Talk:Trial of Zinn/Archive 1

Dialogue file

File:Trial of Zinn Dialogue.jpg Here, got the dialogue for it :P--/ u /nendingfear File:User Unendingfear Avatar.png 05:08, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Also, may want to add "10 minutes later" after Earbiter,"20 minutes later" after Nincompoop "And 5.???? seconds later" after Mamp requests the abacus --71.95.46.36 05:31, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

5.2708 seconds to be exact. -- Cat Slayer Calli 05:39, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

It is poosible to jump behind the golems that guard the exits. In my case I used Recall on one of them and removed it and ended up behind. There is not much point in doing so tho, but I might aswell make a note here. Behind the portal to Vloxen Excavations you might be able to get some extra explor, unsure tho. But you can on the other hand walk right thru the portal to Arbor bay and explore without any enemies present. End of world found behind the portal to SoO. ip:84.217.52.58

Did anyone happen to take screenshots of dialogues from the NPCs from the area which triggers the trial? I was stupid and didn't -.- - J.P.Talk 18:32, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

--92.4.42.154 12:00, 3 January 2011 (UTC) Seems pointless to me, as an Enchanter I have nothing equipped to allow me to Get behind the Golems to explore Arbor Bay unhindered. So just a case of watching the Cinematic then Map travel out of the place.

Shepard.

Wrex. 99.140.176.26 11:47, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Shepard. --fraught · (talk) 13:04, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Wrex. --Santax (talk · contribs) 13:09, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Not sure what this is about but.... Garrus. Eive Windgrace 00:55, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

TALI!! Aquadrizzt 13:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

The truth -- Can you handle it?

Lots of pop culture references in the dialogue. What else, besides the obvious Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Men? -- FreedomBound 13:02, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Intruder Zinn is another reference to Invader Zim and G.O.X. sings the "Dhuum Song" which is a reference to Gir's "Doom Song". Oh and after the trial, Troi said that if he would've been in charge, it would've been the best trial (or something like that) OF ALL TIME, so Kanye West comes to mind. I can't think of anything else, though. Haruno Midori 13:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Well if you speak with Mamp afterwards he tells you about two books "to kill a moa bird" and "trial by stone" whereas "to kill a moa bird" is a reference to "to ikll a mocking bird" 84.142.70.201 13:53, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

And then there's just Councilor Troi in general... whose name I couldn't help giggle at as it reminded me instantly of Deanna Troi (the ship's Counselor) from Star Trek TNG.lol. Leliel 14:49, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Denn and Krayn -> Denny Crane from Boston Legal.

I'd let Kanye West finish... but he's the biggest douche of all time. --58.7.249.14 14:17, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Dialogue

^Added it. -- Lacky 13:56, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

OBJECTION

OBJECTION! --Bargaw 14:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

ROFLLLLLL^^^^^ (Tango)???? 84.56.134.178 10:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

NPC quotes

During the trial, I ran around and talked to all of the npcs in the witness area, and they all had new dialogue. I have screenshots of most of them, but I'll type them in here for simplicity. I would add them, but I don't know where to put them. Sorry for the wall of text.

Lian, Dragon's Petal:
(before trial):

gold and platinum
to gild Oola's arguments
all join against Zinn

(after trial):

a deft maneuver
Zinn loses cool and the case
bravo, Denn and Krayn

(Note: These are the exact lines, with lack of capitalization and punctuation included. They are also haikus).

Lexx:
(before trial): Oola was right! This trial is going to make great fodder for a new book.
(after trial): Hmm… There were a few juicy parts, but I’m afraid I’ll have to embellish a bit if I want a best-seller. Let’s see: “It was a dark and stormy night…”

Denn and Krayn (after trial):

"Denn and Krayn! Let us hear you say it." ¹

⇒ Denn and Krayn!

"That's right!"

⇒ Denn and Krayn?

"Aw. That's no good. Try it again."

⇒ [character name]!

"[Character name]! Feels good doesn't it?"

Councilor Lumpys: What a terrible miscarriage of justice! If I'd been running that trial, it would have been one of the best miscarriages of justice of all time. OF ALL TIME!

Councilor Troi: I really thought Zinn was going to go with "You'll live to regret this!" rather than "Fools! I[sic] show you all!" It's a matter of personal taste, I suppose, but I think the former is more traditional.

Councilor Mamp: Never saw an asuran trial before, huh? If you liked that, you should read some of the classic asuran legal dramas... "To Kill a Moa Bird" and "Trial by Stone" are two of my favorites.

Councilor Oola: That was too easy! I’m going to be repaying council members throughout half of Zinn’s ten-year sentence, I’m sure, but it was worth it.

Councilor Wrex: Honestly, I’m not sure banishment’s much of a punishment. Sometimes I think a ten-year vacation from these bookahs would be a welcome change of pace.

Councilor Mintoc: You know, with so many subjects gathered in one place, perhaps now’s a good time to test that Temporary Cognitive Obliterator I’ve been working on…booweeoooop. Getting the effects to be temporary has been much trickier than I had anticipated.

Big Machine Krewe Member:
(before trial): Nice to take a break from working on the Big Machine. The tough thing about living on the surface these days is that there aren’t all those Dwarves and Dredge to trick into doing all our manual labor.
(after trial): An amusing way to pass an afternoon, but I’d take a good explosion over this any day. At least an explosion is unpredictable.

Renk:
(before trial): Did you know that Zinn used to use my catchphrase without permission? “This is where magic comes to life!” That’s mine. I made it up.
I’m really looking forward to him getting a “fair” trial.
(after trial): Justice is served!

Weapon Krewe Member:
(before trial): The boss says we get to unleash the Large Hydra Collider if things get out of hand. I’m really looking forward to that. Some people were worried when we started this project, but Lumpys promises that the odds we’ll accidentally destroy the world are very small.

(after trial): In retrospect, it may be for the best that we didn’t try to use the Large Hydra Collider. It takes a few days to warm up, and Asura arguments rarely last that long without something or someone exploding anyway.

Purifier Krewe Member:
(before trial): So much tension and scheming among the geniuses. Hopefully this trial will give them a chance to clear the air. That’s a joke. I’m part of the “Purifier” Krewe. You can laugh.
(after trial): At first I was happy no violence broke out. Then I was a little disappointed. Then I considered the probability that I might have been caught in the crossfire. I’m back to being happy now.

Machine Krewe Member:
(before trail): I’m not sure what I’m doing here. Wrex just told me to stand in this area for a few minutes.
(after trial): Is it over? That was quick.

Vabbian Bodyguard (before and after): No sudden movements while you’re near the prince! Keep your hands where I can see them.

Prince Bokka the Magnificent:
(before trial): I am of two minds, I tell you. Shall I indulge my outrage, still smoldering from the unjust and unprovoked assault on my noble personage? Or shall I glory in the spectacle of this trial? I know. I shall do both!
(after trial): These little creatures have a flair for the dramatic, do they not? I think I must find one among them to design sets for the theater in Makuun… and perhaps to write some soliloquies. If only that Zinn were not so dangerous, I might offer him an invitation.

Vixx:
(before trial): So what did Oola offer you for your testimony? Nothing? In that case, you may be the only one here not getting paid. Well, aside from Zinn, of course.
(after trial): With Zinn exiled, that’s one fewer competitor to worry about.

Hasrah:
(before trial: I had never laid my eyes on an Asura before. Curious that such small creatures can cause such big problems.
(after trial): I’m not sure this banishment is such a good idea. Won’t that troublemaker just end up in Kryta now?

Brother Theophilus:
(before trial) – unknown (forgot to check)
(after trial): It is said that fiction, insofar as it serves a greater purpose, may be sees as lies that reveal the truth. I suspect that this is what we witnessed here today.

Brother Mizar:
(before trial): I am here to speak the truth. No more. No less.
(after trial): I am not sure exactly what has happened. I think it’s time for us to leave though.

Kolleen Redstone:
(before trial): Oola promised me a hundred Orrian emblems for making this journey. Let’s hope she makes good on her promise.
(after trial): Well, this has turned out to be a very profitable trip for me.

Jade Brotherhood Knight (both before and after): It is strange being away from Cantha. Where are all the buildings? It’s unnatural!

Zinn:
(before trial) – unknown (forgot to check)
(after trial): It appears I should have heeded Blimm’s warnings about Oola, but with all the mumbling, it’s hard to make out what he’s saying. He may be smarter than he sounds after all.

G.O.X.:
(before trial): I AM GONNA SING THE DHUUM SONG NOW. DHUUM DA DHUUM DHUUM DA DHUUM DHUUM DHUMMY DHUUM DA DHUMMY DHUMMY DHUUM DHUUM DA DHUUM DHUUM DIB. THE END!
(after trial): OOLA SO MEAN TO MY MASTER. SHE NOT NICE TO ZINN. I SEEN IT! OOLA IS BAD!

M.O.X. :
(before trial) – unknown (forgot to check)
(after trial): END OF LINE.

Blimm:
(before trial): She’s a schemer… that’s what she does. She schemes. Not just mean, crafy too. I could’ve set the whole lab… set the whole lab on fire.
(after trial): It’s not right… Oola wins again. She had my staff you know. Red Asuraline staff… my staff. Moved me right to the cellar without the staff. It’s not right.

Ailina 15:25, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and just to be clear, all of the councilor member quotes are from AFTER the trial. From what I saw, the quote from before the trial only are on their respective pages. Hope this helps, and sorry I couldn't put them all where they belong. Good luck! Ailina 15:32, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

You're my savior, man! :D

The only piece of dialogue missing is what Brother Theophilus says before the trial. - J.P.Talk 19:00, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

If spoken to during the trial (and, presumably, before), he says, "IF IT DOES NOT COM-PUTE, YOU MUST AC-QUIT." is for Raine, etc. 23:57, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, i added that to M.O.X.'s article earlier today.

And what i meant was the article about Brother Theophilus being the only one missing any dialogue from this area. - J.P.Talk 00:05, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Not anymore ^^ - J.P.Talk 01:19, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

mox sais "end of line" on if you speak to him that is probly a note to the movie tron maybe that coud be a part of the notes or trivia (naloj) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 78.21.221.244 (talk).

If it is trivia, it belongs on his page, not here. -- Konig/talk 18:21, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

srry i just noticed is is on his personal page, my bad (naloj)

Persecution vs. Prosecution

Is the use of "persecution" in place of the correct spelling "prosecution" a purposeful nod to the injustice of the trial? Twyst Tye 17:01, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

I think I remember something in the trial where one of the NPCs asks the difference between persecution and prosecution and they say don't worry about it it's the same thing or something...can't remember though... -- Lacky 17:34, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

if u talk to the 2 npc's Before trial, u can ask that question. They will say something like Lacky said.--Mann Of Strength 18:18, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I don't think that needs, or deserves, a sic tag. -- FreedomBound 18:37, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, it's not an error but a fairly obvious play on words. I found the NPC quote reference Denn_and_Krayn; this answers my question Twyst Tye 21:50, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the sic tag is to do with the use of the word, it is to do with the lack of a space between the end of the previous sentence and the word persecution. --San Darkwood 11:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Only Once

I watched the trial and afterwards mapped out of the area. When I entered Arbor Bay again Chark wasn't there. Is that supposed to happen or not? Etnys 17:09, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, it's only available once per character Twyst Tye 17:19, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Once per character, or once per account? -- Lacky 17:34, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

According to the discussion at GW2Guru, it's once per character. But I have not tested this myself, and won't be able to do so for a few more hours Twyst Tye 18:11, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

It's once per character. But if you get someone who hasn't done it before to bring you into Arbor Bay, it'll get Chark to spawn and he'll let you in again. - Linsey talk 22:39, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

References

The amount of real-world cultural and literary references are almost too many to count. --Curin Derwin 17:36, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Aye, starting to lose its novelty. Vael Victus 06:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Intruder Zinn

Reference to invader Zim? Some Ninja Dude 23:19, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes. is for Raine, etc. 23:58, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Unfortunately Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 03:49, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

How dare you...Karate Jesus 20:20, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I loved that one and the "Dhuum Song". Markus Clouser 10:53, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

So...

It's funny, but what's the point? --98.117.123.139 09:54, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

To give us some more information about the Asura for GW2. Reaper of Scythes** 10:10, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I think this is part 1 of some story arch, similar to the Gwen/Thackeray's first set of dialogue. That was funny, but had no point, until the second addition. Which is bound to continue. -- Konig/talk 10:19, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

As the guy said they just giving hints for Guild Wars 2, i think there will be more updates like this giving us more clues for gw 2 and how it will look. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 95.180.9.137 (talk) at 16:34, 10 April 2010 (UTC).

I think the point is to tell a story and give people something new and fun in Guild Wars. What's the point of playing an RPG, reading a book or talking to people? Experience, enjoyment, knowledge... fun? *shrug* I just wanted to do something awesome. The Trial of Zinn is freaking awesome and I'm glad we did it. - Linsey talk 21:02, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

9/10. Doing awesome things because you want to do awesome things is always good. is for Raine, etc. 21:10, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

It's not like the whole playerbase is giving its feedback on new content, so to use a few players' opinions on this isn't worth it. --smøni 21:31, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm still putting money on my idea. Even against the maker! -- Konig/talk 02:03, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I ithink, Konig might be right here - even if not intended by ANET, it might become a selfrunner!84.56.134.178 10:41, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

It's simple. Zinn is exiled. Zinn goes through Maguuma and meets the Shining Blade. Zinn makes golems for SB. The new Golem-SB killing machine mows the lawn in Kryta leaving it free of "peacekeepers". The Mantle run to seek help from Mursaat. Zinn makes Golem-SB-Mk2 with a new death-ray cannon that will obliterate the Mursaat. D'Alessio Seaboard will be double instanced and it'll be renamed Zinn's Laboratory and Kryta will be ruled by Salma with its trusty asuran, High Priest-Savant-Thing....you guessed.. Zinn! See? Jokes aside, loved the trial so thanks for making me laugh! Markus Clouser 11:00, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Actually I could well imagine Zinn and his golems saving the day for the Shining Blade. If this trial was merely a lore setup for GW2 asuras, why would they implement it exactly now, during the War in Kryta? Roland of Gilead talk 11:27, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Why would he help the humans? From the dialogue humans don't rate high on his friendly list.

The Trial left me feeling uneasy, it made the asuran seem like a bunch of immature children (playing to the player base, Anet?), they're still very everything is below me, which is them through and through, but, for me at least, it degenerated their appeal. Or, maybe it's because I'm the hero of the game and everything is beneath me. I suppose all the reference geeks are having their "OMG OMG OMG" periods over all the coolness of the piece I'm obviously not caring about. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:55, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, from "Deactivating *.O.X." we learn that Zinn is quite concerned about defending his reputation as a Golemancer. And what better way to prove his golems' value than having them fight against hordes of White Mantle? The WM would crush the Shining Blade as things are now, with their vulnerable camp and all, so the SB needs some outside help. Zinn may not have any love for humans, but he could help them, even if mostly for his own purposes. Whether that makes him likable or not is debatable, but story-wise it's not out of the question imho. Roland of Gilead talk 10:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

gw golems are kinda wimpy. they look cool and all, but anybody can beat them. I remember the first time I fought an adamantite golem in bg2... without any support or prep time, it single-handedly wiped the floor with my entire 6-man group plus summons in under a minute. aside from being immune to basically everything and moving twice as fast as any player character without haste, they also look like a 50-foot silver hulk, which is awesome. why can't mox do that? –Jette 10:46, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah well obviously you can't make every single trash golem as strong as those bg2 golems, if you have to fight a dozen at the same time in every other room, like in Oola's Lab. Also, golems like Zinn's N.O.X. or Oola's Indestructible Golem prove there are stronger ones out there too. Roland of Gilead talk 11:59, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Arbor Bay cartography

After shadow stepping past the golem sentries, you can do cartography of Arbor Bay, including a bit of the map behind the Shards of Orr portal. That part of the map is black even according to my textmod, but I have it uncovered. Jafar 17:31, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Read the notes. It already says you can explore Arbor Bay.--neshot 17:32, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

The notes don't say that you can uncover areas that cannot otherwise be uncovered in normal gameplay. You can also pass through the portal between Arbor Bay and Riven Earth and uncover some more. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Jafar (talk).

Feel free to add it, then.--neshot 17:40, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Exile

Technically, it was the Athenians who practised the ten-years exile thing (known as osctracism, after the pot sherds on which votes were written, ostraka), rather than all of the Greeks, and it was only for a relatively short time, generally agreed to have begun about 488BC and ended about 417BC. Furthermore, it wasn't so much a punishment as a guard against politicans becoming too powerful. I therefore propose the first trivia point is amended to "The punishment in the trial is similar to the fifth century BC Athenian practice of ostracism, in which the exile, in this case usually a politician who became too powerful, would be exiled for ten years and would face execution if he returned before the ten years had ended, unless recalled prior to this." Ancient Athens is my area of expertise, so I just wanted to clarify. However, if anyone feels this is too specific, feel free to alter it as required. 88.107.153.66 22:46, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Can't we just change Greeks to Athenians? Taros 22:57, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Bravo IP you got it right on the nose, so go ahead and change it if you want; I kept forgetting the details. - Giant Nuker 23:10, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

It was fun but...

Needs more Phoenix Wright. 'Overlord Frosty'

You can blame Zinn for not hiring a desk-slamming defense attorney, and the prosecution for not drinking 17 cups of coffee. Miyuki Minase 15:04, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Moving Past the Sentries

During/after the trial, you can shadow step past the Golem Sentries and explore Arbor Bay with no enemies. You can also go through the gate that exits to Alcazia Tangle and hit an edge-of-the-world spot. If you move past the sentries guarding the gate to the Vloxen Excavations, you can run through the Asura gate, straight up the mountain side, and then look down on the gate - or turn around for some smeared edge-of-the-world rendering. -Ninjatek 02:26, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm.. that's not right...

It seems it allowed me to re-enter the trial after seeing it already, without anyone in my party. I was walking a friend through the processes of WiK and was explaining him where Chark was. Upon loading outside he allowed me to re-enter the dialogue. -- Magic Talk 04:20, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

That was confirmed to be possible by someone (Linsey, on this page, here). If you're with someone that has not seen it, you can get in with them. -- FreedomBound 12:11, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

FreedomBound, you're slacking. "without anyone in my party" -Original Comment. -- Magic Talk 16:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I saw the "walking a friend through the processes" and skipped ahead. My bad. Did you watch the whole thing originally? Some of the dialogues repeat if you don't watch them completely. -- FreedomBound 16:37, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah and then took advantage of not having monsters in the explorable. Mapped everything out and added some new screen shots to my collection (which I use for desktop backgrounds). -- Magic Talk 22:58, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Skipping the requirements

It is possible to bypass the requirements for entry to the trial by getting in a party with someone who has met them already then going outside Vlox falls to talk to Chark. You will then be transported separately to the trial. No need to do zinn's task or complete EotN again. - Especially useful if you want to do the SBB wanted quests on more than one character in order to farm war supplies for Royal Gifts.

Good point. --Musha 13:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Inquest..?

Hmm... so isn't the exile of Zinn a former beginning of "Inquest" as we will know it in Guild Wars 2 ? You know - forbidden resarches, no morality, just like Zinn likes.. .

If that's the case, then we players are helping to set Inquest in motion. Not the first time our "good deeds" have come back to haunt us. We left Ascalon to the charr, we set loose the titans, we freed Palawa Joko, and now we set an immoral asura to work on weapons. Are we sure we're not really playing the bad guys here?-- Pyron Sy 15:27, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

cant access this anymore?

I already did the requirements but theres no Chark outside vlox falls..wtf?

You can still access this. Make sure that you have, indeed, completed the requirement. EITHER complete EotN, as in complete A Time for Heroes quest, OR complete the Zinn quests, or both. --Musha 18:51, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Thirty-two witnesses?

Should it be noted that there are actually thirty witnesses (yourself included) in the witness area? Denn and Krayn, for some unknown reason, may be including Chark and Blimm in their calculations, but they're not exactly in the Witness area. Chark is acting as a process server and Blimm just seems to be a lone asura in the gallery, just "being there" for Zinn. Abased Fear 04:33, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Accessed before eotn or Zinn's tasks

One of my characters, which has not completed EotN, not started the WiK, and not finished Zinn's Tasks, just witnessed Zinn's Trial (yes, I have pics if you wish). Though I'm siding on this being an anomaly, has anyone else had this, or know of what else may have caused it? G R E E N E R 08:18, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Asuran Allies suggests that you now only need to finish The Knowledgeable Asura rather than all of EotN. - Tanetris 09:11, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Then I agree with it, as I have completed the Asuran side of EotN. It's about the only thing my sin has done other than Factions. Thanks! G R E E N E R 09:17, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

No reference to Boston Legal?

Shouldn't this be in the trivia section? Denn and Krayn are obviously a play on Denny Crane. Going to try and add it to the Trivia section. Edit: Oops, I see a note specifically asking me NOT to do that :D Thomasuwoo 14:14, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

infinite movement interaction

Anyone else notice near the part of the stage which is buried on the 1st step its possible to cause your character to get in an infinite walking loop? Just something i noticed while dicking around waiting for the arguments to finish!72.253.181.235 08:07, 11 May 2012 (UTC)