Talk:Animal companion/Archive2007-2008

Death Leveling Pets

Ok I was wandering Will Death Leveling a Pet from a Level 5 Bear for example to level 20 then charming it, be another route around the Dire situation then training it yourself? As the pet itself is doing "high damage dealt to damage received ratio" no matter what because it is not competing against its charmer for dealing damage ratio. But just in case if THIS is possible would the whole article become excluded from a Death level Dire Pet or etc. Sorry if what I posted is confusing the main question I am trying to ask is Does a Death leveled pet act differently than a Fully Trained pet(evolution, size and damage wise also as the pets charming difficulty seeing its level 20) and was wondering if possible if Death level pets be mentioned in the article?

Another Question on mind. Is it possible to Death Level a Pet Beyond Level 20 then Charming it? Not mentioned in article and it just crossed my mind --72.178.138.105 02:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

The max lvl a tamable pet can be is lvl 20 - Salome 06:01, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I have found the fastest way to Death Level a pet is to bring a monk hero with you. Equip the hero with Healing Breeze for him self, Flesh of my Flesh, and 2 other fast recharging/casting resurrect skills. You also need a low set of armor with 5 sup runes on it. Find the animal you want to tame. Flag the hero at your location and attack the animal once to aggro it. Change your armor to the low level armor and the animal will attack you and not the monk. At 30% dp you will have 1 life. Disable Flesh of My Flesh and let the hero monk res you with the other skills. you will die instantly, because a percentage of 1 hp is less then 1 and GW rounds it down. Each of those instant deaths will give the animal exp. Obviously you disable Healing Breeze on the hero until you only have 1 hp. Then use flesh of my flesh to be ressed with 1 hp and switch armor to regular set, and the tame the animal.- guest (Death of A Phoenix)

I found a way to death level that requires no supervision at all so that it is possible to leave the computer on and come back when the pet is level 20. Simply find a charmable animal. Remove all armour, weapons and items so that you are at your most weakened state. If you are enabled to bring heros, flag the rest of your party elsewhere and flag a hero with a repeatable res at your position, disable all skills other than the res and switch on the "avoid combat", now he wont do anything other than resurect you when you die. If you are not enabled to have heros you will have to find an animal close to one of those things that resurects you when your whole party dies. Begin to charm the animal to make it attack you then move to cancel the charm. Now all you have to do is wait. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:134.83.1.234 (talk).

I tryed this, and yes it makes the animal your trying to tame level 20 and dire in about 45-60 mins but, bewarned when i tried this my energy glitched so that it wouldnt go back up and then i couldnt cast charm animalWolf 19:16, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

I tried to deathlevel a lynx, and returned to find my heroe dead... so now i use three heroes, on flee and with only resurrect enabled, ive one of them would die, i would have two more to res me and him! Niccy 21:57, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Unevolved pets cannot be added to Hall of Monuments, WHY?

As you can see in the following image my pet (phoenix) reached level 20 unevolved. I achieved this by preventing it from killing or dying or dealing damage at all in SS/LB farming. However now I am unable to add it to the Hall of Monuments, WHY??? Can this be fixed? Deathwing Commander 15:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

You're looking at the wrong monument. a Phoenix can be added to the Fellowship monument were your heroes are. -- Mepp 16:50, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't look at that monument, I tried it in the correct one and it does not allow me to add it because the pet is level 20 unevolved apparently. What I want to know is if it will be fixed so that it is possible to add a level 20 UNEVOLVED phoenix to the Fellowship monument. Thanks. Deathwing Commander 08:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

once again that I am still unable to add my unevolved level 20 phoenix to the monument of fellowship. Any thoughts or comments? Deathwing Commander 19:13, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

My advice is to get a new pet. The bug was fixed a while back but anyone who reached lvl 20 while the bug was still operational is screwed as the bug only fixes itself when the pet lvls up and as lvl 20 pets cant lvl up,you're stuck. Thus you need a new pet. - Salome 06:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

This isn't fixed. I've just this weekend done the same thing. Got the phoenix, went on LB/SS runs, and when it was lvl 20 went to HoM, where I couldn't add it, to the Monument of Fellowship. Looks like I have to kill Shiro again. Anon-e-mouse 01:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

The Black Moa seems to be an exception though. I captured it from the quest The Beak of Darkness and added it just fine to HoM. It does not show an evolution when you tame it and it's already level 20. -- Nox Coma 14:40, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

no, the black moa is elder by default --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:87.155.224.81 (talk).

This is a little aggrivating wish I would of found this sooner.. so I capped the rainbow phoenix and leveled it to 20.. couldnt add it to HoM so I got a regualr phoenix again leveled it to 20 and yet again cant add it because it remained unevolved.. sigh now im tired of leveling birds for that freakin statue is there going to be a fix anytime soon so we can add them? --O Frost O 22:01, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Moa Bird's faster attack speed

This part of the article: "pets (other than the Black Bear) of the same level are all functionally identical, with the exception of damage types". Think it should be mentioned here that Moa Bird's have faster attack rates on lower levels compared to other animals? I did a bit of testing comparing a moa and a tiger in this Guru forum thread for further information. -Taala 00:24, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Bug maybe?

I created a new Ranger the other day, and charmed a pet while I was level 3. As normal, before I became level 5, it became level 4 with me. However, it wasn't until I was well into level 8 that it finally leveled to 5. Most of my experience came from fighting, not quest rewards, as I save those for later on. I've made Rangers before, and charmed pets at the same low levels as me and they leveled nearly at the same rate as me. Is this pet just bugged out or what? TheStuff07 15:16, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

What pet was it? ~ SCobra 20:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

A Tiger. TheStuff07 16:25, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

same problem here im now level 17 and my pets only level 11

Pets dont recieve quest rewards? Words 15:53, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

No, just from combat. MystiLefemEle 08:50, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Messed-Up Evolution?

My Mountain Eagle is level 16 and Aggressive. WTF?

There was a bug a while back where EotN pets wouldn't be able to become Dire. Either let it die a few times, then level it so it becomes elder, or get a new pet. Silavor 02:15, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

I have an Agressive White Tiger at level 20 <_< --Srakin 05:38, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

My Tahlkora and Dunkoro both have Aggressive pets. Death leveled them to Aggressive at level 11 or 12, then took them with us. Amy Awien 19:42, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

The pets that are lvl 20 and aggressive are a completely different evolution. They reside between Dire and Elder Evolutioons. I have evolved every type of evolution, including my Aggressive lion, and the Aggressive pets have a max health of 450, 30 more than Dire and 30 less than Elder. Xenktray 21:27, 16 April 2008

Is there a way to change your hero's pet name?

just wondering--88.84.99.35 12:42, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately not. -- Brains12 • Talk • 13:57, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Thats "Gay" if I may say, But is it possible to change your animals name back to the default for instance dire/or/elder wolf etcetera?

Just type /petname and it will remove your pet's name.--Pyron Sy 00:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

PvEpets

In what way does it matter what level the pet is if you use a pet from PvE to battle in the PvP arenas? Is the Elder Wolf better than the PvE pets? It's because of the constant sighthing of PvE pets used in RA.--ShadowFog 16:38, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

A pet's level effects it's health and armor. An elder pet is the 'balanced' evolution. Pet type has no impact on pet abilities or stats (except for the bear) except for damage type which varies from pet to pet. Different pet types are cosmetic. - HeWhoIsPale 16:52, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Basically some evolutions add to armor at the expense of damage, whereas some other evolutions add to damage at the expense of armor. Thus some will be better at tanking, others at damaging. Some people also just like to showcase their pets. Alaris 17:03, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Health, not armor. Pet armor is the same regardless of evolution, 80 at level 20. Arshay Duskbrow 00:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Level, not evolution. Calor (t) 00:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Moa Birds

If a Moa bird/Strider deals slashing damage, shouldn't Black Moa and White Moa do the same?--Treesbyty 23:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Probably, but the table is only supposed to include verified information. -- Gordon Ecker 02:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

An easy testing would be to moniter the damage taken by both black and white moas, then use a skill that mitigates slashing damage (i.e. bladeturn refrain) and see if it has any difference. --Xenktray 00:35, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Pet Evolution

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

Dear Gaile,

The information we players have on pet evolution is still very limited, outdated and full of errors. Therefore, I was hoping you would be so kind to share with us your own experiences on pet levelling. Also, if you could share some information on how the mechanics really work, that would be great. I have had a lot of trouble in levelling my pet into an Elder one, and I have found most information on this wiki to be wrong when it comes to evolving. So I ask you, as ranger to ranger, would you please enlighten us? Thank you for your time~and sorry to bother you if I did. Nicky Silverstar 23:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

I think Emily's is for this stuff ~ SCobra 23:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

This sounds like a good wiki project for the community! I really don't think this is something we need to provide from the studio -- the info, like so much else on the GWW, is available with research, and that research and player tips and suggestions would be great to collect. If the current information is provably inaccurate, please flag the wrong parts on the page related to pet evolution or start a thread on the talk page. In that way, the community as a whole can amend and update that page.

Now, if I find there is some random "mechanics" info that I can post, I'll do so. But I need to be careful to not take designer time to obtain or analyze that, and I don't think I can look into it for at least a few days. In that time, the page will probably be completely updated and made accurate. (Yes, I have faith in the GWW community! :) ) -- Gaile 02:20, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply Gaile. How exactly do I make such a project out of it? Because I have posted on its Talk Page that the evolution chart didn't work for me, and only 2 people replied, who both thought I was making stuff up, until I posted a screenshot, and then nobody replied anymore. The data for Dire and Hearty are correct enough, but the data about Elder has yet to work for me... Nicky Silverstar 08:29, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

If you want more comments, post a link and summary at GWW:RFC. Or if you want people to help research go to Guild Wars Wiki:Projects and create a subpage. - BeX 09:06, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thank you for the information. Nicky Silverstar 15:27, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

No signs of interest yet...Nicky Silverstar 23:00, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I am going to move this to the Pets page, and hope that someone can provide the requested info. I'll also inquire if the info is available internally, although I've not learned that is it something we can easily provide. Thanks for your patience. -- Gaile 06:21, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I have just tried levelling a pet without either him or me getting damage. I got hit once (not my pet, myself) and the pet got Playful at level 11. So that means that the damage dealt to the player has got something to do with it as well. This is in contradiction to any info on the pet page so far. May I alter the page? Nicky Silverstar 20:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a question, simple as it may be, i am still having trouble understanding how to evolve a pet to dire

Give a pet from one charr to another...

How would I swap/give my one PvE charr w/ a pet to another PvE charr? ty. --Czar 15:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

You can't. You'd have to re-charm pets with both PvE chars. — Galil 15:03, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I've just realised that my pet plays some kind of animation after recieving xp. can anyone else comfirm or deny this? the pet is a white tiger if that is any help. At 1st I thought it was perhaps a debuff from mobs or a buff or skills from me but I have since tested it and it is neither. I beleive this might be linked to it's evolution will continue observing tho for now....

How does evolution apply to hero's pets?

Also how does one know what level of evolution a pet is? I'm asking these because I recently gave my hero a pet but have no idea about how to check it's evolution status or if it even applies.--Worldly Tutor 00:30, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Check the name, if it has no prefix, it's unevolved, if the prefix is Aggressive or Hearty, it's partially evolved, if the prefix is Dire, Elder or Hearty it's fully evolved. -- Gordon Ecker 03:46, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Now I'm confused why the chart that's being used was chosen as it shows partially evolved prefixes near the top and near the bottom, then it shows fully evolved prefixes in the middle, top, and bottom? This chart seems to be created for veteran rangers. I am new to this as I recently choose to go back to the crystal desert and take this on as a new profession. Is there an easier chart that could be created? If not a better explanation of what the chart means?--Worldly Tutor 15:49, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

The problem is that the information is only partly correct and so is the table. I have an Aggressive Lynx on my Ranger when I tried to go for Elder. The Dire and Hearty evolutions are right, any other evolution depends on luck. Without Anet willing to give more information, it's anybody's guess. 145.94.74.23 07:45, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Checking on pet's experience?

How is this done?--Worldly Tutor 05:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately you can't check pet experience. -- Gordon Ecker 06:35, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Hero Pet Names

Gaile, will there ever be a way to name hero pets as well as personal pets (In Guild Wars One?) Please say yes!!! -- RavenJWolfe 23:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

My pet is not evolving

What am I doing wrong? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.49.184.29 (talk).

What level is the pet? Have you tried resetting the name with /petname? -- Gordon Ecker 05:21, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Same problem happened to me, although it's not a problem, when a pet evolve, you wont be notified, instead like Gordon Ecker said, resetting the name with /petname should tell you what evolve your pet is going. --ShadowFog 14:08, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

I have a question, I charmed a level 12 aggressive lion from Jahai Bluffs in Nightfall, he is now level 18 and hasn't evolved to dire or elder, any reason why? --mpboarder

I picked up one of the same lions, raised it up to lvl 20 and it never evolved, maybe something to do with capturing them at level 12 instead of 5? Mkungu Mburu

Recently got "People Know Me" and trained a rainbow phoenix. It never evolved and therefore never grew in size. Very sad... first time training a pet, hopefully the one im training now will be better. any advice? Zero4549 10:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

I have been charming pets for all my characters and heros for as long as I've had GW (and later on, heros) and have noticed that quite a lot of the semi evolved pets that you find throughout GW (level 12 Aggressive Lions, level 15 Elder Crocodile, etc) don't ever evolve in size, only in level. Titan Crow 14:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

what is the different of a dire pet to a elder pet

im just confused if a dire has a advantage with a elder pet? and one thing does a dire pet lose his defense too?--Sanmigdark 16:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Dire pets deal ~15% more damage and have 60 less Health than elder pets of the same level. -- Gordon Ecker 01:08, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

The advantage of an Elder pet is that it has a balanced evolution, it loses none of its health or attack, but gains no bonus. Dire pets loose health but gain attack power, vice versa for Hearty pets. All of the level 20 pets have the same defense value.--Xenktray 01:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

There was a bug with some Eye of the North pets which caused them to lose armor rather than Health when they evolved to dire, but it was fixed last year. -- Gordon Ecker 04:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Changing A Pet

I don't like my pet....How can I charm a different animal?

Whenever I try another animal it says "You have already got a pet"

Any ideas?

-Sir Phil SP-

There is a Pet Charmer outside Ascalon City. He is right outside the exit portal through Ascalon. Talk to him and select the option "What do you think of my pet?". Then let him have your pet. That is the ONLY way to get rid of your current pet. Hope this helps you.

-Trongdore Shade-

Read this bit here: Animal_companion#Removal -- The Great Tomato 12:53, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

There are other tamers. Calor 20:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Turtle pets

after doing Gyala Hatchery for the first time (this was a wile ago) i thought to my self i would love to have a turtle as a pet and then I found out that they had a mini pet that is one so my question is why cant you get a turtle as a pet? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.165.119.21 (talk).

Usually, it's something to do with the basic model of the animal. Since pets are similar in functionality, reusing the same model with a different skin saves work. But personally, I don't logically see how a slow turtle with no teeth, claw or beak, and that grows into a huge Siege Turtle would make a plausible pet. -- ab.er.rant 06:06, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

read up on turtles and you will see that they have some of the most realy powerfull jaws... also theres alot of games that use turtles for fighting see black and white. also the same could be said for the spider and the rat and the raven.

(Edit conflict) The reason would probably be something similar to why the Pygmy Hippopotamus didn't get to be a charmable pet. Namely "It was featured during the Nightfall World Preview Event but it was removed prior to release because it was a model or skeleton that was only useful for the hippo. To keep the number of tame-able pets to a reasonable number and keep the asset list manageable (this is relevant when you're in a map and someone brings a pet and you have to download the assets for the creature), the hippo was unfortunately removed." — Galil 08:40, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Well bare in mind that the Image work for the turtle is already done. take the gyala hatchery for instance there are 6 little turtles there that could easily be made to be a charmable pet type in the game. as for the PVP issue with other player having to download the graphic new animals and increasing their load time, Really such issues can be taken care of when they release a patch. i don't pvp often but each time they change the HoH i download the patch, which doesn't affect me at all. the same goes for those with pvp only accounts each time the alter something in the pve world they upload the patch as well, even though it doesn't effect them. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:99.207.80.182 (talk).

Pets run about 25% faster than players, how the hell is a bite sized turtle going to do that when the fully grown ones move about 25% slower?--Ohnoes 00:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Because it isn't fully grown yet? - Elder Angelus 13:23, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

If you re-read Galil's quote it says that the Pygmy hippoe wasn;t added because the base model wasn;t used by any other pet. Most pets use the same base models, like the phoenix and eagle, lynx, tigers etc etc. The turtle clearly has it's own unique model and the designers don't want to have too many models for players to have to load up on maps. I assume this has something to do with map loaging times, graphics cards rendering etc etc and likely mostly trying to keep things low for PvP. 122.104.165.13 13:01, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

What about Warthogs... No other pet uses their animations.. Aerie 11:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Pets

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

Auron_Bushi: Can we get some official data on pets and pet evolution, cause right now all we got is speculation that is often inconsistant. 99.207.80.182 07:02, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Auron_Bushi: Actually I would like to make a suggestion on that matter. Perhaps if pet evolution was determined by your rank in Beast Mastery at the moment of evolutionary change (usually 10-11 and 14-15). So like if you had BM rank was less than or equal to 6 when the pet hit lvl 11 then you get Playfull or if it was 7 or more then u would get aggressive. Then at level 15 if you had 6 or less dependend on what its previuous evolution was you would get Hearty (if pet was Playfull) or Elder (if pet was Agressive), and like wise if your rank in BM was 7 or more Dire (if pet was Agressive) or Elder (if Pet was Playfull) This would allow for much greater and predictable control over pet evollution. Given the significant amount of time it takes to Level a pet it is often very fustraiting to try to follow the iffy " if pet does alot of damage doesnt die often durring this wicked long time frame"(define alot of dmg, and often) model. Especially in PVE where you may not be sure what kind of situation your getting into.

Or, if we could simple go to the pet Tammer ,usually located outside of major city, and he/she could give us an item or something that influences the eveolution of your pet. Or if we could simply go to the Pet Tammer and pay him/Her some gold and he or she could change the pets evolution as we see fit would be awsome too. At least this way you could easily Alter your pet to maximise performance W/O haveing to release your lil buddy, Acquireing a new one and starting the LONG proccess all over again.

A pen for pets would be sweet as well. simply go to the Tammer and switch out your pets as you see fit. Just a few suggestions on the pet thing i know allot of us would like to see the pet pin thing happen as for the other suggestions i would like to hear feed back and pluss the more people we can get to put their input on the situatioin more likley it is that a change will occur. :) 99.207.80.182 21:13, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

It has been asked many times, and despite the fact that it is impossible to get an Elder pet in PvE (I have tried every suggestion in the 'guide' on this and other site many times, without any results), they still refuse to give any data regarding the levelling. 145.94.74.23 07:40, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

How about adding an upgrade component? Like a little wagon or the cannon? if u did that you could add uprgades to other pets like Grillz or armor! you could have functional upgrades and attractive ones? It would be an interesting effect.(71.210.61.233 21:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC))

Table

I have done some major research, and I have found that the info on this site is only accurate when trying to get either a Hearty or a Dire pet. All the other evolution info is wrong (and I have tried it not a few but rather a lot of times). I therefore am updating the evolution bit. Feel free to revert it, if you know nothing about pets and rather base your information on a 2-year old, incomplete guide. 145.94.74.23 07:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

THE TABLE IS WRONG! STOP REVERTING IT! IT IS WRONG WRONG WRONG!145.94.74.23 12:57, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Not to start a Revert War, but you need to provide more information than "I have done some major research". However, you are violating policy, specifically GWW:1RV. Not to discounnt any research you have done, but the community here wants details of the research, not just blanket statements, coupled with screenshots, methods, etc. Thanks! ~Scion~ (talk | contribs) 13:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, some kind of proof/verification is definitely needed. It has been uncontested for so long, which to me indicates that it's (mostly) right. One person saying "it's wrong" is not convincing. More people confirming or proof in form of screenshots/stats would be great. - anja 13:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I'll post here rather than on my talk page, as has already been said proof; in the form of screenshots, details, and the other things Scion said; is required before this type of change. Personally I prefer the table, if the info is wrong then change the actual info inside the table don't just completely remove it. Although before doing anything it should of been completely discussed on this talk page first. As I mentioned in my summary and as Anja has also said, it has been uncontested for over a year with a lot of other edits to the article so to me that would also suggest that table is (mostly) correct.

Just for your info 145.94.74.23 there was only one reversion (the one I did) so your second comment wasn't necessary. Once it was reverted discussion should of been started here; with you providing proof; and a {{disputed}} tag added above the respective section instead of re-reverting. --Kakarot 14:19, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

One step at a time here. Proof, discussion, organization, then some sort of table. Calor 19:29, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The table may contain inacurate information, but replacing it with information you know to be wrong is no improvement. Also, the table conveys information more effectivly, so change it rather than remove it. Backsword 19:56, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Lol. Proof? It just happens that way to me, and it is not as if I could make a movie example of it. So how about you go test al these theories yourself, just to see that they're false? 145.94.74.23 12:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

And for the record, I didn't replace it with wrong info, I replaced it with correct info. The info that is in place now, it wrong. 145.94.74.23 07:48, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Gets Bigger

I Want a pet that evolves so it constantly gets bigger. but all the pets that have an evolutionary process are gay and stupid. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.208.127.13 (talk • contribs) at 03:07, April 5, 2008 (UTC).

(Almost?) All pets grow bigger. All can evolve. So you want a pet that isn't "gay and stupid", then you call all pets "gay and stupid"? Also, I don't believe the sexuality of pets is detailed in-game. Calor 03:09, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

No, no. He wants a sad pet, Calor. Backsword 03:11, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

if my pet is great (like i am) i wont be able to put it in the hall of monuments cause it hasnt evolved

It doesn't need to be evolved to be in the HoM. You can put any pet in the HoM, but only the Black Moa, Spider, and the Imperial Phoenix have unique statues. Calor 03:19, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

nice accounts guys.

oh but wait, only special pets that don't evolve can be put into hom. i someday heared of deathleveled unevolved lvl20 pets that couldn't be put into hom or sth. —ZerphaThe Improver 19:49, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

pet evolution

I would like to know how to evolve the pet. Does it just happen, and what determines what your pet evolves to. I would like to have a dire pet, that, can deal some good damage, because I like mine to fight with me. Also I would like to make a suggestion about pets. Once the animal is charmed, you have to have Charm animal equiped. you should have a pet with you reguardless if it is equiped or not, it wastes a skill slot just to have the pet with you. That way you can use more pet skills along with your own, instead of having to have CA equipped. If you don't want your pet to come with you, you should be able to put it in some stables in a town, for a price.

I belive that is entirely intentional. Having a pet is an advantage, and thus needs to come at a cost, in order to maintain balance. Backsword 14:01, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, it is part of balance. Although you could have "charm animal" also add 200% to their damage, so without it, animals do little to no damage, and then have it so that any animal skill equips the animal. That would be a different way to balance it without having to equip 2 skills necessarily (something worth looking into for GW2). Also, pets are sometimes a liability, so it is nice to have the ability to choose not to bring it. -- Alaris 15:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

To answer your question, the page already explains (just a theory since Anet ain't talking) on how to evolve your pet. Now, that suggestion, frankly, I don't like it. With just having a pet, you are dealing around, is like bonus damage, an additional 20-27 damage, so with just having a skill in there is penalty enough, this is my thought on PvP. Now, if that suggestion were to go to PvE, it's not a bad idea (storing your pet) I was surprised when I started the game the first time, that there weren't any stuff like that for PvE, stables or a place to store your pet, this way you can collect pets from the game, this maybe an idea to far ahead, and give a title for said action.--ShadowFog 14:16, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

I still don't really understand how the evolution works. I tried to evolve an aggressive pet for one of my heroes. The pet killed almost all the foes and I and the hero took most of the damage, the pet took almost none. It evolved to playful. I had thought that the pet would become aggressive that way, but obviously that didn't work. Is there something I don't understand about pet evolution? I hope somebody can explain the pet evolution a little bit.

Pet evolution is a combination of all the damage taken and dilivered by both pet and master. If you take enormous damage to keep your pet from taking damage, then you are still having the same effect as having the pet take all the damage. My suggestion would be try death leveling. if you eant an elder pet, stop the DLing at level 11 and then use it as a meat sheild till level 16. For dire, DL it to level 16 and it will stay dire.

You don't get an elder pet that way. Stop feeding people false information. 145.94.74.23 12:30, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

on the contrary I find that to be the easiest way to get an elder pet. If you havent tried it I suggest you do, you'll find that it really depends on how you use your pet.--Xenktray 16:07, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

→ moved from Animal companion

Evidence as follows: A pet with cautious leveling to minimise damage taken (ie fighting as low level possible to still gain xp, and avoiding mesmer/necro types), constantly on Call of Protection so took none to infinitesimal damage and with using extra damage skills such as Feral Lunge, still evolved to 'Playful' at lvl 11. The Ranger took a considerable amount of damage during the time to avoid damage to the pet. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:118.90.99.7 (talk).

EDIT: Switched to a R/Mo build, and used all forms of protection spells to cancel/minimize damage to both character and pet. Took skills to increase pet damage, and still got a 'Playful' at lvl 11. If anyone has a sure-fire way to get a Dire pet, I think it should be added here. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:118.90.100.89 (talk).

I have always gotten a dire pet by raising it on the gargoyles outside of the mission right before Lion's Arch called Gates of Kryta, kill the gargoyles but leave once you reach the necromancer enemies, they are too annoying to kill, and hexes can hurt your pet. For skills, I usually bring Call of Protection and Symbiotic Bond to protect the pet from damage, and probably about 3 pet attacks like Predator's Pounce, Brutal Strike, Melandru's Assault, Ferocious Strike, or Enraged Lunge---I used brutal strike, pred pounce, and ferocious strike for energy personally. I didn't take pet rez, so that leaves 2 skills open, I usually use Predatory Bond and Call of Haste or [[Feral Aggression], that way if I get hurt the pet heals me up, but you could use Companionship or something. I switched to 13 expertise 16 beastmaster, and the pet at level 3 can tear the gargoyles apart with teh damage skills. Once the pet stops getting much experience there, I move to the area right outside of Thirsty River and kill the scarabs and giant worms right outside. The symbiotic regen on the pet cancels out damage from parasitic bond, and the scarabs don't use Chilblains since we don't use enchants. If the pet is having trouble killing enemies at first, I bring a monk hench/hero, but your pet will be able to handle itself soon enough (can see some awesome brutal strike hits on the frenzying scarabs). Repeat at that zone until pet is 20 or dire. I've raised about 6 pets dire this way, I don't know why...I just love helping raise up baby animals into giant adults, and you can make some money selling collector items and getting keys for treasure chests doing it, I guess. - Elder Angelus 13:53, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Elder Angelus, I utilized this advice just yesterday to level up a White Moa, and now he's big as a horse and ripping out eyeballs as Dire.  :) Call of Protection and Symbiotic Bond are absolutely key to success -- I don't think I ever saw the pet's health ever dip down below 95%. --GreyGhost 18:54, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

the above advice is a bit outdated, as the monster near thirsty river have had a patch added. From personal experience my w/r just took my pet when it was lvl 11 to gates of kryta to kill mergoyles on hardmode. the difference was i took a lot more damage, so i just heal sig spammed. every run and half he would ussually grow a level-- hope this addition helps --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:206.191.33.155 (talk).

You... DO Know... that.. Call of Protection + Symbiotic Bond is enought to keep a Pet from getting hurt by the Snow Wurms outside Boreal Station on Hard Mode? (Do i hear.. lvl 30 Snow Wurms?) this is what i do, 3 Snow Wurms levels a lvl 5 instantly :P Small Was Monkey 18:11, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, while I was leveling my White Moa I didn't use any BM skills at all. He's currently a Dire White Moa and (the tried and true method) I did so against the HM Snow Wurms... It's slow, but it works and can be made slightly faster with Lightbringer or Hero Scrolls. Phraedon Delerion 03:39 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I found another rather easy way to evolve the pet into a "dire". Go to the Isle of the Nameless with your newly tamed pet and head for the Master of Healing. Now just let your pet attack and damage the Master of Healing for about 2 hours while you go away to watch a movie =), your pet will never kill her. After about 2 hours you can level it to 20 using the wurm trick, preferably with a 4-5 man team for faster progression, and voila! lvl 20 dire pet. -- Nox Coma 17:37, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Pet Speed

I have been conducting some research on the movement speed of pets. Taking examples from a wide variety of pets (namely crab, rat, lynx, lion, moa, and eagle) I have fount that ALL pets move slightly faster than the Characters or Heros they are associated with. In tests on my Warrior (corrisponding test pets being Lion and Moa) I started at a distance from my target and then charged in for the attack, at which pace my pet in both cases outstriped me to reach the targer first. In another test I have seen both Lynx and Eagle race my Koss to a target from a uniform distance and beat him every time. Has anyone else noticed this, and could it be termed Valid information? Xenktray 10:10, 17 April 2008

I've noticed it too, Jora (She's an W/R) was charging with a speed boost (i forget which) and her pet (a bear) matched her speed. Also I noticed that sometimes when a pet is folowing you, it runs forward, gets right behind you and then walks for a while then catches up with you. I think that ArenaNet should give us some valid data (and explain why pets go faster than me) on the subject. Dogzrdogz 03:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Pets do go faster than their owners for what I would assume is an obvious fact that most speed boost skills would not affect the pet (other than specific beast mastery ones), and if you were running any distance, your pet would get left behind. By making the base speed of the pet faster than normal, it means for the most part, the pet can keep up with the owner Magua 09:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, pets were given a 25% higher base running speed in an update way back when, like '06 or '07, when they also gave pets 80 Armor Factor at level 20. It's awesome, because it didn't make sense that a lean, wild wolf couldn't run faster than some out of shaspe elementalist or axe-guy in heavy armor. I don't know about speed effects like "Charge!" affect the pet, but since it is 'base' speed, you can give the pet 25% boost from Call of Haste and the pet effectively runs a little more than 150% normal character speed. Unfortunately, even with the base running speed buff, pets have a hard time hitting running enemy players, but at least it is a bit better once you use the call of haste, since it also boosts attack speed.

Upgrades? Possible?

How about adding an upgrade component? Like a little wagon or the cannon? if u did that you could add uprgades to other pets like Grillz or armor! you could have functional upgrades and attractive ones? It would be an interesting effect.(71.210.61.233 21:00, 19 April 2008 (UTC))

I think it would be more practical to be able to add something runes or insignias to your pet. --Xenktray 01:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Runes and Insignias to a Pet?XD Pet - Beastmaster's Dire Crocodile of Superior Beast Mastery is Dead! XDDD Aerie swiftarrow 20:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Lol: Survivor Black Bear of Superior Teeth Mastery. =P ╙─ ╠Dogzrdogz╣ talk

My point is you would be able to give some boost to your pet's abilities and not have to spend hours getting the evolution just right. --Xenktray 17:43, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, that would be very nice. 145.94.74.23 14:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Animal Trainer?

on the main page someone mentioned something about a pet trainer that will train your pet for you and allow you to choose their evolution. is this true? if so, where is such a trainer located? Cortana aeilsa 20:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I dont think there is, but if your looking for a Dire Pet, I have a build that almost always ensures the pet will be Dire. If you want it just ask :P, Hearty is the easiest to get, just let the pet come with you when you go do stuff, Elder im not so sure :PAerie 20:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I have tried many times, to get an Elder pet, and I can assure you, the data on elder pets in this article, it incorrect. It is easier to get an unevolved pet. 145.94.74.23 07:45, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

i was wondering the same thing...but thanks for clearing that up lol...i guess i gotta lvl up tha pet myselfthe exiled ryder 09:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)ryder the quincy

Energy?

Do pets have energy, because you can steal energy through energy tap and remove it through debilitating shot but it doesnt say anything about pet energy on the wiki. ╙─ ╠Dogzrdogz╣ talk

I'm pretty sure I've been using Energy Burn on pets for a long time, and they take damage.Miss Innocent 08:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

It would be interesting to see if its the pet or the ranger who the energy stolen belongs to. If its the pet, should this even be possible? if not, then its a bug and should re reported as such.DBZVelena | (Talk page) 20:10, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

I beleive it has to do with the skill and not the pet. with energy tap or energy burn or any of those others you can damage a person with 0 energy. to the best of my knowledge pets neither have or need energy. --Xenktray 17:44, 21 July 2008 (UTC)

You actually have to have energy for energy burn/surge to work. With no energy it just shows a -0. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:125.238.184.76 (talk).

My pet is playing an animation after recieving xp...

Can someone confirm if this is linked to evolution? I have checked to see if it was a debuff or spell from mobs or buff/skill from me and it is neither. could this be linked to it's evolution? or just a bug maybe?

What Level Do Pets Grow Bigger?

Was wondering if it grows only when it goes to next evolution, or every level, or certain levels --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:207.5.116.46 (talk).

Most pets grow larger with every level up they get. There are a few pets that start at max size, and thus don't grow. They should be listed. ~Shard 01:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Guildwiki says all pets grow, but I'm 99% sure some don't. Can someone clarify? ~Shard 01:41, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

It used to be that all Prophecies and Nightfall pets grew, but all Factions pets didn't. A (more or less) recent update changed that, so now all pets grow. Erasculio 00:59, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

My linxes have never grown, it's an odd anomaly but since no one ever uses lynxes I doubt it's ever really been spotted before. Silavor 18:22, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Does Degen count for Damage?

Hi, i was just wondering if anyone knows whether or not degen counts as damage while lvling your pet. I mean, I know it isn't technically damage, but does it still affect your animal's evolution? 96.225.220.24 03:13, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I can pretty much guarantee that degen will mess up your pet's attempt at becoming dire. I took less than 50 damage total getting my pet from level 5 to 10, and my pet took nothing at all (due to monk bonds). Yet, despite our best efforts (and the fact that every one of our hits did over 20 damage compared to the maximum of five our opponents could do) my pet once again turned out playful by level 11. The only potential explanation (besides aliens abducting my pet and replacing it with a fake during a bad lag spike between two fights) was that my pet was hit with a conjure phantasm once, and a few sufferings along the way. Silavor 08:03, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

a pet without being a ranger...

An interesting trick i saw while running a guy to droks.... buy not choosing a second proffesion but still getting the ranger skills from the first trainers in nightfall, he was able to have a pet with only a paragon and no second profesion. Im not sure but maybe should be put in a notes section or something. Mashav 07:24, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Impossible. You need a ranger skill equipped (charm animal) to bring the pet with you. He might have had the pet on a hero? Heroes can have pets too, you know. -- Alaris 13:31, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Alaris it is possible. Not only is it possible but most people do it too. When you try out secondary professions in any of the campaigns, when you try the ranger profession they give you charm animal but your class doesn't say primary/ranger it's just primary. This is of course pointless as you are unable to buy new ranger skills and I don't think you can put points in your secondary profession either. Also, as soon as you choose a secondary that's not a ranger you lose your ranger skills, so to do this you may as well just pick ranger secondary as it's more of a disadvantage than an advantage. 122.104.165.13 13:09, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

You can come from Nightfall, have been ferried to the Consulate Docks by means of a player with the quest "The Time is Nigh", have the ranger secondary skill Charm Animal AND have a pet. In fact, any player caught in a place outside Pre-Searing or Shing Jea Island without a secondary profession, came frmm the Nightfall campaign.

If that guy was a paragon primary in Beacon's Perch he couldn't have a pet without ranger secondary because you must choose your secondary profession prior to leaving Istan. Boogy (Talk/Contributions) 12:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

its also possible to have a pet while your primary or secondary arent ranger...ive dont it once in nf...all you do is test out the ranger secondary(dont choose it) then charm a pet with ca...then go back and choose your secondary...as long as your in that area the pet will still be bound to you even though your primary or secondary arent ranger...too bad it doesnt stay like that lol...that would be awsome...and too much of and advantage75.24.65.95the exiled ryder

Every (pre-)character can charm an animal after accepting the ranger quest without claiming the reward. You have the pet-companion skills and can charm a pet... as long as you do not claim anything further the skills and the animal companion stays. --Silverleaf 09:27, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Just like in Pre-Searing, you can get "temporary" Ranger secondary and get Charm Animal, without being a ?/R yet.

Then you can get a ferry to Consulate Docks and another ferry to Lion's Arch.

So, (for Nightfall characters) it's possible to have a pet without confirming Ranger as your secondary (but since you're not a Ranger yet, you can't add points to Beast Mastery, so your pet will deal little damage).

Factions character need to get a secondary profession before being able to travel to another Campaign (and must be already a Ranger to get Charm Animal).

Prophecies character used to be able to leave Pre-Searing without a secondary profession (by having partner get into Ascalon Academy), but that glitch/bug/exploit/feature (by leaving Pre-Searing, a player working on LDoA would become unable to work on the Title anymore) was fixed some time ago. --NIN37 04:20, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Level 15+ Aggressive pets

Have we ever gotten confirmation that having aggressive pets past level 14 is not a glitch? Looking through the archives, I've found that aggressive pets have been around since the beginning of Guild Wars, yet no one seems to know why they exist. Has anyone ever gotten a playful pet at level 15? Also, I can personally confirm that level 15+ aggressive pets have the same bonus damage and -health as regular 10-14 aggressive pets, so maybe there is some truth to the notion that there are evolutionary possibilities between Dire, Elder, and Hearty. Silavor 04:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I have an Aggressive Pet, though I have no idea how I got it. However, as much as I tried, I never got a Playful or an Elder pet. 145.94.74.23 09:18, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

I had leveled my pet to 15 and it evolved into a playful pet. Was trying for and elder and got a Hearty. It was the white tiger. Oh well I guess I'll try again. I think every thing goes on damage delt and recieved to both character and pet, so if you and your pet die allot you'll most likely get a playful pet, and if you kill more often the naught then you'll end up with aggressive. (Shara.cook 08:45, 18 November 2008 (UTC))

Petition for longer petnames

Please? =( 76.185.168.84 02:39, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

yeah D: that would be cool T.T Aerie 13:34, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

yeah that would be really cool i would love that cause i got some pet names i want but i cant use them.......Eric Firestar

Death?

is there a part in that artical that talks about skills rechargeing and pets and when that dosnt happen?75.172.47.227 09:33, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Added. -- ab.er.rant 10:08, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

i think there are times where your skills don't get disabled i have had that happen to me a few times in ha75.172.47.227 20:04, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

after further testing i have found that in pvp if your not attacking ie not hiting anything or useing skills, and your pet dies you wont get the recharge.75.172.44.33 09:34, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Death and corpses

Im not sure, but I use MM/Beast Master set. The pets when they die, leave an exploitable corpse for a new minion. Then i res the pet. If i leave the pets behind to zone, they do become grey dots. BoW69.76.147.203 18:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Unless they have done a new update pets do NOT leave an expoitable corpse --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:207.145.102.170 (talk).

Death

Animal companions die when reduced to zero health. Each death earns them death penalty in PvP, but not in PvE. Unlike other NPC deaths, an allied animal companion does not leave an exploitable corpse and will not show up as a grey dot on the compass. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:207.145.102.170 (talk).

From "Game updates/20071113": Player Pets: no longer leave exploitable corpses. --NIN37 03:51, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

=/ Shew 22:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

A new era of pet taming?

Eweryone out there that wants more than one pet, comment here->[1] and on my disscusion page!:)) the multiple pet era shall come!;)Megalodon 05:40, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

YES I REALLY WANT MORE THEN ONE PET THAT WOULD BE ASOME ALONG WHIT PVP RANGERS GETTING TO CHOSE WHAT TYPE OF PET THEY GET ADN AlONg WITH LONGER PET NAMES.......Eric Firestar --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.52.161.224 (talk).

Pets and Legendary Defender of Ascalon

Silly thought - has anyone tried to achieve LDoF by repeatedly sacrificing the pet and res-ing with Comfort Animal in order to level the Charr bosses? Does it work, or is it way too slow? Nom 12:15, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Monsters only get experience once for killing a pet. Misery 12:18, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Lvl 3 pets

is there a list anywhere as to where you can get pets at lvl 3?75.165.99.234 01:54, 21 October 2008 (UTC) - Yes, Black-Bear in Pre-searing, or any pet level less than 3 and death levelling them.

Playful

I'm the anon who edited the Evolution section. Pets can be evolved to level 20 with the Playful status. A White Moa of mine, recently captured, reached level 20 as playful despite my best attempts to make it an Elder. I can provide a screenshot of my pet if needed. Unfortunately, I can provide no other evidence of this or the methods I used, as I didn't document anything (I wasn't expecting the result I received, but rather figured I'd end up with a Hearty or Elder), but I can assure you that I've no reason to falsify this. Cedave 00:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Dire pets without death levelling

I have a rainbow phoenix, and since there is no res shrine in HoM and you can't take any other players/heroes/hench (the pet will not spawn if you do) you can't death level it. Still, I want it to become a dire pet. I started vanquishing with it and spammed enraged lunge the whole time, so the pet did approximately 100 dmg every 5 seconds while fighting. Still, it's a playful pet now. How can I ever get a dire pet without death levelling? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:86.86.158.151 (talk).

First let it hit the master of healing on the island of the nameless for and hour or two and than do the sahlahja ss/lb run on hm with 6 ppl or heroes, it dies as soon as you enter the worm and never takes any dmg. and evolves to dire, worked for me... --89.110.198.183 22:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

How to classify the Hollyday pet?

Seeing that it probobly will not be around for the cap. after the hollydays should they be added to the list? ( the Jingle Bear... ) --89.110.198.183 22:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Pet leveling

i have got a level 11 pheonix and really want to get him to level 20 but i dont know where and how. i would prefer him dire but from what i have read its quite difficult. i Am now starting SS/LB runs from the ramains of sahlahja will this even level my pet as it is dead. Also can pets gain XP when there dead. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Crazi shot (talk).

I read somewhere....

I read somewhere that if your pet attacks, you gain the adr strike from that, it that true? Also, if Ferocious Strike is used, does that mean you get 2 strikes of adr? And also, with "FGJ!", does that adr double again? -- SabreWolf 05:34, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Pet attacks do not give you adrenaline, and so Ferocious Strike would not give you two strikes of adrenaline. "FGJ!" would double the one strike of adrenaline that you get from Ferocious Strike, but you would end up with two strikes from it, not four. Datrulegend 18:09, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

TY, be nice if it could though... -- SabreWolf 18:23, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Wurm Technique

Can anyone explain to me how I use the wurm technique and how it works, I know its in the desolation desert but I dont understand how the pet dosn't take damage and why there needs to be a space in the party. thanks- George1991 31 December 2008

From how I understand it, when you are not in the mission and go into the wurm with 7 players in your group and have a pet equipped, the pet will get its own wurm, so you - in the end - have 8 wurms. poke | talk 17:18, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok thanks, im planning on using the method of racking up the dmg for my jingle bear on the master of healing then taking it up to these wurms to get it to lvl up fast and reducing the dmg it takes and hopefully i'l end up with a dire jingle bear George1991 16:08, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Call of Protection

Since this skill recudes damage on your pet, does that affect the evolution process? E.G More chance to get a dire pet.--Sihvahn 13:48, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Call of Protection does not help raise Dire pets as far as I've been able to tell. The damage still "counts" toward Playful/Hearty. The best way is to tank damage yourself while the pet kills stuff. Arshay Duskbrow 19:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Pet size

Is there someone with enough time, who can show the size of pets, on screenshots, compared to a max sized ranger by example. I dont have enough time, and more importantly have not unlocked enough towns, to list alle pets. Niccy 10:59, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Aggressive to Elder

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to evolve an Aggressive pet to an Elder pet?

And, as im asking questions, does anyone know if pets gain experience at the same rate as a character gains experience? If any of these question were answered above, just point me to it. Thanks : ) Titan Crow 11:50 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Or, on second thought, Does anyone have any suggestions on how to evolve A PET to an Elder pet? Titan Crow 14:27 29 January 2008 (UTC)

My evolved Aggerssive Lion

When I evolve a lion to aggerssive, it won't grow in size, why? This is the third time I'v done it with a Lion but I'v done it countless times with other pets and not encountered this problem before. I know that Lions evolves in size as I have evolved several Hearty Lions in the past. I know that the Aggressive Lions from Jahai Bluffs don't evolve in size but did'nt think that would have any relevance when evolving my own aggressive one, any ideas anyone? Titan Crow 18:07 30 January 2008 (UTC)