Talk:Razah/2007-2011

Note from Linsey

When we were first talking about giving out a hero in the Domain of Anguish, it was generally agreed that a variable profession "Doppleganger"-esque hero would be the coolest thing to do. We moved forward under the assumption that this is what we would do including putting it in the manual but when it came to implementation the difficulties that popped up with doing a variable profession hero were too great and at the time we didn't have a Ritualist hero so we went with that instead. - Linsey Murdock 23:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Official Screenshot Bad Link?

The link to the official screenshot mentioned in the Trivia section appears to show nothing. Is it me, or has this been removed from guildwars.com? ₪₪ JOSəPH ₪₪ 09:53, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Fixed, I hope :) - anja 09:56, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, fixed now, thank you very much! :D ₪₪ JOSəPH ₪₪ 10:19, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Razah's unknown armor set

I think that in the upcoming expansion: Eye of the north, that there will be a challenge mission, which will give an armor remnant for razah, ths giving him the unknown armor set. Thats what i think anyways.

Anyone else have an opinion on it?

According to User talk:Emily Diehl#Razah's other armor there's a bug that prevents you from getting it from one of the existing challange missions. My guess would be The Shadow Nexus. Hopefully it will get fixed once GW:EN is out the door. --Valshia 17:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Your character must have completed the Nightfal Campaign

Redundent? To access the Realm of Torment you need to complete the campaign, without completing the campaign you can't access the outpost. We don't say play in Vabbi you must complete Istand and Kourna. Dancing Gnome 09:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I reverted. There's no harm mentioning it. It's much less obvious when something requires campaign completion. If there's a hero that you get right after "completing a region" (whatever that means), I won't disagree with such a note. -- ab.er.rant 03:44, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that you should mention "You need to complete the Nightfall campaign" in the article for the quest itself, but is it really necessary in this page? Since it has nothing to do with Razah, only the quest you do to get him/her/it, which anyone will check if interested in gaining him/her/it.

Sometimes a person will just look up one article, to find out how/what/where. He/she may not know an area is only accessible after campaign completion, so it is worth keeping a short sentence in this article. While we are knowledgeable on all things Guild Wars, a newcomer might not be, if you understand my point of view. josəph 03:25, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair enuf

Gender?

Even though Razah is considered more of an "It" than he or she, what do you PERSONALLY believe Razah to be? I myself have always considered it more male, I consider Razah's body built to a more masculine sort of design, then again I seem to have always thought of a character of unidentified gender to be male, but that might just be me, what do you all think? Kinslayer 16:44, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

He's not just considered an "It". He is an "It". It's natural to think of Razah as male since he basically uses the male model. It's also a natural tendency for males to lean towards "he" and "him". -- ab.er.rant 06:43, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I consider him an It just like Voldo from Soul Calibur :P--Crazyejackson715 18:47, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Well i know this is a bit late and also a bit off topic but voldo was a guy and was always ment to be a guy--Azreal of Skyrim 00:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Voldo is definitely male. Razah... he's just shaped after a male human. MithTalk 21:53, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

But, Mith, it could be a female demon.|Killer demon 10:33, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I find it interesting how people think a coalescence of The Mists eeven has a gender. He (and i only say he because it is a male name and male Framework used for his charachter model) was nothing and became something. If anything i would place a bet that Razah has no gender. 71.193.48.146 10:41, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

He IS a IT. If we knew what his- what-am-I-saying-, IT'S voice is, we couldn't know for even %10, what gender IT is.|Killer demon 17:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Razah is a guy he has a male ritualist body, doesnt take that much to figure out... -- Slash, BURN!, Delete... 19:03, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Transgendered. :o Waar Kijk Je Naar 16:24, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to refer to Razah as [1] whenever possible. -Maskeus 16:50, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

He's not Legion. Legion is Many. Razah is One. MithTalk 03:58, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Razah is one. The Pope is one. Therefore the Pope and Razah are one. – NuclearDuckie 13:44, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

The one Razah is is not the same one anyone else is. Each one is different. MithTalk 15:12, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Not that I really care, but since the note I noticed and noted's not notably noteworthy, I'll put it here:
In languages that specify the genders of nouns, Razah's professions are rendered in the male form (however, in some languages, male serves for neutral as well).
It doesn't mean Razah is definitely male -- it does mean Razah is NOT female. | 72 | 04:05, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Dialogue

While fooling around in the Heart of Abaddon with Razah, I discovered that he says some stuff

• He says this one where the first spirit used to be, the 1 with titan spawn near the wall with the eyes
• This one near the red area where those 2 apirits near each other used to be.
• and this one is where Razah was trapped within the barrier.

Don't know if to add them on the Razah , the Heart of Abaddon article or on both. --MageMontu 14:45, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm... what about adding them to the Finding a Purpose article? Do they seem like they belong to the quest? Also, did you grab the other dialogue lines as well? The quest article is missing the intermediate ones. -- ab.er.rant 16:10, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not part of the quest, I just felt like killing everything in their again while Razah was in d party, don't ask why cause I don't know. --MageMontu 17:41, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Btw there were no other dialogue, as soon as you approach the area he just say those stuff, nothing else. Maybe if there was another specific hero the dialogue continues :/ I wonder which if that's d case. --MageMontu 21:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

You weren't doing the quest at that time? In that case, put it in the explorable area then. It doesn't seem to fit in nicely with the usual hero quotes. -- ab.er.rant 02:02, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

As Razah doesn't say this like a regular quote, and as dialogue like it normally only appears during quests or missions istead, i would assume that this could possibly lead to an undocumented quest. Maybe there's even a quest reward? (A green Razah-related item similar to Gwen's Flute (unique) or (doubtful) the third missing mesmer hero ;P). —ZerphaThe Improver 13:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Ok I'm guilty, I also thought of an undocumented quest and I was experimenting in secret :P --MageMontu 15:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Human bonding rituals often involve a great deal of talking, and dancing, and crying.

   -Worf to Data, on weddings, Star Trek: The Next Generation, “Data’s Day”

Powerful Ritualist?

In Razah's description it says he/she/it is connected to all things spiritual and is a "powerful ritualist". Lets face it, he/she/it is not. He/she/it is no more powerful than Xandra, and while a second ritualist does come in handy, I don't think the trouble of getting him/her/it by completing Nightfall and waiting all that time does credit to the contribution made to the party.--Stu 09:49, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Keep in mind he was the first ritualist hero, and added to the game several months before EotN was even an idea. At the time, the description was more apt to create excitement in players to complete Nightfall to get him. -- Wyn 10:02, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

It's just a flavorful description... -- ab.er.rant 01:51, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Idiot. All Ritualist heroes are the same, all Elementalist, all Necromancer heroes are the same, etc. Razah is called a "powerful Ritualist" because it's closer to a spirit than any other hero (literally). Aldarik 03:44, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, way to reply to a seven-month-old comment with a needless, baseless insult. gj, bb. Elysea 03:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Wrong, in PvP they're all the same.

Razah > Xandra,

M.O.X. > Kahmu = Melonni,

Ogden > Tahlkora = Dunkoro,

Vekk = Zhed > Sousuke,

Pyre Fierceshot > Jin = Margrid,

Jora > Koss = Goren.

Though this only affects disease and miasma in PvE only, you want the most racially diverse.

And as a side note, Razah pwnt me in norn fighting tournament, but I can beat anyone else, easily.

It also affects EoE. It's not a very bright idea entering Oola's Lab with EoE and M.O.X., XD. As an additional side note, Razah is REALLY easy if you bring any other creature to distract the spirits, like a pet or an Asura summon. MithTalk 13:43, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Razah is the same as Xandra in the way of disease and miasma, read the notes (i realise this answer is outdated but had to post it). And Anet should change the line 'Razah is a powerful ritualist' since he now can be anything.95.180.76.188 19:57, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Construct?

The article lists Razah as a construct, but he is (at least by lore) a demon that has similarities to humans. I am curious, how did it come to that Razah was a construct? -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 00:58, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, let's see...

1. A Construct is a type of creature that is neither alive nor undead. They are artificial creatures animated to perform a certain task
2. Razah was created, not born.

Razah was created/animated so "construct" seems to fit it well. --NIN37 10:17, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

What part of GW lore mentions that Razah is a demon? -- ab.er.rant 00:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The Manuscripts does. It's even on his page. "The protomatter that makes up the Mists strains toward creation, often spawning demonic creations in nightmarish forms. Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however. When the Mists come into contact with a suitable human template, for example, it can copy that form, creating a sentient entity with humanoid appearance and an almost human mind." Not directly stated, but heavily implied. Direct creatures from the Mists would be demons, but there are some that look like other, already created, creatures. Razah would be one of those kinds of demons. In the GW Universe - unless my interpretation is completely wrong - demon simply refers to a creation directly from the Mists. Whether good or evil. The original Gods would have been demons, for instance. Races and beings created through the influence of other beings would not. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 00:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit - Also, Constructs are objects (body parts, armor, weapons, etc.) that are inhabited by a soul - similar to Undead (difference is that undead are only bodies, nothing else). Which kicks Razah out of that category. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 00:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I thought that says the protomatter in the Mists "often spawns demonic creations", but "Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic, however." I would think that implies Razah is not demonic in nature but rather a unique "sentient entity with humanoid appearance and an almost human mind". Construct isn't exactly what Razah is, but it's an approximation I suppose. It's either that or we leave it blank or maybe a create a unique type. Still, it depends on how strictly you interpret "construct". -- ab.er.rant 17:06, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, Stone Summit Siege Golems are constructs too, but their family is different, they are elementals. There are many other constructs in the game:

• Titans
• Monoliths
• Temple Guardians
• Stone Guardians
• Shiro'ken.
• Golems

And the list goes on and on. One thing is the lore, and other the mechanics. The type we put here is not what they are lorewise, but that skills and properties will consider them. If a +damage vs demons does not afffect a creature, that creature is not a demon, for example. So if you want to test Razah's race bing unique or another, just bring him with disease or EoE in several places with those creatures, and try to spread disease and trigger EoE. For now, I've seen construct as a race applied only to Shiro's Contruct bosses, although I always thought they were the same race as Shiro'ken, we can try that in Shunjian District. My guess is that Razah is either his own race, or any of the humanoid races found typically in the mists(demonic, nightmare, ghost, etc). MithTalk 05:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

First, Construct is, by definition, something that is constructed or built. To call Razah a construct would call all living things such, that is, in general terms. Second, in GW lore (this part is mainly towards Mith) Constructs refer to creatures that are made and animated through the use of a soul (Undead, Shiro'ken, Juggernauts, Titans, would be "confirmed" constructs in this manner). Golems are "constructs" (general term uses) that are animated via magic (Monoliths, Temple/Stone Guardians, Asuran Golems, Enchanted Armor/Weapons, Jade Armor, etc.). I understand that what we put here is via mechanics, and we put them under what family mechanics deem them. Unless it's confirmed what "family" something is under, however, it should go under lore. In my opinion that is. Besides, if my memory serves me right, nothing but himself affects him with family/species/whatever kind of things. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 05:48, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, anyways, it can't be a construct if it 'spawns' from the mists, constructs are only created on purpose. Demons and elementals 'spawn', while constructs are only created. Razah came to be after a human template, but it was a natural process due to the nature of the mists. Not an intentional process initiated by a sentient entity. So whatever he is, if he doesn't share type with any other creature, he is not a construct. MithTalk 12:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't Razah created to fulfill a great purpose? Or had Abaddon just taken a living being (born elsewhere) and bounded it there? Argh, better ask Seer of Truth directly. :P --NIN37 16:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

There has been discussions on that line in the past. Some believe that Razah was intended to be a new general for Abaddon. Others say he was meant to do what he is doing now - collect information (possibly be a spy on Tyria as he is so humanoid). Still others say he was to be a catalyst for Abaddon's power if he were killed (but Abaddon didn't count on Kormir, or dying to soon) - that theory goes hand in hand with the theory that Abaddon will return in GW2 possessing Kormir. Of these, I say the general for Abaddon or the gathering information are the only likely ones - maybe both were the case. Either way, no matter which option of these, it is "fulfilling a great purpose" for Abaddon. -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 04:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Fan Club

Since Razah is so badass, he needs fan club.--Tyri Sunbeam 06:39, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

A fan club, huh? That wouldn't really work... there'd be nothing to talk about, except how awesome Razah is. Aldarik 22:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

And how Xandra is used waaay more often if a Hero Rt is ever needed. MithTalk 01:01, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Not necessarily. I prefer Razah over Xandra by FAR (I just don't like Xandra much), and in most of the HB's I've watched, I see more Razahs than Xandras running around. Then again, personal anecdote is anecdotey. Elysea 01:05, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Affiliation

There are only two ways for a character to have affilitation. One is the 'army', the internal value the game gives all creatures. In the case of players, it is known that they have no army at all. In the case of charmed companions, heroes and hecnhmen, it is unknown if they have 'army'. The other is the lore affiliation. We find Razah when he was barely born. He had no time to become affiliated to anything, not even by default like mindless monsters or uncharmed animals. Unless anyone finds his internal 'army', then his affiliation should be 'none'. MithTalk 13:30, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

"Affiliation is a classification of Creatures that is distinguished by the mechanics of bounty Blessings and the various of slaying weapon mods. They often, but not always, correspond to social organizations or common mindsets, including tribal identities, armies, and political groups. Non-sentient creatures unable to form such groups generally belong to regional wildlife groupings." And check things out here Guild_Wars_Wiki_talk:Formatting/NPCs#Affiliation. -- riyen ♥ 18:37, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Razah is not a non-sentient creature. MithTalk 15:16, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure? he's not replied once, and I talk to him in Teamchat all the time. ena. 15:28, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't talk much, but it does talk the first time you find it. MithTalk 03:31, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

In the storyline he's sentient. He questions mortality and various other concepts and such, sentient generally means that you are self-aware and since he thinks about his own existance he's sentient.

Family

Note that in the isle of the nameless (both PvP and PvE versions) heroes will be considered human like in the rest of PvP, so tests for species there are not valid, and since it's PvP changing the species, the species that should be shown in the article is the species in PvE, which is not human in this case. I tried in PvE, and so far all I know for sure is that he does not spread disease to other humans. EoE test would be next, if I manage to remember it and convince someone to help me a little bit. So, he may or may not be a demon, but he's not human for sure. For now, I'll just set him a page for creatures with unconfirmed family called 'Unknown'. MithTalk 14:08, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Neither The jade Sera nor Kryta is located on the Battle Isles. Backsword 14:35, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

He is, in a lore sense, a demon, and if he's not in a mechanics sense a human, then he's not going to be anything else except a demon, is he? So I think we should keep it as it was until it can be tested with EoE (and even then that doesn't prove anything, M.O.X. might not necessarily trigger EoE for golems, but he is still most definitely a golem). --Santax (talk · contribs) 14:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

the infobox is not for lore (too unstructured), however "Not all creatures from the Mists are demonic". Backsword 14:56, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

That's demonic in nature, not in species. And if he's not a demon, what else is he? --Santax (talk · contribs) 15:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

I made some tests with some monsters with Putrid Flesh, by sending Razah with a shadow step, and bringing him back so the monsters can't follow and apply disease to other party members. Disease was spread to human party members. So the game considers Razah human. That makes sense lorewise, since he's a 'copy' of a human. Being a copycat of a human, he could perfectly have been copied by the mists to the celular level. Whatever he really is, though, it's still unknown, and part of his 'mistery'. I suggest to keep it that way, and put the mechanics family in the info box(human), and the 'unknown' family in notes or trivia. MithTalk 15:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Chronomancer

After looking at the Guild Wars Utopia concept art (on the wiki), he kind of looks like a chronomancer. His story/bio would fit pretty well within that concept. The above comment was by me. Nova152.7.14.158 22:49, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Change his profession

Today's update made him a 'variable' hero again, he can be any profession now. Devi Talk 23:04, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

It should stay ritualist in the infobox, because the player get it with that profession. 91.82.212.73 23:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

no he is a any profession hero it should show any. you can see that that was indeded from nf's release or john stummes comments seen here- Zesbeer 00:52, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I made a few tweaks here and there. Mercenary heroes and Razah are properly show as 'multiple professions'. Maybr it should be 'All professions' or 'Any professions'. It's only two pages and a template so it's easy to change. Still, Notes or Trivia should still state that he starts as a ritualist. MithTalk 02:00, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

To change his profession go back to the heart of abaddon. You will see him right when you enter. Talk to him to change his profession.

Hm... I'm thinking that maybe 'variable' would be better than 'multiple'. Yep. I'll change that if anyone agrees. MithTalk 02:25, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

His profession can be changed but he cannot have more than one primary profession. That makes his primary profession alterable.

Does his armor change also? Or does he still stay squishy even when he's a warrior?

He changes professions like Mercenaries. So armor rating changes too. But just the 'stats' of the armor, not its appearance. He keeps both his 3 models and his ritualist rig and its emotes. Make him a paragon to have some fun looking at him throwing spears and chanting, ritualist moves are hilarious. MithTalk 14:42, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Besides the obviously redundant notion as to why PVP characters should have heroes in the first place, how can they change their Razah's primary profession? 84.56.154.186 17:55, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Hm... you could go to the Feedback pages and ask ANet to make him appear in the isle of the Nameless. MithTalk 18:08, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Even if he is a 'multiple' profession hero, why him? I don't think I will ever change him off of rit. Anet should have changed something else that we have three of and don't need three of (paragon, derv) and would have made more sense to change, i.e. Mox. First, he's a robot, so he could be built for anything. Secondly, he wields a scythe yet punches enemies? And lastly, when are you going to need three dervs? Just my 2 cents. --Seventh 10:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Razah was supposed to be variable in the first place. Now, if you went to the feedback pages and suggested to 2 more ritualists to get 3 fixed ones or even making Mox variable too, I think many people will support those ideas. MithTalk 14:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

While I think lots would support it, I doubt that anything would change, because that would cut into their profit from mercenary heroes. --Seventh 13:02, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Hero selection order

How does this effect Razah placement on the Add Hero party selection panel? --Falconeye 01:26, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

When I changed him to Necromancer, It placed him at the bottom with the other Necromancers. Kaisha 02:38, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Multi-Profession... Now what?

Even though he is originally a ritualist, now that Razah is a variable profession... Does that mean there is room for 2 more ritualist heroes? I see no reason why they wouldn't allow there to be 4 of every profession except for ritualist. Derikvyreflame 03:52, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, now you can have 7 of every profession... as long as you dish out. | 72 | 22:55, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

they probably think you don't need more than 2 rits because their builds would be hard to create after 2 of them. Think about it, one SoS, one SoGM, then what? Can't do soul twisting, not enough spirits left. Resto rits are... meh and DwG.. doesn't work on a hero, atleast not well 173.69.27.153 16:35, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Utility has nothing to do with how ANet decided this, otherwise there would be three mesmers, only one assassin, one ranger, four elementalists, etc. (Plus, there are all sorts of ways to use 4+ rit heroes successfully.) 75.36.181.196 16:52, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

If there will be 3 heroes for every primary, I doubt Razah will no longer count as one of the ritualists. It *is* his default profession, after all. - Infinite - talk 17:10, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

@ip173: If you don't go full out spirits on heroes, but only bring 1-3 spirit skills per and the rest being skills which can have more than one in the party active at a time, then you can easily get a team of 4+ rits working well, even if the latter spirits are not as efficient as others (e.g., Wanderlust+Earthbind being one of the last chosen spirits to bring). Konig/talk 18:53, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Paid profession change ?

With Razah able to change his primary profession I'd personally love to see a primary profession change as a paid service. It's totally optional and you would lose you're profession specific runes and insignias on you're armor. Albeit i'm not sure how it'll work with armor sets that aren't available to let's say Paragons.

Another example of a primary profession changing NPC is Keiran Thackeray during the mini missions you are a Ranger primary and he's unlocked as a Paragon hero. Tjal Lee 16:27, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

1. Feedback:Getting_started - suggestions don't belong here.
2. The issue with your suggestion is that professions for PCs have specific models, whereas with NPCs it hasn't mattered since Prophecies. It's impossible to change a character's model (and animations) since there's no shared face/armor/etc.
3. Keiran's profession change is story-driven, thus doesn't count as an example. Same goes for Razah, tbh, since he is more or less not-limited by the bloodstones since he's not from Tyria (I'm guessing that's the lore explanations - but he was always intended to be a changing profession). There's no such backing for PCs (atm), and as per point 2, the technical limitations make it very tedious. 20:11, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Wrong information

Before completing Finding a Purpose

"You are not from this place. Who and what are you?"

Before completing Finding a Purpose

"I have seen many wondrous sights in my travels with you, yet there are countless paths left to walk. What other knowledge might I gain by looking at things from a new perspective? Maybe it is time for me to answer a different calling. What say you."

isnt this info wrong? i mean is Before in the first one and after in the last one... dont want to change it and be wrong so i ask here--Batousai 04:17, 31 December 2011 (UTC)