Talk:Zaishen Challenge Quest/april-may09

PvP is not PvE. Ups, now it is will be. --Gah Eat my uber regen. 18:23, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

PvP isn't, but the Zaishen have always been both PvE and PvP. Oops, your mistake. 145.94.74.23 19:43, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention Linsey said that the Mission and Bounty quests will be for PvE-Only. Another mistake. :P -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 09:33, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

So then, the only quests for PvPers are PvP quests? Rewarding extra for things you'll do anyway? Well, the extra rewards will be nice, but I forsee a drop in Zaishen Key prices again with extra faction/stuff with no extra work. Plus lots more noobs in concerned areas. --Gah Eat my uber regen. 17:44, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

More noobs in high-level areas, but also more oppourtunities for inexperienced players to find a party and actually get to play in those areas and learn how not to be noob. Team up with other noobs, supply experienced players with some free wins, and learn how the game works while getting rewarded for it: win-win. --Mme. Donelle 00:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Noobs need to stay in PvE until they're not noobs, imho. If you don't know how to play, don't start in PvP. --Gah Eat my uber regen. 21:45, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

"Learn how the game works" = learn how to PvP. Apologies for bad wording. --Mme. Donelle 21:24, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

(@ Gah): Uhm, no. PvP is totally different to PvE. In PvE it doesn't always even matter if you have a good build or not, and different things work, and you don't have to expect foes to bring certain things as you know what they have. PvP is a whole different style. Even just the idea that in PvP there are some very set builds (e.g. Shock Axe, Infuser et.c.) and that the way things work is pretty much set (there's a status quo) is new to PvEers. 86.26.204.160 11:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Um not to but in but if the noobs stay in pve, how are they gonna learn how NOT to be noobs in pvp?74.173.107.209 11:03, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much my point. One thing I hate about this game (well, more its players) is the way noob is used as such an offensive word (OK there's some discussion about the nuances of "noob", "newb", "newbie" et.c. but still). If someone is new (from which the word comes) then they can't be expected to know anything about the game and it's not their fault; we were all like that once. If they're just thick then fair enough, but then by calling them "noob" you kind of imply that other people who really are just new are also thick. But anyway. 86.27.138.133 16:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I absolutely agree with you. If the player is just thick and refuses to learn how to play PvP properly, then perhaps the word 'noob' fits, but calling everyone 'noobs' just because a Monk is healing the damage on a Juggernaut or a Turtle? It's annoying, and hurtful for some, because they're trying. It's not their fault another player is countering them, :( Besides, calling someone a 'noob' isn't going to make them WANT to learn or ask for help, out of fear of being called names again. Elysea 07:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

lolWoW

Dailies, anyone?-- anguard 17:08, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Same thing I thought :P Sentry007 23:19, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Interesting

I wonder if these will make doing some missions more interesting(e.g. putting limitations to your party and so on), I'd like to see these quests have time limits, character limits or maybe even skill limits.(marsc 19:13, 12 April 2009 (UTC))

IMO party size limits would be a bad idea. Profession discrimination is already horrible due to poor PvE balance (when's the last time you saw GLF paragon or GLF ritualist in party search?). -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 22:33, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

QQ He never said party size limits :P Even though I think it matters little. 81.69.210.23 23:01, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure "character limits" refers to "limits on the number of characters". -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:12, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

its funny that you say "you never see glf para" because when i think of pve i think para=imbagon=pro damage reduction= win.75.165.115.205 07:51, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

One viable build for a whole profession (in PvE), sounds lovely, I'm sure. --AlexEternal 09:25, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to see differences aside from rewards. But not in party size limits. More in lack of PvE-only skills usable, or stronger enemies with bigger party size limits. (would love to go in Great Northern Wall with 8 people against level 30 Charr xD). I hope the builds, at least, were changed a bit, would make it a little more interesting. Perhaps adding the latter professions here and there as well? >_> But that's asking for too much I guess... -- Azazel The Assassin\talk

They're not going to change the missions and so on, they are going to add new quests that have completion of the mission as the objective. Backsword 21:39, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but it would be nice if they made the objectives of the quests a bit different from the objectives of the missions (atm it's just mission, bonus and hard mode, which is no different to doing the mission normally but that you get more rewards for it). I'd like it if they could set some sort of different challenge as the second objective, as it would let us try out old mission in new ways, and replay things without being bored. 86.27.138.133 16:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Economy

Anyone else seeing upcomming angst with everlasting tonics and the possible flood of extra Zkeys? (depending on the rewards from the daily mish's)... It's my speculation that some of the long time high priced everlastings are gonna tank in price with much greif due to the yearly cycle of tonics starting over 192.203.160.241 12:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

More stuff for the poor. --Arduinna 21:36, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Good. Now more players can afford items that don't do anything important and the rich players can continue being rich. 68.193.113.198

In before...

PvPers saying "What only 1 pvp quest 2 pve qeust wtf why wtf". 68.193.113.198

What gives you the idea that PVP players enjoy quests? We're more likely to ask why no new competitive maps, AI/hero fixes, skill balances, etc... Which we already do. So you're actually late to your own topic. 68.215.248.14 18:37, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

I think if PvPers cared about quests, they'd be playing PvE, but then again, there never seems to be a shortage of things for people to whine about in this game. Daedelus 13:30, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Information avaliable

Can someone please update what the actual rewards are for the ZCQs. I only had time to log in swiftly this morning and theorise that it was a bit of EXP, a Bit of Faction (related to the quest) and a chance for some coins... but how many coins do ya get? and how is it different from completing the bonus goal...

If you go to the quest boards it tells you. I forgot the bounty but the mision is 20 copper in NM and 50 for HM and the PvP goes you 100 and 200 for whatever the bonus is for it.-- anguard 12:35, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Was the coin reward fixed or is it random. I dont recall reading a set number of coins on the boards 192.203.160.241 12:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

So -far- it seems fixed, but a full day hasn't gone by so we haven't seen any other quests.-- anguard 12:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

It's fixed but varies based upon which bonuses you do, if any. 86.26.204.160 13:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Daily per account or per character?

Are these challenges daily per account or daily per character? - Decollete 14:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Per character. Or, at the very least you can accept them on multiple characters. Have only completed it on one characters so far. Will try it on a second after class. Further probing into the limitations of the system will have to wait twenty four hours for tomorrow's quests. We can only have three Zaishen Challenge Quests in our log, but I personally want to know if it is possible to save up three mission quests or if the limit is one of each type.--75.102.128.67 16:17, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

It might be somewhat open to interpretation, but the initial info indicates that you can have three Zaishen quests in your log at any one time. To me, that means you could log in for three days and pick up the bounty quest only each day, having three quests in your log, or one of each type. Haven't tested, though. Freedom Bound 22:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The challenges are per character. I have completed Blacktide Den with 3 characters. 76.30.79.54 07:47, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Molotov.

Where the damn hell is he?!?!? --Sam6555 17:40, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Same place as always. Just killed him. Backsword 17:41, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Hes not there, serching all over NM and HM. Oh well new updates = more bugs. --Sam6555 17:42, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

nvm just found him in an area we had searched through . :S --Sam6555 17:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Search it in the woods north from the spawning point Nikademo 23:27, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Thats where we found him, we went into the big green opening in the area, usually he rushes you when you spawn the devourers. But we eventually decided to go north a little and found him .:) --Sam6555 17:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

He likes to go pay a visit to the Mantids North from the plain he usually is. MithTalk 18:42, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

How long?

Is this just for the special event, or will they go on indefinitely? Invincible Rogue 19:25, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

no way they'd put that much effort in an event thing. No, this is supposed to cycle forever. Backsword 22:03, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Probably like, 50 quests each thing maybe. -- Halogod35 22:04, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The PvP ones are obviously going to cycle faster since there is only so many types. But the mission and boss bountys should cycle for a pretty long time since there is ~60 missions and several hundred bosses. Benjammn311 23:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Um 70 Missions including eotn.74.173.107.209 10:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

"Zaishen Combat: Win 5 consecutive in RA with the skills Frenzy and Healing Signet on your skill bar." Paddymew 16:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Logging Quests

Are we really supposed to make a list of these daily quests, perhaps they will be recycled but who knows this list might go on forever! shouldn't we just provide links to all missions and elite missions/dungeons and quests pages instead instead of like 50pages of the daily quests that HAVE happened. another idea could be move this to another section altogether and call it previous daily quests while on this page keep the current quests and maybe tips and guides on them (might take more time however, could just link the quests to the actual quest page since tips and guides are already avaiable on most pages) thoughts? Zyko Wolfven 09:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Making a list won't hurt, since at any given point of time the game is finite. Now, there is still a chance that the list might be in the hundreds, so some effort should be taken to trim the fat on what we display. Listing all the quests in the order given might be too much. Possibly just making note of the original release dates on the quest pages? Also linking to the category page, like this... likeCategory:Zaishen_Mission_quests... I can't appear to make an internal hyperlink to a category page. Well there goes that idea.--Ryan Galen 16:25, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

what we can do is archive the quests when the each month ends. That way there there for reference, but don't clutter the main article. ~PheNaxKian Talk 16:29, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree with this, that way we still have references of previous ones and we will be able to see what sort of a cycle the system works on later.~Sower~ 19:31, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

i like phenaxkian's idea, how about weekly archiving instead though? 92.238.76.95 22:58, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I think we should list the quests within each group alphabetically. If the tables get too large, we could move them to the Zaishen Bounty, Zaishen Combat and Zaishen Mission articles, or create a separate article like list of Factions quests and list of Eye of the North quests. As for information on which quests have been available on each day, I think we should handle those the same way we handle Nicholas Sandford's daily item requests, with a separate research subpage and a transcluded message indicating the current and recent quests. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

well... you heard the guy let's do this! i have no idea about wiki i dont even have a page lol Zyko Wolfven 08:05, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Possibly just make subpages for the lists of quests of each type (i.e. Mission, Bounty and Combat) but keep the explanation of all of them together on this page, as it is now (i.e. just move the list of quests). And imo listing them in order is better since you might want to look back to see what recent ones were, and it would be less effort than alphabetically, but whatever. 82.26.28.102 19:02, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

We already have Zaishen Bounty, Zaishen Combat and Zaishen Mission articles. -- 01:57, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Timezones

I hate timezones. *Moves everyone to one central location*. Okay, so. I think it might be worth putting more timezones on this maybe? It changes every day, so people will be looking at it a lot and be going "But what's that in my time zone". Would it be worth putting the US timezones, UK+Ireland, The two euro timezones, a couple of Asia-y ones and then some for Australia? Or are we going to go on the basis that people in their country should know the timezones throughout (You'd be surprised how many people don't though. Just hang out in a festival town a few hours before an event "When is X" "At XPM Pacific" "I live in Eastern, when's that?"

I know it's not the wikis place to educate people on timezones, but it would help the community as a whole I think.

Discuss. :) Fae 09:29, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Couldn't people just more to another timezone and get the quest early then, i think the current system works, but more in favor of the americas because 6pm for europe is a tad late and 4am is a bit early for asia Zyko Wolfven 09:32, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Even worse is that the quests change at 12 noon Pacific local time (PDT in summer, PST in winter). Find a decent way to describe that, then people can go to the Time and Date website for the rest. 76.30.79.54 09:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Listing all the time zones relevant will clutter the page, and determining what is relevant always leaves us with problems. We should state the "ANet" time on the page and link to time zone converters. - anja 09:41, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Listing ANet time and then UTC (it is Universal after all), alongside a link to a time converter would be an acceptable solution, IMO. Listing loads would be clunky and annoying. So having "Home Time" and Universal sounds spiffy to me. :) Fae 09:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Zyko, you seem to be confused. Fae was suggesting that we list more time zones in the Zaishen Challenge Quest article. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 09:54, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I see that now, i'm always confused Zyko Wolfven 09:59, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I think that listing 2 time zones is sufficient, one in PST (or PDT, whatever Anet uses), and UTC. UTC is the only one required, because everyone has a giant UTC clock at the top of the page. just my thoughts =p. ~PheNaxKian Talk 10:39, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Gogo GMT! 86.26.204.160 11:15, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Kinda strange to be talking about timezones when the listed time isn't when the quests change... 66.190.15.232 16:20, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

i thought they were wrong to begin with, it appears to be about 16:00 UTC. but before we change it might be worth seeing when it is tomorrow. ~PheNaxKian Talk 16:22, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Yea, it happened 3 hours earlier than I had calculated but that's probably just me.-- anguard 16:28, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Quests per character

Is anyone else worried by the fact that, when they fix not being able to put coins in storage (which I hope they do soon), people will be able to get unlimited coins a day by re-rolling PvP characters. For example, the AB quest gave 25 coins for 2 matches plus 50 for winning by 200 or more, plus another 100 if you did 6 matches or more. Rather than winning 6 to get 125 coins, you could just re-roll and win 2 three times, to get 75-225. Admittedly, making more money this way would rely on getting the second bonus, but the point is that you could get lots through a method which I don't think is meant to be used. 86.26.204.160 13:22, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Worried? Not that much. There's only so much time in a day, and I don't see re-rolling PvP characters all day long to be a faster way of getting the coins then just using all your characters to the best of your ability. Even with just four characters, completing four missions in a day takes a good two hours. Limiting yourself to PvP objectives, it is potentially more since you don't always win. I think we'll be fine. There will be some people who do it anyway, but we should still be fine.--Ryan Galen 16:02, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Not really a problem with the market since the Zcoins can't be sold. Blood Red Giant 19:23, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Most items you acquire with them can. MithTalk 19:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Multiple of Same Category of Quest?

I know that you can only have three Zaishen Quests in your quest log at once, but do they all need to be different categories? Can I have one Bounty and two Combat? I want to hold on to the AB Combat quest until I get all 6 for the extra bonus. I've cleared Blacktide, Molotov, Thunderhead, and Coldstone, so the AB is the only active quest in my log. Can I take the Team Arena Combat quest without losing the AB quest? PJ 21:45, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Ow didn't know it took me 15 minutes to adjust my post below, but to answer your question atm you can have 3 quests per type of zaishen challenge (so 9 in total), but I don't know if it's a bug or not.

Second paragraph says not a bug. 66.190.15.232 22:55, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Quest log

Well it says you can only have 3 Zaishen Challenge quests in your quest log, but atm I have 6 in my quest log. I think it's 3 quests per type of Zaishen Challenge (Bounty, Missions, Combat), so that would be 9 Zaishen Quests in total. So this "you can only have three in your quest log at once" should be "You can only have three quests in your quest log per type of Zaishen Challenge at once" or something similar. If anyone wants/needs proof of this I took a screenshot.

Caption text

This might also be a bug but that I will only know tomorrow with a new batch of quests.Qaletaqa 22:00, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

As said by 66.190.15.232, in the official webpage it is stated that "your Quest Log can only hold up to three of each type of Zaishen Challenge Quests", so that you can have up to 9 Zquests in your log at a given time. I've edited the main article for clarification.-- Beren (Talk | contribs) 10:27, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I didn't read the official anouncements good, just looked at it and closed it. Well next time i'll be sure to read them properly :). Qaletaqa 20:51, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

ANOYING

I've never been good at todays combat so how the am I supposed to complete it, same with first days stupid kanaxi thing.74.173.107.209 10:50, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Don't sweat it. Abandon the hard ones, and wait for one that better suits you and your playing style. For example, I've only completed Prophecies so far, and am about half-way through Factions. As such, I haven't done any of the PvP ones, only a couple of the Missions, and one bounty. There will be many I can't do, especially given the time, or lack thereof, I can invest in playing. Just have fun with it, nothing is a requirement. Ralmon the Gen 11:19, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

That equals being mad at HM just because it's hard mode. ANet didn't make the game so that everyone could complete everything. They made sure that everyone could complete something. Paddymew 16:04, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Yer the Zuests want to reward the best of the best... working up a few PvE skills should open up builds in PvE that help you cheat your way against the cheating hard mode enemys... MrPaladin 16:07, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Calculations

According to my calculations, I'll NEVER be able to get an equipment bag. In four days, there have been a total of three "do-able" quests. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to forget they even exist, since it's yet more content that's not at all friendly for players to get. --Emkyooess 17:36, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

There are different types of those bags.. Smaller ones are easier to get.. poke | talk 17:46, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. You only need 250 copper coins to get an equipment bag. I don't know which quests you consider "doable", but the smallest reward so far has been 10 coins. If there's a 3/4 chance that a particular day has a doable quest, and it's always a 10-coin reward, it would take you about 34 days to get the small equipment pack. Maybe not as fast as you want, but a month is not "never". 76.6.22.106 18:07, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

You also imply one is playing each and every day. --Emkyooess 19:47, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Interestingly, it's also pretty much impossible to get R15 without playing every day and winning, funny that. Misery 20:55, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

It takes 5 minutes to log into the game, accept all the quests, and log off. Later, you can come and do the "do-able" quests when you have time, the starts align, or a "balance update" screws PvE/PvP enough for it.--Fighterdoken 20:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Whatever "R15" is. I'm assuming rank? Rank doesn't have a mechanical effect on the game. It's not a basic feature like the packs are. The packs aren't even remotely "novelty" items/alternates skins/vanity. --Emkyooess 22:27, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Emkyooess, your cause has my complete sympathy and support. :P I also think that equipment packs are basic equipment and not prestige items. And by that I mean that they have a noticeable impact on gameplay, unlike weapon/armor skins, (everlasting) tonics or minipets. Thus I think it's wrong to have to "grind" to get them. That's not a thing we've grown used to in Guild Wars. --Adul 23:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

They are far from necessities, I know by now that if I have more storage it just means I will store more crap I don't need. I've done without them for 4 years, I don't magically need them now, they will be nice when I do finally obtain them. Misery 23:27, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

"Necessity" or not isn't the point -- they're NOT vanity items. Arg, I just get so frustrated that people like you (and all of the others who always shout "stop QQing" without any ability for rational thought) don't understand that. They're now a core feature of the game, with no way to replicate in a non-vanity without massive grind. I wish the elitist/grind players would really stop dominating the dev's time and let them get back to the fun casual game GW once was and was meant to be. --Emkyooess 00:40, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

You can buy the small eqp packs for 2.5k... since you can only do 3 other weapons and 2 other helms for various build this is sufficient... now if your needing to tote a completly different set of armour when you enter new area's you might consider visiting your chest or grinding the gold coins... 192.203.160.241 12:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

The size of them doesn't matter. They're a core feature -- everyone should be able to attain them with reasonable effort. As they currently are, the effort is well beyond reason. --136.142.214.19 13:16, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

To expand your basic inventory is easy... to get the basic packs is easy... if getting the large packs were as easy as a small pack it'd be like buying a large coke when theres free refills on the small... If you want extra pack space for little to no effort it is avaliable to you... but if you want the huge storage that you can only store in extra armours or excessive weapons (which arnt easy to obtain either) then you can work for it... I see not problem with this... 192.203.160.241 13:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Since you insist on the false utilitarian point of view, and believe that money is never of any concern: Each row is one set of alternate armor. Considering that most professions have 4+ armor changes available, not having the largest bag would put you at a serious disadvantage over those that do. --136.142.214.19 14:53, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

And what were they doing before the addition of the bags? seriously... the small storage is cheep, the big storage is more expensive... seems pretty basic to me... you want the bigger and better you have to pay for it in either time or money... If your big time enough to need to hold 4 sets of armour on your character spend a few K and buy Zoins off players to save yourself the time... The yare easily attainable by the players who are in need of the storage space. MrPaladin 15:14, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Unattainably more expensive for the larger ones. Only the smaller ones are viable, because of their alternate acquisition methods that do not use the coins. Read the history above to see why. 34 playing days just for one? Unreasonable. Notice that Zoins are *not* tradable. --136.142.214.19 15:20, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

34 days is unattatainable in GW terms? I was thinking more some of the insane titles in this game are unattainable... 34 days seems more in the rank of focused effort... My bad on the Zoins tho... I'm sure they'll fix the trade bug on em MrPaladin 15:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

The design docs say they're not meant to be tradable. IE, not a bug. --136.142.214.19 16:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Well take a look at all the new rank titles for EOTN, you need the ranks just to craft the armor and the weapons. Dero Ahmonati 15:43, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Also a very, very bad thing. --136.142.214.19 15:54, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Anyway as soon as people who do grind start to get the heavy packs, I daresay they'll be willing to sell them. It'll probably take a bit of a while yet, and they'll probably be overly expensive to start off with, but the point is that wait a while and you won't have to grind at all (or at least, not for ZCoins - you'll need money, but you can get that lots of ways). 82.26.28.102 18:57, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

As the one who posted the original 34-day calculation, I wanted to reply to those a few indents above. The 34 days was the *maximum* time it would take if you could only do minimum reward (10 coin) quests, and on any given day there was only a 75% chance you could do *one* of the quests. Also, since you can buy the small bag from merchants, you can hopefully earn 2,500 gold in other ways even faster. Personally, I've already acquired enough coins for the small pack, and it wasn't hard at all -- killed a few bosses, did a couple of missions. Some in hard mode, some not. Not playing any HM would take a little longer. As for the pack itself, so what? Unless I'm missing something, it's just some extra storage. Convenient, yes. Critical, no. It's not like I can't store extra weapons and armor in my other bags as it is. But to hear some tell it, the game must have been unplayable for the 4 years these things didn't exist. 76.6.22.106 01:17, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Again -- said like someone's playing every day. Again -- said like hard mode is even an option. Convenience doesn't matter -- it's a core addition to the game that isn't purely cosmetic, like a minipet, armor skin or title -- it (of any size) should be reasonably acquirable by anyone. The pack basically enables you to have weapon and armor swaps. --136.142.214.19 12:43, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

But it's not like you need extra sets of armor. All sets, assuming max AL, are equal in terms of the damage protection they offer. Any extra sets of armor are vanity items. If you "need" the equipment bag for this reason, then yes, they are an extension of vanity items. Even for weapons, most caster classes are good with one or two at a time, and even with melee classes, the most you would need is four. If you've just got one set of armor and a few weapons, that leaves you with a lot of room for drops, and effectively making the equipment packs a non-essential item for gameplay. --★KOKUOU★ 13:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Naw there are some differences in the armour... the most obvious examples are 55/600 sets where you would change out the entire armour set... for other classes you could have a high energy or high health set... but for most gameplay purposes these are small advantages and most people run one particular set that supports their favored build... MrPaladin 13:28, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I suppose, but that is a very rare and specific case. Most people don't even do 600/smite builds, and I don't think I've used or seen a 55 build being used very much lately except in maybe The Deep. Still, my point that (most) people with two or more sets of armor have that many because they are armor collectors and not for specific builds. --★KOKUOU★ 16:27, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Seriously? When does someone ever need to change armor in the middle of an instance? Don't 55 monks and 600 monks use different skills? What is the point of this "must have extra armors sets on character" attitude? I have played the game for over 3 years now and the only time I've ever changed equipment in an instance was my weapon. Bringing additional armors in an instance is pointless except as a place to store them (which is why they added the extra xunlai chest panes). Just put your extra armors in your xunlai storage and change armors when you are back in an outpost. Gold Chocobo 17:14, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

It's more about cleaning out storage and keeping character specific stuff with my character for me. I have 10 characters and even with the storage update I still won't have enough storage if I choose to do as you say. I may be a pack rat when it comes to items but these equipment bags will give me access to much more storage.

Re: Never gonna get a bag - Nonsense. The smallest bag is purchasable at a merchant. It will hold an entire set of primary weapons, and two off-hands. If you want a larger bag, quit whining and get one. I never play HM, and I never PvP, (I got no skillz) and I am halfway to a ten-slot in two weeks. I am debating with myself getting the ten-slot, or hold out a bit longer for the fifteen-slot. None of my secondary characters need anything more than 5-slots right now, and I'll save my coins until they do. - JgzMan 18:05, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

April 26th quests

Was the whole point to show how broken Ray of Judgment continues to be? 66.190.15.232 21:35, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

They tend to ignore these problems unless they get QQ GvGers, QQ HA players or someone on their team notices it, which ever comes first.--ShadowFog 00:00, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

What's broken with it? Seems to work just fine, even when used by my heroes. Of course, if you mean that your heroes don't understand to move out of the way... well, that's why they are AI (artificial), but you are in command and can control them. If controlling your heroes is a problem for you and all the qq'ers, maybe space invaders or pac-man is a better game for you. 76.30.79.54 00:20, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

You seem to be missing the point. You are better off playing pong.--ShadowFog 00:27, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Nope, same difference. All three oldies require only paying attention to your own movement, rather than looking beyond your own pixelized shape. However, I think I know where you're coming from: if you are referring to being hit by something, then yes, pong would be better since you want to be hit by that something. 76.30.79.54 02:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Still playing pong?--ShadowFog 03:34, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Mr. 76.30.79.54:(http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3069703). Mr.76.30.79.54 I suggest you make an user account so you can take your mud slinging elsewhere.--Wealedout 04:47, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Hehe, that's pretty funny, Mr/s. Wealedout. Thanks for the laugh. Sorry if what you regard as mud slinging offended you. Perhaps you should turn your attention to the much greater offense of qq bombardment against the fine work that Anet has given us, instead of trying to be pseudo wiki-police. At least ShadowFog shows a great sense of humor. As to my IP, I have an excellent IP. I don't need to hide behind a letter-based pseudonym. Why are you? ;p Nevermind, don't answer that. We've gone too far off topic already. Case closed. 76.30.79.54 12:45, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

lol,76.30.79.54 wants to have last word while being offensive, ain't that cute.--Wealedout 15:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

To get back to the point, both PacMan and Pong actually require you to look beyond your own pixelized shape (Monsters and other person's pixelized shape, respectively), at least if you want to do well. Actually, on reflection, that probably wasn't the point, but I think it got lost in there somewhere. 82.26.28.102 18:59, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

I dare repeat the question, but with no malevolence, why do you say RoJ is broken? Yes, heroes / henchmen don't recognize it as an area of effect spell, but neither do foes. And I personally find this convenient, since there aren't so many foes who have it, but there are a lot of foes I can use it against successfully. Or perhaps you consider this to be a form of cheating?... The Masquerader 11:33, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Gaining any kind of benefit exploiting any kind of bug is. MithTalk 12:08, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Well for PvE, in dungeons and Factions you have to micromanage every hero that comes in contact with it and if that teammate is not a hero then you will have to move your whole henchie army everytime because you cant micromanage them. For PvP, JQ can be run successfully by one profession only, the Monk and any variant of Mo/X. They can cap, defend the carrier and defend shrine all at the same time. They dont need to fight since the shrines will be doing that for them and it kills the suicide necro builds since last stated, they can defend the shrine too. If the AI could recognize this as an area of effect spell, the Monk would have to put at least a little more effort. Of course, if at the end of the beating stick, you are the one holding the baton, then surely is convenient for me or anyone for the AI not to recognize it as an area of effect spell. My two cents.--ShadowFog 12:16, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

The only thing broken with RoJ IMO is that the AI doesn't recognize it as AoE. The damage seems inline for a full nuke compared to something like Savannah Heat because RoJ does slightly more total damage for a full nuke (98 burning + 240=338 at R16 vs 315 at R16 for ele), costs more energy and recharges slightly faster, but Savannah has Nearby range and it has Adjacent. As for JQ, I used to run RoJ, but they are easy targets for 'sins and rangers so I switched to Prot. I'm tempted to play ranger - Barragers seem to work well from high ground, and most have interrupts, so RoJ'ers are mostly pincushions. --Falseprophet 18:07, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

News flash: Monks aren't eles. ~Shard 01:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Uh, yeah. RoJ > Eles --adrin 03:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Uh, no. The armour-ignoring damage is better than, say, fire, and the burning on each hit is also more powerful than most ele nukes, but RoJ is adjacent wheres SH, Searing Heat and Teinai's Heat for example are all nearby, and that range difference has a big effect (you can run out of RoJ without ever getting hit, with no speed boost). Plus, SH does more damage (to AL 60 targets at least) after a couple of hits, and eles can take 3-4 DoT AoEs rather than just one. The main problem with RoJ is the AI. 86.31.110.55 21:55, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

That's what I have been saying since day one. I'm a lousy PvP player, but I have no trouble avoiding RoJ's. Range is what defines the power of DoT nukes, not the damage. 145.94.74.23 14:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

PvP Bias?

Compare the sum of PvE coin rewards to the PvP coin rewards each day. You'll notice that there has only been ONE day that PvE gave more coins that PvP. Most of the time the single PvP reward are hugely outweighting the combined reward of the PvE quests. Wouldn't it make sense for the combined total for PvE be equal to the total for the PvP quest so people that play one or the other exclusivly have an even shot at getting the new items? 68.113.151.226 23:21, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

• But then the PvE'ers will have double coins as PvPers. if your not even PvE, why do you want the quests? The rewords contain almost no benifit for PvP.

How is there no benefit from the rewards for pvpers? (im am assuming that rewords = rewards here). Equipment packs? hmm... very useful considering the amount of weapons and armour that are lugged about on characters for pvp, can also sell them if no more are needed, same with zkeys or flames of balthazar. That is enough. (and if you dont want them you dont do the quests same as pve) Divine 01:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Where are these quests located? In the Battle Isles? No wonder the pvp quests give more loot in a pvp game. ~Shard 01:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I think the prerequisites are also a strong factor. 3 wins for GvG; 6 wins for Alliance Battle, Heroes' Ascent, and Hero Battles; 9 wins for Jade Quarry and Team Arena. This is PvP. Unlike PvE, playing good isn't good enough if the other side is playing even better. I've been working on the Jade Quarry on and off, and I've only just got qualified for the minimum reward.--Ryan Galen 14:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

True. The skill level of PvP does vary, and that does occasionally pit you against more skilled opponents. However, unlike PvE, you also have a chance (a good chance, too) of being pitted against a foe who's been playing the game for most of an hour before you show up to squash them, and you only need to get lucky with matchmaking six times or so to get the highest rewards on some of these. Excluding Heroes' Ascent's "get to the Hall of Heroes" bonus, most of the PvP bonuses can be achieved using only patience, luck, and a basic knowledge of the game. --Kite 00:56, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

PvP is always 50:50, for every person that wins, there is someone that loses, there is nothing easy or hard about PvP, it is neither skilled or unskilled. By definition, the skill level of PvP play is average. Unfortunately, many PvP players have way too high an opinion of themselves. Whatever your skill, in these challenges, you basically need to play twice as many matches as wins you need for the reward.81.86.254.13 18:33, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

On average. It's pretty much a zero-sum thing. 86.31.110.55 21:46, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Bad edit from a bad wiki user, but how is PvP neither skilled nor unskilled? It's not a 50/50 chance. That's looking at chance in entirely the wrong way. A good player can win 5-10 times in a row. A bad player can lose 5-10 times in a row. Although a good player might lose, they don't lose quite so often. So no, I doubt that new players can jump into HA, and win every other match. I doubt new players can jump into GvG and win every other match. Perhaps they'll have some help in that during HA Quest day, there'll be hundreds of other newbies about trying to play, but I'm fairly certain that an experienced HA team is going to beat a new HA team.

tl;dr, You can't just say it's 50/50. good players win in series, bad players lose in series. 86.28.222.202 19:01, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

You forget, leechers in the Jade Quarry aren't a 50/50 chance. They're practically guaranteed. --RoyHarmon 22:54, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Abandoned Zaishen Quests

Just a little note about abandoning zaishen quests. If you somehow abandon a zaishen quest, it seems it's gone for good contrary to the pve quests we're used to, so players should be warned about this. It only happened with the pvp quest so far, the HA one, abandoned it and it didn't appear again on the board (altough i didn't try to rezone the same moment to see if it refreshed - came back later anyhow and it still wasn't there so i think it goes away for good) AshTempus 06:15, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

The quests that the board displays change each day, so you only have that one day to accept the quest. So even though an accepted quest will remain in your quest log, if you abandon it after a day has passed, you won't be able to pick it up again. The current displayed quests can be accepted and abandoned over and over until the next set of quests are diplayed. Tedium 06:46, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen Quests --> Zaishen Title Points?

I think it would be a nice implimentation if Zaishen Quests gave a few Zaishen title track points, as well, both are related to the Zaishen. I currently think that farming through Zaishen Keys is 1) Horribly Slow (to obtain the keys and then to boringly click the chest over and over again 2) Very costly if you want to buy your keys. 82.124.84.182 15:35, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

This would make it way to easy to get Z points, especialy when people have spent 10,000's of $$$ buying and using zaishen keys. Flaming hot chilli 08:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Four Stygian Lords on HM for 105 z-coins

Is it joke? --Titus andronicus 17:47, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Cha. Guess which one I -didn't- do today.-- anguard 21:24, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Like Kunvie yesterday, huh? PvE rewards are a bit low compared to the PvP ones :( poke | talk 22:31, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

The worst thing is most of the people there have never done DOA so just go in on hard mode thinking it will be a walkover then stand around not sure what to do before someone takes the quest to early and gets the whole group wiped. Might be best to wait a few days to do this one, or find a guild group. --Lemming 22:37, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Some of them do need some twaking. There is quite some discrepancy between HM and NM too. They don't seem to count how hard is to get to the boss, just to kill the boss, as if all of them where available just by the door like Shiro or the Doppelganger. If they want just to count the Boss, they should add a little arena in which you enter, the boss and its party spawns, and you kill it. Otherwise 'getting there' should be counted. Imagine going to kill Rotscale in HM for 50 coins. Meh... I'd rather make and delete some PvP caracters. MithTalk 23:40, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it should've been Dreadspawn Maw to encourage people to progress through the Domain of Anguish. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:06, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I look at like this, though - for every Kunvie, there will be a Molotov Rocktail (which literally took less than 1 minute in HM). My only concern is daily limits on accounts. I can get 10 times more by re-rolling the PvP character, something that you can't do in PvE. I'm sure the servers will explode the 1 day that Chahbek Village is offered. --Mystisteel 01:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Well, I did do Kunvie yesterday... I used the occasion to vanquish Unwaking Waters. I wouldn't even think of doing the Stygian Veil in hm for 105 ZCoins, though... unless my guild was on a DoA run or something. 90.15.11.210 02:45, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I also did the vanquish while I was there, considering I was at 75% or so by the time I reached him. But when I have the choice between rerolling a PvP character for 100s a day and running HM Stygian for 100, to heck with that. Higher up in this page, a player was complaining that PvE takes no skill, and it's all about PvP. As someone who does more PvP than PvE, I have to say that unless you're talking high-end competition (Halls, SOME GvG), PvP is a complete, no-skill joke. I can literally walk into nearly any PvP Zmission (expect the first day's) with a mending warrior, and take home way more than I do in PvE. The balance in skill for tokens, particularly with re-rolling PvP chars, is broken. --Mystisteel 03:24, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, given that you can't re-roll PvE chars, I think the rewards should be higher. I myself have only done Molotov Rocktail so far since the others just don't really interest me enough for the low payout given the effort. I mean doing a Deep run is meant to take ages (I've never actually done it all the way myself) and gives about as many coins as winning a few in RA. That doesn't seem quite right, especially given the ease with which you can just re-roll and get more RA coins. 86.31.110.55 21:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

But the Deep gives it's own rewards as well. Personally, I'm just saving the quest until my guild does a Deep raid again. They're loads of fun with a large group, especially if you're not going for a speed run but to have a fun afternoon. Be sure that everyone has at least 3 hours to spare though, just in case. Anyway, what was my point again...oh yes, I remember: keep the quest as an additional bonus when you actually play the Deep, rather than as a must have farm for Zcoins. 87.210.150.58 06:06, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

But non of the extra rewards received by killing thoses bosses will get you closer to the an equipment bag. We are not talking about something you can get somewhere else. If the rewards were just gold and points and the bags could be acquired by buying or crafting, that would be a different thing. In the case of Rotscale, the only extra rewards is a green item that only ONE of the party members will get for sure, and the rest will get usually nothing, just maybe a little chance for another green bow from one of the other dragons. ZCoins are separate rewards that can't be mixed with others. MithTalk 11:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, I think some of the bounty rewards could do with a little tweaking.... I mean, Verata HM for 35 ZCoins? It would sure be nice if the rewards could take necessary effort (time necessary) into account a bit more. There seems to be a difference whether you just dash out of an outpost and kill a boss in HM or whether you have to cross several explorables (in HM) to even get to the boss. But then, it is an add-on, nobody forces us to do a particular quest (apart from the desire to get that bag...) and I'm sure (keeps fingers crossed) that Anet staff will be monitoring the attractiveness of their various new inventions (and hopefully take action accordingly) --Iant 09:49, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

A pattern

It looks like each campaign has its' own sequence of mission quests. I predict that the next Prophecies mission quest will be Abaddon's Mouth, the next Factions mission quest will be Imperial Sanctum and the next Nightfall mission quest will be Venta Cemetery. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 00:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Oo, the imperial sanctum one will be awesomely easy... even though I can only access it on two characters :/ -- anguard 01:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

There are no pattern - as we saw a while ago :) --87.207.175.170 16:23, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

There is *always* a pattern. 86.31.110.55 21:40, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

the pvp ones need to be account based

I got 10 RA in a row but then switched to a different profession and lost the credit. i don't want to be forced to play on a single character to do it. --adrin 03:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

OMG you're not forced, you just was lame. Bonus is optional, you should take the reward before deleted your pvp character. And if you got 10 in a row, it's easy to got another 5 in a row for the second bonus. I done this with 3 times with my different characters, and i dont want the pvp zaishen quests to be account based, and i dont want to loose hundreds of zaishen coins beacuse of someone who was lame. --Zen Paradox 10:04, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Uhhh, so you want to punish people with multiple PvP specced characters and/or PvP slots because you only have one? That doesn't make sense. You don't have to turn them in on the day you got the quest and tbh, 15 wins is hardly a huge goal. Misery 10:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I just made one PvP monk and tore through RA with minimal losses. I'd go as far as to say it was kind of easy.-- anguard 13:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I got my 5 wins before my 15 on my ranger, I think I need like 2 more, I'll go pick them up tonight. I've queued the quest on all my PvP specced characters and I'll do them slowly over the next week or two when I have time/the urge to RA. Misery 13:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I don't think the account-wide zuests are a bad idea... at least not if they made the reward a little higher. Those are daily quests you can do with all chars.If there is a easy char you could just make a new pvp char and do quest again and again.ZOins will be too easy to farm for thos doing that.

Is it even possible to make quests update account-wide? There have never been any like that in-game, so probably not.

They could make it work if they really wanted to.-- anguard 02:08, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

They can limit the Faction earned in Zaishen challenges. All they need to do is limit the number of coins earned too. A red message "You cannot receive more coins today, but you will receive the other rewards" could appear instead the typical pistacchio green line with the received number of coins. MithTalk 04:27, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

The problem with them being character-based is that you can't switch to a different PvP character to complete something. This isn't always a big deal, but say you were trying to finish RA on your Paragon or HA on an out-of-fashion char. And yes you could just delete it and re-roll before starting but what if you have unfinished ZQuests from previous days you want to keep? Not everyone has bizillions of spare character slots to play around with. Also, the fact that people can do the quest then re-roll and do it again over and over is, I think, somewhat against the spirit of GW as it's just another form of grinding, and that's the very reason the limited the faction you get from the Zaishen Elite. Of course, if it were account-wide, they would have to make the quests bigger or at least more rewarding, as it would cut how much you could get from them quite dramatically. 86.31.110.55 21:39, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Quests are character based. They won't change it. ~Shard 22:16, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Heroes' Ascent, Zrepeat

Seems we have our first Zquest repeat... since its not in order looks like this could be randomized to some extent MrPaladin 16:13, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Wow.. IMO this was waaay too soon repeated. I have decent experience in HA and luckily yesterday I've finished the quest on one of my characters. Ok, there aren't THAT many options for pvp - but couldn't we get more variation somehow? -- Karasu (talk) 16:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Well there's only so much PvP to go around...-- anguard 16:18, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

^ the only PvP they've not done is Fort Apsenwood (is that spelt right? I'm too lazy to look it up >.>).... ~PheNaxKian Talk 16:32, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

FA is no PvP... its lame Kurzick biased Sh*t :/ But yeah there arent many Options at hand so we will see quite a few repeats in the future. --SilentStorm 16:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Zaishen and Zaishen Elite, FA and TA? Games? Create smaller PvP "challenges" to test out new formats? I'd love to see something like HB: 2 players, 2 hero's but with the HB or RA/TA principle. You can reuse all previous maps. Of course this would require _some_ extra coding, but at least it would make many people happy because it's new and shiney =P To reduce the amount of server space or games I'd say: give the quest each saturday/sunday and let it run for the whole week. If gamer points are a problem - lower them or disable them for that temporary type. -- Karasu (talk) 16:43, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

So has anyone found out what happens if you have both active: Do you have to do the deeds twice to get both rewards, or only once? If it is the latter, it could be worthwhile "storing" the quests on a char and then do 3 of them at the same time for tripple rewards. --Xeeron 11:42, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

They count as separate quests. So if you had your HA quest from last time, you could get it the second time it appeared, too. In which case, getting 2 wins would mean you completed the basic task for both quests at once. Mr J 12:02, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

My characters were unable to take doubles of the Hero Battles quest. This duplication of quests may have been corrected in the recent update. -- Dashface 02:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Maybe we could get some quests in the same areas but with different bonuses or whatever. I would quite like to see this for the Zaishen Missions too. For example instead of 2 Wins base, Halls for first bonus, 6 Wins for second bonus, you could have "win a flawless victory" for the first bonus or "win in under x minutes" or whatever. 86.31.110.55 21:29, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Listing Double Events

With HA beeing repeated today (with two days in between :D ) I would like to know what everyone thinks about how we should list them. Either we just continue adding a new line for each day or we do something like this Edit did. Personally I would prefer the former way. While the Tables might get long that way (they will anyway because of Zaishen Mission & Bounty) with the linked Edits Style the last Column will get excessively long and imho it cant be really seen that way if there are lots of dates in. I think we could make the tables sortable and then it can be easily seen how often a certain Area has been on the Zests so far. --SilentStorm 16:35, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Well the PvP ones were the most likely to repeat first, seeing as there are a very small number of pvp types. It will be interesting to see if there is a predictable pattern to them, I think we need more time to determine that though. --Lemming 16:56, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

I think we should just continue listing all quests that appear, no matter if they were there before or not, otherwise it will just get messy.. And we will have to archive the quest lists anyway so some more or less doesn't hurt.. poke | talk 23:29, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Archiving each couple of weeks/months?

And do we really need that Total line? Sure, we wanted to know when people would be able to get those required 50 gold zaishen coin, but... --NIN37 01:18, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

do they have the same quest id?--Lemming 06:26, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

If by that you mean can you only have one copy, then no. Additionally, getting 6 consecs in HA completed both quests. Quite the epic faction farm.

Today we got again HB. And the table get a new row - excatly the same as one of above. Ii this have any sense to make new rows in this table? PvP challanege is the same as few days ago, reward - the same, dfaction points - the same. Why should we copy challenges if theres nothing NEW to write? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Titus andronicus (talk • contribs) at 16:47, 2 May 2009 (UTC).

Because the date's different? I'd say it's still too early to decide on how we deal with repeated Zaishen quests. If there's a pattern to it, then we can improve on it. We'll probably have to split up this page to store the historical stuff separately from the current stuff as well. -- ab.er.rant 18:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

OK, date is different. You can find z-q sorted by date in first table/sectio - Quest overview. Everything (except the date - which is NOT shown in the last table) is the same. Also I bet there will be no pattern.--Titus andronicus 22:25, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, yea, date not listed. -- ab.er.rant 08:40, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

It wouldn't have been too hard to just add the date and then make the Tables sortable like I stated in my original Post to this matter... --SilentStorm 10:11, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Quest Reward Bug!

BE WARNED that if you finish one quest, yet are still working on others, the quest reward giver will NOT allow you to choose which quest reward you will receive. For example I finished Chung, the Attuned bounty, yet had already won 3 games at Fort Aspenwood up to that point. Speaking with Zhenchu [Zaishen Challenge] would not let me receive the reward for Chung unless I first accepted a 15 copper coin reward for the Fort Aspenwood mission. Having done that, now he says I must accept a 50 coin reward for Hero's Ascent (presumably since I've won 2 matches but I'm still working on it). So it appears you CANNOT choose which zaishen challenge you want to receive a reward for. I hope this gets fixed quickly. Flipper 19:29, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

All places where you can turn in multiple quests are like that, as far as I know. The only difference I see here is that each quest has different levels of completion, and it doesn't default to the most complete one. It's inconvenient, but not a bug.198.37.19.137 17:05, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. That's how quests have always worked with any NPCs that offer multiple quest rewards - you just can't pick which one to complete first. -- ab.er.rant 18:04, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

So how does it choose the order? Earliest at any completed stage comes up first, is my guess. The only workaround is focus on one quest at a time. Regardless, I think it takes less effort to have 1 quest reward npc, rather than each signpost be its own reward npc. Minus the rainbow phoenix+heros, the menagerie seems thoroughly designed and flawless. -.- --8765 06:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

As fa as I can tell, the quests that are located lower in the Quest log are first:

• 3
• 2
• 1

So far it was like that the last 3 times I tried. MithTalk 15:25, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Doubled Up Quests

They appear to have removed the ability to take a quest twice at the same time (at least for PvP) per the note at the bottom of the page. If someone else can confirm this for me, we should probably remove the note (I have HB on one of my characters, but am unable to take HB again today).--24.192.250.216 14:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Sure you haven't already 3 of those quests in your log? --Arduinna 19:03, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

I actually encountered the same thing, with the Hero Battles. Yesterday, when I went to the GToB to get the quests, I was unable to get a second Hero Battles quest with the first one unfinished in my quest log, :) And I only had that one left in the Zaishen Battle section, :) I should have thought to screenshot it though... ;_; Elysea 19:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmmm... seems Anet patched it quickly. Bummer, wanted to get all three RA's on a character and reap the huge rewards of it. --Arduinna 19:13, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Waiting Period

They need to make it where when you make a new character, that character has to wait until the next day to be able to get these quests. This would stop the people from rerolling their characters to get a bunch of zcoins. Gold Chocobo 21:38, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

How does this affect you? Does it in any way impede your playing? No. It doesn't. Drago 21:47, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

That's a really bad idea. Even if you are only doing it once you often need to roll a pvp char of the right class. If I were TAing the day before my slot might be a necro, then GvG quest comes up, but I can't get it because I usually run flags and don't have an ele rolled on my PvP slot, that's pretty crappy. Misery 22:06, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

He's not suggesting there be a waiting period for rerolling, only that freshly rolled (heh) characters cannot immediately take the quests. --BlueNovember 23:25, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

To rephrase his point: "Players can create and delete PvP characters to "farm" the zaishen pvp challenge. A solution for this would be to have disable a new character to take the quest on the same day as it's creation. The problem is that many pvp players delete and re-create a character to play different classes in PvP - this solution would make it much more difficult for "rerollers" (this doesn't mean farmer) to play PvP." -- Karasu (talk) 23:32, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

No, they do not harm anyone, but that doesn't matter. They reduced gold rewards in low-level quests in Factions and Nightfall to stop people that were 'farming' them. They also changed other things to require levels and stop creation-acquisiton-deletion-repeat behaviors. Don't you think this abuse will last too much. MithTalk 00:42, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

But why should it be stopped? People rerolling zaishen PvP quests = people available as opponents in PvP for others. People getting lots of zoins from quests = bags are gonna be cheaper to buy and sooner on market. Where are negatives? Zweistein 12:33, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

For the same reason all those other changes mentioned were added: abuse. You can' sell ZCoins, but you can sell anything you get from the collectors. So such behavior creates for thm more wealth than intended (they initially wanted to make them account-wide). They will definitely tweak the reward and the prices in collectors, and will probably make something about this too. MithTalk 14:49, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

There is ONE thing that would "solve" the rerolling. With the new addition of the character changer - I think they should add a PvP only changer (free, because people would use it so much) that would let you change profession. Might be tough on the code, but I'd love to see it.-- Karasu (talk) 10:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Percentage totals for coins of task types

these seem very irrelevant, the PvP reward is always higher, therefore the percentages will keep heading in the same directions as they tend towards infinitely large and small percentages. They don't actually provide any useful tangible information anymore. --Lemming 23:48, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Last I checked, an increasingly large absolute difference says nothing about the relative difference. From all appearances, they seem to be approaching a 1:1:3 ratio (or 20%/20%/60% if you prefer).

To illustrate, let's say the rewards for each day were 75 coins for the mission, 70 for the bounty, and 205 for the PvP mission, and they didn't vary. Just because the PvP rewards are higher, doesn't at all imply that the PvP percentage will go to 100%; in this case, it stays around 60%. While the real numbers vary, those are close to their averages, which are (approximately) 76, 70, and 205 currently.198.37.19.137 03:28, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia's asymptote, limit (mathematics) and margin of error articles for details. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Those articles are slightly overkill, referencing calculus in two of the three. The law of large numbers is basically the only concept you really need.198.37.19.137 04:35, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

I LOL'd. -- Karasu (talk) 10:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, these aren't asymptoting at all, they're just becoming more reliable as per the laws of statistics. The average itself (as in the average of all the quests the are and will ever be rather than of any specific group) is never going to change, it's just that the number we have is fluctuating about that and getting closer to it. So yeah, law of large numbers is the better one. 86.27.138.133 17:12, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Ok fine, you win. --Lemming 20:14, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Don't have to do Bonus/Masters in Hard Mode

My son (who also plays) asked me, as I was doing Consulate Docks a trillion times the other day: "Can you do the bonus in Normal Mode, then just the mission in Hard Mode, and still get all your zoins?" My immediate reaction was: who cares, it's Consulate Docks for goodness sake...just slam it out in HM and move on! Then I was doing it for the Nth time, an forgot to set hard mode. I was tired and didn't even notice until the shield came up at the end instead of the helmet. Cursing my stupidity, I decided to run the experiment for my son, on the theory that if you -did- have to get masters in HM, who cares, it's Consulate Docks...just slam it out ;-). Sure enough, having achieved masters in NM, then just the mission in HM, I got my 50 zoins. Just thought it might be worth mentioning here for players that don't normally play in HM and may struggle with some of the harder missions. ~Scion~ [GRIPE] 18:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

In most misions that's not important, but in some it would really help, like Eternal Grove. MithTalk 22:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed...that's why I thought it was worth noting! ~Scion~ [GRIPE] 01:59, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

I added it as a note to Zaishen Mission :) Don't know if we should add it here too, maybe? - anja 15:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I wondered whether it worked that way because while doing the mission in Hard Mode might not be all that bad, doing the bonus too could be realyl awkward in some situations, especially for casual players (like me) who don't do all that much hard mode stuff. 86.27.138.133 16:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Another good example is Sanctum Cay. Although they can be done at the same time, most of the people (specially those that make it solo) will make it in tho parts. First escort the ghost, then lose doe to huge amounts of enemies, then try again to protect the Vizier. MithTalk 20:39, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Daily's box

Until poke fletches us the new frontpage, I tried to make a simple solution for eveyone who wants a "dailies" box. To make sure nothing breaks I won't include it on this page, but on my userpage. -> User:Karasu <-

PvP vs PvE

Zombat Zuests are now repeatable. This balances the game. Nobody will believe me, but you should calculate yourself: Suppose we have ONE character. That person is either PvE oriented and can access most areas without having to find a guild or pug (PvE, RA, FA, JQ, HB). PvP players that are in a guild have access to HA, TA and/or GvG. Now let's calculate how much of the total reward each player can get on that one character. PvE players can get up to ( 0.4 * 7 + 4 * 0.6 ) / 7 -> 75 percent of the weekly rewards without having to find a team. PvP-focussed players have access to 8.5, 17 and rarely 26 percent of the rewards on a weekly basis if they are only allowed to do a quest once. -- Karasu (talk) 13:53, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

You use Logic and explain that it's correct. It makes perfect sense, and balances the idea a bit more.--DAVA 14:27, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

The calculation is already done for what a PvP can get: Missions (21.34%) Bounties (19.65%) Combats (58.95%). Not being in a guild in Guild Wars is something quite... rare nowaydays. And you forget to take into account that to make a Zaishen quest, you need to have access to the area in which the quest takes place. . Time is the most important factor to get into account. Since people gather in those outposts, forming a team is very easy, but it's more important to have the outpost already unlocked. Half PvP modes do not require to form a team (Challenge Missions, RA, HB), just to push a button, and in AB forming teams is pretty quick, all you have to do there is enter the outpost and as for a team, and in no time someone invites you (so far I had no trouble getting into PvP teams with any of my characters, if you had, you are doing something wrong). All you need is access to the area... and in PvP that REALLY easy, while for PvE it may take from weeks to months to get to a certain outpost required to make a mission. Since PvE requires WAY much more previous time investment to be able to complete the quest (as much time as it takes to get from character creation to the required outpost), something in the lines of: "Congratualtions! After all that hard work getting here, we are going to pay you the same or even less than we paid for the first guy you encountered!" (See the Coldstones, 35 cooper for killing a guy that is patrolling between some of the most annoying enemies in Prophecies in the last of 54 Prophecies explorables). We end up in that PvE characters can take much less of the quests in the same time:

• Buy a slot, make a PvP character... go directly make quests.
• Buy a slot, make a PvE character, unlock outposts until you can reach the objective, make quests.

Since time is cash, then we end up that PvE rewards are actually quite lousy. MithTalk 15:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, you use logic but it's flawed (don't mean that offensively, it's just true). Sure, you need to rely on teams more for the PvP quests, but they also give 2-3 times the reward of the PvP ones, and often require less work. Plus, not everyone has done everything with their PvE characters (like for example I have completed all the campaigns, but only on one char each), whereas everthing except GvG and sometime AB is always accessible to PvPers (also HB if you don't have Nightfall, but in that case you would lose out on many PvE quests too). Plus the previous time investment into PvE et.c. as mentioned above. 86.27.138.133 17:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, nothing's stopping primarily PvE players from doing the easier PvP quests (which give sizable rewards), or vice versa (some of the bounties take a matter of seconds with pain inverter, and give decent rewards). This specific update didn't really do anything to change any bias in the rewards, it just allows people to repeatedly get the rewards on their PvE characters if they like, or avoid the hassle of repeatedly rerolling a PvP character. Nobody really gets hurt by this update, it just removes a minor inconvenience (unless you don't keep a PvP slot open, in which case it removes a major inconvenience).198.37.19.137 17:45, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Update = good... don't mess with it... I only wish that I could get access to some of the quests during the week that I missed due to real life... MrPaladin talk 17:49, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

If you were out of town or something this won't help you, but I queue up easy quests to do later at my leisure. I have like a billion AB quests queued and oh look, AB quests came up again before I finished them all, QQ. Misery 17:51, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Yer during the week I nab the mish's I prefer or the outposts I still need to complete in HM... but I would assume the repeatable one is just the one on that day >< MrPaladin talk 18:04, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Well you can only repeat it on the day, but you can queue it up on a few characters to do at your leisure. Misery 18:29, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

To put it simply, ZQuests do not reward the time spend getting to places, and while PvE-only players can get way much less coins than PvP-only ones in the same time, the prices PvE ones need more are more expensive. That's what must be fixed. Everything else is fine, like pet unlock costs or festive stuff costs. MithTalk 20:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

(RI) Most people have already unlocked all outposts. If you haven't, you probably only have the game for a few days/weeks. That's not an issue. PvP isn't that obvious to get to either. AB, FA, JQ requires Factions, HB requires Nightfall, GvG requires a guild, TA requires RA wins, HA requires TA wins. Of course it's much less, but even then - "getting there" should be of no issue.

Aha - I clearly missed out AB. This is also open to PvE players. If I would include this the scales would be tipped closer to 78% of all reward zoins to be available for PvE players.

@Mith: If you read my post more closely you'd see that PvE players have access to the larger part of PvP gameplay without any trouble. PvP based players have only access to about 8.5 - 17% of the rewards. These numbers are based on the 20 - 20 - 60 scale -- Karasu (talk) 07:14, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Not at all. PvP players could always retry again and again the quest. They could do so before by deleting and creating another character, and now without doing so, since they can repeat the quest. So they still have access to much more rewards per hour most of the time. Having PvE players access to PvP is irrelevant. A PvE player in PvP counts as a PvP player for the total, since a player can't be in both PvE and PvP at the same time. Time is the main limitation to get those rewards. It's all that counts. Yesterday all you had to do is entering AB in the Kurzick side and you'll get the quest done in less than an hour 1 hour, getting 175 points, and can repeat it as much times as you want, while in the same time, you'll get much less in PvE, and may have the outposts unlocked with one character or two. The proof? 7..12 districts in AB, 1 district in the Mouth of Torment. The mage of the sands is relatively easy boss if you have pain inverter and an MM, which most people have access by now, thanks to heroes and friends and can be taken care of two with a good tank if you don't have any of these. But almost no one went there asking for a party to kill the boss, unlike with the other bosses so far. Zquests being repeatable doesn't really balance the game, just make it possible to retry the quests without having to delete characters, which is actually something good, but don't say PvE gets more rewards, when it is no true, since PvE-only players have more use for the Gold coins and still they get less if they don't PvP. MithTalk 11:59, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Didn't read all of the above wall of text due to lack of time, but I want to note that finishing AB with a 100% rate of success would still take +- 2.25 hours with little to no waiting time. I will try to calculate the time necessairy. Also - note that I put AB on the PvE side. Being able to retake the quest means that PvE characters can retry over and over without having to delete/create. Maybe with this the rewards will be at least 80% for PvE players and below 30% for PvP players (this is with the new update - being able to redo pvp quests) -- Karasu (talk) 15:20, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

PvP is anything a PvP player can do. Ab is in the PvP side regardless of you putting it in the PvE side. And I count as PvE anything only a PvE character can do. That is, there is a huge difference if you only do PvE or only do PvP. An believe me, it took less than an hour yersterday to complete AB quest for the Kurzcick side. I did quite some battles to test it, and it was quite boring, Kurzicks joining in one army bringing lots of minions and NPCs and capping all shrines while Luxons scattered all around an lost all the time. It was almost as if some Kurzciks players joined the Luxon side to make it easier for Luxons. Each battle took less than 10 minutes, and after 12 battles, I got definitely bored and left to do something else. MithTalk 15:34, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Zquests are all somewhat balanced according to difficulty. There's no sure way to win PvP; but you can't say the same for PvE, where you can bring in permasins, imbagons, discord and other crap that makes PvE a walk in the park. Honestly, since PvP is more challenging, the rewards should naturally be higher. However, I do think that PvE quests should have their rewards increased since it is a one-time affair. @OP Zombat and Zuests sound really weird.Pika Fan 10:12, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Best. Idea. EVER!

I propose we change Guild Wars to Grind Wars. It's official: you have to grind to get -everything-. 99.147.125.199 22:45, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

I was thinking QQ Wars would be more fitting, actually. Erasculio 22:56, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Grinder's Wars or We Will Make You Distract Until Guild Wars 2 Wars.--ShadowFog 00:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

I propose the idea that all you GW haters leave. If you hate the game, WTF are you here? --DAVA 07:01, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Myabe everything in GW shuld be accesible without even clikin once? Why don't ya get a button which gives and unlocks everything? If sumthin becomes too easy in GW-u whine, if u gotta put a lil effort into gettin sumthin-u whine :/ WoW is pure grinder and I don't see many people complain :/ I like the new Zaishen feature- You gotta work a bit to get the Heavy Equip Pac, You gotta work to level ur pets and so ur given a bit more to do before GW 2 sees the daylight. I still don't like the dissonance between the z coin rewards in PvE z quests compared to PvP ones but I can't get everything,huh? --Monolito 22:20, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

Agreed, we have a dumb group of QQers that should just leave. Agree on all points.--DAVA 05:27, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Zcoins are actually grind reduction because they also give gold (=less farming), reputation points (=less time maxing titles) and items (=less time trying to buy them in tows). At the very worst, they're just an additional way to get things ON TOP OF the ways that are already in the game. Since 15 slots of equipment will suffice for 99% of the playerbase, the only grind it contains is for the 5 additional slots that are totally optional. And even then, if it's too much for you, you'll be able to buy them from players in a month or so. Get a small pack from the merchant until then and you're fine. 145.94.74.23 09:03, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Two ideas

First off, I think a minor addition needs to be added to the page, stating in the Notes section that Z-combat quests are repeatable. And second is an archive for this talk page probably should be made, 1) for organization, 2) for page size (90kb effects some slower computers, making it difficult to edit), 3) to fix the odd page alignment of the Contents box. I think these 2 slight edits would help immensely.--Neithan Diniem 13:22, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

I will archive this now.--DAVA 14:33, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

С возвращением

Привет! Видел твой блог давно не работал, а теперь смотрю пашет 24\7\365 :) с возвращением, кстати не подскажешь что это у тебя за хостинг? Спасибо, надеюсь ответишь :) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:94.50.171.36 (talk).

Google translate: Hi! I saw your blog a long time not worked, and now I look plows 24 \ 7 \ 365:) with the return, by the way not podskazhesh what have you for hosting? Thank you, hope to answer this page is archieved btw, I lol'd Jonny10 21:10, 15 November 2009 (UTC)