Talk:Ursan Blessing/Archive 1

Ursan Overview

Dear Anet and Anyone,

Ursan: what a mistake. This skill needs a formal sit-down and talk about. I’ve played all campaigns. and ever since this skill came in GWEN, I must say it really needs a rethink. Locations + Farms

From running Shing Jea Island, to slaying Shiro, to Urgoz. From Kamadan to Gate of Anguish. From Ascalon City (PS) to Hell’s Precipice. Sure it’s a nice skill, but over powered to the max destroys the gameplay. I’m all about balance, and I play some skill bars that are very powerful and even though I love them, I think they should be nerfed. This is ridiculously overkill. Everywhere I go, I see “rX ursan LFG <quest/mission>” or “ursan glf <number of ursans needed> rX+ and 2 HB monks.” For example. Fissure of Woe and The Underworld were elite areas. Although the Elementalist, Monk, Warrior, Necromancer, and even Ranger were the most popular options for groups, everything else fitted in. Yes, some people were ignorant and wouldn’t take a Mesmer, just because he was a Mesmer, not because of his skills or skill level. My friends and I have made every single profession shine in FoW, UW and DoA, but not many people want to play them there because they are more difficult to play in such areas. Any profession can be made to work anywhere. With the introduction of Ursan, that’s all that is there. It’s impossible to get a group of people without using Ursan that is any good, because the hardcore farmers see that Ursan clears Fissure of Woe in 1 hour and UW in a similar time, with almost no screw-ups, and everyone has the same skills so skill checking and using the wrong skills is impossible with Ursan. And the newbies don’t have to get skills or learn how to use them, just get your norn title from farming outside Olafstead and your set to do everything in the game using the same skills.

Then, there is Domain of Anguish. What a joke that place is now. 5 Ursans, 3 Monks, 3 hours = full run. Then you go to kill Mallyx in 20 minutes, and take the quest again, and there you go. Rinse and repeat. That place is nothing but “Glf Ursan or Monk” as well. If you want to do a mission, and decide to bring some humans along, like Gate of Madness or even Venta Cemetery, and you went with 8 humans. I’m sure that at least 3 of them will be Ursan. And if asked why, many respond, “it’s so easy.” If you go do the Cathedral of Flames run with a full team, the 600 and smiter aren’t ursan obviously. But if the 600 gets into trouble, you can bet your life that at least 4 other Ursans are going to run into battle. That’s how widespread this is, not even in a place where they would normally not fight like the Cathedral of Flames farming run, people bring Ursan. And you can snap your fingers and they’re in battle, wrecking everything with the same few skills. Then that was that fallout at Hell’s Precipice. Upon the update to add the new end-game area. I went to Hell’s Precipice about 5 minutes later, and about 10 minutes after the update, there were already 3 districts, and what did I see? Ursan this, Ursan that, HB monks, HM, 20 minutes. Half an hour later, there were 8 districts of them. Now I’m sure not every soul in there was Ursan, but the dominating group was them. Now what about everyone else? I was on my Ritualist, and I do have Rank 10 Norn and Ursan. But damn me if I use it. Used it a few times, but it hurt my soul too much to ruin the fun in the game. As a Ritualist, I damn knew that no one was open minded enough to bring a Ritualist, who has skills that they don’t know about, when they could bring a Ursan, skills that they know about, and plow through that mission. There were so many Ursans, that I felt isolated, and I knew that I would not look for a group of non-ursan humans, because I would never get one, and I would probably get laughed at. So I went with 3 of my friends and heroes. And just for the recond, one of them was Ursan as well.

I feel very bad for the people who do not have GWEN (For Ursan) or Nightfall (For Healer's Boon). Because they have a lot of problems getting groups of people they do not know, without using Ursan.

Economy + Simplicity

And talk about an economic disturbance. Obsidian shards and Ectoplasm have fallen through the floor as they are farmed so much in FoW and UW. Even the Gemstones in DoA have dropped in price. Feathers, used to make consumable sets to make ursan flawlessly overkill, have skyrocketed. As well as all the other materials needed for them. And a new market of selling Consumable sets to people has been made. Speaking of easy, I had my 9 year old cousin over a month ago. I showed him this Guild Wars, and he’s never played it. He wanted to play, so I picked out something easy for him. He would play my Ritualist as an Ursan, doing Hard Mode Fissure of Woe. Saying the words "Ritualist" in "Hard Mode" in "fissure of woe" was a joke to most people, let alone doing it in an hour. And that's what it is now: Hard Mode Fissure of Woe: a joke. Told him to follow the green dots, and push the buttons for the first 5 minutes. After that, he did fine by himself. No one else was complaining or telling him to keep up with the group of anything. No one died. And other then having to guide him through getting the quests, he did it all on his own. That's all you need, Ursan, and you’re as good as it gets, time playing doesn’t matter much now. He was just another mindless Ursan drone, clicking the same skills, with the same targets, and the same farming runs.

Professions

So if you are still reading this wall of text, I applaud you, and I hope you work at Anet and are taking this issue seriously. Let’s talk about the 10 professions. You can find out what professions are good at by looking at a summary of them in the manual. Everyone knows that, but now there are entirely new and much more important reasons to be certain professions because of Ursan. Let’s take a look:

Warrior: Highest Armor. Some skills/stances last into Ursan.

Ranger: Higher Armor.

Necromancer: Soul reaping gives you energy to keep Ursan blessing active.

Monk: Can be Ursan and can heal Ursans through Healer’s Boon (popular choice, get the build from anywhere.)

Elementalist: High energy to keep Ursan Blessing Active.

Mesmer: Some mantras, and energy gaining skills to get back into Ursan quickly.

Ritualist: Some skills give energy once out to get back into Ursan quickly.

Assassin: Higher Armor. Critical Strikes is nice.

Dervish: High armor.

Paragon. Probably the best choice. They have the highest armor, plus their Refrain skills last into Ursan via being refreshed by the Ursan shout.

Those are the major factors that make you choose a profession now. You be Ursan or a healing of Ursans, rocket through the games and farm like mad, and pick wisely from the above, or you don’t be Ursan, and you’re just a lowlife poor non-farmer. Welcome to Guild Wars: If you don’t have Ursan Blessing or Healer’s Boon, stay the heck out.

Fixes

As for a fix: It’s so overkill it’s hard to think of one. It sounds radical, but it’s way too powerful to exist in this game. I wouldn’t mind it being deleted. Yeah, you’re going to have a lot of backlash from all the hardcore farmers who are rich because of it, and don’t care about preserving the balance as much as they do money and items. The only option I can see, that could balance this skill is a complete remake. Something like this:

Elite Skill. You take on the aspect of the Bear. Your Energy returns to maximum and you have –3 Energy Degeneration. You have +0…10 armor and +10…100 maximum health. All enchantments, stances, and echoes upon you are removed and can not be applied. Your attributes are set to 0. Bear attacks replace your skills. This skill ends when your Energy Drops to 0. Recharge: 60 seconds. Cast time: 2 Seconds. Energy Cost: 15

There is just way too much armor and health gain. The energy degeneration is not enough. And the energy gain should be tossed. Any Ursan with half a brain still functioning used Zealous weapons to get more energy when they hit at no downside anyways, so they’ll still gain some energy when they hit. The enchantments, stances and echoes have to go. And the attributes as well. The recharge, cast time, and energy cost is comparable to the normal Elite Forms. But since I trashed the energy gain, Ursan recharges fast as a balance since it can’t be kept up as long as a Elite Form with little energy gain. I mean, it’s just a screwed up skill that should never of made it into this game, let alone last this long un-nerfed. It need radical changes, and it will upset the farmers. But it really has to be done. Kind of like how Ford pardoned Nixon. You just have to do it, you’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. Players are going to be bad at you no matter what you do, at least preserve the game play in the process.

Game Popularity and Diversity

I remember bringing the issue up with Gaile. Her response (not exactly) was along the lines of, "Some people say it's great, some people say it's bad." Of course, everyone who loves to basically not play the game (not use any skills other than Ursan or skills to help ursan) and not do anything but farm for money don't care about balance. All they care about is their money, and I'm sure they are praying for a buff on Ursan to make it so it's easier. On the other hand, there are the people who wish to preserve the balance, like myself, who value more about the gameplay than the money. Along with me, are all the people who don't have GWEN or Nightfall, and can't get in those groups. Sure, you want them to buy the game, because that gives you money, but how do they feel? They feel scammed that they bought Prophecies or Factions, and can't play it with other humans because it's Ursan this, Healer's Boon that. How would you feel if you bought a game and everyone wanted you to do one thing and that thing only, and you could only play that part of the game? And go figure, that made the game boring, and so simple that Solitaire is more diverse.

Conclusion (congradulations, you made it through reading all this!)

I want to walk into Temple of Ages, and see a group, looking for anything, ANYTHING other than Ursan. I want to go to Dzagonur Bastion, and see a group, looking for something, something not Ursan. And you can eat your shorts if you think that Volfen and Raven blessing won’t get overplayed if Ursan gets nerfed. And I don’t know the intensity of those skills, because they are not on half of the skill bars in Guild Wars like Ursan is, but I’m sure they will become very popular with a nerf to Ursan. So they need a tone down as well, not as severe, because they are not as overkill as Ursan.

If I could, trust me I would, I would sit down with the people of Anet, and show them, and explain to them, just what this skill is doing to the game. Every day Ursan becomes more and more of a REQUIREMENT to play this game. You either have Ursan Blessing to be Ursan, or you have Healer’s Boon to heal Ursans, other than that, good luck finding a group to do things, let alone elite areas.

Thanks for your time for reading that. I pray it inspires people to take action. I really welcome Anet to talk about this and solutions, and if Anet doesn't believe a solution is needed, I would like to intelligently discuss why or why not. Please, if you have any questions, say them here in a respectful manner. --Toroxus 13:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Let's not forget the fact that some people have worked hard for their titles, tormented weapons, and whatever else have you long before Ursan made it so everyone and their mother could get them. Working at unique builds to vanquish that last area. Saving up for that last Titan Gemstone. Finding creative solutions to deal with Duncan's Defense and the swarm of spirit's he's surrounded by. None of that matters anymore, because it can be substituted by a few days of title grinding (and escaping the grind, if memory serves, was the whole reason many of us started playing this game to begin with!). It cheapens their value not only in the economy, but in the minds of players who actually remember having to work hard to achieve those rewards. Yes, the most common counter-argument argument to this is "well, it would have happened anyway," but not nearly as quickly as it would have if Ursan didn't exist. Those who came before feel cheated, plain and simple, and many on the verge of quitting. And to think it would all be fixed if we were able to play our own professions again. --SoraMitsukai 16:53, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree with both what Toroxus and SoraMitsukai have said here. It has become a game where there is really no point in even having a character class at all. And all the hard work that people put in before EotN came out is basically pointless, all a person has to do is slap on their Ursan skill, grind up to a nice high rank, form a party, get a bunch of con-sets, and whisk their way through every single part of the game. Now you know for a fact that if Ursan were in PvP, it would be considered unbalanced. Let's also not forget that Ursan, Raven, and Volfen were already modified for being "too powerful" before, changed to touch skills. It isn't as simple as just "You don't like it, don't use it." I never use it, I don't even bother with Norn rank. But finding a party of people who will take you when you aren't using Ursan is like looking for a needle in a haystack. Good job. Guild Wars is real fun now. Grind, get title, play the same build as everyone else. §Azhure Sun Soar 02:51, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Zealous

zealous weapons make these a lot easier, you can attack normally and get 2 energy per attack, helping when you start to run low, i used a bow as my ranger and it helped me keep it up when i was too far from an enemy... yeah thought i might add that--Vhalantru 03:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Should transform the user into a bear

It looks a bit lame to break through fortifications in human form. --Longasc 20:12, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Cheap. It's a shitty skill anyway, could have be decent with transformation, just for fun. As it is, it's not even whort to do the quest to have it. --213.140.6.120 18:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Blessings are shit ----InfestedHydralisk 19:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

It's odd too, considering the models for a bear, wolf, and raven are already in the game as pets. And the mechanic for transforming our character into something else is already in the game as seen in polymock. Should have been a no-brainer. Bcstingg 13:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Sad... This skill is very useful on a melee ranger equiped with a dagger or axe / shield combo and the only comments here are the skills are not worth going after ? Pfft !! I have been using my ranger ( beast master ) with this skill on his bar for a few days now and after looking into a few things it's a very useful skill. It lacks healing and the energy degen is easily handled in the course of battle unless you aggro the entire map but if you do that well.... you deserve to die. With that being said here's a bit of added information. The Birthday cup cake will add to life while using this skill, possible to hit over 1 K in life this way. I would also suggest if you use this skill to have a set of armor done up for melee. Add as much life as possible through runes and upgrading items. I have tried using this skill with ranged weapons but it's in no way designed for that. All of your skills are designed for close combat and I have no doubt any caster using the skills since the AI targets them first would be ate to pcs using this skill so perhaps that is why some are shying away from this skill. However you will see this as a template for a set up on my ranger without a doubt. High damage skills, AOE interupt, IAS boast, what's not to like ? The draw backs and down sides are far out weighed.

Oh if you want an initial healing buff cast predatory bond on your pet and you'll have a little healing for any initial conflict and the pet will also help add another tank to the fray. Be happy to discuss the skill and other ways of using it with others. Should a section be added to the article page with tips on using this skill ? Like the zealous mods and other things players are finding out ? Stalking Feathers 16:08, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

this skill is the best, i just cleared out varajar fells and got a total of about 6k norn rep, from about 19,500 to 24,945 even got a few golds71.222.33.46 08:53, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

I thought about this. It does not make sense to transform into a bear - you only have the Ursan Blessing - you aren't a norn. — Skuld 22:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

It would only make the skill cooler, that's all :P ----InfestedHydralisk 22:36, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

But making no sense. — Skuld 12:01, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

For the very few roleplayers out there it'd be neat. While the "you aren't a norn" arguement makes sense, I'd still use it. Vanguard 12:07, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Wrong, if anyone, the roleplayers wouldn't like it if you turned into a bear, because it doesn't make sense! — Skuld 12:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Some wouldn't use it then? What's wrong with some people roleplaying a Norn? Vanguard 12:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I offer you a slice of pie to hush :p — Skuld 15:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't take and kindly await your answer. Might not make sense in the longrun but that opening shouldn't be shut off. Vanguard 20:21, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

YM is a norn. -Auron 20:52, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Say you were a D/Me with an avatar and Arcane Mimicry. Get Ursan Blessing from an ally, use the avatar then the blessing, when the blessing ends does the avatar start recharging normally or is it still bound to the 120 second disable? --76.2.20.255 07:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no "120 second disable" in pve : Eternal Aura. Chriskang 13:12, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a bit late to reply to this, but Eternal Aura works for dervish skills. UB is not a dervish skill.- Vanguard 16:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

they were talking about avatar's disable. NUKLEAR IIV 10:31, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Screenshot

Request screenshot. --Voidvector 15:30, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Just type "Ursan Blessing". It doesn't change you at all. What kind of screenshot do you need? Vanguard 15:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I think that's all we were curious about, the fact it totally changes you skill set it gives the impression it is a complete disguise-like form, like playing Gwen in the bonus pack, or roller beetle in racing; I was under the impression you physically turned into a bear and thus gained bear-related attacked. --85.62.18.3 18:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I think they're saving the "turn into a bear" aspect till gw2. They made a big deal about how its the special thing that Norns can do. Sadie2k 20:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Arcane Mimicry

Though this skill isn't listed as a form(you don't change form, of course). You can't Mimicry it. I have to check if the lightbringer elite can be subject to Mimicry, which would mean PvE skills can't be copied. 65.23.232.115 03:30, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah you can. Two in my party did in UW. Calor — talk 03:58, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

you can mimic this. jsut have to do it before someone uses it. if u try after its not on there bar. -TehBuG-

you can mimic it but it doesn't seem you can use it. you may have to actually own EoTN to be able to use the mimicked skill.

Explanation

Can someone explain how this skill worked with the bonders? SystemisFlawed

Heh it doesn't. Not sure which way you mean, so I'll explain both. If you are a bonder, and use Ursan; you drop all your enchants on other people. If you are being bonded, go into Ursan; you lose the bond, but can still be re-bonded as an Ursan.

Ursan Blessing and Celestial Skill

Someone reported on GWO he had Ursan on his skillbar then he accepted a Celestial skill in Cantha. He went into an Ursan form and when he got out of it, his Celestial skill disappeared from the skillbar. Have anybody else noticed this as well? If so, should this be considered a bug? Barinthus 12:01, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Never mind, a guildie confirmed this hence the bug report Barinthus 16:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

This also happens in the Nundu Bay mission with the Vial of Purified Water. You do have the option of running back to Elder Jonah to get the skill once again after the blessing wears off. - Cstrabley 04:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Just a wandering traveller....

Hiya, Just started this sentence and almost gotta end it lol, a little busy but I feel the need for this. I'm not going to be long in saying this because I don't want to bore anyone more than I need to =) I'm a 75% Ursan player, I play it a lot, acctually so often I feel like I'm not even aware of what im doing, lol. Ursan pretty much has been overdone, and PvE does need to be put back into perspective and Hard Mode to acctually be hard again :) I liked the older days where we would go into FoW randomway, hey most of the time we died, but hey? wasn't it fun? If you can please make a tiny change to Ursan, I would be compellingly in your debt.

I just want to be heard just this once because I care for the GW community as all of you lot do. :)

Thanks for listening, and have fun. =)

Note to add.

It should be noted that Succor does not work either for adding back energy degen.

Symbiotic Bond Synergy

I tried norn farming with Symbiotic Bond, Ursan Blessing, and a pet. Because Symbiotic Bond was a shout, it wasn't removed and worked great. Should synergy with ranger shouts also be mentioned in the article? Disgruntled Celery 03:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

You could just mention something about shouts in general.- Vanguard 15:23, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Nerf plz

I disagree this skill should never be nerfed as it has opened a new door for just about every player in the game to get into any mission or area. It's also a fast way to play for those of us with very little time to play with to begin with. To nerf this would be to destroy 75% or more of the player base's ability to get into groups that are actually using this skill. So, please leave it like it is and do not listen to the leet/elitist players who don't like it because it has brought most all of the prices down in GW and that is what we needed. :)

---

This skill shouldn't be nerfed to oblivion it has taken away the need to think whan playing Gw. hit 1....1....3....1....3....1 etc. and you can comeple every eliete mision.It takes away every need for a Balanced group. when i go the DoA all i see is glf ursans and monks, glf ursans and monks !!!!! bofore their was a place for most professions in eliete missions but now... viable changes: - remove enrg degen and put a time limit on it - make knockdown conditional - reduce damage anyway u want make it so you cant complete every agea in the game with NO effort The Golden Arrow 17:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

This needs to be hit with a Nerf bat! It is demanded by farming teams and not that fun to play. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.58.10.221 (talk).

For gods sake, nerf this. Bottom line: this takes away one of the great things about GW - the team interplay and looking for skill synergies between different classes. I see mesmers and monks out there wanting to play ursan. The total number of builds being used has fallen by 80%. The game has become boring. The only question is why: why didn't A-NET nerf this months ago?

After watching a lot of group requests lately i must say... Does all this "ZOMG NERF PLZ KTHXBYE" has anything to do with the fact that you can only get groups now if you are r8 or higher? I am pretty sure it's more of a "i am only r5 and i don't want to grind" problem than a "overpowered skill" matter. The thing is, PvP skill balance screwed a lot of the PvE balance of players v/s mobs, and skills as these are needed now to compensate. I doubt that Anet plans to nerf Ursan in the short term, at least no until they stop their "PvP-GvG balance".--Fighterdoken 18:00, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

No imo. Allows my Mesmer to do DoA, need I say more. 61.69.196.118 09:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, seeing as that's a terrible reason to keep this skill in a game where playing your profession well is the whole point. You are no longer playing a mesmer if all you're doing is popping UB up and cspacing. -Auron 09:49, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

This skill allows certain professions the opportunity to get into areas where player prejudiced would normally prevent them from finding a party. Yes it is a boring and uninteresting way to play, but you get groups demanding you take certain skill bars in all elite areas. Ever tried to get in a Slaver's Exile group as an Ele without taking Savannah Heat, Meteor shower and arcane echo? The cookie-cutter tank/nuke/heal style of play is just as dumb and boring as using Ursans, at least now it is obvious which players just want to get the content done, and which value a bit more creativity and imagination in their selection of skills. I hope all those players complaining about Ursans designed their own novel skill bars staying clear of the cliche skills/builds, and regularly invite Paragons, Mesmers and Assassins to join them in the hardest areas of the game. Jbuk 11:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Have I tried getting into Slaver's groups without a cookie-cutter bar? Yes. Mind Blast + Great Dwarf Weapon works wonders, don't you agree?

And aside from that, your entire argument invalidates itself. If you have no problem using a non-class-specific skill which makes any class into the same thing, why do you have a problem with getting on your ele if that's what a group wants? Be less of a hypocrite, especially when defending a skill that defeats the entire point of the profession system. -Auron 13:02, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I just read the line where you insinuate paragons not being the single most imbalanced class in the game. That makes it pretty obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. Ignore my argument, I no longer expect a reasonable response. -Auron 13:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I wholeheartedly agree that this skill needs to be nerfed into oblivion. As far as taking non standard professions in teams to do DOA areas, I have successfully completed DOA with teams including mesmers, rangers, assassins, paragons, and ritualists without the use of UB. We were just patient in testing new builds, and creative in our thinking to find ways to make these teams work. The problem I see is that no one wants to take that time anymore. The fact that these Ursan teams can complete DOA in it's entirety in 3 hrs or less has so unbalanced the values of DOA items AND the cost of the materials needed for consumables it's ridiculous. What is the point? Currently a set of consumables costs more than any of the gems you get, and there are very few items from DOA that are worth anything at all (except for Tormented weapons and Armbraces). If the point of playing UB in DOA is to complete content, then why do people do it over and over? -- Wynthyst 13:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I think a good way to reach a compromise for these skills would be something along the lines of "Only one of each Norn form can be activated at a given time on a group". That way, you could have only one ursan, one raven, one wolf, and the rest are forced to play their classes. But what do i know, i only hero/hench my way through the game :P.--Fighterdoken 17:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

My point was that nerfing a skill into oblivion just because it promotes cookie-cutter play is pointless, since players will just fall back on the next cookie-cutter build and demand everyone uses that in order to get into a party (please note that my arguments refer to the formation of pick-up groups, obviously good active guilds have no need whatsoever for Ursans). At least with Ursan's Blessing all players (regardless of profession) can participate, other cookie-cutter teams are very specific in what professions they will accept. I don't use Ursan's Blessing, I don't like Ursan's Blessing. But my primary character is an elementalist so I can generally get on tank-nuke-heal teams (or whatever is the going trend). Other professions don't have that luxury. People with guilds and friends who can put together a well thought out and organised team (with interesting variations in professions and skills) can just ignore Ursans - no one is forcing them to use it. Casual players who can't call upon reliable teammates who want to visit the harder areas need to form PUGs, and due to the juvenile or elistist attitude of many players this normally means using a cookie-cutter build unavailable to the 'unpopular' professions. I don't like this fact, but the average PUG will kick you immediately if you don't ping a build they like (i.e. is standard googled build). Yes, paragons, assassins, mesmers and non cookie-cutter builds can be (and are) very effective, but you don't stand much chance of explaining that to the average PUG. Ursans provides a way for such professions to get on a PUG, and thus see some nice content they wouldn't get to experience otherwise. Admittedly Ursans is overused, but that is probably better than returning to the days of strong profession discrimination. Jbuk 18:32, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I used to DoA a lot pre-eotn and pre-HM, and people do fail at the whole tank-3 nukers-3 monks-BiP thing (as crazy as it sounds). I've yet to see a group fail Ursaning (unless they were INCREDIBLY stupid). 11:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

But at least the other cookie-cutter builds were innovative at one point. Ursanway requires, literally, one skill on your bar, for six party members in standard farming teams. The rest does itself. At least before, players could actually PUG and, you know, play their profession, instead of being relegated to the role of c-spacing Imbatank every goddamned run. The fact that most demand R8+ isn't even that big of a deal if you turn in books, and although I can see how some would still have a problem with it, I for one don't see it as being the heart of the issue. Bottom line, this desperately needs a nerf, if only for the sake of making those few and far-between PUGs fun again, with an emphasis on actual teamwork (which, ironically, was a major selling-point of the game when it was first released). --SoraMitsukai 00:08, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

For the elite/harder missions, surely all ANet needs to do is have a monster ability along the lines of 'strip creature form' which also disables the skill for a further 60secs (every other skill seems to have a counter including the 55 monks) and/or introduce an environmental effect/spirit which disallow creature forms. Then at least players will have to think about the other 7 skill slots on their bar without totally nerfing the skill.

Mate, I wish you'd have signed that comment, because that's one of the best ideas I've heard in a while. Creative nerf that isn't just number-fiddling, and it'd silence all current VALID protests. KrelusDerian 02:12, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

I like idea, everyone start making support tickets!! Effigy 03:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

rofflelawl 1 ju5t w4nt3d 1i3k n00b5 t0 kn0 t4t l13k ur54n 15 1i3k t3h gh3y. 0k 1'll 5t0p t4lk1ng 1n 13375p34k 50 y0u n3wb5 c4n und3rs74nd.... a-net basically made this for like noobs who like cant comprehend liek how to make skills work together to make a build, or noobs that like rip strats but like dont know how to use a build, they were all like "gg noobs have a pre set skillbar that can tank so you dont die as fast" also this is good cuz i know its hard for a noob without uber micro to like hit so many skills, so the skillset is reduced to liek you mashing 4 skills and thinking your owning...so like newbs like go to doa or fow or uw in like hard thinking they are all like ownage, so now anyone without ursan is like considered lame, however i wanted you noobs to know like that while you are like "zomg i have 1000 health" i am like soloing fow, uw, doa, tombs, sorrows,cof.. ect ect.. in like hard, i can like make 150k a day so gg noobs and keep up good effort with ursan and like trying to keep up with me... oops i almost forgot to sign, cuz i like want u to know whos doing the owning while you ursan newbs are like doing the.... ursan...ing --Arrythmia 02:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

nerf! 57up10 1337 1\10085 (stupid leet noobs) this skill does not need a nerf, this skill, is a crappy skill, i got it cos i saw every was like ursan is so awesome, im like, no heals, slow skill recharge, id say keep it as it is, it suck, i never figure out how to use it, mashing 1..3..1..1..3 is lmao, i mash 1111111111 (crit barrage,) no idea how u can run this without heal, at r10 its 25%dmg reduction, and +200hp; heavy degen, and conditions, will kill you with 3 healer teams >10 sec, only place thats good to run this this urgozs and the deep, needs buff, maybe an equivelent of healing signet,-40 amour 2 sec casting +x..X hp Annoying And Deadly 04:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I run h/h the majority of the time. I only play with a two monk backline. Bedsides that my team runs no self heals other than whatever comes with the henchies. Yet, I just about never die. Sounds like you either suck or your running ursan on a 55 monk. With two monks, ursan is invincible. The recharge on the skill itself doesn't really matter, as ursan is still on the majority of the time. The recharge on the skills that ursan gives you is low, so they can just be spammed mashing your 1-4 keys. Also, because its so good it can be used everywhere with great effect. Really, your entire post was wrong. I hope that was sarcasm (which if you havent noticed, fails on the internet). — Teh Uber Pwnzer 13:28, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Lost all credibility after the first reply, even more after those that follow (and that's disregarding the fact that barely any of it is comprehensible). But, okay, I'll bite. 10 pips of degen = 20dps. Over ten seconds, they've only started to dip into their normal max health, assuming no removal before then. And, what conditions? It's not like Blindness really affects you, seeing as Ursan Strike and Ursan Rage are skills, not attacks, and likewise aren't vulnerable to Daze. If you can't cope with degen under Ursan, you're either drawing too much aggro, need a new monk, or really did try to Ursan with a 55. --SoraMitsukai 00:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

wow thats funny.. but srsly... gg to you uber kyle. "With two monks, ursan is invincible." lmao gg kyle gg... but srsly, with 2 monks healing about 200 health at a time, any 1 can be invincible, including those not using ursan...--13ThirtySeven 23:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Why are you calling me kyle? — Teh Uber Pwnzer 23:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

eh i wouldnt expect you to understand, most people never get it..it just means ur not 1337 enough to watch pure pwnage --13ThirtySeven 00:12, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I think you fail to see what those calling for a nerf are actually saying. 1337? I know many players who own every area of PvE, not one of them use 1337 as its a poor man's term. 203.109.186.49 01:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

lawl.. at least sign ur comments so i can put a name to a newb, and btw i think ursan should be nerfed, because it makes newbs average, and no one wants a noob going around and saying"omfg our ursan way team beat mallyx!(by mashing 4 skills..)lets see you do that!(by mashing 4 skills?) but anyway, what ur failing to comprehend is that even tho an average player may see ursan as imba, i just see it as a way for newbs to actually stand a chance in higher end areas, but meanwhile while they are in groups beating those higher end areas, i can solo fow,tombs,doa,uw,cof,sorrows... and so on, in hardmode. so instead of misunderstanding my meaning and Q_Qing i just wanted you to know the purpose of my comments, ill sum it up. sure ursan is imba(for newbs) sure ursan can make you able to clear doa however there are builds out there and strats that the newbs dont know about mmmmmkaaaayyy?--13ThirtySeven 02:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

If you had actually read the comments thus far, you'd understand that among the major issues is the fact that high-difficulty areas are now painfully easy for those willing to title-grind, which runs completely counter to the (supposed) spirit of the game. The fact that there are other methods that work is irrelevant, when there is one that is universally and strictly better. --SoraMitsukai 07:36, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

i was just pointing out the fact that only noobs seem to use this, if you are a good player who can like solo everything in hard with no probs tehn u will realize that ursan sucks and is epic fail in comparison "universally and strictly better" i dont think so,if you even knew of half of the exploits and builds...you couldnt wrap ur mind around it so "discussing strats that are currently beyond your level of comprehension is pointless"(note not a personal attack just a purepwnage quote lolz)i was just merely expressing my opinion about ursan, while agreeing that it needed a nerf, if you think thats a big deal then... deal with it? btw "high-difficulty areas" rofflelawl this is a mmo, nothing is really hard, its just bringing the right skill combos that matters--13ThirtySeven 20:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

lol no, i just dont like it, i use a 3 monk backline for hm, and im still getting pwned, thats why i swith to a build that can kill a target without skill spamming or health or amour bonus, and i can win, wonder why, only ursan sux, lol, Annoying And Deadly 03:18, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

One more sign to please nerf this crap (though I doubt Arenanet cares anymore). As stated by others, its imbalanced junk that kills the entire profession essence of Guild Wars. Hundreds of skills reduced to a single skill for all professions.. 213.105.215.60 22:17, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Buff other skills to prevent overfarming using ursan, Fingers_of_Chaos for example... --Hachnslay 13:56, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Gaile Said It

Gaile is law! --King Of Kamelott 22:34, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh my God ! Dont say such things Gaile, or I will start loving you ! Yseron, New Gaile Gray Super Fan - 90.28.78.199 20:37, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Gaile; I can't believe that you said that; that is sad. PVE has been ruined by Ursan; and now PVP is in that too.Davadude 17:31, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

you DO know the difference between buff and nerf, right?--Hachnslay 11:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Energy generation wording.

A fellow guild member noticed that the wording for energy generation is wrong on this skill as explained below.

[quote="Demy"][quote="Hellcat"]Your Energy returns to maximum and you have -2 Energy degeneration.[/quote]

[quote="Offical GWW"] Your Energy returns to maximum and you have -2 Energy degeneration[/quote]

The skill itself is worded wrong,

If it was a NEGATVIE (Opposite) two energy degneration (If you have a 1 energy degeneration it would mean move one unit to the negatives.)

Therefore, if you move the opposite of two units (like the skill says) into negatives, the opposite of negative is positive, you should really get a +2 energy generation.

Don't know if all their skills are worded wrong, don't really feel like checking.[/quote]

I beleive it should be fixed as a negative degeneration is a regeneration. Demy 04:44, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I never really understood why they worded a lot of skills like this, but I think they did it to clarify that you lose energy. But I see what you are saying. Effigy 22:53, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

This has got to be a friggin joke...please tell me it is...

So you guys are actually saying that everyone gets to play with this ursan madness?

Okay,assume that your rank is less than...5?

You'll get kicked out of every friggin team there is. basically the only way to get to play now is grinding. Now,everyone doesnt lack a life. meaning they cant spend hours after hours after hours doing something any nab could. >.<.

If you rank less then five then you are pretty much cut from the team, yes. But overall it really doesn't make that much of a difference. It just comes down to people like to see bigger numbers. Maybe the think the skill of a rank 5 is lower than the skill of a rank 8...But then again maybe I just filled a whole bunch of books and handed them in.... P.S. <-----Rank 5 Anyone want to team with me?! Effigy 22:53, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I love this skill

in the mission you first are aloud to use it, after that it just proves to me Arenanet knows nothing about skill balancing or planning... 118.92.12.97 04:41, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

uh, it was supposed to be overpowered, so i guess they know lots then huh? Kypp Duron 12:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

The "it's supposed to be OP" argument is complete and total rubbish. What you mean is, it wasn't intended to be balanced for PvP (hence, PvE only), and was intended to give PvE players a bit of an extra edge in the more difficult areas of the game (bearing in mind the 3-skill restriction), which is hardly the same thing as "lol let's make this OP, it's just PvE." It's this mentality that PvE skills should be horribly broken that's killing the game. If an option is strictly better than all others available for all classes and all difficult areas, through one skill, there's no question that game balance has been destroyed - hardly the goal of any self-respecting game designer. --SoraMitsukai 00:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

The skill you get in the mission isn't actually Ursan Blessing. It's a powered up form so you can complete the mission at rank 0 norn title. But just think, It could have been worse, they could have made it a non-elite skill...Effigy 22:56, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

PvE-only skill change

I was reading the game updates for Tuesday, April 1, 2008 and I was wondering if the change of Ursan blessing from a Pve-Only skill to a non PvE-only skill is true or is just an april fools kinda thing. Please note that i haven't been able to play GW yet to check for my self. Galeron 17:23, 5 April 2008(utc)

April Fools. Lord of all tyria 17:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey Gaile, could you do the PvE Community one big favor...

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Walk up to Izzy, grab a good book on "PvE skill balancing and its effects on the game", belt him over the head with it and tell him that PvE players are still waiting for him, the "Skill Balancer for Arenanet's game Guild Wars", to balance the skill Ursan Blessing, its ripping up PvE and we're getting sick of it. In fact, belt him over the head multiple times just so he gets the point. 118.92.12.97 19:44, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Come on, don't be rude. Yes, most of us agree that UB is unbalanced, but this is PVE. If you don't want to use it, don't. I personally do not use it most of the time. Sometimes, though, it's what helps me get that extra edge when there are no humans around and I have to HH it. I wouldn't want to see it nerfed tbh, and I'm sure im not alone. If it were PvP, that would be different. PvP, while not nessecarily the "best" or the "most important" part of the game ('m a PVE'r all the way myself), has real prize money at stake, and an imbalance in skills has a real effect on players. UB in PWE does not. Its not like the mobs are using it or anthing. (Please don't get any ideas Gaile... if you tell the devs... well lets not go there... =P ) Ashes Of Doom 21:46, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Go to an elite mission/challenge mission/hard mode area/hard mode mission and try and get a group that doesn't use/require Ursan. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 22:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Ashes, I don't use Ursan, primarily as I see it as being unbalanced, in fact the only time I use it is in the mission where you receive it as I have fun smashing the barriers... thats the only part of ursan I like (the mission version). And, I have given up on high end areas when looking for a PUG as I choose not to use it and can't find anyone to party with, FOW, UW, DOA and such places it is to the point now where Ursan becomes the standard and if you don't have it its like PvPing, you can't find a group because your rank is too low for them.

When they introduce a skill, one skill, that fundamentally changes the game and how people play it it needs to be fixed. 118.92.12.97 23:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) On the Prophecies box it says something about how every action you make is based on your skill, not time played. This skill goes completely against that. Step 1: Grind title. Step 2: mash c, 1, 2, 3 and 4, nothing else needs to be done. I see this change as retarded and it makes me think, "will they put something this dumb in GW2?" I am mainly a PvE player, so I'm not sure it would be worth my $50+ with that aspect screwed up so much. I'd bet that there are quite a few people who feel the same as me. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 23:41, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The politically correct way, as beating him with a book might be bad (nice but still bad), perhaps an email or a friendly "Hey man, people are asking..." 118.92.12.97 00:13, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually curious about one thing: is Izzy the only skill balancer, or is there more then one person behind the act? if Izzy is the only one (with all due respect to him), perhaps hiring a second skill balencer for debate purposes would be a good idea. That way there is a little more insight before a skill change is made. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not insulting Izzy's skill balancings (amazingly, considering some others I won't mention). But this is only one opinion here, and having two is always nice in the long run. Just my two cents here. -- Wandering Traveler 00:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Izzy isn't the only skill balancer , I think he's just like the head of the skill balancing team or something--The Forsaken One 00:36, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Again another whiney PvE complaint, and I say the same thing as I say about titles, "If you're more interested in getting a title for glamour than personal achievement, you have much bigger problems than the issue at hand.". Just replacing getting a title with pone-ing PvE. Edit: And I mean that in that it doesn't really matter what happens in PvE, you're just whining because whatever your goal is, is made easier by this skill. So don't use it, if you want the challenge. Tada. Vael Victus 00:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Vael, you are entitled to your opinion and good on you for that. This discussion was directed for Gaile, to see if she could do anything before she leaves her post. Many people have post your "whiney PvE complaint"s in the correct places so people like Izzy can see them, yet little has been done on that end, and as Gaile is seen as the bridge between dev and community she is naturally the place people go to for a little help if others seem to be ignoring issues. In-game economy and skill balance is a big thing at the moment, and looking into Ursans positive and negative effects on the economy, gameplay and balance is needed. And, fyi, I don't use Ursan, I don't choose to use it - I like a challenge. 118.92.12.97 00:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok I don't nessicerily beleive this but : Since Izzy "Cartwrong" messes up PvP so much do you really want him to screw up PvP also!? ok there (BTW Izzy I respect you for taking everybodies crap like this which I don't believe is nessicerily true) --The Forsaken One 01:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Ah, yes, "entitled to your own opinion". A lot of people like to hide they're fact they're wrong by saying that to compensate. But hey - you made a good point. This could affect the economy. Personally I know for the lulz me and some guildies finished one of those torment places as bears, so I suppose I could see where you're coming from with that. Is there anyone that can confirm this is really something people are doing to farm easier? I'd imagine the blessing would only be good in a group, but others said they use heroes with it well. Vael Victus 14:49, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't envy Izzy's position, he must - like many other Arenanet employees - deal with a lot of complaints and negative words, but this is his job - the job he signed up for and has taken upon himself (or his team) - and many people are complaining, questioning why and giving suggestions. Some post crudely others responsibly. Ursans effects on the game are very real, it basically comes down to whether his bosses see it as been a positive effect on the game, or negative. Many players are claiming its a negative and many players are waiting on Arenanet to say either "We think Ursan as it is is working as we wanted it to" or "We think Ursan, as the community has shown, requires a change". Forsaken, many people believe Ursan is screwing up PvE, lowering Ursans effect on it by nerfing it won't break PvE... 118.92.12.97 01:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Guys there's a simple solution to this problem: if you don't like Ursan don't use it...--The Forsaken One 15:18, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Shut up. — Skakid 15:26, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

We have explained before that that solution doesn't work. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 15:33, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh for petes sake I'm getting so sick of this... oh, and forsaken, if you actually see this after it was shifted to an absolutely stupid place, your solution is flawed, I don't use it, but its how the skill is abusing almost every elite area of the game, vanquishing, HM missions, elite challenges, etc. Ursan is far too over powered but Arenanet obviously thinks their idea was "so good" 118.92.12.97 20:23, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Whats becoming the standard saying for lack of PvE fixes "If this was in PvP they'd fix it"? 118.92.12.97 21:15, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

If this was PvE it would never have been released. From a mainly PvE player only perspective some of the skill changes have been totally off the wall. But from a PvP perspective it was a godsend.

I think his point was just to say that Ursan has utterly ruined what little community spirit was left in GW after Gaile Grey's "reign". It is a valid point certainly, but it just boils down to a form of God Mode. The bottom line is: If you have skill you play your class, if you suck you just go Ursan. Guild Wars was never meant to be deep, it is just supposed to be fast and brainless fun. PvP has been broken ever since the release of Factions, and the grind for High Levl PvP titles is actually even a little longer than the grind for PvE titles. GW PVP is no longer a game it is just various revisions of the meta-game. It only makes sense that PvE should be ruined too. I doubt Isiah Cartwright or Gaille actually play the game all that much, Ursan is just confirmation of what we have all known forever ....... Guild Wars Rocks and A-Net sucks..... Big Deal .. you should be used to it by now ! =)

Needs a hard nerf

ya rly. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 23:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Would think it, but balancing it doesn't seem to be on Izzy or Arenanet's list of things to do. Sad really. All this talk of gold sellers, banning ips, upsetting the economy and the only thing they seem to be stopping is money traders profitting from it. Now, if Ursan could be linked to real world money traders then I bet Izzy and Arenanet would get off their collective butts to fix it... 118.92.46.25 09:31, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Ugg... I think my eyes are bleeding from all the hate being written about this skill across three or so nerf topics. The PvE skills were not designed to be balanced. That is why they limit you to having three on your skill bars. The power of the Animal Blessings are why Arena Net made them Elites. Yes, Ursan Blessing is more powerful then the other two Blessings since almost all it's skills are always useful. One day we might see this skill taken down to the same level as the other Blessings, but since I've yet to see any change made to any PvE skill, I wouldn't hold your breath on it.--Ryan Galen 15:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

"I've yet to see any change made to any PvE skill" - Seed of Life, "There's Nothing to Fear!", Intensity. Tain 21:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

All horrible changes, Seed Of life now sux, Intensity sux, TNTF is still imba. I lost my trust at the pve department. File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 23:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Better that they absolutely suck than completely overpowered imo. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 05:08, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Effectively what i'm seeing with this skill is players taking a complete lack of interest in any other skills and thus pve'rs dont know how to play their classes any more. Ursan Blessing effectively has destroyed the essence of Guild Wars. A simple nerf by maybe... making it so the skill can only be used in Norn areas would slighly fix this problem.

This skill which is acquired as a reward for the lamest quest in the entire game, has effectively ruined all elite PvE play in this game. It does two things... it keeps bad players bad, and makes good players lazy. Of course it won't get nerfed not because it's PvE only, though that is part of it, but because it's the best marketing tool ANet has for selling GW:EN. Any player wishing to have any chance of completing the once elite areas of this game with anything other than a guild/alliance group has to be at least a rnk 8 Ursan. -- Wynthyst 10:14, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Good or bad players don't really exist in PvE. That's a PvP only category. And of all those Elite areas that are mentioned here, only DoA and maybe (prolly not) Deep and Urgoz are somewhat of a challenge, everything else is piss easy no matter what you're playing. The only thing Ursan really does is shorten the amount of time needed to do something (and actually the real speedup - and the real problem in PvE - are the consumables).78.2.28.5 20:55, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Sadly enough, good or bad players need to exist, or we have pointless pve. -- nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 21:12, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Well yeah that was kind of my point, PvE in GW (and most other games I've played) is pointless since it has no real way of comparing the accomplishments of different players (and titles don't count, even if there was no Ursan, they wouldn't count). The only real reason behind PvE is to finish the missions, quests, areas that you fancy. 78.2.28.5 21:39, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

It is possible for PvE to have a point. But, not the way GW has it. -- nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 22:41, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure which games you are playing, but to say there is no point to PvE in an MMORPG is ...... absurd. PvE teams are the backbone of the social community in GW, and in other games. PvE is what brings players into the game. The point of PvE is enjoymnet. The point of an MMORPG is to have real people playing alongside you. I am not sure why you feel that PvE titles are so cheap. PvP titles are really not any different, they are also nothing more than a grind. The setting is just different. The meta has ensured that actual skill will not be rewarded in a way that is greater than simply spending time playing.... Cheapening the Pve titles simply ensures that the PvE community will never evolve. It also means that PvE players who have already evolved will have no reason to continue playing; why spend 3 years working hard to get a prmotion or some recognition if the boss is going to promote those who did nothing right alongside of you.............?

PvE balancing

Not really the place for this topic but here goes anyway. Balancing does not mean nerfing

Starting with Ursan there have been many many complaints and my complaint isn't that its imba witch it defiantly is, but that before Ursan (this has been said before on this page) there were only 4 profesions that could go to any elite areas monk, war, necro, and ele, i know this because i tried for 3 hours to get a group on either my rit derv or sin. Someone actually said while i was on my rit rits are not wanted here at all so leave.

Because of PvP "balancing" PvE is getting extremely hard to play. an example when Pious assault was changed from instant recharge to deep wound i almost had to scrap my entire dervish build a build that HHed all 3 campains and most of GW:EN before the skill was changed.

it is impossible to balance PvE for all classes while keeping PvP "balanced" thus the need for a universal skill for all professions in PvE i don't feel like beating a game and trying to go to an elite area just to find out i have to make a new character to do something that is challenging. They could balance it by making skills have different effects in PvE and PvP but that would be alot of hard work and would be kind of ridiculous to even imagine.

One final note if they were going to make DoA farmable they would have henchies there. and as always feel free to rip at my comment all you want this is just my opinion and To Each His Own.

Tenri 21:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

But tenri, does all classes need to be playable? Hells yeah. Does all classes deserve to get a "free pass to mallyx" card? No. Balancing in this case is, sadly enough, nerfing. Ursan in not good for pve. Ursan turned pve into a JOKE: That's about the worst thing that can happen to any game. When one aspect of the game s just... a joke. -- nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 11:15, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Balance in PvE : Setting the level of difficulty according to expectations of the player for that area who's expectations are based on their progression so far. A good game (if you like challenge) has increasing levels of difficulty, something that Ursan has taken away, therefore IMO removing the balance in PvE completely. I wish it felt that Izzy cared about PvE as much as he works so hard to balance PvP, it seems that PvE as far as skill and how it affects the meta is concerned is just a poor cousin to PvP, sad when you think about how many hundreds and thousands of PvE players there are. Many are happy with the ease and so called end to 'class discrimination' that UB brings- does it end class discrimination? As long as your a bear no, it just creates a new kind of PuG discrimination. PvE only skills shouldn't be overpowered, GW was about skill and effective synergy in the skillbar in BOTH sides of the game, the longer you leave the PvE side feeling un cared for and definately out of balance the more likely that players (like me) who enjoy challenge move away from GW with alot less love for Anet than we had before.--Evil Geek 22:02, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I liked the elite areas of the game before Ursan, only been in a few a couple of times and got my butt handed to me cos I wasn't prepared. So, before I try again I have to think my builds through for me and my heroes. Now with Ursan there is no thinking, and the only preparation is to make sure you have at least 4-5 high level ursan users and 3 HB monks, or monks of variation. Arenanet will NEVER be able to balance Guild Wars, never. You can't balance it because there are two games PvP and PvE to Guild Wars and skills are directly related to both. Two different styles of game, one set of skills... whoever thought balance could come from that needs their head read. PvE only skills can be fun, but I like most because they: mix it up a little, have a little bit (for the most part) of cross-profession-blending (My Dervish can now hex) and they've got quests so you have to earn them (which I like - content over buying). There are however some that are far to overpowering, and Ursan is their King.

Sadly, I have come to expect such behavior/attitude from Arenanet, I brought Guild Wars for the story mode, I didn't buy it for PvP which I stick clear of for the most part, but am forced to except that PvP will alter my PvE game, usually a negative than a positive. I no longer expect Arenanet: Izzy in particular to do anything, but for the most part I consider the game's heads lacking. But, this is what I know come to expect from Arenanet. Will this change? Depends, will they fix PvE? 203.109.186.49 01:03, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I am 100% behind the belief that balance in both pvp and pve can be achieved. PvP is already good, and PvE would be balanced if it was more PvPish - random spawns, undetermined bars, A LITTLE LESS BLOCKHEAD MHENLO'S, broken shit existing to counter other broken shit, a little less ursan, no pve skills less title grinding etc. - they are all possible. But Anet has taken the easy roads, so... no. Let's hope they won't fuck up GW2. -- nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 11:16, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I havent been paying close enough atention to my own post even tho im on this page every day. in response to some things i agree all classes should be able to go to elite areas all classes should be equal but remember each class has its own "Job" in a team and in most areas people don't like/want the "Job" that certain classes do, playing into elitist attitude

balancing both PvP and PvE is hard because they are two very different types of combat. in PvE you are almost always outnumbered and need to be able to counter that event, while in PvP numbers should always be even. with that in mind you cant boost skills to let one guy take on 3 in PvE because then PvP becomes incredibly imba, that was what i believe the reasoning behind ursan blessing was.

while writing that i just realized the best way to counter ursan being used in elite areas. PvE only skills cannont be used in elite areas, like a pvp zone.

Now Nuke you are right Ursan is bad but all the PvP balancing killed my non Ursan build that could have done some of the elite areas. and to make PvE more PvPish you must find a way to make it hard without having 8 on 20 and without making godly monster AI for even 8 on 8.

Once more feel free to rip i will be paying more attention to this part of the talk page. Tenri 04:27, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Balancing PvE 101 - Make new monster skills that counter with the skills you want to balance. This will leave PvP untouched. Simple. Easy. Effective. Effigy 03:59, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Quite right never thought of that but i dont know if they wanna come up with a bunch of new skills and witch monsters to add them too as they skills will also need to make sense probably. Tenri 21:42, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't know why Ursan should be disallowed in PvP......... PvP has this leet little aura around it, but in truth, in guild wars, all PvP titles are is a different type of grind, it is the meta game , not player skill that determines who wins and loses. Sadly the same is now true of PvE titles, they don't really show who plays well anymore, just who put in the most time. Adding Ursan to PvP WOULD certainly force the meta into the "everyone is Ursan" mentality, but, that would do 2 things that are GOOD for gamers, 1: It would make the grind to High level PvP titles shorter and 2: it would spite the meta. Regardless, since ursan was released you can bet your sweet behind the PvE community outside of the elite zones is about to die. Oh well, I still have guildies to play with.......

Ok if people will look at my first post in this section of the page looks like my idea is being implemented i like but i don't envy who's job it will be to set it all up and i do not take credit for the change just find it interesting that it is being done. Tenri 21:45, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Since the April tournament update

I've been having a problem with Ursan blessing. Randomly, my ursan strike and rage skills do zero damage an enemy. this happened in all three of the Asura missions, against destroyers, golems, and just about any enemy that came in groups. Any idea whats going on? this is all since that last update -Kumdori-160.23.244.253 09:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Are you sure this isn't due to Gadd using Iron Mist? Yu Takami 16:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Welcome to PVP; now you will be OWNED by Ursan

Ursan is now no longer a PVP only skill; I must say; Ursan has ruined PVE; and now PVP is on its way. I wish Regina or some GW staff could see this, Ursan have really ruined the game. Davadude 17:26, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

pvp ursan never happened. it was an april fools joke. Laserblasto! 05:29, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

i'd like to see it there temporarily, then it'll finally get a nerf two days later —ZerphaThe Improver 21:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

That, or people would realize how really useful a melee-only skill is in pvp when your opponent can snare/kite the hell out of you.--Fighterdoken 21:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

also true. But it bothers me that the most dumb yet toughest build is by using a skill bar that could contain seven empty skill slots and Ursan Blessing. Thanks to the monster AI, Ursan Blessing makes most titles nearly useless, yet making a good working pve build isn't that hard anyways. It saddens me that Anet doesn't realize that PvE also needs balancing. —ZerphaThe Improver 21:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I think this has been said over and over, but the real problem is not Ursan, but what ursan is used with. Making it so that no "consumable effects" can be used with a form, by example, could solve some problems. Also, making it so that only one of each form can be used at the same time in a group could fix other issues. There are several ways to fix the PvE abuse of this skill without having to touch the skill itself (so you don't end affecting h/h players like me XD).--Fighterdoken 21:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

The problem with that is, some forms are legit strategies (Avatar of Lyssa, et. al.). Cons do need to be nerfed; they should be helpful, but not to the degree that they make PvE a joke. --SoraMitsukai 18:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I laughed at first, then cried when the realization hit that you're 100% right. --SoraMitsukai 18:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

No. The problem is ursan. It turns any motherfucker into a 3-hit killers. That does not work well in PvE. -- NUKLEAR IIV 20:24, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

To clarify, I meant the problem with preventing cons from affecting players who are in a form, is that other forms would be hit (indirectly) with the nerf bat. Cons are still a problem, but as I've said above numerous times, I do agree that Ursan needs a nerf. But as other people have suggested, this won't happen, simply because it's bringing ANet too much money right now. Maybe when the game is truly on it's last legs, we'll see a change. --SoraMitsukai 20:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't nerf forms, just nuke ursan. simple. Fixed. -- NUKLEAR IIV 12:07, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

You won't see a change to Ursan even on the games last legs for two reasons. By then Guild Wars 2 will be out, or in the works of being released. And second can any one here tell me of one other PvE skill that has been nerfed before. Albeit Ursan is the only one that is truly broken beyond comprehension, there are still some skills that could be toned down a little bit example: pain inverter. Effigy 22:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Ursan, Raven, and Volfen HAVE been hit before, and so have Seed of Life and There's Nothing to Fear!, if I recall correctly. PvE skills are NOT immune to the nerf bat.§Azhure Sun Soar 02:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Ursan Blessing

Ursan Blessing [E]-Description: Your energy is returned to max and you gain 2 energy each time you deal damage. Your strategy and originality attributes are reduced to 0, and your button mashing and grinding attributes are raised by 1...12. (This skill has an unwritten side effect of ruining elite PvE). =P-Warior Kronos 17:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Lolz. Yeah, too bad all and every elite PvE-missions and -areas are now actually accessible by Ursans only, cause you won't find any non-Ursan teams anymore. I really miss the times when Guild Wars had something like different Professions. Now all players share the same skillbar, reducing the total number of available skills from 1319 to 5. My god, how do I miss the times when players used to use some of the other 1314 skills... --Xer 09:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Do you people not play in guilds if you do and if they are that epix hungry that they wont alow people to use whatever build they want then they arnt a real guild there have always been the must have builds for example for a long time it was imposible to do uw as a ranger if you wernt a trapper someone will come up with a better build although i have ursan i quite regularly dont use it because i feel my builds are better and more flexable in ursan your so limited its untrue oh and read this How to Stop Whining in 4 Easy Steps--Demonthorn 18:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

That is about the most offensive link I ever saw. Second, you run on sentence of a comment is, in all honesty, epic shit. It has been said numerous times why the "don't use it if u leik it" argument doesn't work. Pls read the wall of text above and comeback. -- NUKLEAR IIV 19:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Putting the fact that I think Nuclear is completely right aside, I think you may have missed the point. Not everyone is a part of a large, active guild - in fact, I believe the majority aren't. These people actually have to (or maybe even want to, being sick of H/Hing everything) PUG every now and then. And nowadays, you can't PUG without being R8+ Usran. So, if you want to PUG, you have to title grind, which is just flat-out asinine. Yes, there are better builds, but those builds aren't seeing any use, or even being looked for (for instance, even as a Swap/SV, there have been times where I can't find a Duncan group, because everyone else is running Ursan). You know why that is? Ursan is easy to the point of being mindless. Most players think, why spend the effort looking for something very efficient when you have something nearly as good right in front of you? And it's killing the game in so many ways, I'd need to use my toes if I were to count them all. --SoraMitsukai 19:53, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Sora is kinder than I. He gave you a summary of what you'd understand if you'd read the issue. You win 1 cookie Sora. -- NUKLEAR IIV 11:13, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

iv been playing since the betas and one of the most epic of mistakes was the inclusion of item traders after allot of complaing nothing hapened but people just got on with their lives if you dont like change then dont play an mmo or go to WoW where any whining results in an instant nurf and watery gameplay im happy that you have an opinion i just think that this page has more "lets bash Anet" than useful comments. i wont say anymore i dont want a flame war--Demonthorn 15:42, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Whats wrong with items traders?

if you dont like change then dont play an mmo No, we don't like meaningless change that fucks up the gameplay. kthnx.

"lets bash Anet" than useful comments. We will stop complaining the moment anet recognizes there is a problem.

wont say anymore i dont want a flame war' please don't scoot away like that. You started a conversation, finish it. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:59, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I missed something...where is this item trader thing coming from? Whats wrong with item traders...and how is that comparable to Ursan. On another note, a key part of guild wars is using different skills smartly (thus the 8-skill bar). With Ursan, who needs the other 3,000 skills. Just take one. And grind (yet another defiance of the original concept of guild wars...). -Warior Kronos 03:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

And Btw, bud, punctuation is your friend. Those little dots people put at the end of ideas aren't just decoration. -Warior Kronos 04:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Function with skills that require moral boost to recharge

killed a boss today while in ursan form and then changed out to res my pet and my dunkoro and was surprised to see that it hadnt recharged. i dont think this has been mentioned before but its hard to tell with all the whining--Demonthorn 18:33, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

you are right it may be a bug or the fact that none of your normal skills are on your skillbar when the boss dies i have found this out myself while playing in Raisu Palace when my celestial skill did not recharge while in Ursan.

weather this is intentional or not i do not know it may be a way to control ursan and maybe not. Tenri 00:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

That made me think of the good nerf for Ursan. Make it require a morale boost to recharge. Effigy 04:04, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that's the solution, and it can be summed up in two words. Necro Ursan. --SoraMitsukai 04:54, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I dont see how that would matter, there is always times where there is nothing to kill. Ursan will end, the only thing that would do is make necros use it more often. Unlike now when enyone that has atleast one finger can. Effigy 23:06, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

So let me get this straight, you were in Ursan, killed a boss, left Ursan to res and wonder why it hadn't recharged? It was because you were in Ursan when you killed the boss, that skillbar (the secondary skillbar you get when in Ursan) would have been recharged not your profession based skill bar (as it wouldn't be considered loaded and be effected by the boost's effect. Plus that and when you use Totem of Man it triggers the Ursan skill's recharge time to start.

Oh, to the possible idea of making Ursan morale based I doubt it would even be considered, and as much as I don't like using Ursan it would take the possibly fun aspect of the skill away (once they balance it that is) 203.173.242.13 03:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Use an energy+zealous set. I've tried it - with 13 Soul Reaping, you can go through most areas without coming down from Ursan once, as long as your team doesn't decide to take a half-hour nap or something. --SoraMitsukai 07:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Although that may be true about the zealous + energy armor sets here is my take on it. 1)There is always some down time in most zone where there is nothing to be killed. 2)Just because you are Ursan doesn't make you invincible. You can still die. And to the person who said that Totem of Man triggers the recharge, that is because the skill can recharge. I'm sure if it required a morale boost it wouldn't recharge without it. Or if what you state is true, make it require a morale boost recharge, and just get rid of totem. But I don't forcast a nerf to this skill. Effigy 22:43, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

You can still die, yeah. But Ursan+HB makes it stupidly hard to do (you almost have to try), so it's a moot point. And you may be forgetting that Ursans also pack an IMS, so getting from point A to B to kill mob C before energy runs out is hardly an issue, especially when you finish each mob with somewhere around 50, probably higher. You're losing what, .67 energy per second? You have over a minute to get to the next mob. With an IMS, that's not exactly hard. tl;dr, recharge on morale boost won't fix Ursan at all, you'll just see more squishies running it. --SoraMitsukai 04:46, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

"Some at ArenaNet feel that it's too strong. Some feel that it's fine the way it is."

Does anyone else find that a little bit too weird? Some game developers at Arenanet think Ursan is fine the way it is? Am I the only one a little bewildered by this? 203.173.242.13 23:09, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Faith -100. ROFLCOPTER POWER LEVEL: OVER NINE THOUSAAAND! -- NUKLEAR IIV 00:25, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, the guy who designed the skill thinks its fine. Everyone else thinks its too strong haha. -Warior Kronos 03:59, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, might have been a good idea when it started off, but its just awful game design. 203.173.242.13 00:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I think when they made this skill someone closed their eyes and hit the compile button in the game designer... really. Effigy 22:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

If you added Ursan to rock , Paper , Scissors it would become Rock, Paper, Scissors, Nuclear Bomb. I would just love to see Izzy and Regina standing there with a pair of scissors in thier hands, talking about balance when it was my turn........................................