Talk:Wastrel's Demise

With Overload...

With Overload, you can ensure that you will do huge damage anyway. Ive been trying it out in PvP(especially in AB) with hexes like Backfire, you can take down an Elementalist, Necro, Shadow Arts Assassin, etc, In a few seconds. Backfire activates(depends on your attribute pts) dealing 119-140 damage than if Wastrel's Demise activates it will deal about 70-80 damage followed by Overload with 39-42, even better if can caught the enemy doing spell to activate Overload too.--ShadowFog 18:21, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Notes?

"Best when used on a specialized elementalist like a Terrorweb Dryder that has been interrupted by Power Block. " Only. I thought I'd have to do something outlandish to get it to work right --Eyekwah 15:52, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The Powerblock part can be removed. This it self does a spike anyhow even if interrupted with Power Block.--ShadowFog 22:12, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Update

I really like the new version. Casts fast, low energy, lasts 10 seconds - good for luring monks into wasting a remove hex spell, and good for triggering CoP-style spells.The Duke of Silence 02:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I notice monks tend to use hex removal more frequently when the hex involves degeneration (which consequently turns their ally's health bar pink and immediately noticeable) and a better coverhex than this I can't imagine. --76.23.121.196 16:18, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Haven't been able to get in to play yet, but this seems like it would be tougher to land the conditional than it was before, since it triggers on any skill instead of spells. Although, with Backfire or Visions of Regret, that might work nicely. Garrick 19:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Nah, it actually isnt that hard at all to get it on them. Even if the foe is spamming skills, you can pretty much always get it on them if you cast it right when a skill ends, since all skills have an aftercast.--Signachur 03:00, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

8/12/10 Update

Bleh. Not cool. (Lysander 01:35, 13 August 2010 (UTC))

now related to SH 78.34.217.250 01:56, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Why are they making mesmers psuedo-Ele's. Making a class that counters practically everything do loldmgz isn't exactly smart. My mesmer sheds tears for faceroll mesmers.The Gaga 02:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

1. Apply Channeling.
2. Apply Panic to a ball.
3. Tab.
4. Wastrel's Worry.
5. Wastrel's Demise.
6. Cry and Sig Clum where applicable.
7. Sig Ether when low on energy (lol).
8. Repeat from step 3 until Panic expires, then repeat from step 1.

Guys PvE isn't a joke. — Raine Valen 2:22, 13 Aug 2010 (UTC)

There have been worse blunders.--The Emmisary 02:27, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

By "blunder" I am sure you mean nerfing the only EOTN elites into uselessness. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 03:51, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

So let me see if I got this description...it does up to 50 total damage over the 5 second duration assuming the hex isn't removed, then assuming that it wasn't removed it hits again for up to an additional 50 after 5 seconds? (Usaf1a8xx 04:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC))

No, it's like SH, does 150 damage over 5 seconds. Ox rider 05:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

	Elite

Seriously. --Riddle 06:23, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. I just watched a non-guild team eject both [Math] and [eB] from Halls then proceed to continually roll teams on the power of dual E-Surges with this. They had a fire ele, but the damage too much resembled their having three. :< -- Oiseau | 15:30, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

In PvE, does this skill cause foes to scatter? --Silver Edge 05:08, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Just tested that out, it doesn't cause scattering. Even more useful for AoE damage. --- NessHrin | 05:13, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Holy crap, Roaring Ethers can really tear up H/H parties now...my poor little friends!--Ph03n1x 00:17, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

PI is your friend. --- NessHrin | 00:57, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Or the hexed person just uses a skill. InfestedHydralisk 03:25, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

PI can't be cast simultaneously on several Ethers (who also use Mistrust), and heroes and henchies don't know to use a skill when hexed, so at any given time there are three iterations of the hex pulsing my clumped up little group at once. I can handle it, definitely, but it is a challenge as a solo Mesmer. PS I can't help but wonder if Anet saw my skill feedback.--Ph03n1x 04:14, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Someone else thought so too, see Feedback talk:Game updates/20100812#Seems that they read some of the feedback space. --Silver Edge 22:31, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Anomaly note

Anomaly.When the hex is reapplied before its end the fist set of pulses will end and then another set will begin (from the fist pulse) but will only last for the remaining seconds of this second set. This way, during the time the hexes are overlapping, only the fist one will take effect.

I moved the above from the page as it needs cleaning up (and I don't understand it myself) --Manassas 11:14, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

'fist pulse' just sounds rather painful. 203.109.221.28 11:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I made some tests with 14 Domination, 14 FC and Mantra of Recovery to make sure it recharges as quickly as possible. I cast Wastrel's Demise. It deals 9 damage. It recharges and I cast it again. It refreshes the duration but not the starting damage, so the hex continues: 18 damage (second 1), 27 damage (second 2), 36 damage (second 3), 45 damage (second 4) and now 9 damage (second 5) and the hex ends. Thus if you recast it before it ends, the damage increments continue normally until it reaches the maximum amount (45 in this case @14 Domination) after which the damage starts over from 9 (again @ 14 Domination) for the remaining duration. Hope this helps. - MEI FEN /talk 11:49, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

It helped a lot. Thanks :) --Manassas 12:16, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

It would be pretty funny though if it kept counting. 54... 63... 72... 81... 90... yeah that adds up nicely. Pastafarian Hunter 22:15, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Do we know if mantra of persistence makes the damage keep climbing or will it reset after 5 seconds like on recast? Innoruuk 04:26, 21 July 2011 (UTC)(UTC)

Edit, sry I forgot mantra was only for illusion hexes :P. Innoruuk 04:26, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

P.S. I'm logged in as Innoruuk, but my name won't show up with four ~s.

New Table

Does anyone else feel that we need a second table on the page showing total damage done according to seconds the hex lasts and domination magic level? Jreengus 21:56, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

I think that'd be pretty helpful, yeah.--Ph03n1x 22:48, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

At home, I was also comparing it to W's Worry.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:04, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Interestingly, after not having played a while I noticed this tearing my heroes up and figured out that this skill got buffed immensely. --Life Infusion «T» 17:43, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Great against minions

I just tested this skill out and it works awesome against minions! They don't use skills, so it pretty much always runs to completion... guaranteed. It's a nice way to wipe out a MM's entire lot of minions as well as the foes around them. I'm adding a note to the page about this. -- Sparafucile 06:31, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Savannah Heat

I'd say that the two are pretty closely related, given that they're the only two skills in Guild Wars that stack damage based on duration. :\ — Raine Valen 23:51, 27 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Sigh. This goes back to the big wall-of-text debate about what this wiki means by related. I cannot imagine a situation in which I would consider using one to substitute for the other. WD works best with punish-if-use hexes (or vs non-skill users); SH works best when foes are snared. (Both, o/c, work well on nicely balled clumps of red dots, but then that's true of any AoE.)

I agree that the damage-by-duration feature is notable, but that important point would get lost under related skills. How about we instead add a note to each (these are the only two skills that...) — that highlights the feature w/o giving the impression that the skills have anything more in common.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 00:08, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I think you guys forgot about Rising Bile which fits the note's criteria of delivering damage based on the number of seconds the spell is in effect. Kruhljak 19:54, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, the two are interchangeable, just not on a bar-by-bar level. On a team-by-team level, however, a mesmer with WD can sub for an ele. — Raine Valen 2:03, 8 Nov 2010 (UTC)

There's also Destruction.--Ph03n1x 05:39, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Destruction delivers one packet of damage dependent on time, but this is not the same as damage stacking. -- Oiseau | 18:08, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Then Rising Bile isn't applicable, either, by that definition.--Ph03n1x 02:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Rising Bile and Destruction may be said to be related to one another. The debate here is between Savannah Heat and Wastrel's Demise. :0 -- Oiseau | 04:31, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I was just going off Kruhljak's note a few lines up, not necessarily full-on endorsing the stance on it.--Ph03n1x 03:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Aye: SH and WD are damage per second per second; Bile and Destruction are simply damage per second (and so not related in that way). — Raine Valen 0:35, 12 Nov 2010 (UTC)

Should we compare skill changes with Feedback suggestions?

This skill was changed a month after a similar suggestion was posted in this wiki's feedback space.

Are we allowed to link certain updated skills to various feedback and suggestion pages if there is a strong correlation between the two? --Falconeye 04:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Allowed? Sure; it's our wiki, after all. Should we? I think if, after careful review of the evidence, we can see notability and relevance, then yes.

In this particular case, I reviewed the change to the skill, compared it to Ph03n1x's suggestion, and ultimately supported User:Previously Unsigned's bold edit suggesting a relationship. The current phrasing allows readers to draw their own conclusions.

The phrasing also includes easily verified facts: Ph03n1x posted the suggestion in July 2010; WD was changed in August. Does it mean that ANet saw the idea and made use of it? Or was it great minds thinking alike? Or complete coincidence? There's really no way for us to tell, since ANet won't comment directly. The most we can do is to decide whether the comparison is apt. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:31, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Hang on. Is it really noteworthy when a skill is changed to something resembling a suggestion in the feedback space? We already know that skills get updated, and we know that suggestions can be submitted for the developers' consideration, and I don't see how a correlation between two such events tells us anything new. --Irgendwer 03:11, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. Such acknowledgements seem far more self-congratulatory than useful. To be mentioned at all there should be a functional purpose other than community back-patting especially as the similarities between a suggestion and a change could be nothing more than coincidence as TEF noted. Even as trivia, it seems irrelevant to anything or anyone (other than, perhaps, the author of the cited suggestion) until/unless ANet has personally verified the claim. Kruhljak 04:02, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't happen that often that there's a close connection (between suggestion and implementation) that we can document. So, yeah, I think it's noteworthy. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:02, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm sure I could find dozens of suggestions that preceded updates of a similar nature, although not necessarily within the span of a month. Regardless, I'm having trouble with phrases like "suggesting a relationship" and "close connection." Obviously a relationship exists, but it is causal? If so, all we've learned is that WD is an example of ANet considering input from players, in which respect it would hardly be unusual. The whole purpose of the feedback space is to elicit such input. On the other hand, if it's a coincidence then there's even less to get excited about. Coincidences of a similar nature happen too frequently to list. In conclusion, the fact that the suggestion that might have provided the inspiration for this skill change was posted on this wiki doesn't make it more noteworthy than input given through any other means and preceding a similarly relevant skill change. --Irgendwer 04:33, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

We can't document when a suggestion is causally connected to the change b/c ANet won't tell us. What's interesting to me is that, in this case, the details match very closely...and I haven't noticed that before (even though I read lots of suggestions and most of the update notes). If you can find a dozen examples (where there's 95% overlap in specifics), then I would agree with you that it's not very interesting.

On the other hand, I don't feel all that strongly that the note has to remain. If even half the people commenting think it doesn't belong, I won't object to removing the note. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:46, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

It may have been optimistic of me to claim that I could find "dozens" of suggestions (since the feedback space is cluttered and I don't feel like trawling fansites). Here's one decent example, though: HoM in Pre. That's in addition to the countless bugs people have reported that were subsequently fixed. --Irgendwer 05:26, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

AFK's suggestion is a good example of using the spirit of the idea, but not the specifics (they didn't bring the HoM to Pre; just an NPC performing a minor function). Similarly, bugs aren't that interesting to me because I imagine that ANet wishes it hadn't released the bugs in the first place (of course they are going to fix as many as they can). In contrast, specific suggestions, one imagines, are ideas that hadn't yet occurred to ANet.

Anyhow, I'm not sure that we're going to convince each other since this is more a matter of eye-of-the-beholder stuff. (Also, I apologize: I didn't mean to put you on the spot; I meant to suggest how rare I thought the situation was rather than suggest anyone had to offer proof it wasn't.) I'll wait to see what other ppls say; if a few more folks can't see the point then, let's remove the note. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:06, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The key aspects of Wastrel's Demise are that it's spammable, does increasing damage each second, and ends on any skill use, not a kind that not all bars have. It also affects the target. Being an AoE DoT hex is the limit of the similarity. An example of using player suggestion is Grapple's stance removal, which no one ever thought of adding as a note. 24.197.253.243 12:17, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

The IP is correct that there are fewer similarities than I remembered between the proposed Ignorance and the eventual WD (the suggestion cost more, took longer to cast, and hurt AoE-not the target). So... yeah, that falls into my category of captures the spirit, but not the details, i.e. it's not noteworthy. (However, I don't see the relevance of Grapple, given that Izzy directly solicited opinions on a skill that appears to me to be largely similar to his original proposal. (Wastrel's Demise, in contrast, was completely reworked.) )

Therefore, I withdraw my support for including a note mentioning the original suggestion. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

I find this whole thread incredibly flattering. Thanks, guise.--Ph03n1x 17:36, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Waiting

For the nerf. 5e 0rc 99999dmg kgo anets proudest moment. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.191.57.178 (talk • contribs) at 16:29, 16 May 2011 (UTC).

No need to nerf it, and it won't be happening anytime soon. Human mesmer's needed good weapons. 68.46.86.70 04:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I wonder if Anet realizes that this skill now utterly demolishes pets in PVP. Well over a hundred unavoidable damage every five seconds to a pet AND to anyone fighting alongside of it for trivial effort. Annoying that this skill takes a whole subsection of possible builds right out of the game, considering how popular mesmers using this skill are. 142.59.29.202 07:43, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

I don't acknowledge any PvP format which has pet popularity. Don't pet skills cancel Wastrel's Demise? Yoshida Keiji(talk) 18:41, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Fort Aspenwood

I have just seen a build using this, shadow form and wastrel's worry, and it destroys gates as if they were made of butter, the guy just ignored every single kurzick and go right to the green gate, i only noticed it wasnt a joke or a noob trying something strange when he reached the green gate and killed Radik before we gave them the chunks of ambar of the left mine that the kurzick capture when the game starts. Velite 23:56, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

dshot shadow form next time imo 24.130.140.36 02:09, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

He casted sform+arcane echo before combat, so it had 26 seconds (13+13 at 12 shadow arts) that I canot dshot him. Ok, imo thats not so much , but with a high domination magic and the monk far from the gate it was enough to break green gate and kill radik. After 3 games loosing he showed me the build, but as i dont play mesmer i cannnot know if it was just luck and the build is a sh*t or not. Here is the code [OQdTAGB/5ZJozaC3UZggbD0ABA] Velite 09:21, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

I've seen similar before, I just dshot sf when I see the guy coming through the inner gate or prot the green gate, dshot is funnier though because it's the only time I've gotten a kill on a heal/prot monk bar (he realized he had no sf and just kinda exploded to everything) 24.130.140.36 16:32, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Damage capped in PvE?

I was using this against Spectral Vaettirs at 15 dom and I realised that it was doing 10, 20, 21, 21, 21 damage instead of going up to 50, making the total damage of 93 and less than the 100 wastrel's worry would have got me in less time. --95.145.164.166 15:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

that's because you were using shadow form. (shadow form caps your damage at a certain level (which is 21 for you) you could raise this by increasing your shadow arts. --193.202.110.180 08:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC) The Holy Dragons (sorry Alex weird edit conflict deleted your comment..)

You had Shadow Form up - limiting your damage to a maximum cap of 21, thats why you cast it with a 40/40 set and switch targets and spam it :p --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 08:42, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

• facepalm* Ohh yeah, thanks! --95.145.164.166 15:31, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Eh wut

“

Useful to cover other hexes that punish foes for using skills, such as Diversion or Shame.

— Page

if you use a skill with Diversion + WW on you, WW ends before the skill is activated. That is what i always see when i have Backfire - Wastrel's Worry on me when i use Cure Hex anyway. Wouldnt that make this skill "Useful to pressure your target into choosing between taking the damage and the covered hex's effect"? DemonicFahrir 15:39, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

In PvE, you should be able to re-apply WD/WW over any other hex because of the quick recharge and activation times. Unless there's heavy hex removal, it's unlikely that Diversion/Shame will get removed instead of WD/WW.

Regardless of whether it's useful as a cover hex, I agree with you that's effective in forcing the target to choose between bad and worse. (I wouldn't use pressure, since that has a specific meaning in PvP.) 75.37.22.3 15:49, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Btw, you put WW not WD, you could be thinking of the other skill. Don't know if it is relevant, I just guess they could work differently. :o Solliloqe 15:54, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

WD/WW are about the same utility as covers, since both recharge quickly enough to re-apply (and they both have the same defect: poor covers if the target has its own hex removal). 75.37.22.3 15:59, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit conflict: i was about to say that, anyway problem solved. DemonicFahrir 16:01, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes, nice edit. ty. 75.37.22.3 16:13, 5 October 2011 (UTC)