Talk:Sunspear rank

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Progression research[edit]

At rank 8 I have a duration of 9 seconds for Seed of Life. -- Gordon Ecker 04:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm adding this cause the skill pages have lower numbers than what I have at max rank. If I find any other chars with different rank I'll add them.
At r10: 20 warrior, 25/3 ranger, 10 monk, 75 necro, 100 mesmer, 25% ele, 15/25 sin, 10/90/20/20 rit, 35/60 para, 100 derv.
At r9: 18 warrior, 24/3 ranger, 9 monk, 69 necro, 92 mesmer, 24 ele, 14/23 sin, 9/82/9/9 rit, 32%/55 para, 92 derv.
At r6: 14 warrior, 21/2 ranger, 8 monk, 57 necro, 76 mesmer, 21 ele, 11/19 sin, 6/66/16/16 rit, 27/44 para, 76 derv.
At r5: 12 warrior, 20/2 ranger, 7 monk, 51 necro, 68 mesmer, 20 ele, 10/17 sin, 5/58/15/15 rit, 24/38 para, 68 derv.
At r4: 11 warrior, 19/2 ranger, 7 monk, 48 necro, 64 mesmer, 19 ele. (ran out of hero points) - BeX 05:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC) Edited: 05:46, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Can you double-check the rank 9 mesmer? --Rezyk 05:20, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
It's definitely 92 damage. - BeX 05:32, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Ahh, I see why..sneaky ArenaNet... --Rezyk 06:22, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Argh, you stopped right before giving me enough info to make a complete prediction! =) (I need either assassin or ritualist stats at rank 4) --Rezyk 15:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Assassin skill is 10/16 and rit skill is 5/54/14/14 at R4. --Dirigible 17:24, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

You can't buy skills before rank 1. - BeX 05:54, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Rank 10 seems to be 15 attrib - if the scaling's the same between all skills and Sunspear ranks, we can interpolate without having to strictly confirm all data. ~Seef II <> 08:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

That would explain the uneven progression. I'm guessing the skills use a "virtual attribute" with a rank equal to 1.5*(title rank) before rounding or truncation, if this is correct then we should be able to find a formula to correctly interpolate the progression from the 0 and 10 values. -- Gordon Ecker 08:31, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Whirlwind Attack[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Damage ? ? ? 11 12 14 15 17 18 20

Never Rampage Alone[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Duration ? ? ? 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Regeneration ? ? ? 2 2 2 2 3 3 3

Seed of Life[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Duration ? 6 ? 6 7 8 8 9 9 10
Illusion Magic
(with Signet of Illusions)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Duration 5 5 6 6 6 7 7 7 8 8 8 9 9  ?  ?  ?  ?

Necrosis[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Damage 33 39 ? 48 51 57 60 66 69 75
Illusion Magic
(with Signet of Illusions)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Damage 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78

Cry of Pain[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Damage ? ? ? 64 68 76 80 88 92 100
Illusion Magic
(with Signet of Illusions)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Damage 40 44 48 52 56 60 64 68 72 76 80 84 88 92 96 100 104

Intensity[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Damage bonus percentage ? ? ? 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
Illusion Magic
(with Signet of Illusions)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Damage bonus percentage 15 16 16 17 18 18 19 20 20 21 22 22 23 24 24 25 26

Critical Agility[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Duration ? ? ? ? 10 11 12 13 14 15
Armor ? ? ? ? 17 19 20 22 23 25
Illusion Magic
(with Signet of Illusions)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Duration ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Armor ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Vampirism[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Level ? ? ? ? 5 6 7 8 9 10
Duration ? ? ? ? 58 66 70 78 82 90
Stealing ? ? ? ? 15 16 17 18 19 20
Healing ? ? ? ? 15 16 17 18 19 20

"There's Nothing to Fear!"[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Percentage ? 19 ? ? 24 27 28 31 32 35
Healing ? 28 ? ? 38 44 47 52 55 60

Eternal Aura[edit]

Sunspear rank 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Damage ? ? ? ? 68 76 80 88 92 100
Illusion Magic
(with Signet of Illusions)
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
Damage ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Speculated formula[edit]

It looks very much like:

VR = round(V0+floor(1.5*R)*(V10-V0)/15)
where Vx is the value at Sunspear rank x

with Gordon Ecker's guess being right on the money. The values in the update notes represent 0..8.

It likely cannot go lower than V10 for the top determining endpoint. V8 was looking okay for a while but got eliminated by assassin/ritualist rank 4 values.

This has some discrepancies with the empirical research:

  • Seed of Life at rank 4 has been reported at values 6 and 7. I predict 7.
  • "There's Nothing to Fear!" has been filled in with 15 & 20 at rank 1. I predict 23 & 36 16 & 23.
  • "There's Nothing to Fear!" rank 5 healing 38 health? I predict 39.

--Rezyk 19:19, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

  • 7 is correct.
  • No clue.
  • 39 is correct.
Good stuff. --Dirigible 19:34, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Testing with Signet of Illusions also supports the "virtual attribute" theory. I'll post the results soon. -- Gordon Ecker 08:38, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Sunspear rank 0 1 ? ? ? ? 4 5   6 7   8 9   10  
Effective attribute 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Here's the table. Intensity doesn't match up at title rank 9, but it otherwise fits. -- Gordon Ecker 09:05, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

The Necrosis one isn't really fitting right is it? I'm levelling my Necro now so r1 and 2 are definitely the values I've added there. When I get r3 I'll add that too. - BeX 09:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Heroes and Sunspear rank linked to account[edit]

moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

I'm not sure where I would state this, so i'm going to ask you. Would having Heroes and sunspear rank linked to the account instead of the character a good idea? I have 8 characters, all of them i've accomplished at least one campaign with. I find that I keep having to train new heroes over and over and over. With sunspear rank linked to account, veteran NF players wouldn't have to farm for sunspear points just to make use of these new skills. Luxon/Kurzick points are account based, and I find it works out better. Please make sure they don't change that. haha. I recently made a new Dervish, and i'm at the point where I have to level up my sunspear rank to get past the quest and move on to the next part of the game. I've reached 25,000 Sunspear points after countless LB and Sunspear farming runs, and I just dont want to have to go thru this again for each character to make their skill useful or get past the next part of the game. Please tell me what you think, and maybe forward this idea to devs if you think its a good idea =). Or not. haha. It's okay. 24.254.58.190 01:26, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Sunspear is significantly easier to get than Allegiance. - BeX 02:24, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Not really. 400 Kurzick in 3 minutes on a solo luts run, ~1 minute on a 4-person luts... Sunspear requires (for the most irritating part of the grind, when characters aren't level 20 and haven't capped every elite) doing the same minute, irritating quests around Yohlon Haven over and over in order to continue the storyline. Heck, I've even started to memorize some of the lines because I've been forced to do them so much. I'm all for grinding when the rewards are nice, but when the reward is merely continuing on with more boring kourna-area missions... it just isn't worth it. -Auron 03:12, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Sunspear is still easier to get for the average PvE player. You don't need a special build or have to wait around for a battle to start. My point though, is that if they were to make Sunspear account wide, they would have to make the requirements on par with Allegiance. - BeX 04:36, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Using Wurms your SS and LB points are maxable in a Day, making it for whole account would mean you have to get not 50k but maybe X times that, so getting to same on two characters will take X times longer. Besides, SS and LB sepose to be Personal accomplishments of individual character as getting "recognition" and LB points are requirement on Istan missions/quests making it account wide would change it to level requirements so you will be forced to have level 17 before you leave. Biz 05:35, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
My characters were always level 20 when leaving Istan anyhow. -Gildan Bladeborn 20:41, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Acquisition[edit]

These Sunspear skills are only available via hero skill trainers right? I wanted to add a note regarding this to each of the skill pages, but I'm not 100% sure. -- ab.er.rant sig 09:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Well no, the Sunspear Rebirth Signet is the only sunspear skill which is available only through Runduk who is not a hero skill trainer. --Jamie (Talk Page) 09:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
He means the ones introduced in the update a week-ish back, and I believe he's correct. Armond 14:10, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I cannot get the trainers to give me the Cry of Pain. All they offer are the new Eye of the North stuff. How to get them to give me the older Cry of Pain skill? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Mesmodeus Psi .
You can only get them from three specific hero skill trainers: Pikin in Kamadan, Shiloh in the Sunspear Great Hall and Libeh in the Command Post. There used to be a note about it, but it seems to have been lost due to an edit conflict, it's been re-added. -- Gordon Ecker 10:38, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Table & Notes[edit]

I think a lot of notes at the bottom of the page would be best included in the table as an extra column (bounties, quest, ...). I'm willing to do it if there's no objections. Alaris 19:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


Anomality?[edit]

I may be wrong on this, but in actual navy rank, doesnt the capitan outrank the commander? if this is the case, shouldnt it be switched around in the sunspear rank? just a thought....

While true in naval ranks, other rank names are army ranks, with commander being the exception. In army ranks captain is lower (US Army Captain == US Navy Lieutenant, iirc). --Valshia 00:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
ahh, I did not know that. Thanks for clearing that up.


Error[edit]

Should I change the bottom comment saying the green numbers goes from 0-8 where it actualy goes from 0-10 134.198.8.162 18:49, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Changed. Thanks, good spot. -- ab.er.rant sig 02:33, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
It was changed in the August 23rd update but we forgot to update this page. -- Gordon Ecker 05:39, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Updated[edit]

Whirlwind Attack[edit]

Sunspear rank 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Damage 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Does Sunspear tier level affect quest rewards?[edit]

I know that bounties can not be obtained in normal mode after attaining Sunspear tier 8, but is the same true for Sunspear points awarded as quest rewards? Kirbett 01:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

There's no restrictions, other than the normal ones (non-Elonain char, mutual-exclusive quests, etc). --8765 02:04, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
Once you've accepted a quest, all of its rewards are always received once you complete it. The bounties restriction is only to deter high-level characters from farming low-level areas. -- ab.er.rant User Ab.er.rant Sig.png 14:36, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

What rank to place in the HoM?[edit]

What rank do you have to be to place this title in the HoM--Unendingfear User Unendingfear Crane.jpg 02:31, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

I followed your HoM link, and found that according to the Honor page, you need max rank. That would be Legendary Spearmarshal. 76.30.79.54 03:11, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Oh, opps. Thanks anyways :)--Unendingfear User Unendingfear Crane.jpg 03:24, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Aquisition problem[edit]

I had a Factions character level 20 Who had not achieved sunspear rank 1 (I wanted Vampirism skill for rit) so I went outside Kamadan in NM and talked to the scout. But I was told I was too great a hero... is there a level restriction as well as a rank restriction to taking the bountys? Comming back out in Hard Mode allowed me to get the Bounty and I quickly attained Sunspear 1 for the skill MrPaladin talk 17:53, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Hm, there's some information on this in the talk page at Bounty at least. This is something I feel I've known about for a while. I thought wa had a chart on it but maybe that was on guildwiki. I think the cap is level ten for Plains of Jarin in normal mode, it may be higher or non-existant in the farther parts of Istan like ... wherever the treausres are, names elude me.
I do know that my Elonan characters often outlevel Jarin before they leave Istan, I think ... --Star Weaver 17:59, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok seems like the tables on the bounty page need to reflect some level cap also... tho I donno what these levels are. MrPaladin talk 18:03, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Based on the brief testing I did before all my characters' sunspear ranks were too high to get normal mode bounties anywhere in Istan, it seems that you can only get the bounty in zones where there are appropriate foes who will yield experience. For example, in Issnur Isles, the highest level Insect Hunt targets are level 15 Stalking Nephilas, while the highest level Skale Hunt targets (other than the quest boss Moa'vu'Kaal) are level 14 Frigid Skales, at level 20, monsters must be level 15 or higher to yield experience. When I did testing with a level 20 character, I could get Insect Hunt, but not Skale Hunt, while I was unable to get Insect Hunt in lower level Istan zones. I don't know if quest NPCs or bosses affect bounty availability. If my conclusion is correct, we'd need to list maximum levels separately for each zone, which may be more appropriate to do in the individual zone articles. -- User Gordon Ecker sig.png Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:11, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
The fastest way for a level 20 foreign character to get Sunspear points in Istan in Normal Mode is the non-repeatable A Land of Heroes quest. You'll get two 4 point bounties which cover everything you fight during the quest. -- User Gordon Ecker sig.png Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:25, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Large Discrepancy?[edit]

Why does it shoot from 15k needed for rank 9 to 50k for rank 10? I mean, every other title rises at a steady pace, but for Sunspear there is a large jump from 9 to 10, and it seems a bit much for 2 more points of effectiveness for skills. Was there originally planned to be 12 ranks and they cut two, or what is the deal here? Lynx Raven Raide 21:51, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

When Nightfall was released, the title only had 9 ranks and the only Sunspear skill was Sunspear Rebirth Signet. The February 14th, 2007 update added the 10th rank, which required 30,000 points. In the April 19th, 2007 update, which also added hard mode, the point requirement was raised to 50,000. By the way, rank 8 requires 3 times as many total points as rank 7. -- User Gordon Ecker sig.png Gordon Ecker (talk) 10:47, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Sunspear ranks and benefits[edit]

Aquisition of the Sunspear Rebirth Signet: The rank needed for non-Elona chars ist listed as Second Spear (rank 3) here but as First Spear (rank 4) on the Sunspear Rebirth Signet page. Which version is the correct one?85.182.9.177 10:56, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I can get it on my factions monk at rank 3 (but don't see any reason to). 98.23.140.91 02:20, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Started at Rank 5?[edit]

I took my long time Proph and EotN character to Kourna for the first time a week ago. As soon as I landed on the shores, I seemed to have a Rank(5) already. How is this possible? I just bought Nightfall so I'm very confused. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:67.174.66.17 (talk).

Please sign, and you do LOADS of things that grant Sunspear points between Arrival at the Istan and Kourna--Lord Randy 05:58, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, A Land of Heroes, and other quests bring you're Sunspear Rank up quickly. Also, you may have taken bounties which give Sunspear points. — User Balistic Pve Sig.png Balistic 06:06, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Rank 11 ?[edit]

The skills that are linked to this rank all (?) show values for rank 11. How is this possible?--Cyberman User Cyberman Mastermind Sig.gif 17:26, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

signet of illusions 206.116.32.218 20:50, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Dajkah Inlet[edit]

The challenge mission at Dajkah Inlet rewards 50 Sunspear points for killing each Corsair Guild Lord. This would be a really awful way to farm Sunspear points since a single pass through all three maps takes an average player like me about 15 minutes and will only return 250 points, but I think it should at least be included in the article under Acquisition. - Beporter 02:23, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

No feedback since May (I forgot about it too!) so I added it under acquisition. - Beporter 15:32, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
Well... Could add something about hero armor in ()'s 74.138.31.170

This of any use?[edit]

SS Points.png

Thought it was interesting ~Nelson (n122333) User N122333 sig image.jpg 19:22, 27 May 2011 (UTC).

It's worth having posted here on the talk page; I don't think it needs to be in the main article: almost every title shows exponential growth in requirements (i.e. the last rank usually takes as many points as all the previous ranks put together). — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:33, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

After Rank[edit]

Funny how you keep getting points after achieving Legendary Spearmarshal. How much point did you collect? I've got about 90k and haven't yet done. Entroop 16:43, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Table for quests[edit]

I'm opening up this section to start working on a table to list out the quests on the main page - feel free to jump in and help!

I'm modeling this table after the kurzick faction table.

Quest Promotion Points Experience Gold Type Given by Location Notes
A Decayed Monument 15 2000 200 - Vadben Cliffs of Dohjok Elonian Only
A Leap of Faith 15 1500 125 - Behron Cliffs of Dohjok
The Ancient Forest 750 3000 250 - Scholar Andrej House zu Heltzer
The Experimental Weaponsmith 750 3000 250 - Scholar Andrej House zu Heltzer
Melodic Gaki Flute 750 3000 250 - Vasili Lutgardis House zu Heltzer
Discord Wallow Lyre 750 3000 250 - Vasili Lutgardis House zu Heltzer
Rhythm Drinker Drum 750 3000 250 - Vasili Lutgardis House zu Heltzer
Song and Stone 1000 5000 350 - Count zu Heltzer House zu Heltzer
Wardens On the March 750 3000 250 - Rutger zu Heltzer House zu Heltzer
Envoy of the Dredge 750 3000 250 - Moleneaux Ferndale
Temple of the Dredge 750 3000 250 - Moleneaux Ferndale
Revolt of the Dredge 750 3000 250 - Moleneaux Ferndale
Kurzick Supply Lines 400 2000 150 Repeatable quest Supplymaster Konrad Ferndale
Scouting Ferndale 400 2000 150 Repeatable quest Forestmaster Vasha Ferndale
Total 10050 47500 3625