right, that people don't have a good understanding of how AR works.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:21, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind my deleted comment. I realize it was directed at me now. I was just being stupid, I guess. -- Amazing Goat 03:57, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Honestly, the current wording is just too wordy for something that is as simple as saying: "Since cracked armor gives a percentage-based increase in damage, the target that will receive the highest increased damage would be a target with 80 AR (lowest armor that receives the full effect)." The 60 AR note is spelled out at damage calculation, as is the effect of reduced armor. --JonTheMon 04:35, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll try it and see if nobody else gripes about it. -- Amazing Goat 05:23, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

I just removed the first version of the note because it only noted that 80AL targets would have the highest increase in damage. Of course, if you do 100 armor respecting damage to an 80 armor target or do 100 armor respecting damage to a 200 armor target, both will increase the damage to 141 with Cracked Armor, resulting in the same increase in damage. I get that what you meant was that if you do 100 damage against an 80 armor target, that same damage translates to 13 damage against a 200 armor target, and Cracked Armor will increase the first by 41 damage while only increasing the second by 5. You might as well say: the more damage you do, the more you will benefit from Cracked Armor (to a minimum of 80 armor). udas 10:35, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Should this be changed?

Ever since the big Elementalist change which changed Thunderclap to a good harassment skill (interrupt + weakness + cracked armor), I've been thinking, this condition really needs to be looked at. What if it were changed to the following:

Cracked Armor: Renamed to Shaken Nerves.

Shaken Nerves - Condition. While affected by Shaken Nerves, incoming damage is increased by 20% and healing effects are reduced by 10%.

Now, this would do a few things. One would be that it it would stack well with Deep Wound. Two would be that since as it currently stands, anything which gives an armor bonus basically bypasses this effect completely, like a shield, so it would negate that advantage. Third would be that it would punch through armor boosting spells, and especially be a counter to that ever annoying Stone Sheath. And fourthly it would actually make this useful against very highly armored targets (bosses, hard mode foes, etc).

It is powerful yes, but considering it is a condition and therefore removable and can have its duration shortened and even have its effects reflected back to the enemy, it would bring it back into line with the other conditions. The only other thing I can see is that Weaken Armor will have to have its energy cost and regeneration time increased to compensate for the increased power, and of course the skill names changed like Weaken Armor can be changed to Unnerve, Shrinking Armor can be changed to Diminishing Nerves, and so on. Furry psyfox 00:14, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

This talk page for discussion on Cracked Armor itself. You want to go to Feedback:Game suggestions--Relyk 01:29, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

I know, but I thought I'd see what other people thought first before I did that. Furry psyfox 17:08, 16 April 2012 (UTC)