Talk:Winds of Change/Walkthrough

Gyala Hatchery

Gyala Hatchery isn't required for Cleansing Rhea's Crater and Cleansing the Silent Surf. I ran my ritualist from Harvest Temple to Seafarer's Rest for the quests without doing the mission. --Sinharath 01:25, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

No but you need to complete the Befriending the Luxons quest first as it is the only way the Gatekeeper for the Unwaking Waters (luxon) will allow you into the Luxon side. Also, in case your playing with another person, everyone in the party has to have completed it in order to gain access. 67.163.242.176 16:31, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

21 quests?

As far as I know Arenanet said that there were 21 quests (+21 HM quests).. After doing all quests and also looking at this page, there only seem to be 20 quests. Is one still missing or did Anet lie to us? 217.227.95.4 09:04, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

One quest was cut for a better to be continued spot. It wasn't a lie as then 42 were planned. Things change between making and releasing. Konig/talk 09:12, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Well thanks for your answer. May I ask where you get your information from? 217.227.95.4 11:58, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Um, I don't think there are HM versions of the optional quests, or is there? If not, then there are only 37 total quests. --Moto Saxon 13:51, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

@IP: I'm part of the Test Krewe, Stumme told us before release. I figured sense no one of the live team stated such, it'd be fine if I explain why there's 2 quests short. @Moto: There's HM versions of every quest. Konig/talk 20:32, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Holy damage against Afflicted

This statement is incorrect. I run a Smiting monk and I have not seen any of my smiting skills do double damage against the Afflicted. The mistake may have arisen from the fact that some of the new Afflicted Rangers use Frenzy, and would therefore appear to be taking double damage from skills such as RoJ. - Zaxares 00:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I was curious on this as well since old Afflicted weren't affected by such. Originally the statement with holy damage was that it was suggested to bring - why was never stated - I assume it meant holy as an armor-ignoring damage (or lack of additional armor against in some cases). Konig/talk 02:55, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

For that matter, I have "found?" that NO secondary skill has much (if any) effect against the Afflicted. I ran a W/E, W/MO, W/ME (Smiting) in all of the Kaineng City quests and the Minister Cho's quest on the island, and found that my character treated ANY arms (wand, staff, rod, etc) as a "melee" weapon and acted accordingly. The ONLY effective skills that I found usable were my Warrior skills--- even the EoN skills were next to useless!! This same effect "seemed" to hold true for my H&H in all of these missions. AoE skills (secondary) either didn't work at all or were just ignored by the Afflicted. Please note that the An Fah and the Jade Brotherhood, in these same missions, WERE affected "normally"--- this issue "seemed" to only affect the Afflicted and the Managerie animals.Undouble 00:21, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Have you tried actually putting attribute points in those skills' lines? 67.182.25.175 05:44, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah, Doh--- yeah 12 in each to be exactUndouble 01:35, 13 July 2011 (UTC)

I guess it is safe to say that holy damage is useful against afflicted because their necromancers tend to steal your minions tro verata aura, and the ritualist used SoS. Dervish with banishing strike and avatar of balthazar might be useful. Skyblue trueaim 13:36, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

September, 30. Update questchain

I'm adding some quest to the Walkt. The rescue attemp is given my miku, not the kaineng npc as stated. After it, you will have to speak with that NPC again, and the quest to help the angchu will start, which at the same time gives Free Birds. 90.165.147.128 05:45, 30 September 2011 (UTC) IGN Gryphus Lionheart

Hard mode

Maybe it's obvious for everyone, but in order to do the new questchain in HM, you need to have done the HM versions of the previous ones too. Yes, I know, obvious, but maybe there are people who don't know that. Linu 05:53, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Question

i have a question are these quests repeatable especially the latest ones as ruby and saphire quests would be useful to farm 62.249.244.141 14:26, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

No quests are repeatable to my knowledge - like the main War in Kryta story quests. Konig/talk 18:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I amazed! (not really)

I'm amazed at the duplicity of the people who write this stuff. I (and MANY others) pleaded (over and over again) to have a strong statement that taking WoC (phase 1) quests could essentially destroy any character being played by a less-than-stellar player. But, that was called "editorializing" (or something like that) and removed by the wiki gods here.

And yet, right on the top of this new page are six tactical/strategic suggestions about how to handle things.

Surely if it is OK to explain what skills to bring and how to handle certain professions, it should be acceptable to warn people of the extremely difficult nature of phase 1 with more than the watered-down version we lesser-beings (i.e. anybody not part of the "in" crowd on the wiki) were forced to accept. Daddicus 06:00, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I didn't follow those suggestions, had no elite on my own bar (a sin), and went out with heroes (and occasionally a friend, who's a warrior, joined). No cons either.

I had no issues, even Cho was easy.

I really don't know why people say Phase 1 quests are hard... it's tedious and repetitive, yes, but hard? No. The replacement spawns on Shing Jea is another story. Konig/talk 17:45, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Phase 1 quests are hard for some people. The 3H/5H/7H teams I run haven't had any real trouble (at worst, I've swapped hero X for Y, without changing more than a few skills among the crowd). But I know a lot of people whose typical teams aren't up to the challenges. The wiki is supposed to be suitable for all people, whether skilled vets, journeymen players, or even long-time players who have managed to muddle through to the Beyond content.

So it doesn't help when those who aren't having trouble call those who are poor players. But neither does it help for those having trouble to call people elitist because they aren't having trouble.

The wiki shouldn't be in the business of telling people how they should choose to enjoy the game. We now have numerous notes warning people that once you start WoC, there is no way to go back and that some people find the new spawns challenging. That allows anyone to choose whether to begin WoC or not.

On the other hand, we have, to date, done a poor job of documenting just what changes in what areas and when. Some areas have new, challenging foes. Some areas mostly have the original foes. In addition, ANet changed the density of foes in MiniCho's estate, which might have made VQing doable for non-stellar players.

In short, we should be able to find some balance in our walkthroughs and thus avoid fighting over whether to include the WWIII-headline warnings that were alarmist rather than informational and the implied message of you suck if you can't manage WoC that some would like to deliver. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:31, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

The problem I have is the double-standard (which is why I used the word "duplicity", as in "the state or quality of having two elements or parts; being twofold or double", and did not engage in name-calling). There's a very clear double-standard going on.

As I said before, "challenging" implies fun. WoC (phase 1, at least) is not even close to fun. It's horribly frustrating and very expensive (i.e. consumables), and even at that some (me, for one) are not able to complete it. I can only hope that when we get access to more elites (for our heroes) that we might be able to complete it. I would prefer letting other potential victims know about it before they start, so they go in with their eyes open. "WW III" terminology isn't needed (although that's what I originally proposed, more or less), but "significantly more challenging" simply isn't strong enough.

One more thing, to Konig, who mentioned how easy WoC was: This is Factions. What about players who ONLY have Factions or Factions & Prophecies? They don't have heroes. Care to re-think your position? Daddicus 19:37, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

well, for those three dozen people out there that don't have the full game... they're probably not interested in beyond anyway 24.130.140.36 19:43, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

"What about players who ONLY have Factions or Factions & Prophecies?" While Winds of Change is available to those who only have Factions, it's not really intended for them. The Live Team is creating Beyond with the assumption that the players have multiple campaigns - why? It's been four years since Eye of the North came out. People are nigh expected to have either EN, NF, or merc heroes at this point, and honestly speaking, those who don't are in the vast minority. Heck, I say that the IP is generous in saying 3 dozen. Konig/talk 19:47, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I weas counting active mule accounts, though not inactive ones or bot accounts 24.130.140.36 19:49, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Some people believe the WoC content to be barely challenging; some believe it to be insanely difficult. What should a neutral article present? It can't be insane or there wouldn't be be tons of people who have succeeded in the HM versions. It can't be easy or there wouldn't be lots of people put off by the difficulty. So, I think the fairest presentation is what we have: if you start it, you're stuck with more challenging mobs.

I'm a big advocate of the principle that nothing in the game should take you more than 60 minutes; if it does, then revisit your team composition, strategies, and tactics. (Sure, I make exceptions for things like UW, which arguably require 3-4 significant objectives, VQs where the red dots are hiding, and so forth.) I have seen lots of people (including myself) claim challenges to be impossible, only to be able to overcome them by changing their approach.

The strategies/tactics posted at the top of the walkthrough are not elite; they are general comments about what has changed (enemy necros steal corpses), common advice useful anywhere (ball-up foes, apply AoE; don't over-aggro; pull), and general ideas that have specific application in WoC (deal with enemy spirits; target one set of foes first). There's nothing there that can't be pulled off by anyone who managed other challenging situations (Gate of Madness, Eternal Grove, etc.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:47, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

New foes

I don't think there's any debate as to whether the new afflicted and scavengers are "significantly more challenging" than the old afflicted; the vast majority of debate I've seen has been as to whether the new foes are notable (instead of facerollable) or ridiculously hard. Motion to modify the note at the top to indicate that the foes are much harder (and let the reader decide for himself what that means; most experienced players already know what to expect, anyway). -- Armond Warblade 02:39, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

How about, Some players consider these updated areas to be extremely challenging.  ? (PS don't forget to change it on both articles, WoC and /walkthrough) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:53, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I could go for "extremely". With "extremely", I won't complain any more. (I'm NOT promising not to empathize with other players in this predicament, however. :))

NOTE: It does not need to be on the phase 2 stuff. If someone is up to phase 2, they've obviously already learned about the difficulty. Daddicus 05:40, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I was thinking of just changing the first number to say "These updated foes are significantly more challenging than their Factions counterparts." -- Armond Warblade 06:42, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't see any material difference in significantly more challenging than...counterparts and extremely challenging — either conveys the idea to beware (here: there be dragons). I'm okay with either phrasing.

I am against any text that distinguishes part 1 from part 2; that's an arbitrary distinction that only affects ANet's release dates (which are important to their workload, but have no bearing on people playing the game...after each part is released). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:59, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

I was ambiguous; I meant to emphasize the removal of "some players...", as I doubt it's significantly less than "all players". -- Armond Warblade 07:34, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'm going to put this on rfc and if there's no objections in the next couple days I'll change it to state that the new foes are designed to be significantly more challenging (which I think is a sufficiently neutral and accurate way of putting it). -- Armond Warblade 21:40, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

What happened to "extremely"? It seemed we were all agreed. Daddicus 06:07, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

I responded based on my misunderstanding of Armond's original suggestion.

I support the current suggestion, which is to remove some players and leave the rest alone — not everyone agrees that the new foes are extremely challenging (but everyone has agreed that they are more challenging, even significantly more). Also, we is currently composed of Armond, Daddicus, and TEF, which is why Armond added a request for comments. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:29, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, for a few minutes I had hope. Daddicus 07:25, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Not Hard NPC is just retarded

Ok, any1 doing this with souly heroes, will notice, hey this is easy even for Hard Mode, until it comes to a spot where tanking would be optimal, except a retarded NPC named Initiate Zei Ri, has nothing but motivation to follow in and fuck up a lure/tank, ANet as smart as every1 says them retards are, still havent gotten the idea rto put a "Click on to Follow or stay" command for NPC's but love PvP players enough to give them 1 for ghostly heroes, IF PEOPLE were able to just click on Initiate Zei Ri and make him stay why they lure, WoC would be atleast 40% easier --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.131.180.115 (talk) at 09:31, 3 January 2012 (UTC).

Although I agree with your point, it took me at least an agonizing minute to get through that "sentence". Please... Learn 2 English. ~FarloTalk 10:50, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

I am not entirely sure what he said, all the dramatic name-calling and the illiteracy made him very difficult to understand. If he is upset about the obligatory NPC "guide" the storyline places in your party for each quest, this guide is no less ambitious than any other NPC companion we have ever been given. If you have made it to WoC, you have learned how to work with these simplistic 'bots. As for a behavior control button, it would completely violate the concept; this NPC is supposed to be leading us, not the other way around. Un Bunny 15:27, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

It's funny, I found the best way to beat these sections was to flag my heroes back, then pull some mobs and let Zei Ri tank them (since he is NEARLY INVINCIBLE even on hard mode.) Pulling with a longbow and then dropping behind him almost always leads to aggro on him, allowing your team to kill their front liners by the time he is dead. Then its you and your heroes vs their back line. If you have a problem then, no one can help you. The Alice 12:49, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

How Many Quests?

Reading the walkthrough, at the top it asserts that there are 64 quests; 28 in the main line (so far) and 4 in a separate chain, plus the hard-mode versions of each one. I see 28 quests in the main WoC storyline, but I see no separate 4 quest chain documented. I do see 3 optional quests "not directly related" to the main WoC storyline. If these 3 are the separate chain mentioned at the top of the walkthrough, then that is only 3 quests in a separate chain plus their HM counterparts, making 62 total. If someone can refrain from insults and name-calling long enough to check these facts, that would be great. Un Bunny 15:40, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

On the second line of the optional quests you'll see that there's an arrow with a second quest, bringing the optional quests to 4 and with HM the total is 64. --JonTheMon 15:47, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah thank you! I will take the liberty of clearing up the wording at the top without changing the substantive content of the article. Your attention to detail is greatly appreciated.Un Bunny 15:50, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Skipped a few Sections

This is odd, I've been running all my toons through NM and HM WoC content in prep for part 3, switching between them when I want a change of game-play. I just switched over to my sin, saw that Herald of Purity had the quest "A chance encounter" available, and took it assuming that I was at that point with my sin. (it gets confusing switching back and forth) I completed it and continued the storyline until the quest "Trading Blows". It was at this time that I realized my sin had never been to the Echlovald Forrest.(at least not past HzH, everything between that and the Whirlpool was fogged out) This is strange because I should have had to have gone there to complete "cleansing Morosav Trail" right? I store all my commendations and such together for all my toons so there was no way to do simple math to see if my sin had in fact skipped a section somehow. Anyone else seen anything like this? The Alice 14:01, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

where's part 3 start?

I'm confused. I forgot the names of part 2 quests which I did so I don't know where I'm going to do part 3. Ramei Arashi 00:33, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Part 2 ends with A Treaty's a Treaty and part 3 begins with Finding Jinnai. --Musha 03:51, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

HM Quests

Why doesn't ANet make the quests doable in HM off the bat? It would save a lot of time and effort in having to go back and do it all over again. I know it's entirely optional, but for those of us that can do it first time round in HM I don't see why we should have to do it in NM first and THEN HM as well. Just seems like a simple thing to have implemented. 86.184.224.49 22:27, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Why not register an account and make a formal suggestion? I agree with the idea: once Toon A completes Factions, Toons B, C, & D can go straight to HM (or not), so why shouldn't the same be true for WoC?

I think it's probably because missions/VQs use a different programming than HM quests: HM quests are seen as part of a quest sequence with two prereqs (the nm version and the preceding HM quest), whereas hard mode is a simple toggle (you're in it...or you're not). Accordingly, I wish they had labeled the more challenging version of the quest, "Challenge version" (or whatever) to avoid exactly this type of confusion. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:52, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

I made that same suggestion here. MisterB 04:12, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Lots of people register only to find that they cannot log back in again and their accounts are suspended as soon as they disagree with anything a mod says. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.141.104.230 (talk) at 14:20, 26 February 2013 (UTC).

Nah, its just that there are 20 bots created every day + they get blocked. A legitimate user (i.e. not a vandal) being suspended would be very unusual. -138.38.73.162 14:35, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Normal mode first?

Im a little confused. Do you need to complete NM before attempting HM? becaue im trying to get the two heroes as fast as possible and would prefer not to do both NM and HM. Oh, and how long did it take you guys to finish the whole thing?

Not displaying in page. Yoshida Keiji (talk) 13:10, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Its another wiki bug. (And yet again, its a bug that has been fixed on the gw2w, but not here. fuckers. ) --Chieftain Alex 17:31, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

New player guide

Is this appropriate? I don't think new players would be doing WoC any time soon. I'd consider someone a "new player" when they're still in the process of learning basics. Jeree95 (talk) 21:29, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

The Wocthrough

Surely this needs to be called "The Wocthrough"? Shaft Saint Claire (talk) 16:10, 29 July 2019 (UTC)