Talk:Nicholas the Traveler/Archive 4

Archive now

Archive now and start October with a clean slate? ^ ^ Sardaukar 15:08, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Good call :D -- Wyn talk 15:13, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I think we can archive again, too start november with a clean slate. The discussion is taking way to much place--Wysth 12:01, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Where's Nick

Anyone seen or heard anything about Nick yet? He should have moved about 20 minutes ago. --Hawkins 15:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Diviner's Ascent, closest teleport to elonas reach. topaz crests.--70.134.72.225 15:59, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

That's what GWGuru's saying. Can anyone confirm? Karate Jesus 16:00, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

SS's are up on Guru. It's confirmed. Karate Jesus 16:00, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Appears to be 1 per gift. Karate Jesus 16:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed. Blood Red Giant Mani Mortus 16:03, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) 10-4! --24.98.6.70 16:59, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

4 weeks of easy prophecies Nick Justice 17:42, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

This has now become SILLY - Could someone please explain to me why for 5 straight weeks now he has remained in Prophecies? Some of us don't have that part of the game and all though I do have the other 3, it seems those of us without Prophecies are now completely ignored!71.175.212.108 21:21, 5 October 2009 (UTC) it doesnt matter there will always be people with games

The lack of variation in campaigns is starting to get tiresome. I could have sworn he knew where Cantha and Elona was before. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:07, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd see this as a reasonable defense towards him having no true pattern to his movements. Also, there are festivals I've missed because I ONLY had Prophecies. Which is less fair? ‹Lady Chani› 02:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

The games don't provide equal benefits, so why should Nick? Prophecies-owners have access to an extra title; NF & EotN owners have access to heroes; Factions owners have (theoretical) access to discount merchants. The z-bounties favor eotn owners (nearly 60% of zoin values); prophecies has only 6/66 bosses (less than 6% of zoin values). The Nick-advantage for Prophecies is relatively slim: about 7k/week at the current market price of GotT... so it might be tiresome to see Nick in the same campaign repeatedly, but it's only mildly unfair. Calculations: over 25 weeks, Proph owners could visit Nick an extra 7 times. ( 7 visits * 5 gifts/visit * 5k/gift ) / (25 weeks) = 7k/week.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

As stated, it's natural for the different campaigns to offer different kinds and amounts of content. If you want more, buy more. Arshay Duskbrow 04:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm happy. My mule acct. is Prophecies-only. :D Rose Of Kali 11:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I am fine with this,too. And as said above, if there is no real pattern in Nicholas travels, there still might be the chance of him staying in other campaigns just as long, evening things out. So kind of early for complaints in my opinion. ~ Dragon 11:32, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I do believe its a little off on the balance between the 3 campaigns. However theres no deneying prophecies is HUGE and the number of different monsters matches that. The TRAVELER's gifts is a reward for not only being able to kill monsters but also for the number of campaigns you have commited into. Seriously if you consider yourself a GW fan then not having all 3+1 campaigns is kinda silly. Dont think they were keen on making the same mistakes with gifts as they did z-keys. Justice 18:09, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Where do you get 7k Per week? Gifts do mostly ranger CHEAPER than that. *laughs* I say stop complaining, because it could be worse. Could be no more gifts, no more traveler, etc. Besides we are FORGETTING that he IS from Prophecies!!!! All I can say is just cool your fussy heals and be HAPPY this all even EXISTS. Thanks and good luck complaining/bitching - folks. 173.23.84.231 03:08, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Well said, 173. I'm not "happy" about Nick being in proph all the time, but that is only because I do not enjoy that game. --Bestat Talk to me! 10:22, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I really don't mind. In fact, I'm okay with it since those areas of Prophecies are pretty much forgotten (no lore-pun intended). He was in Factions which isn't really that big, in Elona all over the place. In Prophecies there are SO many great, great areas that are only visited by the ones who do missions and quests or HM-ers. That, or maybe he's just boat sick. Markus Clouser 10:39, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Or, Nick is home sick. And boat sick. xD. --Bestat Talk to me! 10:46, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

lol ~ Dragon 12:03, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Confirmation that Nicholas is not broken, and that he will be traveling again soon. And also, that he's a wizard, I think. -- FreedomBound 19:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Nick likes links

Wynthyst, how about that link to "Nick Speaks" that you mentioned before Archive 3? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә & ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:27, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't see why that would be a problem, you could even make your own Nick Page that looks similar, with minor key differences. Thrain | talk 21:05, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I may do that, that would be kinda fun! Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә & ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:37, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think Wyn will mind the link, she supported it. But I also don't think she will put it in for you. :P Looking forward to the new page. :) Rose Of Kali 09:04, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Just create the page, and then put the link at the top of this one... I don't have a problem with it, I just didn't know what page to link to. -- Wyn talk 19:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, as long as WYN doesn't mind, it must mean everything is dandy, huh? Who gives a shit what other people think. de Kooning 20:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Well I wasn't going to put it up to suffer a shitstorm if the offer was retracted/forgotten. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә & ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I have nothing against you. But if this link gets put up. I will bitch and moan. de Kooning 20:32, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Why? It will be in Alice and Sven's userspace. Why would having a link to it on this page make you pitch a fit? It is something lots of people seem to enjoy. At least having it on a separate page, you only have to read it if you want to, rather than having it "in your face" here on the talk page. -- Wyn talk 20:34, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Regardless of how many people hate it or love it. A link on a mainspace talk page to fanfiction is highly inappropriate. IMO, there is no room for compromise here. You don't see other users posting up links in other talk pages with their fanfics, do ya? Hmm? This shows extremely bias favoritism. Alice can have whatever he wants on his page. But why should there be a link on this talk page. If people enjoy his little stories, they can click the watch button or bookmark it. But NIMBY. de Kooning 20:55, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, he'd also be able to just post a topic here with a link to it each time the page gets archived. And you saying there is no room for compromise just defeats the entire purpose of discussion. On a wiki there should ALWAYS be room for compromise. -- Wyn talk 20:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I would be fine with a "permanent" section (one that won't get archived) on this talk page that links to the fan fiction stories. poke | talk 21:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

So what should I do?

Create your Nick Speaks page in your userspace, and then just link it at the top. -- Wyn talk 22:08, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Either link (the one in the trivia, or at the top of this page) works for me. poke | talk 22:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Does no one disagree with this blatantly show of preferential treatment? Am I truly in the minority in this? de Kooning 22:10, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Super cool. It's fairly out of the way under trivia, so I'll erase the one that I put on this talk page. There are a lot of people who don't like my stories. And why is it preferential? Was anyone else denied the right to have a reference to their parody here? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә & ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the link should be on the talk page rather than the main page, but I don't really give a rat's ass one way or another. —Jette 22:13, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I like the phrasing, non-canonical. I think a link at the top of this page would be fine.

One of the reasons that Nick generates a lot of interest is that he's the only feature that changes every week. 99% of the game remains the same (outside the occasional update). Of the 1% that changes, we have figured out a pattern; so, the articles can remain (relatively) static. Nick, on the other hand, continues to defy our predictions and stimulate our curiosity. The Nick Speaks theory of a good-man-gone-nuts in the madness of post-Searing is as valid and sustainable as any other hypothesis put forth to date. At this moment in time, it's not yet fiction; it's entirely possible that Nick's next appearance will support this point of view (I highly doubt it; then again, I would never have predicted Nick remaining in Prophecies for 5 weeks in a row.)

As soon as there's enough data available to allow us to be sure that there's no more to the Nick story than meets the eye, I am likely to support restricting speculation to the nearly certain rather than the vaguely possible. In the meantime, the backyard seems big enough to handle a lot of opinions.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 22:20, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

John Hargrove has commented on these stories in archive 2, saying they're inaccurate to his intentions for Nick. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә & ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

This is a compromise that was arrived at when the Nick speaks sections were removed from this talk page. As it is a feature that had gained a following, I do not see the harm. DeKooning, this is not giving you the green light to create whatever bogus pages you wish. If you wish to post links to your fanfiction pages that you are spontaneously generating I recommend you discuss it on the appropriate talk pages. I have removed the link from the mainpage trivia section, but replaced the link on this talk page that you removed. -- Wyn talk 22:50, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I was the one that removed the link when I realized someone put it in trivia initially. I think... fatigue does wonders on your memory. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә & ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 23:03, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

UNBELIEVABLE. So in other words, if you are someone with a following, you can get special permanent links put in the talk page. But if you are a nobody (i.e. me), you are a fucking troll and need to just shut the fuck up. de Kooning 23:10, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

No, you need to discuss it on the talk page rather than just doing it. If people want it, fine, if not, then no. The fact that having a following that will want it is however a plus. -- Wyn talk 23:18, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

(Resetting Indent)It also helps that he's been doing it on one person, and only one page. I would say, that if you make satirical stories about certain npcs' mental wellness, and get a following on your stories, Then you might be able to get links on their respective talk pages. If, however, you are just creating pages like there's no tomorrow, and not putting any thought into them, I don't see why you would be allowed too. Thrain | talk 23:22, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

ACTUALLY, it was discussed. Look in the archive. And if you COUNT the opinions, it actually comes out to 4 to 3 in favor of keep it OFF the talk page. BUT, oh that means nothing. de Kooning 23:26, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

The link was offered as a compromise because there were 3 people that wished it to stay. Consensus does not equal majority, it means coming to something that everyone can live with. -- Wyn talk 23:31, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

And what? It was given like 3 hours for people to weigh in? Was it even GIVEN a chance for other people (people who don't spend waking hours on this goddamn wiki) to comment on? Hmm? de Kooning 23:35, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Um, no, the discussion started on the 29th of September, and wasn't archived until the 5th of October. I would say that's a bit longer than 3 hrs. -- Wyn talk 23:38, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I say it needs more time. Give it 'til the next Nick change and I'll stop my bitching. Or do you not compromise with people like me? de Kooning 23:59, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I think the problem people were having was the fact that every week a new section was added which was polluting legitimate discussion and clogging recent changes. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 00:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I dont wanna be a pain in the ass or something but Kooning i really dont understand you why do you have such a problem with a link on the top of a page? I mean if other people like it and are happy about it stop bitching. You dont have too use the link dont have to read the link just scroll past it like I do. And if i want too follow the link I can always go back. that had too be said

Alica I say it again it is a very nice page you came up with and I think this way you're story's have the place they entitled to. --Wysth 06:40, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Since comments have been requested: Move notes are standard practice. If material used to be one one talk page, and was moved to another, you link the move so people can find it. Usually via the {{moved}} template, but that doesn't matter. It's normally kept until the next archiving.

We don't, however, use the talkpage for ducmentation. That's the job of the Trivia section of the article, if the item has sufficient notability. Backsword 07:10, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

You give an inch and people take a mile. That's why. First, it'll be a little harmless link. Then an utter collapse of order. And I ask to you, and other fans, why can't you just bookmark OR watch Alice's Nick page? Why should I and other visitors to this talk page be subjugated to this? Just to be clear, I am opposed to a permanent link on this talk page. If there is a link, it should disappear when archived per Backsword's comment's above. As for being on the main page, trivia - I just disagree with it being of a sufficient notability. For example, the trivia link in Holy Haste. I would consider that of sufficient notability. It exists OUTSIDE of this wiki. It is its own entity. It has an audience NOT limited to wiki users. And the audience is significantly larger. Is it now clearer, why I oppose this? de Kooning 14:42, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes and I love your gigantic assumptions that a link will cause complete disorder, the statement that everyone is "subjucated" to some kind of cruelty, and that one fan work is more notable than another fan work. If anything now we have a reason to note this under trivia (which would be FARTHER out of sight on that page than it would be on the top of this one). Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 15:00, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

dude... it's a link... HTML is full of em... 65.6.156.101 15:02, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'm guessing that a lot of people that look at this page once, get their gifts, and are done with it, would never even notice the link in the talk page. The only people what would notice it would be users who want to comment on Nick's current whereabouts, or are looking for Aliceandsven's Nick Dialogue. I am in favour of keeping it here on the talk page. Thrain | talk 15:08, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

In either location it is completely out of the way. The stories were moved becuase you didn't like them here and they didn't belong here, and a compromise was met. Those opposing this are the ones trying to take a mile. This is trivial, regardless of policy, and while I see reasons for objection, I see no IMPORTANT reasons. No one is stealing from you or doing you an injustice, so don't steal from people who bother to put time into their schedule to GIVE the community something. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 17:09, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I love how you made this personal. "No one is stealing from you or doing you an injustice, so don't steal from people who bother to put time into their schedule to GIVE the community something." And thanks for accusing me of stealing from you. And the implication I do not give to the community, but yet you do. de Kooning 17:26, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I am for Alice as I think a Link would suffice and not really cause much problems. Sadly, it seems as if De Kooning is trying to make this into a big issue. The Conscious has been reached by the people. Sorry you didn't get involved with that. So this is the best solution that was decided possible. I am among several others in here that don't 'Have' a 'problem'. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 17:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention, Aliceandsven has given alot more to the community than you at this point in time. Thrain | talk 17:37, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Anyone else wanna rag on me? Do it while it's hot! Come people. Take a shot! de Kooning 17:39, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh for goodness sakes, just get over it. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 17:43, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Thrain, you're completely wrong. This and this is what you should be looking at. - Reanimated X 17:50, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Enough already. This is not a rag on DeKooning fest, or who has given more to the community. I personally don't understand DeKooning's complete and utter inability to accept this compromise as being acceptable, but he has. So fine, we give it another week of having this discussion on the RFC. No more NPA, no more mudslinging. DeKooning, please tell us WHY you are so adamantly opposed to having a simple link to this at the top of this talk page. -- Wyn talk 17:54, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

"A talk page is where discussions or comments regarding the corresponding page takes place" from GWW:TALK with emphasis added. That is why. de Kooning 18:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

doesn't explain why a link can't be added. I still don't understand your reasoning. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 18:10, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

So you'd rather have the link in the Trivia section of the main page? We can do that, though more people were against that previously, but if that's what you are leaving it up to, then that's where it should go. I believe the popularity of the material amongst users of this wiki is enough "notability" to justify it as there are no guidelines that specify exactly what criteria need to be met for Trivia. -- Wyn talk 18:20, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

It should not be in the talk page, period. On the trivia, however, is open to debate. For which I am against. de Kooning 18:31, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Honestly, It does not state in that GWW: Talk that no LINK should be on the talk page period. It just states no links to pages that spam, etc. and I don't see Alice's page as a Spam. I'm for it here. I'm for fan fiction of people on here to be placed here. To me, it's an honor thing. Because it's not every day every one writes 'fiction'. I write Star Trek, but not Guild Wars. I don't think there should be a problem with it on the talk page. I agree with others, if people don't like it; they don't have to click on it. It can be ignored, much easier than the main nick page. Not that many check out talk pages as much as main pages. I think a link should be here as Alice has already contributed stories to here and have attracted fans who may not know the 'watch' thing or not.♥ Ariyen ♀ 19:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

There is a significant difference between a wiki and a wikia. The Main space is for documenting the game. That means that fan fiction cannot be placed here. Period. - Reanimated X 19:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

No doubt there. I agree to no fan fiction, it's self. However, I don't oppose a link. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 19:48, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

DeKooning, I'm sorry for the personal approach but I'm only human and you're going above and beyond to display your dissent. I'm not trying to do anything wrong so it becomes a thorn in my foot to read. From your excerpt, it's a twist to say that nothing else is allowed when it only says discussions or comments take place here. Regarding notability, this is only hear-say but one or two people have told me Alt Nick has become a weekly thing for their guilds to track. Reanimated is correct, and that's why the original stories have been moved in the first place. And finally, Holy Haste has a direct link to fan fiction on mainspace... In fact, the page contained in the link has a Donation button for Paypal. From what I can see, there have been no issues raised about THAT link since the page began. It's even under Trivia. So what is wrong with the compromise here, it's a harmless attempt to bring more volume of content to users, and I'm not asking for money... Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:17, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Do you guys know how much drama and problems you all stirred up removing his stuff from the talk page in the first place? If you would have let it roll on things would be tame. Hell..I remember comming to the talk page at the beginning of each week to see the story and then the rest of the week the talk page would either be dead or discuss something else until the next week. There was never any harm comming from his stories, the only harm was done was people moaning about him being a troll. If they can't take a funny story like a grain of salt on a page of text on the internet AND spend every waking hour here to bitch further about it, the world is ending in 2012 fo sho'.. there is something seriously wrong with this world. - Chrisworld 20:18, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

As much as I agree with some of what you said there are still policies in place that demand things by default, no matter what the circumstances are. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 20:21, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'm sorry but I'm against a link on the main page to anyones fanfic. I do see De Koonig's point, in that the purpose of this wiki is to document the game, not to then supplement factual knowledge with fiction which has been expressly stated to be in opposition to official anet lore and the purpose of the talk page is to discuss the page its related too, not to give scope for wider marginally related topics to be added. That being said I honestly don't mind people adding a wee topic to the talk page, with relevant links to relevant fan fiction on it. It keeps everyone happy and it's not too intrusive. Even if people en masse wanted to follow this example, I again wouldn't mind every talk page having a wee "Relevant Fan Fiction" topic, with users posting links to their fan fiction on it. (as long as it was directly relevant to the page in question) It would just be something which added to the sense of community here while not being intrusive to those wishing to use the page. I would however like to stipulate that if a link is included on the talk page here, that the topic not then be used to discuss the fan fiction or how great/bad people think it is, as that should be reserved for the talk page of the fan fiction itself IMHO. -- Salome 20:23, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Let me just be clear. I'm done with this thing. I've made my point as clear as I possibly can. I have nothing further to add. All I did was express my opinion and respond to the people who are confused why my position is what it is. Apparently that warrants other people to butt fuck me as they wish. This is my last post on this page about this issue. Please direct any further sodomy to my talk page. de Kooning 20:30, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I would think a one-line link would be less intrusive than a topic with a header and all. And a link without a topic would sort-of divert an urge for someone to discuss it on the talk page, because it would be a link and not a topic, if you get what I'm trying to mean. And it's not supplementing anything. We're not trying to tack anything on as official or necessary to the spectrum of Nick, it's just trivia. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:32, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Apart from that without a topic it's just a hanging link, which due to its unique nature would lead people to click it who aren't interested in your fan fiction. With a clearly stated topic heading, its clear what it is, it uses existing wiki template practice and it doesnt stand out from the rest of the page, which it shouldn't do. Thus I am against just having a random hanging link at the top of a page. If you want the link here I don't mind, but we should be drawing a working consensus while at the same time sticking with wiki formatting guidelines and in general random hanging links are frowned upon. -- Salome 23:14, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Alrighty. I still hold that a trivia link would be fine as long as it explicitly states it's not official so people aren't mislead. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 23:22, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Sorry I don't agree with that, the main page should be for official info and not for fan fiction. Trivia should inform the reader, such as if a skill name is a reference to a line from a film, or some such. It should not however act as an avenue of advertising ones own fan fiction. I'm not trying to be an arse here and I'm really not against you posting the link on the talk page but I really would prefer that the main space pages aren't cluttered with needless links. -- Salome 23:33, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Alrighty x2. So is there some wiki-magic we can use to keep with formatting guidelines, without promoting discussion here and at the same time keeping it non-intrusive? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 23:54, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Salome, there are other instances where there are links to fan fiction in the Trivia section. I also oppose making a permanent topic on the talk page. If you can't live with a simple one line link as we had before, then I say it should be added to the Trivia section. This really isn't as earth shattering an issue as everyone is making it. This is a wiki, formatting guidelines are GUIDELINES, they are not commandments set in stone, they are recommendations. It seems we get one person to compromise, and someone else crops up with these absolutely ridiculous objections. -- Wyn talk 01:26, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I have to agree with Salome. Links from main page articles to fanfiction just don't belong on the wiki (not even on a trivia section), since our main purpose is to document the game, and not document the fantasies of the users (or, do you want to see a link to that "Zhed" story?). Also, i am not entirely happy with allowing a perma-link on the talk page to fanfiction either (since it took us long enough to change the mentality of the wiki to a "talk pages deal with articles, not with topics" mentality).

Fanfiction belongs to userspace at most, and should stay there. There is no need document-wise to make it accessible from main space articles, nor are they relevant from a wiki point of view to make them accessible on talk pages from those related articles.

(added) Since i see you are concerned with how popular those stories are within the community (aka, those "3 people"), we can always create a link (perma-link if you wish) on GWW:PORTAL. That is visible enough as far as the community concerns.--Fighterdoken 01:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

As Salome has stated, the purpose of this wiki is to document the game, NOT to play host to random fanfics, especially not on the mainspace. Post it on guru, in your own userspace, but seriously, don't open a gigantic can of worms where some users are allowed to post fanfics and others aren't. Jennalee 11:06, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm so lost. you guys want them to have their own mainspace page to post on the portal? But yet you guys won't allow links? What the hell kind of idea is that? Makes no sense and really doesn't do good for wiki in my opinion. A link with a detail of it should do okay like Alice's Nick Speaks (own section like this one) The link. A description and a note that says please don't talk about this link here, etc. to avoid like what we see. ♥ Ariyen ♀ 02:26, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

First of all, I would love to see a link to the Zhed story because there's no reason beyond uptight policy why it matters. Part of an online game (a large part) is it's community. Documenting the game should include documenting prevalent community affairs. The wiki documents completely fictional community held events with entire pages ("The contents of this page are player-managed and do not represent official Guild Wars lore or canon.", present on wiki mainspace) that are not on any official game calender but we won't document a few words of text at the very bottom of a page that reference the only Zhed or Nick story in perceptible existence? Frankly, let's see the official policy stating absolute restriction to only in-house and canonical content before we begin to debate the "we only document the game" argument. Is it in fact just a psuedo-law that has so far seen compliance? Furthermore I'm going to again raise the point of the direct link to fan fiction @ Holy Haste. We can twist it to say its a documentation of a reference made, but we can twist it right back and say it's advertising of the fan-fiction since a link is present.

Your second paragraph, Fighterdoken; There is no reason why we shouldn't. Any argument based on what could happen due to a maxim is only hypothetical. Even if worst came to worst, I don't think the wiki will be sprawling with users attempting to have their fiction included everywhere. Even if this event did rise, we can keep order via exclusion due to unoriginality or blatant lack of pertinence (stories based on user's characters, one shot deals, etc. is what I mean by lacking pertinence).

Thank you for pointing out the supposed lack of popularity. In turn I'll suppose that at least a handful out of a guild populace (x/100^y, y being the potential number of allied guilds: "...me and guildie's always look forward to your posts...") checks up on the alternate dialogues every week, not to mention passerbys we can suppose exist but haven't made themselves known. On my user page I was trying to get a list going of people who visit the dialogues regularly to try to get an exact figure for the purpose of this debate, but I don't believe user-pages get much traffic. I may have read you wrong so if you weren't trying to make a supposition, then disregard, but there it is anyway for the sake of argument.

It is kind of ironic how far this discussion is going over some trivial trivia. In a nutshell: God does not send you to hell for leeway on a community-governed wiki. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 03:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

The Holy Haste trivia note you keep bringing up is a little misleading. The comic doesn't simply reference the skill. The comic was written before the skill was released, and may be the basis for the skills name, making it as valid a notation as any other inspiration. That being said, I don't see a problem with keeping a link on the talk page. For those that want to argue that a permanent link is unwarranted, then how about removing the link during a regular archive, and if the alternate page is still being updated, the link can simply be added by someone who cares enough to keep it linked here. No permanent link, no preferential treatment, no policy violation.--Pyron Sy 04:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I have no problem with a link to the page at the top of the talk page, but I am strongly against it in the Trivia section. I for one was a fan of Mr 68's contributions (before he sold out and became a user!), and would visit the page for the laughs, it would be a shame for people to have to dig up archives just to find out where Mr 68's contributions have gone. Also although De Kooning may have quoted GWW:TALK, we should remember as a guideline "note that these guides are meant to be a help, and shall be seen as a recommendation rather than strict law restricting creativity. If in any case the standardized formatting doesn't fit the purpose, you are free to modify it". ~Celestia 04:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the correction Pyron. My opinion still stands. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 05:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Problem being, the standarized formatting "does" fit the purpose... People that enjoy the fanfiction can just "watch" the page where such content is located (instead of bookmarking this one). New people can still know of it by mouth or a random mention about it on this page, and people who don't care can utilize the talk page for discussing the article itself.

As i said, i don't really like the idea of leaving a perma-link here on the talk page, but i guess is something we can live with. On the other hand, i WILL oppose to adding such link to the article(s) even as trivia, because it provides no relevant to the articles and is nothing more than self-promotion from users.

Next time we will know at this rate, is we having to link to "translations" of update patches on the "Notes" section of patches...--Fighterdoken 07:50, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

How about that we just create a section (that can be archived). and add link with description, but asking for no comments, etc. to direct those to the actual page? If people feel the need to add it again after it's archived, then okay. Just same again. Thoughts?♥ Ariyen ♀ 11:45, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Let me start by asking why the hell is everyone making such a big deal about a **** link. I mean come one. It is only a link. Secondly we (as a wiki community) made a deal with AliceandSven that she could have a permanent link on the talk page of the wiki. If we (beeing the communitie again) dont keep our end of the deal why should she? If we don't let her have the littel link, with title and request too post nothing about the link their, I think she has is fully in her rights to start posting her fan fiction her again. Even if it doesn't belong her. And for the record about the people reading her nicholas talk (or not reading it) I think there are a lot of people reading it without posting any comments on it, after al guildwarswiki is a informationm source for a lot of people. so most people will only read stuf and dont post anything (as I did for a long time). Another thing a link that could be archived would be another compromise I don't think we need another compromise, we will be here again next month wenn the page has been archived because someone put up the link.

And finally the whole discussion about the link has taken more place then the link would do in 10 years.

Concluding i think we need to give AlicevanSven the link we said she could have and we have to stop discussing about this link because it might or might not be suitable with the guidelines(not even rules but guidelines)--Wysth 18:19, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Amen. Also, this discussion in its entirety needs to be moved to Alice's talkpage, since it's about Alice's fanfic/link/etc., nothing about Nick himself. The size of this topic is absurd for what it is. Somebody just needs to let go and let it be, whichever way it ends up. Rose Of Kali 19:54, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

No, this discussion needs to stay here as it is in regards to this page. -- Wyn talk 20:04, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Please raise a case that would convince everyone why linking to either an original satirical or humorous work or a repository of satirical or humorous works (in good taste and on track with the article) would be more damaging than improving to our wiki. Wikipedia:Humor.

(Reset indent) Just to point out that as Wyn has said, this is a wiki and we come to a consensus through discourse, thus I suggest certain users stop bandying about terms like "absolutely ridiculous objections" which add nothing to the conversation at hand. As a wiki, everyone here is entitled to their opinion and compromise should not be sought between the chosen few, but between the general users of the page. This is the way a wiki works and that really isn't open for discussion. I, as a user, feel that a one line link within a permanent fan-fiction section on the talk page is unobtrusive enough and yet visible enough to accommodate all parties. However I do not think that fan fiction should be placed as a link on any main page article. This is my personal opinion and I have explained my reasoning above, but to condense it more, fan fiction is NOT trivia. Trivia is defined in the dictionary as "unimportant, trifling things or details, especially obscure and useless knowledge", however that knowledge is still direct factual knowledge about the issue at hand, fan fiction is by its very nature not knowledge due to it being non-canonical thus it should not under any circumstances be included within the Trivia section. (flights of fancy are not knowledge) This is my stance and thus far I have seen no reasoning from any other user which undermines this, the opposing view point seems to rest upon an attitude of "its not important", "it's no big deal" or "why do you care what we have on the trivia section?". Thus I must ask these people, if you truly don't care then why are you still discussing the issue? Obviously some users do care about uniformity throughout the wiki and it is an important issue to them, thus I would suggest to the people who wish to have this link on the trivia section, to provide some logical basis for doing so other than "Why not?". Regards -- Salome 20:22, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, here's an option, I dislike having a full topic for this link, so how about an additional link in the archive box? Unobtrusive, does not disrupt the TOC, but allows those that wish it, easy access to this. The part of this that I find ridiculous, is that this fan fiction LIVED on this talk page for months, and it wasn't until I pointed out that it didn't belong here and removed it, but was willing to compromise with a link, that ANY of the rest of you who are so vehemently objecting to this simple compromise had ANY OBJECTIONS WHAT SO EVER. -- Wyn talk 20:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I will be the first to admit Wyn that this topic only came to my attention due to the Recent changes flooding that this discussion has generated, however I don't think coming to the discussion late invalidates a user's ability to have an opinion. As I have said before many times, and you know me well enough wyn to know this, that if the majority wish for something, that I will abide by it and will help in any way I can to implement it, thus I am not asking for anyone to compromise with me, I am just stating my opinion. The archive box Link which you suggested may be a feasible option also. In this limited instance I agree that the conversation has grown quite big, however this wiki seems to have a bad case of "monkey see, monkey do" and thus I would not be surprised if others in the future would want their fan fiction directly linked, thus I do think that this topic has some merit in being discussed to this degree. Regards -- Salome 20:48, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) For those interested, I've attempted to create a summary of the debate. Feel free to amend the table if you feel I've missed or misrepresented an idea, however, please continue the debate here. I found it helpful to see all the arguments together; I hope anyone who follows the link will, too.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:52, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeh i think i have to agree with salome on this one, while i do honestly enjoy reading alice's posts, i do not wish to see the day that every talk page, or indeed trivia section is covered in these links. What's to stop a random user posting one badly written sentence parodying the article and then demanding their permanent link? Therefore regretfully i am against it. Tidas 21:12, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

The consensus for uniformity is not adamant. And you didn't really answer why the inclusion would be damaging, you just said "well some of us don't like it". To me, it doesn't damage anything except assumptions of what an article is supposed to include. Community involvement (beyond a couple paragraphs of "my fictional GW based story) is worth encyclopedic documentation, and this is not just ordinary fan fiction but an ongoing mirror of Nick meant to parody his weekly dialogues and the reasons why he's collecting that week's item. I would say a modest dose of humor is improvement even if it's not entirely canon. Player events are not canon but are player-run attempts to inject some extra enjoyment to the game, and these dialogues are done in similar spirits. As long as I'm consistent with the dialogues, this is my stance. If the reason for objection is because it would go under Trivia, could we consider another section that isn't trivia, maybe "Community Involvement" or something?

Two cups of coffee aren't helping my reasoning and logic faculties... Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Coinciding with what I just said and repeating what I mentioned earlier in the discussion, "monkey see monkey do" could be prevented without much effort by evaluating the originality, ingenuity and taste of the work. Compare a 5 page fiction story that someone wrote about their character's adventures to Alternate Nick. Fiction wouldn't be arbitrarily featured. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:20, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Yes but then your leaning far too close to a pvx fanfiction, with a rating system and a nice covering of elitism. Tidas 21:25, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Good point. The evaluation could be taken as elitism/rating/preference, but that isn't really what it's meant for. The goal isn't to submit fan-fiction artists to a digital execution but to make sure that community response and involvement is noted if it has a higher weight than "basic fan fiction". What are the processes like for determining which player run events are documented or not? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:35, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry you feel that way Alice, I however did detail the fact that Trivia itself does not encapsulate fan fiction, further to that I also explained that main space pages are for game documentation (and always have been) for the main reason that the wiki is here to facilitate people gaining knowledge about the game at the touch of a button, not to be bombarded with links to vaguely related fan fiction, you however have yet to supply any explanation other than "what does it damage?". Further to that it should be noted that it is generally frowned upon to link from main space pages directly back into a user's page, which is another reason why I'm against this. Also the concept of ranking fiction is something I just want to stay away from as it is completely arbitrary. Some people will like your work, some people won't and I do not want the wiki bogged down in a quagmire of us all pretending to be literary critics and judging who's fictional works have merit and who's don't as firstly it is not within our remit to do so and secondly it is not pertinent to the main space pages. (for example I'm sure many people enjoy your nick-fic but I'm equally sure that many people find it not to their tastes, either way though your fan-fic is undeniably unimportant to the facts of the page as it is.) Thus once again I must reiterate that I personally feel that fanfiction and links to personal userpages should never be found on main space pages. If people however wish to create an archive tab for fanfiction, with a corresponding page that lists all relevant fan fictions (not just one particular users) then I am all for it and I think that would be a workable solution to this issue as that way we avoid hanging links on the talk page, we dont mess with the TOC and we give all wiki users the opportunity to add their own pertinent fan fiction links for those interested and thus avoid claims of favoritism or elitism. Would this be an acceptable compromise to everyone? Alice, please also note that I do not mean to attack your fic, as I personally have alot of time for fan-fiction and I believe fan-fiction has alot of merit in community building, however I just personally feel links to it should be discreet and optional to view due to its fictitious nature and I truly hope I have not offended you by expressing my views on this issue. :) -- Salome 23:28, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

No offense taken. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 00:52, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Trivia may not "encapsulate fan fiction" in your definition Salome, but there is no real criteria outlined for trivia. Please let's keep this on track. The issue is, what is the most appropriate way to link something that a number of the community wish to have linked. I personally think that the original one line link at the top of this page was fine, but I also think a link in the trivia section would be fine as well. There is absolutely no reason that what is decided here, in this instance has to carry over to any other page, as each instance (of which I think there will be very few) can easily be taken on it's own merits, discussed and decided. The point of being able to discuss and come to consensus is just that, that nothing is set in stone, and can be adjusted as the situation merits. The formatting guidelines, are simply recommendations, and there isn't really anything in policy that restricts this kind of link usage. -- Wyn talk 01:42, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

There is absolutely no reason that what is decided here, in this instance has to carry over to any other page orly? WTB consistency? Jennalee 12:31, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

"Trivia" has a definition; check any dictionary. The wiki doesn't need to create a definition on its own for each concept in the world so it can operate.

On your second point, sorry, but no. As Salome points, the wiki has a long history of "setting precedents" for things (that later have to go through 10 pages long discussions to get changed).

Third, guidelines are supposed to be followed "unless there is a good reason" to not, and i really don't see a "need" to ignore it here besides wanting to make happy a few users. There are other options available, such as the authors using GWW:CP to make their works known, the interested users using "Watch" to keep the target pages on sight, people posting a single note on talk pages as a presentation (instead of permalinks), or using the userspace where these kind of stuff belongs.

The main argument i keep seeing that supports the inclusion of such links is "some users like it", which from my point of view is not enough to warrant ignoring the guideline (since the users who "like it" already know the destiny location and don't need a link). If you could provide an argument as to how the link is "relevant to the article or the talk page", that would be another thing.

All in all, i think the idea you (or Salome? tl;dr) proposed a bit above in regards of working over the archive box to provide a link to the moved content would be the best compromise to the situation of this page in particular.--Fighterdoken 02:34, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

It is relevant as a parody of Nicholas that strictly coincides with the style of his page and the weekly theme of his dialogue. It might even inspire a chuckle or smile. "i really don't see a "need" to ignore it here besides wanting to make happy a few users" And there isn't a reason to follow it besides making a few users happy.

It's just humor related to the article contents... Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 05:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I suppose the main thing i have against the link is the fact that anyone who wants to read the parody would be better off watching the page anyway. If the link remains in the trivia then it takes the same amount of clicks to go from main to nick to parody as it does to go main to watchlist to parody, aswell as the fact that it being on your watchlist would save you having to click it to find out if its been updated yet. But this debate has gone on too long and if its ensured that no other fan fiction article will get a permanent link simply on the grounds that this one does, then i won't stand against this link. Tidas 09:24, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Having been reading this discussion since the original move but staying silent thus far I have to agree with Fighterdokens last comment as well as the compromise Salome (I believe it was him) came up with - the link in the archive box. I too am against a link on the main page for mostly the same reasons as Salome. Either a link at the top of the talk page or a link in the archive box would be the ideas I currently support but the archive link is preferential at this time. Also Alice as Fighterdoken mentioned in his last post "guidelines are supposed to be followed "unless there is a good reason" to not" which means that there is a reason beyond making a few users happy to follow it. --Kakarot 13:24, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

My facet of the argument is basically gimped at this point since I fail at arguing. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 22:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Could we just focus on the fucking subject? The whole thing was archived, and yet you HAD to pollute it again. --Frozen 10:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

How about what I've done with the archive box? I don't see a need to create a completely separate page for a single link. If others wish to create a fantasy Nick, we can look at other options. -- Wyn talk 11:52, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

As someone else already stated, I've never seen a fan creation on a wiki. The wiki is a place for informations regarding something, for all the rest, there's the fan websites. Not only this fiction isn't in the good place, but this debate shouldn't be here either. --Frozen 13:03, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Regarding Nick & Fan-Fiction, just make a blog and we could place a link for it if needed. It's SO much better than using the Wiki. And to be honest I really enjoyed reading the fan-fiction that was created around Nick though I'm not a fan-fiction reader. Markus Clouser 13:16, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

That should work for now, Wyn...--Fighterdoken 16:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not an archive, it shouldn't be listed with the archives, but separately. So, I guess we are back to square one. -- Wyn talk 18:55, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

It would be less confusing if there was another horizontal line between the link to alternate Nick and the archive box image (imo). -- FreedomBound 18:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

That's why I had put the link at the top of the archive box above the picture, but someone else moved it down with the rest of the archives, which imo is not acceptable. So, I just removed it. -- Wyn talk 19:14, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

What is wrong with the original italic line at the top of the page? :( Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 19:31, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I was the one who changed it. I changed the title to "fanfic : Alternate nick" so that people knew what it was before clicking it. It wasn't the best fix in the world but IMHO it was better than what was there. I also moved it to with the other links as with it above the archive and yet still in the archive box, when read as a sentence it said "Alternate Nicholas Archive" Which made very little sense as the 3 archives did not relate to alternate nick. Further to that their was no metion of it being a fan fic, thus people would be clicking it who weren't interested in reading the fan fiction. Fan fiction, if linked in this way, should be CLEARLY labeled before the person clicks it, so that users aren't wasting their time clicking things they aren't interested in going to. Where I put it did not break the flow of the page, nor did it add new layouts to the page which we don't utilize else where in the wiki. Maybe we could adapt the archive box to have under the archives a title saying Fan Fiction and then under that a link to alice's fanfic, that way its clearly labeled, not confusing and very visible. Surely that would be acceptable to all parties involved? -- Salome 19:45, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The fact that this is something that we haven't done anywhere else on the wiki is going to require using something that isn't used anywhere else. Adding inline with the archives doesn't make any sense as it is NOT an archive, and shouldn't be considered one. So, at this point, I'm back to going for the single line link that was originally placed on this page. Compromise Salome. -- Wyn talk 19:52, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Just to let everyone see what I'm trying to do to accomodate all parties, (before anyone else libels me as hard headed or uncompromising) please take a look the picture below. I've been trying to code it since we first mentioned modding the archive link and I think it will be to everyone's tastes (hopefully). What does everyone think? This way the flow of the page is unbroken but Alice's fan fiction gets pride of place and everyone clicking the link knows what it is. That way its clear for everyone and prominent for those who are curious. Any info or feedback on this is greatly appreicated guys. From looking at the names of the users in this discussion, we have some of the most talented wiki'ers in GWW here, I'm sure that between us we can create something that works. :) -- Salome 20:34, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

That makes it a bit too complicated imo.. Just add a normal link at the end of the archive and it is fine :S poke | talk 20:37, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Complicated?!? looks fine and dandy to me... and I don't even like the fan fiction 192.203.160.241 20:39, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay with help from Fighterdoken and poke, the coding is sorted. Does this meet with everyone's needs and likes? As honestly as compromises go, I think this is quite a good one. :) -- Salome 20:54, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

"From looking at the names of the users in this discussion, we have some of the most talented wiki'ers in GWW here". I'm glad my sig blends into the wall of text that well xD. On topic, looks nice, though i didn't really mind the link in the trivia section in terms of looks but yeh seems fine. Tidas 20:59, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Works for me. -- Wyn talk 21:18, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

(Thumbs up) I can settle for this since the main page debate is a bit tired out by now. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 21:43, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

12 October

Break out the dragon-radar! and lets the games begin (I can't be arsed tbh) Jonny10 15:18, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Someone on Guru said Ice Flow collecting Mursaat Tokens. There's no confirmation yet. Can anyone check that out? Karate Jesus 15:44, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

There's confirmation that it's not. Based on John's recent hint, I don't think we'll find him in Prophecies. -- FreedomBound 15:54, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I was kinda surprised that it would be prophs again. Does Nic go to EotN? I can't remember. Karate Jesus 15:57, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

yes he does.--93.40.50.34 15:58, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) x2 Nicholas the Traveler/Research. - Reanimated X 16:00, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Pretty much confirmed that he is NOT at Ice Flow--Hawkins 16:02, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I hesitate to call a hint "confirmation", usually relying on thoroughly checked screenshots for that. That being said, I ran through Ice Flows and didn't see him. NineSidedDie 16:05, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, I've spoken to and heard from several people who say Nick is not in ice flow and say they have run through it, and 1 who says he is there but has no screenie, so, I don't think he is there.--Hawkins 16:08, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) There is no way he could have been in Ice Flow, but there was a small chance he was in Ice Floe. Seriously. - Reanimated X 16:09, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I didn't mean the hint was the confirmation, just that on Guru there were several people providing testimony that he wasn't there. The second sentence was a separate point. -- FreedomBound 16:10, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Wasn't calling you out, was just saying it'd be a shame people didn't check due to 'confirmation'. Seems he isn't in Ice FLow at the moment, any other rumours? NineSidedDie 16:13, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Okey, awesome, but now let's concentrate on where he is. Anyone? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.2.7.216 (talk).

:/ Spelling errors aside, some guy just mentioned Crystal Overlook. Obviously, he's not there. Don't waste your time looking. Karate Jesus 16:12, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm waiting for "Nick in Domain of Pain collecting 5 Inscribed Shards per Gift - confirmed with screenshots", and the devs chuckling over everyone having complained about too easy Nick farms in the past month or so. NineSidedDie 16:15, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Monoliths are not exactly hard to farm, but 5 would be a lot :/ Anyway, maybe we should quit commenting until someone has actual news. We're probably just freaking the RC whores out. Karate Jesus 16:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

nick's in the crystal overlook next to the portal to the arid sea http://img387.imageshack.us/img387/8750/nick1.jpg: collecting 1 luminous stone per gift 24.255.173.120 16:24, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

crystal overlook @ teleports - luminious stones, confirmed by guildies InfestedHydralisk 16:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, sweet God....he's in proph again. It's confirmed with SS's on Guru. Karate Jesus 16:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Crystal Overlook is Elona broski. NineSidedDie 16:28, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yea, ignore that. I'm an idiot today. Karate Jesus 16:29, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Ugh more mandragors. Annoying farm this one. Flipper 17:36, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah.. I </3 Mandragors.. I'll just buy em.. :S Magic Talk 17:41, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Woah, Woah Timeout

"i've seen him in the Crystal Overlook next to the portal to the arid sea, collecting 1 Luminous stone per gift Anyone seen or heard anything about Nick yet? He should have moved about 20 minutes ago"

How did Hawkens see him in Crystal last week collecting the same stuff as this week? Karate Jesus 16:29, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Because there's never been any bugs in GW before? Ever? -- FreedomBound 16:33, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Please check edit history. The first part of that was added this week by an "inexperienced" user. Rose Of Kali 16:34, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

The first part of that isn't mine, someone else put it there, I removed it, but he is in Crystal Overlook, seen screenshot on guru--Hawkins 16:38, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed,Crystal overlook.--Neil2250Evil mantis thing commands you to feed him cookies. 21:22, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

10/12/09 Travel to Nich

It may be worth noting for those who have both Prophecies and have been within the Crystal Overlook, running to him from Dunes of Dispair, into The Arid Sea, and jumping across the teleporter takes you straight to Nick. There's only a few foes to run thru as well. Magic Talk 03:46, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yep or if your whole party has been to the crystal desert you can have one person run to that portal NF side and go back through the other way very fast and a derv or sin run build can do it no problems. -- Tenri 05:00, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Might be also worth noting to the fact that these items can be farmed easier on noobie island in Nightfall with the lower level counterparts droping the same item. - SabreWolf

Actually, I think the lower level enemies drop lustrous stones, not luminous stones. I don't think they start dropping luminous stones until lvl 22. Could be wrong though. Karate Jesus 17:04, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Yer the teleporter was news to me (never vanqed this deep in the desolation yet)... I loved seeing the "Big Female Warrior Statue" and I realised where I was in the world... 192.203.160.241 17:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

About starter island for the stones, i tried farming em there first cause it says on the Mandragor pages that they drop the stones but after getting 5 lustrous and no luminous, i decided that i wasn't going to get any there, any Mandragor on the mainland should work tho. -- Tenri 22:50, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

I think but I'm not for sure that Mandragor in and around Blacktide Den and possibly around the Keys drop them. Magic Talk 20:12, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Didn't try in blacktide but i was getting lustrous in the keys -- Tenri 21:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

19th October

Can someone please supply a screeny showing the location of nick the place alone is not much help — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jigweasel (talk) at 15:48, 19 October 2009 (UTC).

Poke is way ahead of you. Karate Jesus 15:50, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

:D poke | talk 15:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks but do u know a good place to farm the items? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jigweasel (talk • contribs) at 15:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC).

Honestly, you could probably do it near where Nick is. I'm trying to find a good place now. Karate Jesus 15:57, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Water Djinns are relative rare, so look where they spawn. poke | talk 16:00, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

[1] Wohlert 15:59, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Look at the article, you are too late. poke | talk 16:00, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, there are three areas Djinn that drop that particular essence. Fahrahnur only has, what, 5 total? So wouldn't be a good farm, thus leaving Turai's Procession and Bahdok Caverns. It has been ages since I've been to Bahdok, but Turai has mostly Flame Djinn I believe. -- Konig/talk 16:02, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

There aren't many in Turai's (maybe 10). Maybe Bahdok. If not there, I'll try to farm the quest they're in. Karate Jesus 16:03, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Wow....um....they're are barely any of these anywhere. I think we're looking at farming the quest...and that's it. Which really limits who can farm these. Karate Jesus 16:14, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

So this week will be a bitch to farm, eh? Well, I guess leaving from Gate of Desolation would be best for those who don't have a NF character who hasn't even done Consulate Docks. -- Konig/talk 16:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually...I think people might try to piggyback with people who have the quest. Either way this is going to be a bad week. No matter where you farm them....it wont be easy. The hardcore guys may even re-create NF chars and grind to the quest. This is going to be soooo bad. Karate Jesus 16:43, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

What about the battledepths in EOTN... same drop there? MrPaladin † talk 16:43, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Those are Wisps, not Water Djinns. Water Djinns are INCREDIBLY rare apparently. Karate Jesus 16:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

hmmm now that I think about it your right... most of the ones I thought were water are saphire! MrPaladin † talk 16:46, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Yea, we're seriously talking about maybe a dozen in Bahdok, maybe 10 in Turai's, maybe a little over a dozen on the quest, and 5-6 in Fahurnar. Karate Jesus 16:48, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

and none of em near a Zone portal... cept for the Wind and water quest... MrPaladin † talk 16:51, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

gah, this Is useless... I need a good build for this.--Jigweasel 17:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

You can do the normal spirit spam and get it in Turai's or a lot of people on Guru are running AoB Dervs to Fahrunar and killing the 4 djinns there. Karate Jesus 17:54, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually, the droprate for them on the 4 djinns in Fahrunar appears to be pretty high. I just went and checked it. I got 3 essenses for killing the 4 djinns. Other people in the outpost are saying they stay about as high. Karate Jesus 18:09, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Peeps in my guild are only seeing 1 drop/run in Fahranur.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:07, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Ever tried Hidden City of Ahdashim exploarble area? Dunno 'bout other builds, but used to farm there as 600 monk with hero bonder. Got my share of essences there.

Actually, in the Northeastern corner of Turai's I ended up getting 6 in one run. There are enough of them up there and spirit farming works on them (although, you may need to bring EVAS for the Immolated Djinns). Karate Jesus 19:25, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

IRT Hidden City... unfortunatly those are them saphire Djinn I mistook for the water varient earlier... MrPaladin † talk 19:58, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

If you are working in the drunk title you can use drunken master with a spiritspammer build in Fahurnar, you get sometimes even 3 items, the run is a little more than 3 minutes and is a fun way to work on drunkard =D sorry if I'm posting the obvious --Batousai 00:29, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

If you're farming in Farhunar its easy, just annoying if you have bad luck. I used AoB derv with dash, run past all the skales and undead and kill the djinns, takes just a few minutes per run.--SunJinyu 04:25, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Drop rate is pretty good, anywhere you farm them. A guildie got a char to the quest (was nearly there, which is lucky), and in less than an hour, a 4-man group got enough for 5 people :D 86.125.251.241 06:14, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Meanwhile, in Turai's Procession ... There are 14 water djinn, I went through 10 times, got 4 essences. I'm thinking the MMO gods are just having a day with me.— The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.102.32.23 (talk) at 06:51, 20 October 2009 (UTC).

Where are the Djinn in Fahranur? I can't find them any where.. x.x Magic Talk 06:18, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

They are where the Apocrypha is at the end of the mission. Only three of them plus one boss though. poke | talk 06:23, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Poke. It's not a bad run though. It's taking me 3 minutes to complete and yields 2-3 essences per run. Best run so far was 5. :3 76.6.79.104 07:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

My family and I farm the gifts weekly. My sis had War Preparations (Wind and Water) and we farmed the Djinn repeatedly. We were able to get thirty in about an hour. Just thought I'd try to help out. Happy Farming! --Bestat Talk to me! 11:04, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering if the djinn in this quest were dropping essences. Good to know - thanks! 74.40.135.18 18:02, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Any time! I'm here to help! --Bestat Talk to me! 18:09, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

These are very easy to farm even without the quest. In Fahranur you get 1 or 2 / run on average, and the run takes roughly 5 minutes. A speed boost works great here since you have to walk quite a long distance to get to those Djinns. Markus Clouser 07:41, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm thinking it's even easier to farm with this quest, though the other methods sound fairly easy also. No running, just walk out of Kodlonu, wait about 60 seconds as that seemed to still be valid to be sure everything is dropping items, knock out 11 water djinn, pick up your essences, resign, rinse, repeat. A friend and I teamed up after I got there to pick up 31 in a little over an hour also. We worked on our emotes to beat Lumo the next time the Tihark Orchard zmish repeats while we waited for the spawn drops to activate. Almost makes me wonder how much people are being overcharged for these -,^ 74.40.135.18 13:13, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Reguardless of the item selected the weekly nick items run for 10-15k for a "set" (this week a set being 5) so thats 2-3k each... this is done because the resell on the nick item is approx 4k... only time I've seen the price on the collector item tank was when it was super easy to farm with even a low level character... If you must buy the nick collector item, look at buying it around friday, by then the action is slowing down, everyone has a bunch they farmed and they just wanna lose their inventory before the item becomes worthless again... MrPaladin † talk 13:20, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

My experience when I've bought rather than farmed has been that I'm able to purchase a set for 5 gifts at around 2.5-4.0k for the entire set. There are always those trying to make a faster buck, but I've been able to purchase in bulk and from people selling smaller amounts for up to 9 accounts within 30-90 minutes. Over the past months I've bought bog skale fins (for the herring), jungle troll tusks, and forest minotaur horns at this price from random sellers rather than what I consider the exorbitant amount some people try to charge for them. 74.40.135.18 14:58, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

For Halloween...

Nick and Yakington need a costume.. and should collect ToTs. I vote Yakington as a ghost. :3 Magic Talk 01:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Bit late. :3 -- Konig/talk 01:41, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah late but we can vote now and have them wear it next year dont we?--Wysth 08:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I second the vote for Nick and Yakkington in costume. Not 100% sure about the idea of collecting ToT Bags... maybe have that as a 2nd "trophy" he would collect, or maybe Yakkington would? Adeira Tasharo 15:04, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

There would have been enough tots floating around this year to warrant collection :( Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 01:19, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Main page...

I updated Nick's page with the latest stuff, but on the main page it's showing Minister Cho's Estate (explorable area) rather than Minister Cho's Estate (with a link to Minister Cho's Estate (explorable area)). Is there anyway to change it, or is it not possible with the way the main page is including this information? >_> -- Chrono (talk) 16:12, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Currently not possible, with the current setting; but I'll think about a solution... poke | talk 16:28, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

10/26 Dialogue Transcription Error

There's an error in the transcribing of Nick's Dialogue for today. His dialogue says "... I'd like to relieve some of her burden..." in game. The page here says "...I'd like to relive some of her burden...". In case anyone is unclear, "relieve" means to help cure someone of something, whereas "relive" means to re-experience something, which would seem here rather masochistic of Nick. The page seems to be protected against edits, so could someone fix this? 69.249.223.63 16:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. -- Wyn talk 16:45, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Also should be "lose" instead of "how hard it is to loose someone you love." --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.174.28.185 (talk).

Thanks, fixed! -- FreedomBound 19:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It would fit to the alternate Nick dialoge though too have relive standing there--Wysth 20:43, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Lost Treasure

I went out with a new char that still had Lost Treasure quest active and had a no show from Nicholas. Did the quest and rezoned and he was there — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 77.102.17.0 (talk) at 22:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC).

Confirmed. Nicholas doesn't spawn if you have Lost Treasure quest active. Shira 12:21, 27 October 2009 (UTC)