User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Underpowered Skills/Monk/Archive 2

Divine Favor

Peace and Harmony

Seriously for an elite +1 energy regen without the ability to attack doesn't cut it. Antiarchangel 02:20, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Just add "you gain 1 energy for each spell cast while under the effects of this enchantment" or something like that. --Deathwing 02:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this skill is rubbish. I was ABing and cast Inspired Enchantment on some monk, only to find this skill sitting in my bar, and myself thinking "Whadda hells up wit this?" I really like the +1 energy when you cast a spell, which isn't TOO powerful, and good for a Monk spamming 5 energy skills. It would also have some nice synergy with Divine Boon, maybe. But I don't monk much. --J. Dublin

Monks should not have energy elites that are too strong, especially in the divine attribute line, or nothing will ever die. The skill is designed to be maintained on yourself and 2 other monk teammates. If it were overpowered, it would fuel Smiting monk teammates and your healing backline. P&H is fine how it is.--Black mischief 09:37, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

If it was fine, it would get used more often than once you cap it. I don't think I've seen a monk use this. Crappy monks don't even use this skill. --Deathwing 09:56, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Scond that Deathwing sed, Ive never seen or heard about anyone using this in pvp or pve, mainly due being overshadowed by Succor maintained by adrenaline/signet based war. Biz 11:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Newsflash: Not every single skill in this game is going to get used constantly. And I have used a couple times in the past, it in top 20 GvGs, on monk flaggers. --Black mischief 07:51, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

So you want to have people run the same skills everywhere? I prefer diversity with a wide range of viable skills. The balance is very hard to find, making skills like PnH decent would be a great help. Deathwing seems to have a great suggestion.) Saph 20:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Changing it also give back +1 energy for each cast would be the equivalent of upwards of +40 energy pts. over a 60 second cycle and make it one of the best energy elite skills in the game. I would again, encourage you to realize that if you make an energy elite in a monk attribute line (particularly divine), it will make the entire class too strong and nothing will ever die. Divine attribute is an easy spec for a monk. Sit down and do the math on all the energy elite skills, then make a proper suggestion. --Black mischief 03:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

You assume they would nonstop spam one seccond heals, I cant even to being on how faulty reasoning that is. Check out Channeling which with minimal investemnt to inspiration and decent positioning (easy for monks too) can provide way more than PnP with proposed boost. People use it and stuff still dies (oh, and it does not lock elite spot) Zweistein 11:28, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Channeling isn't an appropriate comparison because 1) only a tombs player and no practical monk anywhere else in this game is going to use a skill that requires them to stand next to their foes (near damage) in order to gain energy benefits 2) it ignores the divine spec benefit that the monk healer will gain (which boosts the effects of Deny Hexes, Divine Boon, etc.). Good monks have very high actions per minute (APM) and spam rof, goh, guardian, etc. --Black mischief 16:43, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

i've seen it used before with release enchantment flaggers with veil, aegis, storm djinn's haste, they spam PnH on the 2 monks when they're near — Skuld 16:46, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

Buff idea: rework it to: "For 30...94 seconds, target ally gains +1 energy regeneration for each 3 foes within earshot, maximum 1..3. Peace and Harmony ends if that ally casts a spell that targets a foe or deals damage to a foe." Idea is simple - it does nothing when no enemies are around, but provides scaled energy boost: nothing if encountering single enemy or two enemies, +1 regen when encountering 3-5 enemies (split or arenas), +2 regen when encountering 6-8 enemies (stadard standoff), +3 with 8+ enemies (PvE, AB) IT would also provide interesting tactical decidions: the less foes gank monk using this, the less that monk has energy at disposal. (for simplicity, Foes would not include pets, minions or spirits.) Zweistein 21:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

This is insane. Nothing will ever die. If a player needs that much energy, they don't know how to monk in the first place. Monks should have very limited energy sources so that damage can break a backline and things die. LOD is energy efficiency enough. --Black mischief 23:12, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Saying LOD is energy efficient enough is kind of a waste when look at this skill, isn't it? They are both elites, so will not be on the same skill bar. As for monks using it on each other, make it target self only? Not like this skill will use it's current role, since it doesnt have one. --Deathwing 23:23, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Explain to us why a self-targeting, energy elite adds value to the game? Isn't that just the same affect we saw for nearly a year and a half with OOB, Mantra of Recall, and Edrain monks? What benefit does this actually bring to the game of guild wars? It seems like some of you people just want to actually see a skill used, without regard to whether or not it actually benefits the game. As long as the skill shows up in obs mode, it's adding value to the game then, is that the thought process here?? Why on earth would a monk trade down in functional utility away from a skill like Restore Conditions, Shield of Deflection, ZB, etc. for an energy elite?? It would have to be a damn good reason given the energy efficiency of LOD. I'm curious to hear your response, and feel free to deeply explain why it is going to add value to the entire game construct.--Black mischief 14:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't see how an elite that never gets used could add value to the game. This skill needs to last 15 seconds to break even, and, at 13 Divine Favor on a single target, assuming this skill lasts its' entire duration (which it won't), it only provides a net gain of ~0.272 Energy per second. Glyph of Lesser Energy provides a net discount of ~0.484 Energy per second at 0 Energy Storage if you cast 2 10 Energy spells in a row. One option would be to buff the regeneration and nerf the duration and recharge so you can't keep it up on the entire backline. Another option would be adding some kind of defensive benefit, such as armor, damage reduction, regeneration or a small block chance. -- Gordon Ecker 23:28, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Addition by subtraction. Mindless, broken skills impede dynamic gameplay and obstruct player skill from being a determining factor in the outcome of matches. If that is the effect a skill will have on the game if it is good, the game is better off if that skill remains weak. -Ensign 09:12, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

if anywhere it will be used by Mo/E flaggers, just as skuld said. although those are still better with zb. - Y0_ich_halt 23:44, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

i think it'd be enough to remove any recharge and maybe add a bonus if e.g. a party member is below 50%hp. o.O - Y0_ich_halt 21:50, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Might use it if there was an energy return if removed prematurely. Perhaps something along the lines of 5 or 6 energy, not too much more or people may be COP'ing out P&H. for free energy and removal. --Zarfol 00:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

What about reducing the duration but removing the bs part. For 5...25 seconds, target ally gains +1 Energy regeneration. And thats it. 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Making the skill worse, is not helping matters. Just let it be, one of those crappy elite mending scenarios. Not all skills need to be buffed. Readem Warning: Ignore this User if at all possible. 08:45, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

• Changes: "For 0..10 seconds, you gain +1 Energy regeneration and +1 more energy regeneration for every 1 seconds peace and harmony lasts. Peace and Harmony ends if that you cast a spell that targets a foe, or you deal damage to a foe."
• Reasoning: More oomph. What keeps this balanced is that it takes a long time to be come really ub3r and it can be stripped.
• Questions:To much energy gain?

This skill is fine, it just needs alittle something for it to be more usable, maybe something like - If Peace and Harmony ends prematurely that ally gains 1...2...4 Energy. OblivionDanny 00:55, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Please stop spamming the most stupid remark i heard ( Nothing wqill ever die, 1 e surge mesmer can easily coounter this remember its an elite and would take the place of something else that is potentialy more usefull, also the +1 energy per skill cast is perfectlt fine and even then not much ppl would use this in PvP, In GvG i dont see much use for it at all except on a flagger and if flagger started using this id be glad cuz it would add another skill to the game play in GvG. Any good spike would still kill and good mesmer would still shut down this is jus another option. So stop saying nothing will die...

Divine Healing / Heaven's Delight

I think this skill and his younger brother Heaven's Delight could really use some help somehow, i was trying to think of a build earlier ,seeing how mesmers are playing as smiters now,it would have been great if this skill was in healing , that way a MoR mesmer having decent FC already could have some fun with this skill, by lowering its cast time to around 1 and the recharge to around 15,but having it in divine favor kills that concept :( i know there is a reason its there, but the way it is now i don't think it will get any use at all ever. Durga Dido 21:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

If either the recharge or (worse) the casting time were lowered, this skill could single handedly defeat degen pressure. Sure this is rather on the weak side, but any serious boost could leave it very overpowered soon. --Xeeron 11:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

The overpowered LoD can do this already. --72.211.152.118 07:18, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

it's pve. i think there's a reason why it's df and not healing. who'd use this in pvp anyway? only if you overpower it there'd be a good use for it. - Y0_ich_halt 21:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

No thats the problem with the skill, even for pve its not worth it, You wont be using this on a prot or heal monk cause there are better skills to heal with and you CAN'T use it on a secondary monk cause then it heals for like what?20 hp?I don't think it really needs that much of a boost, maybe just a little bit just to make it attracting ( no not the casting time ) but moving it where another class can use it ,might make it useable. Durga Dido 18:19, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I think Divine Healing and Heaven's Delight should heal the entire party. Lower the amount healed, of course...something like 10 + (Attribute Rank * 8). Keeping it as "In the Area" just isn't a good idea...screams Ward camping. Allowing these act like a very efficient Heal Party would also help to make other Healing builds equal to Light of Deliverance...should any of the other Healing Elites ever become good. Zuranthium 03:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm just curious, would you still want the 10/2/30 stats? I thought about having earshot range and doing something like 10/1/10, so that you can use it on demand more and it's not so easily disrupted (I'm assuming the lowered healing too). I would like to see more alternatives to LoD too, so that it isn't a required elite in every team out of arenas. skaspaakssa 15:55, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd still want the 10/2/30 stats. Monks would just need to be smart about it...run back a bit instead of within Mes range. 10/1/10 is too close to LoD. A monk's selection of their Elite should come down to playstyle (and team build of course). If you want the most spammable party-wide Healing, you go with LoD + Infuse. If you want more efficient spot healing and don't want to put all of your party-wide healing into a single Elite (because of Signet of Humility, or whatever) you go with Word of Healing and then use a combination of Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight on both of your Monks. If you want your Healing Monk to split better, give him Healing Light (the new version that I propose, of course) and then a combination of Divine Healing/Heaven's Delight on both Monks. Zuranthium 17:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Divine Intervention

On the paper, this skill is not bad, it could however use a little lower recharge to see some use. --Faena 14:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeh, DI's effect blows Spirit Bond out of the water (usually heals for more, and can catch spikes a little later), but Spirit Bond's ridiculous (in comparison) recharge forces people to use it instead. Spikes happen more often than once every 30 seconds, thus the recharge on this skill is the reason it sees no use. I'd say keep the cost/cast/heal power the same and half recharge... that way, while the recharge is still greater than PS and SB, it's fast enough to catch a good amount of spikes - and the longer recharge is the trade-off for the low energy cost (compared to PS and SB, naturally). It'd still be balanced. -Auron 16:20, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Heh, I use this to battery Deny Hexes in RA.. --Pork soldier 07:49, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Remove Infuse health from being mandatory please. 76.64.186.175 03:31, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

This skill is amazing, is not even close to under powered. Like lots of other skills it doesnt see use because it just takes too long to recharge. drop healing to a max of 100 and reduce recharge to 20-25 sec. --Lou-Saydus 21:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

The first (balanced) buff that comes to mind for me is something along the lines of Angelic Protection; 10/.25/15 "For 0..3..4 seconds, if target other ally loses more than 90..54..45% of their maximum health, all damage suffered after that amount is reduced to 0." That means that if you cast it on an ally already getting spiked and their health is only 70% of max, at 15 DF it will kick in when they hit 25%. The only problem I could see is chaining it on Guild Lords, despite how sloppy it would be to ignore the monks and go straight for GL; maybe it should be target party member, if you can make that work on a target-only skill instead of AoE. It'd at least provide an alternative to Infuse Health, and lifestealing still goes through damage mitigation. |GD Defender / contribs 19:43, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Aura of Faith

Healers boon > this. Maybe a rework? not quite sure how to improve this.--TheLordOfBlah 04:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

15e cost, 2s cast and enchant the whole party imo. - Just_m3 11:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Change values to 5/0.5/5 or something? I tried to use it several times in RA but it's pretty hard to keep it up, when your enemies swap targets all the time, making you to sluggish to react especially with the 1s cast time. --Ineluki 20:41, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

i'd really prefer whole party enchant and duration nerf. - Y0_ich_halt 20:58, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

That skill is good as it is, for other purposes you have Divine Boon, Healer's Boon and Blessed Aura. Enchanting whole party would overpower it, try using it on a tank. Elleshar 22:11, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Healer's Boon is completely superior to this in every possible way, even though both skills are elite. 76.64.59.41 04:25, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Elleshar, what exactly makes this skill good? I like the idea of a party wide buff.--TheLordOfBlah 09:06, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually one thing you have to keep in mind with this skill is how it buffs enchants like Vigorous Spirit, Healing Seed, Live Vicariously, etc. that are ignored by Healer's Boon while also buffing stuff like Heal Party/LoD/etc. that can come from someone else. I agree that the stats on it are pretty bad, but it shouldn't be nearly free to keep on every1 either. Vigorous Spirit healing for close to 30 is actually pretty insane on attackers and fights off degen on its own. I remember monking in TA for 3 attacker teams using Aura of Faith on every1, Live Vicariously bonding on them and Vigorous Spirit. Just that covered for about everything but spikes (i was gaining around 60 health per second with all of them hitting, i could fully ignore a warrior in frenzy on my back) and i could use Dwayna's Kiss to heal them for around 300+. Aura of Faith has potential and it's not 'strickly inferior to Healer's Boon', but its stats are definitely pretty bad atm, and 10/1/15 would be much better changed to something like 10/.25/5. Not sure i'd reduce it to 5E, it's worth 10E i think. Patccmoi 14:58, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

problem with this is, it might be nice used as you described, but for a team bigger than 4 members it's useless. would have to combine with blessed aura, and that would really trash your energy. - Y0_ich_halt 17:00, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

Enchanting the entire party would mean your LoD user will be able to do all the healing for the entire party themselves. --Ckal Ktak 16:09, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Then instead of 50% more healing, make Divine Favor bonus heal for twice as much? --Deathwing 16:12, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Staying at the party enchant idea: it has 15s recharge. that means once you use it the 4th time, the first one is already running out, which again means you can maintain it well on 3 targets. with Blessed Aura at 12 df it will stay on for 78 seconds, which should be enough to maintain it on 5 people. A Mo/R with serpent's quickness could further decrease the recharge to 8s, meaning you can maintain it on your whole party. but it costs a huge amount of energy, which you can definetely not maintain without at least Glyph of Lesser Energy or something comparable. Mo/R/E. - Y0_ich_halt 16:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Here goes my suggestion, 5 energy 1/2cast time 5 recharge, Elite Enchantment Spell. For 1...13...16 seconds, when you heal target ally your Divine Favor bonus is doubled. All meshed together from suggestions from the thread, while keeping it for one ally.--Atlas Oranos 11:56, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Worst elite in the game now? See Healer's Boon. Dancing Gnome 07:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

I believe in its current form, healers boon is far more superior, even if energy/recharge/cast time was decreased, Healers boon would still be superior... I think this skill could be made more interesting with its current effect being nerfed and another effect being added, Maybe something along the lines of - Elite Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, target ally gains 5...20...30% more Health when healed and Enchantments targetting that ally last 5...15...20% Longer. OblivionDanny 23:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Unyielding Aura

Remove Elite Status. A Res with Elite Status will never work. But as a non elite, you might use it in some gimmick Builds. Also, add 1 second to casting time. Oh, and remove this horrible large purple ring. You can tell that someone's enchanted with this from 2 miles away.84.136.236.177 12:37, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

A res with elite status will work. Remove the energy degen then this would be pretty powerful. 100% health and energy and only 1 more second cast than a res sig? I'll take that. Antiarchangel 14:39, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Have fun. I'd rather use an Elite to keep my Teammates alive. 84.136.236.177 15:56, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

LoL, this is an awsome elite in my opinion. You can easily keep them alive and good for quick rezes I suppose. Also, if it's in RP, use it then after the fight, kill them off and rez them normally.--§ Eloc § 16:14, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Or just use a res sig. If you need more than 5 res sigs lern2play PvE. 84.136.241.192 16:53, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

If it were 5/2/15 and unlinked I could imagine it being used by secondaries in some places in PvE where you expect to die a lot or where res sigs don't recharge as it could prevent time consuming party recoveries. However, as long as it requires Divine Favor I can't imagine anyone using it seriously - Monk primaries have way more important things to do with their elite slot, like preventing you from dying in the first place.--Mysterial 17:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

=0 Can they really strip something of its elite status? has Anet done that before? IMO Not even worth it as a non elite, all this skill is for is for Ab when you wanna have some fun lol. Thats what I use it for lol.(So many crap builds in AB I don't even need a good elite anymore.

What about removing the enchantment part and rebalancing it as an elite hard res? -- Gordon Ecker 05:33, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Healing Hands used to be elite. —The preceding awesome-sauce comment was added by Skakid9090. 06:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Healing Hands still is elite. - HeWhoIsPale 12:30, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

There was a dervish skill that wasn't elite and they made it elite. If they can do that they should be able to do the opposite. 69.137.78.47 19:58, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Anthem of Fury was elitified from not being thus. --Ckal Ktak 20:48, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

This is worse than Death Pact Signet. Dancing Gnome 11:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Give this the same buff Vengence recieved a while back, "that party member deals 15% more damage" OblivionDanny 23:48, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Increase Casting time by 1 Second, Set Recharge to 10 Seconds, remove Enchantment Status.

(reset) A 4 second rez would be ridiculous I say the recharge should be removed or reduced to 5 and the enchantment status removed.Jigoku 23:11, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Release Enchantments

This skill doesn't heal enough per enchantment. You just have to jump through too many hoops for it to be worth it. I think it should work on any profession enchantment and heal a tiny bit more per enchantment. You might see some teams run this with an Orders necro and Aegis or something. Alternatives to LoD are important to diversify backlines. --TimeToGetIntense 21:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Removing the only monk enchantments req WOULD be a big buff to it, and i don't think it needs any buff after that. It would actually become quite viable with Orders, and you could always have a midliner using some enchant on the monk before he uses it to power it up a bit more. I mean, with 3 enchants this is already better than LoD, it shouldn't have a potential THAT much better Patccmoi 13:22, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

If the Orders spammer is also using Dark Fury (which is common), that's already 2 enchants on the Monk. This would become too powerful with the suggested change. Instead, I think the skill should read: "Lose all enchantments. If an enchantment was removed in this way, each party member is healed for 10 + (Attribute Rank * 3) Health." Zuranthium 23:26, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

That seems like a good idea to me, Zuranthium. It wouldn't heal as much as LoD, but you could easily run two copies or simply make up for the difference with another elite. (like if WoH targetted self) --TimeToGetIntense 22:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Spell Breaker

The spell effect needs to change, as long as it's a unconditional spell blocker it will always be useless (outside farming). So, I propose to change it to ether: 5/1/15 For 0..7 seconds while target OTHER ally is casting a spell they can not be a target of hostile spells. (making it an elite version of spell shield) or the functionality should be 5/1/12 "The next time target ally takes damage from a spell. They are immune to that damage for 0..5 seconds."(even armor ignoring) Which would be interesting for stopping spell spikes maybe it's to narrow though? Jigoku 15:34, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, Spell Breaker is often used in Hard Mode Missions and in DoA on the tank alternating with obsidian flesh. So I won't say it's useless at all. Der moon 15:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It is actually quite fun to run this skill in RA. --Deathwing 15:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, beyond that it has very few places where it is viable. Jigoku 15:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

So...PvE is covered, and RA is covered. That leaves GvG? --Deathwing 16:00, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Who on earth runs this in RA? I never see this skill in RA, and once upon a blue moon RA monk with SB doesn't mean this skill does absolutely anything in RA. That leaves this skill to PvE, please exclude RA, you WONT see monks using this in RA, or at least you WONT see this skill on teams who have 2 consecutives. Servant of Kali 08:05, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Hard mode and Farming DoA hardly counts as PvE; and there are much better elites for RA and PvE in general then a skill that costs 15 seconds and has a 45 second recharge which protects ONE ally from casters for a little while. Jigoku 16:41, 20 August 2007 (UTC) (UTC)

GvG is not everything - hard mode is a quite big thing in PVE today. And SB is one key skill only monks can bring, so a SB monk can't be replaced by anyone else. I think this skill is rather good balanced - in PVE it is great and in PVP it has some places it is viable. Not every skill has to be used everywhere. Der moon 20:45, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It has a very strong use for Farming and Hard Moding. Changing it so that it wouldnt help in those areas would be stupid and make it even worse.--Renegade 15:24, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

So you mean, by changing it to improve the skill for everything except farming, it would actually make the skill worse? That doesn't make sense. -Auron 03:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Being run in RA is no example of a good skill, if that's the best you can do then it is indeed horrible. I've seen in Aspenwood, on bonder monks to stop people nuking/stripping the bonded Elementalist or Gatekeeper. It has it's uses but they are niche. The effect is crazy powerful is the problem. Dancing Gnome 11:30, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Holy Haste

Enchantment Spell. For 20...60...100 seconds, your Healing Prayers Skills activate 50% faster. This enchantment ends if you use a non-healing prayers skill.

Diversity impacts the meta positively. Making healing prayers skills effective (let's not mince words, they are currently 99% pure hopeless trash) is dangerous because these new effective skills finding their way on to 3-att bars might make monks more powerful overall. So this idea is the result of my thinking how can we pump healing without making monks more powerful overall? love, Aran 22:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

So what does that have to do with Holy Haste being underpowered? Antiarchangel 23:35, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Holy Haste is a skill that is designed to buff a set of skills. That set of skills is not viable. One solution would be to improve all of those skills. I would agree. But until that happens this skill, in my opinion, is underpowered. What do you think about my suggestion? Do you have any ideas about this skill, or different healing prayers skills that might, if buffed, make it viable? Your feedback is appreciated. love, Aran 21:21, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

The fact remains that skill bars devoted to Healing Prayers cannot effectively handle spikes or condition and is not safe for monks under pressure. Prot monks can kite most of the time b/c all they need to do is cast 1-3 fast enchantments on the ally and they will be safe. Healing monks have to be actively healing when ally health bar is decreasing. This puts the healing monk at greater risk for spikes, especially for melee. They cannot self protect themselves as effectively as a prot monk makes the situation even worse. An improvement would be to increase healing power of Healing Prayers spells by about 10...25...29%. --142.58.211.181 22:12, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

None of the aforementioned issues are viable. The only thing that's clearly wrong with this skill is its 10 energy cost. Having to maintain this without being able to use enchantments means you will have to spam your heals more. However, this skill counters itself and makes itself not worthwhile to use. Lower the energy cost and this will definately be more useful without being overpowering like it is above. 76.64.56.179 03:22, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

A 1/4 sec word of healing and 1/2 sec orison of healing (which can be chained forever) is not underpowered and giving up what healing breeze? so you can do this isn't much of a sacrifice so you cant take healing seed with 1 sec cast time? big deal you cna heal for 200 health almost instantly try this holy haste + word of healing + orison of healing + heal other (for bad situations) + renew life. i can usually keep an organised man team alive alone with that any other skills use on energy management altho if you use it properly you shouldn't need energy management/

Healing Prayers

Orison of Healing

I think it's sad that after all the efforts to bring Healing Prayers into the meta, the Healing Prayers Monks are using RoF as their basic heal. It's quicker and has a good, maybe better energy efficiency than Orison, even with 9-10 Protection vs 14-15 Healing Prayers. Ok, I've stated the obvious... Anyway, I think the cast time should be reduced to 3/4 sec so it wouldn't be such a liability to use this skill. Considering interrupts (especially Power Block) and just the fact that it takes more time to deliver the heal, it's a pretty poor skill, but I think that a 3/4 cast time would make a huge difference. Afterall, many of the skills Monks *do* use are 3/4 of a second (Gift of Health, Mend Condition, Dismiss Condition, Mending Touch, etc...) The skills that are used but have a 1 second cast seem to have a much stronger effect to justify the cast time. LoD and Dwayna's Kiss are good examples. --TimeToGetIntense 03:26, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I have to disagree about Orison being underpowered. It misses out in the comparison with RoF, but that is rather due to RoF being so powerful, not orison being so weak. The better comparison is the healing line, where it is still the only unconditional non-elite self- and other-heal. --Xeeron 09:16, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, Healers are using RoF, not Orison...--TimeToGetIntense 12:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

I've spent a lot of time looking at Orison vs Rof I had a lot of interesting ideas on how to fix it but non of them really panned out, it's hard because the only way to make someone stop using rof is to offer something that is equally effective, and that is very dangerous as I think rof more then any other skill is core to the whole game, the rate in which rof is used is the core to how a whole backline functions, it's how monks work there is a lot ridding on that skill. To offer equally powerful skills is very dangerous because of how core this skill is. I'm working on a skill in GW:EN that could be healing prayers rof, but it's still a hard problem to solve when it's all said and done I don't think it's a horrible thing 3+ Attribute monks are very interesting. ~Izzy @-'----

I think that the 3/4 cast time wouldn't make Orison as good as RoF, but it would make Orison a decent option for situations where RoF just isn't very good. A perfect example is vs. Conjure Warriors. Conjure comes in first, before the attack damage, so RoF gets screwed over so badly, but Orison isn't quite good enough to offer another option for this meta. --TimeToGetIntense 23:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it would be a bad thing to make a 14 spec Orison better than a 10 spec RoF. Orison seriously has no purpose right now; that is the only function it could possibly serve (replacing RoF for a bar with high Healing spec). Change it to a 1/4 second cast and change the healing amount to 15 + (Attribute Rank * 3) for the first 10 ranks, then an extra 7 points for ranks 11 through 14, and then back to 3 points per rank after rank 14. After that, change the values on RoF to 10 + (Attribute Rank * 3) for the first 10 Ranks, and then an extra 10 points per Attribute Rank up through rank 13, and then an extra 5 points per Rank after an Attribute Rank of 13. Now Orison is a little better for an LoD monk or whatever other kind of Monk that specs 14 Healing (should any other Healing Elites become viable). Part of the draw in giving your Healing Monk Orison rather than RoF also has to do with overlapping...when both Monks have RoF they are occasionally going to be casting it at the same time on the same target, ending up in one of them wasting the 5 energy. Before Glyph of Lesser Energy was nerfed, some Asian guilds were running a Healer's Boon Monk for GvG that didn't have RoF and it seemed to work. I REALLY do not think it is (or should be) a law that every Monk has to take RoF no matter what. Zuranthium 02:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

You guys really want to make monks stronger still? Hmm... Perhaps I'm wrong about this but I really think they're pretty solid already. RoF/Prot Spirit etc. are just so strong. Will this not cause you to eventually power-creep everything else to deal with them? Fro 22:00, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Monks being powerful seems to be contradicted by all the midline defense people seem to have to run to get by(and things still manage to die through aegis chain, SoD, wards, Bsurge, Defensive Anthem, WY!, SU!, etc.). That might just mean that most monks nowadays are bad, though. --Edru viransu 00:33, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

It is not our plan to make monks more powerful, but when adding new skills to any procession you are going to add versatility in skill choice that wasn't there before. Overall we are pretty happy with the current monk balance and have been doing what ever we can to avoid upsetting that. ~Izzy @-'----

It's not like I'm suggesting to make Monks stronger. I'm suggesting that some of the sub-par skills be brought in-line with the good skills and try to promote some variety in backlines. --TimeToGetIntense 00:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

yeah but you have to be careful with this, pressure on monk bars and attributes are important, and if you can replace rof with a healing skills thier attributes go up because they don't need prot, and you do effectively increase the overall power of a monks. I'm not saying those skills don't need to go up I'm just saying tweaking monks is probably the single most touchy thing in the whole game, everything is litterly balanced off of rof and it's easy to break that. ~Izzy @-'----

Monks would not change their attributes if you could replace RoF with Orison on a 14-spec heal bar. 14 Heal, 11 Divine, 9 Prot is the standard (14, 10, 10 if you give your healing monk Shield of Absorption or 14,9,9,8 if you run Soldier's Defense) and it would remain that way because you still need to put Spirit Bond or Prot Spirit on your Heal monk. If they wanted to go 14 Heal, 13 Divine that really shouldn't be a problem anyway -- it should just be a different, but equal, choice that comes down to player preference in the end. Zuranthium 16:29, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

3/4's wouldn't be too bad, I still hate the answer of making the costs lower here, as it's just a step towards making the skill feel like rof, rather then making the skill feel different and interesting, I honestly prefer something like lower recharge or remove the recharge here as it sets it aside from rof. ~Izzy @-'----

3/4 and 1/4 are very different because Mesmers can twitch interrupt 3/4 but not 1/4. 3/4 and 1 second are different because 1 second is just so much easier to twitch and ping causes the Mesmer less of a problem, also Rangers can twitch 1 second supposedly... I'm a bad Ranger though, I dunno. --TimeToGetIntense 02:15, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Rangers can twitch 3/4 too, just not from max range. 76.102.172.202 07:45, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there's anything you could do to any healing skill that would make Monks stop speccing Prot. Light of Deliverance is quite possibly the most powerful skill in the entire game, and bars featuring that skill still contain more Protection Prayers skills than Healing Prayers skills. -Ensign 05:57, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Off-topic, but is that the real Ensign? Charles Ensign? If so - wow! Where ya been? :) --Snograt 06:03, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

In response to Ensign (That's the real him btw) my suggestion for Orison makes more sense if you saw my suggestion for Shield Guardian, which Izzy shoved into the archive. User_talk:Isaiah_Cartwright/Izzy_Skill_Archive_1#Shield_Guardian —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TimeToGetIntense (talk • contribs) 08:11, 17 July 2007 (UTC).

Sorry it's hard to know what to Archive as this page is HUGE and it screams at me saying it's too big all the time. ~Izzy @-'---- 19:56, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Hehe - so balance it ;) --Snograt 20:07, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Easiest way to "Archive" this page would be to seperate it into Profession based subpages. If that is done then you could even choose a skill from those pages to put on this main page for discussion, sort of like a featured skill discussion, while placing new items on the main page for the profession (IE: Featured Discussion here, while new warrior skill discussions on a warrior subpage under this page). --Midnight08 16:28, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Prot is good, prot is very, very good. For orison to end up good enough to make monks stop speccing in prot, I imagine you would have to drink an entire case of Jack Daniels before attempting to balance it. Prot spirit is simple too good to give up. Orison has a lot of buffer room before it gets "too good." -Warskull 04:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't actually think Orison should be buffed to be on-par with RoF because it's the same situation as Barbarous Slice vs. Sever Artery. I just think it needs a shorter cast time so it doesn't flat out suck. Like I said, when everyone's running tons of small packet damage like conjure cripslash, RoF isn't even very good... but the alternative (for your LoD Monk at least) is probably worse because it's just such a terrible skill in general. So that's why I say simply put the cast time at 3/4. --TimeToGetIntense 04:30, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I think 3/4 cast would be a nice improvement to this skill. It's probably not going to replace rof any time soon, but it might become a viable replacement for Dwayna's Kiss on a LoD bar in some cases. Pluto 22:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't mind the cast time of 1 second, matching other direct heal spells. This skill just needs to heal for more. I mean, kiss is better when your target has ONE enchant or hex on them. A drop to 3/4 from 1 second isn't that much, but I would give it a try.

Also, to fro's power creep comment: Look at monks. They're one of the few classes who have not been power creeping. Every offensive class has gotten way more powerful while monks have mostly remained consistently balanced. Monks need a small power boost. Shard 22:14, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Monks don't need buffed. A few skills in healing and smiting prayers could do with a buff, but monks as a whole do not need buffed. --Deathwing 22:17, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) stress on smiting. - Y0_ich_halt 22:21, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Monks do not really need buffs, they are currently efficient enough, but many monk skills should use a buff. The current meta allows is 7 elites (ZB, LoD, SoD, SoR, Deny Hexes, RC and HB) while monks have many more. For non elite-skills it is even worse : if you have GoH, RoF, PS or SB, Veil, Dismiss Conditions ( and Deny Hexes) you have a monk bar. Monks need wider choices it is boring not to be able to change your skills because you know none will be as efficient as these one (these skills do not need a nerf, hell do not force us to use a 3 monks backline !) --Faena 15:51, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm behind Warskull on this. Needs a buff. If its buffed too much all you need to do is revert it, nothing in this game is concrete so it wouldn't hurt to try.--Atlas Oranos 13:13, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

i fail to see how this is worse the RoF this is weaker on 60 al targets but on a good tank with say 140 armor and tons of blocking etc RoF would barely heal 40 this heals a set amount on any armor

Ugh.--71.251.177.38 22:35, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Rof negates damage then heals unsigned post.--Atlas Oranos 10:48, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Supportive Spirit

This skill's energy cost and recharge time is too high in comparison with Vigorous Spirit. It also doesn't last as long as Vigorous Spirit and the healing probably isn't triggered as much. David Holtzman 18:55, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I got this one in our one of our internal sealed games, and I felt it was super weak, it's one I want to increase, the biggest thing I'm not sure with is I don't want to reduce the energy cost from 10, but I'm not sure how to make it worth the energy. ~Izzy @-'----

You could make the healing affect adjacent allies like Healing Seed. (good against Thunderclap and Signet of Judgment) :) David Holtzman 19:44, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I think the healing should affect all party members in earshot. --TimeToGetIntense 23:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

That effect just seems so random for this skill, the job of this skill should be to help someone in a spike, not to deal with pressure. Making this AOE application might be neat thou. I do like suggestions that are not just reducing the cost : ) ~Izzy @-'---- 01:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

It's 3/4th cast, seems like by the time you figure whos kd'ed they'll be back up, i would say shorten duration (2..11), lower energy, and make it 1/4th. Having a monk watching the playing field and using this to preprot right before a KD would make this skill awesome. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.10.100.245 (talk • contribs) 06:06, 17 July 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, reduce the casting time and also increase the healing power a bit.--PunkSkeleton 15:08, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

For 5...19 seconds, whenever target ally is knocked down, that ally is healed for 5...29 Health whenever he takes damage for 5 seconds after knockdown. That way the healing lasts for longer than the KD does.--Renegade 11:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I think that this skill should stay the same in cost, however it should help in some other way besides merely healing, Perhaps removing a condition and/or hex, or giving them +0..1..2 HP regen per attack while KD'd, for 10 seconds after they get up, stacking up to +10 regen or more... Or perhaps, giving +1..3..5 HP regen for 5 seconds per hit while KD'd, sort of like a monk version of "I Will Avenge You!", or perhaps something as simple as a weak, short duration Healing Hands, that requires you target a KD'd ally.--Devvu

You are forgetting this skill costs a slot too. So not only does it have to be worth 10 energy, it has to compete with the existing monk standards, RoF, Spirit Bond, PS, SoA, and Shielding Hands. There really isn't any way around it, this skill has to go down to 10e. For a skill to be worth 10e it has to compete with spirit bond and prot spirit, can you think of that this skill would need to be on that level? Furthermore this skill is useless if the target isn't knocked down. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Warskull (talk • contribs) 05:33, 25 July 2007 (UTC).

If this is to help someone during a spike (as Izzy said above), i think the cast time should be reduced to 1/4, the duration reduced to about 2...12seconds and it reduce damage by the same amount as it heals, like Reversal of Fortune. Klumpeet 14:43, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Might be interesting to make this affect nearby allies as well as the target, a la Dwayna's Sorrow. --72.211.155.160 09:04, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Supportive Spirit should be moved to Protection Prayers and turned into a 10-energy version of Shielding Hands. Decrease the casting time to 1/4, increase the recharge to 10 seconds, and prevent 5 + Attribute Rank points of damage for its duration. Zuranthium 02:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I always found this to be the "amusing sit-down" skill =). Readem Promote My Ban Here 06:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) hmm... maybe reduce cost to 5 (although izzy said he doesn't want to) so W/Mo with "I Meant to Do That!" can use it... *lol* - Y0_ich_halt 11:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Make it an area heal, so when someone is hit while KDed, everyone in the area is healed for XX amount of health. OblivionDanny 00:04, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

What about "For 5...19...23 seconds, whenever target ally takes damage while knocked down, that ally and all adjacent/nearby allies are healed for 5...29...35 Health and cannot be set on fire for 3 seconds." Just an idea. 87.189.230.197 13:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Healing Hands

It's like a shielding hands, only worse and elite. Most the time, melee can out-damage this skill anyway, or just switch to another target. I think a very slight drop to an 8 second duration and a 15 second recharge would make this skill much more playable. Pluto 11:17, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill really needs a boost, it has never see a real use on a monk bar. Maybe cutting down recharge a lot would make this one worth considering to reduce pressure, spike and to protect NPCs. --Faena 14:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

It saw some play in HA during Ranger Spike and IWAY Meta. At least in german districts lol.

I think this skill needs a total make over because it is abused by farmers and unpopular for other occasions. It is currently the staple elite of many farming wammos. But aside from wammos, this skill is rarely used. In a way this skill is like Shielding Hands but heals instead of reduce damage and is an elite. I think it should be changed into something like for the next 10 seconds if target ally does not have any other enchantment and receives over 40 damage that ally is healed x amount of health, 5/0.25/8. This way this skill cannot be abused for farming and is more usable for other purpose. In a way it is like spirit bond but then requires less damage to trigger, requires less energy, longer recharge and will not work if target has enchantments on. Regardless I feel that this skill requires a rework in order for a buff not be abused. --Shadetz X 06:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

What about making it a straightforward non-regen heal over time enchantment? -- Gordon Ecker 06:43, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Call it Spirit Light Hands. --Deathwing 06:46, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

lawl. Pluto's suggestion is gud, HH still won't be as powerful as lod with 8s/15r, but it won't suck as much. -Auron 06:54, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I feel a little out voted here, my monk has almost always used this since I was first able to cap it in Perdition Rock, albeit I do play mostly pve these days, I still use this skill and find it does help. But back before the days of having a Meta game I used to PvP quite a bit, and this was always on my skill bar. Fine yes everyone thought it weird even back then, but after using it a few times everyone basically begged me to use my weird monk build back then. This skill can be used, to great effect even, and it really does help in PvE for a monk Primary. Now everyone here might just be concerned with pvp use, it seems the thing to worry about these days for the population. Well this skill can still be used. I myself don't ever even think this useful in GvG's or HA any more, but in random arena it can be useful, so many assassin's and this skill can over heal almost every attack they do. I have seen many builds in TA that use this, be it earth ele's or Necro spikers, but the true power of this spell in pvp is shown of in AB's. That place is so full of assassin's and Minions... Minions are basically HH fuel :) well here's the other side of the argument, I have been using this skill happily for over a year and a half, while where I use it has changed a lot over the course of two years of playing, it's usefulness has not changed. But if you feel it does need to be changed, maybe up the healing amount since that would probably make it overpowered which will make everyone happy. --Fusional 10:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I think the skill is powerful enough, it just isn't frequent enough as an elite. Being 5 less energy wile only affecting one instead of surrounding units like Healing Seed essencially makes it cheaper for a weaker effect, and though it can be used on yourself instead of others, that really doesn't make the skill more effective otherwise, unless your going to be using it on yourself regularly, you may as well pay 5 more energy and save your elite to cure a group of allies, it is more of a trade off rather than an elite worthy improvement. If it could be used every 15 seconds it would be elite, foes would have to seriously consider changing targets if they don't have enough enchantment stripping. Farming exploits really shouldn't dictate gameplay.--BahamutKaiser 16:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Besides there's much faster ways to farm stuff. Antiarchangel 18:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Reduce recharge time to 15-20. 87.189.229.209

Heal Area / Karei's Healing Circle

I find that this skill doesn't heal enough for the recharge/range. A skill that would require you to literally run beside the person while maybe healing an enemy should be alot stronger. So, please increase healing power to it or reduce recharge. Energy/Casting time is fine where it's at.--§ Eloc § 16:07, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

If you use this skill on a Monk in Regular PvE or non-ball groups in PvP(wich kinda suck) you sir must change your way of monking. I only see this skill used in a good way on MM bars. Seriously if you see someone taking dammage, its not viable to just run up to them and cast heal area, there are way better heals to do that. This skill is therefor not implemented to be used on a regular monk bar.84.192.118.21 21:36, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, since it's never used, why not make it better so atleast it might be seen on ocassion instead of being a worthless piece of shit skill?--§ Eloc § 22:25, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

It sees frequent use on PvE MMs. 84.136.236.177 12:42, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

WEll that's only on MMs. What about other professions which want to use it too but aren't MMs. What I'm saying is the heal isn't as good for the recharge.--§ Eloc § 16:15, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

It can have a total heal of 1200 when speccing 12 if all 8 party members are in range...with 5 sec recharge...The heal seems to outbalance the recharge there dont you think!? --ChronicinabilitY 16:38, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

I run both of these on my warrior. Great self-heals. Along with Mending. --Deathwing 16:40, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

LoL! Please tell me you are joking!...made me laugh! --ChronicinabilitY 16:41, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Obviously he's joking. Some skills have a focus that will prevent them from ever being useful except in extremely niche situations. This is one (or two) of those skills. —ǥȓɩηşɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 17:18, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Heal Area's energy cost is justified even if you only use this to heal yourself. Lightblade 20:09, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Leave this is skill as it is. There are many skills that need more attention than this. Healing Circle has it's niche use. 84.136.241.192 17:43, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I still find this underpowered. I use it for my own self heal and it doesn't heal enough to keep you alive.--§ Eloc § 18:27, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Heal area/Healing Circle isn't a skill to keep you alive cause used on you and you alone ( not even counting that you will probably be healing whatever is damaging you it is indeed bad, but thats because its not meant to be used that way.The skill you use to keep you and only you alive is healing touch, thats is why its touch range and gives double diving. Durga Dido 18:22, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

But what if you're not a Monk Primary? Then Healing Touch is useless to you.--§ Eloc § 00:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

That's a good point Eloc, but generally there are better self heal skill's in every profession than using Heal Area, and as concerning the so called niche for this skill. I don't think any Minion Master would want this skill changed. And a Monk or even non-Monk primary can use this, but it would be to use when you have 3+ members all bunched, and probably better in the back line. Ok but I'll try to help with some alternatives to use if you need to use Healing Prayers for self heal. maybe Ethereal Light if your in the backline, Heal Party if you have that kind of energy to help the team, Mending have you not seen those Warmo's?, Orison of Healing which is like the original healing spell for monks, Vigorous Spirit if you're a melee prof, Words of Comfort maybe if your conditioned a lot. There are heaps of spells to use instead of Heal Area if you just look and think about what your situation is. But if your looking for that little bit of extra health to help ease your monks, maybe go and use Protection Prayers since the point of that is to reduce the healing characters need. I hope maybe by using some of these other skill's you might see how each monk skill has it's point within a group/environment. --Fusional 22:43, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm more concerned about PvE. Also, MM's would love it if it healed for more. As for the skills that you pointed out...they are all worse then Heal Area in Healing Power, and Heal Area isn't ver strong healingwise.--§ Eloc § 23:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Your right I guess about the MM's not minding extra health but I mean it's not like any of them complain about what it's able to do. Ok I think I'm going to say screw my earlier comment, your right they heal for less but do heal for more as far as energy is concerned. Heal Area is to use when your near 2+ people if you truly want to use it properly, so maybe if you have 2 back line char's [even in pve which is what I play mostly] who bring this. they can stand near each other + another back line char [maybe the monk or a sacking necro] they could alternate use for this, lets just say they have 7 in Healing, that is 100 health per use, but it's healing 3 players, and since it can be used every 2.5 seconds now. That is a total of 400 health per 10 seconds per character in that range. So for only 20 energy each over 2 char's your healing a total of 1,200. That isn't a small number. This skill is as useful as most monk skill's, you just have to use it right. --Fusional 02:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

But, if you're being pressured, it's best to maybe use this skill because of this high heal. But the problem is, that isn't enough to save your ass, ya know? There's been several times when the damage was just too overwhelming for me to heal. That only maybe slowed it down with 100HP heal, but 100 isn't alot if you think about it.--§ Eloc § 05:19, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

You mean you want a skill so you will never die!...Not going to happen lol! And if you're being pressured you shouldn't heal yourself you should kite and let your monks heal you. --ChronicinabilitY 05:29, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

No, you have no idea how this skill does little to save you. And since it's never seen in PvP (or atleast high end), why not make it a bit stronger so it might see the light of high end day instead of living underground and only seeing the low end darkness?--§ Eloc § 05:37, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Because it's job is not to save you. It's to heal everyone around you for a reasonable amount. And unlike many many monk skills this does get used!! (Yes by MM's etc but still used!) As for High end PvP you could make this skill heal everyone for 600 and it wouldnt see play. Basically the skill is good at doing what it's meant to, it's not good at saving you from a spike because thats not what its meant to do! You want that...try this --ChronicinabilitY 05:43, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, what about PvE?--§ Eloc § 06:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Prot works there too! =P --ChronicinabilitY 06:14, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I dunno, I don't think Spirit Bond would work very well there.--§ Eloc § 06:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Healing Light

This needs to be changed into an Elite hybrid of Word of Healing and Dismiss Condition to ever see real play. The function of Healing Light should be to create a hybrid monk who loses the raw power that LoD can provide in an 8v8 fight, but is versatile and can split well. Decrease the cast time to 3/4 and the recharge to 3, increase the healing amount to 40 + (Attribute Rank * 5), reduce the bonus energy gain by 1 point, and cause the spell to remove a condition on the target. Might be slightly overpowered, but that can be tweaked. The most powerful starting point is ideal for testing, when you consider what LoD and SoD can already provide. Zuranthium 20:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The healing power is rather weak for a single target Healing Elite. The only improvement that this skill need is more healing power or condition removal. ATM if I were to be a hybrid Healing and Prot monk I would rather take Zealous Benediction over this. --Shadetz X 13:13, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

The real problem with balancing this skill is if you make it too good, it's going to make WOH look like trash. How about heal target for XX, if your target is enchanted, you gain 1...3 energy and this skill gains double bonus from divine favor.--Zarfol 21:00, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

That would make it an almost free Heal Other.--71.251.177.38 16:57, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

WoH is already very uncommon anything outside PvE b/c you cannot self target so both Healing Light and WoH need a boost. Heal Other is not even used much anymore. Heal Other N/Mo got replaced by those N/Rt. --216.113.208.132 01:37, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

should at least match Mend Body and Soul, a nonelite in terms of cast time (and maybe in terms of heal power too). Gift of Health , Word of healing, and Heal other have 3/4 second cast. --Life Infusion «T» 03:35, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

How about making this spell exactly like healing ribbon except with 3 energy gained for each ally whom is under the effects of an enchantment and then make this 10 energy. OblivionDanny 00:18, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Works pretty well with Patient Spirit btw.

Healing Seed

I think it would be safe to buff this skill since Smite-ball died a long time ago. I suggest lowering cast time and recharge (a little bit) for starters, but it might need to be able to target self to be worth using. --TimeToGetIntense 22:26, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Self-target is what makes healing hands elite, I'd suggest some other adjustment. --Tankity Tank 23:18, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Having a reduction in cast time could make it very useful.--Atlas Oranos 17:41, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, a 1 second cast would at least make it slightly viable. The recharge is still a bit long. Also, Tankity, Healing Hands is a weak skill and shouldn't be used as any kind of standard for balancing. --TimeToGetIntense 21:46, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I would say that Healing Hands is one of the more underestimated elites, made even worse because of all the wammos using it. Not saying I would drop LoD for it, bit it isn't that horrible. --Deathwing 00:09, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

This skill is fine really, 1 second cast would be welcome though. OblivionDanny 00:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Dwayna's Sorrow

I held a trivia contest in my guild, and when I quizzed people on what Dwayna's Sorrow did, 20 out of 20 members didn't have a clue. Considering that it requires a party member to die, the benefit is exceedingly weak. It might be worth it if it offered five or six times the amount of healing, as a way to stop your team from collapsing in a pinch. Craw 19:09, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion: Whenever a party member enchanted with Dwayna's Sorrow dies, all party members gain 300 maximum health for 20 seconds. Then it's an anti-wipe tool. Now it's just trash. --72.211.152.118 07:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I've brought this sometimes with an MM in the party, but other than that it's useless. Antiarchangel 16:53, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

add "If this Enchantment lasts its full duration, all party members are healed for 5...31...40 health." 26 October 2007

Words of Comfort

I'm surprised this didn't get a buff. It is comparable to Orison of Healing with double recharge right now. With nondeadly conditions, you can remove or heal them with Heal over time. However, in comparison to 5 energy heals like Ethereal Light (25...85...100), Healing Whisper (40...88...100), or Gift of Health (15...123...150), this doesn't have enough comparative heal power unless the condition is met. Maybe it can be made to be 15...39...45 per each condition like the mechanic for Dwayna's Kiss.--Life Infusion «T» 04:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Protection Prayers

Amity

Seriously give me one use for this. Antiarchangel 02:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Please fix? =( 99.245.143.39 04:11, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

My suggestion is 10e, 30r, a slightly reduced duration and removing the premature ending. -- Ifer 08:01, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I say 10e 20r 2-10d 1c and have it have a ranged effect instead of wait for melee to come to use which really is the main problem with this skill. That and the ending on damage...it's like tease, hardly any effect, an elite and ez to get rid of. --71.184.113.36 21:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Personaly i'd change the functionalityto: target foe and all adjecent foes can not attack.84.192.118.21 06:39, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok how about leaving cast, recharge, and energy the same and changing the effect to Target foe and all a Adjacent foes cannot attack for 8...18...20 seconds. For each foe this spell ends if they take damage 1...8...10 times. Antiarchangel 15:08, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the echo Antiarchangel, as i said 1 post above yours, i'd change it to what you suggested just now... 84.192.118.21 21:31, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

• Changes: 5/.25/10 "For 0...8 seconds, nearby foes cannot attack. Foes hexed with amity are healed for 30 health for every second amity lasts."
• Reasoning:Like with shadow form this skill makes you totally immune to warrior spikes and hexes aren't really a monks bag. But, with these changes you have to think twice about saving yourself from an adrenaline spike and healing your attackers. Plus, healing the wounded even if the wounded is an enemy seems like something a monk would do. Jigoku 21:10, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, but it will become the number one elite in RA to grief with. Not that anybody cares about balancing RA. Antiarchangel 18:57, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

25 Energy, within earshot range, recharge of 15, 3 second fixed duration. That might be funny to play around with in RA as a huge range hex. At the moment it's not fun or efficient to play with anywhere. Akirai Annuvil 17:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I've always thought this should be an Enchantment. Simply having foes being unable to attack you, and then it would end if you dealt damage to a foe. Mostly because Monk Hexes = Fail. An AoE Pacifism would be a fun skill, only if it didn't end prematurely. Or if the condition was that you couldn't deal damage to them. Having a monk disable the attack of a bunch of things in HM would be very worth it when your team-mates could take them out. And then I might even use it in RA. The numbers of E, C, and R would have to be played with though. xP RitualDoll 15:16, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

Protective Bond

Skill needs to be reworked. There's no use in having useless dead-weight skills in the game, especially online game where skill balancing is done easily. I'm not exactly sure what to do with this skill, unless the skill name is changed. Maybe make it into some niche skill at the very least. Servant of Kali 13:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

this skill can be maintained with one of the mesmer mantra 's wich is viable for 2 or 3 man farm builds. I'd Say make more like spirit bond. When target loses more then 5% health target loses only 5% health, negates dammage x times. but then casting needs to lower and needs to add recharge, so then the enite skill is difrent. maybe the 5% should become 10% then in order to be like a combination between spirit bond and protective spirit. 10 e 1/4 cast 15 recharge. For 8 seconds whenever target foe loses more then 10% health for 10% of his total health.Also a possiblitie is to make ot more like the angelic protection from paragon. for 8 seconds if that ally loses more then 50% of his health while this enchantment is active, all other dammage is negated till this enchantment ends. 15 energy 1/4th cast 2 recharge. Or in short, Make this skill a spike catcher. 84.192.118.21 07:02, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

LOL...i think this skill may be the first to be in BOTH the Underpowered skills and the Overpowered skills sections at the same time! --ChronicinabilitY 23:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Because it's so bad people made a joke in overpowered section :) Servant of Kali 09:42, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

At the current state this skill uses way too much energy that it is not possible to maintain it on a group. In fact, it is difficult to even maintain it on one person let alone a whole group. 5% triggers whenever that ally lose 22-26 HP which is almost always. I suggest that this skill should not causes the caster to lose energy unless damage exceeds 12%. --Shadetz X 09:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

The energy loss can be reduced by 2 across the board, but I don't know, it can be combine with essense bond for energy restoration as well, maybe only 1 less energy cost per activation? I mean this skill effectively stops almost any significant damage from impacting the foe, and it isn't elite, perhaps the energy cost can be taken off in exchange for elite status?--BahamutKaiser 16:11, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I like this skill but it's really hard to save someone who is getting spiked because of 2 seconds cast time and I don't like to maintain enchantments thats why I prefer prot spirit instead. 3 November 2007

How about dropping the cast time down to 1/4 of a second. That way it's like a prot spirit that lasts till you cancel it or run out of energy. Antiarchangel 00:59, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

This skill really just needs changing completely, reducing the cast time to 1/4 will be very nice, but it wont make it much more useable either. OblivionDanny 00:19, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Mark of Protection

The 45s recharge and the 5s disable is just too much. However I am just submitting without knowing what to do. Balancing this spell just a tad too much would make it overpowered ... --Faena 14:14, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Ive always thought that like Spirit Bond has a maximum, this skill would be great if it could affect up to 6 attacks and spells, and have a recharge of 16 seconds. That way it would make most of a spike extremely weak, but with a large recharge tou counter it. A lower length of about 8 seconds as well maybe. Also make it disable healing prayers for a time, rather than protection prayers.--Renegade 14:37, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

10e 1/2c 10rElite Enchantment Spell. For 8 seconds, the next 5..10..12 times target ally would take damage, that ally is healed for that amount instead, maximum 6...49...60. All of your skills are disabled for 10 seconds. --Deathwing 16:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

A monk with 0 skills for 10 seconds = a bad monk.--Renegade 18:08, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Eh, numbers can be changed, the concept is what I suggested. Look at it this way though, he can still have everyone bonded, and can totally shut down a spike every 10 seconds. --Deathwing 18:13, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I suggested that concept right above you...--Renegade 10:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I was just making it neater. I'm not going to sit and argue over something stupid. --Deathwing 10:13, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Why not make it an elite spirit bond that triggers on lower damage or no damage at all? —ǥȓɩηɔɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 15:55, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

I always seen mark of protection as something that should be for healing like, in the sense that i think that mark of protection should be used in a way of how gift of health is used on prot bars ,meaning it would be the only prot skill on a healing monks bar ,in that way they dont suffer the consequense of the disabled prot skills, so i dunno, think about that when balancing, as it is now the recharge just kills it, ow btw, having all skills disabled wont help this skill that much at least i dont think so. Durga Dido 16:08, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

But look at an LoD/Infuser for example. They still use Reversal of Fortune as their main heal. Using your elite skill for protection prayers when you're healing prayers seems kind of dumb (healing prayers as a whole are underpowered as of now, actually). Also, Gift of Health isn't elite. I just don't see what kind of usage that would get. —ǥȓɩηɔɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 16:15, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Remove the "disable other prot skills" part and lower recharge to 30s or so. 76.64.59.41 04:27, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

People still wouldn't use this. 6-12 recharge, no disabling of anything, max amount and 10 energy with 1 cast time.--Renegade 15:13, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Monks need to be fast on their feet and adaptable to all sorts of situations. A 30 second cast time won't cut it. The longest skill I'll ever put on my monk besides Glyph or Aegis is something with a 15 second recharge, and even then that's pushing it. —ǥȓɩηɔɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 05:32, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

But this skill makes you near invinvible for the amount of time. So if a Sin comes in to spike you and you cast this, he won't be able to kill you and his entire chain would be wasted.--§ Eloc § 05:34, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with changing the healing on it, or the duration. It would basically be really nice as an anti-spike skill of some type or a modified Healing Seed or Shield of Absorption, or both combined into one similar effect. —ǥȓɩηşɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 06:35, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

What about, 10/ .25/ 15 "Enchantment spell. For 1...7...8 seconds, damage received by target other party member is reduced by 5 and that party member is healed for 5...13...15 each time that ally receives damage while under the effects of this Enchantment."That way, it can't be dual-cast on the guild lord since he's an ally and it can't be used for farming since it's target other party member. —ǥȓɩηşɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 06:44, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

That seems fairly weak compared to Healing Hands. -- Gordon Ecker 07:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

The numbers can obviously be adjusted but the basic principal remains the same. 15/ .25/ 15 "Enchantment Spell. For 5...9...10 seconds, damage received by target other party member is reduced by 5 and that party member is healed for 10...22...25 each time that ally receives damage while under the effects of this Enchantment." How's that? —ǥȓɩηşɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 07:17, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Scratch my suggestion. I thought about and decided that's awful. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 04:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Add better effect to see whats going on and reduce recharge time. 87.189.229.209 22:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

What about limiting the number of times it can trigger, like Spirit Bond, or a really dramatic change, like turning it into a full party Reversal of Fortune? -- Gordon Ecker 11:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

This skill really is screaming for a "really dramatic change" OblivionDanny 01:16, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Shield Guardian

This wants to be spammable but it never will be due to 10 energy cost and the minor heal that is nearby range. Right now, Shield of Deflection is similar, but it is better because it has a duration and +armor. Could be made into a defensive skill along the lines of 4-5 recharge and "For 10 seconds, target ally blocks the next attack skill used against them and the attacker is weakened for 3...8 seconds. Shield Guardian ends prematurely if target ally attacks." A change like this would make it less viable for SP sins to step and unleash chains. --Life Infusion «T» 04:20, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

You mean, make it into a target ally Shield of force? Nah, The recharge is so short on this skill simply because it isn't broken with it so short, most skills which aren't spammable for some reason (other than recharge) tend to have short recharges just to make them there when you need them, (Order of apostasy, Blessed Light and Jagged Strike Spring to mind). This spell doesn't want to be spammable, but it does want to be a 100% block rate for one attack. --Ckal Ktak 13:18, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Use this with Attuned Was Songkai. Yay. --Deathwing 22:46, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes but that would mean you need 15 points in Spawning Power for Songkai, 12 in Protection Prayers for Shield Guardian and have only 6 points left for Restoration Magic.. 87.189.219.232 12:23, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

The skill effect is about equal to RoF: Same amout healed + the (small) AoE heal + chance to block once - only works on blocks, not other spells. In truth, I might even take RoF over this if both were 5/.25/2, but with 10/.25/1, it is not going anywhere near a monk bar. --Xeeron 13:00, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Mend Ailment

Currently outclassed by Dismiss Condition. I'm proposing a recharge reduction to 3 secs. // Problem. 14:29, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Not really, if were in a condition meta it's alot more useful than Dismiss, as it heals more. Antiarchangel 23:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

It was sort of broken with boon-prot (I tried boon-prot with this in the Prophecies days). It used to be 2 recharge and a hell of a lot more usable than it is now. I think 4 would be nicer than 5...--Life Infusion «T» 03:45, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Pensive Guardian

Completely outclassed by regular old Guardian. Antiarchangel 00:08, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

haha now when i took a look at guardian i see no reason to use this at all, its the same block chanse and nearly same duration but only from enchanted foes, and thats too conditional for those 3 or so more seconds, also guardian recharges in 2 sec when this recharge in 5 sec. --Cursed Angel 13:27, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Give it 75% and it will be used by mobs. Prokiller88 02:00, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Life Attunement

I can't believe no one has mentioned this yet. I'm not sure which is worse Life Attunement or Aura of Faith but they both suck right now. 70.132.2.120 11:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

This would skill would be much better if it was just an enchantment. Jigoku 22:28, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

This skill is good for farming. Don't change it, because it's fine how it is. 72.150.24.5 08:02, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Farming should not be the standard on how skills are balanced. They made pve skills for a reason. Antiarchangel 09:14, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Vital Blessing

This may have been useful back in the days of Prophecies only, but now I don't see any use for it at all. 70.132.2.120 11:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

If you don't need that pip of energy regen (meaning you are a warrior or paragon) you can throw on a couple of superior runes and keep this up on yourself. Alternately you could throw this on a softy, especially one with DP. You just have to hope it doesn't get shattered during a spike. 69.137.78.47 11:30, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

What about changing it to "For 20 seconds, all damage against target ally is negated. Life Sheath ends after target it has negated 30...126...150 damage.", would that be overkill? -- Gordon Ecker 11:34, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh you mean Life Sheath ? --Faena 12:25, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, it was a copy / paste error. Here's what I intended to post. The problem with this skill is that, while it's up, it constantly saps your Energy, and when it comes down, the Health gain is undone. Against spikes, you're better off with something that actually prevents damage or heals, and gainst pressure, you're better off with Energy-efficient healing. It needs another benefit while it's up or a benefit when it ends. -- Gordon Ecker 03:59, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

How about "When this enchantment ends, the target is healed for 50..200 Health"?

Smiting Prayers

Reversal of Damage

Basically the same thing as Reversal of Fortune but the recharge is higher. I think you should lower the recharge.--§ Eloc § 22:38, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Considering this is a better skill than RoF, I'd say it's worth a little more. With RoF, target would still receive some damage if it's over the reduction cap, while RoD totally negates as well as hurting the enemy. Even with 0 Smiting, this is still superior to RoF.--Pyron Sy 23:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

No, RoF is better. You can't decide who takes the damage from RoD so it's pretty useless compared to the person who needs to be healed getting healed and damage being reduced.

Too low a recharge and Warriors wouldn't see play as Frenzy would destroy them, and it's pretty much the only viable IAS for Warriors. It's fine as is for a smite monk, as it's not meant to protect, but to redirect damage. --Kale Ironfist 01:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

If you look at it that way though, it has a good possibility of getting a wand attack that does 5-10 damage, redirected. Granted, RoF has the same chance of getting hit by a wand, but has a much smaller recharge. If it isn't meant to "protect" and theres a decent chance that there will be little damage to redirect, is it worth the skill slot and energy? --Deathwing 01:27, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Look at its 1/4 activation time. That should be enough to ensure that the spike hits will be redirected, and not the wand 'pressure' hits. --Kale Ironfist 02:54, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

It would only block the one spike and not even all of it. All the other people spiking are gonna hit you still.--§ Eloc § 04:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

You make it sound as if your two monk backline is going to use it. You don't. Your smite monk will use it, and what's more RoF and RoD will stack. So, still want to ask for a lower recharge? --Kale Ironfist 05:06, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think without a lower recharge I doubt any smiter-proting monk (using the new GWEN skills) will see play : their spells obviously have a too long recharge and will give them too long break times while their team will be pressured/spiked. --Faena 07:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Agreed with that. Smiter's Boon is a nice skill, but with long recharge skills targetting allies it's not actually very useful. RoD could easily be around 3-4s recharge and it wouldn't be broken. You saw Remedy/Vengeful Rt in GvG before clearly, are they such a threat at the flag stand? Are warriors instantly dying because they get life stealed? Sure, it doesn't double damage on Frenzy, but seriously it's not like taking one shot of a RoD during a spike will instantly kill your warrior (and the damage taken is still capped. In Frenzy it's capped at 120 damage, which is still less than if the Smiter directly hit you with more or less anything else while you're in Frenzy). It's like saying Price of Failure or Empathy would make warriors useless because they can't frenzy at will in them. It's just not how it works in the end, and if you're at some point where RoD would risk destroying you if you Frenzy, you're likely at far too low health to activate Frenzy either way. I don't know many warriors that turn on Frenzy when they're below 50%. Patccmoi 16:04, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Norad said something that seemed to explain why these types of skills don't work. He was saying that Clumsiness won't be a problem because LoD will just eat up the damage. That seems to make sense. The Warriors aren't a smart target to pressure, so random damage coming off smites or hexes don't actually pressure their team. It just gets sweeped up by LoD or whatever party heals are being used. --TimeToGetIntense 07:08, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

That's partly true, but it doesn't mean these skills don't work as a whole. In a split for instance, they can be very powerful (I'm sure many fought Remedy/Vengeful Rts in split before, and they can be a freaking annoyance). It's more about when they're worth using and when they aren't. But to be able to pressure through stuff like LoD, they DO need a lower recharge. I don't see for instance why RoD should be considered any more powerful than Vengeful Weap, and so why it should have a really longer recharge. And while 1 such skill in a build (like Clumsiness on its own) might not outpressure LoD, when you start stacking them it can matter. Warriors are far from bad targets to pressure IF you have someone on the team that can finish them fast (an Assassin for instance, or some kind of mini caster spike). It prevents them from overextending, which leaves your backline much safer. But either way, their strength will always be in splits where LoD can't eat up the damage they deal Patccmoi 15:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I want to add my opinion, not based on pvp or pve or anything like this. but on paper this skill is really quite weak when compared to the closest skill like it, Reversal of Fortune. But here are all the difference's between the skill's. RoD has a longer recharge [6 rather than 2] RoD's maximum is lower [not a drastic amount though] and rather than healing your team member you are hurting the other teams or a monster. So why is RoD so much weaker and never seen? I believe and judging by many others comments, it's the recharge, 6 seconds is just too long. Why should it be different to RoF, it can only negate a slightly less amount of dmg, so that just leaves the reasoning that dmg'ing a foe is better than healing an party member... why? as far as I see it, they should be purely equal. it's not like this is going to stop a spike any better than RoF would, it will simply just help pressure the other team, and a little more dmg in pvp would be good, far to many teams are just reliant on there defences. ok so I quess what I'm trying to say in all this is, I think the best way to balance this skill qould be to bring it recharge in line with RoF's. if that means this skill becomes overpowered then maybe that means that RoF is currently overpowered. --Fusional 10:28, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, in a spike, the healing RoF provides can save a life, the damage RoD Deals will get dealt to an artibary enemy member and simply be soaked up in LoD healing. Even if both skills shared their cost, cast and recharge, RoF would still be used more. RoD would simply be the cornerstone (with RoD) of Air of Enchantment/Zealot's fire Smite builds. --Ckal Ktak 11:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Ckal Ktak, what i forgot to mention was that I play PvE these days, and have for many of the last months in my 2 years of playing. From my stand point this skill would be great if the same as RoF, but I must admit, the pressure from this in Hard Mode where something with like 20 attribute points in smiting can spam it every second... That is what makes the game challenging. But yes I am glad to hear that in a PvP point this is useless. Because that is exactly right, LoD would just make whatever dmg this does ignored. --Fusional 14:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

My Thoughts: It is my humble opinion that this skill, correctly buffed, might be the crux of a new, interesting, viable (but not degenerate) and fun kind of monk that could be extremely good for the game. [something like Smiter's Boon, RoD, Judges Intervention, Balth's Pendulum, spotless soul, cure hex, veil, sig devo @ Divine 14, smite ~10, heal ~10]. That bar might suck but the point is that the monk is a real monk using smiting prayers, not a massive dps machine like the various zealot's fire spammers.

Unfortunately, the recharge is too slow for anyone to ever bring it and every other smiting "target ally" is even worse than RoD. RoD needs a buff.

But 1/4c 2r is dangerous:

1. Smiter's boon monks are healing ~100 per cast regardless of how much dmg is negated. at 1/4c 2r RoD might be 'better' than RoF... at least in sometimes.
2. Nothing stops this monk from bringing RoF also...

possible solutions:

1. 1/4c 4r
2. 1/4c 6r & "If Target ally is under the effects of a hex or condition, this spell recharges twice as fast"
3. 3/4c 2r (I hate this one, but it might be the only way, and also makes judges intervention slightly more useful/different for it's 1/4c)
4. Create synergy with healing prayers somehow, perhaps smaller recharge time for each healing prayers skill?
5. 1/4c 2r & "All your skills except smiting prayers and healing prayers are disabled for 5s" <<clumsy but I'm just making the point

I think it would be so interesting and fresh if real monks using smiting prayers might become viable. Here's hoping! love, Aran 04:00, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

This skill is fine as it is. No need for a buff, it's jut differnt to other monk skills and therefore needs to be played differently. Stop looking at it as a "RoF for smiting" because it's not. In a very different build it works very well. Any of you seen PnH's split monk? guess what he runs! Oh yes...RoD! --ChronicinabilitY 01:17, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

He only uses it because of Smiter's Boon.--Atlas Oranos 07:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Basically, this is the cornerstone for a Smite based Monk to offer reasonable support, and with smiters boon, acceptable healing, and unless the recharge is down to 3 or 4 seconds, there just isn't enough spells to utilize in order to keep units healed. This isn't like Protection or Healing where there are other spells which can be cast on the ally for additional protection and healing, RoD is basically the only defensive/healing skill you can use on them. Besides that there is smite hex and smite condition, both on significant recharges as well, and misused if your trying to spam them for boon heals.

Unless another defense or healing based effect is added to smiting prayers with a fast recharge, this is basically a neccesity. 4 seconds is reasonable.--BahamutKaiser 19:16, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

With a 3 second recharge and max damage cap brought lower, this skill would become useful, skills like this are a start for rebuilding a better smiter, once that isnt about doing direct damage, but one that punishes the foe for doing damage (or hex/condition) to your allies. I can't wait for teammates on vent calling for a pre-smite :P Anti 00:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

It might becomes more powerful than RoF on 2-3 recharge since it negates all damage whereas RoF only negates up to a certain amount and heals for that amount. The thing balancing it is the fact that it is in smiting prayers.--Life Infusion «T» 03:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Very Viable skill for Team Arenas when paired with a support healer, but for 8 man pvp this skill won't see much play. And to Anti Oath, I have screwed around with this in some guild scrimmages just for fun and I agree with you on wanting to see pre-smite in the future. It's pretty funny watching a frenzied warrior drop 520 health without knowing what hit him (160 health from this and 360 from Judge's Intervention).

Defender's Zeal

This skill is already pretty useless, despite some crazy energy management if used on an Assassin. The lack of a secondary effect makes it little more than a cover hex + energy management, and its elite status doesn't help at all, as non-elite smiting skills mostly aren't expensive enough to warrant elite energy management. The upcoming Castigation Signet will also outclass this by a lot.
My suggestions would be: 1) Expand the conditional energy gain to spell or even skill. 2) Steal energy instead of gain, like a super Spirit Shackles. 3) Cause set health loss (on target) and/or health gain (on you) a la Empathy/Insidious Parasite/an enemy-targeted Live Vicariously, when condition is met. 4) Cause extra damage whenever the target takes Holy damage, or maybe damage from a Smiting skill. Holy damage would have some ridiculous synergy with Judge's Insight and Balthazar's Aura though, popular skills on smiters, so that might be a bit too much unless it's like 3..7..9 and up it from 5/1/5; I'd say 5/2/8 or 10/1/8 would do. 5) Make it more utility by reducing the damage caused by that foe; maybe 3..7..9 on enchanted allies.

I could sit here quite a while churning out suggestions, but those are the first (and best) to come to mind. In addition, I would suggest scaling the energy gain unless you intended this for hybrid monks with low spec into smiting. |GD Defender / contribs 07:44, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Monks don't use energy management elites anymore. --TimeToGetIntense 06:58, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Which is precisely why I put it here. Needs a secondary effect if it's going to get used. |GD Defender / contribs 08:00, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you follow him. Monk elite energy management=bad. With NF, all of these awesome monk elites came out to play. Who cares about elite energy management when you have the buffed SoD, SoR, and the new ZB, DH, and LoD? —ǥȓɩηɔɧ〚₮/ḉ〛 08:37, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

How am I not following him? No one uses elite energy management. That's what this skill is, so like he said, no one uses it. I'm suggesting changes so that this skill will be changed. |GD Defender / contribs 16:06, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

"Elite Hex Spell. For 5...21...25 seconds, target foe deals 1...16...20% less damage to enchanted allies, and whenever target foe hits with an attack, you gain 2 Energy." --Deathwing 04:43, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Balthazar's Aura

It may just be me but I think that 25 energy is just a tad bit much. Done25

Can extend it to around 12 seconds. 26 x 12 is 312 armor ignoring AoE damage. It's not that bad. I'd like a cast time decrease though. --Deathwing 16:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Overall, the Zealot's Fire smite builds were always really strong and they used this skill even though it's such a bad skill individually. I think it's strong enough as it is. I think the ability to have AoE damage radiate from your melee guy 100% of the time is just a really, really strong mechanic and with Balthazar's Aura you can have short bursts of double smite damage. It doesn't take much skill to use effectively and it delivers good results. --TimeToGetIntense 20:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

its terrible because every mob runs away and messing up your aggro, at the end you need more time to kill them 29 August 2007

Guild Wars is balanced around Guild versus Guild, and in Guild versus Guild, it's used and still an acceptable skill. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ〚₮/ḉ〛 00:18, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

One of the best smiting skill in the game imo. Readem Promote My Ban Here 04:33, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Two words for people who think this skill is bad: Auspicious Incantation. --Tankity Tank 23:16, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

All abilities for a profession should be designed for reasonable use by that profession, perhaps some combinations of abilities should be restricted by cost or function, but in general, a profession should be able to operate any one ability in a reasonable fashion. This is a serious issue with overly costly and overly infrequent skills along many professions. Skills and general builds should not require the addition of particular equipment additions or even skills from other professions to operate. The cost should be reasonable to the profession they are related to. If they are outside of the realm of use for that profession, then they should be redeveloped with less power and less cost, and perhaps higher reuse, so they can at least break down the cost into smaller chunks. 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I could have swore I said that exact same thing about another skill, did someone quote me?......

Either way, I would suggest that the skill be broken down into a smaller effect with a lower cost and faster reuse. It could operate well at 10 energy, 5 second duration, lower damage and 10 or 15 second reuse. That way it can be used naturally by a monk, utlize divine favor better, benifit from Zealot more, and would have higher potency, since foes typically run away after a few seconds, dividing up the duration into smaller packets ensures that little is wasted.--BahamutKaiser 19:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

This skill is fine. Easily one of the best smite skills in the game, though that doesn't say much. Pluto 06:32, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

This should be a Dervish skill. ;p 7 November 2007

25 energy is simply too much for anyone whos not Mo/Me, recharge is too long as well. This enchantment needs a little improvement. 87.189.248.183 20:29, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Scourge Healing, Scourge Enchantment and Scourge Sacrifice

Like most smiting hexes if not all, they are underpowered because their their use is too situational. People prefer to do direct damage in PvE than using skills like these. In PvP, the only skill with some potential is Scourge Enchantment because the wide usage of prot prayers and lack of use of sacrifice skills. Still people are not going to allocate some points into Smiting for a half decent Scourge Enchantment hex that will probably be removed in seconds. I propose that the target and recipient both receive a negative effect.

Scourge Healing 10/1/10: Hex Spell. For 30 seconds, every time target foe is healed, the healer and recipient are set on fire for 1…3…4 seconds.

Scourge Enchantment: Hex Spell 10/1/10. For 30 seconds, each time target foe gains an Enchantment, the caster and recipient of that Enchantment are set on fire for 1…3…4 seconds.

• Casters of enchantments that cannot target ally will also receive burning as the target gains an enchantment.

Scourge Sacrifice 10/1/10: Hex Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, every time target foe and adjacent foes sacrifice life or use adrenaline skills, they are set on fire for 1…4…5 seconds.

Opinions anyone? I got the burning idea from Earthen Shackles. --Shadetz X 11:26, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

First of all: they all need 1s cast as rangers are too common in gvg atm to even try using those skills. Then SH would be fine. SE... well, add something to disabling the enchant, that might be a useful addo. And for Sacrifice.... ugh, I dunno... perhaps when sac is introduced to ritus as well... as for the current situation I see no way this could get useful... perhaps in a pve area where you know theres a lot of sac necros, but that's about it! I don't like the idea of another anti adren hex on a monk. --Ineluki 16:21, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

1 sec cast would make them much more powerful. The current damage functionality is superior to your burning suggestion imo as it can stack, which is usually when you want to use the skill (for example Scourge Healing on mutliple targets can SERIOUSLY hurt a LoD Monk, and it triggers twice when someone uses Mending Touch which deals 150+ damage to the poor guy that wanted to remove blind). To be spread, the recharge must remain 5s.

All i'd suggest is reduce cast time to 1s for Scourge Healing/Enchantment, and for Scourge Sacrifice make it instead : '10/1/10. For 5..20 seconds, whenever target foe casts a spell that targets a foe, he sacrifices a minimum of 5% health. Whenever that foe sacrifices health, that health sacrifice is doubled'. Meaning that all spells targetting foes (his foes, which means your allies) become 10% life sac (5% x 2) or more if it was already a life sac spell. Patccmoi 15:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

SH and SE would probably be fine with a 1sec casting time. SS is fine as is, try it on a mm. Lord Belar 17:27, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

These are devistating effects if not attented, use of either Scourge Healing or Enchantment can self kill a monk who isn't paying attention, setting up an unexpected spike redirect toward the monk trying to save a foe rather than the foe actually being attacked. With the 5 second recast time, this can be cast on several units, or repeated if removed. Used by a Mesmer, they can be applied much faster, and it really is an asset to a mesmer to be able to deal these devestating hexes faster, as they are suppose to.

Applying these during a spike can mean the monk will either slay himself, or let his ally die, even in the time it takes for them to remove the hex, the target of attack may be slain, and most often results in the scourged unit dying and the healer being compromised too.

Scourge Enchantment is even better because many profession heal or utilize enchantments themselves, Dervish and Assassins can hurt themselves trying to heal, along with the healer on them. Also Scourge Healing effects healing from any source, signet, spell, ally or self. These are among the most useful skills in the smiting line. As for Scourge Sacrifice, it is very remote, but sacrifices are risky, and doubling them will either prevent the foe from using them, or result in accidental self kill, especially with effects like BiP. Beyond that, the hex is AoE in order to compensate for its situationality, giving it even more advantage against a sacrifice intensivive team. Might seem secluded, but when you count the number of Necro and Ranger/Necro builds which operate blood spikes that involve sacrifice, and use against batteries, it can be devastating.

Like all good punishment hexes, these are somewhat situational, very powerful, and ineffective in some instances. But Healing and Enchantment cover 90% of the healing techniques in the game, there are very few regen heals that are not enchantment based, so these are plenty effective enough to counter healing, or redirect a spike.--BahamutKaiser 19:51, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The trouble with scourge healing and enchantment is that they, by definition, put the damage on someone other than who you're trying to kill... and the random pressure damage they inflict is pretty useless in the current meta of overpowered LoD. --72.211.152.118 04:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

LoD is the reason I think scourge healing is under-utilized. Same thing for scourge enchantment and aegis. These party-wide effects can instantly kill the monks of a heavily pressured team in, say, a 3-4 hex pressure team. I remember this being done by some teams to handle ether prodigy runners awhile back, which scourge healing is admittedly a bit stronger vs (it's going to heal the whole party whether it's needed or not).Pluto 06:38, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

If these hexes were in Protection Prayers / Healing Prayers they would honestly see alot of use... the smiting line really isnt worth speccing into and if you are speccing into it its for something small, and these hexes (for decent damage at least) need you to spec a good amount of points into smiting, its not going to happen unless the attribute line as a whole is fixed/buffed so more people are wanting to spec into the attribute line THEN these would see more use. OblivionDanny 01:25, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Unspec'd & Other

Light of Dwayna

This is a skill that you can easily forget that it was even on your skills list. If the casting time were reduced to like 1/4 or even 1 second, by leaving the cost at 25 I think it would be one of the few skills that can skip the difficulties of interruption. What do you think? (Terra Xin 02:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC))

No to fast casting resurrection skills. Up the 25% health or lower the cost if you want, but dont touch the casting time. --Xeeron 09:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I think this needs a huge buff. You have to completely suck if this skill is used effectively, and if you do, your entire team will be dead soon after because it only gives 25% hp and 0% energy. 25 energy is too much for such a USELESS effect. What about this: All adjecent allies are healed for 10-100 health. All dead allies are revived with 10-45% health and 5-25% energy. Even then, i doubt it will see use. btw stick that in healing prayers.--72.74.237.104 03:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I've always loved this skill..... I just use it with high expertise Rangers or Elementist who can afford it, and it offers a quick rez of a wiped out group. You may need some AoE healing in order for them to stay alive if your still being attacked, but hey, you can't have everything in one skill.--BahamutKaiser 19:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

You have no idea how Expertise works then I assume? --Deathwing 21:48, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Well.... I thought it used to effect all spells, I didn't realized they changed it.....--BahamutKaiser 03:45, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Lol --128.195.73.172 07:57, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

It never did. Atleast it hasn't since about 2 weeks after release when I started playing. --Deathwing 21:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I hated it when they reverted the fast casting res skills. It was a horrible move, and at the same time they increased the recharge of res skills, resurrection just sucks now. 122.104.228.149 13:54, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh yea...the days of the FCres/Minion Factory filled HA. Lightblade 10:05, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Make it res Allies. Then it would see play in those dual party Factions Missions where allied party wipes really suck. This wouldn't imbalance PvP at all. It would function just like a Resurrection Orb. The cast time and cost on this is ridiculous, not to mention those members come back almost completely useless so it has to be used outside of battle. Dancing Gnome 16:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

While we are on it, may i suggest changing the AoE from "In the area" to "Earshot"?. At least that way this rez could be used to recover a little faster after almost full group wipes. As it is now, "In the area" is just too small to help over other rezzes (unless your henchmen decide to stand packed together in the middle of a Meteor Shower)--Fighterdoken 20:38, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Empathic Removal

It's a nice skill but it's a little underpowered compared to other similair condition removal skills, like Divert Hexes. Maybe if it was moved to diving favour and given double divine favour bonus healing? This would give the skill a little more power, not a lot, and still retain it's current usefulness for secondary monks. 58.110.141.177 04:57, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

After the previous buff to 7 recharge, it is not that underpowered. You're removing a condition + hex from not just your target but yourself as well. --Life Infusion «T» 03:51, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

i see around 50 skills on this list, which means that 1 of 3 monk skills is underpowered, this wiki is full of people who only wants Izzy to buff their favourite skill, Izzy created this for you to tell him about skills that really fail, not skills like Word of Healing, which, does not fail. --Cursed Angel 23:49, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Misc Skill Tweaks is for skills which aren't overpowered or underpowered, but could still use a bit of adjustment. -- Gordon Ecker 04:31, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

This skill isn't really that underpowered its just not everyones 1st choice when it comes to hex removal given that it is an elite skill. It can work really well on a bonders bar where you don't want to give over two slots for hex & condition removal, allowing you to squeeze a little extra utility or healing in there. Someone did suggest, on the talk page for this skill, giving it a double divine favour healing bonus. Now that would be quite a cool minor buff without making it overpowered and then it would justify its elite status. Ajax Baby Eater 17:40, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not underpowered. It's just unfit for monk primary. Lightblade 20:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

It's a great support skill, but not really for a primary prot or heal monk (has some uses on certain smite builds). It's a very energy efficient skill if used correctly. It does what would take monks 20e to remove with non-elite skills with only 5 energy. I wouldn't mind the double divine favor bonus, but it's really not needed to make this elite viable. --Rururrur 11:06, 24 December 2007 (UTC)