Talk:Animal companion/Archive2011-2013

11+ unevolved pet research

I'm writing down some notes of what I'm going to do to test if it's possible to level a pet from scratch to 20 unevolved. Will update when I remember. According to the Evolution Chart, absolutely NO dmg must be given/taken.

- caught from menagerie. lv5 red lurker (Citizn Snips), no dmg given or taken to pet

- leveling at Ice Cliff Chasms, hard mode. Set pet to passive and kept at a distance, using bow. (No dmg recieved to myself or pet. (unrelated: working on survivor also)

- pet is now lv11, pet name reset and is not aggressive/playful

- pet turned to Playful at lv13, possibly because Never Rampage Alone was used

--Universe 14:57, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

New pet controls

Wouldn't it be epic to give pet also the "flag-control"? You can actually make your pets tank groups before going in yourself then. I think this would be epic though? Anyone else who thinks about this? I find it a pretty good idea to add this to the game? Eiion X 15:06, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

If you want your suggestion to be considered by Anet, you should use the Feedback:Getting started section, which is designed so that Anet can use ideas from players without any legal issues. G R E E N E R 17:09, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Now would be an excellent time: ANet is adjusting the number of heroes that can join the party, which will involve revisiting the flag interface. If ANet ever has the resources to add a flag for a pet in GW1, it's going to be now.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:44, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Looks like we're not getting it then...--Random Weird Guy 09:05, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Bosses "owning" pets

No one can "own" a pet, a pet is a companion, not an inanimate object, they have feelings too. This wording needs to change now. Animals rights cannot be infringed upon. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.248.210.31 (talk).

please sign your comment by typing four tildes (~~~~). also feel free to be bold and make the change your self.- Zesbeer 04:15, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Repeat after me: "Rights do not exist without responsibilities." Now think carefully: what responsibilities do animals have? None? Ah, OK, then they don't have rights either. Note that I'm not saying that that gives us a right to mistreat animals, but equally, Guild Wars pets aren't animals... When my necro starts throwing blobs of whatever it is that comes out of an Asuran wand, La Terreur (L20 Hearty White Moa) just barges in and starts trying to beak whatever it is to death, regardless of the fact that the monster is perfectly willing to return the favour. Real animals don't do that stuff. (So, yes, Guild Wars pets have a responsibility: dive unhesitatingly into combat with whatever I'm fighting. The right gained in returned is the right to travel with me. I'm not prepared to spend a skill slot letting it do that if it isn't prepared to fight.) You're as bad as the person who complained to Arenanet about the corsair prisoner, so now he has been replaced by a Sunspear who volunteers to dress up as a corsair and be killed repeatedly. Personally, I find that more creepy than doing it to a captive pirate. Cynique 10:28, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

That's a real fancy way to say "PETA doesn't have a base of operations in Tyria". -Faer 13:47, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

This is true, but the point made in the first part of my comment has applicability far beyond the confines of a game world. When we give children rights, it is because (a) we are parents teaching them the lesson about rights and responsibilities ("you can stay up later now, but you must help me wash the dishes" and the like), or (b) we are the state trying to protect them from the lack of those rights, and the quid pro quo responsibility is collected later, bread-on-the-waters style ("we will give you the right to a safe home life now, and in return you must give your children a safe home life later"). We cannot collect an acted-on responsibility from animals (with certain exceptions, like sheepdogs and guide dogs ("seeing eye dogs" in the US, I believe), but even there it can be recast as being our rights and responsibilities), so they don't have rights as such. We assign to ourselves and each other a duty to take care of them, and in return we assign ourselves and each other a right to make use of them, whether for meat, hide, eggs, work, companionship, or 1001 other things. Note in passing here: 'responsibility' and 'duty' aren't the same, I know, but for the purposes of this argument, they are close enough to be equivalent. Cynique 15:09, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Faer, no not in Tyria, but there is one in the Battle Isles. --'Mai Yi' talk 16:26, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

Give me a break. You animal 'rights' nutters pop up every place these days. Animals can have owners. You don't like it, fine, go live inside your head. I live in the real world, where not only animals are owned, but they are eaten. Just ate one myself. Yum. --La Visiteuse 21:19, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

In GW, animals are not 'tamed', they are 'charmed'. They feelings get erased, and they become mindless tools of destruction! Even people can have owners. And voluntarily. Ask in your local S&M shop for more info :D . MithTalk 15:43, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

I guess that's why they're called "Animal Charmers" then. Oh wait, they aren't. Rikk Panda 06:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

They are tamers, so what? They don't get the animals for battle. They get them for transport to some Menagerie. More than taming them, they keep them 'tame' so they are easier to transport. Creatures that bring animals into battle charm them. MithTalk 12:39, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I don't think that's what "Charmed" means. If your a charming person that would suggest that you have a "way" with people or people find your manner/personality alluring (im not sure if thats the right word). If you were a "charming" person and put your mind to it, you would probably be able to subtly (and maybe massively) manipulate people. Also, if you were to "charm" someone in RL, the final outcome would probably be the person having an elevated opinion of you, in some way or another.

By this reasoning, I take "Charming" a pets to mean that you make a "connection" with them on some level. I also think that it nothing whatsoever to do with Dominating them or their "feelings get erased, and they become mindless tools of destruction". For example, I have personaly seen people walk up to totally wild horses and within half an hour (an hour tops) the hours would do anything for them. They did not dominate the horses in any way nor did they change them in any way other than how they saw people maybe. Titan Crow 18:49, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Traditionally, in fantasy fiction and human lore (outside of the game), a charm is an enchantment: luck charm, love charm, etc. It's an artificial method of changing the environment, another being's feelings or worldview, etc. So, in the game, it could mean that the Ranger becomes an e.g. Rainbow Phoenix whisperer, but it could also mean that the character magicks the pet (and therefore controls a mindless automaton)...or anything in between. We don't really have an independent way of testing this in the game. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:31, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Let's get back to the point. Someone is arguing about a computer program's "rights". They are pixels. They possess no corporeal body, no sentience. They cannot feel. They do not have feelings. They do not even possess free will. They act based on programmed protocol. They are animals only by representation, much the same as a cartoon drawn in the form of a human being only so human. Would you give "rights" to a cartoon? Would you give them to a toy? Animal companions are no more animate than a motorized toy. Provide an argument to justify giving rights to computer programs and perhaps then you'll be taken more seriously. Thank you for your time. Have a pleasant day. 76.106.245.213 17:43, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

It's been a few days, but I'd like to add more salt to the wounded ego by admitting I do own my "pet" black moa and I treat it very poorly. QQ moar. 76.106.245.213 06:08, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

dispute tag

this has been on this article for over a year is someone still disputing it?- Zesbeer 07:25, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

if no one responds from when i posted that comment in a week then i am removing it.- Zesbeer 07:51, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I think the dispute tag must remain with the Evolutionary Chart table. There's not really enough systematic research to confirm the evolution details. And the reason it has sat for a year without further discussion is the topic is less important, since the introduction of the menagerie (you can easily DL any pet to unlock all evolutions and come back at any time to charm one).

I would support removing that table (and the dispute tag) and replacing it with some sort of a general statement (something like this, only better: "pets generally evolve based on the ratio of damage dealt to received, but we don't understand all the details"). In other words, if you plan to remove the dispute tag, please also remove the disputed statements.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 08:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

well seeing as no one has even been discussing it and i cant be bothered to look threw the archives to see what was disputed in the first place.- Zesbeer 10:56, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Not all disputed topics get actively discussed, for a variety of reasons.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:32, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Through a ~5 min search of the page's history, the dispute tag was added on 31 March 2008 by Anja Astor. 2008. By looking through the 07-08 archive, I found the discussion which started the dispute (at least I think that's the discussion, as the adder of the tag only commented there). Apparently the dispute was by an IP. Yes, an IP - albeit one who has lots of edits and has been around since 2007. But one who provided no proof for its claim of "the table is wrong" - a table which has changed very little over about three years despite the dispute and it "being wrong." I say that the dispute is over and we can remove it. Oh, and by rough searching, it seems the table is "wrong" because it is "impossible" to get an Elder pet in PvE (without Wyn of course). -- Konig/talk 01:44, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) i asked john if he could make some kind of statement about it.- Zesbeer 01:47, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Konig: can you restate your point? I'm confused by it. On the one hand, you say the dispute (over the accuracy of the table) is resolved; on the other, you say the table is wrong.

However, I think it's moot; I think it would be better to remove the table altogether: (1) it's unlikely that anyone needs to know more than evolution is affected by damage dealt vs received (and perhaps vs healed); (2) it's unlikely that anyone is going to verify the details b/c the menagerie removes the need to train your pet (death level it and get the evolution you want from Wynn). (Still, Zesbeer, thanks for asking Stumme about it. I'm still curious about it, even though I'm not convinced the details are correct here.)

Does anyone have any objections to removing the table and replacing it with a generalized statement?  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

My point, TEF, was that the dispute tag was never supported - it was merely constant statements of "the table is wrong" with nothing to back it up while people could back it up. And removing the table is a worse option because you're reducing the quality of the article when nothing has been shown to provide that it is wrong. And, as I said, what was claimed to be wrong was that you can obtain an Elder-tiered pet in PvE through normal leveling. Something even I have seen done. And people, while not having to train their pets, still can which is merit enough for the knowledge to be looked into.

We're hear to document everything not merely what we want. So yes, I object to removing the table. -- Konig/talk 03:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Gotcha, there was never a dispute...and coincidentally, etc. Thank you for explaining.

If the table remains, then I think we need to make available the supporting evidence. I can't prove it wrong, but I wasn't convinced by what I saw published either. Which is my point: are we documenting fact or speculation? The fact that the table hasn't changed in some time doesn't make it reliable (I've found older inaccuracies here and on GWiki); sometimes things don't get corrected for all sorts of other reasons. It's very difficult to watch a pet evolve through to L20 and be sure that you've counted damage dealt and received. (I've tried just watching while death leveling and ZZzzz.)

In any case, I think there are other issues with the article and would like to address those before offering my support to featuring it. If we do that, I would also volunteer to find the supporting research and make sure it's easier for others to find (e.g. by offering it either on a sub-page or in my user space). Is that a more acceptable possible compromise?  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:39, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Keeping short: We're here to document player observations. They will be flawed at times, but they should have support. And said support for the 3 year+ old table should be somewhere in the 3-year+ old talkpage archives. -- Konig/talk 04:25, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

About the whole "leveling an Elder pet", I've always gotten unevolved pets (which are functionally the same as Elder) by leveling the pets while farming Vaettir. The build is

Just send the pet in with a bow, run away, farm. So basically the only dmg they do is 2 or 3 hits on a mob that has very high armor against non-armor ignoring damage and most of the damage they take is from degen hexes, which might not count as damage taken (not sure on that one). razor39999 11:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Exp. from quest?

Do pets gain experience from quest rewards on outpost? I can't find references to this and I want to know if ny DoA character is going to evolve at a much higher rate than the pet (1000exp everyday from VQ reward). 89.130.39.177 22:01, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

They do not, even if the quest reward is given in an explorable area. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 22:05, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

If you read the article, you would of noticed it states: "The experience bonuses from missions, quests, and experience scrolls do not apply to animal companions."

Thanks for the info, I passed over that note without really reading that :P 46.27.78.23 21:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Pwoned by Evolution

Well, after looking over this page numerous times and the section on pet Evolution and how "high damage dealt to damage received" = an Aggressive Pet, my roommate and I decided to give it a go in Pre Searing. I dropped my current pet (I'm a level 14 Warrior with Ranger secondary and an 8+1+1 in Swordsmanship and a 9 in Beastmastery) and tamed a new Stalker Pet. We let the Pet kill Oakhearts on repeat while they were focused on my roommate's Monk and his Monk kept Shielding Hands and Reversal of Fortune on the Pet at all times in the extremely rare event that one of them did throw an attack the pet's way. When the Pet leveled to 10 and could no longer get adequate experience from the Oakhearts, we began carefully selecting groups of Charr that had two Shamans and two Warrior, and then killing the Warriors while they were on the Monk and when all was clear, letting the Pet attack the two Shamans from behind while the Shamans focused on the Monk and I, and the Monk kept Shielding Hands and Reversal spammed upon the Pet as a precaution, and 99% of the time the Shamans were more than willing to attack the Warrior who kept using Frenzy and and Healsig and the Monk was was simply a natural target.

This took us several weeks, as you can imagine, but we were able to level the pet to 12 on the select groups where he got to do massive damage and received almost none, with no deaths or encounters with degen. The pet would often take five or more minutes to kill two Shamans who kept Infusing each other while Healing Area as they attacked us. In theory, all our work and effort would result in an Aggressive Pet upon Evolution, however once he hit 12 and we mapped back to town and stepped out, the pet was merely Playful.

So yes, I feel we were Pwoned by Evolution, as we worked our asses off trying to evolve an Aggressive pet and were especially careful to make sure he didn't take damage but delt massive amounts of it. This does make me wonder if it's even possible to evolve an Aggressive pet in Pre Searing Ascalon. Does anyone know if this has ever been done? ~ Screwed 95.154.230.191 20:45, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I just evolved an aggressive level 11 stalker in pre. First, my level 1 ranger charmed a level 5 stalker. I only used Charm Animal and Troll Unguent on the ranger until level 10. The stalker and ranger leveled to 10 on Oakhearts while the ranger tanked with troll unguent at melee range. Hit Oakheart with sword a few times, escape out, and use troll unguent while the stalker kills it. Attribute points were used in beastmastery with any remaining put in wilderness survival. We killed a few extra Oakhearts until the ranger was 10% of the way until level 11. Then, I used the Farmer Hamnet quest to farm the 2 bandits outside Foible's Fair using the fire imp while keeping the stalker out of combat for the most part. Attribute points were used in marksmanship and wilderness survival. The monk at the shrine helps out the fire imp. The ranger helped some with read the wind and troll unguent. The stalker took some damage but was set to run away and not tank. Finally, the stalker dinged level 11 and after zoning was aggressive. I think it is important to let the stalker get big kill hits and to not use any heals on it. 98.242.88.176 11:13, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

heel

will my pet get xp if i keep it at heel?

Yes. It appears to gain experience through foe deaths the same as you. You can even let it die and it will still continue to level (which is sometimes better for low level pets). — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:14, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

ahh ty--Icyyy Blue 19:33, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

No differences between animal types?

To clarify, is it correct that each type of animal (aside from damage type) has not only the same dps/health, but essentially the same behavior (i.e. no skills)? The notes say that the bear has a skill, but is that the only animal with one? 76.253.0.17 21:32, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Aside from method of obtaining the pet, yes, that's correct. | 72 | 21:59, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

Don't forget, though, that the slow activation of the bear's skill reduces the bear's average dps, making it the only pet with a different dps. I can understand wanting to do the challenging thing of charming the bear in pre-Searing, but I don't understand wanting to keep the bear afterwards. Well, actually, sort of I do. I understand vanity. After all, I bought Vabbian armour for my necromancer... Cynique 07:09, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

A reason for keeping the bear afterwards: Because it's skill can trigger several Paragon skills and also (I think) some Ritualist weapon skills, making them capable of quite high dps without using any Beast Mastery skills. Obviously, you would have to take said Paragon/Ritualist skills but they can benefit the whole party. Titan Crow 09:58, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Remove speculative note about pet XP

"Some players believe that pets share experience earned with other pets in the party; however, no one has offered experimental evidence one way or the other." Sounds redundant, and probably should be removed. That's pure speculation, and really doesn't belong here as it adds no valuable content to the page. --Kristofferus 04:54, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

With some shortening to remove the "Hello, I'm useless" factor, it might inspire people to test the theory | 72 | 17:01, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

There's been a speculative note about how pets gain experience for over a year and that hasn't inspired any testing. Maybe this thread will.

To Kristofferus's point: on the one hand, I agree that empty speculation almost always clutters articles. However, for pets, this is an obvious gap in our knowledge and we should document the missing info rather than just remove the note wholesale. What about something like, "To date, no one has fully explained the mechanics of how pets gain experience." ? — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:20, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Im not sure if this is any help but I know that if you have several pets of varying levels in a party, the lowre level pets will level quicker. Titan Crow 18:15, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Lower level creatures of any sort level more quickly, since they need less experience to reach the next milestone. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:23, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

ok, so that was absolutly obvious, what a tool am I for not seeing that! /doh Titan Crow 18:29, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

All I can say is that it seems they just get experience from anything that dies in the area. Regardless of who kills them, or if the owner gets experience or not. I've seen them leveling up when they were dead by one shrine, the owner AFK in one place, and the party killing stuff in another, so each one was outside radar range from each other. MithTalk 16:28, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

The biggest problem with testing pet XP gains is that the only measurement tool is when they level; there's no way to tell if they gain 5 xp. Probably the only way to confirm/deny a theory is to take L5 pets, let them die quickly, and then try out the various combinations in each of at least four dimensions (party size: 1/3/6; owner status: dead/alive; owner proximity: near/far; other pets present: yes/no) and kill foes til you puke. That's a lot of work for relatively little knowledge. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:36, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Or take a pet through a mission, where you know for a fact it'll level at least once. Repeat the mission, but give all of your heroes a pet, and see if they attain the same level. You'd have to get a fresh lvl 5 pet every time though. 91.177.45.174 11:51, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

White Jingle Moa is missing from Types of damage table

White Jingle Moa --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.109.173.40 (talk • contribs) at 23:56, 14 February 2012 (UTC).

Thanks for letting us know. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:08, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Skills disabled upon companion death in PvP too?

When I am playing PvP that involves death penalty, when my Panda dies, my skills are disabled for 10...4...3 seconds (depending on their Beast Mastery; see below) yet I thought this only applied to PvE only. Is this a bug? --Combatter 13:02, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Just tried in Isle of the Nameless (PvP) with a pet Warthog with the same results - my skills are disabled (in addition to the companion receiving DP. --Combatter 13:32, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Footprints?

Why do the footprints of pets look like human feet??? Since when do animals wear boots! 99.72.195.220 16:34, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Having a real problem with "evolving" pets

I'm trying to get a pet to evolve, but nothing seems to be happening. It keeps going up levels (15th now), but no evolution. When does the magic occur? (yes, I've renamed it.) Daddicus 02:04, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

20th level, but no obvious evolving. What is supposed to happen? Any visual changes? Daddicus 05:18, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

OK, he did evolve (dire). How can I tell that without turning him over to Emryd? Daddicus 05:25, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

you cant if you changed the pets name. I just unlocked all the other teers with bath faction...- Zesbeer 12:42, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

You can clear a customised pet's name by typing "/petname" on its own. This should help u see its evolution. --Combatter 16:06, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Oh, thank you! That's perfect! It's exactly what I needed, as I can do it as I'm picking up or dropping off pets at the ZM. Thanks!!!! Daddicus 18:50, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

You're welcome - glad to help a fellow animal lover. ;-) --Combatter 20:14, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

EXP scales to pet's level

Even though it seems logical, and I've tested it myself, this note is not present on the page. Remove it if you deem it unnecessary. 91.177.164.109 13:50, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Aesthetics

Did they go back and up the visual quality of Tyrian pets or have my standards just dropped? 180.131.218.252 13:48, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

Do you have the "better texture filtering" graphics option enabled? MithTalk 16:19, 7 April 2012 (UTC)

New wording (removing Emyrd's name)

Silver Edge, are you sure the new wording you added is what you want? It carries the implication that you can drop a pet off at any tamer, and that pet/evo combo will be available in the Menagerie. I'll take your word for it, but this seems new to me. Daddicus 01:54, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

The previous wording implied that you can unlock your current pet for other characters on your account via Emryd the Tamer only if you gave/release your pet to her, which is false. As per Emryd the Tamer "It is not necessary to release the pet for it to be added the menagerie. Simply showing it to Emryd is sufficient." --Silver Edge 16:08, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

OK. I thought the changed wording meant that you could drop a pet off at any tamer anywhere in the world, and you could then reacquire it in the Menagerie. I guess I can only get that by trying to figure out the change. The raw wording itself is OK.

Thanks for the clarification! Daddicus 00:03, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

The current wording still sounds like you release your pet to Emryd, and then she unlocks accordingly. 67.80.218.38 09:55, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I'm assuming you're commenting about the "Zaishen Menagerie Grounds" section, which I didn't edit when I made the above comments. I have edited that section and the rest of the page. --Silver Edge 06:22, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

Roller Beetle?

File:User Fantil Swift Roller Beetle Pet.jpg

Roller beetle pet?

So, a friend of mine and I, decided to go questing. Shes on her ranger, and she brings her pet. Somehow, her pet is a roller beetle. Neither of us know how this happened, but it's crazy. And if this is normal, how do I manage to get my hands on one! D: Obby Armor is Ugly PERIOD!Why? Ask me on my talk page =Pantil Swift 05:25, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

So, after a bit of research, I found out that a regular pheonix pet, for some reason look like a roller beetle, after you charm it and move into a diffrent zone. Not sure why this is happening, but it is. I also don't know if it will work with a max leveled pheonix. Obby Armor is Ugly PERIOD!Why? Ask me on my talk page =Pantil Swift 05:50, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Looks like a bug that has allowed the frames to swap I'd guess.. festival stuff working as intended - its gotta be related to the rollerbeetle suprise update. There's probably a phoenix model as part of the new rollerbeetle race. Chieftain Alex 08:21, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

→ moved from Talk:Charmable animal#Rollerbeetle Pets!

As of earlier today (24 january), level 20 pets seem to be turning into randomly colored rollerbeetles! This is just awesome.  :) Myself and some allies tested several different pets. It seems to be non-exotic level 20s (a level 5 hyena, level 10 snow wolf, and a rainbow phoenix did not change), though a level 20 imperial phoenix did change. I'm guessing this is happening because of the approach of Canthan New Year. Singing Wolf 10:25, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Apparently the pets in the zaishen menagerie are unaffected. Chieftain Alex 12:49, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

I saw that too, I love this change, even if for the CNY, still <3 it.MystiLefemEle 13:05, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Black Moa did too. fixed now and none too soon... beetle noises get annoying >.< 72.71.220.187 00:05, 26 January 2013 (UTC)