Talk:Nicholas the Traveler

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Burial Site

Nicholas doesn't die during the time period covered by GW1. If this were the "Tyrian Lore Wiki," we would, of course, include everything we know about every NPC from both games. But as this is the GW1 wiki, I think it's irrelevant and misleading to refer to the events in between the games. I think it's awkward, because it's difficult to make sure both wikis provide consistent information if both are covering similar material.

(It's also vaguely a spoiler: I was hoping Nick & Prof Yak would disappear at some point and that NPCs from here to the mists would, right up through the death of Zhaitan, report rumors of sighting the Traveler — as if not only did he traverse the whole of Tyria (137 zones of GW1), but also across time. I was lucky enough to find the gravesone before people were writing about it.)

I don't visit here much, so maybe there's a new policy that GWW does document aspects of events that take place after GW: Beyond or even from GW2. Even without such a policy, I can imagine that there might be a consensus to include some of this type of trivia. But I think it would be better to establish the consensus first and adding the information after.

added: Apparently, the established consensus is to not include GW2 lore here: Dec 2012 discussion – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:25, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

That's why it's trivia. The note's been there since GW2's release, and multiple pages have similar notes - Professor Yakkington, Alesia, Reyna, Captain Greywind, Farmer Dirk, and Gwen off the top of my head. Even Orr and Arah, until Santax recently rewrote them, included mention of Zhaitan being beneath Arah in the trivia section since Zhaitan's name was even known. It's not very irrelevant since it's about the NPC, but since it's not in GW1 it's in the trivia section rather than with all the rest of the lore. And I fail to see how it's a spoiler or why your hopes being dashed (and having been dashed for 7 months now) is relevant to documenting information - I mean, we didn't stop Ebonhawke's documentation because it was a spoiler to Beyond (though it never happened and at this point, likely won't sadly).

The above consensus is to document GW1 lore on GWW and GW2 lore on GW2W, but nothing says against a trivia note. Two different things I dare say. (though, IMO, the above discusison consensus should be avoided when no GW2W article exists or is deemed by them relevant enough to exist yet new lore is gained. Konig 04:37, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Any information that comes from GW2 is a SPOILER, there is the GW2W for that.

Why does somebody have to get his/her surprise RUINED by somebody who got there (lore storyline) ahead of the reader? Which is the point of watching a movie if your "friends" already told you the ending? I WANT TO BE THE ONE WHO DISCOVERS IT. (Although I'm not buying GW2, but for the sake of our readers.)

If a player who hasn't bought GW2 yet wants to learn what will happen in the future, there is the {{gw2w}} to click and continue the research.

Personally, I have always been willing to revert Konigs GW2 information here in GW1 but because I am most of the time seen with my Forest Chopping Axe, I was hopping to wait for more people who would be against such spoilers to form a proper consensus. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 05:08, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Keep gw2 on gw2, not here. Leave gw1 alone with no gw2 info. Simple. Easy. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rodan (talk) at 05:29, 17 March 2013 (UTC).

Except that there is no gw2:Nicholas the Traveler or other Nicholas Sandford articles. What you'd get is gw2:Gravestone (Stronghold of Ebonhawke) which is just as much of a "spoiler." Besides, if you want to be the one to find something out, there's a very simple thing to do: don't go on the wiki at all - the wiki in of itself is one massive spoiler.

When there is no GW2W article, and not enough reason to merit one, I think it's perfectly viable to put the lore here so that we don't go making 3 sentence articles on one wiki where it's ten paragraphs on another. Reason why I'm against articles like gw2:The Searing and why I'm grateful no one's gone and made gw2:Desmina, since that would hold as much information as Desmina. Besides, in the case of graves, it's literally a single line at the very bottom past all the scrolling. It isn't any more detrimental than going to this wiki for anything else. Konig 15:57, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

You are missing the point. I can stay in GW1W safe of spoilers because the interest is here. The spoiler comes to taint us all when something that happens in GW2 is told in GW1W.

If I don't want to know what happens in GW2, then I don't go to GW2W. Which is what anybody of us can do.

But if you put something on GW1W that belongs to GW2, then it's being your doing, not anyone's fault who wants to remain in GW1 world. The GW1W should be free of GW2 content, that is why there is the GW2W. I don't care much about GW2, but I can imagine that the graveyard is either a landmark or some sort of interactive object, that should suffice to write a page in retrospective about GW1, like history books. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 17:59, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

You're still being spoiled just by coming to this wiki, and you risk being spoiled of things you may not want to know just by visiting any article. I fail to see the significance of learning about where a mortal's grave will be once he dies. I mean, it's pretty obvious Nick's gonna die even before GW2 came out - only absurd theories that doesn't fit lore like TEF's would presume otherwise. These notes are no more spoilery than learning that Nicholas had a thing for Mary Malone. Konig 19:52, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

If there was a GW1 novel where Nick died, that would be pertinent to this page, right? Even though it's not part of the GW1 game? Is GW2 not just another source of information about Nick, as valid as a novel? If GW2 mentioned that Nick likes to eat mangoes on Saturdays, that might not be important enough to note here, but his burial place and year of death is pretty important. It's valid, important information relating to the GW1 character no matter if it comes from another game, a blog post by ANet, a developer in GToB chat, or elsewhere. Manifold 21:47, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

The ony vaild action to input lore brought from GW2 being written in GW1W is if there were no GW2W, which there is and that's it. The ony excuse Konig has is that there won't be enough information to create a page in GW2W. That is the GW2W's problem. The GWW shall not spoil the surprise from GW2 to anybody here in the Guild Wars Wiki of Guild Wars 1 ONLY.

That is why this site's Main Page says:

Welcome to the official Guild Wars Wiki,
the comprehensive Guild Wars reference written and maintained by the players.

Yoshida Keiji(talk) 09:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

It's hardly a spoiler of any kind. No more than saying Vizier Khilbron caused the Cataclysm (note: it's said in the Prophecies manual). Konig 21:31, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

In general I'd be with YK on this topic. I've seen it mentioned that there are cases where GW1 and GW2 lore contradict each other (don't ask me. I don't know. I don't care). So this wiki should stick to info gained from GW1 and ignore stuff from GW2. In this particular case I'd be a bit more lenient though: People die, that's no spoiler. And telling me where they will be burried and their DoD isn't really spoiler-ish for me. To answer Manifold's Q (from my perspective): A GW1 book would be lore, GW2 isn't. Steve1 21:52, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

GW2 is set 250 years from Nightfall. This is a fantasy game. Think. How many notable characters GW1 has? (start to think about each of the main figures and tell me your approximate guess number) Does everybody have to die in a fantasy game? Your imagination doesn't include: eternal life, resurrection, mutation, direct/indirect cryonic preservation and so on? Would you like all those surprises being revealed to you by Konig before you find out? Is there no primary lore personality you would like to see again? To me it's not okay if everything is told to me about GW2 in the GW1W. If I were to be interested about it, then GW2W is the place to find out, NOT HERE. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 10:45, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Since I am still unable to log into GW2 six months after its release (almost 7?) this is a fairly moot argument for me, but I do think GW1 lore pages should not reference GW2, which for me at least, is still vaporware.

If I am lurking somewhere withing GW2W and I self-spoil a surprise is it my fault, because I could have prevented myself by not accessing the GW2W. But if while contributing in GW1W, I have a GW2 surprise spoiled by Konig...That means: Press Missile Launch. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 10:53, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Is knowing where Nick is buried when he dies really that much of a spoiler? No. It isn't. You're exaggerating things here Yoshida-san. BTW: eternal life doesn't exist in GW for normal folks (so far, only gods and possibly Magi Malaquire have eternal life - and the latter's a questionable case and we don't know what's up with him), resurrection doesn't reduce age, mutation isn't that much a spoiler either and not very common (Duirds, Margonites, and... possibly Wardens - that's it). And don't make me out to be the bad guy, okay? I'm not the only one editing GW2 stuff into the GWW (Falconeye and Santax also have). And not everything about GW2 can or will be told on GWW - only things that have relevance to GWW and as trivia notes so they're hard to see, with rare exceptions, which again are not spoiler information! Konig 02:26, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

To me, a spoiler is a spoiler regardless of degree. And I will not make any side step on this matter, not going to give you any other inch for persuasion anymore.

The real question should be:

• What is spoiled by players that come back from GW2? versus:
• Official preview/teaser media (videos) information released prior GW2 launch.

Of course there will always be a bit of "discoveries" anyone who was interested to buy before launch will find out by himself.

My previous response is meant to address that a Fantasy game doesn't have to follow common logic/reasoning/sense. Only in real life you can expect people to live somewhere around 100 years. In a universe where everything is possible, such kind of thinking would be really sad. I gave a few examples but certainly there could be much more: Ascencion (Kormir), time-travel (sort of Asura Gate), spirit life (as in somebody becomes a ghost and why not reincarnation, e.g.:Shiro), any kind of magic that can turn someone from ashes back to flesh and bones (Phoenix mythology), etc etc etc and this is getting out of topic...

When I say Konig this, Konig that. It's because you are the GWW Lore Guru and once we set this discussion I will make you a userbox public recognition. Falconeye, I dont like because 95% of his/her edits always get reverted. If Lock pick#Retention means the chance of keeping a lockpick then EditRR is the number of edits that don't need double check. Falconeye's ERR is below 5% and all the additional stuff we already know about this user, I don't want to go into details as I don't intend to bad mouth. Santax, I don't know this user. Wasn't so active during 2012 so I can't tell.

I don't want people seeing me in the middle of a nerd-fight, that scares me more than spoilers and I want this matter done for once. I have been watching you all this time and I know that you have edited articles with content in between paragraphs (not just trivia lines), and I personally prefer to revert such pages to their state prior your modifications. Whatever you find out in GW2 make an article in GW2W instead, and if you find little information to write about, just make a compilation by patterns. For example, if you want to register GW1 characters graveyards, make a list that includes them all and that's it, that page will have more than three lines. I'm sure you have enough creativity to find your way around short articles.

So ...NO. A spoiler is still a spoiler. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 09:40, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Here:

{{User:Yoshida Keiji/Userboxes/Konig Des Todes}}

Yoshida Keiji(talk) 12:09, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The wiki is full of spoilers. Any argument otherwise is flawed. Whatever the outcome it doesn't need this volume of rambling. -Chieftain Alex 14:26, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

A spoiler is indeed a spoiler, but different spoilers merit different things - like some needing spoiler tags. See this discussion which was about how, previously, the wiki was denoting all spoilery things with a spoiler tag and how, in the end, it was decided that only major primary storyline things would get a spoiler tag (GW2W is beginning to have the same issue, but that's another matter entirely). Point of bringing up said discussion is that there are spoilers, and then there are big spoilers. This is the former, where the wiki doesn't give a rat's ass about it being obvious. Because, as both I and Alex said, the wiki is full of spoilers and is, in of itself, one big ass spoiler. This isn't anywhere close to has big of an issue as you're making it out to be, Yoshida. Like Alex said, it doesn't need this much rambling about it, as it's no where near important. You say that things found out in GW2 that spoilers GW1 should only be denoted on GW2? I don't disagree and I say that this isn't such a thing. Not by the aforemention discussion's outcome of what a real spoiler for the wiki is.

And I politely decline your acknowledgement of being a resident lore guru.

As for any edits I've made in paragraphs with GW2 lore - mostly I was just altering Santax's articles, except for a few that was prior to this discussion. And in all cases, they're not spoilery in any way shape or form - no more than the rest of the article which would more likely than not have a {{spoiler}} tag.

TL;DR YOU are making this a bigger deal than it actually is. By this wiki's standards, it is not a spoiler because the wiki itself is one large spoiler. Konig 16:21, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

A page has been turned. With this message I would like to formally ask that we (as community) do not close up this matter and consider it consensus "reached" yet. I have just gone through a full overview sweep and already found several odd points which will certainly require time and concentration. You will know my progress as I keep updating User:Yoshida Keiji/Workshop 1. But still I will be maintaining a negative position in this aspect because:

The content of GWW articles cannot depend on GW2. For instance, there will be no way for somebody who doesn't have GW2 to confirm entries based on it, let alone edit, fix, overhaul, reduce redundancy, etc. And it is very scary and worrying that: knowing how people can lose interest to continuously contribute in wiki-s it will be very disastrous if any page is left half-way due to the user's inactivity here. The GWW should only write based on GW1. Whatever information that comes from GW2...if a GW1 player cannot experience this withing the GW1 it has no sense at all, which is a "return to where we started" as per TEF. Nicholas is alive to us, and what you are doing here is killing him.

Just for heads up, the consensus reached before does NOT apply to this situation because the cases are different. The past discussions were centered on two sides:

• A player who has already finished all campaings and extensions. Versus:
• A player who has just started playing.

This is where spoiler alert would trigger.

But in the case of GW1-GW2 the case would affect both situations above, Versus:

• A player who has already finished or has moderate progress withing GW2.

Which will go for both GW1 types who may not have bought GW2.

I will go and shake the dust (while I'm already active with other ongoing researches) regarding how GWW treated spoilers, but I don't see myself changing perspective of this issue. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 11:14, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

"if a GW1 player cannot experience this withing the GW1 it has no sense at all" It's like you're saying no source outside of the GW1 game is acceptable. We've used outside sources, from interviews, developer comments, instruction manuals, etc, before, none of which are observable from within the game. GW2 is just another source of GW1 information to me, like a hypothetical GW1 novel would be. I don't think we should discriminate based on source. Manifold 17:41, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

You know boys this sounds just like that whole "Star Wars" debate where George Lucas introduced midi-chlorians and upset many of his fans. I have been playing GW for a year and a half now only beat the first campaign so far. Personally I didn't need a wiki to tell me about undead Rurik, both my sons did that for me. Just as many people told me that Darth Vader was Luke's real father before I even saw the movie myself. People read a wiki for answers and I can't honestly say that they want to know or they wouldn't be peeking. GW and GW2 are going to be different animals no matter how well they are suppose to share the same history. Just as other popular works of fiction makes errors because there is more than one author at work. Correct me if I am wrong but everyone dies from old age, and I would find it more of a surprise that Nick is alive and kicking 200+ years in the future. But that information should be kept in GW2W and not GWW, since that information did not come from this game. Just my honest opinion. --Wendy Black 20:57, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

"The content of GWW articles cannot depend on GW2." Nor does it at all? It's not dependency, but additions of. Folks can easily go to GW2W to verify such things, far more often than not, usually be searching the title of the GWW article and looking through the search results.

Tell me this: How is using GW2 as an external source any different than using this interview article, which is referenced on this GWW article (and likely others)? Currently, the only difference is that we reference tag the latter. Would it please you if we reference tag the former as well? Because that's really the only thing that's different here. It's no more a spoiler than what those interviews give us - at all. No matter how you argue it, there's no difference except the source changing. Konig 01:36, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

If you want to include other Guild Wars 2 character information, it should be done as this; Mad King trivia link points out there is more info at the other wiki. There is no need to go into details on the trivia section. As for the "kill ten rats" interview I see no real point to the link being there or the reference. The small use of a the gw2w template button could be used for any suitable need. --Wendy Black 15:02, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

And that is done... when there's a GW2W article. But there is no gw2:Nicholas the Traveler or gw2:Nicholas Sandford, the best you get is gw2:Gravestone (Stronghold of Ebonhawke), which {{gw2w}} tagging to that holds the exact same issue that Yoshida and TEF seem to have. However, with cases like Dhuum and Abaddon, there is no single other article to link - there's no gw2:Dhuum or gw2:Abaddon - nor should there be any of these four articles, unlike gw2:Mad King Thorn who's an NPC even in GW2's time. GW2W has a stance of "no article if there's not enough new information or relevance to merit one" and that means no article on Dhuum or Abaddon there because it isn't merited for that wiki. So where do we add the new information? If we don't put it on this wiki's articles, it gets put no where but the original source's articles - which in the case of Abaddon, is spread over 10+ articles in single lines.

Currently, trivia notes aren't in detail - what this entire wall o' text is about is literally this line: "In Guild Wars 2, Nicholas and Professor Yakkington will be buried in Ebonhawke; both died in 1110 AE." - that's not in detail at all.

For your last comment - if we do that, then pages like Dhuum and Abaddon will have ten {{gw2w}} tags to ten different articles on it - that's horrendous! (and yes, I'm guesstimating) Konig 17:31, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

OKAY. Re-rolling back to the start, I will make a correction here. The problem Konig has it that there is no article withing GW2W that shares the same name but gw2:Gravestone (Stronghold of Ebonhawke) (I didn't check the link btw). And since there is a stance of no article unless merited, Konig has information with nowhere to place in.

So I checked Template:Gw2w. I can see that the second parameter could be used to link to the graveyard but altering the text, as writting graveyard already becomes a spoiler.

I spent the weekend out of home so I could not progress much regarding spoilers. Konig's template: User:Konig Des Todes/Spoiler had had no use after confirming Special:WhatLinksHere/User:Konig Des Todes/Spoiler. Why? I would certainly have NO OBJECTION at all if Nicholas's death information were to be hidden. I can say that at 100% I would have not noticed it at all and would have kept doing whatever else I was doing without removing it by the first time before reverts started.

Here, with these two alternatives, I am already seen resolutions I would be very fine with. So...nobody before 2011 December (my start time) ever got inspired enough to find these possible agreements?

Regarding sources, having extra information material that does not conflict within the articles is totally fine to me. The problem comes when it causes awkwardness. Because in this same article case, Nicholas is alive...but then at the bottom, it says that he died. Which is both controversial and a spoiler at the same time. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 11:31, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) However, simply {{gw2w}}'ing to gw2:Gravestone (Stronghold of Ebonhawke) won't really work because 1) the template is meant for articles of the same topic and though Nick's gravestone is in the aforementioned GW2W article, it's not an article about Nick. 2) The information on Nick is all the way at the bottom - literally 4 lines of 8 words in the article.
Why is that template not used? If you looked through the what links here links, you'd come across this discussion, which explains why it isn't used - the short version being that no one wants to use it. Even on GW2W, the same template is being used less and less in favor of simply putting {{spoiler}} at the top.
I don't see how saying "Nicholas will eventually die" is a conflict - it'd be no different than saying A Spirit of Truth will spawn near to the reward Chest after his death. on Lord Jadoth's article. And that's a current wording that you yourself kept. Konig 23:28, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

The linked page is the first of all I have read. What I was trying to ask is that the discussion there didn't really seem to get such a strong consensus. And again the difference is that: the Spirit of Truth is a spawn like any other time you kill an elite area end boss within the GW1 universe. Why Nicholas death happens in another game, and he is much more of a figure than just a reward NPC no one will care to know in future, it doesn't even have a name of its own. Poke is pointing Community Portal around August 2010... well I came here year and half later so...oh well... But really... don't tell us about GW2 content here... or hide it.

To be honest, that discussion that took place prior GW2 release doesn't really relate to this "present" time as of now discussion. Anybody like me that had already been into updating and modifying Formatting Guidelines could certainly find it's way to call for a change because the "old" discussion was for content within GW1, while a "new" discussion relating the transition between GW1 and GW2 could open a window for your interest, which I won't care at all so long as it remains hidden to me.

I really don't care about the GW2 nor GW2W but anybody that has some Wiki-Fu could come across an idea such as using a "redirect" page which pops-up a window with a message saying SPOILER: Want to continue? YES or NO, can create a "one" (1) click prevention were everything else could be written. I find totally pointless a tag at the top were the content may not necessarily have spoilers where a single NPC has two different article namings like normal Prince...and Undead Prince... Yoshida Keiji(talk) 11:43, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

---

No one wants gw2 information here. Why can you not see this? Are you going to continue to try to push information that is past gw1 content on to here? Why not document things there on userspace?

Why is the last known location of Nic in GW1 dated from 2012, and then it becomes a GW2 page??? Came here to see where Nic is handing out gifts, if I wanted to know where he's buried I'd go to the GW2 wiki. Can somebody please clean this mess up??? Please?? 67.168.34.202 17:35, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I didn't know that I, Santax, Falconeye - at least, possibly Manifold (not sure of his stance, if he has one on this) - are considered "no one" while an IP, Yoshida, TEF, and Wendy Black are people. So clearly, people do want some trivial information included. Please don't insult my very existence by calling me no one. Also, going to GW2W to find out where Nick is buried is completely different than going to GWW to find out all information on Nick (plus, how would you search on GW2W for that? It's so obscure that even searching Nicholas on GW2W makes it not that easy to find the sole article on it. Konig 22:28, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I did one search on the gw2 forum for nicholas and found a link to Defender's Field. The information is there and easy to find. The logic that there's no information about nics grave on the GW2 wiki, so lets add it the original GW wiki is flawed. People who are playing GW2 aren't going to search this wiki looking for GW2 information. If you have a problem with the GW2 wiki, then fix the GW2 wiki. Unless anet releases an update for GW that kills nicholas and buries him, the information does not belong here. LarryS 17:27, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Does consensus point to gw2's information not wanted? or is it wanted? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Rodan (talk).

@LarryS: The argument isn't that there's no information on Nick's grave, but that it's not easy to get to - on GW2W you can search "Nicholas" and get a series of results, only two of which are what's wanted. Nick's grave is one of the easier things, but other situations - like Alesia's gave - is less so. But the main point which I was trying to convey is this: if you're wanting information on Nicholas, where are you going to go? This wiki, and not the other. The only way folks are going to bother searching GW2W for these miniscule things will be if they see it or hear about it in game first and thus know it even exists. Tell me this: if you're wanting to know as much as bout Stefan as possible, which wiki will you go to? This one or GW2W?

@Rodan: It seems to be equal, of those who's commented - one side wanting trivia note worthy stuff documented only (exception when there's GW2 info but no GW2W article wanted by those wiki'ers - of which only cases atm would be Abaddon and Dhuum), the other side wanting nothing. Konig 21:52, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Nick would turn around in his grave if he'd knew his grave would have become a subject of such a huge, escalating discussion wich lost it's point. Add it yes or no, or just add a GW2 info link but just stop this discussion already, it's gone completely off topic and going nowhere. Da Mystic Reaper 22:04, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Perhaps I am a bit late in commenting here (as the gravesite reference is gone) but from my perspective as one who; is an avid (yet not "hardcore") fan of GW lore, enjoys finding out things as I go without spoilers, does not play GW2, and doesn't consider myself to be critical of GW2 info and trivia within the GWW; would think that a link here would be appropriate to please the majority of people. The games are independent of each other, yet interconnected. This wiki's administration SHOULD use this instance to develop some policy, as I am certain that this is not the first, and will not be the last time that this issue will appear...and this whole discussion then be moved (with a link placed here) to a page regarding such policy. I am opposed to GW2 info being placed directly here as it would be the equivalent to, for example, EA's NHL'95 data regarding Wayne Gretzky being written into the documentation for NHL2010, and vice versa for Sidney Crosby...neither makes sense, does it? ANet runs the wiki for both games, so I see no reason for them to oppose to a link...ANet has financed, established and operates two wikis for a reason...to keep the two games separated, so that they can allow both games to continue separately, observe the fanbase separately, and make it considerably simpler to eliminate GW support at the appropriate time (should that time arrive). Players interested in both games, and such trivia would likely use such a link, while those who don't would be able to progress without such info unless they chose to use such a link. I understand that there is a considerable amount of info from GW2W that hasn't been written yet, however, that wiki, like this one, is built by the users...and those users can post requests for pages on that wiki, or create pages there, that will match the format and provide such information as it is discovered. The fate and future of GW content within GW2 is not applicable to GW, just as the history, background and progression of GW content is not applicable to GW2. GW is for all purposes "lore" to GW2, and I would think that for the time being, there will be many instances where GW2W will directly reference GWW...but that will change as users build upon that wiki (and as policy is developed there). There is no need to undermine any new GW player's enjoyment of the game with spoilers...we had fun exploring the lore, and that was a BIG part of my 7+ year love affair with the game...and new players should have that same opportunity! Gwynna Vive 12:11, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Just for reference

I know we don't do "voting" for decision making, but the apparent results of the above were:

For the note (7)	Against the note (6)	Fence-post/non-plussed (1)
Konig Manifold Gwynna Vive Falconeye MystiLefemEle Alex Steve	TEF YK Rodan Larry S 2x IPs	Da Mystic Reaper

Meaning the outcome was in favor of not having the note, which matches the current status of the page. (If I got your decision wrong, edit the table). If you see anybody adding the note, direct them to the talk page. -Chieftain Alex 18:14, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Good Grief, it was just a mention and yeah, a spoiler. but, could he or his traveling companion really have lived long enough to see our next generations go about their questing?.MystiLefemEle 07:51, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Right. Keep the note. -Chieftain Alex 15:41, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I'm against the note for a few reasons. I would suggest making a separate page with all the NPC's in the game and listing what happens to them according to GW2. I don't mind knowing. I might even like it, but why is Nick different from Bartholos? Having the year here and not on Gwen's page seems strange (I assume we don't know when Gwen dies?) King Adelbern's page has a link to the GW2 wiki without stating any of the information found in GW2 on this wiki. Can we at least be consistent enough to do the same thing for all characters? - Mattrellen (talk) 00:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)

Arena Net & GWW

The best solution would have been to modify how the game HELP option directs players to the wiki, which by this time it is too late. For lore content with spoiler potential, the game should link to separete wiki-pages so that when a player wants more info about for example Rurik in Ascalon, the game would send the user to such page and not to a page with Rurik's entire game content. The later would only be a compilation of transclutions and would need no additional writting except for the last. Of course this GWW came much after game release.

In response to: "For what it's worth, I'm against the note for a few reasons. I would suggest making a separate page with all the NPC's in the game and listing what happens to them according to GW2. I don't mind knowing. I might even like it, but why is Nick different from Bartholos? Having the year here and not on Gwen's page seems strange (I assume we don't know when Gwen dies?) King Adelbern's page has a link to the GW2 wiki without stating any of the information found in GW2 on this wiki. Can we at least be consistent enough to do the same thing for all characters? - Mattrellen (talk) 00:51, 16 May 2013 (UTC)"

Concensus was never reached actually, the "invicible" problem in the middle is the bad administration of a maquiavelic sysop, since GWW:1RR#Resolving disputes was not followed. A sysop proceeding against current policies...lol...

...and not to mention the Traveler&diff=prev&oldid=2538758|"noise comments", if what you are going to say doesn't help the discussion... don't say anything.

---

If having the spoiler is still an annoyance to future readers, disagree again. Yoshida Keiji(talk) 11:10, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

While I do agree with this, you will do note that the only active sysops here... don't seem to follow the letter of the rules, but the so called, "Spirit" as I have been observing and noticing this and I refuse to say much to keep from "butting heads" with them. May we try to come to some kind of 'consensus' on things like this, before it fills up the wiki. Things of gww need fixing, but not by adding gw2 info. Rodan (talk) 18:59, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

April 8, 2013 Kessex Peak

Kessex Peak, same place, same item, 2 Forest Minotaur Horn 173.25.192.118 19:12, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

June 17, 2013 Anvil Rock

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/8/84/Nicholas_the_Traveler_20090921.jpg same as before, 2 Frostfire Fangs. MrMetalFLower (talk) 15:41, 17 June 2013 (UTC)

July 7/13 - Hidden City of Ahdashim

He's here at Hidden City of Ahdashim, screenshot, feel free to edit my screenshot to add in location --- Wracken (talk) 18:54, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

22nd July 2013. Location and Items.

I posted this in discussion on the research page by accident, didn't realise I had to post it here. But He is in Kinya Province collecting 5 Copper Crimson Skull coins per gift. Easiest way to describe, is he's at the opposite side of the mountain to where he was on 8th November 2010. Almost directly opposite. (Edited because I got the date wrong) --Master Monty (talk) 22:28, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Can not find Nicholas anywhere in Kinya Province. 70.168.35.229 00:00, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Confirmed: http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/154561Sanstitre.jpg --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 176.181.101.151 (talk) at 01:53, 23 July 2013‎ (UTC).

70.168, Do you have WoC active? Rodan (talk) 04:05, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Nope. Normal spawns. I have started WoC but I'm done with all the "Cleansing" quests. 13:50, 23 July 2013 (UTC) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 176.181.101.151 (talk).

He may not appear for you, because you have it active. Tried the guy in Kaineng and then see if he'd appear? Rodan (talk) 16:35, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Is 70.168 and 176.181 the same person? Cause you asked 70.168 the question and 176.181 is answering. --Silver Edge 21:08, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

That is interesting and yes my question was directed to a particular one. Rodan (talk) 03:37, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Aug 12

Elonian leather squares in Jahai Bluffs (got right Talk Page now)80.85.98.167 16:40, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

2nd He is there collecting 5 per gift --User:Ickoization 23:14, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

He's in the middle of the zone, just south of where it says "Jahai Bluffs" on the map. FYI, Enbe [Materials] can craft them, and she's right outside Kodonur Crossroads. 64.60.100.162 23:56, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Sep 9

3 Icy Humps per gift. He is located in the center of Iron Horse Mines, at the top (north) of the zone. User Siorai Banrion

Confirmed !

Same place as before in a previous collection for this. Would be a nice easy farm! Rodan (talk) 05:40, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Sep 16

One sandblasted lodestone per gift. He is in Shattered Ravines near the s.w. exit to the Alkali Pan. Farm page says Basalt Grotto is best place to leave from for farm - head out west exit and down hill to the south, get in a wurm and kill the nearby groups of elementals (Crags, mesas). User Siorai Banrion

And if people don't like wurms, they can farm in Poisoned Outcrops. Exit from LoTF and take the path to the right, continue on north across the bridge. There are about 14-15 elementals on the way, and you can solo them. 84.49.75.226 14:56, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Sep 23

3 black pearls per gift. Located right outside of Cavalon in the Archipelagos just east of the "S" on the island. He is located in the same area as March 14th 2011.

Guides

=== Guides ===
; Farming guides for the currently requested item
* Guild Wiki
* PvX Wiki

Both of these links are no longer updated and could be removed. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.141.104.212 (talk) at 09:41, 6 November 2013 (UTC).

Those pages are still useful even if they aren't updated. Most, if not all, of the individual Guild Wiki pages about the items that Nicholas collects has farming information, which most of the item pages on this wiki lacks (e.g. compare the farming section of Guild Wiki's Water Djinn Essence page to the one on this wiki). The PvX Wiki page can also be used to find farming information by clicking the edit button at the top of that page, entering this week's Nicholas requested item in the "Material 1" or "Material 2" parameter on that page's Guide:Nicholas the Traveler Farming/Template template, and then clicking the "Show preview" button at the bottom of the edit window; although, PvX Wiki doesn't have farming information for every Nicholas requested item. --Silver Edge 11:30, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

I have since added additional links to that section. --Silver Edge 12:42, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

In fairness lol the gwpvx listings on that page were one user's (my) attempt to reorganise it. the archive contained date sorted entries, I just never got around to finishing the "/item list". -Chieftain Alex 14:10, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Just to note: I've reverted your changes to Nicholas the Traveler/Remaining Locations in favor of using a dpl call at the top of the page to calculate it instead by adding a new variable to Template:Nicholas the Traveler research.page instead - this means it updates at the same time as everything else. (less things to change this way) -Chieftain Alex 14:28, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

I had another idea for pvx... Alex/Nicholas list#Water_Djinn_Essence alex farming guide -Chieftain Alex 18:34, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Comments noted but perhaps the title can be changed to "General Farming Guides" rather than "Farming Guides for the currently requested item". When there are no updates for at least 6 months for a "current" item the time has surely come to rename. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.141.104.141:50738 (talk).

The section name has been changed by Chieftain Alex. --Silver Edge 21:31, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Would the addition to Template:Nicholas the Traveler research.page work for item names that are inputted as plural or uses piped links in Nicholas the Traveler/Research? E.g. [[Scorched Lodestone]]s is used instead of [[Scorched Lodestone]] or [[Bolt of Linen|Bolts of Linen]] is used instead of [[Bolt of Linen]] on Nicholas the Traveler/Research. It probably wouldn't be an issue if GuildWiki has redirects for all plural terms of items requested by Nicholas. --Silver Edge 21:31, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Yeah the {{#explode: {{#explode: {{#sub: {{{3|}}} | 2 }} | ]] }} | {{!}} }} bit does all of that. From the middle: it removes the first two characters - the brackets, it then takes the bit before the final closing brackets, and then it takes the first bit of the string before the pipe... so in summary it delinks stuff to make it link to the right item page.

PvX has a quirk (that I made) - the pages use the plural. I've edited the PvX traveler/list version so that it takes the link to the single item and shows the article for the plural. -Chieftain Alex 21:58, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

November 4 2013 dialogue

So it appears that the typo has been fixed. I ran to him today (November 9), and saw that it now says "adventurer," not "aventurer." However, I couldn't figure out how to edit it. Could someone please change it? Ailina (talk) 00:36, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

sorry for the confusing walls of templates on this page, seemed the easiest way at the time I'm sure. I've corrected the dialogue on Nicholas the Traveler/Dialogue. -Chieftain Alex 01:13, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

NIck in Sparkfly has a new location

Nick is up by the dungeon entrance this time Durp da durp (talk) 20:42, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Good map - reuploaded under the Nicholas naming convention. (steve; your map was also ace, but had some unexplored bits :) ) -Chieftain Alex 22:19, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Lol. I now challenge you to create the perfect map, Alex. As good as his and as ace as mine.

Even better: Create two and put them up for vote.

They have to be 100% explored, of course. And version one is a perfect beeline from Gadd's Encampment to the location. Whereas the other one would be straight to Res Shrine 1, then 2 and then to the location.

I think you should really go for it, and make the wiki more perfect.

Would be really swell of you. ;)

Gogogo, what are you waiting for? ^^ Steve1 (talk) 18:40, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Got 99 progs, but gw ain't 1. Albeit unexplored, the straight route is at File:Bogroot Growths route.jpg lol. -Chieftain Alex 18:52, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

That ain't cuttin' it. It's got undiscovered bits. No bloke, that's a no go. :P

I used to have avast! as well. Changed back to avira a while back. Supposedly better performance.

How come you're a wiki big shot when you don't even have the game installed any more? Isn't that getting boring? Steve1 (talk) 19:55, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

I've got a copy of the .dat somewhere on my network, client is quick enough to download. its a fear of killing the tiny amount of time I have to do work. -Chieftain Alex 20:45, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Tango down. -Chieftain Alex 22:18, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Not too bad! *pat pat* Steve1 (talk) 17:31, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

January 27, 2014

In Bjora Marches collecting 1 Jotun pelt per gift. Leave from Longeye's Ledge and head north, then west. Location is near the map marker for "Blood Washes Blood".

19th May 2015

Dragon's Gullet. 3 Gruesome Ribcage's, and he's a little west of his previous spawn in this area. Anon-e-mouse (talk) 16:14, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

2nd June 2014

Nicholas is in Scoundrel's Rise collecting 3 Bog Skale Fins per gift. As you enter from North Kryta Province, just stick to the right and you'll find him a short way in. Master Monty (talk) 17:05, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

28 July 2014

Looks like it is a repeat of cycle 2 as he is in Mineral Springs this week, same spot as last time.

It looks like Tub's search for Nick tool is about to become redundant. You can just read off the next location from here:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Nicholas_the_Traveler/Research

I'll think about automating it then. Thanks for the update. -Chieftain Alex 17:45, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Flowers

The 4th rotation begins; next flower request is due 30-months from now! --Falconeye (talk) 21:44, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

2020 Stormy eyes - bug found

For this week (last of 2020) Stormy eyes are the item to get. When you enter from Serenity temple the spawns seems to be fixed to spawn less Storm Riders, so I exited to Eastern Frontier and re-entered to fix the spawn pattern (which it did - alot more Storm Riders spawned. The exit seems to also have removed the npc collector at the Nich spwn, Nich and the professor. Which would be proof that a new temporary area replaces the old for Nich, and that one entrance to the new area here is not leading to the new area but the old one to retain farming for those in the know. In Eastern the 3 npc's near the gate starter talking as per usual - but i had NILL quests active. That could also be an impacting fator as they usually start a quest, but did not do so now (uncertain if i have done that one with the char i used, a factions char).

Confirmed: Each attempt made to locate Nicholas via the Serenity Temple exit was met with him as well as the collector missing. However, rezoning via Regent Valley back to Pockmark spawned both. There seems to be a bug with that exit.

It's more complicated: I left Serenity Temple, went directly to Eastern Frontier and re-entered Pockmarks from there. Went to Nick, neither he nor the regular collector was present. Trudged to Regent Valley (almost dying of boredom), re-entered. Still no Nick nor the regular collector. No Qs in my log which should affect those areas. Steve1 (talk) 13:47, 30 December 2020 (UTC)

i ran to him on 3 accnts. two accounts from serenity temple, first one he was there, second he wasn't, zoned back to st and ran again he was there. 3rd accnt just had ranik, he was there after working my way to him from ranik. All accnts had no quests in the ascalon area. Durp da durp (talk) 05:03, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Week of January 23rd, 2023: Feathered Caromi Scalps

When I get near Ascalon Settlement, everyone has disappeared and my character makes the statement: "The inhabitants of this settlement have been evacuated while the White Mantle threaten Lion's Arch." I have finished WiK and have no quests active for Wanted or anything else. Is there a reason this is happening?SuperJ 21:24, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Is it possible you accepted a quest which changes the area and then dismissed said quest? Iirc, in such a case sometimes the cahnges to the area persist. But my memory might be faulty.

The cause shoud be a quest though. Steve1 (talk) 18:36, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

I figured it out. Even though I had no quests active, I accepted a wanted quest in Queen Salma's area, zoned back in to LA and then abandoned it and this fixed the area for me. SuperJ 02:38, 25 January 2023 (UTC)