Talk:Wounding Strike

This skill does not deserve to be elite, and was not. Sins have easily accessable dw without sacrificing an elite, as do warriors, wearying strike does not cut it, because you HAVE to run melandru to use it or waste two skill slots. I would like this to either be buffed, or bring it back down to normal status.--72.84.72.113 03:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Being able to inflict deep wound every 3 seconds is a feat that deserves elite status. Even Wearing Strike doesn't allow DW that often. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 03:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Thats bs, warriors have dismember, and can spike with it in a couple of seconds. Don't try to justify this crap.--72.64.46.60 10:53, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, its not even as good as Wearying, that does damage. I would gladly give up a little recharge time for some damage, or just anything to make this as remotely useful as Melandru.--72.64.46.60 11:04, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Probably won't be done due to engine restrictions, but something that would most definitely make this elite is if the Deep Wound effect were the only skill to apply it with 30%-40% max life rather than 20% normally. The number can be negotiated, but I like the idea that the strength doesn't come from more damage (as Reaper's Strike takes care of that) but in the gravity of having a 30-40% Deep Wound on you. Though the duration would have to be shortened quite a bit, and of course it couldn't stack with normal Deep Wound (it would just not take effect if higher % is in effect currently). --Eyekwah 14:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Scythes have higher damage and can strike multiple opponents. You also don't have to build adrenaline. Sins have access to DW, but it's hardly spammable, and with the new Golden Fang Strike you still need to hit with a lead. While it's true that Melandru beats this for most teams in its current form, WS is far from useless. Tycn 12:01, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

I know its far from useless, but for Christs sake, do you really think this beats out something like dismember? The only reason I would like this unelite, is that dervishes do not have a deepwound attack thats clean, I rarely ever see WS and Signet of Malice used. I like the skill, don't get me wrong, but it just seems underpowered at the moment. I agree with you on assassins dw not being totally spammable, but they make up for it with the high damage they can drill out. The scythe has a wide range of damage, like a hammer mixed with an axe, and the multiple hits is usually moot, since not many people will stand around in pvp. I think dismember is superior because even though to have to charge it up(not hard at all), it isnt elite, so it allows for some flexibility, at this moment, Dervishes do not have that flexibility, and its driven me nuts ever since release.--72.64.46.60 17:05, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Bah, Reaper's Sweep....--Raph Talky 01:10, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

skill

but dont forget this also causes bleeding u can infect them both in 3 seconds 4 w/e --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.83.152.240 .

lol yeah, sucks balls --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.61.34.85 .

Thats if you dont use enchantments (which if your a derv you should otherwise your kindav nuts).--Raph Come get ur Ramen Noodles! 02:55, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Add?

Should it be added to the note that another strategy is to strike under the effects of an enchantment, use an enchantment removing skill, and then strike again? It already has the opposite version of events but I find this strategy just as valid... -- Frozzen 02:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Enchantments, this, pious assult, this again. That may work.--Raph Come get ur Ramen Noodles! 22:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Might be a little more useful now since Pious Assault inflicts DW. If you're running an enchants Dervish, you could: Pious Assault -> Wounding Strike -> Enchant yourself, or something that suits yourself. But for some reason, I prefer Reaper's Sweep.--MrDark88 03:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

@mrdark so youre using pious to inflict deep wound and an elite to inflict bleeding?!... 76.26.189.65 20:54, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

@ User:76.26.189.65 -- Nah, it was just a random thought. But since this has been buffed I'll have to test if Reaper's Sweep < Wounding Strike.--MrDark88 22:46, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Strategies

fail hard. This is mostly used as a spike skill on D/A spike callers in HA/TA. I don't see the point of inflicting both bleed and DW with this skill, it's just too cumbersome to cast an ench, use this, rip the ench and then cover.

this skill owns, use this + mystic + ermites , while you got a damage boost (SoH, conjure,.) owns, massive spike.. its spammable and can target up to 3 foes, which make it way better then its non elite variant 84.192.144.207 18:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

update

GJ Anet for the much needed skill balance--Raph Talky 21:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Whoot! Finally, I can take this skill over reapers when I go to TA... aNet you're my hero. For this skill, anyways. =P Silavor 23:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

One of the few good updates of the batch. Not that this skill was bad before, it was excelent, it just makes more sense now. And if bleeding ends up covering deep wound(doubt it), this is amazingly deadly now. 71.31.153.138 00:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Wow... Nice update --Czar 16:17, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

WOOT bleeding covers deep wound!!!! Justing6 23:09, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

by cover u mean they both act or only 1 of them is active?

He means that deep wound is applied first and then bleeding is second. If a monk were to use dismiss condition they would remove bleeding and not deepwound.--Underwood 19:29, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Need to be nerfed back a bit. 3 second deep wound that kills. Even if this is an elite skill, it should be at 6~8 recharge. Lightblade 02:47, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

But that would make it like reapers sweep. It is 3 sec recharge because no bonus damage and requires an enchantment. Still fun because of deep wound and cover condition in one blow. Then again it is even more fun to watch noobs use this with no enchantment. Elite scythe attack for bleeding ftw! Justing6 03:24, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, it needs to be nerfed just a slight tad. Either make the DW trigger after Bleeding, or lengthen the recharge. Upping the cost doesn't seem like a good idea. Saphatorael 12:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I like it just how it is. Finally a dervish skill that's good in PvE, and not an avatar. Nerfing this for PvP would be quite strange too, as dervish don't do much in PvP other than damage. We aren't tanks like warriors, or healers like monks, or nukers like elementalists, or debuffers like necros, or shutdown's like mesmers, or multi-purposed support like rangers. We can't do party support like ritualist or paragon. We're a lot like assassins, and this skill is like our moebius strike.

/agree, nice analogy too--Raph Talky 23:44, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, but you're all wrong. This needs a nerf, Deep Wound needs to cover Bleeding and it needs at least 6s recharge (or, they could do the smart thing and nerf the retarted scythe damage, but that's not happening) 69.248.232.88 03:26, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Retarded*--70.69.87.23 01:40, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

• looks at the Devish's argument, well-rendered, 3 comments above* *looks at "I'm sorry, but you're all wrong."* *Almost replies* *decides that he's already embarrassed himself enough* 141.165.171.95 03:10, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

As I said, it doesn't matter who covers who. PvE creatures almost never use condition removal. --71.224.251.179 01:55, 26 April 2010 (UTC)Recon Legend

If this skill get nerved.

I'll ragequit GW and NEVER come back.

Auron Bushi. ok i'll be quick with this one...

Original Wounding Stike= awsome (had no idea it was takeign heat before today. the fact is it is a reliable dw skill that can be used from the get go elite or not this is awsome)

New Wounding Strike= Wiked Awsome (kinda wish they didnt mess with it because now that is even beter it will no doubt be nerfed to the point that it flat out sux. i foresee them changing the nrg cost to 10. and increasing the recharge time to like 15. first off 10 nrg for an attack skill on a dervish is crippling since you must ballance attack and enchants and the 15 second recharge time would make it easily couterable. you use wounding strike they use mending touch and now your out 10 nrg and they actually got a good heal out of it...) Enjoy it while you can boys cause bad time are comeing for this skill... bad times. 70.3.42.28 12:22, 9 March 2008 (UTC) strike hard strike fast every strike first and last!

Tbh, I agree with your "prediction" of a skill change. However, I doubt it will be quite as devestating as you think. For the most part, even if this skill was nerfed badly, not many would grieve over it. It is, sadly, one of the many dervish elites that falls short of what players expect in comparison to avatars. However, about your comment on the original version, it really wasn't taking that much "heat", it was just somewhat inferior to other skills; especially after pious assualt was granted deep wound capabilities. Personally, I want avatars to get nerfed. It's pathetic to see the GW community spam the same, dry avatar build, and then proclaim in All Chat "Haha! i pwn u n00b bc im 1337 4 using avatars!" I want to see other dervish elites used, and new dervish builds created. I think it's somewhat sad that dervishes were reduced to a no creativity proffesion. But, I do understand. "Got lemons? Make lemonade." Yes, it is true we were granted an extremely powerful proffesion with powerful elite avatar skills. But this doesnt mean we cant branch out a bit. 24.176.98.38 02:58, 19 March 2008 (UTC) Gabe

Yeah, problem always was with this skill that it never did any +damage, it's about as useful as spamming dismember when you had eviscerate, Pious assault and Reaper's sweep actually scoring you the kills. --Ckal Ktak 19:15, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes I realize I’m a bit late. But to be honest I always thought that WS was an awesome skill, Reapers Sweep recharge time killed it IMO. the Scythe is too much like an axe, as I’ve said the axe is (was) the only weapon were you could hit something and do 30 DMG then us an attack skill that does +30 DMG and still do 30 DMG, because of the WIDE DMG range the scythe (and axe) has, the +40 DMG rarely payed off unless it was an ever elusive Crit. but WS made it so that even your normal attack were a deadly threat because they were now subject to DW straight from the get go. It didn’t need DMG. The community is so focused on making that perfect "Impossible 1 Hit Kill” that they failed to see the most obvious thing about the skill. Combos! In classic Axe fashion first the DW then the Kill. And for once a fighter class could easily spam a condition other than poison. Don’t get me wrong applying pressure via conditions is what fighter classes do best but you could hardly call it a spam. And now here we are sometime in the future and I’m almost glad that people fail see the beauty of this skill. Amazingly it hasn’t been nerfed! Huzzah! It just might be around to stay! Bleeding plus Deep wound in a single strike! On the first strike! This is the whole concept behind sword combos, bleed+DW+ a Lil DMG=Corpses! And now it’s been brought to the scythe. Which let’s face it, had nothing to boast save for DMG and it couldn't dependably dish out said damage, the hammer however could, and the hammer had KD. In fact the best constant DMG pressure option for the scythe was the pre-change (yeah let’s leave it at change instead of Nerf or Buff, I really don’t feel like ranting about this one right now) pious assault which at the sacrifice of enchantments augmented you DMG. (Was this not the basis behind the scythe and scythe mastery skills to begin with?)

173.116.194.15 19:35, 25 November 2008 (UTC)Auron Bushi

Avatars are not overused and mostly in pvp dervishes rely on another elite. If anything I would like to see fire elementals nerfed because it is so boring seeing the same elementalist play the same thing over and over again and since the other magic types are far inferior to the point where players will never use them other than in HA.William Wallace 00:40, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Revert war about epidemic

The synergy is terrible. Epidemic is a bad skill. Wounding Strike bars don't have spots to waste throwing deep wound around when it recharges in 3 seconds anyway. -Auron 14:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Nonetheless, I think there's still some NPA for User:90.7.212.39, from this revert. And by 'we' I mean 'not really me.' It does constitute NPA, right? --Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 15:35, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Uh, probably, but that's not what I was talking about. That kind of discussion goes to sysop who can deal with it. Discussion about what notes should stay or go belongs on this particular talk page. -Auron 17:58, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

its more of a perspective kindav thing, ive seen epidemic spread dazed with BHA, DW with a variety of skills, this would make for a minor spike--Raph Talky 02:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

The skill alone is a minor spike. You don't need epidemic to spread conditions from a skill that recharges in three seconds. -Auron 08:08, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

so? sounds like a condition spam build here.....i also hope that we all realize were talking pvp--Raph Talky 18:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

If you're talking PvP, then epidemic would guaranteed never be taken. You just kinda shot your argument in the foot. -Auron 19:21, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

thats from your opinion, though--Raph Talky 18:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a correct one, supported by experience. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 18:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

i didnt ask you ><...rather, i have seen, to a degree, what you're talking about, but, and i quote "i reject your reality and substitute my own!". I can think of better combos for a derv anyway--Raph Talky 18:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Its a wiki, if someone wants to comment because someone else is wrong, then they can. Lord of all tyria 19:00, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

you realize i was jking on the first part, right? dammit does anyone understand the >< and :P smileys anymore?!--Raph Talky 19:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

">.<" = Frustration not joking. :P does, but I don't see any instance before on this discussion that you've used that...66.202.1.169 18:58, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

nerf?

wounding strike has a short recharge of 3 sec which makes it spammable on several foes and additionally your scythe targets up to 3 also. The funniest thing is that a conjure derv deales around 100 dmg with each hit every 3 secs if he uses an attack skill. This is devastating on maps like burning isle for instance. So wounding strike makes it possible to spike a target every 3 sec (if your build allows it -> signet mesmers but thats another case..) I dont want his functionality nerfed but the recharge should be like 8 secs.

PS : you can see how devastation this is if you prot a target and they just switch to anotherone cause they can (spike duration usally 1-3 sec)

The recharge should be closer to 12, if not 15. That's about how often Eviscerate charges (on a really good day, with no aegis chains or bsurge). In a fully balanced game, the recharge would be about 20, but I don't think anet would want to nerf it that far. -Auron 19:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

right... spammable, cheap with bleeding covered AoE dw with a premise that's easy to met appears a bit op. —ZerphaThe Improver 20:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Whatever man... Nerf it for PvP all you want, keep it as is for PvE. Besides, any longer a recharge, and this skill wouldn't be worth calling an elite. Oh, and Eviscerate can be recharged rather quickly if you have Cyclone Axe and For Great Justice, and maybe a Furious modded axe. Mesmers with Epidemic, or bringing epidemic yourself (Unlinked, 5 energy, 10s cooldown) can make AoE Bleed and Deep Wound. Paired with an Axe war that can spam those "If target foe is suffering from Deep Wound..." skills, and the skill really shines. This >>>>>>> Reaper's Sweep. --ChristopherRodrigues 22:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed Zerpha. This skill wouldn't be so bad if bleeding didn't cover DW. That makes this tremendously imbalanced.

Dark Fury+Infuriating Heat+An IAS=Spammable Eviscerate 68.50.167.100 17:25, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

thats cool now build a team around that. as opposed to enchant + wounding strike. just naming off random skills to make a spamable eviscerate shows how bad you are at the game.72.177.204.158 18:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The only nerf this needs is a stack swap. Deep Wound + cover condition in one skill is too powerful, especially when highly spammable. <>208.117.81.202 02:06, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

3 seconds is not "highly spammable". Highly spammable is generally 1 second or less recharge. Regular "spammable" is around 2 seconds. --71.224.251.179 02:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)Recon Legend

Buff Plz

This should inflict instant death. Oops, silly me, IT ALREADY DOES. Psychiatric Consultant 22:54, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

uhm....are you trying to troll? or are you just ranting like everyone else?--Raph Talky 23:15, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Ranting, mostly....ok maybe I'm trolling a TINY bit 2. :p Psychiatric Consultant 21:29, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

well, ill assume good faith on this one. Though in hindsight, that is considered trolling. My Rx for the problem, make a ranting user subpage, people read it, sometimes laugh at it, and usually agree with them. Dr.Raph just make a wikicall--Raph Talky 23:22, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

A thought

I think that in order to find out if something is overpowered or not, you need to look at a skill with a similar effect and see how it stacks up. So, let's think about what Wounding Strike does. It instantly inflicts two conditions with a melee attack. This is fairly similar to Crippling Slash. Wounding Strike has a recharge of 3 seconds, and Cripslash has a 6adr cost. In addition, Wounding inflicts deep wound, while Crippling inflicts... cripple. I speak for most people when I say that I'd rather be crippled than deep wounded. So, Wounding Strike is the superior skill. It's more spammable and the conditions it inflicts are more dangerous than those of Crippling Slash. Not only is the effect more potent and more spammable than Cripslash, but it ALSO has the potential of hitting three people at once. This, to me, says, in a completely objective and unbiased way, that this skill is slightly overpowered. All it needs is to be slightly less spammable. A slight increase to the recharge would make this more balanced. A minor nerf, but one that I feel would be necessary and beneficial. Would anyone here happen to agree with me?Krelus Derian 00:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Another nice job at ignoring the obvious and comparing a 2-handed scythe attack versus a 1-handed sword attack. If I was suddenly told that to continue carrying my sword I had to put down my shield, I'd expect the attacks to get more powerful in exchange. -- Inspired to ____ 16:01, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Inspired sush WS is next to ursan and chuck norris proly 1 of the most op things in game if not the most op Lilondra 06:58, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

I believe that a comparison to Eviscerate is probably more accurate than to crippling slash. 206.53.17.64 02:52, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

^ /agree but then you make it to clear WS is OP and izzy might even nerf it Lilondra 09:03, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Izzy will not nerf this. This is because he (and the other imaginary people in the balance "team") buffed it to it's current state. Nerfing it in the way they believe would be fine (which would be completely wrong and ruin the skill while they could just revert it. *coughcough* ) would say that they've made something this overpowered and they can't have that. =\ 66.202.1.169 10:48, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh ... lol Stop asking WS to be nerfed please! Not all nice skills should be nerfed! My point is that dervishes aren't really the class that people wanna use in lets see... DOA,UW,FOW and such elite pve area parties. So i think that dervishes deserve to be owning at PvP with WS+conjure! --Dealey 12:48, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Yh plz dont nerf a skill this broken that chuck norris itself would like to see it banned.I'ts the only way I can win UW and other pve scrub area's despite having SY and such 2.I mean shouldnt i be able to continue sucking because i use these terrible imba skills instead of actually having to adjust to those imba mobs ? Lilondra *gale* 17:27, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Heroes

Do Heroes use this skill well?

The same way players do... --71.224.251.179 02:24, 26 April 2010 (UTC)Recon Legend

Nope, players tend to spread it among enemies, while heroes do not. Spotina Talk 14:47, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Hindsight

Wounding Strike

Mystic Sweep

Crippling Sweep

Attacker's Insight

Heart of Fury

Conjure Flame

Signet of Mystic Speed

Resurrection Signet

That's what I play when I'm serious about creating havoc. Wounding Strike is an awesome skill.

But is it overpowered?

In one regard, Wounding Strike lacks the raw damage-dealing capability of Eviscerate, but is superior in the fact that the deep wound is covered. However, in GvG or HA, Restore Condition not only removes the bleeding and deep wound just as effortlessly as a deep wound alone, but it actually heals for more because of the extra fodder. Now, please don't take this argument to say that I think Wounding Strike is inferior; as I said, I'm a WS Derv. Eviscerate takes more effort to use, but Warriors have means to cover that, such as Enraging Charge. Before we make the "two slots" argument, consider that Wounding Strike needs an enchantment to be effective, while Eviscerate can be just as effective without Enraging Charge. I think a Dervish without Enchantments and a Warrior without adrenaline-building accommodations are comparable.

Now, I did mention Restore Condition, which is staple on GvG teams. However, it's typically on the Protection Prayers monk, and as such, is consuming the energy of one of the team's most vital players. Spamming RC is expensive, and WS Dervs have the capacity to force RC Monks into doing that. Not only is energy management a problem, but also consider that a Domination Mesmer can easily land a Diversion or Shame on a spell that's being spammed (ah, but could a Mesmer not do the same to a spammed Wounding Strike?). Of course, the monk has the option to not counter WS, but then things die. Eviscerate can't pressure on that level; it's far more spike oriented.

One of the things I've come across as a Wounding Strike Dervish is enchantment stripping. Which makes me very unhappy. No enchants = my elite causes... bleeding. It's unpleasant. Eviscerate doesn't have that problem. I mean, sure, someone could put Soothing Images on you, but really, when have you ever seen that?

Wounding Strike is awesome in its niche, but so is every other decent melee elite. I think it's not that this skill needs a nerf; it does what it's supposed to do. I think the skills that don't do what they're supposed to need a buff. This skill is hella good, but I definitely don't think it needs a nerf.

However. I'm very biased on this skill, because I think that I (being a Wounding Strike Dervish) should be able to pwn harder. One of my personal grievances with this skill is that, after the first Wounding Strike, subsequent ones do nothing at all. So of course you can move to a different target, but that shouldn't be necessitated by the skill's function.

• I think that additional damage on the level of Crippling Victory still wouldn't put this in the OP range: it's there so it's better than a normal attack, which is exactly what this becomes on hit #2 (except there isn't a hit number two because an auto attack does the same thing for five less energy).
• I would love to see Cripple added to this skill's effect, perhaps if it applied cripple to targets suffering from a deep wound. Or, even the other way around: Cripple -> Bleeding + Deep Wound. But I do think that that would be pushing this skill toward the OP range. Perhaps more viable would be to Cripple moving foes, or even moving foes suffering from a Deep Wound.
• Another thing that would make this decidedly more useful subsequently would be the addition of an activation time. Because even if it's not doing extra damage, a faster scythe attack is always a better one.

I'm not in any way saying that this skill isn't powerful enough, I'm just addressing one of my (again) personal grievances with the skill.

All in all, I think Wounding Strike is a great skill. As should all elite skills be. It's fine where it is, IMO. Raine Valen 09:15, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

So you see no problem with effortlessly maintaining deep wound on an entire enemy party? That doesn't strike you as a balance issue, even though nothing else has ever been able to do that in the entire history of guild wars? You must not play competitively very often. -Auron 09:21, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

You completely neglected to take into account other members of both your teams. Your evaluation for why WS needs +damage and an activation time is based on a WS dervish vs an RC monk and a practice dummy with rend enchantments. Mr J 09:31, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

You know theres other parts of Guild Wars besides GvG and HA...--Ryudo 09:36, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

this is some stupid essay written by a ws derv who play ra and suddenly after over 9000 wins without knowing what his skills do tried HA in randomway and got owned. these are the kind of ppl izzy must listen to. --Cancer Angel 09:41, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I think you'll find he's talking mainly about GvG and HA, Ryudo. Mr J 09:46, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, Ryudo, I do know that. I also know that if it is overpowered in GvG, the "pinnacle" of balance (the vast majority of balances are aimed at guild battles, which is basically the only remotely competitive aspect of the game left), it is overpowered everywhere else, too. PvE? Hell yea. Take 4 SF eles and blow everything up. The 3s recharge really shines there, and shows you just how ridiculous overpowered a 3r timer on deep wound really is. RA/TA? Yep, it's overpowered there too. Monks never bring RC in either of those arenas, and you basically put a damper on the amount they can heal (as well as a cover condition, so they can't dismiss it off without great effort).

Remember the whole premise of guild wars, where skill is supposed to matter more than skills? Yeah, wounding strike + fire magic = you win. That's sort of a hint that they're imbalanced. -Auron 09:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, I specifically stated that this skill didn't need additional damage or an activation time; you may have missed that. Let me quote: "I'm not in any way saying that this skill isn't powerful enough". I hope that clears that issue up.

Secondly, I'd like to thank you for your evaluation, Cursed. It's not accurate, but thank you, anyhow. I know you're smarter than that; you'd do well to show it.

While I didn't address every member of the team (and I'm assuming balanced here, which, in fairness, might be folly on my part, considering the current meta), I did address the effects on what I've judged to be the most important opposing energy pool: the prot monk. And I'm not sure if I've made it clear, but I'm aware that Wounding Strike is devastating there. I did mention the mesmers on both parties, who, granted, have other things that they could be doing. But having a dom mes on RC isn't uncommon. With the other frontline on the WS team taken into account, there's just more pressure; "WS is great pressure" isn't something I've argued against, ever. Counting more opposition would largely be helping my argument; I'll spare us all that. Counting more allies would be doing the opposite; I'm assuming that we all understand what they do. You're not new to this.

Also, none of us addressed the addition of a squishy to the team's frontline. I don't think I need to explain that, either.

As far as enchantment stripping, and whatnot about "Rend Enchantments", I was at no point referring to any "test situation". Interrupt on Conjure (it's not difficult) and then one enchantment removal leaves you quite a bit less effective, and I know you're both too intelligent to be suggesting that an opposing team would not make efforts to eliminate Wounding Strike's "effortless spread of deep wound". Okay, you can put Attacker's Insight up for two attacks (two Wounding Strikes and no Mystic Sweeps, ideally) to inflict Deep Wound twice. Or maybe you could put up Heart of Fury for eleven seconds and run around like a bat out of hell WSing everything. If no one notices the "please remove enchantment here" animation.

Auron, follow me here...

We both agree that WS makes things die, and we'll assume that other people are aware of that, too. As such, it'd be logical to assume that some measures would be take to prevent this. Aside from enchantment removal, standard melee-hate is just as effective on WS, correct me if I'm wrong. So, on a typical balanced team, stopping WS would be prioritized (not firstly, but up there still). So if "fire magic + WS = you win", then the opposing team isn't doing something correctly, in which case it's more of "opposition screwing up = you win", and I don't see anything wrong with that.

I wasn't referring to arenas at all, but let me address that now. WS makes things die in arenas, too. Without RC, it makes things die even better. But I think the rest what I'd say could be derived by one's self given that arenas are largely about overwhelming pressure and WS is awesome pressure.

And don't even talk to me about balance in PvE. There are so many other things that need to happen before the adjustment of any skill can make PvE into anything even remotely resembling "balanced".

Again, thank you for your feedback. If there's anything that I've left unclear (and I do apologize if that's the case), I'll be glad to subsequently detail that for you, just ask. I look forward to hearing more from you. Raine Valen 20:09, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

im neutral in this argument, as both sides have points. For one, Valen did not say that he absolutely INSISTS on damage increases, but merely made it as a suggestion, and I think most people here are taking him like any other person who complains about things like this, only Valen is making some points and has correct spelling.

on the other hand, the opposed side has a point in saying, WS is pretty powerful as is, and really, for the most part, doesnt need a buff.--Raph Talky 02:09, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

"I'm not in any way saying that this skill isn't powerful enough, I'm just addressing one of my (again) personal grievances with the skill.

All in all, I think Wounding Strike is a great skill... It's fine where it is, IMO."

I think that pretty much sums it up? If not, I'd like to try again:

I think that Wounding Strike is fine in its current state and not in need of a buff, though I do believe that something more than what is currently on the skill, such as a shortened activation time or a small amount of additional damage, would make the skill better-able to be used as a follow-up to itself. Perhaps the following:

• • Wounding Strike: Elite Scythe Attack. Inflicts Bleeding condition (x...y seconds). If you are Enchanted, inflicts Deep Wound and Bleeding (x...y seconds). If you strike a foe that is suffering from a Deep Wound, this attack strikes for +5...13...15 damage.

Though, in all honesty, I think that's more powerful than the 1s activation time; putting on a Bleeding-covered Deep Wound in a half second isn't functionally much different than putting it on in a full second, and would make this more useful than a normal attack on something that is already Wounding Struck.

Now, there's one thing I didn't mention before, that I should've... There aren't WS dervs in PvP. Not in GvG, anyway. I mean (call me a noob on this; I deserve it and can admit that), I've seen ONE guild that used a Dervish consistently, and that's where I decided to become a Derv. Should their absence alone not signify something about this stated "overpoweredness"? Okay, the skill is good, but it's not game-breaking. Not even close. It would see more play if that were the case, wouldn't it? Raine Valen 02:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and for the record, I'm not a "he". I mean, I've gotten pretty used to it, but, I mean, enough is enough. >_< Raine Valen 02:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Im going to complement her: Blocking, Blind, Weakness, Miss, Dodging, Cripple,Plague Sending, Plague Signet, Plague Touch, Restore Condition, there's many and many annoying hate melee skills.--ShadowFog 05:12, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

idc but, I have to say that following your logic that there is melee hate, you might as well assume that since there is melee hate Warriors are useless. And since there is monk hate monks are useless. Yeah, basically just because there is a counter to something, doesn't make it balanced (is that just the most often said phrase on this wiki?)Crimmastermind 05:25, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Just saying this skill isn't all that cracked up.--ShadowFog 05:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Wow, there's things in Guild Wars that stop melee characters? I thought that was just a myth, a legend from the old times! What a fabulously new invention they must be, to not yet even have had the chance to be used in competitive player versus player gameplay! --76.25.197.215 06:03, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

People don't have the chance to try this skills in PvP!? They must be informed!--ShadowFog 11:38, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

O rly? Seems to me that you don't understand that having a counter to something doesn't necessarily make it less unbalanced?Pika Fan 17:13, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

This skill is overhyped, and so is Deep Wound in general. It's good, but it has become a goal on its own rather than an aid in taking someone down. 145.94.74.23 10:41, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

^epic quote TBH.Lol DW overhyped its only the thing that makes people go down and stuff Lilondra *gale* 16:56, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

I changed my opinion. You can find me saying it's imba on other more recent posts. Try Shard's user talk, for a good example. Raine - talk 20:05, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

in reference to the build displayed at the top of this section.. u may see a killing machine but i see a spell castor (dervish is a spellcastor filling a warrior role!) just asking to be wanded to death. no defences no run skill nadda you just asume they are ganna ignore you while you WALK up to them and begin wailing on them. if u get a kill with that, they deserved to die, and you deserved to kill them. to those who keep saying point out that the scythe can hit multple targets is say this. the scthe can hit their target and two aditional target who meet the following conditions. are adjacent to both the attacker and target, infront of the atacker, and not underthe efect of a block skill. how bout you and your noob team stop meeting these conditions and then come back complain. and yes, this skill is a bit dificult to deal with in lower level pvp, but to be honest in lower level pvp EVERY Player in unorganized pvp arenas such as RA and ABs should carry an melee counter, and Every organized team should have a melee/atacker counter plan. 3 out of the 10 classes in guild wars are melee and 5 out of ten are atackers by trade. to enter any situation w/o a way ward off atackers and most notable melee atackers is fool hardy. this skill reaps bad players plain and simple. but as a nerf is bound to happen eventually i would like to point out a few things 1:bleeding covers deep wound. reverse it! 2 cheap and Spamable. Now hold on jsut one seconds! all Derv elite attack skills should be Cheap! SOME, should be spamable. this in its curent form should not be as spamable as it is. increase recharge time to 6 seconds (MAX!). if you do anything other than those two sugestions, it better be a revert to original form. dont make a good skill OP, then turn around an make it useless.99.204.70.116 07:13, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I can barely understand what you're talking about, but I did pick out a few things that are plain wrong.

no defences no run skill nadda you just asume they are ganna ignore you while you WALK up to them and begin wailing on them

Look at the build again - it has a "run skill." The build also has a "snare skill," so even while your "run skill" isn't active, enemies will have a hard time kiting. It also has adequate defense - it's called "you have 8 people on your team, bring some goddamn monks."

if u get a kill with that, they deserved to die

The bar posted above is simply imbalanced. A free 13/20 run buff, a no-risk 20/30 IAS, a snare, additional damage buff, energy management, and overpowered attack skills that do too much for their cost (which is basically nothing). If you can't get kills with it, you're doing it wrong - the enemy can't do a damn thing about it.

how bout you and your noob team stop [balling up] and then come back complain

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm just trying to play the game. I guess I need to stop playing Guild Wars before I can complain about Wounding Strike.

EVERY Player in unorganized pvp arenas such as RA and ABs should carry an melee counter, and Every organized team should have a melee/atacker counter plan

That's nice, but totally irrelevant. If a spell deals 5000 damage and casts instantly, is it balanced because people can bring spell breaker? No. Stop using terrible logic.

this skill reaps bad players plain and simple

If by "bad players" you mean "everyone," then okay. I don't think you realize that an overpowered skill with a 3 second recharge is pretty fucking hard to avoid getting "reaped" by.

all Derv elite attack skills should be Cheap

Like Eviscerate is cheap? Evis takes 20-30 seconds to fully charge. If Wounding Strike was balanced, it would reflect that, either via a high recharge time (to prevent it from being used too often) or a high energy cost (another way to prevent it from being used too often). But I like your logic better, let's just make every warrior elite require 2 or 3 adrenaline so it recharges in 3 seconds.

SOME, should be spamable

No, none should be spammable. They should be skills that are risky to play - if you use it at the wrong time, you need to suffer the consequences of doing it wrong. If warriors use Eviscerate at the wrong time, they must charge it for another 20 seconds and waste a lot of killing power. If they use Frenzy at the wrong time, they die. Where are the downsides for playing a dervish poorly? Oh, right, there aren't any.

increase recharge time to 6 seconds (MAX!)

Oh you mean 20 seconds? I agree. That would balance it with Eviscerate - although to be honest, even if their recharges were exactly the same, Wounding Strike would still be more powerful. A cover condition, scythes hitting AoE, base scythe damage being ridiculous... yeah, all that adds up to Wounding Strike being simply a retarded skill from the get go. Eviscerate having bonus damage doesn't matter when scythe base damage is +40.

dont make a good skill OP, then turn around an make it useless

Actually, it was pretty damn useless before, too. Again, however, your logic is lacking - if a skill is overpowered, it needs to be balanced, regardless of its previous state. I wouldn't want it to become "useless," but a 20 recharge wounding strike is far from that - it's still a free covered deep wound skill that hits AoE and does 100+ damage. -Auron 08:35, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

I realise I'm resurecting something this old but the hell with it.I agree with auron on about everything but the point where you say 20-25 Recharge.While I do believe this would balance it out on its own it would kill it in the complete picture.Dervs have become the class that are used because of certain skills.Take away WS and you take away the whole build.Then again I don't know if thats a rly bad thing in this case Lilondra *panda* 14:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Wounding Strike is currently the only skill making dervishes a consideration at all in high-level PvP. They haven't been decent since Chilling Victory was moved out of Scythe Mastery, and that says a lot. :/ Raine - talk 15:35, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Wich is my point.People take dervishes because they are easy to play and because they get some superimba skill every now and then.The rest is just there because you know it makes the build slightly better Lilondra *panda* 15:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

So add some risk to the class instead of removing them completely? Raine - talk 17:55, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Editing one class' properties and skills isn't going to fix GW, it's going to remove them from the meta entirely. The Guild Wars Auron mentioned was the GW of the past, when two things were different: first off, gimmicks largely did not exist -- sure, there were a few stupid builds running around here and there, but the closest thing to a gimmick GW had was probably IWAY, and even then it took a modicum of skill for most of the players to run effectively. This meant you had to be good at the game in order to play competitively (which is just common sense tbh). Second, the game was much more defense-friendly. Damage wasn't like the way it is today. Today, damage is generally uncounterable and totally outstrips healing or defensive capabilities of any team. Examples: searing flooms, wounding strike, visions of Egret, and ion cannon. Back in "the gold old days," damage came from melee, and only melee. An ele might toss an orb at something when the warrior used Eviscerate, but most of your team's damage came from frontliners smacking shit, preferably with an axe or hammer. This meant the game's damage prevention measures were designed to prevent melee damage: guardian, Aegis, ward vs. melee for direct defense; blindness, cripple, and a variety of hexes to stack on warriors to help prevent them from doing anything useful; and then each team members would have defensive measures of their own usually, with a few exceptions. Team members could die, and you would just res them and keep fighting, rather than being forced to fall back because teams break rather than bend in the current meta.
Wounding Strike is annoying, it's true. But it's not that overpowered compared to anything else, because everything is either overpowered as hell or completely worthless. On a related subject, an energy deep wound with no requirement is always going to be overpowered or totally useless (and don't give me shit about "hurr enchanted is a requirement," because on a dervish, no, it's not). Crushing Blow is cool because you have to knock down the target to get any use out of it. Eviscerate is balanced because you have to build adrenaline. What the hell kind of requirement is being enchanted, especially on a farking frontliner? In GvG, eviscerate took 20-30 seconds to get ready, but in PvE, it takes about 5-6 (less if you're using FGJ) because you can spam frenzy on recharge without worrying about nonsense like getting killed. Wounding Strike takes 3 seconds no matter where you are. Which is fine in PvE (in fact, for PvE, I'd go so far as to say WS is pretty weak, considering how much INSANE damage you can do with avatar of Lyssa), but in GvG where people are supposed to bring defense, it's really obscene.</walloftext> --Jette 18:19, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

This skill is an easy fix.

Look at how Pious Assault works. Changing a 20 second Bleeding/Deep Wound combo that requires enchantments to a 5-8 second recharge won't fix the problem of being able to spam that skill (on up to three foes) on recharge to remove any and all hopes of having these conditions go away unless blocked or if you have a P&H monk. I recommend you keep it as is, but add in "You lose one enchantment if you successfully cause Deep Wound with this skill." Making this an elite pious with bleeding would be a little underpowered though, so perhaps a small damage bonus thereafter? 1...13...16 if an enchantment is removed. Thoughts? Also, adding bonus damage to this might make Reaper's Sweep less attractive, so consider keeping a balance between the two in the comments. PowerGamer 21:11, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Mate, just about everything broken in GW has an easy fix. That doesn't mean Anet is going to do a damn thing about it. -- Tha Reckoning 06:54, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Nothing has an easy fix. Ask 10 different top-level GW players what "balance" means and you will get 11 different opinions, at least 9 of which are presented in the form of an angry NPA rant. If "balanced" was a less subjective term, you might be right. --Jette 07:16, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Fair point. -- Tha Reckoning 07:22, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Lol @ reckonings' fail to defend himself. Spotina Talk 14:49, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

The Model Elite

Does anyone agree with me that this should be the model elite skill? That means that all elite skills should be around as good as Wounding Strike. This would make PvE much easier and lessen the arguement over what should be nerfed and what should be buffed. --71.224.251.179 02:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)Recon Legend

No one agrees with you, actually. elix Omni 03:07, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your encouragement --71.224.251.179 03:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)Recon Legend

You see, there are two problems in Guild Wars right now. One is overpowered skills (like Wounding Strike), the other is PvE being no challenge whatsoever. So your suggestion is exactly what killed the game. elix Omni 03:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Yea, I assume ur talking about normal mode. Theres something called hard mode where all creatures have like 600+ health. So Wounding Strike's -100 deep wound will have very little effect. --71.224.251.179 20:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)Recon Legend

There's also something called pvp, where wounding strike = you kill up to 3 people instantly. ~Shard 09:06, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Pwnd. Spotina Talk 14:49, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

This skill isnt overpowered, if u cant deal with a WS spammer in RA plz just stop monking and delete ur account.

A statement of complete ignorance. People don't run blocks, they don't interrupt key skills because bad mesmers and rangers are too busy going after monk instead of doing their job of shutting down eles and this skill, and then they ball up. Auto-covered AoE Deep Wound with the same recharge as Dismiss Condition (which can only remove the bleeding at this point) is completely broken. This skill would be a great skill with an 8 second recharge, and it might make Reaper's at least somewhat competitive. Right now this is the only way a Dervish is viable in RA, and that's sad. PowerGamer 08:35, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Update

Uhm. --ஸ Kyoshi 04:09, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Oh, it was documented on the update page. --ஸ Kyoshi 04:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Should Wounding Strike be related to Reaper's? Reaper's Sweep no longer commits a deep wound, so should someone delete that? 72.79.224.137 22:52, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

welcome @ the wiki you're now able to edit it yourselve! yay!!!!!! --The Holy Dragons 22:56, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

Enchantment removal combo

Does the Guild Wars staff actually play dervishes to have the gall to change dervishes? Also was the original game designer fired or jumped ship? Any way, with the new and worsened version of Wounding Strike, which enchantment is a good combo for Wounding Strike?

Couple of quick recharging ones. Rending Aura for example. --frostels 19:20, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I will try that out and see if which condition covers which. Shadow Knight 19:33, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Staggering Cloak and Dust Cloak, imo. You'll need some energy management, though. — Raine Valen 22:21, 24 Feb 2011 (UTC)

Lolz, now I see how Assnet is getting sloppy. They changed Staggering Force to be just an inferior copy of Rending Aura. In comparison, they didn't change Dust Cloak's effect of inflicting blind, yet they copy-pasted Rending Aura to Staggering Force, how tarded is that, oh I mean tardy. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Shadow Knight (talk).

Staggering Force is in Earth Prayers; Rending Aura is in Wind Prayers. Big difference. — Raine Valen 0:16, 2 Mar 2011 (UTC)

IMO, this skill should emulate Wearying Strike and remove an enchantment before hitting, not after. Why should Wearying have that feature as a non-elite, and this not have it as elite..? It might actually see serious play again.98.163.27.110 08:17, 27 April 2011 (UTC)Avatar of Sands

Somebody sounds a little anally flustered. Pjwned 09:52, 5 May 2011 (UTC)