Talk:Game updates/Archive 8

7 May 2009 Update

"Fixed a bug that prevented some pets from being added to the Fellowship monument."

Anyone figured out which pets those are? --Adul 19:34, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I believe that it is referring to a bug posted on GWGuru that some pets from the Mengarie could not be added. I could be wrong. Supervillain-Tox 22:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah alright, thanks. I was under the impression that the update description referred to new, so far unavailable statues added to the Monument of Fellowship. --78.92.3.137 09:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

That's me above. --Adul 09:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

14 may

It's here. [1]. — Why 23:21, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

So. This was an awful update. I wonder which employee decided it would be awesome to take a shit on every decent skill ever. xP Bathory talk 23:28, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Pathetic update IMO nothing big changed =S --Sam6555 23:30, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Er, I had an Elementalist build that doesn't really work now because of a change aimed at Mesmers. PnH shouldn't have been double nerfed, the duration change alone would have been fine. The three assassin skills that were "changed" still suck and need more help. LC's nerf is stupid and should have been in a change to Energy or Activation instead of making it do less healing reduction. They've been swearing that they didn't want bleeding to be easy to cause on Rangers but look at this update when you say good-bye to Melandru's Arrows and Barbed Arrows. The change to Aegis is fucking retarded and should have been done to something like Pacifism or another equally worthless skill. Now they've ripped it apart like UA but backwards. And what the hell was wrong with WE? You used your elite to use non-elite Energy-based attacks. Stuff like Eviscerate was still better. And I've never noticed Strength and Honor being that powerful. So I don't know why they're constantly picking on it. =\ Bathory talk 23:37, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

You're not very good at Guild Wars, are you? 99.142.23.15 23:43, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Bathory. There was practically nothing good in this update. Nothing got fixed at all. Wells did not get changed as promised. I would rather have Build Wars rolled back to the original release of the first chapter and have no more updates since the game gets worse and worse.

Uh, thanks for the fail at trolling, random IP person. And unsigned person, that far back wouldn't really help anything either. It'd be better if they learned how to nerf things correctly... Bathory talk 23:57, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Either fire the balance team or make the skill system open source. I'm NEVER purchasing another Anet product again.

Well, at least Elemental Lord has some use now. MithTalk 00:04, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Great. Maybe I'll use my PvE Elementalist now. Oh wait. No, probably not. Open source would be bad for skills. Although I wouldn't mind a balancing team that could come up with less BS explanations. =\ Or the ability to understand basic experimental changes. Bathory talk 00:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe they can't use all the skill feedback until they fix the licensing trouble. I found a bit weird myself not finding changes about perma sins, RoJ or Discord. If something works too well, the logical thing is nerfing it!MithTalk 00:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

the change to Aegis made me cry :S--Aura 00:14, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

The suggestion to make the skill database open source is among the stupidest game suggestions I've seen on this wiki. And I read through the GWII suggestion pages, so that's really saying something. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 00:16, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Hey! Maybe we can fire the live team and let my some monkey from a random zoo nearby take over skill balancing! Maybe then we'll have a more decent chance of seeing skills get fixed? --Ulterion 01:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

And Hey! Maybe we could step in front of a bus too while we're at it... oh, no.. wait... WE aren't doing anything..... -- Wyn 01:51, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Hi. NH and Omegaspike both took a pretty heavy nerf. How is this bad?

It would've been nice to see some other things become viable now that those aren't, though. Raine - talk 01:53, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Game updates exist to keep things interesting while improving balance. While I'm sure everyone is upset that some of their favorite skills got the nerf bat treatment, that doesn't make it a bad update. I was just in a HA group that did just fine, as we wern't running a gimmick. Gimmicks aren't meant to be forever, and if you rely on them, you shouldn't get upset when they get nerfed. Take SoH. Only gimmicks really use this in PvP, so why can't it be nerfed? Necro (mainly FF) needed a bit of a nerf. All in all, it's a pretty minor tweak. Balanced and builds that rely on gimmicks that weren't as effective in the meta are now slightly more in line with their competition. Also, Aegis change is OK, though it makes mirror of disenchantment less good, and I'd never be good enough to use it properly. -Julian 04:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Yet another demonstration of Anet's complete lack of focus on what they want to do with their own game. Just fucking shift the meta constantly instead of building a good one. Oh well. 68.58.91.59 05:58, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Lol. Good thing my expectations of the community aren't that high...at least this time, I'm not disappointed at the hatemailwalloftext that gets posted whenever they change somethign about the game. Damage balance got shifted towards physical (which is what just about everyone asks for these days) by removing Aegis and sabway got a small nerf. You should be happy. 145.94.74.23 08:00, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

My comments were less about the actual nerfs and more about the fact that Anet thinks constantly shifting the meta is ok. To use something Auron has said, you could take Team Fortress 2 for example. That game doesn't need to be constantly rebalanced because it already is perfectly balanced. I don't think it's even possible to save the current state of the GW skill system; there are too many skills and too many variables to consider. As a result, shuffling the meta around is necessary. It's merely my opinion that it is NOT fun or exciting to constantly change the way the game works. 68.58.91.59 19:17, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Meh, people that think WE was balanced shouldn't be taken seriously. Anet solved some problems, which is good, for example the turret rangers (which are much more about skillful play again) and WE, which was just fucking overpowered as a skill, but the nerf to PnH might shift the meta to Hexway again. Like every balance, there's some changes that just don't make sense and won't make any difference (such as IW) but really, as long as the amount of problems fixed (8) is bigger than the amount of potential problems introduced (1), what is there to complain? Just be happy they at least did some good things this update. Xhata 09:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Xhata you should note that PnH did not *fix* hexway.Hexway still is fundamentaly broken.It was just a OP skill to prevent OP builds.Hexes should be fixed but "we don't have the resources" seems to be the excuse Lilondra *panda* 10:39, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

It did not, it did however weaken it. Now that PnH is practically gone, hexway is slightly more powerful again. Xhata 14:06, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

One of the worst skill updates i've ever seen, all nerfs or changes. I don't see any balances here except the destruction of a axe build which does the same output as Evis. And that's this (Quote) "Just be happy they at least did some good things this update." What good? oh silly me, they added a chest to Menagerie. Righttt..... was looking for something like, Blood magic now has a use in Pvp! or VoR is no reduced to 30-50 damage instead of 105 damage. Well thanks for boring out months of waiting to make a new build of some sort. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:87.112.39.232 (talk).

QQ moar Mediggo 11:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

You are fucking bad. Go back to PvE. Xhata 14:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

That WE build was much more powerfull then the eviscerate build.It could pressure the heck out of you just by landing spikes.Pls Mediggo L2P before saying things like that.Actually NEVER say things like that.PnH was a "we don't have the resources" buff.I don't get why they nerfed it this hard Lilondra *panda* 14:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

When did 'bad' become a clever and witty insult word anyway, it makes you sound like a whiny little 10 year old. Firoas. 11:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

"You are fucking bad. Go back to PvE." <--- Pathetic Troll, WE Was better, but in terms of GvG, both spiked the same, WE was just better pressure. and for this Xhata noob, really i play PvE to, but i PvP more because i love caning idiots like yourself who think they're good. Don't cry though, or "QQ" as you losers constantly say on forums.

They nerfed PnH that hard because they don't know how to nerf something slowly and appropriately. If they even think something is wrong, they nerf the shit out of it. I suppose that taking the time to think about how it could be better balanced would take away from time developing WoW2. The only change that really affected me was Steam, and maybe I'll need to recast MoI more when I run that. But that still doesn't mean I think any of these changes are good. Blehhh... Aegis. >.< Bathory talk 16:02, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Evisc has the same damage output as Endurance... with Infuriating Heat up? Weapon of Fury, maybe? "both spiked the same" BUT WE WARS CAN SPIKE EVERY THREE SECONDS. There's a *reason* why warriors have two pips of energy regeneration - they're broken up the ass otherwise. So, in a skill that bypasses (any by "bypasses" here, I mean "stomps into the ground and spits on") the two pips limit, warriors were, essentially, broken up the ass. I do hope you can understand that.

WE allowed bad warriors to get good results. Just like turret builds allowed bad rangers to get good results. Just like VoR, Lingering Curse, IWAY, Wastrel's Collapse, Palm Strike, and Ride the Lightning.

I'm sorry, but I don't think nerfs that force players to stop being bad are bad for the game. Raine - talk 17:01, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Bathory is clueless and badnot as good as he think he is. End of story.Pika Fan 17:38, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I remember Regina saying they were waiting to put the skill update in this month(May 09) instead of April 09 because it wa going to be significant. This didn't seem all that significant to me. I expect the usual rhetoric from every other game company on the planet, but I expect more from you ANet staff. Jazilla 18:44, 15 May 2009 (UTC)Jazilla

This is categorized as a good update because they didn't nerf balanced skills or buffed them. They didn't brake skills that used to be good, and made them halleriously overpowered. They didn't nerf stances because they thought Stances were the problem. And pardon, atleast they did SOMETHING to "block" spells. In a bad way, but they did. They didn't hit things hard with the nerf stick, but they did something that didn't brake the game even more badly. Although this game is almost beyond repair unless they change some classes to the core, and maybe even change the only primary attribute that doesn't effect your secondery profession. Thats what I think atleast. Flame me :) Titani Ertan 11:29, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

One skill.... VoR..... Epic-Uber-Pwns everything, maybe not PnH, but in RA every f**king mesmer has it, and you're lucky to get a monk in a night, you have to Sync to get a good team in RA.. and for Raine.. getting good results is all crammed into Palm Strike sin flooding every PvP arena, neglecting all the other decent skills Dagger mastery held are now just skills with a Gold Trim around the outside, skills such as Moebius strike or Shattering assault, Mesmers spamming VoR, Backfire and Empathy on everything to make them cry in pain as they get wanded to death. PnH was probably the only real anti for VoR and still is. They've been trying to make useless skills have a use but by god they've just reversed everything.. nothing is actually improving.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.113.137.93 (talk • contribs) at 11:47, 17 May 2009 (UTC).

PnH was a counter? lol, PnH was a nice skill that made VoR mesmers get Energy with Inspired Enchantment or whats the skills name. Hexway is so broken that: "even if you made PnH remove all hexes from allies in earshot, it will still be broken." -Shard. The only possible counter I can think of is either nerfing all Hexes that are in Hexway, which will kill mostly all Mesmers and Necro's ingame, or make a Hex based Restore Condition. I gave it a suggestion under Withdraw Hexes. Yes, Palm Strike is broken. Welcome to Guild Wars, where have you been in the last -1...4...5 months? It was broken since A.Net broke a balanced and good skill. sounds familiar. So wakey wakey, wb to Build Wars. Have a nice grindey flight. Please feel comfortable while the 4 Palm Strikes in 1 RA team make you explode. We will land in Balanced Guild Wars land in Not too close...Next year...End of universe. Titani Ertan 12:14, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Can't touch this should affect all allies within earshot, not only the user. That would take care of any abuse of touches like palm strike. MithTalk 12:23, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Or... you can... well, make Palm Strike count as a lead attack/Dual-attack. Revolutionary. Titani Ertan 12:46, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

The point of Palm Strike being elite is to be able to land a double attack as soon as possible and hit always. MithTalk 13:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Wich in combination with cripple and non smiter boon'd EAR will always be broken ? Lilondra *panda* 05:08, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

What makes VoR so overused in is that it doesn't require any kind of skill or timing to use effectively (compared to something like Power Block). You can just spam it on whichever target, and bad people use it right at the beginning of the match instead of using it as a pressure skill on monk. Add Empathy and Backfire and you've got "anti-all" build in your bar. Same goes with Palm Strike, you just press the key and watch your character run to your target, cripple, and unleash your furious chain of mutilation. And then just SPAM it until target stops moving. Saddest thing is that ANet apparently considers spam skills "balanced", while most other Assassin elites (which are much more tricky to use) are completely inferior. And btw, I only made the line "QQ moar" up there, the anon IP person above me had forgot to sign. Lrn2read? Mediggo 05:59, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

If "Can't touch this!" could affect an ally instead just the user of the skill, it would be the perfect anti-touch counter it should have always been. MithTalk 11:01, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Popularity of PS is probably one reason why there has lately been more Paragons around with Soldier's Fury and "Can't Touch This!" Mediggo 11:14, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Guys, find somewhere else to chatter. This really isn't a good place. -Auron 12:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Wow, a whole week has almost went by. It usually isn't this slow. Dero Ahmonati 15:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Horrible mentality is horrible. --Ulterion 22:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

with regard to palm strike, if your watching its one of the easiest skills in the game to counter, just remove the condition as its applied and boom, the sins chain pretty much stops. The recharge could be at least doubled though 68.47.192.6 05:58, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, no. I agree with Mediggo about VoR. I don't agree about Palm Strike, especially with what the person above said. Hey, have you realized yet what makes Palm Strike OP and ridicules? A perma cripple is rather ok, and it's unblockable like another elite, but what makes it overpowered is it's ability to skip the need for a lead attack and start a chain of 1/4 knockdown. So please, when you are in a 1/4 knock-lock by an IAS, when do you got the time to remove the cripple? Maybe, if you have amazing timing, you can hit Spotless Soul, but thats a really hard to do, and that skill sucks compared to other skills. Oh, and I think that just Paragon's in PvP wanted to feel Imbagonic and run Soldier's Fury with Aggressive Refrain. And no, a party wide "Can't Touch This" won't work, because Palm Strike recharges every 4 seconds, and normally in PvP your Paragon doesn't run too much Command, so it will wear off in 1...3 uses. Balanced? No. Broken? Jackpot. Titani Ertan 08:44, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

A sin is running up to you, you think or know they are gonna use Palm Strike. So you cast Dismiss or such as they're using Palm Strike. It takes 3/4 second and aftercast, so by the time they are done you've finished casting condition removal and they can't KD with Trampling. Of course, that barely matters because unless you also have a snare they will just chase you with Dash and use Palm Strike again. Vili 点 18:50, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

K, so you want your monk to spend 5e every 4s to counter one character on the other team (and then another 5e every 8s to heal the damage, which is totally unprottable)? Do you not see what's wrong with that? God forbid they use Palm Strike -> Twisting Fangs or Palm Strike -> Horns of the Ox, because then your condition removal doesn't really mean shit (yeah, they're not crippled, but they can't kite, anyway, because they're either knocked down for two seconds or knocked down until they res).

Also, Palm Strike recharges in 0 seconds if you used "Can't Touch This!". Raine - talk 19:23, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

we all know the real problem is you guys not being brave enough to run dshot on your monk Lilondra *panda* 11:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

I have ran D-shot on my monk. Try and check before you accuse. Yes, I also ran a Poison Arrow Necro with Vile Miasma. Pwnge :) Titani Ertan 11:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

So how did it work out? Dshot on monk =/ -- Karasu (talk) 11:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

You make a monk, pick secondary profession Ranger, go to the Expertise attribute, and put Distracting Shot instead of an empty slot or if you wish an occupied slot. 79.182.241.134 11:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

BTW I wasn't serious (Though I have run ViM,OoB and energy drain boonprot and will proly run dshot monk aswell) 1.having a counter doesn't make a skill balanced (basic principle of balance) and 2.The only reason you'd want dshot on your monk is for the huge block of projected manliness that crushes your enemies Lilondra *panda* 05:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Cry Some More68.58.91.59 10:29, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Game update (real page)

I was looking around and couldn't find a page about game updates in general. It would be useful to have a page that explains the types of things that can happen when an update goes live, possibly with a list notable or unusual updates. ~Shard 18:50, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

And what would be the name of such a page? --King Of Kamelott 03:04, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

What about something like Help:Game Updates? Or is the Help thing restricted to wiki stuff? 79.183.55.226 04:23, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

True.Might make one if I find the time Lilondra *panda* 09:05, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

If somebody's creating this new page, he could name it "Game Update" and this page could be renamed to "Recent Game Updates"... Sounds quite logical to me. Heino 16:06, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Game Update (Event) and Game Update? With a Disamb. page of course. --Alex Eternal 09:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

How about something like Game Updates (about) and the real Game Updates? And Game Updates as the place you go to, with a link on the top like all the mission and mission outposts thingy... you get what I mean, right? Titani Ertan 10:15, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Articles should be in singular, like Game update; but I really wonder what you would like to write about it.. poke | talk 15:10, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Just what can happen on a change.Some examples.Then again I don't know if there are people that come to GWW and don't know about them.Lilondra *panda* 17:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Well, Game update actually redirects to Game Updates, but I also was wondering what type of info would be on the page. I guess I need the page to know! I know skills can be changed (plenty of examples), bugs can be fixed (again, plenty of examples), new content can be added (Sorrow's furnace, 4th anniversary stuff)... What else? Freedom Bound 17:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Festivals, of course! There are updates at the start and end of festival events that add / remove festival decorations, NPCs, and the like. Also, every month there's a new tonic added to the Zaishen chest via that month's update. April's Fools updates would also be worth mentioning in the Game update article. --Adul 01:52, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

"The Second Thursday of every month"

Good one! 68.193.113.198

Lol, the korean server move probably threw off their schedule. Also, I thought that whole second thursday thing was a general guideline anyways

Regina's journal on her page here mentioned that there was some work to do on the remodeled Xunlai house, and that there would be a delay in the points. She says it should be ready sometime next week. [2] Elysea 20:42, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

last i checked it's still Thursday :/ ~PheNaxKian Talk 20:48, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

June 11th

Commence Keg Farmer rage! 68.193.113.198

gj on pvp love, owait --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Sand (talk).

Bah! They removed decorations from Kaineng. The city looks rather dull now. Why Anet? The decorations made the city look nicer. Doomfrost 23:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

They could have kept the time of day and basic lighting the same. People loved it. It's not hard to rotate the look every now and then. This day time look is just ... uninspiring. But, that's just me. 000.00.00.00 23:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Completely agree. I loved the decorated Kaineng Center. Anet, please bring it back!!!! 69.179.146.163 02:55, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

They'll be back in about 2 weeks. Next Canthan Holiday is July 4th weekend. Not even sure why they bothered to remove them in the first place. SarielV 21:30, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I am glad at the keg farming nerf, however... as for the rest of the update [3] 68.47.192.6 00:01, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

And I _WILL_ rage on this. Vaettir is a unique farm. The idea of running through all the areas with a dwarf to farm those is genious. Ele's and Derv's can still farm them anyway, why nerf them for mesmers? Assassins will probably use sliver anyway to do exactly the same thing but slower, thus getting more drops. IMO the anti farm code drops in fast enough to stop this from being overfarmed. WHY did you do it.. WHY? -- Karasu (talk) 00:03, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Probably to try to preserve the Glacial Gauntlets as a 'prestige' armor piece. Currently, they're a joke. You can buy a stack of Glacial Stones for as little as 3k; that's LESS than what the merchant offers for them! Clearly, ANet does not want the Gauntlets to be that easy to get, and took steps to address that.

In any event, Keg farming isn't "dead". Budger still gives out kegs, doesn't he? All this change has done is just slow down the rate of farming. Take a deep breath, calm down, and go out there again, Keg farmers. It's not the end of the world. - Zaxares 00:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually it's because writing a macro to spam the spacebar (or just spamming it yourself) requires absolutely no skill and totally goes against all concepts of game design. -- Mafaraxas 01:23, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Aside from being completely implausible, and a broken game mechanic. 115.129.13.243 06:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Discovering such a farm is genious, copying is not. 145.94.74.23 06:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

So, the "merchants" in GToB are supposed to have available "late-game items." Am I missing something, or has nothing changed with the merchants? Pucktrapper 15:26, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

They have superior ID and salvage kits now. I think I'll go ahead and add a note to that effect, since it seems to be a common question. Freedom Bound 16:06, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow, yes keg farming IS dead. Unless you want to go out there and drop one keg every few seconds instead of 5-10 in a second. 68.193.113.198

Onoez, you can't win GW by mashing your face on the space bar. :( Raine - talk 20:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

...yes you can... Titani Ertan 20:52, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Depends on how you define "winning" in a game like GW. Xelonir 21:25, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Killing shit before other shit kills you. Thats the term "winning" in all Multiplayer Games (except for the Quest games and their kind, where you find shit before shit finds you). Titani Ertan 14:30, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Patience, young padawans. Dark Morphon 16:35, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

My mommy told me not to listen to green people. Titani Ertan 18:08, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

time for a update

i think it's time for a new update because the tonics are updated but i still can't get my reward tokens from the xunlai tournament so that needs to be updated

Yeah it kind of annoys me- recently Anet has been wating till pretty late in the day for updates. Sure, it might not be so late in seattle, but just about everyone else in the world has to wait till the next day to see the update, either with the update coming friday or once they're asleep. But w/e. Underated Skill 23:13, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

18 June 2009 Update

Good job ANet imo --Tyri Sunbeam 02:16, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

There's still broken shit around, and this is gonna be fucking annoying in The Desolation, but yeah. Pretty decent overall. Vili 点 02:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Haha yeah, that's what I was thinking, guess Frozen Soil just got a buff in PvE. Otherwise, we've got massive stuff here today. We'll need some time to experiment with and reflect upon all this shit, really. --Adul 02:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

hip hip! HUZZAH! Awesome update, keep up the good work and we may have balanced game after all! --Baron Maximillian Greil 02:31, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I agree at quick glance... However I'm still pretty disgusted at their perspective on Shadow Form. They're just not listening to the very vocal majority from the wiki on that it seems.

The wiki is a very small fraction of the Guild Wars playerbase. The "vocal majority" from Guild Wars players in general says to leave Shadow Form alone. While I do think the statement "We consider speed clears an acceptable way to play the game" is pretty retarded, I'm not really surprised that ANet doesn't know who to listen to. Vili 点 02:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nothing at all wrong with Shadow Form. At least assassins are not a integral part to every party. Stop monks from solo farming/dual farming and get them back with parties and that would be doing something productive. As it stands, they believe they should be the only profession that should solo farm. A better fix would be to introduce different "Raptor pit" like areas that caters to each profession so everyone can solo farm. And as far as speed clears go, it has taken me two months to learn 3 of the 8 positions in an underworld SC. Even then, the AI and varing spawns require a clear head and quick thinking. quite dificult untill you have done the run 10 or more times. Now that the Paragons got their PvE buff there will likely be a Paraway revival... guess there are people that think that should be nerfed too... Why can't those people just get the build and do it rather than screw with the fun of others. Another fix ANET could introduce is crazy, unpredictable AI's in Hardmode. How about the single Dredge gardiner in Urgoz that has a 10% chance of being a smiter, a 20% chance of being a trapper,a 60% chance of being a healing monk a %5 chance of being an "Aura of the lich" mm that creates life stealing touch minions, 4% chance of being a prizmatic Ele with 300 energy and a 1% chance of just sitting in a patch of greenery working his field. And if you come back to the area 15 minutes after you enter his radar he/she will have a moss spider egg in his patch for 1 random party member. The best way make each trip to the COF an adventure is to remove the predictability. Don't change NM for those who like repetitive farming.

While I'm here I may as well give my condolences to poor Budger. they may as well have made him a collector that sells explosives similar to Alkar's Acid bombs. He is completely usless as a keg supplier in a place with no walls to blow up. Adversaries can now heal and sit down for afternoon tea between kegs. It's nice to know their powder keg stations inconveintly located arround the dungeons but it doesn't require anymore skill to run to a station than it does to remember to make a trip to old Budger and stock up on a few non-stackable kegs to help clear the way in dungeons. Increase the use between time to 30sec to make them primarily useful for doors and weak walls. I mean really... How would you like to go from being the most popular npc in the game to just standing around in the snow and everyone ignoring you on the way to do something exciting. beyond that I agree. good update.

Vocal Minority <-- Familiar? Rolain1 03:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

GG Cry of Pain Rolain1 03:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

omgomg very niec! GG anet lol! after the last update.. eh good izzy good! But you could fix SF and 600/smite tho:P - Wuhy 06:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Wow. I'm shocked. Finally, I can say: great update A.Net. Titani Ertan 09:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Eh, checking linsey's page reveals that she has done most of it not izzy! yeah thats why Xd - Wuhy 14:07, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

No Tournie Rewards

The update states that the tournie rewards are available however, they're not. 24.188.207.20 02:35, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I see some people getting them and just as many not getting them. I cant get mine either and I know I made predictions in fact I still see my predictions in the ZTH. Tenri 02:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I received mine (just to have at least one positive here) -- Mafaraxas 02:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

1 out of my 4 accounts got points......55 of em =S --Sam6555 02:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

May's reward points. Due to the current economic situation of the world, we have to delay June's reward points until further notice. We apologize for the inconvenience, but it was far more important to introduce large amounts of lag and more bots to the American servers, as the current situation was too unfair for the Europeans. However, we are starting to look for competent people to hire in our QA department. LoL, I used an oxymoron - Competent QA people! -Drakora 02:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

2/4 of my accounts were able to get the rewards. I've got 55 points each. I remember reading somewhere something about having to participate in some kind of PvP matches before qualifying for tournament points through XTH. Is there any thruth to that? --Adul 03:19, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

No. You don't need to do PvP to get points. I've never PvP'ed on one of my 2 accounts, and I get points just fine. -- Alaris 14:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Signet of Binding on Slaver's spirits

If you take control of them, will they still res? Or are they even ownable? Imagine taking control of all of the spirits around Duncan, and using summon spirits. 76.84.34.210 03:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

This is one of the first thoughts I had when we got the update- sounds like something really cool to try out. Underated Skill 17:41, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

June 18 Update and Hero AI on corpse exploitation

Has anyone else noticed that heros no longer use minion spells (only observed on animate bone minions, though) by themselves even if there are corpses available? I just played with a hero and he just sat there with only 2 minions and 4 corpses on the ground (not sure if he only stops casting outside of battle). Stellarashes 03:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Update - Thursday, June 18, 2009

WoW.....not a single buff...thats sad.... I dont know who is in charge of Skill balancing....but i dont think i have ever seen a worse skill update...PS,LC,VOR,and E prism were very OP and i understand the nerf's But NOT ONE SINGLE BUFF? Are you kidding me...people wonder why this game is dying...this is why....Mix it up a little bit Buff under used skills....It would be better if something was buff'd and made horribly OP then absolutely no buff at all. ALL this update does is restrict game play, the changes to weapon skills and spawning show how terrible the game is becoming...instead of promoting cross classing all you ever do is discourage it. As games grow older the games become more balanced and the amount of playable content INCREASES not decreases.I am aware that PVE is like 90% of the player population but pvp gets n update 2-3 times a year which is sad, especially when nothing changes not a single new build is created by this update, all people will do is either A use the same skills less effectively or B fall back on old less effective skills....

WTB NEW SKILLS / BUFFS --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:174.115.129.190 (talk).

Did you even look at the ritualist section? Rolain1 06:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I'd say it's quite obvious he didn't. I'm really looking forward to see how playing a Spirit-Rit feels after the update. Xelonir 06:55, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Like am Automatic Rifleman feilding a S.A.W. ^_^ --Falconeye 04:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

---

Reply: Yes i did If you can read you will see the word "decrease" duration(it means less or minus or in terms of gaming a "nerf" where as a buff with have the word "increase") all they did was make other classes that bring ritualist utility skills less powerful key on "LESS" I.E. a nerf decreasing the playability of the game which as referenced above is bad. if your talking about PVE then you will realize that the pve buff are all essentially useless because there are far better things you can bring then a spirit spammer and beside the change to blade turn refrain IMBAgon will still remain the only playable paragon bar for good players, but lets not get off topic i was talking about PVP, PVE has already been totally ruined by way to many broken skills/builds that fixing it would be impossible, it takes 2 intelligent players + 6 heroes to defeat any mission/vanquish in HM in the entire game some can even be solo'd or done with 3 or less people so making useless skill more powerful is a redundant waste of time, I will demonstrate it mathematically useless= 0 0x1000=0 I am not attacking you personally but unless you farm bison tokens all day with spirits this update didnt have any buffs except to deceive less experienced players into thinking that these skills are good which Anet likes to do when the truth is that 60% of the skills in this game are completely useless when compared to other more potent ones the only skill Anet has properly buffed recently is whirling axe and aura of restoration which judging by LC and PS was a wild shot in the dark that they got that right. whats sad is that most of the people that buy GW2 will be GW 1 players so screwing people over seems like a bad idea...pretty much saying are MMO is years old so were not gonna support it anymore unless your a PVE player which are generally a gullible trusting people. my guess is that 2 or less people worked on this update you know a real staff dedication over what lets say 3 days I mean they have form's dedicated to skill changes people think should happen...pick one test it out you dont even really need to think just write code using other peoples ideas theres no reason why 5 skills can't be changed per month if for no other reason then to stop the game becoming stale...And just BTW as said above i am not displeased by the nerf's to any of the above skills except ones that reduce effectiveness of cross classing I AM displeased by them not even trying to buff a skill I mean even if it goes horribly wrong just revert it you have finally made PVE no longer mix with PVP so it should be buff heaven right now not nerf city Anet has yet to take advantage of this in a pvp aspect instead its buff PVE and nerf PVP --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:174.115.129.190 (talk).]

You idiot - decreasing a negative (i.e. casting time) is a buff. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.14.31.223 (talk).

You idiot - decreasing a negative (i.e. duration of weapon spells) is a nerf. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:174.115.77.110 (talk).

That's decreasing a positive not a negative. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:151.209.112.137 (talk).

You numbskull - doubling spawning power's effect on weapons spells that only got a 1-2 second cut is a buff. (i.e. lasts about 20% longer than it used to) is a buff. -Phill Gaston

---

And don't forget the Paragon buffs in PvE. People were asking for more spilts and I guess Anet listened. 145.94.74.23 09:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, well, this update is pretty decent. Nerfed some stupid shit. I don't know if they fixed them (can't really tell, there are only 2 matches obsable atm) but any small change helps. Dark Morphon 10:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Some thoughts after testing the skills:

(1) The nerfing of Cry, only impacts the lower end of the Cryway players. So if you are part of an established farming guild or circle, then you will not know the difference anyway. If you try to Pug, then you are screwed. It seems that any form of build normal Pugs can play without teamspeak gets annihilated on sight, as soon as it can complete certain areas in the game. That certainly sends a wrong message in the long run. This sort of patching empties outposts faster than a server crash. GW will appear to be dead to those who do not know how to get into the right circles. Having your titles ground to maximum is once more absolute prerequisite and a step back to darker times.

(2) RoJ is a bit better, but the only difference is again with Pugs. If you got a Permasin able to mob the monsters right, then you won't know the difference. Bring an Assassin's Promise Glyphsac MS Nuker, and anything will burn to a crisp during the first knockdown. But if you are a little less coordinated, then this update will hit you hard, which again is a bad thing as it leads to less grouping inside what is supposed to be a social game. When it comes to total AoE damage, this skill is still out of whack.

(3) We shall return calls for a patch inside the next 48h. It is a nice idea, but if you are not a GW expert, this skill will screw you over even in normal mode. Vanquishing aside, it is not a pleasant experience for first time players. This shout is too strong and requires too specific counters for regular play.

(4) For those not playing HM with a Permasin or Imbagon at all times, the Minion Master is the default backbone of their builds. The number one way to absorb the ridiculous amounts of damage monsters throw around in HM. So when the Heroes stop playing MM right, it also calls for a quick patch.

(5) Visions of regret makes no sense from a PvE perspective. Ok, thanks for the 5 extra damage, but who was stacking hexes on opponents in PvE anyway? It's VoR-> Cry -> Cry -> Cry -> Argentina. The real power of VoR in hardmode was to keep monsters from spamming their skillbars. From that perspective, less damage in exchange for more range would make even more sense.

The bottom line for the nerfed skills is: If you are an above average (far from amazing) player with an established farm team, then you might have to concentrate a tiny little more in DoA. If you are a regular player, then you have just been kindly asked to vacate the premises of what people are mostly interested in. That might sound ok on paper, but it is sending the wrong message to people. Sadly this type of nerfing has been done over and over and over and over again. We are at a point where most HM dungeons are avoided by groups and people rather buy runners, than to play them with Pugs. Because that way the experience is still pleasant.

Due to nerfing, the gap in efficiency between above average players and average Pugs has become a liability. Above average players will no longer tolerate below average players in their team because they are that sort of liability that gets you killed. Those people still having semi-open teams in DoA (and other places of high interest) all have lists with player names. If that list says you suck, then it's bye bye. Either that, or half your team will bail on you. Power-Cry did improve this situation for a while (as did other skills nerfed in the past), but the new Semi-Cry will make it worse again. That in turn chokes off the transfer of knowledge from the good players to the average players. It is exponentially harder to become a good player these days. Not just in PvP, but in PvE also. So as tough as that might be for the designers, people need a few ways to trample over stuff in order to learn to be better. If the thin red line people have to walk in order to succeed gets thinner each month, then it will be of no benefit to the customers. No matter how much "experts" flame on Pugs in the forum, Pugs are an important aspect of the social dimensions of GW. Meet new people and kill stuff together. It should not be the natural progression of the game to move into HM and stop using Pugs because Sabway is safer and 7 heroes would be best anyway. Too many people are isolating themselves inside their guilds already. Dungeon Runs and Z-Quests, are these really supposed to be the only ways to get to meet people in the future?--4thvariety 10:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nice post. Nerfing is definitely a problem in many online games, and the current developer culture tends to veer in this direction without direct, constant intervention to the contrary. We've seen it happen with many other online games, in that once a game starts down this negative path, with a focus on penalizing players for existing content instead of rewarding them with new or additional content, its only a matter of time before the game becomes undesirable to play and achieves irrelevance in the marketplace, along with the brand itself and all its successors. EQ, UO.. the list of failed games due to over-nerfing goes on and on... 'those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it'.. meaning the best game developers learn from their predecessors' mistakes and choose NOT to repeat them. Players never like to be told what they CANNOT do in a game, rather they like to be told what they CAN do.. its a huge shift in mentality that needs to happen if GW is to survive. Guild Wars' ever-increasing policy of stamping out anything and everything it doesn't like with the nerf hammer will eventually be its undoing, if the history of modern online games is any indication. Flipper 19:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

In order to make the game playable (and I mean, playable and fair - football where one goal is thrice the size of the other isn't "playable" without nerfing anything, you have to buff all of the counters. Guess what happens after two or three updates? Raine - talk 02:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

If I understand you correctly, then you simply create additional content in the game to counter the opposing force. Of course you must spend time actually THINKING about the best way to go about this before implementation.. an itchy finger on the nerf trigger is never the best answer to solve balancing issues. If the creation does not work as intended, then you either roll back your solution or create more additional content until you succeed. You should NEVER strip content from a game (reducing an ability or making it less powerful is considered stripping content). For instance, lets say a certain team build seems overpowered for a high level area i.e. DOA. So as a developer what would you then do to balance? Instead of bringing out your nerf hammer to solve the problem for you (which requires zero thought short of coffee and a donut), you CREATE additional content in that area to counter the opposing force. An instance where this was done perfectly in Guild Wars was in some of the high-level dungeons.. instead of nerfing players' skills, they decided to CREATE content to counter some run builds by spawning disenchantment spirts every now and then. Nicely done and that is the correct way to balance content. So clearly the dev team full well knows how to do this, and they could have implemented a similar solution to Cryway in DOA.. instead they chose the lazy route and decided to bring out the nerf hammer instead. Yes being creative requires some thought, and yes it requires a bit more effort to come up with a creative solution. And in the end its what separates a talented developer from a mediocre one. Flipper 15:12, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

It might also have something to do with the fact that you're required to play one of the ways you mentioned, or with the elitism of said players. Guild Wars isn't all about farming and certainly not everyone uses insertname-ways or even Minion Masters. There's nothing wrong with (having to) look into new oppertunities. I still teach beginners on a regular basis. Maybe more people should try that instead of referring them to PvXwiki for the most popular gimmick of the week. And at any rate, I must disagree with you linking insertnameways-groups being above average players: most of them are either poor players that can't beat things without gimmicks, or good players who's laziness will soon turn them into average players due to lack of training. 145.94.74.23 15:18, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hard mode is supposed to be hard.

There's a difference between pugs and bad pugs. Bad pugs are "glf more". Good pugs are what you see in HA ID1: "glf WoH monk and SH ele". The former can succeed in NM, because anyone can succeed in NM. However, in HM, they'll often get wiped repeatedly, even to the point of DPing out. That's not to say that good pugs don't ever wipe, but the odds of wiping with a good party - with a prepared party - are marginally lower.

Okay, so bad pugs can't win HM guildwars anymore. That's how it should've been from the beginning, imho. Raine - talk 17:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

But I don't think it should be insanely hard for parties with some professions and only moderately hard for parties with other professions. I don't think players should be punished for wanting to play the wrong profession, IMO making some professions significantly less useful than others is bad game design. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:20, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Some parties ask for common builds or common professions. But that doesn't mean that those are the best or the only solution to the HM problem. And with some players, once they've made up their mind about something, they won't ever use (or not use) a certain skill/profession/build/etc. again. But that doesn't mean that the party would have been less effective if they had been accepted. 145.94.74.23 07:37, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Every profession is useful in its niche - look at PvP. Each profession was designed that way, and I think it's a good design - teams bring different skills which are useful for different things in order to create a strong party, capable of handling various threats. However, the reason why things like mesmers aren't as useful in PvE is that the design of PvE doesn't call for complex interactions. Single-target shutdown isn't good in PvE, mesmers excel in single-target shutdown, and so mesmers aren't good at PvE. In PvE, AI says "attack whatever's closest", so only one person really needs to be able to take damage as frontline. Can an assassin do that (I mean, without SF)? No - assassins and dervishes are in less want for their squishy armor.

The professions aren't designed wrong, imo - it's the game type. Raine - talk 17:31, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Dervishes are squishy? I don't think so. -- Wyn 17:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

IMO, the main design of ritualists was bad for PvE. Assassins are slightly less bad (they cannot tank damage, but then again that has never been their role, so that's as much of a problem as it is for a necromancer to not be able to tank), and dervishes are very well designed for PvE.

I think the game would have worked far better if assassins, ritualists, dervishes and paragons had been PvE only from the beginning. Now it's too late for that, but this kind of update is the next best thing. It's important to keep each profession unique, though - if mesmers are weak because single target shut down is usually worthless in PvE, they should not become an AoE damage dealer profession as that already exists; rather, they should be capable of AoE shutdown. And so on. Erasculio 17:41, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

@Wyn: 70al with no shield is, in fact, squishy. A monk with a defensive (60+13 AL + 30 Health) set is just about as squishy a dervish (70+5 AL +25 Health). In fact, if you've got a specced shield (or good shield swaps for +10 al), the monk is actually a harder target.

The two classes I've played most are monk and Dervish. From the former perspective, I know that monking for a dervish isn't like monking for a warrior or paragon. They take tons more damage, and get linebacked a lot more often because of it. Where I wouldn't usually waste a Guardian or Stab on a warrior, I know that dervs have not much more than caster-level armor, and need to be protted like casters or they will die. From the latter perspective, I've had various experiences. The one that sums it up most succinctly, though, imo, is "It's like you're in Frenzy all the time." Though it's a tiny bit of an overstatement, 70 effective AL against 96-116 AL (Axe warrior AL, from the worst to best situations) roughly equates to double damage from armor-respecting sources. That's pretty significant.

Okay, dervishes can tank. So can everything else in the game with the right build. But as far as common usage, dervs are basically caster-armor frontline. Raine - talk 05:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know about the every profession is well designed thing.Well atleast not at the moment.I'd like to say that skills/builds see play because a) they have a rly good niche and/or b) they are OP.Now when dervishes,assassins or paragons see use its often the 2nd thing.Not always but very often.Lilondra *panda* 05:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Dervs are strong in builds with high-frequency spikes. Sins are strong in builds with bad warriors. Paras are strong in builds with Guild Wars. Raine - talk 05:29, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

That may be true but warriors can spike pretty decent aswell (ifnot better).The frequency might be lower but they are more versatile.Dervs are often run by less experience players because of Wounding Strike and Reaper's sweep (those skills are imba and they are one of the main reasons people run dervs).Sins are strong in gank builds actually or just anyone that needs buttonbashbuilds to get kills and paras are mainly meta because anet tried to adress passive defense and healing without adressing the need for it.Lilondra *panda* 05:59, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't know Raine. From my experience of MMORPGS (and RPGs), there are usually the professions that: 1)tank shit so that others can kill it without dying 2)kill shit before shit touches you 3)go near shit and destroy it. Case 1 in our game is Warrior, although they are also case 3, as tanking is only viable in very late parts of the game, and as said, given the right build, every profession can tank. Case 2 is of course casters, Rangers and Paragons (although Paragons can be case 1 due to high armor). Case 3 are Assassins and Dervishes. Assassins in particular, as they are more squishy than Dervishes, but they make up for it by being able to do really big raw damage. And Dervishes, well, they pretty much make you explode when they touch you. So, I can only half agree with you Raine. Dervishes can be squishy, but they make up for it by hacking people to tiny pieces. Titani Ertan 06:07, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I actually wouldnt say assassins are more squishy.The builds that are currently played are but by design they are not.Assassins have some powerfull defensive skills in shadowarts but because people only run them with instagib chains those often don't see use.Dervishes are more squishy and they don't hack you to pieces because you happen to run prot and blind and stuff if your only half decent.Dervishes rely on pure raw power.Something wich only sees play when it is lifted to a broken level.By Design I would say that dervishes are not viable and paragons are broken Lilondra *panda* 10:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

By design, Rangers are pressure. By design, Warriors are the only damage dealers. By design, Elementalists are spike assist. By design, Mesmers are anti-caster. By design, Ritualists are spirit masters. By design, Assassins onlu use Lead-Off-Dual. You see, many things have changed. By design, this game is circles around anti-melee. But hey, look what's up now? Titani Ertan 10:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Dervishes were, indeed, designed as close-range AoE (in-game description: a whirlwind of destruction ) damage dealers, rather than anything else (such as pressure or spike assist). However, they ARE more vulnerable than warriors with less armor and less reliable self-healing skills (enchantments and spells are more easy to disrupt than skills, shouts and stances, but ofc there are certain exceptions. Mediggo 11:08, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

We are talking about the design right ? Also a lot of things changed because izzy wanted a fast paced game.The result was a ridiculous increase in damage and a enourmous need for micrommanagement.Resulting in a decline in special tactics in gvg for example.Also Thats not true what you say by assassins.They can start with a offhand.The problem is that people waste 50 % and more on attack skills while a assassin should have 2-3 max.Anti melee still is very very important and the fact that there are huge flaws in the current balance doesnt mean the design is thrown out of the window.Assassins still are less squishy then dervishes if you don't use them as a buttonbash palmstrike Lilondra *panda* 14:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't just Izzy, many players wanted faster games - they especially wanted a nerf for 'blockway'. It was the gimmick of it's day. 145.94.74.23 06:57, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

June 18th update

It is listed on the page about Hero AI and NPC's scattering from RoJ in HM, however I was in NM last night in two different places and they scattered from it. I had previously used RoJ there and they did not scatter. It didn't just affect HM it was NM as well. -- unsigned --

AoE has caused scatter in NM since the 2007 update that added it, but it doesn't happen as quickly as HM. It depends on damage and it is much more apparent in long duration spells like Firestorm or Sandstorm. --Falseprophet 17:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, right, but Ray of Judgment didn't cause scatter before, the update supposedly fixed that for Heroes and HM, but the unsigned commenter above is claiming that it also updated NM. Freedom Bound 18:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I haven't noticed NPCs in HM scattering yet. I was doing D'Alessio Seaboard HM last night, and as far as I could tell, the undead still sat and burned. -- Hong 04:58, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

I could confirm that they scatter in NM. I was doing some missions, and Ogden's RoJ made them fly away after the second or third pulse. Titani Ertan 05:55, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

In NM the likelihood of scatter is lower, but happens. Usually with professions that move more around, like warriors. I've seen HM ranged spiders that won't move at all being in the middle of a Sabannah Heat. MithTalk 14:15, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Fort Aspenwood seems to be bugged after this update (is there ever a time where FA is not bugged..) The Kurzick NPC rits cast their PVP spirits at PVE speed.. they whip 3 or 4 of those babies out before you know what hit you. Makes for easier Kurzick victories atm.. Flipper 21:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Attention farmers

To all the guys that are angry because of the nerfs.Look at it this way.Imbalanced skills are like big macs,The more you eat the worse you get.Also to Anet Imba skills are like big macs just because people are begging for them doesn't mean you should give it to them.Lilondra *panda* 05:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Although that I agree how bad Machintosh are, I can't imagine why should anyone eat one or ask for one. O_o? MithTalk 14:12, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

.. lol? Lil' meant The McDonalds 'Big Mac', not Macintosh xD ... I also happen to agree with the original statement, playing the same thing over and over again means you'll eventually only be good at that. Look at what happens if you only do stomach crunches to stay fit... yup... obese toes.. not sexy at all. --Alex Eternal 14:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Ah! Now I get it... but I still can't imagine why would anyone want to eat a tiny little hamburger like those. They are nothing like the ads. MithTalk 14:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm comparing gw players to kids.They want to go to mac donalds but you shouldnt let them because if you do they'll grow fat and slow.There is scientific proof that kids that eat at macdonalds will have the liver of a 40 year old at the age of 10!

Now a lot of gw players like imba skills but anet shouldn't give them imba skills because the players will end up as buttonbashing retarded scrub.Lilondra *panda* 15:27, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually the game is rated something like 12+ in most countries, so you don't need to compare them to kids: a lot of GW players actually are kids. Xelonir 17:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Well in this case, I am old. Well older. Not nearly as adept at games as I was in my Galaxian-Mr.Do days. Mainly because I have to be responsible and do my 40 hours per week and do outdoor stuff with my kids. Deteriorating reflexes aside, I haven't got the time to develop PVP level skills. You young masters are able to kick Rragnar's ass nine ways to sunday But I need cons. I could afford cons after an hour of "kegging" or a couple of DTSC's. I need those gimicky builds to survive, Like I'll need a pacemaker in another 30 years (40 for those who are wondering) I see alot of you begging for SF and 600/smites to be nerfed. Please don't. I admit it I am not a highly skilled player. And Budger was one of my best friends but when I stop to talk to him now he's all depressed. I am not alone. I belong to an age 30+ alliance with more than 1000 members, the oldest being 73. My Idea is this lets have ID check put at the entrance to the vaetir fields and the raptor pit. Or we could just leave these popular farming areas intact and the amazing players could stay in the farming areas that keep your playing skillz crisp. Keep putting effort into making dungeons, missions and quests unfarmable. My enjoyment of the game is based on progressing and without these "broken" farming areas and builds I simply can't. Big Mac's and Kegging are great on special occasions :) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:74.13.52.2 (talk).

Pls continue this discussion on my talkpage but I'd like to note that I don't think farming should be nerfed at all.I just find the whole "OP skills to combat OP skills" ridiculous because it throws "skill above skills" out of the window.I know casual players "need" these gimmicks but tbh I don't rly believe you do.Gimmicks make you worse as a player if played constantly.TBH Most topguilds have ran a gimmick atleast once just for fun but they did it ONCE every X matches.I'd also like to note that the idea is that you shouldnt need these skills.Some monsters just are to powerfull.Now about the pvp thing.I'd like to say to you that you don't need gimmicks to win.Its just unfair that worse people lose to good people because they run a broken as fuck meta build.If you want I can actually give you some builds that will not give you a billion glad points a day but will cause you to get alot better.TBH I hope you've already played trough proph with a crazy build.Like in nothing special but rly fun to run crazy.I find that to be actually more fun then eotn as a whole.Lilondra *panda* 05:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Its just unfair that worse people lose to good people because they run a broken as fuck meta build I think you meant that the other way round. Still, I'd run any build I like, if it weren't for rank discrimination. In PvE, I rarely run PvE-only skills, I only use DP removers as consumables, no PvX heroways and I never use title bonusses so I kinda understand what you mean. And I must say, you're forgot to mention something: playing in such a way is much more fun. 145.94.74.23 06:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Yh I just finished my examinations so I post rly early or in the evening and in both cases I'm tired so I fail to express myself in a decent way lol.People should be able to run what they like.But They shouldn't be able to run skills that grant them unfair advantages.Lilondra *panda* 17:33, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

"In PvE, I repeatedly shoot myself in the foot because I think that makes me oldschool/hardcore. And I must say, you're forgot to mention something: playing in such a way is much more fun as long as you're not repeatedly wiping because you can't cope in HM. 145.94.74.23 06:55, 24 June 2009 (UTC)" -- Mafaraxas 18:04, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Lol mafarax exept I'm not running bad builds I'm running good builds but inferior to the meta.I can still crush people and yes my builds are more fun and require more skill.I'd also say that I CAN cope with HM Lilondra *panda* 18:17, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Look at the indents. I was talking to anon, not you. -- Mafaraxas 18:30, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Of course, everyone who looks for challenge in a game must be incredibly stupid. How awkward of me to think otherwise X( Koda Kumi talk 21:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

@Mafaraxas: You're a funny guy. I had no trouble in HM at all (vanquished nearly everything, including elite missions as well as LG and LMotN). Even with my self-imposed restrictions. Sorry that I made you jealous. 145.94.74.23 07:09, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

God if you rly have to be an idiot atleast have the decency to register so we have a somebody to yell at ><' Lilondra *poke* 19:35, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Nope, people that look for challenges in games are just bored. But that's usually the same reason for playing the game at all, so it's OK. MithTalk 22:08, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Wait....

Wait....were all the paragon skills they buffed in the Command and Leadership lines? If so, LOLmotivationstillsucks. Karate Jesus 22:24, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I hope you're only talking about PvE. Motivation is the kind of line that makes you want to bash your head against a showerhead until the hurt goes away in PvP. --Jette 22:36, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Buffing Motivation for PvE would be a big mistake. Because, as mentioned above, it will cause a "OP skills vs OP skills" situation. In other words people will run Motivation Paragons in PvE simply because it is even more broken than broken. -- BlackHoleSun 23:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

"Why can't I hurt anything?! FUCKING MOTIVAAAAAAATIIIIIIIIIOOOOONNNNN!!!" Have you ever fought a paraway? :[ Raine - talk 23:50, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I fought a paragay build while running SF spike once (no jokes please). SF did 13 damage per cast. Funny thing is, we killed some of them. This goes to show how terrible most pvpers are. ~Shard 00:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

ಠ_ಠ --Jette 00:46, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

most of everything anywhere is terrible. stop saying "controversial" things to make yourself sound smart, shard. really. especially with that lolarbcomm. -- Mafaraxas 05:27, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

While I agree with Sturgeon's Law, I don't think he's saying controversial things to make himself sound smart -- doing that would require saying controversial things. --Jette 13:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

PvEers want moar Imba & PvPers keep getting dildo-to-booty. *Update - Monday, June 22, 2009 Blah blah blah Made PvE even moar stupid-easy Blah blah Screw PvP Blah blah blah Working on GWars2 Blah blah blah Blah Wanna purchase makeovers Blah? --Ulterion 02:44, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

In that situation, you healball (were you running healball SF, or LOLFIREMAGICSPAM SF?) and apply partywide pressure instead of trying to spike. 7 degen on everyone makes healers cry. Raine - talk 18:00, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

katamari healball.jpg --Jette 18:03, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

7 degen it's only 14 health loss per second. Not that much. MithTalk 23:54, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

That's because paragons are gay. Still, 14 * 8 = 112 DPS, which is something. Not enough to counter a paragay team, mind you, but something. What you really need when you're fighting build wars teams is skills that nobody ever uses. Most people are so bad that a Well of Silence will kill a paragon team instantly because statistics have shown that a good 23% of players do not know that wells only affect you while you're in them. I can picture this vent conversation happening: "dude wtf i cant use my shouts" "me either WTF" "omg imba hax" "theyre totally haxing d000000000d wtf man w t f" --Jette 00:02, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, fuck. Someone was running Sympathetic Visage, and I hit them...

"...wtf"

"What happened?"

"All my adren just dropped."

"How? Are you blind or something?"

"Of course I'm not fucking blind!"

"So what happened?"

"idfk!"

Skills that no one uses need to be removed from the game so shit like that doesn't happen. That's why I don't PvE - I get Soothing Images or something on me and I don't know what's happening. :( Raine - talk 02:18, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

... You know, THAT might be why ANet was considering changing the way Well spells work! The only anti-shout/chant skills right now are Vocal Minority, Ulcerous Lungs, Cacophony and Well of Silence. With the exception of WoS, all of the others are hexes with long recharge times and are quickly removed if thrown into play. But if Well spells could be cast anywhere, anytime, requiring a health sacrifice if no corpses are around, it could dramatically hinder PvP teams relying on shouts/chants by covering portions of the battlefield with silenced areas, forcing a team to give up ground to move the Paragons into a place where they can use their shouts.

It might not be an absolute solution, but it IS a very interesting idea... - Zaxares 05:30, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

If they make Ward of Profane, they need to make its life sac 300% (when you use it, 3 people on your team die). <--this is not a joke. ~Shard 05:33, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

lol I guess shard is trying to say that WoP would be LOLOP Lilondra *panda* 06:37, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, it would be fun if they added that change in wells that make them not require corpses: No corpse, sacrifice health. One corpse, exploit instead of sacrifice. Then you could cast them without having to kill someone first. That would be funny, yeah. The only problem would be targets. Target self? Target an enemy? Target self would require to get close, and that's undesirable for caster professions in most cases. And target an enemy would be a bit too easy for wells, with the huge AoE they have MithTalk 12:31, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Remember Mark of Insecurity? Okay, now remember all the reasons Mark of Insecurity was is bad? Well, targeted Well of the Profane would be worse. A WotP in the right spot is a game-winner as it is. --Jette 12:57, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Unless ofc you're fighting a paragay team. Titani Ertan 16:23, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree that skills like Well of the Profane would need to be drastically reworked to ensure balance. It already has some hefty drawbacks, including a 25 energy cost and a 3 sec casting time, making it interrupt bait. Perhaps if we change the effect to be:

"Well Spell. Create a Well of the Profane at your location or the location of the nearest corpse. For 8...18...20 seconds, foes in that area cannot be the target of further enchantments. If you created this well from a corpse, foes in the area are also stripped of all enchantments (50% failure chance with Death Magic 4 or less.)"

So if the Necro just ran in and cast the Well, as opposed to using a corpse, it still doesn't get rid of any existing enchantments on targets, allowing them a chance to retreat to a safe area. - Zaxares 01:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Fortunately for the rest of the gaming community, no one involved in this conversation, including myself, is a member of the balance team, because no single person here has more than half a clue about why or how skill balancing works. This specifically includes Shard. ··· Danny Pew Pew 22:19, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Is that a challenge? Titani Ertan 08:06, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Lol, anybody who has played any part of the game where there are balance issues clearly knows that's not true. Try obsing a little more, then you may understand why Shard (for example) says the things he does about balance. Or you can try actually HAing or GvGing. King Neoterikos 08:10, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Danny seems to think he knows who I am. Perhaps, Danny, you could share with the rest of us. What games have I worked on? What games have I balanced? What games have I played at a very high level of competition? Please, let everyone know, since you obviously know everything about me. ~Shard 00:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Danny is an above-average but still poor troll, or else sublimely pretentious. My suggested course of action would be breaching NPA repeatedly. --Jette 01:26, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Very well Shard, please tell us which games you have balanced that have more than a million copies sold. 145.94.74.23 07:02, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

IP FAIL... IoW: Danny claimed to have experience with Shard's balance methodology.
Shard challenged him to prove it. Shard answering it before Danny does would invalidate the challenge.
...as for actually needing millions of copies sold: Linsey had no prior experience as a skill balancer but is already off to a hell of a start considering how well her first real attempt was received... If anything, being in the same position too long actually makes you WORSE at balancing stuff in a fun way b/c you end up falling into this Antagonistic relationship with your "Core" player base instead of a symbiotic one. --ilr 23:54, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

3 months

Am I the only one who remembers the promised "every 3 months, we'll do a big content update" from anet? Pretty sure Dragon Fest doesn't count anet...68.33.177.52 23:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

It's every 3 to 4 months, and it hasn't even been 3 months since the last one yet. I wouldn't expect a new one until August. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 23:14, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Yup we still got another 2 months-ish to go before they are late. Although i was hoping for some news of the coming features by now, but I'm sure they're very busy with things. -- Salome 23:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I haven't seen a HUGE skill update in a while, not just nerfs/buffs, but like 50 changed skills <3 ---Chaos- 22:35, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

yh We Rly want another One (*facepalm*). Lilondra *panda* 15:00, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Wait I wasnt able to sum up half of the broken things they introduced then I'll give you a complete view on how bad it was Lilondra *panda* 15:02, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Game too dead to balance now. Frosty 15:04, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Most of the jews were dead by the end of WOII doesn't justify bombing some more.Ok perhaps a bad comparison but tbh I think most (pvp/not incredibly retarded) people would actually prefer gw if they just reverted all balance changes done till prenightfall (also deleting all those skills) Lilondra *panda* 15:10, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

yay godwin -- Mafaraxas 23:37, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I believe what they said was they were going for a large content update every 3-4 months, which means the next one would be due in August. I don't believe "content update" includes any large skill updates, and I would expect skill updates to be more like the last one, now that Linsey has for the most part taken over balancing. -- Wyn talk 00:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Not just that Lil, I'd like to revert everything back to the way it was when Prophecies first released and just focus on properly balancing that content. Aevar talk contribs 15:24, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Oh, ok. Say goodbye then to...

• Unlocking skills with Balthazar faction: when Prophecies was released, faction of Balthazar didn't exist. PvP players had to play through PvE in order to unlock skills.
• Capturing elite skills after the bosses are dead. You had to use the Signet of Capture after the boss had used the skill you wanted to capture and before it used anything else, or you would get the non elite skill (and this didn't have a confirmation dialog, you would just waste your signet). Good luck capturing elite stances.
• The skill activation monitor. All you would know would be if a target had finished using a skill or not.
• The removal of refund points. You had to use refund points in order to change your attributes. Which meant, of course, that...
• The skill template system. You could not save your skill bars and load it later (not only because that feature didn't exist, but also because you would very quickly find yourself without refund points).

And so on. Balance-wise the game may be a lot worse now, but functionality-wise it is far better, despite everything. Erasculio 18:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

"...properly balancing that content." Thanks for picking my nits; I also meant fixing bugs and streamlining the game, much like Valve has done with Team Fortress 2, though some people will bitch about how Valve has handled that one lately. Aevar talk contribs 14:29, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Also if that came off as flame-ish don't mind me Erasculio, didn't mean it that way. Aevar talk contribs 19:10, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

I would expect that the Developers have completely given up on and let go of GW1. It's now a matter of time until the release of GW2 so that Anet can effectively "b00t-t0-@$$" all GW1 players and tell them to go buy GW2 for more continued play. =P --Ulterion 23:16, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't assume it's only a matter of time when it could be a matter of years --ilr 23:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Well the last large content update was the 23rd April. Thus using their 3-4 month window we can see expect to see something between late July to late August. However as part of anet's drive to greater transparency in regards to updates, I am hoping we will hear something before then about what to expect. However even if we don't hear, I don't mind, as I have the utmost faith in the live team. :) -- Salome 23:46, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Bad idea... Releasing that "Teaser" NFO before the actual Suggestion Namespace is finalized would just invite a massive flood of feedback and speculation that would also have to be tagged, bagged, and eventually deleted (LoL, Strikethrough preventing reading) since it would ALL be posted under the old license... --ilr 23:59, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

You know it's time to take a break when all you're doing is staring at a couple of skills that see overuse in 8v8 and /rage about them on every talk page. 68.193.113.198

Ip's should stop making retarded comments Lilondra *poke* 19:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, they can set schedules for their updates but I think after 4 years of observing this process, it's safe to say that the schedule is "...what schedule?". The only consistent thing seems to be the precious tonics and 8v8 maps. And Nick, but he kicked Anet to the curb and learned how to take care of himself. Also, I'd rather have 0 transparency and come home one day to find all of the updates in one nice surprise package. After a month of waiting, the awesome stuff loses its novelty and the cash shop schemes start to outweigh the excitement, at least for me. I'm just barely looking forward to the next major update, thanks to the great possibility of their being wonderful new features only available through the cash shop. Feels like shit! 68.193.113.198

personnally... I don't get all worked up over a game... if a change happens then I'm usually plesently surprised... MrPaladin talk 19:45, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

To get back on topic, does anyone actually expect there to be a large content update in August? I know I don't (lol@pvplove). Karate Jesus 18:23, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't hope for it and I don't expect it Lilondra *poke* 18:24, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

I hope for the best... but I prepare for the worst MrPaladin talk 18:25, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Death to every 'run' with "Speed" on its name and any new area (even if it's just something like recycling the Ahmtur Arena for use in any PvP mode) would do for me... let the rest be surprises. MithTalk 22:12, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I'm just waiting to see what Arenanet puts in that they assign a cost to. 'You want new PvP content, that's $8.99' maybe? ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:22, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Then people would refuse to afk Lilondra *poke* 05:54, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

It should cost $10.00 for a monk primary to play EOTN with less than 7 people in their party. 68.193.113.198

..and anyone that used SF during a UW run should have to pay 5 ectos to open the Underworld Chest!

Little off topic but thats my main bug... things like "underworld" and "run" should not be strung together so easily... MrPaladin talk 19:59, 20 July 2009 (UTC)