Feedback talk:Gaile Gray/Archive Support Issues/Mar - Apr 2011

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Store not working?

Hello Gaile, Im not sure if this is the right page, but its the only thing I can think of. Im trying to log into the Guild Wars In-game store, but when I go into, my guild wars window just turns black and doesnt do anything, Ive tried to get into it on multiple computers (3 Diffrent ones). I can get into the game and acually play, but I just cant access the store. Ive also tried multiple accounts and still the same issue. Im just wondering if the store is down or something? An error, does pop up, but I havent gotten the chance to read it yeat because I restarted the computer It was on and closed the rest before they came up. Im also experiencing some issues with logging into my nc soft account, because of the new security details, but thats a diffrent issue Im pretty sure isnt related. Second Note: the Error says: Networking error. Please check your connection to the Internet and try again. (Code=173).

Personally, Im 100% sure Im connected to the internet, as I did write this on the internet (Duh). all 3 computers I tried were. Signed, Fantil Swift (Im too lazy to sign in on this comp lol) 24.239.11.71 17:40, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I got into the store and it worked antil Swift 18:33, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Hey, Fantil -- thanks for the report. I'm sending this off to a large number of helpful people. It could be ISP-based, system-based (not likely with you trying 3 different systems!), or location (Internet backbone) based, but it could be *gasp* us! :) I'll send that mail now. Thanks again. -- Gaile 04:28, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

@Fantil -- Talking to two different network teams, it'd be super helpful to know where you are located. City, state, country... that would help us troubleshoot this. Thanks! -- Gaile 05:13, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

@Fantil again. Can you answer a question for Stephen, one of our programmers? Do you get an immediate error message, or does it stall for a while, like half a minute or that sort of thing? The answer to that helps us figure out what the issue is. Stephen said, "If it’s 30 seconds later, then the transaction timed out somewhere, and is more likely to be specific to him. If it’s “right away” (less than a second or two) then it is a connectivity error, but as I said, I don’t see that from poking around." Please update me on the time it takes to get the black screen or the error message. Thanks! -- Gaile 05:21, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

It usually stalled for a bit, but the first times I got the error message right off the bat. and Im from Port Perry, Ontario, Canada. Ealier it was fixed, but it started again a few minutes ago. It might be that I tried to log onto the nc soft store, and since I couldnt get my questions right, it doesnt like me lol. antil Swift 00:17, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I think its because that I first tried to log into to nc soft store. its still the same thing, but a friend of mine can still get in on his account, but not my account. antil Swift 00:22, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

For goodness sake, don't have a friend try to get onto your account -- that's just taking a risky ride down Security Threat Road! If you're having trouble, I'm just sure it's localized or specific to your system. Please let support help you out by getting in touch with them. We certainly don't want to keep anyone out of the store -- it's what pays for future development! :) -- Gaile 04:13, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Hehe lol, I went over to my friends house and typed in the info, and then left when I did that lol antil Swift 04:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Wrongfully banned for botting

Wrongfully banned for botting [Incident 110129-002998]

Hey Gaile, I just wish to get your help because my father's account was banned and I am sure it was a mistake since he never used bots, the only third party program he had is Gwx2 because he have an account for storage and doesn't have a second computer, he used to farm in the topk a lot because he wants to fill the hom for gw2 but never used bots, if you can check in the time he was logged, he used to talk in alliance, please let me know how can I prove you that he wasn't cheating, because it really hurts his pride to be called cheater when we have a philosophy of never cheat, Thanks for taking the time of read our plead, he didn't signed this because he doesnt have an account here but anything please let me know--Batousai 20:51, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I have started looking into this. Thanks for waiting and not writing me 20 minutes after you submitted the ticket. ;) -- Gaile 04:19, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I discussed this with the team and did some additional research. Your father should be hearing from the team very soon. It was a rather complicated issue and it took a bit of time. I thank you both for your patience. -- Gaile 04:51, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for helping us with this issue Gaile--Batousai 23:39, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

You're very welcome. It's great that we were able to review the issue and learn more information that allowed us to rectify an erroneous account closure. Most closures are correct, and even review and re-reviews don't change the outcome, but it's particularly satisfying when we're able to make things right from all perspectives. Have fun in Guild Wars! :) -- Gaile 19:55, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Wrongfully blocked account, please help

Wrongfully blocked [Incident 110131-001921]

Hi Gaile! My accounts have been blocked because someone hacked into them and caused trouble. My record here is perfect, never had any bans, marks, problems at all with support or players over all the years I’ve played any of your games. You can see clearly this is not normal behavior for me or my account gameplay, I have never hacked into anyone’s account or taken things that were not mine. I am an older woman, I am not a troublemaker kid. It hurts me to be accused of something that I have not been involved with, on top of dealing with the loss of everything. I have been out of state traveling on and off over the last several months, can provide receipts if needed, and not been regularly on each account. I do not know when this occurred or how long it had been accessed. It saddens me greatly that myself or anyone else was effected by this.

I’ve shared public campus computers where I work and the connection where I live is shared with every unit in the building and I do not know everyone here, and this may be how they got my info with this insecure connection. I am never sharing an internet connection with strangers or using public computers again and have taken measures to protect myself from attacks such as this according to your security tips online. I wish I had read your tips earlier and was aware that someone could do this to me or others. It is sad to me to be treated like this after I’ve spent so many positive years in this game and hundreds of dollars on campaigns, multiple unlocks and more in a game we all love. To permanently close my accounts for someone stealing/accessing my accounts without my knowledge and doing something bad is wrong, there must be another solution to help me with this. Please help me retrieve my related accounts, do not take my account away because of my stupidity to protect myself from someone stealing my account.

This would mean a lot to me, I don’t know who else to turn to or who will take the time to believe me and correct this wrongful block. I am truly not involved in this, please let me know what I need to do to sort this out. Sorry for my wordy or confusing support messages, I thought this was caused by a different issue due to the limited information provided by support. Thank you for your time! PianoLady 19:47, 3 March 2011 (UTC)PianoLady

I know you are writing about one specific account, but looking at all the data, I want to know how many accounts you own, in total. -- Gaile 20:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Gaile, thank you for your response! I have around 24 accounts that were effected by this. I tried to link them 2 years ago through Ncsoft. Support told me they could not be unlinked and relinked together after linked already to a master account at that time. Some of these were contest storage before the Xunlai pane update, to hold guilds, or my error in entering code keys to successfully link Prophecies with Factions at start. All registered in my name, and I have saved all code keys, most barely played. I have never tried to hide these accounts are mine, and never had problems with support on any account of mine. I have not logged on all these accounts regularly, and this may have been part of how this issue occurred. Please let me know if there is additional information I can provide on this matter. Appreciate your help very much. Thank you for your time! PianoLady 00:53, 5 March 2011 (UTC) PianoLady

I agree that you do not at all fit the profile for account closures, and I'm sorry that this took place. I went over the tickets in detail, and I even called a senior agent at the Support Center to get his eyes on it, too. When an account is found to be involved in defrauding (scamming) another player, or is found to be involved in accessing another player's account (usually for purposes of stealing items, as was the case here), it is not unusual for all that person's accounts to be closed. In this case, two of your accounts were involved -- yes, I've seen the "trail" of activities personally -- and as I believe the agents writing you explained, either you or someone to whom you gave access perpetrated the account access and item theft. With regret, I do not see how the account you're writing about (or the second involved account) can or will be restored, although certainly you can continue to discuss the matter with Support. If you wish to request the restoration of your other currently-closed accounts, go ahead and update your ticket and an agent will review the matter. (As you are no doubt aware, two other people indirectly involved with this incident have already been reinstated because their accounts were not directly involved. Such is not the case with this account.) -- Gaile 04:09, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Support Epic Fail

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray

Hi Gaile, I'm sorry to do this, in general I am a huge supporter of GW customer service and support, but I just have to share this exchange I just had with Support. Mikala's response to my e-mail is at the top, with my original e-mail below:

"Hello ***,

There is no way to know for sure how someone was able to gain the login information. We always recommend that you never share your login information with anyone or log into your account from a location that could be un-secure. Also, you should never use the same password and login name for multiple accounts or e-mail addresses. It is also good practice to change your passwords and security options on a regular basis.

If you have any further questions, please let us know.

Thanks, Mikala NCsoft Account Support

To contact our Billing or Technical Support by phone, please call (512)225-6359. Monday - Friday, 12 PM - 5 PM Central Time (North America) Long distance charges may apply.

Customer By Email (****) 03/09/2011 08:57 PM Hi Graham,

Thank you for your assistance, I successfully logged onto my PlayNC master account, changed my password and got back into the game, problem solved.

Sort of. Upon logging in I found that someone else had been in my account, deleted one of my characters, created an assassin with a jumbled name, and removed everything of value from all of my characters and my storage. It seems my account was hacked. I don't know what you can do, if anything, about that, but I'm sure you can appreciate my disappointment.

At the very least, I would like to try and explore how this could have happened. I do not, nor have I ever, shared my password with anyone. The password I used is not one I use anywhere else (I have used variations of it in the past, but I do not involve myself with insecure websites, and if I do I use a completely different password). I am not interested in pointing fingers regarding how "they" could have gotten my password, but I would like to try and narrow down some of the possibilities so I can make sure it does not happen again. Any thoughts or suggestions you can think of would be helpful.

Thanks, ****"

As you can see from my original e-mail, I'm not asking for much, just a few ideas of how this might have happened, and maybe a little sympathy. What I got was a response from someone who clearly did not even read my e-mail (e.g., "I do not, nor have I ever, shared my password with anyone." gaining a response of "We always recommend that you never share your login information with anyone..."). As helpful as that was, I don't think I'll be asking Mikala for any other ideas. Also, she spelled my name wrong. And I have a 4-letter name that is one of the most common names in the world. (Satanael | talk) 03:50, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Their job doesn't involve giving out sympathy beyond the obligatory "I'm sorry". Typos will happen with the most common words, and they have to send a lot of emails. Don't get worked up over it.

If there were a sign of an account breach, they would have blocked the account off until you claimed it. As it is, not only do they have no way of knowing how your account was accessed, they have no idea whether it even was. So it makes sense that all you're going to get is a generic response. Furthermore, there are any number of ways your account could have been accessed, and any number of websites you can find via Google that will spell them out for you; it's not a good use of their time to make a list for your convenience.

Not to speak for Support or on behalf of Gaile, of course, but this is my assessment. --ஸ Kyoshi 04:33, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

I can give you a couple of possibilities considering you never share the password and use a unique password for everything... A keylogger or some other malicious tracking software that is logging your keys is installed on the computer. You play the game on a insecure network where someone with some difficulty decrypts the password you've typed. You were a victim of a phishing attack (FYI: some of these attacks require no input from you. Some of these attacks will just silently install a program and starts logging your keys). You used a smartphone that is infected with a keylogger (Yep smartphones aint safe anymore), and logged into NCMA... that's about all I can think right now of the most common ways to obtain a password with out you sharing it with anyone. Like kyoshi said, this isn't on behalf of gaile or Anet. Just some info for you. --Lania 04:44, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

We are genuinely sorry when players find themselves in this position. We don't have access to your computer, and I'm sure you'll appreciate that doing detailed exchanges with each customer who gets his account hacked is not a service we can offer. Please read the Account Security article I posted here on the Guild Wars Wiki. The article will provide you with security tips and may help you figure out what took place on your system. -- Gaile 20:17, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile. I think that if the generic response I had gotten was a little more like Lania's response above, I would have been happy, perhaps just linking to the article you just gave me (which was helpful, by the way, so thank you for sharing it). Even though it doesn't really give me "the" answer, it enumerated some possibilities that I didn't know about, and allows me to reexamine the ways I keep my accounts and passwords secure. I've worked in customer service before, and I know exactly how difficult it is to respond to the same question for the thousandth time, with a thousand more to go, and still take that extra moment to make sure my response is as helpful as it could be; which is precisely how I know that Mikala could have done better. (Satanael | talk) 02:15, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I guess I don't see the issue. You said "I used a unique password" and the agent confirmed that is what we always suggest that people do. I don't see an error -- I see a misinterpretation of the messaging. Not ignoring what you said, but repeating yes, that's what we tell folks. In any case, I wish you well and hope that you can rebuild after the loss of items. -- Gaile 03:08, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

I just want to say that there is kinda of a general shift in trends in account security breaches. While simple passwords and shared passwords still remain the most common way any online accounts are stolen, there is a growing trend towards social media related phishing attacks through facebook, live journal, twitter, myspace etc. Right now, that is the fastest growing method of online account theft as it allows attackers to co-opt friend's names and IDs in their messages using malicious apps on facebook. This allows attackers from doing anything from phishing and fool users to go to attack websites that installs malicious software silently on the victim's computer. The popularity of this attack comes from the higher rate of success because the phishing message appears to be coming from a friend, and in twitter's case a tinyurl link on a friend's twitter feed. Also because many of these attacks exploit newly discovered vulnerabilities in the browser, flash etc and contain code that allow it to evade AV detection, it reduces the effectiveness of any security software on the computer. The rate of success is also high because awareness of this type of attack is rather low at the moment. --Lania 06:20, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

All good and valid observations, Lania, and I thank you for sharing them. -- Gaile 06:31, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Hacked account aftermath

Incident: 110308-002305 and Incident: 110304-005182

Hi Gaile,

I have 2 incident numbers as one was for reactivating my account and the other about the aftermath of a ransacked account. Support themselves wouldn't separate the two issues so now both tickets are still active as such.

What happened? My account was hacked and terminated as per the rules. I found out on the Friday after the new update and I was eager to get the game updated and buy some mercenary slots. However, I'd just been hacked that week and now that my account is active again my account was returned to me in a ransacked state. I suppose I could consider myself lucky that my dedicated weapons were still there (destroyer and tormented) so I had at least something left of 5 and half years of playing the game.

I have come to understand that Anet/NcSupport have no tools to restore any items and there lies the issue. Regardless of who's fault was what, I feel account hacking is a fact of (e-)life. I am sure that for you it's a constant battle but there are no guarantees that it will never happen. For this reason other companies (that I shall not name by name here) do have restoration services for their players and this something that GW1 and also GW2 could look into. In fact I am not even sure I would want to play GW2 if there is no restoration service because the risk of losing almost everything again is not something I would care to run again.

So what am I talking about here? I lost over 45 elite armour sets, two of which were FoW armour sets and some Vabbian sets were among them as well and a pair of chaos gloves. Gear such as a r8 broadsword, r9 str. Echovald shield and r9 Voltaic Spear were bad to lose as well, but especially the armour sets hurt a lot. Especially now with the mercenary slots for which these armour sets would've made perfect skins, but alas I have mostly naked characters. Two have decent, normal armour but nothing worth showing off as such. Then because also all the runes and insignia have been stripped off my heroes, the 7 hero-party is another thing that is out of my reach.

In essence I have to start all over, without having quest and mission rewards since I did all those and well, it's gonna take a long time to replace all this. I am not a big farmer so I earned most of it with gameplay as time went along.

I did offer ideas to support like making HoM skins available as costumes or skin options for mercenaries but they said they don't talk to the devs and to contact you here (as you can see in the incidents). So, I guess my question in the end is, that since Support have gone as far as they could, is there anyone at Anet who can help me with this or is this basically "tough luck, sh*t happens"?

PS: I do not presume to be able to tell people what to do but I do not wish for people to turn this into a "who's fault it was that I got hacked" discussion. This already happened on the forum and hasn't added anything constructive. Et In Gehenna Vixi... 12:11, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

First, I'm really sorry that you got hacked, and that you lost such valuable items! You had a lot of great things, and I sympathize with how upsetting their loss would be. I can certainly pass along the idea of offering some purchase-able items such as you mentioned. We've not done that in the past because we didn't want to be in the position of selling items that made a character inherently more powerful. A costume that makes him look better is quite a different proposition that one that gives him greater survivability or enhanced fighting power. Decisions like this would involve a lot of teams but I can assure you that this sort of planning and consideration is in everyone's mind now and for the future.

When you say that you want to know if someone at ArenaNet can help you, I'm not sure what you mean. None of us can generate items. None of us -- from the president of the company on down -- can offer a rollback or a character reset. Some companies do offers those services, and I've been pretty outspoken in what I feel we should offer in Guild Wars 2, although naturally those decisions lie with others. Whenever someone proposes a reset, a restoration, a roll-back, or a new-at item generation process, though, there are significant consequences for the economy. People can hand off items, claim a "hack," get a "restoration pack" and thereby double their footprint on the economy.

So at this point, we don't offer this service, but perhaps in the future we may. If we cannot offer you any sort of reset now, maybe someday we will be able to do that. But before we implement any of that sort of system, we will look at it -- big picture and small -- and make sure we do it in the best way possible.

All the best as you rebuild! -- Gaile 08:11, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your quick reply and understanding.

Well, this is the core of the matter I guess. All that I have dedicated at the HoM...my armours and some weapons are of no real trade value anymore the moment they were dedicated. Returning these items without runes, mods etc. would not damage the economy in any way. To me the HoM is a great element that can allow this as it proves that they are there. Of course I am not sure what would happen to the HoM if your characters get deleted but in the end there are options there, that are not detrimental to the economy.

I am faced with the decision whether this loss is worth rebuilding or not. GW2 is around the corner, so is a new big time investment worth it? Also you cannot promise me I will never get hacked again. This is logical because it is impossible to promise such a thing, but it does make me wonder if I want to risk this again...both in GW1 and GW2. I hope that you can appreciate that the words "maybe someday" are not enough for me to say that my concerns have been addressed and I am happy.

To be honest I am not sure what you mean by "selling items that make a character inherently more powerful". As max stat items have always been easy to get, this was never a real issue in GW. All that was of value are things that are purely cosmetic in nature. So I just wonder how this was seen as a possible issue. The economy point I fully get, but as I mentioned, armour and weapons that have been dedicated to the HoM do not have this issue as they are all dedicated/customised.

So I guess for me it's back to deciding whether I will be a GW customer anymore at all or not. I have gone from playing over 6000 hours of GW1 and really looking forward to GW2 to wondering if I want to play at all anymore, simply because when you lose everything because of a malicious hacker, which is unfortunately something that is a realistic event, Anet/NcSoft do not have anything in place to assist in pretty much the worst thing that can happen to any player. Perhaps this is something that is worth considering/rethinking.

Gaile has already said that she's speaking out to ANet/NCsoft about exactly what you're suggesting. Reiterating the point isn't going to "convince her" any more, and she can't simply decide for the company that this should happen. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:49, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Initially I spoke of using the HoM to allow skins to be used as costumes for characters or for the mercenary slots in GW1. After Gaile's response where she also mentioned she wasn't sure about what I meant with my question I felt it was fair to pick that up and also to ask for a clarification about something she said. Then I ADDED the idea or suggestion of ACTUAL restoration via the HoM or home instance in GW2 as this avoids the economic effects she mentioned (again as a furthering of my suggestions, not repeating them). So to me this is expansion and clarification but certainly not reiteration or convincing. I hope that clarifies my intention for you Kyoshi. Thanks, Gehenna.

Just to be clear -- we do not have the capacity to spawn items for hack replacements in Guild Wars. I do not know what we will develop for Guild Wars 2 to address issues related to theft and hacks, but I know enough to know that it does not involve a simple process, nor is it an uncomplicated decision. I do not foresee the developers implementing a "replace your Guild Wars items in Guild Wars 2" mechanic. And if you think about it, that would be impossible, because not a single item can be carried forward into Guild Wars 2, nor carried from Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars. Again, I certainly do not see the Live Team recoding the game to allow spawning directly in Guild Wars -- I believe it would not even be possible to do that. If it were, certainly it would take a huge amount of time and expertise that is better spent developing new content that benefits everyone, such as Embark Beach, Mercenary Heroes, the Pre-Searing Quests, etc. Items dedicated in the HoM do not go away, even if the items themselves are stolen. I think that is a very good and comforting feature for those who experience an account theft.

As far as promising you will not be hacked again, I cannot possibly do that. It would be impractical and unrealistic for anyone to develop the expectation that we could somehow protect against external elements that make hacking possible. We can't take responsibility for someone sharing his credentials, for using an insecure password, for using a password that is used elsewhere, for sharing a game account, for getting a keylogger on his account, for using a seemingly-harmless third-party program that actually contains malicious software or for the other factors that can render an account insecure. We have strong internal security, that is, features that protect your account on our end. But it was not on our end that the hacking occurred. -- Gaile 19:31, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I think Gehanna was not asking for GW2 items to replace GW1 lost items, but rather that items already dedicated to the HoM, such as a tormented shield or Obby Armor, be able to be recreated in the hall by the character that dedicated it. It's not a bad idea, since it wouldn't necessarily be spawning new items, but rather checking the HoM database for the item and recreating it, similar to the festival hat guy.-- Pyron Sy 23:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I am not a game designer, nor a programmer. But I feel that I know enough to say this: Getting a HoM retrieval feature "plumbed" would be extremely time intensive. It's quite likely it is not do-able at all, due to the structure of the game, the item system, etc. The implementation of the Hat Collector took a goodly amount of time. Adding a retrieval system for hundreds of HoM items with even more hundreds of variables sounds daunting to me; something that might take a number of team members and an large amount of time. After all, it would take time to design, to test, to implement, and to adapt and update over time. All this for a feature that would benefit a small percentage of the population, as opposed to a massive update like the Embark Beach Update that benefits all players. Having said that, you are more than welcome -- in fact I encourage you -- to post your suggestion on the proper portal. -- Gaile 05:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, thank you for answering in any case Gaile. Having had the experience now and realising how devastating it was to find out that Support has no tools to help and now to find out that for GW2 nothing is being done in this respect, at least I have honesty from your side and I do appreciate that.

I was indeed not asking for GW1 items to be restored to me in GW2, that is not realistic at all, I completely see that. I also know that once you've had the experience of being hacked, you don't look at gaming online the same way anymore. Other companies have instruments in play that help with retrieval and I know it requires some investment of note to implement such a system but I guess I feel that for me the risk of this happening ever again and facing the same, well, devastation is what is, is something I can no longer just shrug off as, "well, I doubt it will ever happen to me again." Once bitten, twice shy as they say.

I will accept that this is not Arenet's priority and I understand that this will likely not change in the near future. It does bring me to the end of the road of my enquiry/question. Just as my final comments (and please do not see this as a threat because it isn't) I must conclude that I have a need as a customer that Anet cannot meet and so our business relationship must end here as I choose not to expose myself to this possibility in neither GW1 nor GW2 again. GW2 will no doubt be a big hit (also without me) and I hope that you will do well as I know you do a lot for you customers in general but I also hope that you can understand that after this experience, I cannot see myself going back to GW1 or start GW2 knowing that this can happen again and that nothing will be done for me then either. So thanks for all the good things in the game I enjoyed so far and your efforts here. It was a good ride up to this point.

I just want to point out that my thoughts about the retrieval concept relate only to Guild Wars. I have no idea how such issues will be handled in Guild Wars 2. I have every hope that we will have most extensive tools for dealing with such matters in the new game. -- Gaile 18:04, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, if I ever see this feature announced for GW2, I will be very happy to play GW2, because other than this issue, GW2 looks absolutely fantastic.

I'm concerned about this issue. If items such as armor and weapons are to be made "retrievable", what's to stop players from selling them (or hackers from taking them), "retrieving" them and selling(/taking) the copies? Wouldn't it be far too similar to "dup'ing"? If such a system is implemented, another would need to follow it to prevent its obvious potential. Getting hacked sucks, but there's nothing in GW and will probably be nothing in GW2 that cannot be reacquired. At the very least, I'm sure that the those items in GW2 that may be unique will have special circumstances tied to them to keep them from being irretrievable or taken by others. You lost something high-end? Well, now you have a renewed reason to play GW(2). It's frustrating, but better than getting bored. Teddy Dan, yo. 10:22, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

PS: Dedicated/Customized items can still be sold. They can still affect the economy of the game, especially if they can be repeatedly reproduced without any effort. Teddy Dan, yo. 11:28, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the intentional "duping" of items is one of my biggest concerns with any sort of replacement system. If we could actually retrieve, we'd be talking about a single instance of an item. Even then, retrieval has its risks because you may be retrieving from a third party, someone who innocently traded for the stolen item with the person to whom the "pretend hacking victim" passed the item in the first place. And retrievals, in any concept I can envision, are time-consuming and wrought with other challenges, as well. Yes, I have spent a lot of time thinking about this; the subject fascinates me on both a personal and academic level. You you can be sure that if any system is put in place, a whole lot of us will be looking at the various permutations and deciding how to proceed, including deciding which risks are acceptable in the name of good customer service and which are not. I've heard of giving hack victims a "starter pack" when their accounts are wiped, but those have not been seen as a wholly-satisfactory system, either. It is a very interesting subject! -- Gaile 19:45, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps suggesting and encouraging the customization of cherished items, and perhaps allowing any item be taken to an NPC (either new or modified) for customization. After which disabling the sale/trade of all customized items and then the implementation of a retrieval system for deleted-only items. Customized items can be "tagged" with certain (probably difficult) code, much like that which already prevents one character to use the customized items of another. Does this help, at all? Teddy Dan, yo. 10:57, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

As for trade, you have a system to prevent the trade of Zaishen coins. I'm thinking certain existing code can be copied and modified to broaden their scope. However, I'm not a programmer. I'm just the guy with the oversimplified ideas. Teddy Dan, yo. 11:04, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for all of the edits, I just keep getting thoughts in my head. When an item is deleted, where does it go? Does the code disappear or is it transferred elsewhere? If it disappears, can the code not be retyped? If it is transferred, can it not be returned? I know this isn't Programming101, and I'm sure there's nothing I know that you don't, but perhaps this uneducated monkey can do(/say) something clumsy that sparks an idea. Could it hurt? Teddy Dan, yo. 11:12, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Was the idea really that bad? T_T Teddy Dan, yo. 02:08, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh goodness, they were good ideas, I've just been busy and didn't notice the additions. :) I think you may have something in the whole "customized item" concept. But what about add-ons, and what about salvaging? Do you make customized items both tied to a character and "no salvage" to prevent abuse? Because I'm sure you'll agree that if something can be salvaged for a Sup Rune, for instance, its replacement is going to impact the economy. And quite frankly, I don't see players liking the concept of customization when the cost is so high: no trade, no use by other characters, and a no-salvage rule, too? That's pricey!

It's late-ish and I have a miserable head cold and what I've written may not make sense. :) At the core, I don't believe that items will be reconfigured for Guild Wars in such a way that we'll be able to restore items. I am nearly certain that item retrieval will remain impossible except in extremely rare cases, as it is now. But the Live Team is constantly amazing me with what they do, so who can say? I just have an instinct that things will remains as they are for GW, and nothing more than that instinct based on what I've learned in the past. In regards to Guild Wars 2, I'm still in the process of pinging folks to see if I can learn what they have in mind. And of course, any public revelation or discussion of what they have in mind will be pending... the usual things. :) -- Gaile 05:57, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'm thinking modifications can be treated much like dye in this case. Not salvageable but replaceable. Only once applied to a customized item, of course. Still salvageable from drops and non-customized trades. It would be pricey, as you won't have any financial return during the replacement process. But, again, it's no different than the dyeing process except that one could still salvage the mod from a non-customized item.

This can be used in GW2, if a modification process returns, to mend the old wounds of GW and provide a more secure and trustworthy experience for every player. Players of GW may not like the idea, at first, but once the rate at which hackers cause their mayhem begins to drop then I'm sure they'll be the ones left QQing. I vote for a safer environment, regardless of the cost. Realistically, I'd rather pay a little extra to put an end to theft than end up paying everything I have because I was hacked. It doesn't have to be now, it's just an idea for the future. I got worried when the responses came daily but then ceased for a few. Now that I know your circumstances, I hope for your recovery. :D Teddy Dan, yo. 11:29, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

For the sake of a safer environment, whom else would be willing to do the same? (Yes, I know I'm asking this in a relatively unpopular section.) Teddy Dan, yo. 17:17, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

You mean "who else". And this is better suited to the user feedback portal than Gaile's page, especially if you're requesting feedback. --ஸ Kyoshi 18:40, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

(edit indent) Is it "who else"? Interesting. Anyway, I wanted Gaile's opinion (and the opinions of those whom/who most of this page directly interests) before I began officially suggesting the impossible. I want to know how many others would feel they'd benefit from my suggestions, so I don't end up making wholly self-centered suggestions. Teddy Dan, yo. 08:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Gaile, to answer your other question about salvage. In GW1 especially armour is an issue for me. Armour is automatically customised as it is and there is such a thing as perfect salvage kits. If perfect salvage kits were the only possible way to salvage runes from elite armours, what would that do? Hackers wouldn't destroy you armour because they had no choice but to use perfect salvage kits. And even then if they deleted armours out of spite, what would be the problem to give people back their armours that were registered in their HoM? Of course you give them the armour back without any runes or insignia but at least the hard work to earn these armour sets is protected. This is what I was looking for. Why would you need to be able to destroy FoW armour for a couple of Ecto's anyway or do you actually get a lot of ecto's for salvaging it? And how many people would be upset if they were no longer able to salvage those Ecto's from ripping FoW armour? Aside from the gold sellers I mean :)

Hackers could use the player's own funds to craft/purchase perfect salvage kits. Teddy Dan, yo. 20:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Gaile, do you think this is good enough to take to Feedback or are there any concerns you, as a knowledgeable representative, may have that could be hammered out here before the final draft? Teddy Dan, yo. 22:27, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

@Teddy Dan. Of course they can make perfect salvage kits but they will not destroy the elite armour sets when they use them to rip the runes etc off. In the end I want to make clear that I am looking for support from Anet/Nc when someone's account gets hacked. There is none at the moment and I hope this discussion will help create some ways of support. Account hackers will not stop and cannot be stopped 100%, so the idea is that they will add support options or as I suggest here, some ways that prevent hard earned items to be destroyed casually by hackers/gold sellers. Whatever works. Et In Gehenna Vixi... 12:11, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Hackers are generally malicious individuals. They lack the ethical decency and wisdom to understand what doesn't belong to them, so it's best not to assume they won't simply delete your armor and customized weapons just for kicks and giggles. To understand malice, you have to think maliciously. If you truly possessed no capacity for human decency, what would you do if you hacked somebody's account and found that everything you wanted to take and sell for your own benefit was customized? All the impish effort you put into clawing your way into their account, for next to nothing. Would you simply let it go and move on or would you delete everything they had because you're a spiteful, malicious, irredeemable coward? That is what hackers are. That is what they do. Perhaps not all of them are so devoted to greed, and may be of the lazy sort, but are you willing to put all of your potentially hard-earned possessions on the line for such a gamble? I'm not. There's one way to fight it, all of it, and you either support it or you don't. Teddy Dan, yo. 21:30, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

This is getting off-topic from a discussion which is off-topic on Gaile's page to begin with. If you have an idea then make a feedback page. --ஸ Kyoshi 00:06, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Isn't this about what Support can do (in the near future) after a hacking incident? O_o Teddy Dan, yo. 00:10, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Bleh, don't know what my thoughts were when claiming it was off topic. But this is getting cluttered, and it would be best to just go and create a feedback page to house your thoughts in an organized and less rambling fashion than this section is accomplishing. Are you really so adverse to that? --ஸ Kyoshi 04:52, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Nope, just wanted a good reason. Teddy Dan, yo. 04:59, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

After much procrastination, I finally made the feedback page. Feel free to gaze in awe and wonder... and maybe say a thing or two to make me feel good about myself. Here it is. Teddy Dan, yo. 22:23, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Due to its length, alone, this section should probably be archived. I don't think anyone else is going to be adding anything new to it any time soon, based on the dwindling responses I've witnessed. It's all yours, Gaile. Teddy Dan, yo. 22:54, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

Copyright Issue

Sup Gaile

→ moved from Feedback talk:John Stumme

How do you feel about other people using Guild Wars' icons? http://www.playdota.com/heroes/necrolyte for example has the Death Nova icon.--83.82.62.210 19:45, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Take it to Gaile. She's already handling a similar case. -- Oiseau | 19:51, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Oiseau, that's right -- I discuss these situations with our legal counsel, so I'm a good person to send them to.

Thanks to you, 82, for bringing this to our attention. I've scoured the site to see if there are more uses of GW art, but so far I haven't spotted any. However, Death Nova is ours, no question about it. Because of that, I've forwarded a request to discuss this with our legal counsel and we'll pursue it if he feels that's the right course to take. -- Gaile 03:05, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

They use a recolouring of Ether Renewal as well. And I recall the use of Conjure Phantasm's icon as well, though that has been taken down now, it seems. - Infinite - talk 03:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Found it here; their hero "Mercurial" used a slightly toned down version of Conjure Phantasm's icon. Currently they use this, though. - Infinite - talk 03:33, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for catching those, Infinite! I didn't see either of them, although I was checking that skull out reeeeallly carefully. (It's not ours.) -- Gaile 04:27, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

← moved to User talk:Nathe

Please read what I have to say, Gaile, before making a decision. It was redirected, but it's easy enough to find if you just follow the link. Thanks! -- Nathe 00:02, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

I've read it. I will not allow you to use my pages to engage in promulgating your biases. Copyrights are in place for a reason. Companies will decide on an individual basis how to deal with them. Please desist from future posting on this subject. -- Gaile 01:18, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Account Theft

Hello Gaile!

Serious business this time.

I just got someone logged into my account, removing all the stuff I've hoarded and it looks like a mess. Is this common and how does it happen?

So I just changed the gw and ncsoft passwords. My question is if that's enough? I don't want this to be repeated in a month or so when I've got money for runes. Thanks! -Cursed Angel 15:46, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, if you have magic powers. Could you ban the account with a character called "Stoned Chaplain"? Cuz he's the guy who got into my account. If you have even more magic powers. Could you give me the password to his account to get my stuff back?

I have no idea how it works but don't just give me a "hi, get a better password kthx :)" when I've got this guy's name. -Cursed Angel 19:10, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Assuming it isn't another innocent victim being used as a cut-out. --Valshia 20:04, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

First of all, there is a part where you have to report this (can't think of where Cursed), secondly, you have to first send a ticket to support with all your information, they can help you better then gaile. Gaile is here for when you have either questions, notice bots, and to help motovate support. thirdly, when you do change passwords make sure that it is something diffcult, so as long as it has numbers, and caps and lower you should be fine. forthly Gaile does have magical powers, but she will not give you the person who you think hacked your account on the full fact of A, it is based off a huntch, B how do we know YOUR not using this to hack them and C, there is no actual way to roll back the game without having to do it to EVERY character who played. lastly It is a tragidy when you log on and your hard work is gone, My advice is to change the password often, and if you have guild mates to keep an eye on your characters. But I feel your pain, hasn't happened to me yet but I am worried when I can't log on. Send that Ticket off and give AS MUCH information as possible when you send the ticket off.
side note, make sure you sign your comments to make it easy on other people Ocren 21:18, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Since you know the person who stole your items, it's especially important for you to submit a support ticket. Tell them what you've told me, along with date and time (and time zone) of the hack. Please contact them and let me know how it sorts out. -- Gaile 19:22, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

About Leeches in PvP

We all know this one. However, it seems support can't do anything. Apperently they need corroboration of reports before they can take action, which is a strange idea, to say the least. Please let me know if this is the right place or not, Thanks. Klefer

It would help to know what "place" you were looking for. Please read the banner at the top of this page entitled "Paws to Ponder: Support Issues" . Perhaps you were looking for Feedback talk:Gaile Gray/Botwatch? Or maybe Report? G R E E N E R 05:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestions, but no, neither of these places really cover what I meant. I'm screenshotting leechers, both in game and out of it, with the famous dishonor hex at different times of day (one char was seen 6 times in one day!!!). I sent these to Ncsoft (i.e. raising tickets) for investigation and get the response that there's nothing that can be done about it, unless someone else reports these too. Obviously they are being reported in game by other people and still getting away with it, which is, imho, a ludicrous situaution. Please could you shed some light on this regrettable state of affairs? Klefer

I would also like to know what should be done about it, since the current report system is pretty ineffective for legitimate leechers. Anyway, this is definitely not the place to post character names; it can be taken as slander especially if you're wrong (and I'm not saying you must be). If Gaile wants to know about it it'll be by email or another private means, so I'd definitely wait for a response from her. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:52, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

There was a suggestion on a Guru forum that makes sense: Flag count the amount of /reports for chars going into the system. If this happens repeatedly, then it's obviously not a coincidence. Apart from that, serious leechers will obviuosly use illegal software to get into matches, i.e automated SW. This can be discovered in most cases, hopefully. I'm not talking about the ppl who go into battle and then fall asleep etc. or the legitimate leech, as you so nicely put it.

I'm not actually sure what I meant by legitimate. --ஸ Kyoshi 17:35, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Account Wrongfully Banned

Incident 110315-002876]

Hi Gaile, I need assistance on an account of mine that was banned for use of "third party" while I was actually playing the game. Nothing was used and no third party software was running except for my AV and on-screen display for my graphics card. I was not using any bot and was actually farming manually in ToPK which I have been doing for years now. I think I was caught in a sweep of A/Me bots and was banned as well since I just found out people actually bot there. I rushed to support right after I got banned just moments after it. I was even watching my title window and browsing the new changes for the drunkard title and rushed to use all my stashed drinks. Please help me out as I have not used any bots and have been loyally playing Guild Wars for year and I am working on titles on my main character (Descendant Of Zion) every now and then and also farming in ToPK to get money.

Please look into it. Thank you and waiting for your reply.

Hello. While I sympathize with what's going on, it's looks like it has only been a few minutes since you submitted your ticket. As I explained in the first post on this page, players should work with Support and allow them to address issues as fully as possible. The team is able to completely resolve the vast majority (probably 99.9%) of issues that arise. In relation to account issues, I am here to assist players who do not get a response from Support after at least three full business days -- which is very unusual -- or in cases where there may be an issue with a decision -- also quite uncommon -- or when someone needs more information about policies and procedures. You can contact me again at the end of the week if one of these applies to your situation. The core facts are that I'm not a court of appeal and I'm not a alternative source for issue resolutions. And I'm sure that folks will see that it would be inappropriate for me to move tickets up in the queue. Thanks for understanding, and good luck with the situation! -- Gaile 00:49, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Okay I'll contact and update you when I really need the assistance. Thanks for the reply and hope that everything will work out fine with my account. Thank you again!--Descendant Of Zion 00:57, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Since I haven't heard in the last week or so, I'm going to figure this issue has been resolved. I'll archive next time I do a tidy-up. -- Gaile 19:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

[Incident: 100524-001310]

Hi Gaile! Almost a year ago, following your advice from this wiki i packed two incidents regarding a account lock because of the old ncwebsite issue (number 100517-001163 and 100524-001310) into a newer one (stated on title). Till now, i have not received an e-mail answer and i was wandering if you can have a peek on the issue to check if i was lost in the supporting process (at that date it was a mess) or there is an error on my side (aka i was answered indeed). Thank you so much in advance. Ragnagard 00:59, 4 March 2011 (GMT+1)

Ok, I took a look. The incident in the title -- 100524-001310 -- was closed because it related to an earlier ticket. All info in 100524-001310 was merged into Incident 100517-001163, as I had mentioned would happen. And yes, the team did respond to you on May 29, 2010, via Incident #100517-001163, saying that the ownership verification information you had provided was not accurate. That is, the date of birth you provided was not the one that is tied to that Guild Wars account. They then offered you an alternative means to prove ownership, which is something they must do to ensure they are giving access to the actual account owner. I would suggest that you go to the NCsoft Support page and update Incident #100517-001163. Alternately, you can create a new ticket, but it would be helpful if you provide all the old ticket numbers in any new message, to speed the merging process and put all the info you've provided in the hands of the team as they review this matter again. -- Gaile 19:21, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi again, Gaile! The old ticket was closed so I created a new one gathering all the ticket numbers and also sent the Gamecard photos.I hope that's enough to go back to GW. Thanks for the support and sorry for the overwork ;). Ragnagard 22:25, 4 March 2011 (GMT+1)

Oh hey, Ragnagard, it's no trouble at all! Please let me know when everything gets sorted for you. -- Gaile 22:08, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Took a little longer (accounts config) but i'm now going to have a "new beach" session inside the game. Thanks for all Gaile!. -- Ragnagard 12:25, 8 March 2011 (GMT+1)

You're welcome, Ragnagard. Have fun with Embark Beach! :) -- Gaile 20:39, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

GW Account Wrongfully Removed

→ moved from Feedback talk:Gaile Gray

Hi, Gaile, I've been playing GW since release and this is the first time that I've addressed you. On the day of the Feature Build I discovered that my GW account was removed from my NCSoft Master Account. So I can't log in anymore. The reasoning is "We've evidence to prove that your account involved in the controversial game currency transaction"...in Aion. A game I never owned nor played. The closest relations I have with this game is seeing the Aion Wings on GW players. Please, help me retrieve my beloved account. I haven't done anything wrong. (I enlist on Monday so I might be on bootcamp for a period of time). [1]--Itamar 09:58, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

You should be sending a support ticket before coming to Gaile, and then you should be waiting until a point where support is not responding to you. Gaile is here to give support a nudge or take a second look at support tickets that players are still debating.

If you do have a support ticket relating to the incident, you should post the ticket number here. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:11, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

It sounds as if you have been discussing this with Support, and I am more than happy to help, but I will need the 12-digit Incident (Ticket) Number in order to start some research on this situation. Thanks. -- Gaile 03:59, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Incident 110302-001504

Hi Gaile

I hope you can help with the incident number above. My Guild Leader has been banned for botting, more precisely for using the G15 for the drunkard title last week on a different account to his main account. Firstly the wrong account had been banned and the community was under the impression that whilst the G15 maybe against the EULA in some areas that appropriate use was fine e.g. drunkard title. Not to make money or abuse or exploit the game. The following day drunkard becomes spammable which makes the G15 timer macro redundant. I hope you can help with this incident to a very loyal guild wars fan.

Thank you.

First, I should point out that it's always preferable for a player to post here directly, rather than having a friend or family member post on his/her behalf. However, I know you're trying to help, so I'll give you what info I can in a generic sense. Despite design changes made via the March 3rd update -- changes that ease a player's ability to achieve the Drunkard title -- using a macro or an auto-clicker is still disallowed, as it always has been. (And yes, I actively confirmed that fact with our Live team, since we have had team member changes and I wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.) Our consistent and continuing requirement is that players must play the game. Using a macro, tool, utility, AFK bot, exploit, or any other means of progressing in the game without the player's active involvement is prohibited. Such accounts are subject to action, up to and including termination. -- Gaile 21:01, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you Gaile for taking the time to respond. I understand where you are coming from, my friend and I understand that it was against the EULA to use the G15. However, I know Anet have sometimes turnd a blind eye to the drunkard title due to its awkward implementation, you only need to look at afk nine rings to see many folks using something similar. Having said that, whilst it was wrong, the wrong account had been banned in this instance. He freely admits to using the G15, but the wrong account was banned. Please have a look at the incident and if you are going to uphold the ban, please ban the correct account. His main account had already achived drunkard title two years ago.

Again thank you for looking into this. Silver

Hi Gaile. It's Cliff,

Silver was talking on my behalf as I was not sure how to set up and post on the wiki page. Silver is correct on what he has said. I totally admit to using the G15 macro for a drunkard title on a different account to my main account. I know it was wrong, but in this case my main account was banned instead of the account that the macro was used for.Please feel free to e-mail me if you wish to discuss this further....Please Gaile you are my last and only hope to get this resolved.

Hi Cliff. I can check the ticket, but perhaps it's easier to ask you here -- have you pointed out the "wrong account blocked" situation to Support? -- Gaile 21:47, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile for responding. Yes I have pointed this out but they claim I was botting all the time and not looked into the wrong account being banned, I know I was using the G15 but not on the account that was perma banned.

hi Gaile Gray if you would like any more information please let me know and i look forward to hearing from you soon, Cliff. 10 March 2011

I have sent off an email to enable a discussion with one of the senior agents. It seems highly unlikely one account would be suspended or terminated based on what happened on another account, so my first thought is that both accounts were somehow involved in a UA breach. But I will follow up with the team to learn more. -- Gaile 21:06, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Having just heard from my associate and after looking at the data he provided me, the account that was blocked was involved in the use of an auto-clicker. (Yes, the account that was blocked, not a different account.) The termination is unrelated to use of the G15 Keyboard. Use of an auto-clicker was and remains disallowed in Guild Wars. I want to point out that there is a difference between going AFK on 9 Rings and using an autoclicker program. Being AFK doesn't require any clicking; using a program that clicks while you're absent -- or while you're chatting in the GH or playing on another account -- is cheating. -- Gaile 22:11, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Gaile, I would like you to reconsider the ban on Cliff's account. I have played a lot of GW, account Omnis Cure, and in this time I have gotten to know Cliff as well as one can know someone over the internet. I can tell you with absolute certainty that he would not do something that would negatively impact the game or that he felt was a violation of the game's policy. If Cliff was using a bot to win matches in PvP or to farm gold, then I would congratulate you for moderating the game well in order for the game to remain fun. However, I wonder why ANET feels that banning someone for using an auto click for the drunk title would create a positive impact on the game? It was well known that before the recent update it was pretty ridiculous to achieve the drunk title, having people continuously mapping out of towns or just staring at the timer to know when to use the next alcohol. I am sure this is the reason that the drunk title was changed so that the points are now spammable, great update by the way. Personally I feel that using an auto clicker for obtaining the drunk title would be along the same lines as using a text mod for completing an explorer title. The player obtaining the drunk title still needs to collect the resources to obtain the alcohol and then to take the time to get the alcohol itself. The clicker just takes out a tedious part of the game that wasn't fun. The clicker doesn't negatively impact the game, no one loses a match because of it, no items or materials become devalued because they are overfarmed due to it. If the clicker ruined the game for someone else, than I would feel differently about this ban, but I don't think you will find many people who would feel negatively impacted because someone used an auto clicker to get the drunk title. The clicker circumvented a part of the game that ANET agreed wasn't something that should have been a part of the game, again great update. Cliff is such an avid supporter of GW that I really think it would be a shame to have him stop playing. Cliff has helped out countless people enjoy GW. He has taught people everything from killing Mallyx, to capping flags in AB, to running relics in HA, and everything in between. He got more titles on his account than anyone else that I know, which is pretty amazing. 99.9999% of these titles were accomplished by playing throughout early mornings, rainy afternoons and late nights; without the use of any third party programs or macros. Again, please reconsider this ban as I think that this will only take away from GW, not add to it.

Thank you,

Omni --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Omni co (talk).

Gaile Gray;

As you stated above, Cliff's account has been block due to the use of an auto-clicker, under the basis that the use of an auto-clicker is cheating (i.e. it violates section 22 of the rules of conduct that refers to third-party programs).

Section 14 of the EULA states NC Interactive's right to suspend or terminate an account and describes the basis for which a suspention or termation can occur. As a basis for suspention or termination it states "upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct."

It is clear that Arena Net feels that Cliff violated the Rules of Conduct; but I do not feel it was in violation of the spirit of the game.

• It was not an intentional violation of the rules of conduct
• It did not negatively affect the game or other players
• No items or gold were obtained
• It still required him to obtain the items (alcohol)
• It still required the same amount of in game time

The spirit of the game commonly refers to both sportsmanship and honor. Sportsmanship usually refering to the use of respect and fairness in the interaction between players; and honor meaning the conscious effort to play within the rules. Cliff never intentionally violated the rules of conduct.

Many players are confused as to what does and does not violate the spirit of the game, with respect to the drunkard title. With the release of the update to the drunkard title, Arena Net made this statement: "Players previously attained points by having characters spend time drunk, maxing out at 10,000 minutes. This method was convoluted and not clearly explained; players did not receive points unless they were at a minimum tier of drunkenness. Because players went down a tier for every minute spent drunk, many players had to use counterintuitive methods for keeping track of their progress on the title. The new version of acquisition is easier to understand and does not rely on hidden systems."

It is clear with this statement that Arena Net agrees that there was confusion with regards to the drunkard title and that is a reason for the update. I personally know of several players (including entire guilds) that promoted and used the auto-clicker with no intention of violating the Rules of Conduct or the spirit of the game.

It was never Cliff's intention to do anything wrong and he has always supported and contributed greatly to Guild Wars (and the Guild Wars community). With that being said and the wide confusion surrounding the drunkard title, it is my hope that Arena Net will implement a suspension (including the time during which the account has been blocked and under review) of Cliff's account instead of a termination; so that he can continue to support and contribute to Arena Net and their vision.

Thank you for your support and attention. I am looking forward to your response.

Sincerely,

Michael Gill

Mechanical Engineer

Proud Supporter of Arena Net --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.73.70.68 (talk).

A few comments to address your points, one by one:

1. I don't know of anyone who downloads, uses, and promotes the use of a cheat program who is not involved in an "intentional violation of the User Agreement."
2. Every time someone gains a title through a cheat, it lowers the perceived "specialness" of the titles for those who earn it legitimately. Saying that cheating for a title has no impact on others is simply untrue.
3. The fact that one did not earn items or gold through a cheat is immaterial. Obviously, gold and items are not the only things of value in Guild Wars.
4. I think a large number of players would agree that the most daunting part of gaining the title is not gaining the items, it's spending the time.
5. Of course the title took the same amount of time. The point isn't time spent, it's quality of time or the focus during the time spent. Was the time spent in acquiring the title? Or was it spent having a sandwich, watching TV, sleeping, or even playing on a secondary account whilst the other one "earned" the title.

Questions that I wonder about: How could someone use this program and not see that it was a cheat? How could someone bot a title and say he'd never used a bot? Why the denial of using such a program (until it was clear we knew it had been used)? There are other points of concern: The claim that the wrong account was blocked; the possibility that someone else was on the account (and using the cheat program) in order to acquire the title for the account holder. In the end, is it possible for someone to use a cheat program and still be following "the spirit of the game?" Is "the spirit of the game" subject to personal interpretation to conform to each player's own standards and views? Or is "the spirit of the game" expressed and enforced -- as I believe it is -- through the User Agreement and the Rules of Conduct?

The matter is complicated, and I promise that I will look into it again. But if I should come to have any further dialogue about this, with anyone, I expect complete and full honesty. Not prevarication, not disingenuousness, not personal interpretation of a community-wide set of rules. For it is only with honesty that we can come to the best possible outcome, for the individual player and for the community as a whole. -- Gaile 04:54, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Gaile Gray;

Thank you for the fast response, we all really appreciate it. It was not my intent so speak with prevarication or to be disingenuous. If that is the way it sounded then I sincerely apologize. I understand that what I wrote was my interpretation of the rules and I should have made that clear. I was only trying to communicate why several of us feel that what Cliff did isn't deserving of his account being terminated, but rather suspended. I understand that this decision is in Arena Net's sole discretion; I am just trying to get my point of view across.

I am new to Guild Wars and have a fairly small amount of experience. In the small experience that I have, it was my understanding that the Guild Wars community viewed an auto-clicker as tolerated by Arena Net. I have not personally used an auto-clicker, but I have heard many players promote it by describing it as comparable to 9 rings and texmod. I have been told by multiple players that because an auto-clicker doesn't move your character, you are unable to do anything else while it is running, it still requires the player to obtain the items, and it takes the same amount of time, that Arena Net tolerates its use. I understand that the use of an auto-clicker is wrong and violates the Rules of Conduct and am not trying to argue otherwise. I am just trying to communicate the level of confusion that there is surrounding the use of an auto-clicker. Also, I think that some confusion may have come from players who gained the drunkard title through the use of an auto-clicker and never had Arena Net take action against their account. I can understand why many players, including Cliff, may have viewed an auto-clicker as a tolerated method instead of a blatant cheat (i.e. a "bot").

Thank you for taking a second look into the matter.

Sincerely,

Michael Gill Mechanical Engineer Proud Supporter of Arena Net

Hi Gaile Gray,

Thank you for taking a second look into the matter of my account. I just wanted to respond to your statement by clarifying that I never used what I considered to be a "bot." I never used a third party program (what some refer to as "the drunk bot"), but a macro that I myself created on my G15 Logitech keyboard. I have been open and honest in admiting that I did use a macro in obtaining the drunkard title partially on a recent account; and I do admit to using the macro on this account (3 years ago). I can provide you with a copy of the macro I created and used if that would be helpful.

When my account was initially blocked, I was confused with regards to the reasoning being that a "bot" had been used on the account. I did not consider a basic macro to be a "bot." That is why I denied any use of a "bot" on this account. I aquired the drunkard title approximately 3 years ago with the use of my G15 macro. Because of the length of time between then and now, it didn't initially occur to me that the macro was the cause for action being taken against the account. At the time that Arena Net took action against my account, I had been using it on another account and admit to having recently used the macro on that account. You can understand why when I realized that the term "bot" may be refering to the macro, I thought the wrong account had been blocked. I hope Arena Net understands my confusion over something that happened so long ago. I am sorry if anything I said came across as dishonest.

With the recent changes to the drunkard title, and the confusion that Mr.Gill has discussed, I am only hoping for leniancy in a suspension instead of a termination of my account.

Thank you again for your time,

Cliff

Bots are basically glorified macros from a technical perspective of this rule. The spirit of it is that you are having a sequence repeat to play the game for you.

On an unrelated note, could you two please indent your posts? You do so by adding a number of colons before your comment (as you should see while editing), and traditionally, you add one more than the person before you did unless you intend to reset the indent. It helps keep wiki discussions organized. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:50, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Gaile really appreciate your efforts, would be grateful to know any likely outcomes, hopefully positive. Many many thanks. Cliff --Legendary H E R O[2] 19:59, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Support Site Down Time

We wanted to let you know that the NCsoft Support Site will be offline this evening while some of our support tools are upgraded. The upgrade project will begin at about 8:00 PM Pacific time on March 9, or 4:00 AM GMT on March 10. The process will take about five hours, and during that time the Guild Wars support site will be unavailable, meaning you won't be able to view the Knowledge Base, submit new tickets, or view/update old tickets via the website during that time. In-game petitions and e-mail will be queued until the sites are back up, so nothing will be lost. :) If you try to log into your Master Account in the five-hour span, you will see a "Please check in a little later" message, in which case we invite you to log in after 1:00 AM Pacific time or 09:00 GMT. -- Gaile 01:02, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Update: All went just fine with the upgrades and the systems were back on line as predicted. -- Gaile 22:12, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for letting us know in advance and for posting the outcome.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 22:38, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Promoting Christianity in-game

Lately, I stumbled on this christian guild, which blatantly states on their page: ""We take our relationship with Him very seriously and consider this guild to be a wonderful way to be able to worship and serve Him and spread His good news to the Guild Wars world."". Now, freedom of religion is one thing, but throwing it into someone's face and promoting a religious view is something entirely different. Besides, the Rules of Conduct Explicitly say this:

""8. You may not market, promote, advertise, or solicit within the Guild Wars game or on the official Guild Wars websites."" It literally states promoting in any way is prohibited, including promoting religious views. Can you do something about this guild? Koda 20:58, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Besides their name, have you actually seen them solicit in-game? --JonTheMon 21:01, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Does that matter? They deliberately violate the rules of conduct, that is the issue here. Koda 21:03, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

It's a freaking video game, does it really have to put up with this? —smøni 21:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I do not much like when people force their religious views on others, but any action couldn't be taken against the whole guild could it? --'Mai Yi' {TC} 21:09, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Just report it to support and let them sort it out. No need to bother Gaile with it. --Lania 21:10, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Not to bash them down, as I am a Christian myself (Although, hey, if I chose to believe, so can you not to), but I have seen them advertise, mainly in Lion's Arch. And yes, it gets annoying, not only because of the spam, but also because it generates huge troll wars. -- Large 21:25, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) What you see on the website you "stumbled on" is irrelevant. What matters is what any group does in the game. Someone posting occasionally seeking guild members for a Christian guild is no more prohibited than someone inviting folks to join a guild made up of Eagle Scouts or plumbers. Or PvP Players. ;) If they spam, report them. If they are simply doing what every other group does, and you are not interested in joining their group, then I suggest you simply ignore them. -- Gaile 07:37, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Large, I would suggest that if their simple, non-spammed guild invitations are spawning troll wars, then the trolls are at fault, not the guild members. Feel free to contact me if you see such a situation, with date, time, and any character name you see involved in the issue and I will look into it. And of course, if the guild members are guilty of spamming or of aggressive or otherwise unacceptable behavior, they will be actioned accordingly. -- Gaile 07:40, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

were playing a game based around the beliefs of a set of gods and religions, wanting to remove a guild cause they worship someone irl is almost as silly as removing one thats called followers of grenth for example, thats just my oppinion on the matter though, i cant see any reason personally to remove someone based on their beliefs isnt that technically being recist (possibly wrong one)?Spark-TBa 11:13, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I have seen this guild advertising, but as far as I remember they are simply advertising their guild which happens to be christian. I am not a fan of christianity, to put it mildly, but speaking objectively I don't think they are breaking any rules. If they were trying to convince people about their truth or jesus or whatever then it'd be different. But in the end advertising a christian guild is no different in that sense than advertising for kurzick or luxon guilds. These people that I've seen advertising don't usually involve themselves in the troll discussions. It's other people who respond to that. So let me say that I, as an anti-christian do not see the problem,since, in my experience they haven't tried to convince anyone about there beliefs....and I do believe in equal rights Et In Gehenna Vixi... 21:40, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Actually, they are breaking rules, both on this wiki and in-game, by promoting their cause. Koda 15:13, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Gaile just said it isn't. Don't start this up again when it's already been resolved. --ஸ Kyoshi 16:05, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Let's chat about security again.

I know, you're probably still tired of me from the last time, but let's rap here for a second! Yesterday my girlfriend and I discovered that sometime in the past 48 hours or so, her Guild Wars account was absconded with. We've submitted a ticket to get it resolved, but there are some things that are bothering me about the situation, and I thought maybe you'd like to look into them. Now ArenaNet added the requirement of a character name in order to log in to accounts, so whoever removed her character from our guild definitely had that. And NCSoft recently added a new security measure that requires you to verify the computer you are logging in on, so you'd assume they had that too, but here's the kicker: my girlfriend, in her infinite wisdom six or so years ago, created the account with a false birth date that she can't remember now, which prevents her from verifying her log in location as NCSoft requires her to provide that date in order to log in. So somehow somebody figured out the false date not even she can remember, along with the second security answer, and got into the master account and changed her account password, either before or shortly after logging into her game account and doing who knows what as of yet. This strikes me as a bit strange and improbable, as having an email address, game password, character name, NCSoft account name (not related to the game account name), NCSoft account password (not the same as the game account password), and answers to two security questions (one answer as mentioned unknown to even the account holder) would be quite a lot for someone to obtain from a person who isn't allowed to stop making me sandwiches long enough to give any information out or click any fishy links. Before I start blaming it on security flaws though, I thought we could talk about it. I've really got no idea what happened here, but I figured you might have some insight as an employee of NCSoft. Oh, and if you want to follow the ticket for whatever information gets brought up there as we work it out with Support, it's Incident 110313-000462. -Faer 07:16, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Just FYI... you don't need NCMA login credentials to change your guildwars password. The Guildwars client password can be changed from within the game itself, thus locking account access unless changed through the NCMA or via Anet account lock. So all the account thief needs is the email, password, and character name, and wouldn't need the answers to the birth date or the security questions. Now that the NCsoft master account's security is boosted, I suspect that the GW client is now the weak link in account security. And as far as "fishy" websites go, some attack sites look benign as it can be. One attack site i looked at was a fake update to firefox. Yes, it knew what browser I was using as well as the correct version. If I had allowed it to install the "fake update", my computer probably would have been compromised with malware. I dunno, maybe this might help figure out what happened. Also FYI, I am not affiliated with Anet or NCsoft in any capacity other than I love to play their game :). --Lania 08:04, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

You can't change or reset your game password from within the client when it is linked to an NCSoft Master Account, and haven't been able to for some time now. -Faer 08:29, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

You can't reset the password from the login screen, but you can change the password after you've logged in. Also, when you change the password this way they is no email notification sent unlike when you reset it from the NCMA. (This should really be changed, IMO.) --Valshia 16:48, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

I see. Yes, I agree, that certainly needs changed. -Faer 17:45, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

For further reading on passwords and attack websites-> User:Lania Elderfire/Rant/Passwords. --Lania 18:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Working in web development, I'm not so unfamiliar with the subject of clickjacking and malicious scripting that I require reading material from the wiki of a video game, but thanks for the concern. I merely overlooked the possibility to change a password from the client after already being logged in, without the requirement of verification (perhaps ArenaNet should follow the steps of many companies and require validation of the request through e-mail before accepting the password change request placed from the character selection screen). -Faer 19:02, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh, you again, eh Faer? :) Seriously, though, I am sorry about the account theft. I would say that now that you understand the game password can be changed from within the account, that would explain what took place. (There is still the question of how someone knew user name, password, and character name, of course.) I'm going to let Support give you more information when they are able to address the ticket. I think the reason that a password-change email is not sent to the email address that forms the GW user name is that (1) players may have used a "pretend" email when creating the account (there's no verification system that proves proves the email address is authentic, something I regret, actually), (2) players may have used an email to which they no longer have access, so sending a notification falls into a void. I guess there's a further possibility: (3) if someone loses ownership of his email account, sending an email about an account change plays into the hands of the email account thief, but I think that one's a pretty remote possibility, particularly since the email doesn't say "You changed your password to [insert password here]" it simply says "you changed your password."

Having said that, I am going to pass along the suggestion that we do send an email for both NCMA and in-game password changes. Decisions of these sort don't rest with me, but I think it's a valid suggestion and I'll share it with the team. (And share it with the GW2 team, as well.) Thanks. -- Gaile 17:58, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Oh hi. Yeah I still don't know exactly how her information got out (apparently to gold sellers? Weird. We barely even play GW anymore) but I'm going to do some digging. Could very well be that she snuck out of the kitchen... At any rate, some quick comments on stuff! (1) Something for everyone to think about for GW2, perhaps. Making sure that there is a (verified) method of contact is important! (2) I know that feeling. One of my accounts uses an e-mail address tied to a long dead website, but at least it's linked to my NCMA so I can still get support for it (yeah okay so maybe I don't hate the NCMA system entirely). (3) Yes, it is certainly always a concern that someone may have lost control of their e-mail address if they have lost control of another online account, especially in cases of both using the same password; still though, since both being compromised isn't always the case, the verification e-mail would be very nice, as it would prevent unwanted password changes in some cases (when the e-mail account is still locked nice and tight), and if your e-mail has been compromised they are going to be changing your password anyway, so it wouldn't hurt that situation any. Thanks for passing the idea along, I'm sure a lot of players will appreciate it, especially if we get tighter account security for GW2 from day one, which should help to prevent another huge wave of stuff going missing like what happened in... what was it, 2009? Been doing this community stuff for too many years to keep track of it all. -Faer 02:25, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree -- people using a real, honest-to-goodness contact email address would be a good thing. I'd like to make sure they do, maybe verify their identity (email address, taht is) when setting up the account. No fake email address, a real one that you access and verify before you play. Of course, folks move, they change ISPs, they get a new account... and in cases like that, they can leave behind a trail of dead email accounts. I was actually thinking just now, what if somehow the game verified that you were who you were via email before you logged in? And then I smacked my forehead and said "What are you thinking!?" Can you imagine the pain in the patootie it would be to somehow verify "Yep, I'm still Fred at Fred.com, please let me into my account." :) Still, I think there is a definite tie to real, verifiable information and security. -- Gaile 06:01, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

NCSoft Support Email

Hi Gaile, I'm having a bit of a dilemma, I tried to log into my account about a week or two of inactivity and my password wasn't working; I kept on getting the 227 error code even though all of my details were saved and I'm pretty sure I didn't mistype my password repeatedly. Apparently, as below, my account was accessed by gold sellers and I have no idea how, because I've never given my account info to anyone, posted anything stupid on any forum and use anti-virus software, etc, etc. I emailed the support team and the email that I got back was the following:

Hello,

Your account was blocked because it was accessed by gold sellers. We will be happy to help you recover your account, but will need you to verify your account information first.

What first and last name did you use when you created the account? What street address did you use when you created the account? What date of birth did you use when you created the account? What are the 25 digit retail access keys currently registered to your Guild Wars game account? (Please include the retail access keys from each campaign.) What is your Guild Wars login name? What are the last 4 digits of the credit/debit card used to make any Guild Wars purchases online from us? (if applicable)

Regards, GM ApplePython The Guild Wars Support Team

I know its of the right format, but I'm still a bit dubious, and I can't remember my access keys - I bought my account online and the card I used doesn't exist anymore... 94.169.250.10 23:01, 21 March 2011 (UTC)Dusk Spectre

That's a pretty standard reply. They need to verify the information you gave them originally so they know it's really you trying to gain access, and not another hacker. Just give them everything you can and they'll get you fixed up.-- Pyron Sy 23:04, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

No request for your password or anything else sensitive. Looks legit, especially if you got it as a direct reply to your email. --ஸ Kyoshi 03:26, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

As Kyoshi said, we need to make sure that you're you. Or that you're the owner of the account. :) Please go ahead and provide the information. For added security, instead of answering the email, you could log into the NCsoft Support Site and update your ticket. That would perhaps put your mind at rest and would accomplish the needed verifications that allow the team to help you get back on your account. -- Gaile 19:12, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Possible hacked or deleted account?? (Incident: 110428-001257)

Hi Gaile.

For some reason my account appears to either been hacked or outright deleted by NCsoft/Anet without any prior notice. I cant seem to login and every time i attempt to login it gives me a code 227. When i attempted to reset my password, but that was hours ago and i haven't received any emails. If someone managed to hack my account shouldn't i at least get an email asking me to confirm the changes?? So I am at a loss. and NCsoft support have gone quiet on me.

I havent really been playing at all over the last two weeks, and i have always been careful with my login details so i dont see how my account details could have been stolen. the thing is, I also have a second account i use as a storage account. and i cant login with that account either which leads me to believe that the my accounts have either been blocked or deleted by NCsoft.

MangoMamba said he/she was escalating my support ticket to Guild Wars senior staff members. but that was hours ago. Is there any chance of getting some follow up on whats happening?? (Incident: 110428-001257)

anything you can give me to calm my OCD would be great. I dont want to lose everything that i have achieved on my accounts not to mention all the sets of elite armours, weapons and shields i will lose if the account is hacked or deleted :( PLEASE HELP MEEE!!! the suspense is killing me (literally) and i cant stop thinking that the worst has happened and i have lost EVERYTHING :( Belladonna Imperia

Read the first section, let support do their thing. Gaile is kind of a last resort, and should only be asked to look into things after 3 business days have elapsed. Good luck. -- FreedomBound 14:13, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

its not easy to ignore something for 3days if you have OCD. I have been trying some old passwords from the top of my head for the last hour on my main and secondary account. and i still cant get into it. If i cant get into it by tonight then im gonna commit harakiri. If my account has been hacked/deleted and I have lost all of my weapons, and armours i will commit harakiri. because this is the first time ever i have had this happen to my account, and theres nothing i can do about it but sit here and bitch and whine about wanting my account back. good day to you sir! Belladonna Imperia

I didn't say it would take three days, but posting here when you've admitted that it has only been hours doesn't do anyone any good. Heck, Gaile probably won't even see this before you get a response from support. By the way, if you have a NCSoft Master Account, I don't think the password reset works. You have to login through the master account and change it through there. Best bet would be to relax and wait for support, though, because I imagine that if someone sends an email hysterical about an account breach, if it wasn't locked before, that's the first thing they did. -- FreedomBound 15:18, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I cant even get into my NCsoft account.... Ive told them that too! the only conclusion that i have drawn is that they have blocked/deleted both accounts because I log into both accounts to trade between them and they might of thought one of the accounts might have been hacked and transferring items to the hackers account. thats why they blocked me without prior notice. otherwise a friend of mine says im still on the guild roster -- if that means anything at all. Belladonna Imperia

1. Even if your account was blocked, you should still be able to logon to your NCSoft account; ANet doesn't have any direct control over that.
2. Even though you aren't seeing a response from support, they are probably working on it. Often (as noted by Freeedom Bound), the team will take action to prevent further actions by hackers, then take time to investigate the situation more fully, before getting back to you. It's also possible that one group has noticed the account issue, but another is working on your ticket.
3. Gaile's role is to step in if the support team isn't keeping up to their standards of service. As described above, that means that you should expect a reply within 3 business days of your original posted ticket (longer if you create more tickets). If that does not happen or if you feel Support misunderstood the issues involved, Gaile can ask them to take a closer look.

I'm very sorry that you don't have access to the accounts. I hope things turn out well for you. Good luck.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:38, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

thanks guys :) Finally had a response from a GM -- apparently BOTH accounts were accessed/used by gold sellers....Hopefully the gold sellers didnt find my hidden ecto stash.... Belladonna Imperia

Arghh! Soz you wuz robbed :-( (I hope they locked the accounts before too much was lost.) Good luck.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The team is still working on this, as the ticket is less than 24 hours old. I hope that you have checked your email account(s) for security, and that you've done password changes wherever they might be prudent. The team will continue to assist you, and of course if you have continuing questions, you're welcome to check in with me (but please allow at least a few business days before doing so). Thanks. -- Gaile 21:35, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile, I'm still working with the team, they have asked to change my password. and i have done so TWICE from my master NCsoft account but i still am unable to login. I want to know if them hackers emptied my account Belladonna Imperia

I think support systems have glitched and they have given up on me lol. still cant login Belladonna Imperia

Still locked out of my account. support says my account has been unblocked and i have been instructed to change the password time and time again, and i have done it, but i still cant login. when i still click the 'reset password' link in the login screen and enter my email address into the box, I dont receive an email back with a new temporary password which means my account is still blocked. I know its blocked because i tried the password reset before i contacted support and nothing happened. I have tried the password reset 5 times last night and i haven't received a single email yet -- account is still blocked. Belladonna Imperia

Is there any way to restore what was deleted or taken from my account...? almost everything is gone, my ectos, my armours, my weapons n shields.... :( I see what im left with and i no longer want to play Gw Belladonna Imperia

Unfortunately not. Once your items are gone, they are gone for good.-- Pyron Sy 20:17, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Oh well...Goodbye Gaile, and everyone who still plays. I'll see you all in GW2. Belladonna Imperia

Account Wrongfully Banned 2

Account Termination!! [Incident: 110324-003077]‏

Ive been wrongfully banned for this issue i feel like its all one sided and support isnt listening to what im saying or trying to say. This guy gave one of my friends his accounti have all the message logs of him in msn telling him that he dosnt play anymore and that there is stuff on the account he could have then after my friend took a few things from the account thinking it was ok he didnt even try to change the password or anything from the account then the next afternoon when i get home from work i find out that my account and 3 of my other room mates accounts have all been banned then this guy sends my friend the email from a GM showing he sent it into support showing 4 accounts have been involved in this ban and he said hes laughing at me... How is this right? ive tryed saying my side of the story but i keep getting the same awnser all im basically getting is ok if i give someone my account then tell support it was stolen they will be banned even when someone says it was ok for them to have it but i changed my mind so the other person gets banned? i spent over 3500 hours on my account i grinded for everything i own i had 7 sets of obsidian armor and over 300 ectos in stash 50/50 in HoM earned from legit playing. I feel like the support is all one sided.. --Xamthrax 07:27, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I am looking at the ticket and I am confused. Are you the person to whom the original account holder allegedly gave the account? Or are you someone who got onto the account to take off some items? How did your account get involved? Thanks. -- Gaile 19:36, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

A bit more:

1. Do you have the logs of the conversation that purported to give away the account? If you do, attached the logs to your ticket. I must say, however, that such logs can easily be faked, as we have no way of verifying that someone on an IM system is the same someone whose account was accessed. I mean, it may be the same character name, but there's no verification system between Messenger or Vent or TeamSpeak and our game, so we can't say with certainty, "There is the account holder, 100% certain, giving away his account." You are free to share those logs, though.
2. Every Guild Wars player has to know that second-hand accounts are bad news on many levels.
3. Do you have the ticket numbers of the other players who were banned in this incident?
4. If he wanted to give away his items, why didn't he get on the account and hand them off in trade? Why give his account credentials to someone else? That reads as either very foolish or very suspicious.
5. Equally suspicious is the fact that multiple accounts are often involved in account hacking, where one player learns of an account's credentials and then says "Hey, here are the credentials -- go ahead and take what you want." I am not saying that is what took place, but I've definitely seen that scenario, and that would lead to the termination of all accounts involved.

I'll look forward to getting more info. -- Gaile 19:53, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about the messy writing. I never logged in the account my friend told me this guy quit guild wars and gave him his account i seen the chat on msn to verify it wasnt a scam/hack so i didnt see a problem with yeah taking a few things. It was my room mate who started this all and i was the only one who submitted a ticket on behalf of us all should i tell them to submit ones also? and he gave away the account because he said he was done with guild wars. I do have the logs but its not screenshot format so i dont think it would help because yes it can be easily faked like an accusation of being hacked/scammed by innocent people. Also only two accounts were acctually involved in this but all accounts on the ip were banned? I cant believe this happend to me i know what gets happend to hackers/scammers my account was hacked before and a GM told me that they got who did it why would i risk it when i know i would get banned?--Xamthrax 21:29, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

So this is it.. i get banned for something i didnt do? thanks im really happy about wasting 3500 hour of my life for guild wars 2. The support wasnt helpful at all i worked so hard for all my things and for what to get banned for stealing items when i didnt "steal" this is ridiculous.. warning to everybody dont use someone elses account you can get banned no questions asked.--Xamthrax 04:27, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Funny how your final sarcastic comment is exactly the case; the EULA, strictly speaking, says that only one person is allowed to use an account. Also, nobody but you and your friend can tell for sure that you didn't gain unauthorized access. It'd probably be best for your friend (who owns the account and can reclaim it, yes?) to get in touch with support as well, and perhaps some of this can be cleared up. --ஸ Kyoshi 05:16, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, accessing another person's account is going to lead to trouble in a lot of cases. Even with permission, there are too many things that can go wrong. As I suggested, simply giving someone your items if you decide to quit the game is much safer, and honestly, it doesn't take all that long! After all, it's unlikely a veteran player will want a bunch of wood planks and bones. :)

In answer to your question, each person whose account was terminated needs to contact Support directly. We can't accept appeals from a friend. The team really needs to have a discussion with the actual account holder in each case. -- Gaile 05:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

e-mail

hi gaile i have been told in the past if i need to discuss something specific i can do via GWW mail, i have a subject that i wish to discuss with someone urgently, but am unsure how to open gww mail, can you help me pls. this isnt a wiki problem,its a guildwars one im not sure who should be responsible and i dont wish to discuss it openly with someone.Spark-TBa 15:00, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Just click "E-mail this user" in the toolbox on the left. That will bring up the page to email Gaile directly.-- Pyron Sy 15:05, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

ty  :)Spark-TBa 15:06, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

i may be about to make myself sound really stupid, but i cant find a link that says e-mail this user. :PSpark-TBa 15:09, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

You used the "find" command on your browser? FYI it doesn't show while you are in edit mode. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 15:58, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

i hadnt used the find command, but when doing so it only shows 2 responses, one in the first section at the top where it says to contact via email, and another where gaile says to use it. :PSpark-TBa 16:04, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

On the left of the screen, you'll see the navigation box, the search box, the support box, and beneath that the toolbox, which contains the email user link.-- Pyron Sy 16:41, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

i get the following in that box no matter what screen im on,,,what links here, related changes, upload file, special pages, printable version, permanent link and transclusion list. nothing about email.Spark-TBa 16:56, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

ok after 2 hours of you guys trying to help me its sorted, the email adress in my preferences wasnt confirmed, ty for all the help you gave me though, it was much appreciated.Spark-TBa 17:36, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

hi gaile, i sent you an email at the time of my last post about an issue, was wondering if it was usefull info/anything came from it.Spark-TBa 16:20, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi Spark. I sent that over to the team and asked them to give it a close look. I haven't checked back with them -- I've been really busy -- but I can do so if you think it's still pertinent. I can assure you that while the people involved may have been acting inappropriately, there was no actual "hacking" going on! -- Gaile 03:14, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

just hoping that the peoples accounts were safe, no need to chase it up if its been looked into, ty.Spark-TBa 08:19, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

We're good on that. It's strange what people will say, like "You whispered to me, now I can hack your account." I mean, that's just plain silly, but people do say such things from time to time. This is a different sort of case, but yeah, just so much hooey. :) -- Gaile 20:19, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Account issue

Hi Gaile,

Sorry to come and nag you on your talk page - but I was wondering if you could give someone a little nudge for me? I opened a ticket (ref 110316-001526) last week, yet since it was escalated on the 18th to senior support staff I've heard nothing at all. I guess I'd just like some reassurance that it is being looked into, as I'd very much like my account back at some point in the near future! At the moment, the lack of any new response at all for 4 days now is putting a downer on what has so far been a pretty decent support response in a rather unpleasant situation. Thanks for taking the time to read this - and I hope 4 days is a long enough of time frame for me to not come off as totally impatient with this! yger talk 14:39, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

They don't work on weekends, which is half the time right there. elix Omni 15:23, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

That makes all kinds of crazy sense! /doh. I'll get back to waiting. :( yger talk 15:32, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

4 days doesn't necessarily give off the impatient vibe (for some) but Gaile prefers waiting a full week until support hasn't responded to contact her about it. --ஸ Kyoshi 17:08, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, I was going off the what she wrote at the top of the page - where she states 3 days. But hey ho! Got a response back. My account was well and truely raided, but it's nothing I can't work on getting back. At least I have my characters. I'm more miffed that whoever raided my account reset my UI! Please consider this issue sorted, Gaile. yger talk 18:37, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Dang, Lyger, sorry to hear. But I admire your good attitude, and as irritating as it is to have that happen, it's great to just buck up and move on. :) -- Gaile 05:46, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Problems in EU Guild Halls

Yesterday a problem crept up where players were experiencing wonky behavior with their Guild Hall when they they accessed the GH from a European districts. (They were fine if they accessed from another region.) The problem was diagnosed as a cross-Atlantic connectivity issue, and it cleared up after a few hours. However, it's baaaaack. Please be aware that the team is aware of the return of this issue and they've routed their notes and observations over to a network team that will look into the matter in depth. Thanks for your patience. -- Gaile 19:07, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for keeping us up-to-date.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:11, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

It seems to be more extensive than just European districts. For both my accounts, there's no access to the GH from European, American or International districts. Further, appearing in a European district removes the guild tag from the characters completely, and has no guild roster info available either. The guild was originally created as a European guild (before the ability to freely swap regions) so I suspect that's why - but it is affecting all districts for us, not just European ones. Connecting from Australia, if that matters. 210.1.195.174 00:58, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the additional information. I will apprise the Network Team of these new details. -- Gaile 19:12, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

It affects all aspects of the European districts as it seems that this is where the issue is, either on that server(s) specifically, or as Gaile said a few days ago, or from the communication issue. Jumping to a US server, which I was able to do the other day temporarily fixed the problem.

However, friends are commenting on Code 13 errors, which is the wiki is to be believed may be a server side issue. I'm directing as many people as who tell me about this issue to send a Support Ticket, however, as I'm sure Gaile is aware most people just like to jump up and down and fling their poo (excuse the phrase) than actually do something to try and help the situation. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 19:31, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Update: 28 March 2011

As you can see above, there were issues with the guild server(s) last Thursday related to cross-Atlantic connectivity issues. Those corrected themselves within a few hours. However, some Guild Wars players have continued to see problems related to guilds since that time. The server team just restarted a couple of key servers, and they believe that the restart will clear things up. Please let me know (or update your support ticket) if you continue to have issues. Thanks. -- Gaile 19:29, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye out. Nice work. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 19:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

New update: Network Engineering has identified an issue with one of our peers. We don’t control the routing, since it’s not directly to us but rather using external providers between data centers (as is the norm). Network Engineering has opened a ticket with the team for their attention, and we hope they will be troubleshooting this issue ASAP. Thanks for your continued patience. -- Gaile 20:43, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

We had access to the GH from US districts last night (with some error 13's earlier in the day), but have lost it again this evening (currently 10pm). I'm assuming the Network Update means you know there's still an issue, but just in case...the server restart hasn't fixed anything for us. Travelling from a US district to the GH via the Guild window again results in an empty GH with an invitation to create a guild, and no Guild roster/tags. I haven't retested travelling from a European district...but since that was failing worse than the US districts on the weekend (no GH to travel to & no Guild roster/tags at all), I figured that the US district failure was pretty indicative of the GH not being usable at the moment. ;) 210.1.195.174 11:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

We've had an similiar problem. As soon as we went to euro dis the guild would dissapear. This does not happen in int or american. I made a video showing it here:[3] 82.95.65.117 16:53, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Update: 29 March 2011

The team noted tickets coming in still about this problem, so our kind server fellow -- Stephen -- reset the guild system yet again. Please let me know if you continue to see problem. We're really sorry about this continuing issue, and are hoping the new reset clears everything up completely. If not, it's back to the drawing board for more research and the trying of other things. -- Gaile 05:33, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry to have to say that the restart has not helped at all. Still no Guild roster/tags/NPCs when I travel to the Guild Hall from a US or International district, and my character's don't recognise that the guild exists when I'm in a European district (so can't travel from there). When travelling to the Guild Hall from a US district, the GH is loaded through server ip 206.127.146.59, and just offers Guild Creation options. Oh - and it's the "Isle of Meditation" guild hall, for a guild that was originally European. 210.1.195.174 09:06, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

For me it is fixed, even in european districts. Kinda weird. Guild is european aswell i believe. Same server as he has ^ 82.95.65.117 11:41, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Update: 30 March 2011

Ever creative, our network team has enabled a work-around that we hope will stop the connection issues that players have been experiencing for the last four days. Since the team is aware that the problem is sourced with a particular provider, they're rerouting traffic from the Frankfurt data center to the US center using a different provider. Sort of like taking an "alternate route" when there's a traffic jam. :) Please do continue to update me, folks -- I'd like to keep the team apprised of what you're experiencing. Thanks a lot. -- Gaile 19:08, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Our GH & roster is working properly here (from both US & European districts) tonight for the first time in 4 days (the second time in 6 days - we did get one day where it worked from US districts). It's looking much better - and I'm crossing my fingers that it'll "stay" fixed this time. I hate having to deal with intermittent issues myself - they're so frustrating to debug, and can be hard to tell if they went away because they were fixed or were just intermittently working again. ;) Cheers. 210.1.195.174 11:18, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Its doing it again, I had to break from PWI just to check and tell you, the band aid didn't work >_<. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 04:00, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

I just saw it for the first time. I had played earlier with player based in Europe, and met them in an EE District. When I logged on later, all looked okay until I moved to the GH, after which, no services, no guild chat, no guild roster. Switched districts (to Asia/Korea) and then switched toons to get everything back to normal.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:04, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

now my hall is effected from every district euro, american, aisa and international, not all the time i must add but ive decided to try and avoid GH for a while, hope this can be sorted soon.Spark-TBa 13:44, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

ok HZH is completely messed up ee1, got lux npc's in it, and a guildie here cant leave euro districts for some reason, we got any new info on this situation.Spark-TBa 14:40, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Update: 4 April

Ok, we're all about tapped out with this pesky (and mysterious) issue! One of our server programmers let me know today that he and an IT Team member, who also works with our servers, discovered: "The guild server is disconnecting from the EU game servers about once a minute." I don't know about you, but my first reaction was, "Well (#&%, that's can't be good!" :)

The good news is that they completely rerouted the system that were using that server and rerouted them to servers that we know are fully functional. In more than 1/2 hours of steady observation, things look much better now. Could you please give it a bit and let me know how things look on your side? As always, if you report a problem, it helps me tremendously if you tell me: Date, time (and GMT time) plus your general location. Thanks! -- Gaile 23:22, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

As on your Facebook I keep getting Code=040 on 206 servers. Now, after a few minutes of checking servers the 64 servers are doing exactly the same. Guildies here in New Zealand get the same, and guildies in the states are experiencing the same thing. Guild Wars was unable to complete the operation. Please try again in a few minutes. (64.25.39.47:6112) (Code=030). I would imagine this is a connection issue, but it's getting rush, like a bad rash. lol ~~000.00.00.00~~ 06:42, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, the 64 server issue seems to have just been a hiccup. Working now. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 06:45, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

After a few hiccups as well we are back in the Guild Hall. 007 and one other codes multiple times. My guild hall home is Europe based even though I'm in the USA. Previous to 4-4-11 we were still getting spotty issues with the items in the GH missing. I have also updated my ticket with Anet. Raminator Chick 06:59, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Well, darn it! Ok, thanks for these reports. I have passed them along to the Network Team. They are on duty 24/7, and I'm sure will prioritize this issue. -- Gaile 07:17, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

It's interesting how it's spreading to both 64 and 206 servers, today was not so bad, only 15 minutes of issue for most of the people I talked to, however there were lots of people who didn't experience the issue. What troubles me is that people in America connecting to 64 servers were also affect (a number of my guildies mentioning it - we had vanquishes to do and they simply couldn't get anywhere with GW regardless of character, and location). It will be interesting to hear what the issue is. Someone needs reminding the internet is not a big truck, it's a series of tubes and those tubes can be filled. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 12:06, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

the guild hall bug is back, i just logged in on my sin straight into gh, only things there were hench and it said i was out of guild, mapped out to gtob and im back in my guild,i think it may have something to do with server issues from virgin media in the uk but cant confirm this atm.Spark-TBa 17:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Update: 5 April

I've a flurry of emails in my in-box signaling that all hands are on deck in addressing this latest permutation of the EU guild server issue. The server folks feel that this may have been cleared about 2:00 AM Pacific time, which is a few hours after these reports came in. However, at this point, I'm not holding my breath. :)

From our IT server specialist comes a request for steps to reproduce this issue, should it arise again. He has tried entering the GH from game servers in both territories several times today and an issue has not shown itself. So consider yourselves "Honorary Bug Testers" if you're willing, and submit a report with the following information:

• The time/date of the incident (don't forget time zone)
• The IP address of the outpost/map you were in before trying to enter their guild hall; type /ip in chat or hover over the lag indicator to get that info
• Indicate whether the UI does anything when you click to enter the Guild Hall (For example, do you get the splash loading screen or does the game just sit there until an error window pops up or an error pops up in chat?)
• If you get the loading screen, what’s the IP address in the top left to which you are referred for your guild hall?
• If you get an error code, what is the full message? (For accuracy, you could snap a Print Screen and then type it out when your post here.)

Thank you, once again, for your continued patience and good will as we work to resolve this problem. -- Gaile 20:25, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I'll pass this info along to those who keep me up to speed with this. A lot of people are getting impatient, hopefully it's just one of those internet flus that passes quickly :P ~~000.00.00.00~~ 20:35, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Will you also adress the issue that Heroes' Ascent was practically removed? --numma_cway 20:34, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Unless what you're bringing up is related to networking or connectivity issues (it doesn't sound like it is but I apologize if I'm wrong), you'd be better off asking about that somewhere else, particularly a user feedback page. --ஸ Kyoshi 21:53, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

As far as I know, Heroes' Ascent is still on the map, still in the game. :) Kidding aside, please feel free to ask questions about topics other than connectivity issues of this thread in a different thread. But please keep in mind, I am ArenaNet's Support Liaison, and I generally don't get involved in discussions about design decisions. -- Gaile 01:38, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Update: 6 April

Well, our server team just made a significant change to routing that should utter stomp this bug. Note that this is a different routing change that the one that was attempted a few days ago. The details persuade me this could utterly stomp the bug, but only time will tell. In the meantime, please be sure if you do make a report that you let me know the specific time, so we can gauge if it's before or after the most recent change. Thanks. -- Gaile 01:50, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

hopefully that will be the end of that then <3 thank you so much Server Team (And Gaile for letting us know!) --Firadesunna 02:04, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

I do believe, so far, that this has fixed it. I haven't seen a problem in the last 2 days. Thank you all for your support and diligence on this issue.Raminator Chick Talk 19:38, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

That's super good to hear! I appreciate your thanks, but want to give it back, double, for all the patience that players have shown with this pesky bug! -- Gaile 03:16, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I myself don't have any major issues any more, at least not related to this. But some friends of mine still receive errors 007, 015 and 040 today (21:00 GMT) while playing Random Arena (during map switching). It's apparently difficult to play more than five matches in a row. Currently we're also a bit concerned about the GvG tournament this weekend.. I'll update my ticket with any significant information when available. -- Karasu (talk) 21:21, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Still having connection issues ticket raised with support ticket on 12 April 2011 no 110412-002800. I have two accounts that connect to districts starting in 64.25.39. I can log in ok sligh delay on char screen then loading to the district screen just stays and then comes up with 007 error. Could you look into this Gaile, many thanks in advance User: Robin Da Poor 15th April 2011

Hi Robin. To my understanding, the guild hall issue was corrected some weeks ago. )(Around the date of my latest update, April 6.) However, we have had a new issue appear, which I made a new thread about below. That issue appears -- cross fingers -- to have been corrected with a routing change made late last night. However, if you (or anyone else) is still having connectivity problems, please do post in that thread and let support know, as well. Thanks. -- Gaile 19:07, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Deleted Account Login

I attempted to change my GW account login address a year or so ago, around the introduction of the anniversary storage slot, and the issue was never solved. This would likely be due to the fact that the address the information was sent to (the address I'm currently stuck using to log in to GW) had been deleted after being hacked, before the attempt to change the GW login. Do you know of any way to fix this? The only way I know to verify I am who I say I am is by logging into the GW account connected to the deleted address, myself, and providing any information that would prove useful. If, by chance, you know of another, I'm all eyes. Teddy Dan, yo. 10:54, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I'm no longer in possession of the incident number or the memory of such. If you'd like me to sign another ticket, let me know. Thanks. Teddy Dan, yo. 10:56, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

You should probably make another ticket; they can likely fix it (assign a new email address to it, maybe?) if you confirm the account is yours. --ஸ Kyoshi 17:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes please, Dan. If you can outline what happened, and mention your previous ticket along with the approximate date you sent it, the team can look into the archives and help you out. They will need verification, but it sounds as if you are prepared to offer that, so all should resolve nicely. Changing the log-in isn't possible if you're bound to an NCMA, but you can change your contact email address. Best of luck. -- Gaile 19:27, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

The log-in is what I'm worried about. And... I do believe it is linked to an NCMA... that I don't remember. Bah, there goes that idea. Here's another thought, though... Do you know if it's still possible to unlock the free anniversary Xunlai Storage pane, if you can prove you were an active player during its introduction? If so, would I be able to unlock it after changing my contact e-mail? Either way, thanks for helping. Teddy Dan, yo. 10:38, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, the free storage pane isn't available any longer. It had to be retrieved during the time of the anniversary celebration. -- Gaile 19:31, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I thought as much. Thanks, anyway. Teddy Dan, yo. 11:08, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome, Teddy. Sorry I couldn't give you better news about the storage pane, but I'm pretty sure the team can get you back on the account if you get them the info they need. -- Gaile 05:42, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Language choices (unlock vs restore accounts)

I'd like to offer a suggestion on how ANet/NCSoft support communicates with owners of hacked accounts about regaining control. As I understand it, (after credentials are proffered) Support currently writes, "we will restore your account", which leads some people to assume (wrongly) that the contents will be restored. A less misleading phrase might be, "we will unlock your account". It would be better still if, in that same email, Support were also able to set expectations by reminding folks of the policy, e.g. "Unfortunately, we cannot restore any of contents that were removed from your characters."

Obviously, there's nothing much that can be done to make getting hacked less than a horrible experience. At best, though, we can avoid making it worse by being careful in how we speak to those recently victimized.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:55, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

Just insert "control": "We will restore control of your account". The word "unlock" has its own connotations that may not be appropriate here. I do agree with informing people from the get-go that they will not be made whole. -- FreedomBound 11:53, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I concur. Teddy Dan, yo. 12:22, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

This is very good feedback. And I think I made this suggestion to the team a couple of years ago. ;) "Restore" sounds as if it will return in untouched state, and sadly, that seldom happens with hackers and account thieves. I will pass this input along. But first, "restore control" has a vague Outer Limits sound to it. "We will restore control of your television to you" is a pretty direct quote. Don't you think, "We will restore your access to your account" or even "Reset your account so that you can regain access" would do it? -- Gaile 05:37, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

"Reset your account" would cause panic and mayhem. People would think their entire account was wiped. elix Omni 06:20, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict)

That was why I preferred unlock. (Although, Outer Limits, the original was a great show!...and you guys do control the vertical and the horizontal ;-)

I think any short phrase is liable to misinterpretation because anyone hacked is hoping for a silver lining. So, the best strategy might be to make sure that the email is very explicit (and yet gentle) in explaining that items will not be restored. (Something akin to what you have written above and so many times before.) The idea is to set expectations so that it's very unlikely that anyone is surprised to return to an emptied account.

Gaile: since you have brought this to ppl's attention before, is there anything that we can do to help convince the powers that be that the language does matter? Thanks again for your attention.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:22, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I have looked at this many ways:

1. We have ensured that you now have access to your account.
2. We have re-enabled access to your account.
3. We have re-enabled your account.
4. We have reconfigured your account so that you will now be able to access it again.
5. We have returned access of the account to you.
6. We have reset your account. (Point taken, Felix. :) )
7. We have restored access to your account. (The flow there includes "access to" with "restore" which my brain tells me really is the valid word. Not "We have restored your account, but "We have restored access to your account. I honestly feel that's the best option.

Certainly I agree that something along the lines of, "We regret that we cannot restore any items or characters that may have been impacted by the unauthorized access, but you will be able to access your account and play now" would be good, followed by security info, like "please reset every password you've ever had... ;) ) I'm just weighing the merits of the several options above. -- Gaile 19:21, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I should explain that "unlock" as the word in this usage seems likely to raise unnecessary questions, like "Why was it locked?" "Who locked it?" When was it locked?" or "If it was locked, why did I lose items?" and possibly more. Where "restoring access to your account" seems to make it clear, someone else accessed your account, we plucked the account from their grasping clutches and are now restoring access to the account to you, the rightful owner. :) -- Gaile 19:24, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Any of the six ideas above work better than what folks have reported to me that they have seen (I haven't seen the emails myself, though). And I also like your we regret... phrasing (plus the reminder to close the doors to all your other barns, too).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:50, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) According to our Account Support Team lead, this is the verbiage used:

• “We are resetting your NCsoft master account password. An automatically generated e-mail containing the temporary password has been sent to…”
• “Your Guild Wars password has been reset. Please use the following information to log in…”

Each account holder is also given a link to a page about account security. No mention is made of missing items, because that does not always apply. If the account holder writes back to ask, of course their ticket is responded to, after a review by another team, so that they know the limitations of account "resets." This verbiage has been given several reviews, and I personally don't see where someone would assume that "reset" means "restored to its original status" nor "rolled-back to a period preceding the hacking incident." Do you think those strings are a problem? -- Gaile 01:23, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the specific language. I agree with you that resetting your password is extremely clear; it's hard to imagine how ANet (or another company) could word it any better. Perhaps the experience of getting one's account burgled is just too traumatic that there's no phrasing that is going to prevent people from expecting a more positive outcome.

For what it's worth, one of the players with whom I spoke about this issue is very meticulous about their own word choices. I am sure that they saw something in the email that gave me them false hope about what to expect. (As they reported it to me, that was more devastating to them than the actual loss of items.) Under the circumstances and given the actual text above, I am not sure whether any rephrasing would have prevented this outcome.

In which case, it comes down to whether the Account Support Team should wait to be asked about the limitations of password resets or if they should warn people of what to expect upfront. I suspect, from your various postings on the topic, that ANet already revisits this question from time-to-time. Both options have merit and, unfortunately, neither will be best for even 90% of the players who are victims of this type of theft.

Thanks again for taking the time to review the issue.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:04, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Welp, I took a look at a different type of ticket, and I did find the use of "restore your account" so your friend was probably spot on in his observations. I've polled various team members here at ArenaNet, and am currently penning a note to the support team manager to ask about changing the current wording -- "Your account was blocked because it was accessed by gold sellers. We will be happy to help you recover your account..." -- to something like, "We will be happy to help you regain access to your account."

Thanks, TEF, for letting me know about this. Communications, words, and messaging are passions of mine, and I like things to be the best they possibly can be. :) -- Gaile 23:27, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I still think you guys should implement a difference-based revision control system focused on account item/gold status like what they've got Mercurial running on so you can do full recursive account restoration. I'm just a paranoiac, though, so maybe it'd be overkill. –Jette 23:36, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

@Gaile: wow; interesting. That sounds like an excellent result, under the circumstances. I appreciate you taking a fourth look at this (effective communication is also a passion of mine ;-). I'll let the player know that their shock and disappointment — and subsequent venting to me about it — had a silver lining. (They didn't feel they got much traction raising the issue to support.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:50, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

The team manager was very receptive to my comments about the language and my suggestions for positive change. As of this morning she will be routing suggestions for verbiage changes to her team. Those changes should make it clearer what we can and cannot do in relation to getting folks back on their stolen/hacked accounts. We're also discussing adding a bit about our limitations as far as item or character restoration at the same time. (I believe that, too, would be a very valuable addition as we deal with this sensitive issue.) Thanks again for a helpful discussion. -- Gaile 20:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Heads Up!

Hi Gaile, this is Felix Omni, bureaucrat of GuildWiki. Occasionally players mistake the GuildWiki administrators for ArenaNet staff and come to us with Guild Wars support problems, so I try to route them through to the correct channels. In this particular case a player has a long-standing account issue but would rather not make it public by posting here, so I told her to e-mail support and ask to be put in contact with you. The player's name is Lea so you'll know who to look for if you're so inclined. Hopefully I didn't make too much extra work for you guys. elix Omni 18:55, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi Felix. That ticket was escalated to me, and I have already responded. Thanks for letting me know. -- Gaile 00:32, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Hi again Gaile. The person in question contacted me again yesterday and said she was still hoping for a personal response from you. I don't know any of the details, but if you could please re-examine the matter for loose ends it would be great. elix Omni 19:57, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Removing Account/Resetting Accounts

I was wrongfully banned and I've tried Support with no success. I lost alot, but almost everything is regain able, so after the initial shock, I do not mind. What I'm wondering is if ya'll can remove accounts so that character names are reusable, and so that I won't be labeled as a 'botter', because everyone who knows me will see me on a new account and assume thats why my old account was banned.Magicoverdrive 19:03, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Well for one, if you feel your ban was wrongful you can appeal it here to Gaile. As for names, I don't think they do that, though I don't know whether "can't" or "don't" is more accurate. --ஸ Kyoshi 00:27, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

We do not remove accounts nor free up names. I don't really understand what you're asking. If your account was banned, then that name isn't available, so neither you nor anyone else will be able to use precisely that name. If you create a new account, I don't see how someone would tie your new account to one formerly banned for botting. Perhaps you can make that more clear for me. -- Gaile 00:49, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

"We do NOT remove accounts nor free up names." You're busy, so I fixed it for you. Teddy Dan, yo. 18:22, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Dan. I fixed the above. :) -- Gaile 23:30, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Abuse of report

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray

Hi, Gaile

My account just get suspended for spamming, according to logon screen notice. If Anet consider guild recruit message for spamming then I will accept the suspension, however I have screenshots of someone threatening me that he/she has emailed to Anet and my account will get banned and I also have screenshots of this person's alliance members trying to get me into a fight/argument by pm'ing me in game.
So I believe that they have abused /report function( by asking alliance members to report my name) & report me as spamming although I do NOT spam guild recruiting message (I do post messages every a few minutes or so which I don't see as spamming.) I don't believe this is acceptable when Anet doesn't check the sources of /report then just suspend/ban player account based solely on number of /report they received.
Is there a way to prevent this? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.106.6.127 (talk • contribs) at 22:10, 29 March 2011 (UTC).

Asking alliance members to report someone for spamming does sound like abuse (though the criteria for that seem hazy to me), and trying to get you to fight is probably some kind of harassment, which is also a punishable offense. You might want to create a support ticket on the subject or maybe report the players who were fighting you, for the harassment if not abuse of the report system. --ஸ Kyoshi 23:01, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

sorry for not signing(I don't know how), I wasn't sure if they asked alliance to report, but based on screenshots I have I am assuming that is the case. Because I know that I post guild recruiting message every a few minutes or so NOT spamming, sometimes I even go afk for hour before posting again.
Btw how do I sign & how can I email to Gaile? 99.106.6.127 23:13, 29 March 2011 (UTC) ah I think I know how to sign with ~

Add four ~ to sign. And see support for how to create a ticket (start with that; Gaile won't be able to review until after support takes a look.... and you might be pleased with their review). If you can, stick to the facts and let the team draw their own conclusions; they've been doing this a long time and they are pretty good about spotting folks who are trying to incite others...if they have the time/date/location/toon-names (and the screenshots will help, too).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:30, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

By all means, if you feel you were targeted by another player or group of players as the victim of harassment -- and if you feel you were not spamming -- then submit an appeal to support. I feel it is highly unlikely that the Support Team would say, "Oh, gosh, we have 10 reports, let's block this player!" I think instead they would say, "There are a lot of reports, let's see what the player is actually doing," and then take action (or not take action) accordingly. IOW, I do not believe that someone will be suspended for spamming simply on the basis of reports. Instead, the reports prompt us to look at the activities of the reported player, to see if he's going overboard on in-game chat (i.e., spamming). Support can let you know their findings, if you get in touch. -- Gaile 19:31, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

I will do just that (and more, will also be emailing to BBB etc.) if I get suspended again because this time I will have more screenshots, and I have an idea on which players were abusing it. So I will wait with patient for more screenshots/proof. Again my goal wasn't to get other people account suspended, but to prevent from people abusing /report system which in imho is a broken system anyway.99.106.6.127 00:34, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

You're free to make your own choice, but I respect the BBB and I'm aware of the heavy workload that that fine non-profit organization endures. Why would you involve the BBB? If you feel the mechanic is ineffective or is broken, by all means contact Support. But asking an outside agency to get involved is like complaining to the BBB when you don't like the sales offered by your local grocery store or feel that a certain stretch of road is not properly patrolled by the police department. For matters like that, you work with the company or agency involved. The BBB is not the answer to every complaint and I believe you should weigh carefully what they could or would do with such a complaint. -- Gaile 20:17, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

My comment on BBB is not about broken system nor using BBB as my first choice of solution, but rather it is allowing players to abuse it. Most of us know that /report system is ineffective.

(Reset indent) Ok, as I have suspected, another suspension this time for disruptive behavior? For posting guild recruitment messages and letting the players know that I have been taking screenshots? I did make a ticket on harassment before I realize my account has been suspended again. So do I make another ticket to fight suspension, or just update to current support issue. I can give support ticket# here __99.74.79.182 22:46, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

Baiting (i.e. "letting the players know that I have been taking screenshots") is disruptive behavior. You'd be better off serving out your suspension and then be more careful about what actions you take in-game in the future. You can bet that after an account was recently suspended then un-suspended, the support team did not take the decision to assign your new suspension lightly. -- FreedomBound 00:26, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

If it's the same account that is now under a (new) suspension, then I suggest you update your recent ticket. But it sounds to me as if you're not getting suspended because of reports. You may be getting suspended because people are complaining about your messaging, perhaps viewing what you're saying as antagonistic or threatening. With situations like this, the team is asked to review chat records of those involved. They are very sensitive that some small number of players might trying to grief another player with false reports. This means that even if a dozen people reported someone for "spamming," there would be a review of the relevant chat records before anyone was suspended.

Can you give me details, such as what you're saying, in what chat channel, and how often you're posting it in a given zone? I've learned over the years that there is a wide range of opinions about what constitutes "spam" and what does not. Where one person might say "One message per minute is ok" another would say "I don't think anyone should post the same message more than 4 times in an hour in the same zone." We have data points for our agents to use in defining spam. We also keep a close eye on chat that is really harassment, griefing, or "baiting" of another player (as Freedom Bound mentions). I would like to know your messaging habits and I can discuss this with the team and review the actual game logs involved in these incidents. Thanks. -- Gaile 00:31, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok here is the ticket number 110401-003002 if you want to take a look at screenshots ..... as far as accusing of baiting... I DID reply pm & warned not to pm me again or I will report with screenshots if PM'ing continue ..... the same person however switched to different character set to offline and pm me again PRETENDING to be a different player. screenshots I have included in support ticket has three other accounts I don't know those accounts are the same player or different players but used same tactics (using different characters and with each character pretending to be completely new player until I reply them with the fact I took screenshots.... after that they show the fact they are intentionally pm'ing me.) So if you consider baiting as "when I pm them saying the truth about taking screenshots," what do you call this? They KNEW what they are doing, by switching different character hoping that I am stupid enough not to realize and fall into their trap...........
As for suspension, I've expected that will happen again since these player(s) pm me & threatened me before my FIRST suspension. So I was sure they would do it again. And my issue here is NOT about my suspension. I will accept the suspension if support team see it as violation, BUT MY ISSUE HERE IS THESE PLAYERS ABUSING THE SYSTEM to get other player suspended that they don't like or whatever the reason.-- 99.74.79.182 01:01, 2 April 2011 (UTC)

First of all I want to express my symphaty for being suspended. I also want to express I don't follow your logic. You are accepting your suspension when the support team sees it as a violation, but you are doubting the way they found it. After reviewing the logs the supportteam found you did something that wasn't ok in their opinion and they suspended you. They look at the whole conversation, so also the person(s) the conversation was with, but they won't tell you the opinion bout the other person(s). Who knows, they might be suspended as well if it wasn't ok in the support teams opinion. Second I want to stress out this game is free to play. You buy it and then can play it for years and years. Still you have a free support system with reasonable fast response times. I think considering what we pay to play (I'm playing for bout 1,50 us dollar/month when I recalculate time spent/money spent) you can't expect it to be perfect. The times I had dealings with support I was surprised by the quality of them. Last of all. I had some situations that other players where provocing me in the game. I decided to ignore them and do what I came online for (having fun in playing the game and socializing with my friends).Rumian 09:11, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

When I said I will accept the suspension, "IF my action regarding to reply and saying that I took screenshots of their pm's" AFTER I told them to stop annoying with pm's.... If they consider this action as violation. Because I have never realized that warning other players that I will be taking screenshots of their pm could be a violation after I pm them to stop... As I have said before I knew these player(s) will do again after first suspension & I wanted to get screenshots which I have posted above, so I can report support team (also to BBB & others, if necessary). And that was what I did between first & second suspensions... But I did pm & warned not to pm me anymore or I will report with screenshots. -- 99.180.192.55 11:58, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Sometimes the best thing to do when harassed is to just add the person's name on your ignore list. Trolls will eventually go away when they are ignored. If that doesn't work, then contact support without telling anyone that you are contacting support. A hostile or even a neutral reply to harassers can be seeing as "feeding the fire" as they say and only serve to aggravate you and please the trolls even more. --Lania 18:53, 04 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Thanks for continuing to work with the team on this. One of our Support agents is actively looking into this matter and is discussing it with you. Please let me know if you have continuing questions after you've heard back from the agent and the team has provided a resolution to your questions and concerns. -- Gaile 23:14, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile for looking into this matter, the agent said after first suspension "you continued to intentionally harass a guild and many of its members" direct quote from email reply... I didn't pm anyone to join my guild I only send invite if the player is not in any guild or if they pm & asking for invite. I did post recruit message because I want to get guild members!!! after first suspension I was very careful NOT to spam it, here is what I posted as recruiting "[guild tag] recruiting...there is no such thing as noobs... join us even if u failed fowsc under 3 minutes ... etc" "we teach a leeeeeroy way in GW too not just WoW"as a funny way of letting players know that anyone can join my guild noob or not... because I wanted players that doesn't go around town/guild/alliance calling other players noobs... I did make jokes if I see other guild recruiting also such as "[guild tag] is too pro they req 4+areas come join my guild," and so .... as a joke not as an insult to anyone or any guild.
So makeing a funny guild recruitment is disruptive behavior? I am sure that no one uses or considers leeeroy joke as insult in any online game, correct me if I am wrong about it.-- 99.180.192.55 23:45, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I believe that the people who were seeing your jokes were not realizing you were kidding, and they were upset by what you said. I practically live my life communicating in text, and I can't count the number of times that something that seemed super clear to me, as the writer, was interpreted differently by the reader. Someone can see a simple comment and, depending on "the voice" that he/she hears when reading it, may perceive the comment entirely differently than intended.

My advice to you is to not refer to other guilds when recruiting, take care to not post more than 2 or 3 times in any given district, and avoid interacting with others when you sense there is tension. If you feel that you should use /report to let support know about an problem related to another player, do so, but resist the impulse to say or whisper that you've filed a report. Just let the report ride on its own merits and move on. In fact, since it takes no time at all to move to a different district, that is what I would suggest that you do to avoid altercations and to reduce any sort of stress. -- Gaile 02:00, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Account Issue: Merge/Character Moves

Issues involving Disappearing Accounts, Characters moving across accounts and Support

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray

So Gaile, you've been around for a while, The user in [4] this post most likely is not going to know how to contact you correctly. If you want the basics of the situation, while he was gone an account on his NCSoft Master Account was merged with an additional account. He wasn't responsible for this and the account was restored after he presented NCSoft Support with his Serial Keys. However the issue is the character his Wife played is now on his account instead of the account that his wife uses which was left characterless after the restore.

This is a family of Six players that are trying to enjoy Guild Wars and NCSoft support has essentially told them to go eff themselves, they refuse to look into the situation and have claimed the following

"neither GW people, NCSoft people, nor anybody else - can possibly move characters between accounts!" the user in the post goes on to explain a bit further as to what NCSoft Support has decided which in my opinion is not a suitable response. "Their implication, earlier in the communications mentioned by NCSoft, was that my wife and I shared accounts and thus we had each created characters on the other's account. This was not so...we never shared accounts."

This persons story is honestly not what ArenaNet / NCSoft has been known for in the past, the lack of service and the full-out lack of customer support being delivered to this individual is somewhat embarrassing. The user doesn't want to put the time forward to fight this and push this forward but I have nothing better to do so I've taken it upon myself to see if I can help get this resolved. Baddock 14:28, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

This is a really interesting question. I'm looking into this now. -- Gaile 20:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I cannot identify this incident based on the information that I have at hand. Please ask the player in question to contact me and provide me with his 12-digit support incident/ticket number so I can look into this further. He can do that here on the wiki, for his convenience. Thank you. -- Gaile 23:00, 4 April 2011 (UTC)

I've let the user know that you're looking for his 12-digit Ticket Number, when he updates me with it (I also gave him this talk-page URL) I'll edit it here or he'll do it himself.Baddock 14:41, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

I hope I'm doing this right...never tried this before. The incident number is as follows: Incident: 110321-001558. I'm not sure I can add anything to what's there. I'd like to clarify SirBaddock's comment that our family of six is trying to play. In fact, we six played for a long time, and when Lord of the Rings Online went free-to-play, have been playing that as a change of pace. Recently, I went back to GW with the thought of returning to it, at least with my wife since she finds it less difficult for her to play than LotRO. It's possible that the whole family would return. However, when I ran into this problem, it was clear that we probably wouldn't because the characters we prefer to play are now on the same account. I'm prepared to drop it at this point, but since SirBaddock stepped in, figured I might as well make this last effort. Thanks for your time and effort. It's nice to know there's some place to appeal when the usual support process fails to resolve an issue.Optiker 00:28, 6 April 2011 (UTC)Optiker

Gaile has been around for a while, people don't give her enough Credit when it comes to the amount of work she does as the Support Liaison. (I believe that's the title you were given but I haven't really checked up on where you are in the last few years). she's helped me a few times. Anyway, thanks for updating with your Incident Number. Stay tuned to this page for future updates. When signing your name you only need to use four ~ which will automatically add your signature. Hopefully everything get's resolved, this doesn't sound like the support I've dealt with in the past. Baddock 01:51, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this up, Baddock. I'm probably not alone amongst Guru'ers interested in the result of this ...glitch? There, but for the grace of insert-deity-here, go our accounts! --snograt 15:05, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Hey all. I appreciate your patience as I looked into this. It allowed me to have some visits with a few programmers, and they're folks I like a lot whom I don't often get to chat with, so that was a nice opportunity. I have an answer, and I have a few theories which I offer here:

It is not possible that characters from two accounts were merged. I sat with a programmer who has been here for years, and I could see the wheels turning in his head. He took a lot of time thinking about the matter, and discussing it with me, and he said he could not see how it was possible, in the remotest way, for characters to up and move from one account to another. I then moved to a second programmer who has been with us even longer, and he, too, said that character's couldn't move between accounts. It's the way they're coded, the way they're "plumbed" if you will, that disallows a shift between accounts. Back when we expanded the number of character slots available per account, we got a lot of requests to merge accounts or move characters from multiple accounts onto someone's main, but we literally could not accommodate the requests because, again, of the coding. Think about complexities like storage, like HoM achievements, titles (character- and account-based), etc. How do you move a character? With items in inventory only? Do you split out storage? Who takes the titles; who keeps the levels, how do you coalesce a character with one /age with a character of a different /age? What if the character was "born" (has an anniversary date) before the second account was even made? It is just not going to happen!

I then asked both programmers (and a server team member was also active in the discussion) "Could a bug have caused this?" And they pointed out that none of us have ever seen such a bug report before. So while we cannot say "It absolutely, positively, without-a-doubt cannot be a bug that caused this," please consider this: There are more than six million Guild Wars accounts. If a weird bug appeared, what are the chances of one player's account -- out of 6+ million -- getting merged with someone else in his household? Answer: spectacularly minuscule, extraordinarily tiny. Put another way, you'd be more likely to win the Lotto than to have this happen IF such a bug developed. And absolutely nothing confirms the existence of such a theoretical bug to begin with.

So I have a few theories:

• Given the span of time since you played Guild Wars, you may have simply forgotten whose characters were whose. I have done that myself. I think "I'll go play on (character name) and realize, "Err, nope, that's his/hers/its character, not mine." :)

• You were partying together and chose to make similar names.

• You may have had a character on the account in question and deleted it so that your family member could use the name. Say you have Fred Knight, and your wife or child says, "I want to use that character name." You hit delete, and exactly 24 hours later, your family member can make a new character with that name. I believe this isn't likely, but hey, it's a possibility! (Actually, one of the agents looked at character creation dates and this seems pretty unlikely, based on when characters of a similar name were created.)

I've read the ticket in full, and although I know the team members didn't give you the answer you wanted, they were 100% truthful. We don't have the capacity to move characters, therefore no "hacker" has that capacity, either. Therefore any concern that a hacker moved characters flies out the window. And as support pointed out, if your two accounts were somehow mangled, merged, or cross-corrupted through a bug, many other players would have also experienced the same thing, and we've not had a single report of this kind.

You can be sure we will be watchful for any more reports of such a situation, but so far there have been none and we do not anticipate that we will receive any in the future. I apologize for the length of this reply, but I hope this level of detail helps you understand that we truly cannot move the characters to different accounts, and why that is so. -- Gaile 03:56, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Gaile...thank you very much for pursuing this. Obviously, from what you've found, it's not likely that the accounts were merged. As a former scientist, now retired, I understand and appreciate statistics, and from what you've said, there's a higher probability that my geriatric neurons have let me down than that the accounts were merged. I remain fairly sure that we never shared accounts, but the respect folks have for your role in looking into such problems and the findings you've described are beginning to weaken my certainty. I'm ready to lay this whole fiasco to rest.

Totally random theory but a cosmic ray might have swapped the character blob pointers while they were partied up? ;o Still doesn't explain why his wife's account was *deleted* though. I would really be interested in an explanation.

(Oh and for those who don't notice it, the part about the cosmic ray is sarcasm; and while possible in theory, there is no way this would have happened since ArenaNet likely uses ECC RAM in their servers)--141.70.81.135 10:11, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the Reply Gaile, the only other theory I can think of besides all this is that the user who was having this issue had their account compromised and the person who compromised it deleted the characters. After that the accounts were merged somehow (as an empty account to his wives account which is why he saw her character). That is all I can think of. Regardless, thank you for the update, that's the type of support I've known and enjoy seeing from ArenaNet/NCSoft. (PS: Forum Topic was updated to also add your response). Back to doing work now, Baddock 20:08, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

I understand the theory, but again, merging isn't possible. Each account has an individual identifier that wouldn't make that possible. It would be like trying to "merge" a Ford and a Chevy. ;) It is a perplexing puzzle, to be sure. I'm thinking there could be some element of a hacker deleting characters (although they seldom bother to do that, instead just focusing on taking items). But yes, if characters were deleted, that would free up the name(s) for creation on the other account. -- Gaile 20:22, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

It's easy to test that theory by checking the /age of the characters (it also seems unlikely since it would take a lot of energy to grow the toons to L20 after re-rolling them on the second account, which seems unlikely in a case of hacked accounts).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:27, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Gaile, I might be wrong here, but I seem to recall that you had said before, back when the character name requirement was added, that when people e-mailed support, one thing that would help confirm that they were who they said they were was names of deleted characters. I assumed this meant that there was some sort of record of who existed on an account at any given time. If there is such a record, couldn't it be checked to verify whether this character swap happened?--Res 12:48, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't recall saying that the names of deleted characters could be used to verify account ownership, but yep, we do have access to such info, so I imagine as a last-gap measure that might work. :)

I have asked someone to check deleted characters. I believe that was reviewed at the time the ticket was active, but I'll confirm. -- Gaile 21:04, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

We've looked at all the records available to us, and there's no trace of such a character deletion/re-creation. I spoke with the team lead and while none of us discount the remote possibility that database corruption could take place -- we'd never say "never" -- the chances of it taking place and the corruption then resulting in the creation of an identically named and identically-spec'd character on someone else's account (and someone in the same household) are extremely remote. As in getting struck by lightning. Twice in the same day. Those of us who have looked at all the details truly believe this is a case of account-holder confusion, which seems even more likely when you consider that the accounts hadn't been accessed in more than two years. And once again, there have been no other reports of this kind whatsoever, further bolstering the original determinations. -- Gaile 21:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Best of luck to Optiker, then. Gaile, you'd mentioned that the deleted character names could be used here.--Res 05:25, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the link, Res. Yes, I do recall making that comment about deleted characters. In that context I didn't mention the limitations, but there are a few. For instance, a character that was created and deleted back during E3 for Everyone may not help in verifying account ownership. :) Still, any info is better than none, and it's amazing how we can piece together the full scope of data we need from bits 'n' pieces. I encourage players to "tell all" to Support and we'll do our best to help. -- Gaile 05:30, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, hey: "telling all" must be understood to mean we will never ask for a password, and if someone does, you should absolutely decline to provide that info. I worry that what I say may be taken too literally, but I think those folks who read this page know the skinny: We won't ask for your password. We'll keep your information private. We'll ask you a bunch of questions, but we do not necessarily expect that you'll have all the answers. We'll work with what we have and diligently do our best to ascertain ownership of the account in a way that protects the legitimate owner while not tossing up so many hurdles he/she cannot get onto his own characters. :) -- Gaile 05:34, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Can't believe GM is not allowed to help

Hi, an accident happened and made me horribly upset. My character finished WiK questline and I was looking forward to exchange my medals of honor for the green Toriimo Toch staff. When my character entered the LA Keep I double-clicked the Grahame npc, all else was out of my control. My character ran to npc, the npc opened his window and... the choice was made, it was so fast that I did not understand what happened. It was Isaiah bow that fell into my inventory. Now imagine the situation I'm in, my character and all the heroes are casters, the bow is 60k gold worth, with no chance to be sold (who will buy a 60k+ worth green bow when there are oppressor's weapons?).

I contacted support team, ticket 110409-001048], asking to replace the bow with the Toriimo staff or to remove the bow replacing it with 10 medals. They refused. Why can't I get Toriimo instead of the bow now? How must this tiny modification affect or harm gameplay? If Gm's do not help in such trivial cases what are they for? The only one who has disadvantage here is me, I earned those medals, I indented to choose Toriimo, I did nothing wrong in fact, but im terribly screwed now... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 95.25.188.75 (talk).

There is a difference between unwilling and unable to help. Guild Wars, at its basic level, does not allow for people outside of the game to generate items or gold. In this situation, Support is unable to help, though I'm sure they sympathize with you, and may wish otherwise. G R E E N E R 14:42, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

The difficulty here is that whether Support can help or not is also a decision that the company itself makes. A customer asks for help and Support says they cannot help because there are no options for them. Then the customer says, well, I think you should have options and Support says, well, go to the Wiki because we do not talk to the developers. It is complicated by the fact that other game companies do allow for Support in cases like this and that makes it hard for Anet/NcSoft to defend their point of view, because whenever they say we can't, the customer says, why not, because others can do it... I see it as a process where Customer Support has to grow up and become adult, because in a lot of cases they are lagging behind in comparison to the size of the business. Shortly put: The answer that Support cannot do it, explains it but doesn't make it ok. Et In Gehenna Vixi... 09:16, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Although you could debate if this request should be fullfilled, I don't think that support is unable to help. Bout two years ago my neighbour with whom I started playing this game did the last mission in prophecys for the first time ever. King Jalis didn't give him the Deldrimor Talisman. He did the mission bout 3 more times before contacting support. After discussing with them for a few mails and given some proof, he logged in one morning and had the talisman in his inventory (and offcourse an email from support explaining that they resolved the issue). Rumian 09:54, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Pics or it didn't happen. --BriarThe Spider 09:58, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I agree, pics or it didn't happen. Sounds like your friend already had it and just missed it, or maybe it was in the overflow item list or something. I've never heard of Support generating items for any reason. Anyway, for the "The answer that Support cannot do it, explains it but doesn't make it ok." How doesn't it make it okay? Something like this cannot be done because GW1 was never designed for it -to- be done. Yeah, it sucks. But, what is our alternative? Re-writing and re-coding absolutely everything related to GW1? I don't think so. It's a shame things like this cannot be done, but life goes on. 24.182.4.202 12:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Rumian -- I can assure you that Support did not add an item to his inventory. I have theories about how or why it may have seemed to "magically appear" in his inventory, but I will promise you that a team member didn't spawn him one and put it on his account -- that truly, truly is impossible. -- Gaile 20:43, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

How about this scenario(Im not saying this is what happened with the op here): a guy uses his medals of honor for the green weapons before they decided to make the oppressor compatible with the HoM, he will ask for a "refund" of his medals so he can get the oppressor and correct his mistake. After that, all the people who did that will be asking for the same thing don't you think? Either if he made a mistake, the computer moved on its own, or just didn't liked the skin and want to change, I don't think is something that must be done, and yes, I lost a lot of stuff selling like a bunch of black dyes selling them at 1g each when the lag made me think i was selling other stuff, so I think I understand the dilemma, but either way ( if support is unable/unwilling) I don't think is something they should do so lightly --Batousai 14:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

I do agree that care should be taken and strict lines should be drawn in any return policy. What I have been told every time this issue came up by Anet/Nc is that they simply do not have any tools to return anything. They simply do not have the possibility to do this. Of course that can be changed but it requires an investment to do so. As it stands, my opinion is that game companies should invest in some Support options that can help players when something bad happened to them and maybe even in situations like this. Whether it needs to be a return or exchange issue or a dual step selection when you trade in items (are you sure you want to get x item Yes/No) is another discussion. Et In Gehenna Vixi... 11:21, 17 April 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) To the OP: I am a little confused about what you said happened. Are you saying that you made an accidental click on the wrong item? You're not suggesting there is an "automated" process that would make the entire exchange take place outside of your control, right? Thanks for that additional info.

As far as exchanging items, that really isn't an option for Guild Wars. Where the team will go with Guild Wars 2 remains to be seen. Having a store of items to hand out on request (not matter how honest and forthright the request) or having the ability to spawn items is not a simple decision. There are a lot of complex factors to consider in offering replacements; just as there are considerable disappointments in not being able to do so. This is a subject that has been and will continue to be discussed at the highest levels. Our goal is always to offer the best possible support to our players, and I'm confident that if we can do more and better in Guild Wars 2 -- while ensuring the game remains balanced and fair for everyone -- we'll do it! :) -- Gaile 20:46, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

100526-004029

Re-read the EULA & the Bot-Ban details. It's unfortunate that I still disagree with my ban and feel like enough time has passed to bring it up to you. I didn't bot, I was in a guild that had people who botted, maybe banned by association? I feel kinda slighted by the fact that I had the change to interact with so many devs and so many prominent community members but it comes down to "Sorry, we won't talk to you about this issue." I send you guys Christmas presents with GWGuru~ :( Could you possibly take a look into it and give me a little bit more insight? <3 Sierraa 06:19, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I can take a look. But please know, we do not ever "ban by association." If you were marked for botting, then your personal account was involved, not someone else with whom you played, or a guildie, or even someone else using your computer. All bans were associated directly with the account in question. -- Gaile 20:53, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for taking a look! Please let me know if you find anything. :] Sorry about the delayed response, I've been having a bit of computer trouble. Sierraa 06:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I did the research, as promised, and found that the specific account you asked about was definitely detected using a disallowed third-party program. It was terminated as part of the largescale bot sweep back in May, 2010. So, there was no issue of mistaken identity or "guilt by association." I also learned that support took the time to look into possible unauthorized access, and they were able to rule out most forms of account breach. The one that they cannot completely rule out is a "hack" where someone in the same house -- a family members, friend, roomie, whatever -- learns or is told the account credentials and then accesses the account. Sadly, this happens more often than you'd think, so consider if you might have one of what I call "The Evil Little Brother(tm)" situations.

I cannot say which program you used that raised the "bot flag," nor is the team empowered to do so. Because it is so important for us to protect the security of our bot detection system, we can't give details that could lead to deductions on the part of bot programmers that allow them to work around that detection system. Certain programs in their native, unadulterated form are not malicious and will not result in account action. Yet even those cannot be given any form of formal "approval," as we've made clear in the past, because the programs can be altered to include malware or cheat elements. We're in the business of creating games, not approving, monitoring, and vetting programs made by other people, and for that reason, the use of any third party program is always "at your own risk." I have seen case after case where someone used a program that is usually harmless but in the version he/she used, was not harmless at all. I hope this information helps you better understand the actions that were taken. -- Gaile 21:24, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

"Some people may have installed and uninstalled a forbidden program a while ago, thinking it would not be detected. Obviously that wasn’t the case. Others may share a computer and not realize that someone else added a bot program to their system." You mentioned that it would be my personal account but support has lead me to believe that someone could install something on my computer and I could be flagged for botting. Could it be possible that this has happened to me? I'm not sure what to do. :x I was in a guild with people who used bots, everyone got banned even the ones who didn't use a bot. I thought possibly it was because I had traded with them but you ruled that out. I didn't bot, I'm not entirely sure how someone access my account, people had access to my computer but never my account. Sierraa 02:54, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

I would have no way of knowing if someone installed something on your computer; nor would Support. The point is, your account was used to bot. Not your computer, necessarily, but your personal account. That means that someone got access to your account, yet based on the evidence whomever did so wasn't remote from you -- different town, state, country -- but was at the same place you access your account, presumably your home. As the team said, someone may have downloaded a program onto your computer that then interacted with your Guild Wars account, but the fact is, the account was corrupted through that use, and was therefore flagged as having botted. -- Gaile 01:44, 3 May 2011 (UTC)