User talk:Isaiah Cartwright/Izzy Talk Archive 18

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[edit] Skill feedback

Your builds always make me wonder if you're joking. If not, do you even play this game? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:75.165.101.144 (talk).

You're contradicting yourself. If he makes builds, then he's playing the game. Or do you mean skill updates? 145.94.74.23 07:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
He means builds as in builds of guildwars, not skill bars. --66.45.173.98 17:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I knew that. But why can't he say so himself? Without signing? That's not a very noble thing to do. 145.94.74.23 18:59, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Tin Dao Kaineng and the 'Spirit Rift'

  • Tin Dao Kaineng, as you may know, is a boss in Shing Jea Island that is present during a quest called Sentimental Treasures from Miller Quang. During that quest you have to go down to the little lighthouse and grab his box, and before the box is an not-so-innocent ritualist boss, Tin Dao Kaineng. Fine, the henchmen start killing the boss. Suddenly this small globe of light rises from the ground and VANQUISHES A WHOLE PARTY in ONE BLOW, which is not normal for a lvl 16 boss. My complaint is: Tin Dao Kaineng is an overpowered boss because of his Spirit Rift.

Please fix. I have made 6-9 monks to get survivor, about 5 or 6 have died to this sucker. thanks.

I am laughing so hard from this. --216.113.208.150 22:01, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree that he's a powerful boss, but honestly, after 2 of your survivor characters died from this boss, why did you try again? Just ignore him until you have max armor or something. 145.94.74.23 07:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Or learn to kite :p Lilondra 14:39, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

That glowing ball, it can't move. You can.
Also, if it's not a primary quest, don't do it. ~Shard (talk) 21:47, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
The problem, I think, is more that your five henchies are too dumb to move away (and honestly, who groups shing jea without a level 20 these days?). When I made my survivor necro, yeah, this guy gave me some trouble (as did the cave of naga for the necro primary quest), and I can see where he'd be a big problem for new players.
That said, it's not too hard to send in your henchies, let them wipe, flag them back, rebirth, and repeat, or even just grab a guildie and have him wipe them. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 16:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wounding Strike

Hi Izzy this skill needs a nerf fast before it gets overly abused by bad teams.
3 of those D/Es kick too much *ss for monks to handle. I'm really confused with this update, all you did with this update was to nerf the previous meta. Ohhh and please stop updating the game right before the mAT cause thats just annoying as hell. 212.242.184.220 05:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with Wounding Strike the issue is in the damage add stacking with Strength of Honor and Conjures it's going to be popular in the monthly be interesting to see who figures out how to deal with it the best, it's something I'll probably address after next update. Izzy @-'---- 06:48, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Shhh, don't tell them of all the nifty, and not so nifty, anti-melee skills and tactics in the game or all the rather nice enchantment removals. People might final start to use their heads and improving their own playing skills rather than running here for nerfs all the time for what ever skill/build they want to blame for losing. ;) ~ User:Sabastian Sabastian 07:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I like the fact that you clearly know the issue, but tend to do nothing about it? Izzy have you even looked into the R/D that doesnt even use Conjures but just Wounding Strike? They are overpowered too, but according to you they are perfectly fine since theres nothing wrong with Wounding. You have a skill that gives Deep wound + cover condition every 3 seconds HOLY ****. I'm very sorry that i have to sound like an ass to get my point through, but seriously wow! Oh and Sabastian whoru?, do you even have a clue about how hard it is to monk against 3 of those? Everyone is crying about how broken it is. Your suggestion is clearly that we should run the Anti melee builds that just got nerfed (Aegis - B-surge) + have s-loads of enchantremovals. Basicly you are suggesting that people should just run antibuilds. We all know Build Wars in funny. Sorry for my lack of english skills.´08:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Then again, it is also an Elite Skill that doesn't deal any damage. Deep Wound, while powerful, isn't more powerful when three people use it instead of just one, and so is bleeding (which is easily countered too). I for one prefer elites to actually make a difference, to actually be powerful, and Wounding Strike is just that: powerful. But not unstoppable. It is an example of a well balanced skill, with its own downsides. 145.94.74.23 09:24, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

With the Downside being both conditions only if enchanted while the dervish build has its own almost necessary enchantments? Or did you ment another downside? Give it a longer recharge. Seriously.

When I complain about this people just say "shut up and bring mending touch" but I don't have Nightfall.
"Your suggestion is clearly that we should run the Anti melee builds that just got nerfed (Aegis - B-surge) + have s-loads of enchantremovals. Basicly you are suggesting that people should just run antibuilds. We all know Build Wars in funny." Wow, simply amusing. Why don't you read what I said once again and use your head. In the game called Guild Wars you can run into anything and melee has been a dominating damage type for a long time. If you don't bother to bring some of the basic counters or know some of the basic counters then that isn't a balancing issue. Also, enchantments are very common and so are ways to remove enchantments. You just have to use your head when it comes to using them. Oh, and yes I have played against the builds as a monk and the first time it caused a lot of issues but we still won. After wards the team, and myself, just changed our style/strategy a little to make it easier since they are very predictable. Also, the R/D are the easiest to beat if you have any skill what so ever and you know, I'm not that skilled at this game yet they don't pose a threat. ;) ~ User:Sabastian Sabastian 17:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
The problem with Wounding Strike and R/Ds is that the player can headbutt their keyboard and do well. This is really a problem with any scythe build because scythes only have damage, while Warriors need to use well placed knockdowns to be effective, thus Warriors require skill and anything with a scythe does not. Offensive characters need to create and take advantage of opportunities to actually kill stuff. When they don't need to do that, the character takes no skill. --TimeToGetIntense 18:31, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Honestly im really not trying to piss you off or anything, but daaaamn i want to see you handle three of those dervishes really cause apparently you got 12 enchant removals which you use on the dervishes + you have the ability to make your team block 3 * Wounding strike, seriously why dont you just join a really good gvg guild. Apparently you are better than most monks out there. GFG. What teambuild are you running geez? Block way... wow. So i´'ll do you all a favor and not write anymore, my main thing was to prove my point which has been done. GL HF Ty for the quick response Izzy i really appreciate that even though we clearly disagree here.

I've never seen a R/D with this as a problem. The problem I've seen with R/D is a little something known as escapeway (in polite terms that is). Wounding strike is stopped by anything remotely resembling a melee counter, one of the most common meta skills, Restore Condition, heals it easily and has a SHORTER recharge than this skill. Stop spamming Word of Healing and thinking that you should be able to stand against 3 of ANYTHING as a monk, except another monk. Stall wars needs to end, and if this helps, keep it. --Kalas Silvern 09:38, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

You clearly know nothing about the meta though. RC aint gonna be up because of a continuesly Sig of Humility..

...which affects any elite including wounding strike? Seems like a question of teams adapting to situations rather than this skill adapting to current players like wild blow vs escapeway at the cost of adrenaline spike builds. There are always options some better than others... --Don Knowall 11:06, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
You can disable any skill for a minute with Diversion, therefore no skill is overpowered. --TimeToGetIntense 03:31, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
OR U CAN KILL? THAT WORKS TOO, AMIRITE? GET 5 WARRIOR AND 3 NECROES, RUN IWAY, U R WINRAR? -- NUKLEAR IIV 16:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Izzy thinks a 5Energy, 3Recharge time unconditional ++ with possible is fine. I'm speechless. 72.235.48.41 01:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, the deep wound comes BEFORE the bleeding :P Also the skill is fine, you CANNOT Restore Condition it because it is on a 3 second recharge and usually more than 1 person is using the skill, however it is in the same boat as hex pressure was, back in the day. Only instead of applying say, -7 degen, it applies -3 BUT -20% maximum health and -20% healing on target. As Izzy, and many others have pointed out, it isn't the skill, but the combo the skill goes in, that is making the difference. -Madda--86.13.248.50 22:23, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I am with Izzy on this one, Wounding Strike in itself is ok, it's only when combined with high critical damage from a scythe that it becomes overpowered. In PvE, that is still fine. In PvP, well, PvP players should know how to spread out just enough not to get 3 people hit by 1 attack (it's range isn't large by any standard). 145.94.74.23 21:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and, 72.235.48.41...it is not unconditional. Read the skill before you comment on it please.
Conditionals on Dervish skills are a joke. "Lose one enchantment." "While enchanted" "While not enchanted" etc... give me a break. Those conditions are ignored, you just load up the right skillbar and it plays itself. The Dervish is a joke of a class. --TimeToGetIntense 22:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
True, but even a condition that is easy to fufill is a condition. Some people here tend to be overdramatic (including me at times). 87.210.150.58 13:51, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
So you think wounding strike is only good because scythes have it? Why isn't Twisting Fangs a lead attack with a 3 second recharge? Why doesn't Dismember cost 2 adrenaline? Wounding strike is broken because it's perma DW spam.
Also, being enchanted isn't a condition. A condition is a special case you have to put effort (or luck) into meeting. Being enchanted (something 4 people on the average 8-man team can do) is about as conditional as eating cereal. ~Shard (talk) 11:45, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Well you gotta realize that the people at ANET think it's a condition, so I think the best feedback is "Well, it's too easy to meet." Also Wounding Strike is elite, while those skills are not. Not that I think that makes it balanced, but again, that's what the devs think probably. --TimeToGetIntense 22:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Twisting Fangs also deals +40 additional damage, Wounding Strike doesn't. Dismember cost adrenaline, and is unconditional. You guys are whining and being overdramatic. There are three assumptions that you guys make that are just plain wrong. So let me repeat: A) 3 Wounding Strikes are NOT stronger than 1. B) Being enchanted is NOT unconditional. You will need a skill to combo with, either on yourself or on another player (Aegis is about the only skill that will enchant you without people putting special effort in enchanting you) C) Good PvP players never stand so close that Dervishes can reliably hit three of them at the same time, over and over again.

Seriously, if this were a Swordsmanship skill, everyone would whine on how underpowered is was compared to Crippling Slash. 145.94.74.23 07:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Gee, I wonder why Sword's only deep wound is conditional and takes 7 hits to apply. Maybe swords are just the worst weapons int the game.
For the last time, the Deep Wound on Murdering Strike is NOT conditional. Being hexed is a condition. Being below 50% health is a condition. Hell, even having a condition is a condition. Having a skill sitting on your bar is not. You can argue all you want, but math doesn't lie, and if you can't understand that, why are you here? Scythes being broken is a fact, not an opinion. ~Shard (talk) 08:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Math is never wrong, only the people who apply it. 145.94.74.23 09:08, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I disagree Shard, Scythes are not broken, just too easy to use. Also to 145.94.74.23, the condition is so easy to meet that the skill is bad for the game. The weapon is so powerful that it does not need damage bonuses. The drawback is slow attack speed, however, there are 1 second activation skills to completely remove that drawback, furthermore, since the weapon has enough natural damage to spike when using said 1 second activation attack skills, all it needs is a Deep Wound skill, so the lower the recharge on your DW the better. Wounding Strike is powerful because it is on Scythe and because 1 second activation attacks also exist for Scythe. It enables you to spike for 200-300 damage including DW every 3-4 seconds. Again, I want to remind you all that Dervishes only have pure damage, which owns right now due to lack of defense in the metagame. --TimeToGetIntense 09:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

I totally agree with that statement, though you must also admit that it requires a bit of luck. A critical hit might go for as much as 300, but if you swing for only 9 damage, the best you'll get is around 130, including a -120 health Deep Wound. 145.94.74.23 11:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Uhh, Izzy, if you think there's nothing wrong with Wounding Strike you're a stupid nigger who shouldn't be allowed near ANYTHING pertaining to the balancing of skills.

I'd like it shown on the record that I did NOT write this. The person who wrote this should be put in a mental hospital and is a coward for not siging his comment. 145.94.74.23 17:04, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

And for taking making such a derogatory comment because of a disagreement about game balance. The skill has no +dmg, learn to not take critical hits to the back while kiting, learn to use aegis, learn spacing, learn watch things develope and use prot, learn to use multi-enchant removals, just learn to actually play. Don't make such a terrible statement in a rediculously cowardly manner, man up and actually discuss.~>Sins WDBImage:Assassin-tango-icon-20.png 17:58, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It really doesn't matter how much you swing for when you've got Conjure + Strength of Honor buffing your damage by like 30, so you're guaranteed at the very minimum 150ish + Deep Wound between Wounding Strike + Mystic Sweep. You could also throw Eremites in for the hell of it. Anyway, when the minimum damage of a melee spike that can happen every few seconds is 150 damage + DW, and it's more likely to hit 200 or 250 + DW, there really is something wrong. 3 of these guys will always kill someone if they all spike. There's not enough defense to handle it. Extra copies of Wounding Strike also does help a lot. If Guardian goes on the target, it has to stop all 3 of them. If you're pressuring that's 3 people you can beast down at the same time not considering any possible AoE luck. --TimeToGetIntense 20:34, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Watch the META game 1 signet mesmer kills the derv or what ever using wounding strike the amount of counters is incredible and saying that an elite that does no + damage that causes 2 conditions with one of them being conditional is overpowered is a joke, any number of skills from blind to blured to humility to freaking bane signet cuz the skyth hit take 1.8 seconds lol. You guys are being increadibly lame singaling a skill out like that. For that same matter i think recharge should indeed go to perhaps 5 seconds so that it would be comparable to other skills. In no way is this skill OP yet it does see alot of use in current meta and so to alow the use of other skills it should be changed to a 5 second recharge so without killing the skill it becomes a bit less spammable.66.177.69.32 13:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah cause 1 signet mesmer can knock down 3 dervishes every 3 seconds. Good suggestion. ~Shard (talk) 04:34, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
The only answer is 4 hammer warriors with Counter Blow. --TimeToGetIntense 13:22, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Very brave and strong. I like that build, time! -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Or just run more dervishes than the other team:) They got 7 you go 8 and if they got 8 you're screwed:)212.242.184.220 22:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Wait... Signet mesmer. To counter dervsmite. Are you saying the only way to counter derv smite is to run a better dervsmite? Why didn't I think of this before? And yes, the biggest problem is the damage buffing. However, covered deep wounds every 3 seconds, particularly with the possibility to be an aoe deep wound on a map like burning, and a virtually nonexistent condition, is pretty ridiculous anyway. It might be okay if the signet mesmer is nerfed (soh and humsig in particular), and possibly conjures, but I still think wounding strike feels right at 5s recharge. Pluto 04:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

DUh? First off all I refered to Hum sig second of all a sig mes can kd a derv every 5 seconds thus 5 second recharge is justified. Indeed both builds are OP but definetly more the derv then the sig mesmer. The sig mesmer i think is nearly at par with an e surge any ways, though with kds and no need for energy... btw, also rather then uping the cast time of ermites and mystic why not just put recharge to 10 seconds seams relatively obvious to me but im sure Izzy has his reasons for keeping them high damage spammable and very easy to spike with? - Look Drop Kaboom - Alex.

Nah, izzy, nothing wrong with AoE deep wound covered by bleeding every 3 seconds on a dervish with a constant speed boost. gfg, you fail at skill balance. - 70.15.6.229 04:24, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

CHANGE EFECT NO DW IF U ~HaVe~ AN ENCHANT ON YOU, like forked arrow u know. problem solved? no conjure no SoH no shit right?

Wounding strike was fine before you made it so bleeding effect covered dw..if you think this skill is fine you should be fired...its pretty clear to anyone with a clue that this game has hit hard times and you are to blame for most of it. I imagine izzy as one of those dumb fucks in ra that uses a necro, but puts insidious parasite on monks and doesnt understand why it does not work. All of your changes lately have been fail, get with the program or quit.

I'm positive that I'm not the only person that feels this way and im truley pushing for izzy to resign for the sake of this game. Please sign here if you agree as I for one do not see any plausable means for someone this clueless to balance a game.

-T

Wounding Strike: (5e 3r) Elite Scythe Attack. If this attack hits, target foe suffers from Bleeding for 5...17...20 seconds. If you are under the effects of an enchantment, target foe also suffers from a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds. | Restore Condition: (5e 3/4c 3r) Elite Spell. Remove all Conditions (Poison, Disease, Blindness, Dazed, Bleeding, Crippled, Burning, Weakness, Cracked Armor, and Deep Wound) from target other ally. For each Condition removed, that ally is healed for 10...58...70 Health. | See any similarities? Since RC is a perfect counter for WS (same recharge time, all conditions removed, scythe damage healed for each condition removed, etc), the only problem comes from poor player positioning that allows for WS to do AoE damage/condition spread, that is, player skill. Krothal 09:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
So you expect a monk to use rc every 3rd second do you know what that means.. That means that either the skill gets diverted or you basicly will have no energy regen. With 4 pips of e-regen you gain 4 energy ever 3 seconds you want us to use 5 every 3 seconds as monks in gvg. Nice one. When i started this i just hoped to bash some sense into peoples minds, but damn most people here seem to have no clue and just want gimmickway available so they can actually achieve something in PvP. Nice ruining of your own game Anet having a skillbalancer/Developers who think that skill is balanced. As suggested on various forums make Eviscerate 4 andrenaline and make bleeding cover it. Krothal Just because something has counters that doesnt make it balanced. On the other hand why did you not nerf the Conjure/SoH stacking even though you know its a problem?!?!?!? 212.242.184.220 09:36, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
My friends laughed and called the devs clueless when they saw everything that changed (i.e from foul feast to wounding strike) TA and RA meta in particular is pretty one sided atm. I can't really comprehend how anyone can support this guy.
I never thought Deep Wound was that good to be honest. it's useful, but in my opinion, it's also overhyped, just like the scythe itself. It might not be bad to give it a small nerf, but overall, it's not that bad. It's the combination that makes it too strong (put this skill in Sword Mastery and nobody would use it). 145.94.74.23 08:01, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
So one Monk should be able to keep up with one offensive character without running out of energy? So your team should be able to sit and tank any damage that happens, and no problem, your Monks can just heal it? I don't think so. First off, you need to use Prots, second off, people need to kite. WS should not be going off every 3 seconds.
On the other hand, the Dervish should take some skill to play. It shouldn't have a passive 33% speed boost all the time AND have artificial IAS AND be unspikable. I really don't have a problem with offense being strong, but it shouldn't be easy. Applying damage is easy. Everyone knows you deal damage, shit dies. Therefore, challenges need to exist in dealing damage, such as melee characters not being faster than everything else without any drawbacks (Warriors have to choose between stances!) and getting your maximum potential damage should come at some kind of risk (Frenzy!)
But again, defense isn't supposed to be, you just heal everything up without running out of energy. That's easy. Everyone knows you heal and shit doesn't die. When it's important to prot and kite, it rewards awareness. --TimeToGetIntense 20:41, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
You smart people don't seem to notice that while it is a covered deep wound applicable every 3 seconds, There are 3 things that balance it. A. Unlike Pious Assault It is Elite. B. It has NO bonus damage. None. Zippety doo-dah. 3. It IS conditional. Honestly with the RECENT nerfs to SoH and such enchant removal SCREWS WS dervs. Necros are commonly run now in GvG with Plague signet so just load ur necro up with Strip Enchantment, Rip Enchantment, or even better Rend Enchantments. It isn't OP. Basically it is a deep wound that can be applied every 3 secs....Don't talk about the cover either because the current RC heavy meta bleeding is just food. Because if you spike them down with wounding+x amount of other skills the bleeding doesn't matter. And if the person gets rc'ed before the spke ends then the DW is gone as well so ur whole spike didn't matter. I think it is at worst SLIGHTLY overpowered and deserves a TINY nerf like increasing the recharge 2 5 secs or something. REMEMBER what it was before and THANK izzy for bringing dervs back into meta. Psychiatric Consultant 22:58, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
Why is bringing the most poorly designed class into the meta good? --TimeToGetIntense 01:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
That shouldnt be a factor Time, all classes should be able to be useful 76.26.189.65 00:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
"There is nothing wrong with Wounding Strike" - Izzy
... lol and thats the guy who balance gw, why not
"There is nothing wrong with an unconditional 5 energy deep wound covered by bleeding on up to three ppl each third second"
there's really nothing wrong, are there? --Cursed Angel talk 19:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Relic Objective in HoH

Remove it from the game. It's a waste of 8 minutes of everyone's life. 72.235.48.41 04:17, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I second that, the whole relic run scenario is purely focused on the final 30 seconds and is usually decided by pathing bugs and the legendary "stuck" bug, i dont think this gametype works at all in 3-way matches 80.42.167.224 20:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Also, nobody likes it. ~Shard (talk) 04:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
If it makes meta builds fail, then I like it. 145.94.74.23 07:48, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Meta builds just throw Make Haste on a hex necro. It doesn't make them fail. Oh, and the shitway rangers have just as good a chance as a balanced team; escape makes you pretty much immune to linebacking, and is IMS too. -Auron 07:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
HoH relics should just be a 1 minute match, and when the match starts, a sound effect going "VROOMMMMMMM" should come up. It would be only a waste of 1 minute of everybody's time, plus it would be humorous the first 2 times we get that objective. ~Shard (talk) 08:06, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I've never even been to the HoH outpost, but I can sure say that the recent "Stand Around and Make Haste, Forget What Fighting Is" thing is boring to watch. I wonder if it would get any more interesting if the teams had to 'attune' the relics at one of the other team's bases and then run it to the center. --Star Weaver 07:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
how about making only 1 relic appear in the middle and you have to run it to your base, also increase the decreased move speed from holding the one relic. 76.26.189.65 18:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
VROMMMM. Seriously though, capture the flag - now that would be interesting. -- NUKLEAR IIV 12:03, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
ooh how about 1 relic, and you take it to enemy base, and talk to their hero, upon this happenin theres a huge explosion and everyone in enemy dies and you win! yay 76.26.189.65 20:20, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I absolutely support the last idea! Would be even more fun than it is now... A. von Rin 22:42, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
GvG is about strategy. HA is about killing things. There was no reason to add a "run back and forth for 8 minutes through your own territory" objective to HA. Having an objective where only 3 of your team needs to be present is so stupid. ~Shard (talk) 04:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Ha should not be about 8vs8. That makes ha bad and promotes gimmicks. -- NUKLEAR IIV 10:36, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
HA was a 6 player match for a while, and from what I gathered people hated it and said that it promoted gimmicks and balanced builds had no place... — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 12:05, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
That's not what I meant. HA should not pitch 8 people against 8 people in a contest of muscle. It should be like GVG - involving some more strategy. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:11, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
If it was "more like GvG" it would just be GvG. My point is that HA and GvG must be different. I don't think that just "making it more like GvG" is a valid suggestion. Besides, HA has a much faster pace then GvG (that rarely ends before VoD). I'm only R5 so maybe I know S, but overall I like HA the way it is. (and we didn't lose to a Sway in weeks) — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 00:22, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be "more like gvg". It just has to force the players to use their brains once in a while. -- NUKLEAR IIV 09:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
That's less like HA and more like GvG. -- VegaObscura 07:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)
Relics doesn't accomplish that. Take it out. ~Shard (talk) 22:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The problem with relic runs is that, generally speaking, nobody really plays until the last 30 seconds or so. Breaking ahead of the other two teams will make you lose more often then not (or at the very least, that's the general perception I hear), so nobody really does anything until that last push where you try to be the last one to cap. 1v1 relic runs aren't so bad, because the other team is going to be focused on stopping you anyway. In 1v1 relic runs, there's little reason not be more aggressive, so the matches are considerably less stupid. Pluto 04:16, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Tbh HA is terribly boring and it even would be more fun as a big Random Arena (yes I said "random"), than how it is atm. HA should be to GvG, what RA is to TA: The next step to a more complicated and coordinated PvP experience. A. von Rin 00:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
On a personal level, I always expected HA to be more serious than GvG - That may be because you don't get "vD has beaten PnH in the Imperial isle!" in game chat. Not ever going to happen, though :( -- NUKLEAR IIV 16:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Power Shot

I want to ask you to pay some attention to Power Shot. It is by far, the most underpowered beginning skill of the game, and it is very slow and boring for rangers in any starting area. I would like to ask that you lower the recharge to either 4 or 5, while making the skill a little more blanced. Maybe a 50% slower flying speed? or perhaps a lower energy cost with a higher starting damage but lower the skill progression in damage? Or, just make it uber strong for PvE and leave it how it is for PvP. This is just one skills that really bothers me. It could be so good, and yet, it is horrible because of the damage progression and recharge. Thanks. 76.170.190.199 03:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

it got buffed recently its not the weakest ranger attack anymore 76.26.189.65 03:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Good, now do something about Quick Shit. -- VegaObscura 05:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Power shot got buffed but still sucks Antiarchangel TROLL 19:58, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Its a horrible skill to start of as a ranger with. 76.170.190.199 19:16, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

It's weak, I know ever sense alpha with Eight v Eight went on an insane run with ranger DPS and we redid all ranges and added expertises the plan old damage buffs have never fully recovered, in the end a ranger is about condition application so skill like that just don't hold up well to the class design. Izzy @-'---- 20:27, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, this is just one of those skills that's dead and, honestly, better off for it. :P -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 02:58, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
It could be changed in a ranged Bull's Strike version with higher energy costs. This would fit to the theme and be usefull, instead of being just a waste of a skill slot... A. von Rin 00:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Guild Lord and Ghostly Hero use this skill, so that would be horrible. It should just be left alone. It's an NPC skill like Heal Area. Because it has a simple and generic effect, players are able to use the skill too because there's no harm in allowing them to. If anything, it should be replaced with Savage Shot in early level areas. It would actually give new Rangers a hint as to what the role of the class is. Also replace Flare with Immolate. New players shouldn't be given the worst, most useless, most horribly designed skills to begin the game with. It's one thing if the skills are simple but also well designed such as Sever Artery and Gash, but Flare and Power Shot are just useless. --TimeToGetIntense 05:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I like how the first 2 skills a warrior gets is Frenzy and Heal sig, in an area where frenzy doesnt REALLY trigger so then later on when thier dying for using both same time they have no idea why 76.26.189.65 04:52, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
I think any intelligent player will figure it out. How many Warriors do you see using Frenzy in PvE? --TimeToGetIntense 00:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
90% of pugged warriors, then they say my healers suck after they die, then i tell them to bring their own heroes which is usually followed by perhaps the worst healer build you can imagine 76.26.189.65 22:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
You're lucky. I always get warriors with 7 self defense skills, resurrect, and 9 sword mastery. --TimeToGetIntense 14:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I've seen far too many of them far to often use Frenzy non stop in PvE and give the poor monk a headache. User:Rakyren Rakyren 01:59, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
I wish I could find tank wars in pve, then maybe they wont need to burn my monks energy for being useless anyways 76.26.189.65 03:15, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mid-month balances

I'm guessing the main reason you don't fix things in the middle of a "season" is so the meta stays the same for the whole season, but when you see stuff like

within the span of 12 seconds from 2 characters, don't you ever get an urge to smash face on those skills? If I made something that broken, I'd be knocking people down in the hallway to get to my computer and fix it. ~Shard (talk) 22:07, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

SoJ Is broken? Oo I chuckled, since the skill apparently was OK since Prophecies went live... Same with SoH, though that was affected by the fast Casting change (and thus got it's casting time increased by 1 sec to compensate). — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 22:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
No, you see, this post involves a build that 100% of gvg teams run, maybe you should gvg sometime to find out what im talking about.~Shard (talk) 01:16, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Got some changes in the works, should be out soon. Izzy @-'---- 01:23, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe you, Shard, should GvG more and see the main problem is damage stacking. Conjures and Strength of Honor are the real problem. Signets are a by-product. Wounding Strike is a problem but is only further due to the aforementioned enchantments.--74.61.209.219 01:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Any time Signet of Judgement sees play, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Too bad it's always in gay builds... :( --TimeToGetIntense 01:57, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Mesmers are gay? How original xD But seriously, I hope nothing big will happen, because I see the Signet Mesmer, in itself, as a really nice build. Granted I also play a SaH-Conjure Warrior in HA... — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 03:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The signets are fine, so is wounding strike. Mantra of Inscription is gay, and scythe is gay. Lightblade 19:13, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
how is dw spam on a scythe not gay 68.93.107.184 19:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
You need to seperate DW spam and Scythe. DW spam is not (ok, I'll avoid that word) bad. Scythe is bad. DW spam get RC and FF, easy counter. Scythe's crit damage and auto-crit mechanic is bad. Lightblade 23:52, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not about to get into the sexual orientation of farm tools or magics, but I will say, we've been observing GvG semi-frequently lately, and pretty much any time I see a Mo/Me cast a signet my reaction is "Bored now. Next?" They're all clones. Also, real mesmers are usually fun to watch :D. --Star Weaver 19:28, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
its Me/Mo 68.93.107.184 19:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Forhead, meet hand. ^_^--Star Weaver 20:29, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

DW spam is gonna be bad for the game so long as skills that do an immediate 100 damage to three targets are bad for the game. (Searing/Teinai's are 30s recharge and do their damage over 5 seconds, come to think of it...) -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 03:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Wounding strike is gay everywhere, it doesn't matter what buffs the character has on them. Like I've said before, Dismember doesn't cost 2 adrenaline, there's a reason why. This is that reason. Nearly unconditional spammable cheap DW is bad for the game. 72.235.48.41 06:18, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
did i see the words, "Mesmers are gay" here? couple of things there. mesmers are unpopular just bcause they are more subtle than a war who goes about smashing things. and gay is a word i don't like to see used as an insult.--Sum Mesmer GuyTalk to me NOW!! DO IT! contribs 06:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
You're wrong, and too bad? -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 06:59, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I don't see why Eviscerate and Dismember (and gash, for that matter) have such high adren costs. If AoE DW spam every 3 seconds is ok, 2 adren eviscerate would be balanced as well (probably more balanced, actually, seeing as it lacks a cover condition and axes dont hit 2-3 people at once). -Auron 07:08, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
but...but... warriors carry KD's... -- NUKLEAR IIV 09:45, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
but... but... dervishes have an attack skill that hits even when it misses. ~Shard (talk) 23:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Saw the update. I was hoping something would get fixed. IDK why I keep my hopes up. They're always bad. 72.235.48.41 06:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Imbalance in Hero Battles

Changes for HB used to be "on the plate but low priority" but in the past year we haven't seen anything that even resembled an attempt to rebalance the format, except for removing The Crossing which was basically a workaround for a lot of the major issues with the format. Has Hero Battles been abandoned completely now? --Draikin 06:32, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Consider the fact that TA needs a ladder more than HB does, then ask yourself if that question was worth asking. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 03:02, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't see how that's relevant to my question, since I'm not even talking about the ladder in HB. Of course TA deserves a ladder but that's a completely different topic. I'm asking whether or not HB will still be receiving the updates that we were told would be implemented after they finished EotN. --Draikin 17:39, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
No because HB is partially hopeless, partially ignored/uncared for, and mostly bad. Not to mention there's better things to fix in the meantime. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 04:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Just because there are other things that need fixing doesn't mean entire PvP formats should be ignored completely. There are a lot of simple fixes that would improve HB, if Anet actually bothered to take a look at the format. --Draikin 09:33, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
You'll find Arenanet's priority on Guild Wars as a whole is low. Don't expect anything, won't get disappointed. 118.92.98.226 20:11, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. There's a lot of little things that would fix HA, but ANet's resources are being allocated almost entirely to GW2. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 20:27, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Oh ffs

Oni gets annoyed. Once again ive seen you commenting pages regarding Dyes and Wounding strike,izzy. yet somehow you always manage to ignore the part about ursan? What are ya,a coward? just state your oppinion WHY you havent nerfed this yet. Some guy who i argued with before said this: I dont know why they shouldnt nerf ursan,but they havent,so obviously they dont want to nerf it.

Care to explain WHY you havent nerfed it? or will you ignore this comment like all the others? -Note that in BOTH sections in this ursan pve thingie area,the argument about nerfing ursan has won.

Stop fucking failing. honestly,your job is to be a skill balancer. not to fuck up the game. what the fuck did you think anyway when you BUFFED shadowform? was it the final statement saying you dont give a shit about pve? Oni User talk:Oni 20:21, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Er, It's been repeatedly stated that the staff is divided over whether there is a problem, what the problem is, and what the solution should be and that the discussion is still going on. Repeatedly. Again. And again. I really doubt that in this situation they're going to be allowed to talk about the details you're demanding. --Star Weaver 20:40, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

hey oni kid, stop forcing your retarded opinion on everyone else and stop repeating the same bullshit over and over again 87.189.186.206 21:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, if Oni is forcing his opinion on everyone by posting here, you're equally guilty (since you're forcing your opinion -- i.e. that Oni's opinion is "retarded" -- on everyone else). Anyways, you (and everybody else) is under no obligation to read Oni's post, so really, it doesn't matter. Also, if you can't come up with a better insult than "retarded," then you might want to consult a dictionary. 85.71.168.42 21:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Only difference is that Oni is acting like a annoying little crack head and as such deserves to be treated so. Done25 21:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps. It's an interesting question actually: does a user sacrifice his right to be protected by policy, etc. when he violates policy, etc? Anyways, I posted more because 87.189.186.206 was entirely unnecessary and served no other purpose than to escalate the debate. Also, I dislike the use of the word "retarded" as an insult. 85.71.168.42 21:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Well you are allowed to be on here so long as you follow the rules so techinally once he breaks a rule he is no longer protected by it and if he repeatedly breaks said rule he will lose his account. Still no matter how nice it feels two wrongs don't make a right. I just flip a coin. :P Done25 21:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Soon as you can get everyone to agree that Oni's acting like an "annoying little crackhead" your opinion will be right. Protip: Not gonna happen, so bugger off. (I'm not sure if the IP was you forgetting to log in, Done; if it's not, this whole thing is directed to said IP.) -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 03:04, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
He's only forcing his opinion if it's actually being taken into consideration, which from the looks of things isn't happening. --76.25.197.215 07:31, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
So you think Ursan should not be nerfed and neither should Shadow Form Done25? Care to explain that? This is a discussion that's been going on for a while. I aggree with Oni that it should have been nerfed a long time ago, as it turns PvE into a mindless grind. Dark Morphon(contribs) 17:49, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
At Armond- I only use my home computer so I am always logged on. At Dark - Where are you pulling this crap from? I simply want Oni to stop acting like a 5 year old who didn't get what he wanted and is throwing a tantrum because of it. Done25 00:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Things are going offtopic about an issue that's more or less resolved. If you want to discuss Ursan Blessing, Shadow Form or PvE, you know where the relevant pages are. Please use them. -- Brains12 \ talk 00:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
What orifice did you pull that conclusion out of, Morphon? All I said was that since his opinion isn't being listened to, it isn't possible that he's forcing it. If you really need that much help with your reading comprehension, I'm sure there's remedial learning facilities within driving distance of your house. I just owned myself so hard. Googling for remedial learning facilities within driving distance of my house. --76.25.197.215 01:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

A couple of things though,while poor oni was being banned for swearing (lulz?) Anyway. the reason i posted that was to have a nice lill argument,but i realised that every single comment posted against me is so fooken fail its not even worth having fun with. here are some things: When did i force my oppinion in this post? i did -NOTHING- else than ask why izzy avoided commenting ANYTHING why he is doing what he is doing to pve. First of all,i asked what he THOUGHT about ursan,and that the winning argument says nerf. not NERF URZN BIETCH So please,READ MY POST before you start crying about that. and,brains. izzy is the skill balance leader isnt he? i wanted to know why he released immortality and why it took a year for anet to start DEBATING to nerf ursan. So can anyone tell what oppinion im forcing again? So,done25. To be honest you are the one who is acting like a 5yrold kid. I only used swearing and stuff to attract some ppl like you to have fun ;o. its pretty lame that you skipped through my entire post that rings nothing else than the truth just to say stop posting,you are 5 years old immature,i dont care what you say If you dont,dont bother posting ^^.

Gawd,i got banned for 2 days for THIS? p_qOni User talk:Oni 21:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Editage: Star Weaver: You say there might be a chance they arent allowed to speak of it? To be honest,i payed for this game. now,can you tell me in any other MMORPG the staff would let GODMODE in pve? (perma sf form.) Id like to know why they did this. and hell,they have to tell. Why? I've payed. ;o.

Er, corporations have rules about employees revealing information to the general public. For example, I'm not allowed to discuss the company I work for with the media AT ALL without clearance, I believe. Haven't read the rules in a while. But I had to sign something.
Also, ArenaNet have no obligation to tell you anything. Seriously. The "I paid money" entitlement argument . . . no.
Also, I think you were banned for being verbally abusive to a specific person, not for the language. That whole paragraph starting with "Stop fucking failing." Try saying that all outloud to someone. And say you just said all that to get a rise out of of people. Trying to attact people to start a big argument is immature, is rude, and usually called trolling.
Feeling a company owes you something (they don't) is not justification for abuseiveness.
You're not forcing your opinon on anyone, you're just convincing people that nothing you say is worth so much as reading.
Geh, look at me, I was planning on reading the drama less and now i'm responding to it . . . . Not for long. --Star Weaver 22:31, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
According to his block log he was banned for being upset. That's... a pretty shitty reason. But whatever, this isn't the place for it. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 00:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
"Stop fucking failing. honestly,your job is to be a skill balancer. not to fuck up the game."
agree 100% with this statement by oni. In the real world when you suck at your job this much, you get fired.

I'm aware of this discussion being dead. But i just read what star weaver said. Tell me, what would you do if you went into a store and bought lighter, the lighters company says tons of promising shit. And yar happy with it. Suddenly when yar about to take the lighter away the clerk who you bought it from took it and smashed it. And when you ask why the hell he did that he says that the company cant allow him to do that. I bought gw. It promised me Skill over time. they took it and smashed that. Whatever, i'll manage. Then, they remove 70% of the ighters liquid thingie (PVE) and still cant tell me about it. then they fux up the rest of the 30% by smashing it away. (fucking up balance badly) Really, Guildwars isnt balanced in a single area. Immortality exists in PvE. the motto that made me buy GW doesnt exist anymore. And i do not deserve a explination? Thats the same crap as the clerk destroying the item you just bought and not telling why. yet you still lost yar money.So yes. oni thinks he deserves a explination >.<Oni User talk:Oni 12:30, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Because it's a PvE skill, and not even a good one, by bringing Ursan you severely limit what else you can do. The damage slacks majorly compared to a nuker or something focused on damage, the tanking isn't as great as a warrior that's built for tanking. It's more so for mesmers and other professions that at times in places like HM dont always have as much usefulness in a team and also for players who can't pull much else off. Monks don't always just want to heal, mesmers cant interrupt all HM fast casts etc. But in all honestly Ursan groups have wiped loads and that definately doesn't overpower it. Not to mention there is a down time and everything =\ simply there are better things in the game, by asking to nerf this one you're basically wanting to nerf everything that's ever good at anything. I believe a well made balanced team can outdo a Ursan team anyday IMO. 74.229.66.241 13:51, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
If you went into a store and bought a lighter, and on buying the lighter they made you sign something that said they were giving you a liscence to use the lighter (see TOS #3) with all the other provisions of such a liscence, then they would be legally entitled to smash it or whatever. Your demands and desires are based wholly on morality, not legality, and if you do not agree with a company's morality, do not buy their products. (ETA: entitlement is in the eye of the beholder.) --Star Weaver 15:23, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Any chance for a Steelfang Slash revert? (PvE)

It was used quite abit by PvE wars combined with Brawling Headbutt. The 1 sec recharge ruined the combo abit. Is there a possibility of it getting reverted for PvE? P A R A S I T I C 09:57, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I would like to add that the main problem is that it was nerfed with the Backbreaker combo in mind (it could instant recharge itself and therefore fueled a Backbreaker-lock extensively until "For Great Justice!" wore out) but the nerf nerfed it for everyone including "legitimate" users. Maybe making it an energy attack with a quick activation (5e 1c 8r for example) might have made it unfit for the combo but, while energy heavy, easier to connect in a "legitimate" build. I easily understand why the combo was nerfed even if it was rather bad and clunky, but Steelfang Slash is a skill in the worst weapon in the game, using a painful condition fo fulfill (thus rewarding skill) especially with a already crowded sword bar. Nerfing the skill removed swords a bit more from the game, and it is also one of these nerfs that just weaken a skill, not one that kills it for an unwanted combo but opens it for other possibilities. It would be good if it was reverted or somehow rebalanced. 90.58.77.69 14:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
So "For Great Justice!" is nerfed, but somehow Steelfang Slash isn't unnerfed? Ok. 90.58.137.32 03:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] soul bind

just take a good smiting hex that no one use and put it in curses and make it elite but still the same and now expect everyone to use it.

that's so awesome izzy, i bet it was ur idea. --Cursed Angel talk 00:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Basically it's the same thing, but with 1 sec casting instead of 2, is Elite and in a different profession, and can't stack with Scourges. Curses is a much more useful attribute them Smiting, I'll give you that, but still the skill doesn't seem to live up to it's Elite status. I didn't test it, but if the damage would be armor ignoring and Scourge not... it's still not that good. IDK... maybe I'm just missing something here. — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 01:09, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
i'd like to see it hurt the target instead of the healer, it'd reduce healing pretty good. maybe better than the 25 energy 50% less healing elite. --Frozen Archer 01:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
It's a lot better than scourge healing. Scourge Healing is in an unusable attribute, and Soul Bind is in an overpowered one. ~Shard (talk) 02:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
This skill fucking rapes bitches all day dawg. I popped a cap in this niggas ass with it man, he put patient spirit on his ass and I blew that shit up with Rip Enchantment and he fucking went down dawg! --TimeToGetIntense 06:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Scourge Healing has potential, there are other reasons it isn't used (do you see a healer or do you see a monk?). Stop bashing Izzy just because you don't like him. 87.210.150.58 14:41, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
What if you combined the effects say: "For 10 seconds when target foe is healed the healer is knocked down."? Kinda like the necro version of Shield of Judgment Done25 18:16, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

LOL,WHAT? O.O. worst suggestion ever? KD the healer everytime he heals? oh yeah,gg in 4vs4 areas.fuck em up even more,like wod wasnt enoughOni User talk:Oni 22:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

What if you heal party and 7 people on your team have it? Does your character get stuck in the ground? ~Shard (talk) 03:52, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Better yet, what if you echo Soul bind on all their players and when they use heal party their healer just dies...instantly 76.26.189.65 23:01, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Hahaha. Anyways here is what I put i na suggestion page. be sure to comment. Elite Hex Spell. For 5 seconds every time target foe is healed the healer is knocked down. 15 energy, 2 cast, 15-20 second recharge. Done25 19:12, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
OMG, What I said actually happens >_<, if you drop Kaolai when enough people have soul bind on them you do die >_< 76.26.189.65 00:36, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Update

Was good, thanks. --71.229 00:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

BP didnt deserve nerf 24.141.43.76 01:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
It was kinda unbalanced in arenas and there was better things to hit (lol WoD), but I'm not gonna complain about it when he finally tapped Splinter and ARage in the same balance. 'Sides, having to recast BP more often isn't going to hurt much since you're rarely using it on more than one or two people. --71.229 03:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I agree, this skill change was a good one. The 'nerf' of "For Great Justice!" for example, prevents abuse but allows the skill to function as it should in normal build. The Elementalist skill changes were nice too. Keep up the good work Izzy. 145.94.74.23 11:04, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Strength of Honor

Nice nerf. Now, you only have time to put it on 4 people before the gate opens.

Converts weapon damage to holy damage so it can't stack with conjure. Thanks. ~Shard (talk) 02:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Use Enchantment removal, Shard. Thanks. — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 02:43, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Mirror of Disenchantment and it takes a full minute to get it back up on those four people. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 04:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Cause there are so many skills that can remove stacked enchantments and recharge in 5 seconds. That's like saying use veil to remove wail of doom. Having a bad counter doesn't make it fine. 72.235.48.41 05:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
This change was dumb, clearly Izzy wanted to leave a gay build viable but slightly easier to counter. Fail. Just kill it. --TimeToGetIntense 06:19, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
So then we can move onto another OP build.--Underwood 06:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Enchantment removal isn't a viable counter, because then it leaves your build without offensive enchant removals, so your team's damage never goes through. Not a wise trade-off. It should just... y'know, be balanced. Converting to holy is fine, or hell, even converting to lightning (even though it might stack, it would only stack with a single conjure, and it would be reduced by armor). -Auron 06:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
You could run extra removals in your build but that really isn't a counter. We need BSurge back because the AoE on enchanted foes prevented people from running 3 melees stacked with damage enchants. It kept Conjure, SoH and orders all in check while providing teams with a pretty good active defense skill for general play. If you don't bring back BSurge there will be more problems down the road. Just make sure Ward Against Melee doesn't work on Air Eles. --TimeToGetIntense 07:02, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Wait, wait, sorry, sorry, did I understand you right? "No, I don't want to bring a counter for a very popular build, I want that build nerfed so I don't have to bring a counter". That's basically what's you're saying, and that's just wrong and lazy. — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 09:51, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The very fact that you are required to bring a counter for it makes it overpowered, by definition. Thanks for proving my point, though. -Auron 10:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I dare to disagree. Enchantment removal isn't a real counter since everyone should have some anti-enchantment. Just like having something to combat conditions and hexes. As with conditions and hexes, you can't remove everything unless you're really devoted to it, but removing key hexes is important. Just like removing key enchantments from the enemy. The way the game should work, is someone thinks up a good build, someone else things up a build to counter it, then someone counters the new build and so forth. Skill changes should just encourage new builds, and tone down existing ones IF they're too powerful. Mirror the thing. Or rend it, and hit a distracting shot on the Mesmer. Or better yet, just kill the Dervishes. They'll lose their enchantments that way. — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 11:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Just killing the dervish is a great counter to this build, why didn't i think of this before? -Warlock 11:23, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
You're a fucking genius, Poki. A real visionary. --76.25.197.215 11:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
"The way the game should work, is someone thinks up a good build, someone else things up a build to counter it, then someone counters the new build and so forth." Absolutely, positively, 100% wrong. That's build wars, and that's bullshit. The game should be skill over build - no matter what skills you bring, you should be able to outskill any team, regardless of build. If their build, not their skill, is beating you, ArenaNet is failing at their jobs (since they were the ones that said Guild Wars was skill over skills).
Of course, that doesn't mean you can bring 8 smite monks and "outskill" opponents, but you should be able to beat every gimmick in the game running balanced. If any gimmick is enough of a crutch that it allows bad players to beat significantly better players, the gimmick needs nerfing. That's the obvious minimum for maintaining skill over build.
You shouldn't ever have to devote your build to countering hexes. You shouldn't ever have to devote half your build to countering dervishes. You should be able to out-skill the opponents using the standard defense your build already has. Of course, this is obviously not the case, thanks to very poorly designed mechanics with no real counter (hexes - explained ad nauseam, you simply can't counter hexes with weak-ass 12 second recharge single-hex removals. It's the same with dervishes; you can't counter them with *just* enchant removal. They're still dealing 100+ damage crits (easier to manage than 150 damage crits, but only just). You have to devote too much of your build to counter them because they deal too much damage than is healthy for the game).
The game needs to move away from melee dominated offense, but it also needs to move away from build wars, because build wars is simply fail and aids. Bring back the balance, ANet.
And yeah... killing the dervish is a good counter? Holy shit, I need to put "death" as a counter to every single build on PvX. -Auron 11:35, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
No, the game doesn't need to move away from melee dominated offense. Warriors are the only well designed damage dealing profession. Everything else that can do sustainable direct damage is degenerate. Other professions only take skill to play when they have a support role and some non-sustainable damage, or some slow passive pressure. Basically what it comes down to is, a Warrior needs to use Frenzy to deal tons of damage. He needs to balance risk vs. reward in the same way a caster has to decide whether it's worth spending time and energy on a spell. Dervishes don't have to make any sacrifices, there is no risk vs. reward when playing a Dervish. You just hit shit and it dies. --TimeToGetIntense 11:53, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The game will stagnate unless melee are fixed. It'll never move away from a block-web type build, because that's what you need to have to stay alive. The addition of paras and dervs saw to that. If damage was balanced between eles and physical (and possibly a few non-spammable, thus non-spikey, necro skills), and more viable mesmer skills were introduced to counter big damage and condi spam from eles, the meta would be much more interesting. We just need something to get away from the current boring-ass meta. The devs are caught in the never ending loop of fixing only what's in the meta - i.e., removing options from the game without introducing any. Even at that, however, they're doing a terrible job (SoH wasn't nerfed, conjures weren't nerfed, wounding wasn't nerfed, rending touch wasn't nerfed, expertise exploiting wasn't fixed, scythe damage is so retardedly high that every melee class in the game uses them (A/D, R/D, W/D, D*)). They need to focus more on what could be in the game instead of destroying the current game even more by nerfing the wrong things and leaving absolutely broken builds alive.
I agree with you that the main problem with dervishes is unconditional, risk-free killing. Warriors have to frenzy in order to get evis -> exec -> dstrike to hit quickly; if they don't frenzy, the enemy team has ages to prot the spike or remove deep wound. Dervishes don't have to worry about a thing; their deep wound recharges ridiculously fast, their energy never gets low, and they hit for over 100 damage. There are myriad problems with dervishes, but they all stem from risk-free (and thus skill-free) play. -Auron 13:24, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Every other form of physical based sustainable DPS *aside from Warriors* also happens to be risk free. The best way to keep them in check is to give the reliable DW skills exclusively to Warriors. Also, there are really only a few ways the game can go besides melee pressure with blocks and blinds. Caster spikes or 8 necro pressure. Have you seen what 8 necros spamming every necro skill in the game on recharge can do? It's disgusting. Also I guess R-Spike, Para spike, etc... Basically either gimmicks or you use Warriors for damage because they are the only class that is designed correctly for dealing damage. That's how the game works, it sucks, but it can't go any other way... However, it could be moved more towards splitting, more active defense could be buffed. When splitting is universal, you will see more variety. More skills will become viable. The biggest reason most skills in the game suck is that GW was designed to have alot of splitting going on, but the game has gotten into a state where you need to run a super 8v8 build to survive, or you run a hyper gank build. This causes skills that do these things very powerfully to be the only viable skills. --TimeToGetIntense 13:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
auron, there's no way gw is gonna be so balanced that skill>build, u only have 8 skills, if i as a mesmer only had anti-melee skills and we face 8 eles using sf my team would be one man less, i'd still have rez, maybe something that could hurt them but still i'd be useless. same goes for many builds, teambuilds and the builds u use urself, ranger spirits, snares, hexes, conditionremoval, almost everything is better or worse depending on the opposite teams build. in a world where everyone play balanced i can see how skill>build but the game is also meant to be fun, and selling, repeatidly meeting balanced over and over again isn't fun, meeting an assassin with only anti-caster skills isn't fun but that's how buildwars is. --Cursed Angel talk 16:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Solution: Don't be bad and bring a decent mesmer. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 16:37, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
i used the mesmer to prove a point, it's a profession that depends very much on the opposite team's build, in ha its just to use pd and ure almost never worthless, but gogo criticize cuz u have nothing better to say. --Cursed Angel talk 16:52, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Depends on the enemy team's build, eh? Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 16:56, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
take drain ench and go meet sway, gogo prove my point. --Cursed Angel talk 17:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Because your entire bar is Drain Enchantmentx8, right? Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 17:15, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Diversion Pious is a bitch. (It's always Pious for me. I don't know why. Lucky button mashing?) Also, diversion the n/rts and they get one less spamheal, which is a big plus. (Diversion on a spike if you're good.) Seriously, if you're rolling mesmer, either take skills that are universal enough to be useful in every battle, or expect to not be able to use one or two of them in any given match. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 17:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
You can't expect to bring just any 8 skills and expect to beat anything because you're better at the game then your opponent. A good build that has good team synergy is half of the success, and the other half is how you play it and how you coordinate with everyone. I play a warrior, so I know there's a lot of crap you can throw at melee to make them useless. Blind, Cripple, Snare hexes, other anti-melee hexes like Empathy, SS or Blurred Vision; Guardian, Weapon of Warding... You can't expect to win agents a good build without having some sort of defense agents it.
In other news, I'd really love to hear your definition of "Balanced". Is it a party without a Dervish? Is it a party without 2 copies of the same profession, except Monk? Is it a party that has 4 Elementalist each running a different attribute to balance it out? Is it a party that has melee damage, ranged damage, elemental damage, condition spam, hex spam, healing, protection, blocking, snares... all in one packege? — Poki#3 Image:User Poki Signature.jpg 22:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
"Balanced" builds are ones that don't become useless when you shut down their gimmick. Go to Aiiane's Talk page (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 22:10, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
QFT Aii. -- Armond WarbladeImage:User Armond sig image.png 00:26, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Just as a side note to your "party without 2 copies of the same profession, except Monk" statement; I personally wish that (and I'll get flamed for this, I know) that the monk class wasn't an exception of the whole balance-thing. I think it ought to be just as viable to win without using a monk, if the team is good enough. I know there are a few guilds who actually don't use a monk apart from having one run flags or something, but it's blantly obvious that theses kind of teams at a high level don't stand a chance against a team of similar level who use monks frequently. If monks weren't overpowered, a lot less people would bother playing them I guess; which plain out sucks. [end of random ranting]--ILLUSiVE 21:47, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I hear you, Illusive. Thing is, Rt's were designed to stop this. They fucked it up, and monks reign supreme. The only reason you see 3 monk backlines is for 2 reasons: 1) they are the only support class 2)NF power creep made it so that if you don't get 3 monks, you die. -- NUKLEAR IIV 11:31, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
In almost every case, if you're not using real monks for your backline, you're playing some version of iway. ~Shard (talk) 22:09, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
On the topic of SoH: why buff the skill itself (letting it deal holy damage) in order to stop it from stacking with conjure? Simply making it trigger only on physical damage would achieve the same goal. --Draikin 00:12, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Because I want to farm undead with it, shhh. Yeah physical damage is probably a better idea. ~Shard (talk) 03:51, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Holy Damage for flavor, also so it can still stack with Judge's Insight, or is that a problem too? I don't think it is since JI is a 2 second cast. Sure it will get around conditional armor bonuses that barely matter... so who cares?--TimeToGetIntense 14:44, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not against Strength and Judges stacking...they're in the same attribute and 20% penetration isn't that much damage unless it's a scythe critical. ~Shard (talk) 23:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Also it pretty much takes all your energy to maintain SoH on one person and also keep JI on them. It's not efficient at all. I don't think you could maintain 2 SoH's and also keep JI on even one person. I guess you could run some e-management, but yeah, it would suck. Blessed Signet smite bonder? lolz. --TimeToGetIntense 23:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Another balance proposal

Sorry to bother you with this once again, Izzy. This time it is only 11 skills and very little rambling from me.

User:TimeToGetIntense/game_balance_june08

Thanks --TimeToGetIntense 07:32, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I commented on them, take a look ;). Dark Morphon(contribs) 15:21, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why do you favor gimmicks?

I think a lot of the pvpers in the game (the good ones) are still waiting for pvp to involve skill so we don't have to try so hard (and sometimes lose) against bad players. I'd really, really like to know why you favor gimmick builds so much. Anet was high and mighty about they're MMO being about skill instead of grind, yet it is currently the exact opposite. "Good" players have no advantage whatsoever, and bad players are allowed to cheat to beat out good players. Why do you encourage cheating Izzy?

You have a world of information a