Talk:Razah
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Origin / Human Template[edit]
I was looking over the details on how to get him, when I thought about something. We already have some strong connections to Factions in the whole Torment / Domain of Anguish section of The Mists. And it seems that any soul that gets affected by Abaddon or his minions winds up in there somewhere. What about Togo? He was personally killed by Shiro Tagachi. If that isn't a strong connection to Abaddon, I don't know what is. Then we have Razah, a creature of The Mists that needed a 'suitable human template'.
Togo's image from his profile pic, Razah's from his armor gallery, default armor. The center is a 50% opacity overlay of Razah over Togo. Outside of color changes, I flickered the layer off and on and could see no real change to the visible face. While it is a possibility that Razah IS Togo, I find it far more likely that he was just the template Razah used to take form. Any other ideas/input? Guildwarsrunner 05:26, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
- Togo's soul is actually in Tahnakai Temple, you can meet him there after you complete the 'Factions' storyline. On a side note, how long were you wandering around GWWiki to find that distant correlation? (O.o) Seems it would have taken a huge amount of time to find a connection like that... 68.144.77.185 05:44, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
- The most probable 'template' for Razah was Abaddon's original human body. It's clear from the plot that all human gods where human themselves once. And since Abaddon got most of his body destroyed when imprisoned, it wouldn't be strange for him to want another body to walk around humans like he did before. Mith
Talk 14:12, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- "It's clear from the plot that all human gods where human themselves once." No it's not? Last time I checked humans don't have wings. And if it is, and I'm just missing something, please tell me where it's made "clear" that all of the human gods were once human - keep in mind that it was said that the gods predate humanity ("but not by much") - though that's even unclear if it meant humanity's existence or humanity on Tyria. Point being: nothing says that all gods were once human - Kormir certainly was; the rest go from "probably" to "could have been" with Dwayna and Melandru being, imo, least likely.
- And your theory of Razah being intended for Abaddon to use seems strange, since he has a new body when we face him (or so we're led to believe that's a new body being formed). Konig/talk 14:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- Appearance is not enough in this case. Most depictions of Melandru show those 'wings' as clothing or plant-like growths. Dwayna does seem to have wings in most depictions, but that still doesn't mean much. Murals and Statues are just artistic depictions, the Avatars are not themselves, and the Avatar forms and costumes are not reliable either. Gods have more of a 'theme' than a definite form. Having wings doesn't matter anyways, because getting powers of a divine domain changes you as seen with Kormir. When you get imbued with the power of air, you may grow wings. When you get imbued with the power of nature, you may get plant-like growths. When you get imbued with the power of knowledge, you may become golden, when you get imbued with the power of death, you get skeletal features, like a skull in your head, and so on. The personality of the one transformed has probably effects in the transformation too, and the transformation may go on indefinitely as the line between the individual and the powers and domains becomes blurry. As for Abaddon, no one ever said that he got a new body. All that we know is that he was defeated in a battle that had explosive effects, that we can see by the crater (and several other parts of the world and the mists) parts of himself and the effects of his power, and that he was imprisoned in a weakened state. That hints towards that being what's let of his body, distorted by his own power, not a new one. One must notice that gods are not exactly flesh, and so their bodies are not just a physical form, and that their own power affects their physical manifestations and even the environment as when not controlled or sealed properly. Abaddon was clearly mingling with his real and reality itself. The most important clue towards what Razah was, is the things said about him and that's he is found in "the very heart of the realm of torment". Even if he was not created from Abaddon's template, he being bound to that place by Abaddon's minons can only mean something related to Abaddon, most probably something that would benefit Abaddon. I'm partial towards Abaddon using him as a new body, knowing that what's left of his own won't last long. Evil gods are always finding ways to get new bodies to posses. MithTalk 16:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
- Appearance is not enough in this case. Most depictions of Melandru show those 'wings' as clothing or plant-like growths. Dwayna does seem to have wings in most depictions, but that still doesn't mean much. Murals and Statues are just artistic depictions, the Avatars are not themselves, and the Avatar forms and costumes are not reliable either. Gods have more of a 'theme' than a definite form. Having wings doesn't matter anyways, because getting powers of a divine domain changes you as seen with Kormir. When you get imbued with the power of air, you may grow wings. When you get imbued with the power of nature, you may get plant-like growths. When you get imbued with the power of knowledge, you may become golden, when you get imbued with the power of death, you get skeletal features, like a skull in your head, and so on. The personality of the one transformed has probably effects in the transformation too, and the transformation may go on indefinitely as the line between the individual and the powers and domains becomes blurry. As for Abaddon, no one ever said that he got a new body. All that we know is that he was defeated in a battle that had explosive effects, that we can see by the crater (and several other parts of the world and the mists) parts of himself and the effects of his power, and that he was imprisoned in a weakened state. That hints towards that being what's let of his body, distorted by his own power, not a new one. One must notice that gods are not exactly flesh, and so their bodies are not just a physical form, and that their own power affects their physical manifestations and even the environment as when not controlled or sealed properly. Abaddon was clearly mingling with his real and reality itself. The most important clue towards what Razah was, is the things said about him and that's he is found in "the very heart of the realm of torment". Even if he was not created from Abaddon's template, he being bound to that place by Abaddon's minons can only mean something related to Abaddon, most probably something that would benefit Abaddon. I'm partial towards Abaddon using him as a new body, knowing that what's left of his own won't last long. Evil gods are always finding ways to get new bodies to posses. Mith
- The most probable 'template' for Razah was Abaddon's original human body. It's clear from the plot that all human gods where human themselves once. And since Abaddon got most of his body destroyed when imprisoned, it wouldn't be strange for him to want another body to walk around humans like he did before. Mith
(Reset indent) 1) Statues of their actual forms exist, thus humans know what they actually look like. 2) Gods glow, and I fail to see how becoming golden is linked to knowledge (also, other than glowing, Kormir does not change). source on points 1 and 2.
3) Nothing in game states Abaddon growing a new body, but gw.dat does. Yes I know it's not confirmed. GWO is being a pain with its search functions so I couldn't find the thread which had the descriptions. Ignoring this, we see Abaddon's glove and mask in Ruins of Morah - while the mask can be explained, I doubt a glove of that design would fall of mid-battle unless an arm's missing (and he has two).
4) "One must notice that gods are not exactly flesh, and so their bodies are not just a physical form, and that their own power affects their physical manifestations" Source? We never see anything to indicate this (other than Abaddon being a disembodied head and hands).
5) In all of this you failed to show how it's "clear" that every god were once humans like you claimed, how Abaddon's body was failing, or that the template could not be any of the hundreds of human souls trapped in the Realm of Torment (let alone elsewhere in the Mists - nothing indicates that the original template has to be nearby, just in contact with the Mists). While I agree that Razah was kept there for some purpose related to Abaddon, I see absolutely nothing to indicate it was for possessing. Konig/talk 16:55, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
Death Penalty immunity?[edit]
My party got wiped during a VQ today, and unless a 19% morale boost suddenly became possible, Razah does not seem to suffer from DP. He still had 4% morale boost right after the wipe... Anyone else noticed this? It was noted on neither page nor talk page.
- Did he have Death Pact Signet? Dying as a result of the target of your DPS being killed doesn't cause DP. -- Hong 18:50, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
- Might be the cause, I don't really remember, he does have it equipped, so I guess you're right :)--Spirit of the Bear 19:11, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
- there was a bug a few years ago that sometimes one or two heroes got a fixed ammount of dp. dunno if it got fixed meanwhile. --
Mystic Gohan 17:45, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- there was a bug a few years ago that sometimes one or two heroes got a fixed ammount of dp. dunno if it got fixed meanwhile. --
- Might be the cause, I don't really remember, he does have it equipped, so I guess you're right :)--Spirit of the Bear 19:11, 11 February 2012 (UTC)
Changing Prof Question[edit]
If I change his primary profession whitout removing the weapons and runes will I loose them forever or get them back once I switch his profession back? --Mage
Montu 17:21, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
- I believe it's the same as mercenary heroes - you get them back once you change professions back. Konig/talk 17:45, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
- From the "Profession change" section: "When changing its prof, any profession-specific armor upgrades will be deleted from its armor. Weapons, off-hands and common armor upgrades will not be deleted. Razah will warn you it must cast aside the equipment of its old path." --Silver Edge 19:55, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
- That doesn't always happen. Testing demonstrates that the weapons are almost always kept, and 'common' runes and insignia that are not specific to any profession are kept too. But remove any upgrades and weapons just to be sure. It only costs a few salvage kit uses. MithTalk 00:37, 16 February 2012 (UTC)
- That doesn't always happen. Testing demonstrates that the weapons are almost always kept, and 'common' runes and insignia that are not specific to any profession are kept too. But remove any upgrades and weapons just to be sure. It only costs a few salvage kit uses. Mith
- From the "Profession change" section: "When changing its prof, any profession-specific armor upgrades will be deleted from its armor. Weapons, off-hands and common armor upgrades will not be deleted. Razah will warn you it must cast aside the equipment of its old path." --Silver Edge 19:55, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Changing Prof Question 2[edit]
Okay, so the article is like go to the Isle of the Nameless and change his profession! So I'm at the Isle of the Nameless and I'm concentrating real hard, but I can't change his profession. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 14.200.25.94 (talk) at 12:39, 5 August 2012 (UTC).
HOW EMBARASSING --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 14.200.25.94 (talk) at 11:44, 21 August 2012 (UTC).
Hero default skills[edit]
I'm not seeing any hero default skills on Razah's skill bar when I change its primary profession for the first time. After changing its primary profession, Razah's skill bar is always empty, all 200 of its attribute points is unused, and no new weapon is received. So where does the hero default skills, attribute ranks, and weapon information come from? I changed its profession in Isle of the Nameless. --Silver Edge 09:49, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- first time after hero aquisition? I think it was get hero unlocked, go to IoTN before adding to party.. -Chieftain Alex 18:27, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- Maybe, since I added Razah to my party immediately after acquiring it in the quest to verify its Ritualist attributes and then kicked it out of the party before going into Isle of the Nameless to change its profession. I can test what you said and determine if there are any default skills, attribute ranks, and weapons for Paragon or Dervish when I get around to completing Nightfall on my Mesmer. As for weapons, if it does acquire another default weapon, will it replace the Spawning Staff if it was equipped at the time of the profession change or is the second default weapon placed in your inventory? --Silver Edge 21:02, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- weapon for non-rit primary would replace the primary weapon I imagine... -Chieftain Alex 21:46, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- barrel hammer seems odd given the sword-based skillbar. -Chieftain Alex 21:47, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, it's odd. The Warrior skill bar and Barrel Hammer were both added to the page in the same edit though. --Silver Edge 21:55, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- Also, the Warrior default attribute ranks supposedly doesn't have any rank in Strength, even though the skill bar supposedly has Power Attack on it and all the other currently listed professions have ranks in their primary attribute. The Warrior also doesn't follow the default attribute rank pattern of the other professions that have skills in three different attributes, i.e. three default attribute ranks set to 12, 11, and 6. --Silver Edge 05:03, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
- Yes, it's odd. The Warrior skill bar and Barrel Hammer were both added to the page in the same edit though. --Silver Edge 21:55, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- barrel hammer seems odd given the sword-based skillbar. -Chieftain Alex 21:47, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- weapon for non-rit primary would replace the primary weapon I imagine... -Chieftain Alex 21:46, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
- Maybe, since I added Razah to my party immediately after acquiring it in the quest to verify its Ritualist attributes and then kicked it out of the party before going into Isle of the Nameless to change its profession. I can test what you said and determine if there are any default skills, attribute ranks, and weapons for Paragon or Dervish when I get around to completing Nightfall on my Mesmer. As for weapons, if it does acquire another default weapon, will it replace the Spawning Staff if it was equipped at the time of the profession change or is the second default weapon placed in your inventory? --Silver Edge 21:02, 27 November 2014 (UTC)
(Reset indent) I think this can be tested by using a PvP-only character on an account that has unlocked Razah.
Delete and recreate a PvP-only character if that PvP-only character has already added Razah to their party before.- Do not add Razah to your party and have the PvP-only character talk to Razah in the Isle of the Nameless to change its profession.
- Map travel or go back through the portal to Great Temple of Balthazar.
- Add Razah to your party for the first time on this PvP-only character to see if it has default skills, attribute ranks, and new weapon for the profession you chose.
If this works, this can be done to determine and verify default skills, attribute ranks, and weapons for all professions (including Paragon and Dervish, which are currently missing information) by rerolling a PvP-only character. I would test to see if this works, but I don't have a PvP-only character, don't have an empty character slot, and all of my character slots have level 20 PvE characters, so I don't want to delete one of my level 20 PvE characters to create a PvP-only character. --Silver Edge 05:03, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
- I thought that heroes used to be shared between PvP characters, at least the equipment did? (flakey source) (e.g. I put junk shield 1 on Koss of PvP "char #1", delete the PvP "char 1", create PvP "char 2"... pvp char2's koss has the same weapon originally placed on char1's hero. Creating another pvp char ("char 3") + removing the weapon would mean that char2's koss would no longer have the weapon..
- thus your suggested sequence might, unless you've never had a pvp char before, not work. -Chieftain Alex 07:53, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
- I can test if equipment is shared between heroes of PvP-only characters, since I have a Factions-only account with PvP-only characters. I just need to get 7,777 Balthazar faction to unlock Keiran Thackeray on that account. --Silver Edge 08:50, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
- Tested. Yes, heroes with their weapons, insignias, runes, and skill bar are shared between PvP characters as you described. So the Razah test that I mentioned above can only be performed once per account for PvP-only characters. --Silver Edge 10:13, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
- I can test if equipment is shared between heroes of PvP-only characters, since I have a Factions-only account with PvP-only characters. I just need to get 7,777 Balthazar faction to unlock Keiran Thackeray on that account. --Silver Edge 08:50, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
Here's a fresh Razah, with the profession switched to warrior before adding him to the party: https://i.imgur.com/X55aE9b.jpg FYI, I cropped out the rest of my screen and erased the character name in GIMP and exported it into a 100% quality jpg. I'm not sure how to update the main article with this information, simply remove the verification requested tags where applicable? 84.236.122.127 09:34, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
- Yup, that's about it. Correcting any incorrect/missing information and then removing tags if everything is written up is the way forward. - Infinite - talk 10:55, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
- It appears that the default bars, if you switch profession before use on a new character, are just copies of the hero skills for Koss / Dunkoro etc.
- Similarly the weapons look like they are taken from the other starter hero equipment (just in the case of warrior, Razah ends up with Koss's build and Goren's hammer). -Chieftain Alex 12:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Unlocking skills[edit]
Does anyone know how Razah's profession changing mechanic interacts with unlocking skills? Say you've never unlocked any ranger skills on your account, would unlocking Razah unlock its default ranger build? Would it only unlock once Razah is changed to a ranger? Or would it even require that you change Razah to a ranger before adding it to your party for the first time? - Alexis Toran (talk) 16:04, 23 February 2023 (UTC)
- Tested it myself. It turns out that it's possible for a hero to have skills on its bar without unlocking them for the account. - Alexis Toran (talk) 02:33, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
