User talk:Gaile Gray/Archive Support Issues/Apr - Jun 2008

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About Taiwanese users.....

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I'm a player from Taiwanese server. Please do something before you leave, Gaile! Please, we beg you! We still want to play freely in GW, so don't let them make us go! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:58.176.48.188 (talk).

As far as I can tell from the limited info available about the situation, it seems that Taiwanese law is forcing their hand. If anything, it's more about what you could do (trying to change your nation's laws) rather than what ArenaNet can/can't do. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 07:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Move to America :P--Ryudo 08:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

They could work on a way to separate the in-game economies while allowing the players in Taiwan to play with players elsewhere. One solution would be to prevent Taiwanese players from trading or dropping items in international or foreign districts and prevent foreign players from trading or dropping items in (edit: entering) Taiwanese districts, however it could take a while to code. -- Gordon Ecker 08:13, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It would have to prevent all players from dropping items in any instance which includes both Taiwanese players and non-Taiwanese players, which seems like it'd be a headache and a half. In any case, more information on the reason for the change can be found here. - Tanetris 08:26, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Errr but didnt i read somewhere that that's what Anet were doing, isolating the Taiwanese server and making it impossible for them to drop stuff in none Taiwanese only areas? Why the sudden change in direction? -- Salome 11:16, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

No change, this is a quote from the article that you linked to: "Users in Taiwan will still be able to participate in their international guilds and compete in international PvP, but as of April 1, they will no longer be able to enter international districts, trade with players outside Taiwan, or play in PvE environments with players outside Taiwan." -- (gem / talk) 11:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Hello. I just sent letters to those who wrote, and wanted to let you know, as well, that we very much understand the concerns of those playing on the Taiwanese servers, and we are looking right now at a means to take care of players in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau. I don't have any information today on how this might be achieved, but we do hope to be able to share details soon. We very much intend to address this issue in the best way possible. -- Gaile 17:15, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

This isn't about a government forcing ArenaNets hand, this is about a gaming company circumventing a practice which that government deamed illegal within it's country. Rights that government gives to it's people are being taken away by ArenaNet, which is the same if ArenaNet decided to ban the accounts of all Muslim people who accessed Guild Wars. Just because you consider it acceptable in your country to remove rights from the consumer doesn't mean you can enforce that belief elsewhere. All governments should make the banning of gold farmers illegal, it violates the rights of the consumer, some things should be able to be signed away. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but it seems Anet was backed into a corner here. A lose-lose situation. Let the Taiwanese stay, screw the economy for others. Disconnect the Taiwanese, make them unhappy, but keep the economy stable for the rest. Calor 18:51, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

So, its the Taiwanese killing the economy? 118.92.12.97 19:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

You seem to be misunderstanding your position in this. All gold, all items, all characters, everything in Guild Wars is the property of ANet. You pay for the right to use them, but they aren't yours. You're saying governments should force ANet to give up their property to people they know will exploit it for their own gain. That's called socialism, and it doesn't work. Now stop feeling so goddamn entitled. --71.229.204.25 19:32, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

"Title to the Software, and all rights with respect to the Software and Service not specifically granted under this Agreement, including without limitation all rights of reproduction, modification, distribution, display, disassembly and decompilation and all copyright, patent, trademark, trade secret and other proprietary rights and interests are reserved to NC Interactive..." "NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any Account ID or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark or trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right...." "By agreeing to the User Agreement you agree that you do not own either the Master Account or Game Account (collectively, the "Account") you use to access the service, the characters created on the Account and that NC Interactive stores on NC Interactive servers, the items stored on these servers, or any other data from which the servers and accounts are comprised..." Does this help? You have no rights to the game itself, these "rights of the consumer" do not exist. Arenanet could technically termnate every account on thier servers today, and not owe us a dime. Of course, niether Anet nor NC would ever sell a game again, so they try to avoid that. But keep in mind that they are allowed to take any action they want.Ashes Of Doom 21:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Does anyone have a link to a news article covering this law or regulation? -- Gordon Ecker 03:48, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's what was dug up on guru about it. http://www.cpc.gov.tw/index.asp?pagenumber=4333 links to the original document regarding the law. The translation provided boiled it down to two points: 1. The customers have their right to request a total refund (and they don't even need to provide any reason) within 7 days start from the buying of the game. 2. No matter what reason, the game provider cannot ban a player's account more than 7 days (for one case). If this is really the case, no wonder Anet decided to put the wall up around Taiwan.--Pyron Sy 04:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

You would all be singing a different tune if A-Net decided to shut down the servers in your countries or prevent you from acessing the rest of the game because of something you weren't involved with. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

If my country decided to pass a law that made it impossible for Anet to run their servers to their standards, I'd understand. Yes, I'd be ticked off at the situation, but I'd be arguing with the lawmakers rather than Anet. Besides, its not like Taiwan users can't play the game at all, right? Aren't the missions still available? Can't they still PvP with the rest of us?--Pyron Sy 05:05, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Some things can't be signed away. This isn't the first time a country has disallowed something a company has put in its EULA - Taiwan is protecting it's people from what they decided was an unlawful policy, just because you don't have the same values doesn't make them wrong. Arena-Net is punishing non-Taiwanese players . If my country decided to kill all the white people because they didn't like them I'd understand. I can say that cause I know it won't happen. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

Taiwan is going socialist? Great! 共产主义万岁！金币给大家！我马上搬家到台湾啦！--MORTUIЯUS 05:27, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Most other MMORPGs either don't allow characters to move between servers or restrict it, the Guild Wars situation is fairly unique, so it probably wasn't taken into consideration by the government. Anyway, I hope that ArenaNet will implement a solution allowing players in Taiwan to play together with players outside of Taiwan while protecting the in-game economy from bots and professional gold farmers abusing the 7 day ban cap. I also hope that 122.104.160.66 stops posting, his or her horribly offensive analogies aren't helping anyone. -- Gordon Ecker 06:47, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll give you one guess which server everyone who DOESN'T have a problem with this change plays on? Oh yeah that's right, it's likely NOT the Taiwan servers. I guess we can all say whatever we want and be as understanding as we like as long as we ourselves don't get hurt by the actions. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:122.104.160.66 (talk).

And if some other country such as Britain, Canada or France had a similar law that could be abused by botters and gold farming companies then that country's servers would be isolated as well and the player reaction would probably be the same. What do you think ArenaNet should do? -- Gordon Ecker 08:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the biggest problem Anet has with the law isn't the 7 day ban limit, but the 7 day mandatory refund. While it wouldn't affect players who want to keep their characters, it's a gold mine for botters. Just buy the game, farm for 6 days, transfer the gold, then demand a refund. With that in place, Anet loses tons of money. So it appears to me that the situation is not so much to lessen the impact of botters on the global GW economy (while that is still an issue) but to lessen the huge amounts of free game keys being given to botters due to this insane law. And unfortunately, there's not a lot that can be done to get around it, other than to separate the gold farmers from their potential clients, which has been done.--Pyron Sy 15:41, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Being able to seek a refund isn't 'insane' but like anything it can be abused. Damn, if I knew about all the issues Guild Wars has within seven days I probably would want my money back too. 118.92.12.97 20:19, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just throwing this out there, but couldn't they put this restriction on Taiwanese players just for the first week on a new account? I have no idea how hard it would be to implement, but it might solve problems both for ArenaNet and the Taiwanese players. Kokuou 20:39, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

It would just make Arenanet look even worse, it would be seen as doing absolutely everything it can to disrespect the laws of individual countries or any sense of fairness to its consumers in general.118.92.12.97 20:43, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I would rather that phrases like "make ArenaNet look worse" don't enter into this discussion. There are many ways in which the urgent matter could have been addressed that would have been more drastic. I feel that in this matter, ArenaNet and NC Taiwan made a good choice for the best short-term solution. But it is a short-term solution, and should not be held to high scrutiny as the final outcome because, as I have said, ArenaNet and NC Taiwan are working very hard to find a better long-term solution to this problem, one that allows the companies to respect local law, but takes care of our players, too. That truly is all there is to say on this subject at this time. -- Gaile 20:51, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Respectfully, Gaile, words or phrases you personally don't want to hear in a discussion is irrelevant. What is the old saying, "First impressions last..." this may be a short term thing in your and Arenanet's eye, but could very well stain the reputation of Arenanet in the eyes of some Taiwanese as it effectively bundles the taiwanese in the "possible gold seller - game abusers" category. My sympathy goes to any and all PvE players in Taiwanese that play the game for its 'international appeal' - ie who played the game on more than just the taiwanese server (as I've partied with some and they're top blokes/lasses) lets hope Arenanet finds a far better solution than this. 118.92.12.97 21:02, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe we all will benefit from keeping a discussion of this topic on logical, unexaggerated, fact-based grounding. Let us strive to discuss without comments that inflame a situation or hyperbolize necessary, short-term steps into some sort of conspiracy or group-wide bias. For neither allegation or assumption is at all accurate, and such comments are irresponsible, unfair, and noncontributory. -- Gaile 22:55, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Like what she said, aNet and NC Taiwan did the best thing they could as of the moment with such new laws on that territory. It's a really hard and bitter pill to take but there's nothing we can do if we just complain here and not complain to the people who needs to hear your voices. Voice it out in Taiwan where it really matters most as I know aNet and NC Taiwan did the very best they can for the time being. Be glad to know that what happened isn't permanent as it is only a temporary solution; and just like other business decisions some will not always reflect best for the company but they just have to. I'm sorry for everyone's losses. Renin 22:59, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

As I am sorry, for the distress and for the inconvenience. I believe, in the end, that a happy resolution will be arrived at. In fact, I'm quite sure of it! -- Gaile 23:01, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Nay offense Gaile, but IMHO the comments made by the IP person were quite valid and your insinuation that he wasnt being logical or grounded was really quite flippant and insulting. It is logical for one to conclude that many taiwanese will be insulted by this move and that it may affect anet's reputation there. I am not debating the ins and outs of the subject as personally I agree with anets stance on this and I have every faith in anet working out a better long term solution, instead i'm just commenting that perhaps you shouldn't be so flippant towards perfectly valid, all be it opposing, view points from your own, as you were verging on being condescending to Mr 118.92.12.97 in your response above. Regards -- Salome 00:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, I would like us to discuss the issue. My comments were written, and intended to be read, in a neutral tone. I am sorry if you, or anyone, read them otherwise. Gaile 01:46, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, Salome. Ahh, my ip changed again, gonna have to just make a profile... 203.173.194.112 06:07, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'm very excited about this news, which was just posted as a Developer Update. I hope that all Guild Wars players in Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong greet the announcement with as much joy as I do! -- Gaile 04:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Good job Arenanet :) --Lumenil 23:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

hey,gaile Account suspended again

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

My account got suspended again, and I believe Anet should do something to compensate for hurting my feelings. --Weillz 07:03, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

What reason this time? 118.92.12.97 09:20, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

And I believe you should send this to support like everyone else. Vael Victus 14:46, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Please contact support. -- Gaile 17:40, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Weillz, I hope that support was able to help you. Did you get things sorted out ok? -- Gaile 07:34, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

ok, my account has back, but they didnt conpensated me, im disappointed..this is the second time --Weillz 23:33, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad that it all sorted out well, and am sorry for your inconvenience. -- Gaile 23:51, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Inappropriate language.

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I asked this before, but i forgot to come back and check for an answer. Could you, or someone else, explain why people can have their account suspended for "inappropriate language" when 1) there's a chat filter, 2) most of the "Inappropriate language" is in hate whispers, where you can't report them, 3) The game says that parent should take responsibility for their kids. Meaning people who are over 18, or have the permission of a guardian shouldn't be offended by the "f bomb" as well as alternative words for parts of the body. I'm thinking the only reason anyone reports such things is just to get back at them for something, and it has nothing to do with the person actually being offended. Which brings us back, if they are offended, they should have the chat filter on.--99.225.57.217 03:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Also it'd be cool if you could leave the response on my talk page in case i forget, again.--Ohnoes 03:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Because it's the rules of the game and the rules are not your choice to make, but rather yours to follow if you want to continue playing the game. — ク Eloc 貢 03:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

If rules are flawed, it is the follower's duty to set out to change them. A law on whether or not women can go topless was changed in Ontario for this same reason. Girl wanted to take her top off, did, got arrested, took it to the court, proved the rule doesn't make sense, rule was changed. Sorry, but that's the only example i can think of off the top of my head--Ohnoes 03:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Ya, but why ask Gaile, she's quitting and she has probably no power to change it. — ク Eloc 貢 04:02, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

She can speak to the people who make the rules, remember that some of the suggestions people shout out in LA int1 sometimes get added to the game.--Ohnoes 04:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

First off, Arenanet is trying to create an enjoyable atmosphere for all players, young and old. The easiest way to maintain this atmosphere is to create limitations on those actions and verbal abuse that destroy this atmosphere. Second, chat filters do not necessarily cover all forms of verbal abuse since slang and words that have more than one meaning will not always be blocked. The phrase that says parents should take responsibility for their kids in no way means that the child should not be offended by other's words, but rather informs parents that they should be ready to accept any consequences, positive or negative, that are a result from game play. Finally, why is this a problem in the first place? When playing games, do you require to swear and use inappropriate language, specifically in "hate whispers," in order to create a suitable playing environment? The answer is a resounding no, and thus leads to the conclusion of this idea that why should they allow something that may upset some players and does not provide any benefits to game play other than "cultural" experience. The argument does not apply with Ontario laws since this is a contract and not a law. In playing the game, you were required to accept the terms of service, which included refraining from inappropriate language and many other things. Since you accepted the contract, you are a subject to the contract and are held responsible for violating any portion of that contract, even if you deem it "flawed." I hopes this sheds some light on your question. Respectfully, Rooble0818

Those are some good points, except that i am seeking to have the rule changed. I'm not saying verbal abuse is ok, and when i said hate whispers, i meant that as in i get them ALL THE TIME. Both of these times i've been suspended i had been pretty mellow all day, and any swearing was done either in a joking manner, or in a way that is making fun of myself or my own tactics. The chat filters gets everything, even things that aren't even swear words. "Dyke" is a kind of dam, "fag" is commonly used in Britain/Ireland as another word for cigarette. Even "G E R R O H" is blocked by the name filter(and likely the chat filter), for some odd, confusing reason. There's even Mr. Shagu, the Paragon boss. And the main part of all this is: People report inappropriate language to get back at someone, not because they want a better environment. If everyone who swore got reported every single time, GW American districts would start looking a lot like the Korean districts. They need to remove "inappropriate language" and change it to "verbal abuse" and add the ability to report people who whisper you.--99.225.57.217 18:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Old Post Best answer I ever read. Chik En 19:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, if it offends someone, turn filter on, the thing blocks EVERYTHING, i've tried. Verbal abuse is one thing, i think that should be punished, but casual swearing is common, it's everywhere, and it's certainly not offensive to anyone person whose mentality is under 50 years old. It says "Game experience may change during online play" That means there's swearing. If people want to avoid swearing, they can turn on chat filter. If it isn't enough, turn off local chat, if that isn't enough, turn off team chat. Swearing is socially acceptable, and the fact remains: People are using this to get back at people, who here has honestly reported for "inappropriate language" because they were offended by something the filter blocks?--99.225.57.217 20:00, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The chat filter is flawed, yes. It blocks some words, or parts of words, which should not (always) be blocked. It is a strange line of reasoning that leads from this to wanting the rules changed or gone- rather, it would make more sense if you would ask for the word filter to be fixed or improved somehow. Casual swearing is common, and socially acceptable? I'd hate to live where you live. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's okay. I once read an article about rape in South Africa- according to the article, 1 in 3 women there get raped at least once at some point in their life, meaning that rape would be common there. Should it be legalised just because it's common? Of course not. It may be a far-off example, but it makes the point I'm making crystal clear. Your line of reasoning is extremely crooked.

To answer your question- I have honestly reported people for inappropriate language, more than once. I turned my filter off long ago because it blocked out parts of the game content itself (such as the infamous ----ed Cleric) and because some words it filters have more than one meaning and are often blocked out of context. It also did NOT filter a number of very rude terms in several other languages, which rather defeated its purpose. Should I be forced to put up with people's bad attitudes and breach of ToS just because I want to be able to follow the flow of the game, read enemy names, and refer to certain animals? No. Gaile and others have explained ANet's stance very eloquently, I hope that one day you will understand it. You agreed to the terms, so live with them. -- Elv 21:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

"and socially acceptable? I'd hate to live where you live." Judgemental ftl. I live in the suburbs of a city about 100,000 people, in Canada, with farmer's fields and forests just a short walk away. Swearing is socially acceptable in the way that it comes out when necessary to get a point across, not every 3 words. I'm saying verbal abuse should be reportable(especially with whispers), however swearing shouldn't, unless it's horridly grotesque detailed things we don't want to hear, which won't be blocked by the filter anyways. If there's swearing in another language that you don't want to hear, that's a problem with the filter, not the rules. If you go on the internet, you're going to find swearing/offensive things, no matter what. There is swearing everywhere, done by nearly everyone, all the time. If they don't like it, turn on the filter, if you turn off the filter on a search engine you accept responsibility for finding things ranging from offensive to horribly disgusting, the same should be (to some extent) true for Guild Wars. The rule should be changed, i'm not going to go into GW cursing until it's changed or anything, but i'm not going to just sit around and let rules i disagree with keep going.--Ohnoes 22:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

The last time I swore, people ran to the window to check for flying pigs. I swear, but I swear very rarely, I swear mildly, and I apologise for my language because I do not think it is okay at all. It's a way to vent frustration, it's never necesary to really get your message across. For every rude word, there are at least ten other more polite words or ways for you to employ to get your message across. I would sincerely hate to live in an environment where people felt it necessary to swear to get a message across. It doesn't mean I wouldn't like the people who lived there, or that I would think of them as bad people; it just means that I would find their (ab)use of language horrible and would not enjoy being around them much. As for different languages and the filter... there are far too many languages in the world for any one company to design a filter that effectively blocks out all or most of the worst abusive terms in all of those languages. It's not even remotely realistic to expect ANet to develop something like that. Disappointing as it is, Support too is limited to a handful of languages. It will always be flawed. That still doesn't mean the rules should be changed.

I don't agree with your everywhere, all the time. I don't know what places on the Internet you go to, but in my decade or so online I've largely avoided the swearing masses you seem to be talking about. I'd also like to point out something crucial here: There is a difference between actively looking for certain words on the internet (I'd never type "ass" into a search engine if I wanted information about the animal- I know full well what I'd be likely to find instead) and simply browsing around familiar places. I go to places with rules I agree with, or agree with enough that I can live with them as they are. Guild Wars has rules like this and it's one of the reasons why I choose to play it. Their filter is fundamentally broken, so I don't use it, but that does not void my right to ask for the rules as they are to be upheld by my fellow players. I agreed to the rules and live by them, it's only fair that I expect others to do the same.

If you still play, then at some point you did in fact agree to uphold these rules- whether you like to admit this to yourself or not. Even Guild Wars has a very 'Real Life' tone at some points- in the end, it's just a contract that lets you play, and your breach of contract will have you face the full consequences of this. You knew, when you accepted the terms, that you could get banned for things like botting and swearing. ANet has every right to ban you, temporarily or permanently, if you cannot keep to your part of the bargain. If you really disagree with the terms, then maybe the next time the terms are updated and you're asked to accept or decline before you can continue playing, you should decline. Don't accept just so you can play and then come here to complain about the rules anyway. For all your talking of taking responsibility and accepting consequences, you seem to have some real issues acknowledging and accepting your own. -- Elv 23:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

(RI)Not all words have the same meaning, even ones with similar meanings don't quite come to the same exact meaning, otherwise we wouldn't have them. If you're REALLY ang-- angry doesn't work here, pissed off, you can't say "Why don't you buzz off?!", it just doesn't get the message across, in fact, people may think you're joking. "Swear" words are just as much a part of the English language as any other word, and for some strange reason they're deemed by (very few) people to be "bad" or "inappropriate". If you have honestly never seen swearing on a web site, you can't be using the internet much. Flash animations are full of swearing, video games, music, everything, and often in music the musician must swear to get his point across, 'cause that's the way society is. Swearing is a part of my normal vocabulary, few of my teachers in my school care if we swear, so long as it's kept under control. I keep my swearing under control, and use a very large vocabulary, aiming for the right words to get what i say across, yet because of rules set in place 100's of years ago, rules that just barely apply today(Mostly because of the older or more isolated people, no offense) I have to watch my tongue? I am not asking to sing newer rap songs here, i'm simply saying that verbal abuse should be reportable, while reporting someone for saying "ass" as in "I'm an ass"(Similar comments towards myself were the cause of my most recent suspension) is totally ridiculous. Should i be reported for saying the word "bondage", or "fetish"? Some poeple would find these highly offensive! =O! However, to much of the world, these are things some people like, things some people don't like. And no, i don't expect a perfect word filter, i support Anet in many ways, which my Unofficial Wiki page will say, however, i think this should be changed, not removed entirely, but people(majority) only report to get back at people.--Ohnoes 23:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm a linguist, you don't need to tell me about different meanings of words. I've always found the more polite words just fine for expressing myself, and just because you feel the need to resort to more aggressive language doesn't mean that you'll not be taken seriously if you tell someone to go away. Really, it makes the point just fine. I switched my filter off because I don't agree with the blocking of some words with more than one meaning. Your claim that "very few" people think swearing is bad and inappropriate is just your justification for your use of these words, not a fact, I'm sorry.

I'm actually on the Internet every day, for several hours or more. Is that "not much" by your standards? I simply choose not to go to whatever places you apparently visit. As for music- most styles of music are actually not about swearing at all. Sure, if you want to listen to 50 Cent, that's fine, but it's only a handful of very specific styles that are as explicit as you say, and I don't listen to those. (I don't even think of most of it as music, but the definition I uphold is irrelevant to this discussion.)

Again, your community may be fine and dandy where swearing is concerned, but you're making a huge mistake by thinking or even claiming that it is a perfect mirror of the rest of the world. It's not. I would have taken you seriously if you hadn't resorted to "older and more isolated". I'm 21, I live in a city, and I work in the oil and gas industry. I work with all kinds of people from all kinds of places, and so far I've yet to encounter anyone in the crowd who would think it perfectly okay or appropriate to swear. This is a multicultural crowd I'm talking about. Yes, you do have to watch your tongue. Not with "ass", because as far as I'm concerned, that's not swearing- I will gladly point anyone who tells me otherwise to my multi-volume Oxford. As far as I know, you won't get banned for using that word once in a slip. If you did, you probably spammed that word, or other words, repeatedly and/or have a history of using bad language that Support is aware of.

Most people don't report to get back at people, and this certainly won't always end up in a ban. Support is maintained by real people, and there is no such thing as an automatic ban that will result from a report. If you got banned, it means that someone looked at the logs and found what you did was offensive enough to justify banning you. If someone calls you names, and you resort to the same and find yourself banned for it, that's regrettable, but you will have allowed it to happen to yourself. The best course of action, even though you might not like it and would rather swear back, is to print screen and make a ticket. No one will be able to report you for not swearing back, and you're probably going to get the instigator banned instead. If you really want to let off steam just yell at your screen- I've never heard of that taking offense and submitting a ticket. There are plenty of people who get banned for language, which means that there are also plenty of people reporting them (a logical step after having taken offense). The Guild Wars community is bigger than just a few spiteful 14-year-olds who would resort to Reporting Revenge tactics, you know.

As for my own reporting policy... I keep local chat off most of the time. It's more efficient than the filter in some ways, and spares me a lot of unwanted spam to boot. I switch it on when I feel like using it; i.e. during festivals or when I feel like chatting and meeting new people. For the most part I stick to GC and AC nowadays. I will never report someone for a single use of the f-word in any chat. I can get over that just fine, I'm a big girl. I will report people who use it repeatedly, or who use it because they feel that they're allowed to because of our imperfect filter. These people are the people obviously looking to cause offense, not the person who used the f-word once because he died in Hard Mode in a big mob he thought he could tank. With that I've said my piece, and in any other responses I can only refer back to what I've said already. I think the rules are fine as they are. I hope that I've opened your eyes to a bigger world out there, and to different points of view. You don't have to agree with them, but you might want to consider their existence before making bold claims next time. As a last comment, because it needs to be said- thank you for the discussion, and for staying polite. It's a sensitive topic, and I rarely have the privilege of discussing it with someone who behaves well throughout. -- Elv 13:45, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Well yes, my point of view on the matter has changed, not solely from you, but from just about everyone involved in this subject, i've gone from "Remove report for inappropriate language" to "Replace with verbal abuse and make it possible to report people who whisper you". Bots often enter a district, whisper everyone in less than a second, and leave before they can be reported, another reason we should be able to report whispers. Everytime i've got a suspension i haven't been swearing excessively, maybe one "offensive" word every few sentences.

And do you really think someone won't report to get back at someone? Let's say we're in PvP. Player 1 Defeats overconfident Player 2, and doesn't make a scene about it, but they yell out "Fuck!" when they finally do die. Now, if overconfident, childish Player 2 hadn't been defeated and was able to control their temper, they'd let it slide, however, because they believe theirselves to be the best, and have just been defeated by a "scrub", they report Player 1. That is a perfect case of spite-reporting. If the people who review the reports see this they'd suspend the person, but they won't suspend them if they don't see it, clearly. It may be grounds for a suspension, but Player 2 wouldn't've reported it if they had kept their temper under control.

I don't listen to (new)rap, and i despise Curtis Jackson(50 cent) probably as much as you do, if not more. However swearing is in most of the popular music. Most Rap, Rock, Industrial, etc. Even some of the emo stuff has swearing, to say "only a handful" involves swearing is purely ignorant.

You can't possibly think that GW would be better off with "Inappropriate language" reporting and no way to report "Verbal Abuse" as well as whispers.

I'm not asking to be un-suspended, it really doesn't bother me much, i just think people shouldn't be punished for something that happens everywhere. When i said "isolated" i meant people who don't go out to raves, un-supervised parties, people who(In general) have heavy morals and rules, and think people who do drugs and have pre-marital sex are monsters.--Ohnoes 20:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Wisdom says: 1. If you can say it to your 101 (yes i have one) year old grandmother, then you can say it here. 2. Freedom of speech is guaranteed (anet is in Seatle) by the U.S. Constitution, however, Respect is something that is just as important. Respect your (note, they are YOURS) words, and you won't have to worry about making someone angry to report you. After all, THIS IS A GAME.

no thats retarded --Cursed Angel 20:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I have the freedom to choose the games I want to play. I want to play a game where people don't go around yelling obscenities or abusing others verbally or otherwise. So I choose a game where these things are not tolerated. This is my way of voting in a democratic society. ANet has the right to enforce my wishes, or more appropriately, to enforce the wishes of the majority of GW players. Nothing retarded here. -- Alaris 20:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I have been following this discussion with interest, and it seems to me that it could be considered a good topic for the Support Issues page, since it involves player input into our policies on in-game behavior. I'll move it to that page now, and of course, you're welcome to continue the conversation there. -- Gaile 17:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Player input into our policies on in-game behavior? By that, I assume that you are siding with us who want a cleaner environment. Swearing is like smoking in public, it's not fair to tell people who don't smoke that they should wear a gas mask if they don't want the negative effects of smoking. As for the filter, as perfect as it gets, people will find ways to go around it. And there's no limit to how creative some people can get to find ways to offend others. I respect that ANet takes action to protect the game from such polluters. Thank you ANet, and thank you Gaile Gray. -- Alaris 19:02, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Like alternative spellings, and leet speak. Saw a prime example of just that at the final goodbye party in Shing Jea not two minutes ago. I read an article the other day about the origins of leet speak, and the theory was that it was originally invented to avoid language filters. Sad, but probably true... I agree with Alaris on the matter detailed above. -- Elv 19:23, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

two different issues, one that alaris brought up and what the original post was. people who report other people for "language" issues are becoming a nuesense. while its all fine and dandy that you want a cleaner environment i don't believe your understanding WHY he is mad at the language bannings. from what the original poster has been saying, people are using language as a free pass to spite other players. while it wouldnt be an issue if they swore badly and repetitively, the fact that anet fires THROUGH the chat filters and ignores them when they ban is very bad. way back when, when we had to toss a support ticket through guildwars.com, we had to provide picture proof, and even then, even when we had the filters up, supports first three responses were, 1) check your chat filter 2) ignore him 3) send another ticket if it continues.

It is not a matter of people who are abusing the flaws in the system to curse, its the people using the flaws in the system to piss other people off with a free pass. 64.149.24.114 19:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I would suggest that there are two questions here:

• What is the player responsible for controlling?

A word filter is provided with three settings. This filters allows a player to see all chat, unchecked, to see it with moderate filtering, or to see it with stringent filtering. It is up to the player to find his or her level of comfort and to use the filter for its intended purpose.

• What is the developer responsible for controlling?

Because there is a filter, the developer has offered the first level of language censorship support directly to the players, allowing them to set their own preferences. The developer would get involved when someone steps across the line, for instance, circumvents the filter with creative spelling or uses words that, while harmless by themselves, or "below the radar" of the filter, become offensive, inflammatory, or profane when used in combination. For instance, the word "sex" in and of itself is not offensive. "What sex is your Mesmer?" is a perfectly harmless question. But no one needs a roadmap to see how the use of that same word, in another context, can definitely cross the line into offensiveness, or harassment, or other disallowed activities.

In an instance when someone does cross that line -- for either offensive chat or for offensive names -- we have a means to contact us built right into the game. Select the person, type /report, and hit "Verbal Abuse" for offensive language or "Inappropriate Character Name" for a unacceptable name. Keep in mind that there is a degree if subjectivity in both language and name choices, which means that it would be impossible to meet the exact standards of each individual player. The actions taken against names or language will conform to generally-accepted standards of verbiage, even if they may be a bit more conservative, or a bit more liberal, than some individuals would prefer.

And incidentally, character names are not handled by the word filter in the same way that chat is handled. Therefore, we are very appreciative of any reports of inappropriate names. Use the /report system or, if you wish, send an email to reportname@arena.net and we will deal with that matter. Note: The email address is only for offensive character or guild names, or offensive guild acronyms. Please do not send reports of any other kind to that address.

I hope this information is helpful, and welcome player input on the matter at any time! -- Gaile 20:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have to disagree with you, Gaile, but only in part- the filter does blank out words that have more than one meaning. Maybe not all of them, but some. The most well-known ones are "ass" and "damn"; the former certainly counts in the category of inoffensive unless the context makes it so, and the latter, while some may think it offensive, actually occurs in the in-game dialogue. The last time I used the filter, the first 6 letters of the word Assassin would still get blocked, and so would the first 4 of the Damned Cleric monster's name (On the normal filter, not the max one). This is one of the main reasons why I stopped using it... it's just too flawed, and it really gets in the way of harmless conversation or gameplay sometimes. Of course, this may have been fixed in the meantime, but I haven't exactly checked it recently. There are probably many more words that are ambiguous enough to be left out, but I'm not about to switch on my filter again and spam all those words to see what happens. ;)

In that light, expecting players to use the filter or just put up with whatever happens is not entirely fair, and at least the ambiguous words would deserve a review. If not for the GW filter, then at least for the one that will be implemented into GW2. Is this something that is being worked on? Has anything been fixed or improved at all since GW was originally released? -- Elv 21:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Good point, Elveh. I had forgotten about those pesky (maybe even silly) exceptions, like assassin and damned cleric. I just tested, and "Assassin" is no longer blocked, at any filter level. "Damn" and "Damned" Cleric are blocked, even at the moderate level. I agree that's rather strange, since we used the name in the game text/naming protocols themselves. Thanks for pointing those out and I'll see if we can get that changed! -- Gaile 21:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm glad Assassin at least got fixed- it really got in the way of serious game discussion. There are a number of other words that may need looking into, of course, but I trust that if the team is aware of the issue, they can think of the most obvious ones for themselves. I guess if these things get fixed any time soon, I will have no objections to switching my filter back on again. Thanks! :) -- Elv 05:38, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'll be ... darned. ;) "Damn" and "Damned" have been adjusted on the word filter to what we feel will be a more appropriate level of filtering. Thanks for pointing this out. -- Gaile 21:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

That's fantastic. Strangely enough, I have a sudden urge to log on and adjust my filter, just so I can run into a random explorable in Kryta and spam "I'm attacking Damned Cleric!". ;) -- Elv 09:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Been there, done that. *cough* Hey, I was testing! ;) -- Gaile 02:35, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

In-game purchasing without the "PlayNC" trap

→ moved from User:Gaile Gray/Website suggestions

I will assume that this is not the first time that this point has been bought up. But I do wish to suggest this again. At the moment, in order to purchase extra character slots, skill packs, MBP's or expansions on-line, a player MUST register the account with PlayNC. It is no secret that in doing so the ability to change one's Log-in name is removed from the game. After that, only the password can be changed. Prior to writing this, I have invested considerable time discussing this issue in-game with many players, 94% of whom support my thoughts. Having one's Log-in name Hijacked and locked when purchasing through the current system, eliminates the ability to change that login, therefore reducing our ability to protect ourselves from would-be hackers by 50%, with a regular password change being our only protection. These affected accounts are far easier prey for anyone with a reasonable amount of computer savy and hacking experience. I have argued the point with PlayNC and have tried to get my account unlocked. Although they eventually admitted that this could easily be done, they simply refused to do so.

In short, I have a total of 9 active accounts with all expansions enabled. The remaining 8 accounts (untouched by PlayNC) cannot and will not be upgraded with slots and MBP's etc while the current hijacking policy is in place. Players should note that there is NO warning that this will be the case prior to, during, or after the account is created and changed. Like many other casual and hard core gamers, we would like to spend the money to upgrade our accounts, but the ramification of doing so, is simply too risky. PLEASE, let's have a "Direct in-game purchasing process" that doesn't change our accounts.

It's not too late for GW1, I have a great deal of time and money invested, and like most other veteran players, will continue to play the current game as well as GW2 when it becomes available. We have serious money to spend, please let us do so. Give us an alternative to the current system. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:121.44.56.179 (talk).

This is a concern that I take very seriously. In truth, I have been pinging different folks on at least two different teams about this for a very long time. Regretably, for reasons beyond their control, the matter is taking a long time to resolve. However, I have been told that this has been moved up in the queue, and that new means to resolve it will be brought to bear. That means that we may have a resolution on this in the near future. And by "near future," I do not mean "sometime this year." :) From what I have been told, an amendment of the system to allow password and user names changes for a merged Guild Wars/PlayNC account should be in place within the next month or a few months, at most.

I am truly sorry for the length of time that it has taken to resolve this. In fact, this matter is one of the very reasons that I was excited to accept my new role as Support Liaison for ArenaNet. For the new role will allow me to serve as an advocate of player appeals, suggestions, and concerns about game and account support matters and to take those directly to the development and support teams. So I hope we will have good news about this in the very near future, and I thank you for your well-reasoned and logical concerns. -- Gaile 04:31, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Just a follow-up that I have not heard of any changes to this matter, and I sent another inquiry about it today. Hope to have info soon! -- Gaile 21:58, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Character Restore Consideration.

Ms Gray. As an advocate for player concerns you might want to consider making a case for character restore possibility. In case of un-/intentional character deletion by former friends, little siblings, spouses etc or simple a technical error it would be a BIG comfort to me and many players to be able to restore the (Main) Character. This restore would be without armor, weapons, money, minipets or items in the bags.

It would be a naked Character but with Titles, accomplishments and HoM intact. A lot of game-grieve would be solved. I agree it can be misused in some way i have not figured out. But as long as there is nothing to be gained from the restore other than retrieving a somehow deleted, beloved and hard worked on character it would just be an unhurtfull restore for the love of the game.

--Silverleaf 07:35, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Silverleaf. This is a real nice idea, and I certainly can see the value of such a thing. In fact, I have asked a few Dev Team members about the idea of restorations. Unfortunately, a restoration of this kind is not possible. The data on the achievements, for instance, would not be stored but would be removed when the character was deleted, just as the record of what armour sets that character wore would be removed. (And if you wonder why, consider how much data is already stored for an account, and how much more would need to be stored if such extensive records were maintained for deleted characters, too!)

The answer that one dev gave me was this: "This is about account security and each player is responsible for his or her account security. Allowing someone else to access the account is the biggest risk that a player can take, even if it's a best friend or family member. The best way to retain a character is to not lose a character. That means choosing a unique and complex password and never, ever sharing that information with anyone." I have to say that I don't recall any technical issue that has resulted in the deletion of a character, and naturally we would want to address such a possibility if it existed.

So again, I realize that an answer about account security isn't precisely the answer that you were hoping for in making the suggestion. However, account security is at the core of the request, and I'm afraid that the answer here is the only one that is practical and reasonable at this time. Thanks. -- Gaile 19:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I am sorry but that means i have to be glued to my game-pc and cannot make a sandwich, go to the toilet or answer the doorbell. There is no Ctrl+Alt+Del, Enter option to protect my account while answering to natures call. Killing the question with a standardized rehearsed answer cannot be what Anet & NCSoft stand for. They did impossible things to create the game. Do the possible for added account security. AAs ever though...Thank you for answering Gaile :). Some could take an example from your CC standards. --Silverleaf 17:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

What version of windows are you using? In most modern versions of windows, Ctrl+Alt+Del brings up the Windows Security dialogue box, allowing you to lock your PC. If not, what about getting a lock for your room? -- Gordon Ecker 22:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

That's good advice; thanks Gordon. I have gotten so ingrained into the system of locking down my computer at the office that I often try to do it at home. George the Cat always gets a strange expression when I do. I don't know if he's laughing at me for my slip-up, or realizing that he no longer has access to order the 100-pound bag of Friskies Cat Food. :)

And hey, Silverleaf, that's no "standardized, rehearsed answer!" I wanted to give you guys the direct quote, but it's not from some "101 responses to blow off the customer" booklet, it's honestly what I was told about security, and I think it's a pretty decent comment! Anyway, just wanted you to know that. :)

On the subject of character deletions, we are having a discussion about the subject related to prevention, rather than amendment, on my talk page if you care to join in. It's great to have input on this subject, particularly looking at suggestions that may impact Guild Wars 2.-- Gaile 20:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

About locking the workstation -- a standard home-user installation of even XP Pro does not allow for locking the workstation via "ctrl-alt-del - enter" as ctrl-alt-del just immediatly brings up the Task Manager . . . . However, you can still lock the box using WINDOWS-L. (Assuming a win-key keyboard).

Also, at least on my machine, if you WIN-L (or ctrl-alt-delete) out of Guild Wars, the system restores the game to full screen immediatly, so there's no futzing around to switch back in, just a possible res swap. Now if only I could get VirtuaWin to do that (since I always run GW in a certain desktop, my browsers in another, etc.).

And . . . would keeping a deleted char in the game for another day or two really be that big of a data drain? (Assuming that it would not allow for keeping more deleted records than the user has character slots?) --Star Weaver 04:17, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

PlayNC: Your Suggestions?

As you know, support for Guild Wars comes for most players through the PlayNC system. Have you had experience in using that system? Or would you be willing to take a look and share your thoughts? You see, a fellow ArenaNet Team member asked this week about the possibility of making a few changes to PlayNC to help players using the system in a non-native language, for example, a Polish- or Chinese-speaking player using the system in English. And that made me think that it would be really interesting to hear from a variety of players about how the system works for them, not just as far as language support goes but in a more general sense, too.

Now, I know that the PlayNC system supports all NCsoft games, and making changes isn't something that is done lightly or easily. On the other hand, what if we could brainstorm a few great suggestions here that the PlayNC Team could consider in the future when they are assessing potential improvements to the system? I think that's a terrific goal! With that in mind, I'd like to invite you to share your thoughts. Is there phrasing that could be clearer? Is there functionality that could be friendlier? Have you noticed a particular part of submitting a report that could use some smoothing? ArenaNet and NCsoft both value input from players and are always looking for ways to improve. So I look forward to reading your ideas, and I will relay them to the team. -- Gaile 02:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Earlier there were a lot of things that made the support area very unfriendly for users, causing multiple people who I met in game to not report bugs/misbehavior/etc. It eems like the system has been improved, and I'll have to (later) see what it is like today, but ther's atleast one problem left that caused a lot of misunderstandings. Filing a support tcket through the system is called "Ask a question", which is very misleading when someone wants to report a game bug or do something else that isn't actually asking a question. Some rewording would be necessary, or maby you could split the system to have Q&A and reports separately. -- (gem / talk) 06:35, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

User friendliness could definitely use improvement, especially where password support is concerned. I am still really disappointed with the treatment I got when I needed help changing my password through PlayNC, because as an honest player and a paying customer it's immensely offending to be made to feel as if you're a criminal. The response I got and the willingness to actually help me out was virtually zero until I posted here with my complaint, and I don't think I should have to complain here or anywhere before I get the help I need.

For one thing the list of things needed to get the help you want should be revised. I remember being asked for a "unique account ID", which was supposedly emailed to me 3 years ago. Well, I did another dig through my (massive) inbox, and I actually found the activation email. It turns out I did save it after all. It also turns out that it does not contain this account ID. It's possible that this was introduced after I joined GW, but it's pretty uninformed of PlayNC to ask me for things which they might have known I never received. I really did my best to give them everything they wanted- all their nit-picky little things, but what put me off most was the "we're not helping you until you also send us scans of all those keys you've just listed". After 3 years it's a small miracle anyone even still has those slips of paper, and I never saw the point of having to send those as well as simply listing the keys they contain. It made me feel like they thought I was a liar, that I was some kind of criminal who needed to prove her innocence. After having provided Support with everything I could in full detail, that was immensely upsetting.

You interfered in this case yourself, Gaile, so for further details about what happened I can simply refer back to the post I made here at the time. I'm simply highlighting the main concerns now- unfriendliness, no apparent wish to actually assist, and apparently being unaware of account activation processes.

The one time I wrote an exploit report (about the Mallyx exploit) didn't really improve my opinion either. I had never fought Mallyx at the time, but the exploit didn't seem the way to go for a first time either, and so I reported the bug as soon as I heard of it. I knew a few friends had been taken to the secret outpost, so they confirmed to me that the whole thing was real. As far as I'm aware none of them actually fought Mallyx that way, and none of them were banned. Even so, when I wrote my report and asked what might happen, I got a reply telling me that exploits were bad (duh) and that I shouldn't make use of them because I was risking my account. Duh? I took the time to report it out of concern for the game. for my friends, and because I know that exploits are a big bad evil zombie monster. It seemed strange to me that I of all people was being given the lecture on it, and it was another moment where I was being made to feel like a criminal.

I'm also concerned about the way bug reports are dealt with. A friend and I ran into a really strange bug a while ago that occurred after I crashed and reloaded, and I took the time to make screenshots and write a detailed report. I got the standard general email, then another reply saying "we don't know if this is a known bug, your report will be forwarded". The ticket was then closed. I would at least have liked a third reply, if only to tell me whether or not it was a known bug and whether or not it was even possible to fix it. I never got that reply, though, and as a result I keep my fingers crossed at every 007 I encounter, because I don't want to run into that bug again. It really sucks that tickets tend to be closed after 72 hours (excepting the case below) unless you reply. Personally I feel it's a waste of time (mine and Support's) to send an "any news?" message every 3 days, you see, but apparently that's what's needed to actually see results.

There was also a report I made after the territory change button was removed, following open travel between districts. There is no way to set a default for yourself, and as a result I still get thrown into American districts after every log-in, even though I've long since gone back to playing on the European servers. This too I've mentioned before, and I took the time and effort to write my ticket as clear as possible. It was forwarded again, but after that it took two weeks before I got another proper reply to it. It was a known issue, and they were "working on it". Ticket closed. It's been months now, and I haven't seen a fix nor do I even know if it's still being worked on. It's hardly motivating for me to bother with writing a ticket at all these days. Considering my history with Support, I think it should be understandable that I really don't feel it's going to make a difference anymore. Is it any wonder that I'd rather post here and ask you, instead of going to Support? -- Elv 10:29, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Skimming through PlayNC support content that I would describe as "FAQs" I'm baffled by pages like this one that throws line after line of seemingly random notes at the viewer. I would be looking for an Alphabetical ordering system on a page like that. A few entries might then also benefit from losing prefix content like "Using the..." from "Using the Guild Wars Diagnostic Utility. eg. "Guild Wars Diagnostic Utility Usage Guide," or something like that. I also see "System Requirements for Guild Wars" 'prominently' displayed right at the bottom of the list... ;) Yikes! I can't say that I know where else those notes are published, but I do vaguely recall having a look around for some at some point last year and came to the conclusion that the search could have been easier. --WarBlade 13:14, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just wondering, because it's been a while... has this been looked into, Gaile? Are they working on improvements? -- Elv 08:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Hi, sorry, I missed the question there! Yes, they are looking at a pretty significant overhaul of the report system. I'm very pleased that we'll be seeing changes, even though I believe they will not roll out until the fall. -- Gaile 06:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) We have a meeting next week on this subject, so this is a great time to share your thoughts on making support more approachable and more helpful to the players! -- Gaile 03:12, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

100k Trades Leading to Auto-bans

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hello Gaile, it was suggested I inform you of this problem as well. As of right now, I have still not received an update on my support ticket.

I have a problem that I hope you can help me with. Several months ago, there was a problem that popped up where people would trade 100k between people with nothing else in their trade windows and it would trigger an auto-ban. I gather this was to prevent gold sellers/buyers. The problem seemed to have died down, people got back to trading large sums of money to each other without a problem, and I figured it was safe to do so again. Keep in mind, I have never been banned for this or any other practice in my time on Guild Wars. Fast forward to April 30th. Many donations were given by many members for both our guild giveaway and for Cinco de Mayo, which is being hosted by LaZy Nation for the Guild Wars community. I was transferring items back and forth between my account and my Guild Manager's main and second account to sort the items. Then I transferred 100k that had been donated, from my storage, to my account, then to his. There was nothing else in the trade window as far as I recall. Next thing I know, I go to log in to my account Thursday afternoon and my account is said to be terminated, permanently banned, for participating in the buying/selling of gold/items for real world money. I also found out that my Guild Manager's second account was put on a temporary ban, 72 hours, for the same thing.

So I'm curious. First, I committed no crime by trading items back and forth, and right now, some of the items that our guild donated for the Cinco de Mayo event are being held in limbo because of a ban for something I never did.

Second, my GM has all the items for our guild giveaway trapped on his second account, which the ban will apparently wear off. But he committed no breach against the rules either.

Third, why has this never been fixed? If we cannot trade 100k without being banned, why does it allow a 100k trade in the trade window? Why is there no warning so that players who are playing the game legitimately will not lose accounts they have worked long and #######?

I think it is not too much to ask that the bans be lifted from both our accounts. I also don't think it's too much to ask that someone look into this whole guilty until proven innocent aspect of trading gold.

Thank you very much for your time. My reference number is 080501-001596. My GM's reference number is 080501-001184. Azhure Sun Soar 18:55, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I would just like to update this by saying both of our accounts' bans have been lifted. I would like to extend my thanks for the swiftness on this issue. Azhure Sun Soar 19:11, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I can't thank support and everyone else enough for your help and timely fixing of our account bans/ temp bans. Thank you for your time, (Azhure Sun Soar's GM) --Ill Armageddon Ill 19:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi Gaile. This happend also to an alliance member of mine, they had a 72 hour ban, and all the money they had on that account was confiscated. Now the ban they can deal with, but the loss of the money is the stinger. Especially when transfers of money between accounts is a routine part of Guild wars life for people. As an organiser of public events, the last thing we want is for peoples donations to be confiscated and the storage accounts banned because peoples of generosity. The Alliance member has opened a ticket and we have told him to email you with his queries, but since people cannot create money on the live server I don't see how he can ever get the money that was wrongfully taken back again. Please could you investigate this and either let people know of a change of policy, or correct the procedures to ensure this does'nt happen to more people. Shan 20:14, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

That sucks. — ク Eloc 貢 22:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, there, Azhure and Armageddon . I'm really glad that we got that issue sorted out that was connected to the guild exchanges. Thanks for letting me know that, and thanks for submitting support tickets right away. You'd be surprised how much we can do, and how quickly we can usually do it, once you get in touch!

Secondly, you're right, Eloc: We cannot spawn gold. I guess the best way to say this is "We can't make nothing from nothing." (Yikes, such awful grammar! :) ) If someone gets scammed, or makes an error in trading, or in some other ways ends up losing gold, we can't reverse that. We can't put back what we didn't take out. But if gold was removed in error by a Support Team member, we may be able to restore it. This process isn't possible with armor or weapons or miniatures or any other in-game items. However, if upon investigation we discover that we made a gold-buyer block in error, and if we establish that we removed gold from the account when the block was made, we may be able to rectify the gold removal when the account block is corrected. However, first it takes a support ticket (which your alliance member sent, and thank him or her for me for doing that), second it takes careful research to establish all the facts, third, it takes very clear data with no question marks or maybes, and forth, it takes a bit of extra time to accomplish all that.

I hope this is helpful information, and of course, if anyone has questions, please let me know. -- Gaile 07:59, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh Gail, is there something you can't do =) Biz 08:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Ideally these bans shouldn't be happening. Wouldn't it make a great deal more sense to check chatlogs before dishing out bans for random inter-guild or inter-alliance donations, or item/money transfers? 80.193.1.106 01:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but you'd then be spending so much time looking at logs manually, that the gold sellers would never get caught. -- Alaris 02:53, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand the question, 80.193.1.106. However, I should tell you that RMTs are very quick, very efficient, and pretty darn adaptive, too. We user a very careful list of parameters before we make any account block or ban. You can assure yourself of that by looking at how few players protest or appeal, when we are blocking well over 1,000 a week. So having used very careful monitoring devices that take into account a number of parameters -- probably two dozen or more -- we reduce the chances of a false positive in the blocks while removing a lot of RMTs. Now, it's true that we cannot totally eliminate false positives, but I don't know of any widespread system that does, even while I know we all wish that we could. But by taking fact action, we're stopping the RMTs in their tracks, quickly, expiditiously, and well.

If we then offer a quick, careful, and intensive review for any of the few player who may be caught in a false positive -- while having quickly removed hundreds in a day who are guilty of wrongdoing -- we're going a long ways towards eliminating the gold selling, the botting, the advertising spamming, and the other damaging actions that take place within the game. -- Gaile 05:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering what is the limit number of money one may trade you without giving something back? Because I'm a runner, and so people give me money without expecting any item back.. so far I haven't got any problems, but just to be sure about it.. Dutch Sunshine 06:57, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

While I understand fully what Arenanet are trying to achieve here, as a regular event organiser I find this whole issue quite unsettling. I work long and hard to farm gold during the year for the sole purpose of funding my personal addiction to 'giving things away' via events and boosting community spirits. This is how I choose to play the game, it is what entertains me most, and it is surely my business to do so. I have given away over 2 million in gold and items to players over the past 2 years from events I have organised and hosted, and I have expected/received nothing in return. I simply enjoy giving things to people, and getting people together for a bit of fun is a perfect excuse to do so.

If Arenanet have an auto-ban system in place that could interfere with myself, and other members who assist me in a casual committee for player/guild community events, from doing what we like doing and giving things away...then there will be no reason for any of us to continue to play the game. For this reason, I think it is only fair to ask Arenanet to help us understand what kinds of trades we should steer away from to avoid the 'dreaded auto ban'. For example, in an upcoming faction competition, planned to run in the next few weeks, the Bunny Crew plan to raise and give away 500k (being 250k each to 2 winning guilds). It is taking me hours to organise the event and plan everything carefully...it would upset me to find my account banned after simply delivering the prize money.

Can you please advise me what effect the auto bans will have on event hosters? I would appreciate some guidance before I find myself in trouble for being nothing but generous. --Bunny - Angel talk 16:46, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you can appreciate that it would be extremely counterproductive to list the parameters that we use to block RMTs. Saying, "If you make a trade in this way, you can avoid the RMT watch" would be rather like a store pointing out all their security cameras and then saying, "But there's this spot out back where if you hug the wall and pop the loose window latch, you can make a break-in just fine." :)

There's nothing I like and admire more than community-run events -- I'm a fan. We're all fans of such events. And you can believe that none of us want to put anyone to any inconvenience in connection with organizing or operating such an event. I've been thinking about the core question that you've asked, and I want to ponder further about it as well as speak with my associates on the Support Team on the issue. It's a simple question that doesn't have a ready, simple answer.

Thanks for your patience as we consider this. -- Gaile 18:31, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt reply Gaile, I absolutely agree it would be counter productive to start listing parameters. It's not sensible for obvious reasons. I think I'm simply in a difficult position given what I tend to get up to around Guild Wars, which is why the original discussion caught my attention. If Arenanet checked my trades for Friday the 2nd of May, for example, they'd see me hopping between LA and Kamadan personally giving away over 500k of items over the course of 4 hours to absolutely anyone who could catch and trade me (yes, I know I should find better things to do with my Friday night :P). It was an event many of us took part in, and between us all we gave away a few million worth of items to people...I can't describe how fun those sorts of things are, it leaves me smiling for days.

Thanks again for the preliminary response, I'll leave you to ponder it further. --Bunny - Angel talk 18:58, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

I think you should feel safe to continue doing that. It's fairly unlikely that you'll be mistaken for a gold seller, and even if you are, the false positive will be fixed quickly. -- Alaris 19:01, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a very fun event, Bunny! I hope to see you and your friends in action soon! :) -- Gaile 19:17, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha, I just had an image in my head of someone borrowing a 100k loan from the bank and then being banned from life. XD!

forgive me for knowing this but online goldsellers make their customers trade something useless (salvage kit, blue weapon) so they wont risk a ban like this, say...I'de buy someone's r4 10-17 War Axe for 100k would that get me banned? Jonny10 09:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

One trade like that shouldnt be a problem. After all, Anet would need actual proof. There may be other reasons why you did that. But if the account is constantly trading small things like salvage kits for 100k, then thats something that they'd need to intervene in. It all depends though. -- Wandering Traveler 13:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

So would this be a solution? It would look like someone really doesnt know how much things are actually worth... can't ban someone for ignorance hehe Jonny10 17:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Gaile, in response to what you said above about not creating anything from nothing, how come members at ArenaNet can't just spawn items? Like, if they made the game, shouldn't they be able to really do anything within the game since it is technically a game? — ク Eloc 貢 00:55, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

I wondered once why Arenanet staff couldn't just create things for themselves, but then I realised how boring it would be to play a game where there was no challenge or adventure...if Arenanet staff could have everything they wanted (minipets and green bows galore Gaile!) they might not be as inspired to play the game along with everyone else. Personally I find it nicer knowing staff actually play Guild Wars themselves like the rest of the community and can therefore sympathise with the issues. --Bunny - Angel talk 18:12, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

You're so right, Angel. The fact is, I know the value of an Ecto because I have so few. :D My minis are precious because I have waited so long to have them join the family. I understood when players posted about how difficult Thunderhead Keep was (in the very beginning) because I'd just been there and had been handed my... hat. ;)

ArenaNet folks are legitimate players and it really does give us a solid perspective for our game. -- Gaile 23:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) A player sent me a message saying he was concerned that he and/or his friend might be blocked for gold sales when they trade a substantial amount of gold with one another. I spoke with the Support Teams about this, and they confirmed what I had mentioned earlier. They suggested that the best way to put it might be: "Every trade is reviewed by a Support Team member, and they look at all the elements of the trade. As long as this is a legitimate transaction, you should have no issues with being blocked." -- Gaile 18:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the update Gaile. I attended a rather large community event last night in Kamadan. A guild kindly put together a Fashion Show contest with 400k of prizes to be won and it was so much fun! I really enjoyed myself, and at the prize giving I made sure to remind people giving/receiving lots of 100k to screen cap their trades "just in case". I've told my alliance the same "If in doubt, screen cap". I figure having evidence set aside makes it easier to raise a ticket with the support team if the worse happens. --Bunny - Angel talk 08:58, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Ingame advertising

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Should be a report option for that, rather than reporting a gold seller for spamming. 80.193.1.106 17:24, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I have relayed that in the past. Making the changes takes the time of a few team members, and we are currently asking folks to just hit "Spamming" as the reason. When we pull the data, we'll know how to categorize the report. Thanks a lot. -- Gaile 17:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

One or two new reporting options would be nice, but I can imagine that it would require some extra database work. I'd be nice to at least edit the descriptions of the current reporting options to better describe what falls under them. Editing some text can hardly be much work... — Poki#3 11:51, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

It would take some work, it's true. But we're talking about it, and it's possible we can expand the list a bit in the future. I don't know any sort of timeline, but it's a definite possibility.

Editing the text would be relatively easy, I agree, and I'm going to ask for a few modifications, in the event someone could do that. For instance, instead of just Spamming, make it "Spamming and In-Game Advertising" or something of the like. -- Gaile 03:54, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

If we get a separate option for in-game advertising, then wouldn't it be easier for ANet to counter the RMT issue by prioritising reports in this category, rather than having to sift through hundreds of reports of silly little kids spamming swear words in local at GToB etc? 80.193.1.106 23:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Automated Guild Spamming?

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I just changed districts in GtoB, and got PM-spammmed with a guild invite as soon as I loaded. This is very similar to the way they used to spam for gold selling (thanks for clearing that up by the way!), but is instead for a guild. I used the /report feature, but is it just me or are they being a little stupid? Can't you guys just disband the guild if that gets reported? Bot-spamming for gold might be understandable, I can see them maybe making a profit on that, but guild recruiting? Ashes Of Doom 00:28, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for reporting the issue using the /report feature. I don't know that we'd disband the guild -- rather doubt that, in fact. However, certainly those involved with whisper-spamming will be given a time out if they're reported and that might influence recruitment and member retention. You know, "Where's the guild leader and the two top officers?" "Oh, they're all blocked for spamming." ;) -- Gaile 18:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the response. What really struck me was the fact that this seemed to be instantaneous when I loaded the district. I had always assumed that when I was being spammed that quickly for gold selling it was being done by a bot, but maybe not. I can't see anyone using a bot to invite to a guild. Ashes Of Doom 23:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

*sigh*

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

I don't suppose there is a way to get a recently deleted character back is there? Because last night I accidently deleted my monk (Yes I realize how ridiculous this must sound, with your great protective system against deletion)...I was tired, and I tried to delete my PvP character, and instead clicked on my PvE monk, instinctively typed in his name, Lord Oranos, and pressed enter before I realized what was going on >_<. I don't really expect there is a way, but I figured as the support gal, if there ever was a way, you would know. Thanx for reading this, -Warior Kronos 23:34, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I was like "how the hell did you manage to do THAT?" when I first began reading, but when you explain it actually makes sense. We do sometimes act on autorun - not being fully awake. As far as I know, there isn't any way of getting your character back - but I guess there should have been (24 hour reset or so). Even if the protection system against deletion is very state of the art. Even more importantly there should have been a undo sales button. I live in constant fear of accidentaly selling my Voltaic Spear :P -- Titus The Third 08:29, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha, I agree, but the trade thing would probably be unfeasible to incorporate to the system. I remember I accidently destroyed my Ogre-slaying knife a while back, and more for sentimental reasons was upset. About characters, I was just checking as a last hope. Perhaps making a 24 hour recovery system, only for PvE characters, only the most recent deletion, might not be too bad, but I could be completely wrong. Still it would be nice...and I'll remember not to play GW when I'm on auto-run from now on =P-Warior Kronos 17:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm so sorry to hear about what happened. :( We don't have any sort of "roll-back" feature in Guild Wars, as you know. I don't know about the complexity of such a system -- I suspect it would be very complicated to extract the data from an enormous database and essentially reconstruct a character, once deleted -- but it is something I've seen requested before. I think it would be great to add your comments to the Suggestions page for Guild Wars 2. I don't remember what month it was suggested, but it's definitely a worthwhile inclusion to those pages! -- Gaile 18:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks alot for your time, and I will add this to the suggestion page. On the bright side, of all the characters I could've lost in that tired state of mind, he was probably the best possible one that could've been deleted (I didn't play him exceptionally often, I only had one set of 15k on him, Brohn Stonehart's set, and no cash). Always look on the bright side =D. I understand how complicated this would be, and wasn't really expecting a "Sure we'll get him back by tomorrow evening" but thanks again for answering. -Warior Kronos 19:52, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Account Security Concerns

Hey there, Gaile. You probably know the situation about all those accounts being "stolen" during the past couple of weeks. The evergrowing number of threads on forums is alarming but we still have no real news about all this, just an answer about one case. Here are some examples:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10284431

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10288598

I've been through articles about this PlayNC-thingy but i'd like to know if anything is really planned to fix this. People are often downloading wrong content, giving a try at 3rd P Progs and stuff but this aint due to a couple uses of Texmods... One thing should have been implemented a long ago, some sort of lock. Especially since the addition of Titles.

Those, even if optional, require enormous amounts of cash and/or play time and can be entirely destroyed by deleting the character. Even worse, people are getting a lot more into this, partially due to "extras" in GW2 and the use of HoM.

Even if GW got no monthly fee, people paid for a product. What if they lose all that in-game involvement due to something out of their control? Not mentioning the PlayNC trap who got thousands of accounts, with the BMP a while ago...

As said above, deleting a character instantly erases all its data: titles, armors etc... It would probably require too much to change all this, but a character lock feature or even account based seems the best option to keep every Title/HoM safe. Adding a PERMANENT way to simply remove the delete button from an account sounds like an easy plan imo.

Maybe GW is an old game now, everyone is pointing at GW2 already, but all those players who lost their stuff wont even bother with GW2...Witchblade 10:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Client Exploit Concern

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Could i direct your attention to this thread [1]. By the sounds of it, someones account was accessed via some kind of client exploit bug. There has been an increasing number of similar incidents reported on the forums. Also, some other security concerns are raised, theres no 'x password tries' then account lockdown on the gw client to prevent bruteforce attacks. On the plaync website, once logged in its too easy to change a password for a game account, it does not send any kind of email to confirm the change, or even ask for the old password --92.235.8.13 11:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Just a note, there actually is a system in place to prevent brute force attacks, it's simply not as obvious as "x tries and you're locked out". Rather, there is a subtly increasing delay between subsequent failed attempts, it increases slowly enough that anyone who simply forgot their password and tried a few things wouldn't notice, but an automated program attempting to guess 10's of thousands of passwords would quickly get bogged down to the point where such brute force is infeasible. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 11:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I've read the thread, and I'll see what I can learn about this. While I will need to inquire about the PlayNC security observations you've made, Aiiane's comments about Guild Wars' brute force protection are accurate. The brute-force prevention is not as obvious as "X times and you're blocked," but it's just as effective at preventing a concerted effort to try random passwords. -- Gaile 17:56, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Its more worrying the idea of some kind of modified game client exploit that allows the hacker to force disconnect any player and reconnect using their account, rather than the taditional access account via stolen login details --Just One More Thing 18:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I understand. I would imagine that if such a thing existed, we'd see a lot more reports. However, that is not to dismiss the concern, by any means. I'm actively reading that thread and have already sent one email on it, and I will be writing more and sending them out now. Thanks for keeping me in the loop on this. It's definitely a support issue and I will do my best to help with it! -- Gaile 18:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Was that purely a GW-client based bug, though, or were third party programs involved? There's always a risk with those (even popular ones), and it wouldn't be surprised if some of the most famous ones have been hijacked and subtly altered by now to be used for such a purpose. (After all, it's well known, so people are less likely to suspect something that everyone's using and that's available from multiple sources.) Even something like textmod, which many people think harmless enough not to merit a mention as a risk at all, could be a threat by now. Just a thought, though- I'm sure that while some people may be the victim of 3rd party issues, there are others who are running into a potentially very dangerous bug. -- Elv 19:40, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

In this particualr case, the guru poster claims not to have used any 3rd party programs, not even texmod. Ashes Of Doom 21:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

In a broader sense, though, the OP was referring to "similar incidents". I think it'd be a good idea to find out how many of those are related to 3rd party programs, and how many give details on a potential bug, if only to narrow down the field that needs to be searched. -- Elv 22:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Elv, you bring up a very valid point: A lot of times, the "100% Legitimate and Harmless Program" that everyone knows and trusts turns into the "Evil Keylogger from The Nether Reaches" with the addition of a few strings of code. As you know, ArenaNet does not support the use of any third-party programs. As a player, if I were going to be tempted to use one -- any one -- I would be sure to get it only directly from a reputable source. Not from a "mirror," not from a friend who downloaded it, not from a forum link or a guild site or any alternative source. Consider that if you get it from a major site, it's their business to be careful about what they are hosting. (Well, unless they disavow that responsibility, something to watch out for.) If you get that program as a pass-along, nobody's business rests on whether it's clear or malware.

Granted, I'm a major scaredy cat about Internet security, but that is one piece of advice that I've been sharing for more than 10 years. Another is "don't use third-party programs" of course. :) However, I do understand that some people will use them, and I do believe that the "get it from a reputable, verified source" holds true today even more than it did back in the day. -- Gaile 23:13, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm as big a hero as you are. I avoid all third-party stuff, just to be safe. Sure, it makes cartography a pain, but I'd rather stare at my screen to find the last .1% than try to log on one day and find my account stolen. :) -- Elv 13:14, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

about chinese account block

Dear Galile,sorry to trouble you,maybe you still remember me or maybe not.After chinese server closed,we went to american server to play,we are really player not farmer!Now i have two account block ,one is put in to the GM(Reference#080425-000922),please see the following:My friend work in Anet ,he tell me that must give you the real information!

i am chinese player,i get the guild wars prophecies and PVP KIT CDKS through our american server guild leader's visa and i pay him RMB through chinese bank, this happened in last December,in march,i buy EN CDK use my chinese visa through in-gmae store,but the next day my visa hadn't been charged and my account had been blocked!

but now i cannot connect my guild leader anymore,so my condition is very complex

the last four digits of the credit card last used to purchase my copy of Guild Wars Eye Of The North online is 1190

I just want the account back of course without EN,please help me ,thank you!--Bright亮月 00:48, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

File:GM PJ.jpg

My response:OK，GM PJ，you mean:all the china players'account must be blocked?

are you sure?do you have the right?is the user agreement tells that chinese player cannot accessing the North America Guild Wars service?

of course you do not have the right,also the user agree ment doesn't tell that ,so you are lying,you just make short shrift of

because you first let me show the credit card,then i give it to you ,but you ignore it but tell other inessential thing!

i left a message in Gaile's page and i will chat with him about this and about your irresponsible words !

Now i am not just want my account back i want you apologize for your racialism!!!--Bright亮月 01:57, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Bright. I have read this message and I am sorry that it's taking a bit of time to get this sorted out. I have checked the support incident that you submitted, which seems to be what you posted above plus some more recent notes. I have spoken with some of the Support Team members about this situation, too. It's a very complicated issue, because of the purchases being made by someone else on your behalf, and so forth. The issue is still being actively looked at by the team. If there is any way that we can help you with this, I know that we will do so. And please do be assured there's no racism involved in this! Guild Wars is a global community and we like and respect all our players and want to help all of them to have a good experience. So we are going to continue to do the best that we can to resolve this to everyone's satisfaction! You take care, and I hope to have more information soon. 谢谢 -- Gaile 20:20, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, there, Bright. It looks to me as if you had some good news today about your account. :) -- Gaile 19:07, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Gaile,i am so exciting!Thank you very very very much!And also sorry of my rude and irresponsible words to GM PJ.I only can do is just my words,because i am so far away,but i will support you and your work and your team as possible as i can if i have chance,please trust me,this is a common chinese play's promise!A-ha,thanks Jason all the same^_^--Bright亮月 00:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Reconnecting

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hi Gaile, I never officially congratulated you when it happened (although I did go wild at the party) but I hope your new position is working out for you. As for the topic at hand I'm having a little trouble with reconnects and was wondering if it is meant to work like this. After successfully reconnecting I can play through that instance as normal but if I attempt to zone or map to a different area I get stuck at the loading screen and can't do anything, I have to close the game and start all over again. Normally this isn't a problem when just vanquishing an area or capturing a skill but it is a nuisance when attempting dungeons or certain GW:EN repeatable primary quests that take place in dungeons, its not a lot of fun getting to the second floor and disconnecting only to reconnect and not being able to progress further. Is this a byproduct of the fix to the duping incident or something else? -- Broodling 05:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

As part of the reconnecting feature it is recommended that the player opens the Friends List (N) and ensures that the character is logged back in. Even though "Online" might be displayed initially you might find that a minute later your character's status will have switched to "Offline" and that can leave the door open for a few issues, which I suspect might include the one you mention above. I can't say for sure if it will fix that particular issue, but at least logging back in on the Friends List does prevent some issues from developing after a reconnect. -- WarBlade 08:12, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I didn't know that before, thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to be working, I have tried forcing disconnects a few times now and then logging back in to the friends list after reconnecting I still can't zone or map to new areas properly. It was a nice try. -- Broodling 14:57, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmm... Sorry to hear this, Broodling. Have you submitted a Support ticket about this yet? I would encourage you to do so, because our Tech Support Team may have some good advice to give on this, or they may want to ask you for some details to learn about the issue from someone experiencing it. Frankly, I suspect it's a local Internet issue, rather than a game issue, but Tech Support would be much more qualified to make that assessment and I'd really like to get them into the act on this. Could you submit a ticket? Thanks. -- Gaile 03:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Protecting Users from Themselves: Deletion Safety Net

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

It might be wise to consider adding in a safety net to the character deletion process (if not to guild wars, but at least gw2). For the sake of avoiding accidental user and malicious actions. We've seen recently a growing trend of account hacking and players loosing their hard earned wares. Items can be replaced, but when characters are erased who are years old and have thousands of hours invested into them, this sort of thing is very serious for the players it affects.

Some ways this could be handled include adding a time buffer to deletion process. A character would only be deleted from the system after a given period, and not immediately. So for example, you select to delete a character, he appears 'greyed out' on the character select screen for a period of 48 hours. during this time, a player cannon play that character, but, can decide to restore it into a playable state. if no action by the player is taken, that character will be purged after the 48hrs expires.

Another soultion would be to add a second password to each account, being seperate from the login password would be required if a player wished to delete a character.

On the subject of items being stolen via trade, scam and account theft, trasactions could be added to provide an added method of safetly. Where all trasactions are logged and can be rolled back by the system if needed.

--92.235.8.13 00:10, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Logging all transactions in all of GW would be an enormous strain on the servers. I think they're lucky to remember whats in every individual players storage accounts, let alone try to log each individual player trying to trade whatever doodads they need. ~ Wandering Traveler 00:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

No need for any complicated stuff. Just be able to place a permanent lock on a character would be enough, if people want it undone then thats kinda tough. It's a lot easier to buy a new char slot than having to redo an entire fully HoM'd and titled out character. User:Shan 11:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Some time ago I saw a suggestion about this that I liked, I think it was something that you can lock the character for (let's say) 3 months, during that time your locked char cannot be deleted. After 3 months you have an option of either lock that char again, delete it, or leave it unlocked. --MageMontu 12:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

A single button that locks your character for 90 days, which you can reset to 90 days at any time, and a counter telling you how many days it is locked for. -- Alaris 13:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the anon's suggestion for a deletion buffer (already seen in other MMOs) is more easily implemented than "character-locking". It's much easier to just add a time column to the backend than it is to come up with new UI elements to support the locking. Also, locking will require yet another password from the same user (and it's possible many of them will use the same or a similar password). Or maybe they'd have to make it such that the PlayNC website is used for locking. The only downside of a deletion timer is that you are prevented from re-using the same name until the buffer has passed, say 3 days or 1 week. -- ab.er.rant 14:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree that the deletion timer is easier to implement, but it's harder to use for players. Many players will delete a character to re-make it, whether in PvP or just to get the Survivor title. A 48h delay would be hell for them. Character-locking is relatively simple, it's 1 button and its associated code, and it has no player-side downsides (except for "oh noes I changed my mind"). -- Alaris 15:19, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm... if a 48hr lock would be hell, wouldn't a 90-day lock be worse? ;) -- ab.er.rant 15:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

It's a different kind of lock. The 48h refers to keeping your "deleted" character unplayable but undeleted for 48h. It also makes the name unusable. So if you delete any character, you can't use the name for 48 hours. The 90 days refer to making your character undeletable for that period of time. This is something you do to characters you want to keep, so there's no issue here. -- Alaris 16:36, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

To reuse a slot right away after deleting a character can be solved by an additional slot being added to you account automatically. Obviously if you make a new character and try to restore the deleted char, it will warn you that 1 slot must be free in order for that char to be restored. As for the nick lock, it could be released when the char is deleted. It would just mean if you restore a deleted character you have to enter a new name if you created another character in the meantime with the same name. --92.235.8.13 17:47, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Here are a few semi-random thoughts, some of which I've shared before, and some of which probably are not related to ideas within this particular thread but which I'm tossing out anyway, just because. ;)

• Passwording character slots to prevent malicious deletion could be a reasonable suggestion, I guess. Doing so to allow a double-check that you, the account holder, really, really want to delete a character seems sort of unnecessary, since we do ask that people retype that name and assert that yes, that's what they intend. This extra password or set of passwords would also undoubtedly result in a lot of Support requests for lost passwords along with erroneous "error reports," etc.
• Locking a character slot for months at a time would undoubtedly result in a lot of Support requests as well. "I changed my mind," or "I locked down the wrong character." There's nothing wrong with asking Support for help--not at all! But it's good to try to foresee the need for areas of assistance and make player self-help part of the picture. (Just as asking you to retype the name of a deletable character is a means to allow you to make extra sure you're doing what you intend to do.)
• Adding an extra slot is a poor idea. (Sorry!) We saw many issues with extra slots when we held preview events and allowed extra slots. Surely you remember those stories: folks loaned their favourite weapons to a Hero during a preview event, but then found they could not access the Hero again until the actual release of the game; others gave their favourite item to a character on the extra slot, but because that character was tied to the new game, they, too, had to wait until the game came out to get into the inventory and retrieve the item. (Reference: Nightfall, Factions.) And, just in case someone thought of this as a potential solution to that conundrum, having some sort of system to automatically move items from the extra character into the account's storage, or the inventory of an existing (non-extra) character, isn't feasible. That's because many of us *whistles innocently* run with constantly-full inventories and there would be no space into which the items could move. :)
• A time-delay for deletion could be good, but also could be unwieldy and a major inconvenience. It could cause another rise in calls for Support, but an increase in requests for Support assistance is really not a major cause of concern when considering the implementation of a good idea, it's just something I feel I should mention. But the core idea -- having characters "greyed out" and yet restorable -- could possibly be cheesed. I imagine that the theory here is if your account is stolen and someone tries to delete a character, the owner of the account can file a support ticket and get the account restored before the character is well and fully gone, right? If that's the case, I wonder what the appropriate period of time would be. Some would say 24 hours, others a week. A few might be unhappy that a deletion happened during their month-long vacation. And programming a variable amount of time sounds pretty challenging, so that's likely not on, either.
• Rolling back an individual player's or character's trades, sales, and exchanges is tricky because, again, it can be cheesed. "I lost my Sword of Amazing and Splendiferous Forceful Mightiness!" But yet, somewhere in the dark reaches of another account lies that selfsame weapon, awaiting the "restoration roll-back" that essentially duplicates it. :-/

In the end, the best prevention for accidental or malicious character deletion or item theft is thoughtful, cautious, and diligent account security. But believe me, I don't want to appear negative about these ideas -- they are all very helpful to see, from a Support perspective in particular. I hope that we can continue talking about this so that we can make solid suggestions involving those ideas that players feel would be most helpful in addressing this concern. IOW, thanks for the discussion, and keep it coming! -- Gaile 03:59, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I do agree the 2nd account password may be the easier solution to implement, as it would certainly protect from hackers since they would only know the login password. It still might not stop some players from accidently deleting their characters (and they do, even requiring the name), you might need to add a "are you really really sure you want to proceed" popup dialog ;)

I probably should have explained the extra slot as part of the time-delayed deletion better. Say you delete a character, his avatar now appears greyed out. Deleting the character provides a blank slot, just as it does now when you delete a character. The difference being you still see the deleted avatar, but cannot play him unless you choose to restore him. And the only way you can restore him is if you have one free slot. So, it means you can restore that character within the timeperiod (say 24rs) or make a completely new character if you wish. Technically the user doesnt get an additonal slot, just frees up the slot when deleting a character, and has the option to restore a deleted character to that slot if required. And if not restored 24hrs after deletion, the greyed out avatar dissapears and is purged from the system permanently.

That ofcourse is just one suggestion out of many, but the basic idea remains the same. There should be some kind of safety net to protect players hard earned characters from accidental or malicious deletion. To give players piece of mind and added feeling of protection and safety. --92.235.8.13 04:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Ideally, any sort of "deletion" buffer would only apply to characters above a certain age (say, 48 hours of playing time) and only to max level PvE characters (since PvP characters are typically expendable). A good compromise, in my mind, would be a 24-hour time delay on deletions for max-level PvE characters who have a /played of at least 48 hours, with an email message sent to the account's email notifying the user that a deletion has been requested. This would allow people to still freely re-roll PvP characters, characters going for survivor, or just alts that they decided they wanted a different primary or whatnot. It would also provide a viable buffer against malicious activity on the account, without providing massively undue inconvenience. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 07:02, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

I agree, a 24-hour delay would be nice, just to prevent accidents from happening, or worse hacking. About a month back I accidently deleted my monk (while I am enjoying going through ascalon again, it would be nice to have my old monk back), just because I was tired, but I caught the mistake just 5 minutes after the fact, so a simple 24 hour "safety net" for: Max level, over 48 hours, PvE characters would be great if possible.-Warior Kronos 16:29, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

I can see a lot of good in a delayed-deletion process. Here are some things we should think about:

1. The player must still have access to the email address that makes up his/her user name. There are a surprising number of people who no longer use their Guild Wars user name email address; we see proof of that every day in support tickets. He/she may lose access due to ISP changes such as a change in ownership or a move to a new ISP name that influences the email address; perhaps the ISP even goes out of business (something I read about in a referred ticket yesterday). The player may close the account or lose access by not logging in frequently enough to retain ownership -- remember Hotmail's 30-day rule? Or, the player's email may get hacked, making a confirmation sort of moot. :(
2. That last bit brings up a related concern: Often, way more often than it should happen, someone is hacked through a key logger that gives access to not just the game account, but the email account, too. So Mr. Hacker can simply set the deletion in motion, and essentially wait for the email to confirm the deletion or let it proceed by not declining it.
3. We also have the matter of infrequently used email addresses. Who hasn't opened a lesser-used in-box to see "You have 284 unread messages?" :) And we often see someone respond to a support ticket saying "Sorry for the delay, I don't check this email address very often." So that ties to my concern about "how long is long enough?" If it's 24 hours, some will say "I only check this account every few weeks." If it's too long, that's not good, either.
4. Some families share an email account. Is that a concern?
5. I do like the parameters mentioned above, that the character should be a PvE char of max level... although I think for Guild Wars 2 we may need to rethink that second bit. :)

Anyway, I want to say again that I think this is a really great conversation, and I'm going to discuss it with the entire Support Team when we meet soon. We'll assess the types of deletions that take place and consider the incidents we see that are related to character deletions so that with those in mind, we can offer suggestions for Guild Wars, for Guild Wars 2, or for both. Keep the ideas coming! -- Gaile 20:12, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

On the subject of account email, users still need the ability to change it. For the reason you mentioned, either that email is no longer accessable, or for a matter of security they wish to change it. Maybe binding login to an email address instead of a username was a mistake that could be rectified in GW2. --92.235.8.13 04:03, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

With regards to #1, Gaile, that's a matter of addressing the cause rather than the symptoms: players should never be forced to have the account email be an address they no longer have access to. A method of changing the active email address for an account is really quite overdue - the fact that Guild Wars uses an email address as its user name rather than a separately chosen identifier makes it more of an issue. Hopefully, Guild Wars 2 will use a separately chosen username that just has an email address stored for the account, so that the email can be changed independently of the user name. However, even if a user doesn't have access to the account's email anymore, the system I proposed still provides them with more safety than the current mechanic does, since the 24-hour delay is still there, and it doesn't hinder them in any way, because they aren't required to receive the email to delete the character; the email is just an extra notification to help avoid malicious deletions. Thus, not having access to the email doesn't hinder a player, it just means the protection isn't quite as much.

2: that's why it's a 24-hour delay, and not just an email confirmation. Even if they have access to the email account, they still can't force-delete a character. The best they could do is delete the email notification and hope the true owner doesn't notice in time when logging in to the game, but that's enough of a deterrent that it should prevent a large number of incidents, and it's really impossible to protect against everything. It's more about providing a "reasonable" amount of protection than trying to make it impossible to do anything malicious.

3: As with the previous paragraph, you basically just have to draw the line somewhere - that, or let the user decide where the line should be themselves. The former is the easiest, and 24 hours seems to be the most reasonable value. The latter provides more flexibility, but also takes more time investment in designing the system - one example I can think of would be to have an option in account preferences that allows you to set the deletion buffer time to anything from 12 hours to up to 1 week; any changes to this option would take 1 week to go into effect (unless it has never been set before) so that a malicious user couldn't simply change the buffer before doing the deletions. But again, that's more complicated to code, and a fixed 24-hour buffer would likely address the majority of circumstances.

4: What people do with their email accounts is up to them. Interactions within families are not (imho) something ArenaNet should be responsible for regulating or protecting against beyond a reasonable standard for any user. Ideally, families should get along. *wink* But failing that, they should be treated just like any other users who shared an email account - namely, it's not the best idea for security, and in the end it's their decision to toss away that safeguard.

5: For Guild Wars 2 it could really be the same, if instead of thinking of "max level" you simply think of "at least level X" - X=20 in the case of Guild Wars 1.

(Aiiane - talk - contribs) 20:48, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm really liking Aiiane and 92.235.8.13's suggestions. Delete a character of sufficent age/level, make the slot empty, put character's button in a different part of the screen with a countdown pie effect on it. Select that and click into an empty slot to undelete. That prohibits a hacker from writing over the space, you could just delete the filler. And as an extra headache-preventer, make restored characters undeletable for 2-4-6 weeks to discourage people using it for extra temp slots.

Oh, and speaking of moving characters in any way, let us re-arrange the char list? Ctrl-click / ctrl-arrow to swap selected and another slot? We'd love you. :D --Star Weaver 04:52, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

GW News Reader

Hi,

I wonder if I violate any copyright laws in further developing and using this program: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/showthread.php?t=478788

Thank you (Qanar | talk) 07:09, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

chinese account block

hello Gaile.sorry to trouble you.my friends and me in the same Internet cafe playing GW, suddenly account blocked,Ask a Question, GM said that I had with the real world of cash transactions, the Question has repeatedly been closed.is put in to the GM(Reference#080529-000071). This is how innocent and wrongly accused. We China's network is not every family has. I play games in many groups-Internet cafes. I think you should know that many people with a very large network, what will happen. I think I did not violate the rules, I like GW, disgusted with the real world cash transactions, they destroyed the game.sry. My English is not good. --Black cat 03:59, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Black Cat. Your English is just fine! I have asked the Support Team to let me know about this situation. I'm sorry that the account was blocked, but I do not yet have all the information that I need, so please give us a bit of time to figure out what has been happening with this account. They need to check who purchased the account, its location, who is accessing it, what is happening on the account, and more. Thanks. -- Gaile 04:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Hi Galie,black cat is my friend,i introduced her to your page for help,sorry to trouble you again^_^，she has three accound(block one then buy another,but blocked again,when her third one blocked,she cried and find me to help)，but all had been blocked with the same reason:linked to a gold selling network.I think maybe blocked in error,please check them again,many thanks.o,thank you again about my account!--Bright亮月 05:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Galie,another two accounts' reference is Reference#080604-001366 and Reference#080610-000385,please take some time to focus on it,with my appreciate!--Black cat 05:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Galie!!!my account has been unblocked!thx very much ^_^--Black cat 00:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you Gaile,her three accounts all released!But i still have question,one of her accounts had been blocked for 3times and release for 3 times with same reason-linked to a gold selling network,it is not her problem,one of my friend Howard has the same problem(his Reference#080608-001150 doesn't released yet!).they all common players

and play at home,why they meet this problem?How to avoid?Thank you!--Bright亮月 01:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Bright, I do not think they are all playing at home. Some have said "I play at a PC Cafe." Some of the people at that location are gold selling -- we can see it! Playing at a PC Cafe is risky. Letting someone use your computer, your home, or your account to sell gold or to bot will result in a ban. Sometimes, people tell us they are at home, and they're playing inside a gold-seller building. :

We were able to release some accounts, but there are three suggestions that I make to all players:

• Never play near or with gold-sellers. Not even to trade a single piece of gold or a plank of wood!
• Never let someone else use your computer, even if they are playing on another account.
• Never let someone else use your account to sell or deliver or even touch gold that is for sale! If that happens, the account will be banned and we probably will never be able to restore it. :(
  

Your friend must write the Support Team and continue to discuss this with them. Support does a great job, and a very difficult job. Let's allow them to do all that they can to help at this time. -- Gaile 06:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much,and i will translate your advice to my country's players,about the first one,i think maybe that's the point,i tell you in responsible that most of them do not know they are play near or with gold-sellers!I know chinese players was famous of gold selling before,but based on Anet's good system,it has been history,because all most of the gold selling work studio's account had been blocked,so that's a problem,many common chinese players have been involve in account block,thay all undeserved,and they don't know how to release,even they don't know how to write an english letter!Also lots of common accounts blocked are beat our belief about!I think all the world wide company knows china is a big market,and china's MMORPG market is also big!

About all,i have two ideas,

• let our chinese players have a convenient way to buy GW CDKs;
• There is a chinese simplefiled support page and also support chinese letter.

I know these two is impossible for GW,but in GW2 we hope it will carry out,thank you!

By the way,through Weillz and my steps,you are famous in our counety's players.Thanks for your work and don't forget to log in again^_^--Bright亮月 13:22, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

hi ,gaile

my friend supereva1984, his ID is block,it's #080610-000749...help me. 与Black cat 亮月祭的情况是一样的。他们都是我的朋友.--Weillz 10:12, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Wellz said,his friend named supereva1984,whose account had been blocked the same reason as mine,he wants help!

I'm sorry maybe i and my friends let your page become"chinese account blocked gathering",but we are scaring of beening blocked,and many players don't know english,so now i am focusing on how to help them to release their acconts which had been blocked in error! I wish you will understand me,thank you my dear friend!--Bright亮月 02:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

they say :"Thank you for verifying this information. This PlayNC Master account and the associated accounts with this master account have been closed as a result of false information applied to the PlayNC Master. The personal and billing addresses of this account have false information entered. Please review the Lineage User Agreement regarding our decision to close this game account." please help me.--Weillz 01:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

我的朋友（supereva1984），通过美国一位朋友购买了guildwars。之后supereva1984又通过中国大陆的银行卡购买了 c3pvp 和 gwen，现在被封号了，很无奈的求助于你，希望得到你的帮助。

My friend (supereva1984), a friend of the United States through the purchase of the guildwars. Supereva1984 passed after mainland China's bank card to buy a c3pvp and gwen, the titles now, it is helpless recourse to you, you want the help.--Weillz 01:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Basically, this person "supereva1984" (it's not a user name, so it could possible be a PlayNC login name) bought GW (didn't mention which campaign) via a friend who resided in the US. Later, that person also bought Nightfall PvP Edition and GW:EN using a "bank card of a bank in China" (possibly a debit card). Now, that person got blocked, apparently accused of giving false information. Could this be a result of the account key being tied to the US but the login came from a Chinese IP instead? -- ab.er.rant 02:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

thank you Ab.er.rant --Weillz 06:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ab.er.rant, you are a great friend, and thank you! -- Gaile 06:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) About the account of supereva1984. I do not think that we block all Chinese IPs. I know that we block IPs that are associated with gold selling; I do not think that we block individual legitimate players because of their IP address. I will ask about this to be sure. This is my belief: I think if the account is legitimate (is not involved in botting or gold sales) and if the payment to buy the account was ok then the player can continue to play. What I am reading here is that we do not have accurate information on the account. That is a worry to me; perhaps Support can help supereva1984 fix that? What I do not know is, was the account properly paid for? If the payments were all fine, and if this player is not involved in RMT, I think it would be ok to play. After all, you yourself are playing Weillz, as is Black Cat and others. :)

But I cannot give a solid answer yet. Please allow me to ask about this -- I will try to learn more about this matter so that I can give all of you my best answers and help, if I am able. -- Gaile 06:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Gaile, you forgot to log in again :P --MageMontu 09:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

*wave hand* No, no I didn't. ;) -- Gaile 00:42, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Greetings,

Thank you for verifying this information. This PlayNC Master account and the associated accounts with this master account have been closed as a result of false information applied to the PlayNC Master. The personal and billing addresses of this account have false information entered.

Please review the Lineage User Agreement regarding our decision to close this game account.

http://www.plaync.com/us/help/agreements.html

4. ACCOUNT

(h) Registration Obligations. You agree to provide true, accurate, current and complete information about yourself as prompted by the Service's registration form ("Registration Data") and maintain and promptly update the Registration Data to keep it true, accurate, current and complete. If you provide any information that is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, or NC Interactive has reasonable grounds to suspect that such information is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, NC Interactive has the right to suspend or terminate your Account and refuse any and all current or future use of the Service. --Weillz 00:39, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but why are you cutting and pasting large portions of a support ticket here? Please discuss this with support. If they ask me to get involved, I will. But at this point, they would be the appropriate people to work with you to resolve this issue; I would not get involved at this point. (As gently as I can say this, it's important to make it clear that I cannot, should not, and will not be the "Go to Gaile and avoid Support" person! I hope that everyone understands.)

I will say that those having a friend create an account (perhaps this is done in order to make a purchase on an accepted credit card) must have the person creating the account provide accurate information about you, such as name, address, and so forth. When Support tries to establish that you are the owner, if you have false or inaccurate PlayNC information, you will not be able to prove you own the account and they will not be able to help you. :( -- Gaile 00:53, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

同样的情况下，black cat和bright亮月的帐号就解封了，为什么我不能？The same circumstances, black cat and bright light on the account on the unblocked, why I can't ? 那个美国的朋友，为我们购买的帐号，但是同样都是我们购买新章节的时候，被封号（使用中国的信用卡）。That America's friends, we buy accounts, but we are the same when the purchase of a new chapter, the titles (use of China's credit card).--Weillz 06:32, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

对于中国玩家，gaile你是我们的朋友，我们有你的支持才能解封帐号，我们需要你的帮助。如果不向你倾述我们的痛苦，我们又将如何来达到被认同的目的呢？？？For the Chinese audience, gaile you are our friends, we have the support you can unblocked account, we need your help. If you do not Qingshu our pain, how will we be recognized to achieve the purpose of this ??--Weillz 06:37, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

我非常生气！，如果我在美国，会遭受到封号的打击吗？这是什么道理？认真的那里游戏，不违反什么过错，也不侵害他人，就因为中国不能买到guildwars的号，通过美国的朋友买了，然后自己冲了一个章节就被封号？请anet认真的审核封号的制度ok？这已经不是第一次了，实在是打击中国玩家的信心，我们可以不玩gw，也可以在将来抵制gw2，这种态度，实在让人受不了。！！！I am very angry! If I in the United States, the titles will be subject to the fight against it » What is the truth » Where the game seriously, does not violate any fault, not against others, because China can not buy the guildwars, by America's friends have bought, and then a chapter of their own-were titles » Please carefully review anet titles system ok? This was not the first time, it is against the Chinese player's confidence, we can not play gw, also in the future to resist gw2, this attitude, people can not stand it.--Weillz 06:41, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

sorry, gaile.

I will promptly correct my error, please your understanding.

For lifted the things above, some anxious, sincerely access to your understanding.

Anfenshouji of the game titles have been, it is not puzzled.

--Weillz 08:33, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Question (About Inappropriate Character Names)

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hi

Which of these names are unacceptable and why, i can't play for 3 days cuz some faggot find me reportable.

Crypt Prowler, Virus Angel, Blind God, Eyeless Judge, Heart Virus, Angel Martyr, Cancer Angel, Plagued Angel.

All these chars are more than 4-5 months old and no one have bothered before.

--Cursed Angel 18:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Probably Blind God. It seems that any religious reference, even an innocuous one deserves the banhammer in ANet's reckoning. A Jewish friend and alliance-mate got sanctioned for using the names "I Am Superjew" and "Superjews *" and was forced to rename everything. The fact that it was a religious reference was the reason given when he tried to appeal. --Valshia 19:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I will ask about this. I believe I know the answer, but I'd rather learn directly from Support before making a guess. -- Gaile 19:06, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Reminds me of the person that was forced to change the name of his character. He was names "Brawling Headbutt". I kind of get the "butt" part, but it's it a different context. — Poki#3 19:27, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Brawling Headbutt made me sad, it should not have been blocked. (I think we fixed that one, right?) -- Gaile 07:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Cursed Angel, the name that was blocked was Cancer Angel. I am not completely sure why it was blocked. I would suggest that it may be worthwhile to (nicely :) ) ask the Support Team (you're in Europe, yes?) if they can explain the block. I checked with the North American team lead, and he said that his team would not block the name. However, before that statement causes any concern, it is appropriate that we adjust our standards to the community that we serve. This means that what may be offensive in one country is less or more so in another, and our team will try to address that regional difference in assessing a name concern or a player report. Again, you are free to discuss this with the Support Team to learn more.

This does make me wonder: How do others feel? Is "Cancer Angel" a name you find offensive? Would you feel differently about "AIDS Angel?" It's pretty interesting to consider the lines between vaguely disturbing, somewhat off-putting, and outright offensive. And of course such a judgment varies by individual. I think that I will start a discussion about this on the Support Concerns page in the next day or two. I'd love to hear thoughts on the matter of name filtering and name blocks, as those are two issues that the Support Team deals with frequently. -- Gaile 07:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I find it weird that ppl get offended by such little. I am Christian and I laugh like crazy at some Jokes concerning Jesus (Like Family Guy). Why would someone get offended by the word Cancer? It is a zodiac sign aswell not just the disease. I think whoever reported Cursed Angel must have something against him --MageMontu 08:02, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Things have to be put in context. If i remember right from "other game" (tm), a name simmilar to the one in question here was brought up to the table because it was a common way of refering children (mostly, babies) that died from the disease in question (i am not really sure if it would qualify in this case anyways). For a common apathic user like me it means nothing actually, but i would think that a parent who lost a child that way could find it "offensive".

Also, the problem with not having "name filtering" or "name blocks" is that some names are specifically choosen to "call attention". Same as above, from "another game" (tm), its not hard to find users named "K133t 0ris" by example, name that while not really offensive per se, will still bring some users to report it. With that in mind, i think it's a user's fault after all, if they decided to use a name that they know could hurt someone's (over)sensibility.

I actually liked a rule in "yet another game" (tm) where you HAD to pick a fantasy-themed name (without being able to pick names from literature/fiction, or non-sensical gibberish), but since i don't see this happening on GW/GW2, i think the "name filtering/blocking" methods used have to stay (hopefully, standarized across all those who enforce it).--Fighterdoken 08:16, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I could see where some people might take offense to the "cancer" name in general then to add angel really doesn't help. If you have ever had a family member or friend die of cancer it's not a nice thing to go through. Everytime i see the word cancer it makes me think of my grandmother that died of that diease on christmas in 95. Although, I wouldn't report the name, but i do take a little offense to what the name kind of represents, an angel of cancer. But like i said i wouldn't report the name i would just go on about my business. --BabyJ 13:18, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Cancer could refer to the crab and its associated constellation and astrological sign. It's not clear from the name alone which one this is referring to. -- Alaris 14:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

IMO, Alaris is right. The word "Cancer" has meanings outside the disease itself (the name "cancer" for the disease is, on itself, a reference to the crab), so I don't think it's offensive. Having a character named "Aids Angel" would feel somewhat inappropriate, as it feels like something (deadly) serious is being made fun of. Still, even that isn't something completely condemnable (unlike, for example, an user called "Die Niggers" or something along those lines). Erasculio 14:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Aids also has meaning outside the disease. (example: aids can mean, to provide support or promote the progress or accomplishment of something. Or it can mean the disease) This is where the english language gets really confusing because there are so many words with different meanings. Either way you look at it a word that can be used in context with a disease is more than likely going to offend some people in one way or another. If you really think about it when a person see's the word cancer the first though of that word is the disease not the astrological sign. Unless it is used in a sentence where you can tell which meaning the person is trying to get across to others. I can't really justify if the name is right or wrong but i can see where some people would take offense to a name that uses a word such as cancer.--BabyJ 16:04, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Ooh, I just had visions of someone (probably with english as a second language) using the recent "X goes Y" trend to come up with "Pubhog Goes Aids" (or worse, "Pubhog Gives Aids") for their pvp monk thinking "Plural of Aid". (And then you'd have someone put the latter on a N/Me epidemic-or-similar build and cause real trouble . . . .) IDK where 'pubhog' came from. --Star Weaver 16:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Just wanted to share my opinion.. If people see the word cancer, 95% will be thinking of the disease. Now Cancer Angel isn't a direct insult to someone, but imagine this: You loose your mom-dad-grandma as a direct result of a horrible cancer (worse, you get the horrible disease yourself), you are devastated, you get a grip of your live again and seek some relaxation on line. You bump into a guy who has the name Cancer Angel. Cancer makes you think of the horrible time you just went through, while an angel generally represents the good. I can imagine someone being very upset by this name, as it could hit you in the face. There's a lot of players out there, each with their own live, history and opinion. It's impossible to do good for all. While I myself am not offended in any way, I do understand some people getting very upset by a name like this. I think you need to be very careful with words that represent -devastating diseases, -dictators and their wars, -politics, -religions, - sexual orientation.. -- (Tribina / talk) 17:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

IMO, that's going a bit too far. I don't believe we need to be so worried about how one person's life may lead such person to see a particular word as something upseting - otherwise we would have to disallow the word "Dog", because someone could have just had lost his dog and reading such word would upset him.

Maybe more importantly, trying to hide what are common words (cancer, and as mentioned above also aids) just because they may make someone think of two diseases is, IMO, being too terrified of such diseases. Reminds me of those who just call cancer "that disease" or "the black disease" or even "plurimitotic syndrome" - it's just allowing the mystification of a disease that is part of life, like any other sickness. If only to educate people, I don't think such big efforts should be taken to hide those words. Erasculio 17:42, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I lost my father to cancer and I will admit to someone trivailising it by putting it in their name to be vaguely annoying, however that doesn't make it offensive. Just because my life experience makes me more sensitive to the use of that word than others shouldn't mean that others should be banned from using the word. At the end of the day its just a word and that's all it is. At that rate if your gran gets knocked down by a bus, no one should use the word bus in their name and if someone drowns in a river no one should use river in a name. If we take it to the extremes even Gaile would have to change her name incase anyone was ever killed in Gale force winds, it just all gets a bit ludicrous. -- Salome 18:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

[reset indent]The name should not be taken out of context. In a game where humans are mutated to the point of monsters and explode a virulent death, "cancer" as an offensive word is being a bit too touchy. A sexually transmitted disease might fall outside the purview that Guild Wars created, but surely cancer is not. It is risque if taken in one context, but harmless in others. I think SUpport was a bit too jumpy there: "I Give Cancer T U" = ban, "Cancer Angel" = something people have to put up with in an online game. --Ravious 18:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I don't find "Cancer Angel" offensive at all. I can see that some people could get personally upset or annoyed but that doesn't equal offensive. In order to be offensive here, the name would have to show resentment/hatred to people/groups. I don't see that here, just naming a character after a disease.

"AIDS Angel" on the other hand is different, because AIDS has a significant amount of social and political baggage attached to it that cancer doesn't. While cancer is seen as a general disease that could strike anyone, AIDS is often considered a "homo" disease (despite the fact that it too can strike anyone) because of it's early prevalence among gay males. Also the more recent pandemic in Africa should also be considered since "Africa" vs. "The West" can be problematic (see the recent controversy over Resident Evil 5). Thus any reference to AIDS should be examined in that light. --Valshia 19:01, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

thanks alot gaile. it's just that i don't know why, i've played that char for 5 months half a year, through nightfall, got 15k armor in prophesies, captured elites so i could sway, and now this happens. i do respect people who got someone close who've died in cancer, my grandmother died in cancer like 2 years ago, but still, the name itself isn't offensive and was never meant to be. and if the word were unacceptable it should've been locked from being used when u choose a name for ur character, shouldn't it? --Cursed Angel 00:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think it shouldn't be considered offensive. Cancer can be offensive to some people (it runs in my family, I would be someone to have every reason to feel offended), but it depends entirely on its use. A disease, in itself, is not offensive. In some nations and cultures they are used as swear words (various kinds of diseases are common profanities in Dutch, for instance), but they can be entirely absent as such in others. As far as I'm aware, "cancer" is not commonly used as profanity in English, and shouldn't be treated as such. Sure, it's a horrible disease, and some people are sensitive to being reminded of it, but should we avoid mentioning at all just to avoid hurting some people's feelings? Just to illustrate- I've lost many loved ones to the disease. I am in the process of losing someone very near and dear to me to this disease. Yes, this sucks. No, I'm not going to sit in a corner and cry just because someone said the word- not even if it were used as profanity.

Personal thoughts and feelings aside, the word has more than one meaning. I know I've made this point before, Gaile, here and elsewhere, but just for stress- if it's ambiguous, it should be considered on a case-by-case basis, with particular attention to the intended meaning. Dlck Dastardly, for instance, is perfectly acceptable. It's not offensive because it doesn't refer to any bodyparts, it refers to a well-known cartoon character (unfortunately, someone I know WAS in fact reported for it). Sure, "l" was used to replace "i" to get past the word block, but there was no malicious intent. I haven't tried this, but I suppose it would work the same way if I wanted to name one of my toons Charles Dickens- I'd probably have to resort to "Dlckens", gasphorrorohnoes! Offense! ;)

Cancer is a term recurring in many games, usually fantasy games that have their lore linked to the Zodiac. Is Cancer Angel offensive if the same player also has character names like, say, Virgo Angel or Saggitarius Angel? Of course not. It's all in the context. And for that matter, Guild Wars has many skills (look at the Necro line) relating to disease. Is it okay for ANet to refer to the Plague with skills like Plague Signet and Plague Touch? Yes, because it suits the context of the profession. And really, if Ulcerous Lungs were renamed to Cancerous Lungs or even just Tuberculosis, I really wouldn't kick up a fuss. -- Elv 11:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

There's a small difference between casting "Migraine" on someone and casting "Cancer" on someone, if there would be a hex called that. my cousin has migraine, he have to go off school like twice a week cuz it aches in his head, still not even he would find the migraine skill as offensive, hey it's just a word and so is cancer. if the name had been offensive it'd been blocked but i don't see the issue with this. --Blood Anthem 14:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think the idea stated here about context is true. This is a fantasy game, and if you look at Factions especially and the afflicted, the name Cancer Angel, isn't really offensive. Also as stated above, the actual location of the word provides a reasonable excuse to use the word, as opposed to U Die of Cancer, or something of the sort. -Warior Kronos 20:07, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, so by your standards Aids Angel (or any other life threatening disease) would be acceptable? Since after all the is a fantasy game. Some people are a little sensitive to the use of a life threatening disease name. So would it bother me to come across a person with the name "cancer angel"? Yes in a way it would. Would i report the name? No I wouldn't. But i just find it funny that people can use a name that is a deadly disease and its ok, but let someone use a name thats likely to show any amount of race/racisum, cultural belief/cult or whatever and watch that name get banned faster than you can blink an eye. --BabyJ 22:00, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The plague is also life threatening. It's made many, many victims in the past. Even so, you'll find "plague" used in skill names in the game itself. It fits the context, because they're linked to a profession (Necromancer) that's all about death and disease. If "plague" is acceptable to you, then I see no reason why cancer, in some cases, shouldn't be. As I said before, it's all about context. It's okay for skill names, because the purpose of these skills is to damage, to apply Disease andsoforth. So in that sense, naming a Necro something like Bringer Of Plague would be acceptable. Just read the whole post I made previously, please- it's all about context. Within the context of the game, it's acceptable. Ambiguous words especially (and yes, cancer is an ambiguous word) should be considered on a case-by-case basis before a ban should be considered. In the end, what matters is if it's appropriate within the context or not. I personally see no problem with a name like Cancer Angel. I WOULD have a problem with a name like Die Of Cancer. Offense is in the context, not always in the word. -- Elv 22:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Gaile asked how people felt about the name, and I'm sorry but that just how i feel about the name. I have seen other names that i didn't think was appropriate but I'm not a report happy person so i carry on my merry little way. I'm not saying the name should or shouldn't be temp banned for, thats for support to decide. I've seen alot less names than cancer angel get a ban and a few of those were for characters that were made since beta. Besides, if a character gets temp banned for their name, just suck it up change the name and carry on because obviously someone thought the name was in bad tastes.--BabyJ 02:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

People also have to remember that context can be ambiguous. With player names being limited to 19 characters, explicit context, that is context that can be understood simply by reading the name (something like, "Healer of the Dawn"), is something that can be very difficult to attain in Guild Wars. In most cases, the context of a name is only understood by that player and his or her friends; while a name may not be offensive to the player because he or she understands the context (something like an inside joke, for example), that same name may be offensive to someone else who isn't aware of the situation in which the other player named his or her character.

As a fairly recent example, a player with the gamer tag of "Richard Gaywood" was banned on XBox Live because someone reported him. However, even though that gamer tag was the player's actual birth name, he still had to change it because "the XBox Live community found it offensive." Now, this is one of those sticky situations where companies is "damned if they do, damned if they don't," but this shows the difficulty that those responsible for banning (or not) reported names face. Personally, I think that both Richard Gaywood and Cancer Angel are fairly tame and wouldn't report them, but sometimes it is in the company's interest to err on the side being strict. Kokuou 02:37, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

We had an issue even closer to home. A Guild Wars player had a name that could be (and unfortunately was) perceived as "creative spelling" for a pretty unpleasant word. The name was 100% legitimate, though, and it grieved me no end to have to tell the player that yes, we recognized his name was his name but with regret, due to how it might be/had been seen by some players, we had to ask him to rename the character. That discussion was a real eye-opener to me, particularly since I met the guy personally and he's one of the nicest people I've met (not to mention a brilliant player) and here I'd had to tell him "No" about the name. :( Sometimes you're darned if you do, darned if you don't. And sometimes, the best decision isn't 100% satisfying to any of those involved.

I am going to make that topic now... or should I make it a page? This is an issue we deal with every day, and I really love the feedback. -- Gaile 04:17, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

It's not a bad idea to have a page regarding this issue. I mean wiki has a lot of useless pages like Wammo, Imbagon & Noob, I don't see why not for a page about something as important as this. --MageMontu 09:28, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I can see the player's side and ANet's side both, so it's easy to see why a name such as Dick (despite the fact that it's a legitimate personal name) would create issues. That doesn't mean I'm in favour of a black and white approach, though, but I have good faith that under certain circumstances ANet might find a way to allow for some shades of grey. So yes, Gaile, I think some kind of policies page on reportable names wouldn't go amiss. It would be something to refer to when people are looking to make a report, or when they find themselves reported. Since it's about Support policies, it might be best if the main page was restricted to Dev editing, but that's something to look into once the page is set up.

Personally I'd start with the basic info, like the relevant bit of the Terms and Code of Conduct, and the appropriate way(s) in which a name can be reported. After that, maybe an explanation about how Support goes around banning certain names, just to still the rampant rumours that Support has some kind of automatic ban system. With that out of the way, an explanation of how ambiguity in character names is dealt with. This should give people a clear reference point that answers the most basic questions. (Perhaps include that incorporating the guild tag to create an offensive name that may otherwise go unnoticed does count as an offensive name. I sent an email with a question about that some time ago, and if I could bother to dig up your reply I could quote it, but I do recall that it was just as bannable. ;) ) As for Support itself, I do think it's always important to look at names case-by-case. I have a perfectly legitimate reason to report a character named Puki, because I know what it means in a certain language, and yes, this meaning might offend me. Most of the playerbase won't know this, however, and will likely never understand why it would offend me in the first place. I think the bigger picture is important- should everything that's reported be banned, because it hurt someone's feelings, or should there be some standard that the larger part of the playerbase can agree with? Personally, I'd try to find a way to go by the latter, difficult as it may be. :) -- Elv 09:51, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Gaile,can you help me?

hi ,I am weillz ,I still remember you? Encountered some troubles and need your help,thank you --Weillz 01:46, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

hello gaile! i need help~

hi ! my account has block!(Reference#080529-000532)and(Reference#080613-000336). Please take a little time! help me!!!--Mr.Yu 03:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think you need tell in courteously and clearly!--Bright亮月 06:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

my account do not sell items and gold!!i only traded with my friends small something!!--Mr.Yu 12:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Please talk to the Support Team and they will investigate this for you. -- Gaile 00:59, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

hello!gaile!My question has been closed!!Need your help,I know that very liberty,But I am a legitimate player.i very love GW~To my account, I talked with Support Team many times!But has not been the answer, the question was closed.--Mr.Yu 10:42, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Replacement of Armbrace

Hello Gaile, I wasn't sure where to put this. I was playing within the DoA and just got an Armbrace, my first and only, after many hours of play. A glitch or apparent misfunction occurred where the armbrace left my inventory. The armbrace was on the floor and was picked up by a player. After screening the chatlog and reporting this to Anet Support, the player was suspended. I sent many emails conversing my opinions to Anet about their no returns policies. Even though it was a confirmed rules violation, i cannot attain my Armbrace, or the money spent, or, more importantly, the hours used. I wondered if you would be able to do something about my lost item, because suspending a player (who is now an armbrace richer, no matter the length of suspension) and getting a thankyou from Anet isn't exactly what i was looking for.

Thanks in advance, Alduos The Brave (IGN)

Hi, Aldous. I'm sorry to hear what happened to you. Sounds like a scam, and the scammer was suspended, which is good. Unfortunately, we do not have the ability to create items or gold in any sense, not even in order to give them as legitimate replacement or reimbursement for items that were stolen. It's sad, I know, but it's also a very good thing because it prevents any suggestion of corruption on the part of those with such abilities, and more importantly, but not having that provision in the code, it prevents hackers from finding a way to access that same code and permanently trash the entire game economy. Mind you, we've never had a hacker get close to that sort of access, and Dwayna willing, we never will. But programmers are taught to build in safeguards and double-checks and to keep security at the forefront of their minds. If that means keeping us -- the good guys -- from doing something because it safeguards all players from them -- the bad guys -- doing irreparable harm, it is a good decision to make.

In addition, although I don't like to suggest it, there have been incidents in other games where players have claimed a loss and asked for reimbursement, but they've been working in collusion with others to, essentially, get free goods. (Hand off Sword of Incredible Mightiness to friend + claim a bug or scam + get new one = duped sword.) I am entirely convinced that is not your situation, and I do not mean to offend you or anyone else with my pointing out that sometimes this does happen. However, it is something that we're keenly aware of and must safeguard against, even while knowing that the limitation can be frustrating to both the player and those of us who would very much like to fulfill the request for replacement. I am very sorry, once again, that we can't replace your armbrace. -- Gaile 19:40, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Xunlai Tournament House

More than a month ago, I've registered myself for the Xunlai Tournament House. But I mispelled my e-mail. I asked the Support Center if the could change it for me or delete the account so I can make a new one. After 2 weeks...2 response. I sent another e-mail..2 weeks...it still hasn't been fixed..I was wondering what was going on and so I asked them..yet again..it still hasn't been fixed. I've couldn't participate with some MAT's which is disappoiting for me. I've send you also an e-mail, it contains all the details and the situation. If you have lost it, I can send it again, I have a copy of it.

I know, I should have double checked everything. But everybody can make a mistake and sometimes you make them. I think it would also be better if you are going to register yourself, that you have to enter your e-mail twice. To confirm it.

Please help me fix this problem, I don't know what to do anymore

Hello. I'm sorry to hear about the problem that you had. If you wrote Support, I would bet that it has been taken care of now. What happened is, our web programmer became a new father during June, and he took some well-deserved time off to stay with his family. He has returned now and he worked very hard this past week on rectifying the issues with the Xunlai Tournament House, such as account names, password questions, and bugs.

If your problem was not resolved -- and that would have been sometime between Wednesday and Friday of this week, so check your email for contact from Support -- please provide your Incident (or ticket) Number here and I will look into the matter. If it was solved, could you kindly post to that effect here? I always like to know the end of the story. :) -- Gaile 19:29, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello. I'm following up. Can you please tell me if your XTH issue was resolved? I don't see a name here, so I can't check my list of "resolved issues" and I sure want to be certain we've helped you. Thanks. -- Gaile 06:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Another support complaint

Yes, youve heard it before Gaile, but i believe something must be done. What do you do when someone swear at you through whispering? Cant u target the to report? No, you have to screen shot the speech, block out all people names except the person who you are reporting, then upload the image onto this site to show you. Cant you just make it so that you go into the whisper box of the person you wish to report, then type "/report", and choose why you are reporting them. Why not do this?

Anyway, I have been a frequent victim of swearing. Not for a while until today. I was just in Olafstead, PUGs for norn farm, then this came up:

Please can you do something to this guy, and if you possibly can, the report system, so I dont have to go through all the above instructions on uploading pictures, cause it annoying having to do it for EVERYONE who i need to report (a lot)

--Burning Freebies 19:51, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Uh, where's the swearing? *confused* --Star Weaver 19:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

@Star Weaver: Burning Freebies has the swear filter on. It comes up as the ---- in the image.

@Burning Freebies: If people are usually swearing at you maybe you're doing something wrong? -- scourge 12:09, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

@Scourge: I swear, I had never met this guy at all in my Guild Wars career. I called a team a bunch of noobs for doing norn farming in Normal mode, but that was only to the leader, who didnt have the same name.

@Gaile:Plase can you do something about this? Maybe recommending a better support system and reporting this guy would help. I tried to target him but he left quickly (like a criminal running from a crime). Please can yo help Gaile! We need a better report system cause im fed up of having to print screen every time i get sworn at (a lot). It so dam annoying! --Burning Freebies 13:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Burning Freebies: "I called a team a bunch of noobs for doing norn farming in Normal mode" <-- There's your problem, you started it. -- scourge 01:22, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

It would be nice to be able to report people outside your current district. I do not know that we can add that technology to Guild Wars, but I will inquire about it and find out if it's even remotely possible. There are some drawbacks, of course, but let me ask about it. -- Gaile 22:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps not putting things into limitations of districts, but rather online status would be better. For example you could report an online player for a chat related action. The reporter could designate what chat(s) the incident happened in during what time frame and ANet could look through logs, but I could imagine this much data crashing a server. --Elven Chaos 02:50, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Death Levelling Pets

Dear Gaile,

I have a question about death levelling pets in the Menagerie. I currecntly have a build with 3 heroes, where 2 heroes res quickyly and me and the third hero die constantly, due to a combination of Flesh of My Flesh, Superior Runes and a vampiric weapon. Is that allowed? The reason that I'm asking is that, although it's not a bot (because I use nothing besides GW itself), it does allow the game to play itself (see statement above). It it allowed to take advantage of the hero AI to automatically speed death level pets? 145.94.74.23 12:21, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I would say it's allowed, otherwise getting Legendary Defender of Ascalon would not be allowed either. Dark Morphon 14:34, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, well, it could go either way. Technically, with LDoA, you are not moving from a convieniently chosen location. When deathlevlling the pets, the heroes are actually 'fighting your battle'. I'd say it's allowed too, but I'd rather be certain. 145.94.74.23 18:42, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I was going to say no, it's the game playing itself... but... Dark is right about LDoA, they're the same thing. Could you not just add in BiP or something so that you're doing something? If the game could be playing itself but you are still at your keyboard playing anyway I don't think it's against the rules.

If you're actually playing, who really cares what your heroes are doing at the end of the day? A F K When Needed 20:58, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I do not think this would be considered a cheat and I can't see Support taking action on someone who did this. I will need a day or two to confirm, but from first glance -- unofficial answer here -- it appears acceptable. More later. -- Gaile 21:05, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why anyone can get banned for afking while heroes do all the work, as long as they're only using GW to do it. The Dragon Festival (AFK Weekend) is no different. ~Shard 21:14, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Heroes: Botting Made Legal Raine - talk 04:12, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, well, you're not doing anything there (at a very convienient location, but still). In this case, your heroes are actually doing something. Thank you for looking into it Gaile. 145.94.74.23 06:52, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

@Raine: Heroes can't walk from place to place without you walking there or putting a flag at that spot. Bot's can.

@Gaile: If it is confirmed to be unacceptable, then I would say to support to suggest to the Guild Wars Live Team to fix it so it isn't possible anymore :), this would be to protect the players who do not know it's unacceptable from beeing banned.

If it is acceptable, then no actions should be taken :p. Qaletaqa Hania 07:18, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually, heroes can farm in any location with unlimited mob spawns, like Ooze or, before the update, the elementals around the Sunspear Sanctuary. This requires no player input, and differs from conventional botting only in that it uses Guild Wars as the botting program. Raine - talk 21:03, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

@Raine: Do the Ooze duplicates drop any items, give XP, and/or give any reputation points? I haven't payed any attention to that, if they do, then it should be fixed so that they do not (I already have 3 possible fixes in my head lol, none beeing that hard to implement). If they don't do any of those then there is no problem. Qaletaqa Hania 02:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) After checking with the Live Team, I can assure you that death leveling of pets in the manner described -- that is, without cheats or bots -- is perfectly fine. -- Gaile 04:46, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

@Qaletaqa: they do give experience (and, presumably, rep); each counts as an individual spawn. Though I haven't specifically checked to see if they drop items, I'd imagine that they don't, based on the assumption that drops are distributed at instance creation. Raine - talk 05:11, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Also:

""As soon as the game plays itself – as soon as you can walk away and the computer continues to play – you’re in breach of the Rules of Conduct and you are subject to account sanctions, which can involve an account suspension or an account termination."". Raine - talk 18:30, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

That's why I asked Raine, and Gaile checked and this is Anet's answer. So thank you Gaile for your time, I'm glad there's no more confusion on this issue. 145.94.74.23 19:31, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Nice catch Raine. I forgot about that statement.~>Sins WDB 00:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

My question was about that very statement, so I don't see why it's such a great catch from Raine. 145.94.74.23 13:34, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

That must be the above statement you were referring to. I never checked to see what it was, good catch IP! =P ~>Sins WDB 17:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Hehe, thank you very much. I suppose it wasn't that clear and I wanted to clarify it (but I can always try fishing for compliments). Anyway, this issue has been adressed so it can be archived. Thank you all for your tme, effort, answers and interest. 145.94.74.23 20:53, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Help My Friend

HI Great Gaile Gray

My Hong kong friend's gw account has been blocked in error. But he didn't know why the reason to blocked .....

Updata my friend sent to PlayNc Support information:

Reference: #080610-000638

Product: Guild Wars

Category: Account Support General

Date Created: 06/10/2008 03:18 AM

Last Updated: 06/10/2008 03:28 AM

Date Closed: 06/10/2008 03:28 AM

Status: Closed

Character Name: 鬼s靈s精

---

Print Question Blocked Accounts in error

Discussion Thread Customer (<EDIT>) 06/10/2008 03:18 AM hi

My guild wars game accounts were blocked in error 045. I have a good job and never buy or sell the gw coin... I almost long time to worked and played gw at few time. One more check my accounts why blocked 045 plz

I believe my account have been blocked in error

Accounts id name: <EDIT> ign: 鬼s靈s精 e-mail: <EDIT>

thanks all

i like gw very much

Hello. Please ask your friend to continue to work with Support on this matter. They will be able to tell him or her what happened, and if the Support Team needs me to assist them, they will ask for my help and I will do my best to assist everyone. Thank you. -- Gaile 22:50, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

reporting people

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Gaile, just checking but am I allowed to report a player for getting a CoF run and refusing to pay. -- Salome 03:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thats scamming. The Scam page says to do the following:

1. Generate proof of the scam. The PlayNC support site recommends that you include the following information about the scam:
   1. Produce evidence of the scam. This is best done using a screen capture. Press the Chat button (bottom left corner) or the ` key (under Esc). This will bring up the chat log and you can scroll to where the scam took place.
   2. The name of the player that has committed the scam.
   3. The area in which the scam took place.
   4. The time of the scam, including your time zone.
   5. The character you were playing as at the time.
   6. Any other information you feel is relevant.
2. Proceed to the PlayNC support page (http://www.plaync.com/us/support/)
3. Choose your location/language and proceed to the Guild Wars page (http://www.plaync.com/us/support/prod_48.html)
4. You need to create an account. Go to the login page and fill in the required information. After submitting you will receive a verification e-mail. After verifying your account you can log in through the same page.
5. Fill in the question/report form using the Ask a Question page and submit it to ArenaNet.

Hope I helped. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 05:16, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks mate. :) -- Salome 12:03, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Lol PlayNC support wont do nothing mate, there preety lame when it comes to scamming. Ive been scammed with the same problem and all they sayed to me is that they will do nothing and you have to put trust in the player to pay you. (so preety much its your fault). Richi2k8

oh how incredibly unhelpful of them. They should just give us a kick command then. -- Salome 17:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

The Support staff will take action if they receive reports of repeated scamming by an individual. After all, why would they have a process set up for such reports, and such specific details about how to obtain help, if they didn't intend to address the issues? They cannot get back your money; will not run your character to a desired location. But scammers--given enough proof of their misdeeds--will find themselves with a block or even a ban on their account. -- Gaile 20:46, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Errr.. Gaile it seems that the support staff don't agree with your viewpoint. Here's a direct copy of the email I received, it was very nice but in essence says "we can't do anything":

Hello (name deleted),

Thank you very much for contacting the PlayNC Customer Support Team.

Transactions and other player interactions that take place in the game world - such as those involving “runs” to different locations - often involve a certain amount of trust. Occasionally, some players may fail to live up to their end of an agreement, or act in a less than honest manner. Unfortunately as such acts our outside of our control, the Support Team is unable to force players to live up to their end of the bargain or replace any items or in-game currency that may have been lost. I apologise for any frustration that this may cause.

However, the Support and Development teams are always looking for ways to make trades and other transactions more secure. For example, the Trade window now notifies players if an offer has been changed, with a red warning message. Please let us know if you have any suggestions for how transactions such as this can be made more secure, as the Development team looks closely at player feedback when making changes to the game.

If you feel that the player in question has violated the User Agreement or Rules of Conduct in any other way than previously described, please let us know and I will investigate the issue further.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation, and please feel free to contact us again if you encounter any other problems.

Regards,

GM Darren

PlayNC Customer Support

NCsoft Europe

http://eu.plaync.com

It was a very nice email and all but as I said, in essence just said "we can't help, sorry". -- Salome 20:55, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't necessarily mean that they're not doing anything about it just because we get an impression like that. I think a small review of the tone and what's in these semi-automated responses is in order though. :/ — Poki#3 21:19, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it was automated and Darren basically says that they cant do anything,as it's not their job to make sure people pay for runs. -- Salome 21:21, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

I will check with NCE about this to learn more about their practices. Although we have a big multi-team meeting each week and we discuss support matters every day, it's possible that over time a policy or practice can come to be a little different between the teams. I would like to be able to assure you that we're all on the same page, so we'll all discuss that very soon.

I just checked with our North American Support Team lead, and he assures me that his team watches for patterns of misbehavior and gathers account information in order to mark the accounts of scammers. We don't jump into the middle of every transaction disagreement -- there are too many, and a lot of such disagreements cannot be clearly resolved because both players argue a different position on the matter. Sometimes, the records and logs do not give a preponderant weight to either side. And in looking at the different ways that scammers impact players, I think we'd all agree that run scams are not as critical as, say, a player getting scammed out of 100 plat. (For while we can't return the plats, we sure can try to deal with the scammer!) However, "repeat offenders" are likely to be noted over time and handled differently than a single incident.

Thanks for pointing this out to me. :) -- Gaile 21:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, can't you just add a Scam option to the report system? it would be faster then having to send an email all the time somebody scams you(I've had alot of them, but I always let them pass because there was not such an option).. Or make a system where players can trade there money when they reach a point.. Example: you run to Sanctum Cay, then you enter that inside a box, where the other player needs to agree and pay the money, the money is paid as soon as you reach that location... I think it's a bit difficult to do this, but it might help for the running part... PS:plz answer to my question(scroll up ;) ) - Dutch Sunshine 145.53.242.142 22:35, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Adding a "Scam" feature to the /report system just isn't feasible, since there are many types of scams and we need additional information from the outset so that we know what we're looking for. And while "Running" is an acceptable part of the game, at least in the minds of most of the player community, and while the development team has no objection to running, it is not a design element. Therefore, taking the time to design, artify, localize, and program extra features to support it might be a little odd. :) -- Gaile 00:44, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

The devs can add an area where we can give a short description of the situation. Although that could be a problem if the scammer changes location/district, although that could be changed by giving us something like, 5 mins time from when we type /report to the time to send it (where it could work even if they changed location) --MageMontu 07:28, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

As Gaile said, ingame support exists for all the intended styles of play. However running was never intended to be one of these things. So although anet aren't against it, investing coding into protecting a mode of play which they never intended to reach popularity would be somewhat odd.

I just hope this means that anet have realised that despite their efforts, some degree of running will always be evident in GW and probably in gw2 to and thus maybe make arrangements to protect runners in gw2 with some type of pre pay system that secures both the runner and the person being ran. -- Salome 13:37, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually Salome, ANet added in running as an intended design element, as Gaile herself said [2] (second question/reply). However, it would be hard to keep track of paid fee's and everything. 76.171.59.206 02:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

You know, that interview was so long ago, I forgot what the designers said about running! I had thought I might be obliged to make a distinction, in the here and now, between "allowing," "not disallowing," and "adding as a design element within the game" based on comments made some time ago. In truth, I thought I remembered that running was more a player invention, like "death leveling" in Pre-Searing Ascalon. But there in front of me are words that were given me by the Design Team back in 2005, so I guess I won't quibble with "working as intended" after all. :D

But yes, tracking fees paid, proper and timely renumeration, and all the other aspects of a business transaction of that sort would be an enormous task and don't seem feasible for Guild Wars. -- Gaile 07:18, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Yo i have no clue what i am doing, but here goes nothing, i dont even know is this is going to make it on the board, but i got my account stole, i went to get something to eat, and when i tryed logging back on it wouldent let me, i know the person who did it, i got a pm his name was "Piere Love" got any info on how i can get my account back? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:70.234.208.20 (talk).

Giant Support Check My Game Course Please

Hello Gaile

I am TACO

My monk made mission to chapter 1 Crystal Desert on that day.

I stayed in the Augury Rock had many mins for gift of the traveler.

Find many monks in and out. so you think me boter too?

NOT REAL!!

I just only farmed the gift of the traveler for Hydra drop the Dessicated Hydra Claw.

I never used illegal third party program because i cannot and what was bot program?

Tell me!!

So only verified that i made main mission to there.

You saw me think like bot in error 045.

To giant support GM check game course again

Thank You!!

My ticket number 090609-000067

1) I don't even understand what you're asking here.. so I bet others will have the same thoughts. You might want to clarify it. 2) You've all ready sent this in once. Gaile will get to you when she can or wait until TS processes your ticket. Magic Talk 22:10, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

It's not that bad, he created an account, created a monk, got to the crystal desert, farmed the Nicholas drop at the time (hydra claw), ended up getting banned for using a bot. The little part in the middle just says that he saw a bunch of other monks going in and out while he was playing. The most important part is the ticket number, Gaile can use that to find out any additional info anyway. Freedom Bound 22:18, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah Magic... do you know if that person is a native English speaker?

You are slightly coming accross as an ass coming from me, and I'm more guilty of that than most

But still :P A F K When Needed 20:25, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

1) Fixed your indent. 2) Yeah.. I usually do.. but it's usually unintentional. :S 3) /agreed :P Magic Talk 23:34, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

My Role, Appeals, & More

I thought I'd catch you up on what I'm doing, about how I work with the Support Teams to help players. First of all, as I have said before, I don't want to be seen as some sort of "Shortcut to Service." It's not as if a player can come to me and get insta-help, like a "Front of the Line Pass" or something. :) Yes, I do help Support with some of the pesky issues, but I'm not the "Court of Appeal" for banned accounts or other support issues. If you have a support-related issue, get "into the system" by submitting a ticket. From there, any and all of use who need to assist you will do so.

The Support Team deals with stolen accounts, bug reports, technical issues, shared accounts, bots, family item and account squabbles, scamming issues, lost credentials, unacceptable behavior, reports of bad coffee, and dozens of other issues every single day. Incidents come to Support, team members research and resolve them, and all is well. (Oh wait, reports of bad coffee are supposed to come directly to me, sorry. ;) ) In short, though, the team is faced with a monumental task, yet in the vast majority of cases, they manage to arrive at the best resolution possible.

We know the support system isn't as easy to use as it could be. For instance, I think we should make it clearer how a player contacts us. Happily, NCsoft recently hired a highly-qualified new team member to work on improving the way you submit tickets, to make it easier and faster to get help. However, players still need to contact Support first for all issues. One exception: Exploits can be sent to Support or if you're a GWW member you can email them directly to me using the link on the left of this page.)

Support may ask me to get involved with a matter for any number of reasons: To discuss potential policy changes, to get new account/GM tools, to help a player with a complex or potentially unresolvable matter, and so forth. For example, today, I spent two hours researching a single account issue they referred to me. I'm always happy to help, and I think that we've been doing great work together to the benefit of individual players, the company, and the community at large. And... that is what Support is all about!

About Account Bans for RMT Activities

Support bans accounts involved in RMT (real-money trading) activities. Their accuracy rate is remarkably high when you consider there are more than 5,000,000 Guild Wars accounts and a large number of RMTs, too. A number of RMT bans involve stolen accounts, so that makes reviews even more complicated. Still, Support digs through the facts and takes care of matters very well, whether it's the initial action on a gold seller's account, an issue with a gold buyer, or the matter of an appeal.

By the time an account is blocked for RMT (gold selling) activity, the account has been looked at both through pulling a few dozen points of data and through a review by a team member. This assures a "human review" rather than a ban based on a few numbers on a spreadsheet. Of course, no process is 100% accurate, but we'll do our darnedest to fix any errors as quickly as possible and we will (and do) reinstate accounts that are mistakenly blocked or banned.

One of the Support leads told me that lately they've been seeing a number of RMT appeals saying things like "I spoke with Gaile -- you must reinstate my account." Or "I know somebody at ArenaNet, take care of this immediately." (Those are direct quotes, btw, and they come from people I don't know and who have never contacted me. :-/ ) There's really no need to say such things, everyone is given our best effort. Simply remember to use the Support system. When you do, the whole team will work hard to resolve the matter, and we'll do so in the player's favour whenever possible. Thanks for your understanding. -- Gaile 23:51, 28 June 2008 (UTC)