Talk:Vanquisher/Archive3

Missing an area on vanquish, a bug?

Is it possible the title doesn't count an area while it is still striked off(goldhelm) on the map? As it is i have 30/34 elona vanquish, but even with 96% cartography i only see 3 more that need to be vanquished. I did check a 100% map for an area i might have missed but i have them all. Any ideas? (Ixillius)

Make sure you haven't missed Lahtenda Bog +Hidden city BlackBlood 23:40, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I have already vanquished those. All that i have left is in desolation (alkali pan, joko's domain and shattered ravines. and yes i have crystal overlook, vanquished) I dont understand, is there any chance ANet could locate what is wrong if i email them? (Ixillius)

Don't know.You can only try BlackBlood 23:58, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

More than likely, all anet will tell you is that you overlooked an area. Just go through the list one zone at a time to fully verify you've hit every zone. Sometimes the simplest answer if usually the right one.--Pyron Sy 00:48, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Nope. Just checked the list and compared it three times to be sure. and im 100% positive my map and title dont match. My map says 31 my title says 30/34, Im going to finish the last 3 areas, maybe itl fix itself at the end. (Ixillius)

You may have missed one of Bahdok Caverns or the Hidden City of Ahdashim. (Probably the latter, since it's easy to miss it completely if you chose Master of Whispers instead of Magrid.) They both count toward vanquishing even though they're underground and don't show up on the map. --Copperthorn 22:15, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Also thought of that, I have vanquished BOTH. I hated vanquishing that darn city of djinn >.< Never forget that hell. Either way im at 31/34 now, 2 areas left to go untill the truth is revealed. If i dont get my title im gonne be so... disappointed. (Ixillius) PS: I tipple checked and i HAVE ALL AREAS, there is no way in hell or heaven i have missed an area. Thanks for the help though.

Problem solved, The moon fortress was the problem. (Ixillius)

Dumbshit doesnt know how to look at a map

Wrong values

most of the Max-Min-Averages on this page are wrong.. i suggest they be deleted untill someone can get correct information, Regent valleys is 50 off on the max, maybe more. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.73.23.224 (talk).

New comments go to the bottom.

When someone drops by and then starts off with an all-encompassing "everything's wrong" and then offer a single arbitrary statement as "proof" of why it's wrong, I tend to reply with "Yea, ok. Thanks for your input." and leave it at that. -- ab.er.rant 15:16, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Tips

for cantha / elonian VQ i think you should add a tip suggesting that kneeling at a shrine to gain buffs will help in VQ as it helped me out a lot to get my legendary :P lol just a suggestion tho Brother Jotun 01:31, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. That tip would be better off in Guide to hard mode. Feel free to add it in :) -- ab.er.rant 14:15, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Tables Change.

can we change the tables so that the headers of the numbers are next to every area instead of only at the top because as it is right now you cant see some of the headers even on a screen res of 1680x1050. just to be clear im talking about adding this info: !! Average
count¹ !! Min
count !! Max
count !! Average
XP & gold² !! Bonus
points³ !! align="left" | Notes to where it says Vabbi for example.75.165.109.100 03:06, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

I honestly think it looks ugly to have to repeat the table header every few lines, especially if you implement that for the smaller regions in Prophecies. -- ab.er.rant 02:45, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

what if we did it like half way down? its just annoying because at least on my resolution you cant see the top of the table for some of them. also a sort by would be usefull i think. though i dont know how to do a sorting table via wiki-- Zesbeer 00:59, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

never mind i figured out that all you have to do is set the class to sortable. ie class=sortable i just tryed that and it worked but the area zones got messed up so a reworking of the table would be needed if we were to implement that. my thought is have smaller tables inside of a larger one ill works something up and link it.-- Zesbeer 01:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Ab.er.rant. I don't think the tables need changing, just subcategorizied (Aka, subpages with links to mainpage) to shorten the long page. -- riyen ♥ 22:20, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

im glad your finally having a option on this after i posted it in may.- Zesbeer 17:35, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

on second thought it would be better if we just made the class on the tables expandable ie hide the zones so all people have to do is expand the area they want to see at any given time. though i think the sort functionality would also be useful. Also i am rather sure you don't know what your talking about ariyen and are just trying to start shit- Zesbeer 17:52, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Expand, no. Sort funtion, yes. And I do know. I've done websites, etc. So, I don't start stuff. I do have an opinion too ya know. You're not the only one on this wiki. Sides, no one's perfect, remember that. -- riyen ♥ 18:04, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

never said anyone was perfect. also you are only one person and maybe if you knew how the wiki worked you would make minor edits and also would use the show preview function. instead of a zillion minor edits. and i stand by what i said about the tables and i still dont think you know what i am talking about.- Zesbeer 18:08, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Minor edits only show so much, still miss proofreading in the edit area, that's usually catched in main area. Edited to fix, and then proof read again. Guess you don't know about proofreading? -- riyen ♥ 18:16, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

i do know about proofreading but the SHOW PREVIEW BUTTON lets you SEE your work before you post novel idea i know. and you are just trying to start shit please stay on topic.- Zesbeer 18:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

still miss things in the preview. but oh well you just don't understand. I proof read both in preview as well as main area. You're the one who got off topic. Far as the tables? The Collapsing and Expanding would annoy people. However, it is handy to keep pages shorter. So it's an iffy thing. -- riyen ♥ 18:21, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

you can update the preview by hitting the show preview button again. Also how would that annoy people? it would make the page smaller which is a good thing it would let you find the information your looking for be found faster and it would shorten the page all of them are wins in my book. and your trying to start shit and i know that because you agree with what i originally posted in may i would like to point out that i am not the ip. and thus your actions are hypocritical - Zesbeer 18:32, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Watch yourself, you don't want to cross the NPA. Also, you're starting to stray from topic. Just shush, before you insert a foot in your mouth. Don't want you to get punished. :-) So, just drop your problems and issues, even with me and deal with what's at hand. RESPECTING others. Thanks. End of this discussion, here. -- riyen ♥ 18:37, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

no see i didn't cross the npa line because i said "your actions are hypocritical" (i was very careful in how i phrased it.) and i don't have a problem with you its just every time i post something you disagree and it makes no since as to why. i think its you who has a problem "respecting others" you only commented on this after i made a note of it on the features page. you are purely trolling. also notice that i keep coming back to the topic every time and you failed to do that. or provide why my idea is bad or how it could be done better. so please go troll somewhere else, also you still don't have end of discussion power learn to wiki please.- Zesbeer 18:49, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Uh, huh. Off topic, you are. I'm ending the 'personal' argument, not the table discussion. Secondly, you called me a troll - Npa. (On Topic) I think maybe styling it more, like rewording some of the notes, might help in size. good luck with the tables. -- riyen ♥ 18:56, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually you're both going off-topic, never mind who started it. If there's still some ideas about how to improve the table, please either try it yourself or ask for editing help at the bottom or here. Enough with this section. -- ab.er.rant 13:38, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Morostav Trail

I frequently vanquish Morostav Trail for Kurzick points, and I almost always rack up more than 300 kills. Last time I had 316 (for 1580 gold and 15800 Kurzick points). Can I update the maximum (and average)? I have screenshots if necessary.

Anyone who wants to try it for themselves should look to encounter as popups three groups of Stone Guardians (numbering 3, 3 and 6), two groups of three Blood Drinkers, two groups of three Wardens of the Season, another group of six Wardens of the Season around Arbor Earthcall in the lake, four groups of (four Wardens of the Forest and one Warden of the Branch) and two groups of (two Wardens of the Winds and one Warden of the Seasons). That's entirely from memory though so it's possible I missed a group or otherwise made a mistake.

I should also point out that the total number vanquished depends on how quickly you can get to the groups of Afflicted once they near radar range, as they will fight with the natives (Wardens, Dredge etc.) and what you don't kill won't be counted. So still more kills could be racked up by someone faster than me. Bride of Reanimator 23:40, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I say go for it on the max value but unfortunately the average is the median(middle) value and not the true average of a bunch of trial runs and is calculated by a formula if I remember the answer to an earlier similar average request correctly. Tenri 03:44, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and updated the max value and the mean (not median) was recalculated just like you said. Saved me from doing it myself.:) Bride of Reanimator 19:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I've had things I and my group didn't kill count towards the total. You seem to need to be in 'radar' or 'earshot' range at least for it to work. I've had it happen to me in AB and it is very apparent during FA/JQ as well when things die far away from you, that you will gain Faction, XP, etc. Happens quite often during Mount Quinkai/Morostav Trail speed-clears. It seems certain game mechanics function this way. Hence part of the problems with leechers in the two CMs and AB, they can kick back and get free Faction/Balth Points/XP from whatever dies in their radar range. I quite often use the tactic in areas where monsters actually fight each-other, is to get close to the action, but out of aggro and let them do the job for me. -thejynxed- 01:02, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Combining Allegiance and Vanquisher Titles

In an attempt to prevent a revert war, I'm explaining my reason for finishing the Vanquisher titles first and then the Allegiance titles. If you disagree with my reasons please discuss your reasoning here, and I'll revert my edit. Now, the reason to finish the vanquisher first (which was how the wiki was written before Captain Doughnut's edit [1]) was because working on your vanquisher title track inadvertently gives the player allegiance points. Thus, if the player instead finishes the Allegiance titles first, the points gained during vanquishes will be wasted. As such, to prevent wasted time and effort in getting both titles, it's best finish the Vanquishes first, and then finish the Allegiance titles. Again, please discuss before reverting my edit again. Blood Red Giant 06:02, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

New Min for Garden of Seborhin

I got a new Min for Garden of Seborhin. Do I need to prove it with a cap, or do I just go ahead and change the table? Kirbett 23:47, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

oh a minimum count for guys killed you can go ahead and change it did you have a quest active? and was the min 1?-- Zesbeer 02:09, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Go ahead and change the table, unless the changes are suspicously low, most readers will assume you making a genuine edit. If you've found a quest or some other mechansim that can reduce the foes to 1, please note it in the table too! --BramStoker (talk, contribs) 09:04, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

1 - lol - I wish! No, it was just down from 223 to 214, and I suspect it was probably because I cleared the region clockwise, enabling me to complete the vanquish before hitting a couple of groups of pop-up beetles. Kirbett 18:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Vanquishing with henchmen

In the Acquisition section it notes that dying with everyone in your party at 60% dp will return the party to an Outpost. Does this still occur if your party contains henchmen? I'm doing the run from ToA to the Eastern Frontier, and myself and my three heroes are at 60% dp - mostly gained through party wipes, so the four henchmen should in theory be in the same position of having 60% dp. However, even when the party got wiped (yet again), it was resurrected at the last activated shrine... Aran Moridin 13:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

This includes with henchmen. If you've all got 60% dp and still resurrecting, then either one of the hench isn't at 60, there's a bug in the code, or you're not in hard mode. Keep in mind, if all human players die, and none of the AI have a res, you will get resurrected even though the entire party has not died.--Pyron Sy 04:48, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, well I thought it might be that one of the henches didn't have 60% dp, but the number of times the party wiped I'm pretty sure they did. I was also definitely in hard mode, so I guess it must have been the lack of AI res triggering the respawn after me and my healers died, but before all of the henchies died... Aran Moridin 19:45, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Death Pact Signet on one of your characters? This could be the cause of one of their deaths resulting in no DP. --Smithy-Star 20:22, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

DPS is not on any hench bars, and he said all 3 heroes were at 60. Good idea though.--Pyron Sy 23:39, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Grothmar Wardowns possible tip?

Attempting to vanquish this area immediately after completing "Against the Charr" (in HM, of course) can be helpful. The party spawns in the middle of the Charr encampment, thus eliminating any enemy spawns in there (including a very powerful Monk boss). Not sure if this is worth noting in the page, though.--Sensei 12:52, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit: Just saw this info in the Grothmar Wardowns page too.--Sensei 12:55, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

1-Man 6-Hero Vanquishing?

So, like many players, I lack guildmates and friends to play with. Poor me, right? Anyway, this means that I'm stuck with my 3 Necro heroes (good) and 4 henchmen (bad). I do, however, have access to another account that is stocked with all heroes and skills. So my question is this: Does anyone have any experience vanquishing with 7 heroes? By this, I mean going into an explorable area with my heroes, a player on another account with their 3 heroes, and then taking that other player out of the game. The absence of the 2nd player forces their heroes to follow me. So now I have myself and 6 heroes. The advantage is that I can run whatever team build or skill set I want across 6 heroes (e.g. Sabway/Discord). The downside is that I'm short one person. I'm thinking that the benefits of running something like 6 Necros outweighs the loss of one player. Do any of you have experience doing this? What are your thoughts? Any skill recommendations to make up for the loss of a player? --Ninjatek 01:42, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I've done it on a couple occasions. Being short one player isn't a big deal when you're using a preplanned team setup. When I did it, I used my second account's discord team, and changed my heroes depending on the zone, bringing a prot monk for Ele and Rit boss zones. Just remember to map your second player out of the zone rather than just closing out the client, since it may read that as a disconnect. You don't want to be stuck with waiting out the ten minute timer, or getting both accounts back in town to start over.--Pyron Sy 20:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

I do this constantly too, mostly in Vabbi and Kaineng so far. My heroes are the Discord bomber and resto healer as well as a SoS hero. Then my other account brings the traditional Discord team. I mix and match spirits on the healers and SoS depending on what's needed and so they don't conflict, but overall it works very well with me as tank. I've been able to take out a group with a warrior boss, a monk boss, 2 monk enemies, and a slew of others all together with relative ease :D. ~Farlo Talk 09:45, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Seriously? Is it even possible that someone could be bad enough at the game to need 2 discord teams for Vanquishing? You should really take a look at the game and determine why you inhabit it. If you are automating all the gameplay are you really having any fun? Wouldn't the weekend you spend watching the game play itself have some greater use for you? I am just saying....... maybe you should re-examine your life..... 66.190.240.45 00:14, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Textmod

Is there a mod that reveals all enemies on the map at once? If there is it would save me from wandering around a nearly vanquished zone looking for the last elusive enemies.

No i do NOT think that such a mod is possible with texmod or any other software mod to be honest, I read on one of the fan sites this very same question but nothing ever came from it... T1Cybernetic 11:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't think you can solve this using textures. Your computer isn't directly aware of foes until/unless you are within compass distance. The HM indicator isn't tracking their location; it's only counts how many have spawned. In contrast, cartography-grinding can be reduced by textures, as you can adjust the amounts of shading of explored/unexplored areas.

By the way, whether my theory above is correct/not, this sounds like an idea worthy of a suggestion in the feedback area or on the Texmod talk page. Might get some developer types to imagine tweaks that they might be able to conjure up.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 00:37, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Sadly, this isn't possible currently, and no way to map them all in-game without a major map function change on the Dev's part, unless someone wanted to integrate something like this into a map mod. ~Farlo Talk 09:48, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

That would be incredibly helpful in a lot of cases, but it wouldn't have done much good for that time I spent 40 minutes tracking a handful of minotaurs in Anvil Rock. If someone actually put that pack together, I'd love to see patrol routes included. --Sahjiarah 05:13, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Suggestions

With the vanquisher being so long, I was considering of suggesting to put each campaign into a subpage and placing a link to them, to minimize down the length of the page. I'm wondering what others ideas, etc., would be. -- riyen ♥ 15:30, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I prefer everything on the same page. For those of us just getting our feet wet, it's helpful to be able to see which zones require the most/fewest kills. We could shorten the article (what/how) by moving the data (the zone-by-zone tables) to a subpage. That reduces the number of times that folks need to navigate; peeps interested in the data can even jump straight there, bypassing the stuff they already know in the main article.   — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:44, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

pop up?

ok so if a wurm pops up while vqing and it goes away so you leave do you have to kill it...or what...cuz i know they go back underground and stuff

If it pops up before you are credited for vanquishing, it must be killed.--Pyron Sy 00:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Number of Canthan Explorable Areas?

I'm probably a little slow in understanding things, the Vanquisher table says 33 areas for Cantha but there are 40 listed when following the link for Explorable Areas -> Cantha on the main page.  ??? Moebius the Malign 12:27, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

There are a number of areas with no foes that are just explorable and also some underground etc... T1Cybernetic 18:27, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

New Min for Vehtendi Valley

The Rally the Princes quest removes a few groups, especially the Ritualist boss, who is devastating. I had 225 kills with the quest active. Jafar 03:13, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

odd...

I was leveling my rainbow phoenix outside of boreal station in the ice cliff chasms in hard mode. I was spamming spirits. I realized when the worms went back down, and my spirits killed the worm, the kill didn't count in the kill count even though I got the exp. 72.178.140.142 07:29, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

collapsible and sortable tables

am i the only one who wants this? i was going to take the time to resign the tables on this page to do that but how they are set up now prevents me from doing so. + its a LOT of work (at least for me).- Zesbeer 18:50, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think sorting inside a region is too useful, they're small and clear. Sorting the entries of a whole campaign would conflict with the region headers.

Making each region collapsible would be useful, though I'm not sure if it's technically feasible. I'm against pre-Collapsing them (like the Condition article does) because then you cannot use the page until it's fully loaded - and loading this page always takes a bit longer due to it's size. Tub 11:14, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

What should we do about the areas of War in Kryta?

What should we do about the areas of War in Kryta? They have different spawns, thus different min/max-counts and possibly different notes (popups, quests, ..). Since they have their own wiki pages, I'd suggest keeping them separate in these tables as well. Like this:

Explorable area	Average count1	Min count	Max count	Average XP & gold	Bonus points	Notes
Nebo Terrace	151	138	164	755	-	Has hidden Spined Aloes. Fewer foes during A Very Grentchie Wintersday.
Nebo Terrace (War in Kryta)	210	210	210	1050	-	Has hidden Spined Aloes.
North Kryta Province	184	126	241	920	-	Has hidden foes. More foes during Graven Images and fewer foes during Defend North Kryta Province.
North Kryta Province (War in Kryta)	0	0	0	0	-	Has hidden foes. Foe count currently unknown.

Other opinions? I'd volunteer to do the needed edits and to sift through the recent edit history, but only if those changes are actually wanted. :) Tub 16:13, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea we could also place the WiK maps in a separate header something like:

Explorable area	Average count1	Min count	Max count	Average XP & gold2	Bonus points	Notes
Kryta 3
Nebo Terrace	151	138	164	755	-	Has hidden Spined Aloes. Fewer foes during A Very Grentchie Wintersday.
North Kryta Province	184	126	241	920	-	Has hidden foes. More foes during Graven Images and fewer foes during Defend North Kryta Province.
Kryta (War in Kryta) 3
Nebo Terrace (War in Kryta)	210	210	210	1050	-	Has hidden Spined Aloes.
North Kryta Province (War in Kryta)	0	0	0	0	-	Has hidden foes. Foe count currently unknown.

either way separating the regular and WiK maps and placing an note saying that vanquishing either the regular or WiK version counts towards the title is a good idea Tenri 17:03, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

If seperation is done it would be more logical in my humble opinion to place them under a new header.--Fogeltje 17:23, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

(kind of off topic) if you are going to add these to the page please add sorting and hide options to the tables that you add this page is already really long and i would go and fix all the other tables to do that but dont have time. - Zesbeer 10:42, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Added them under a new header as per your suggestions. I'd like to edit Template:Vanquisher kill count to hide the (War in Kryta) suffix of each explorable area, but my wiki-fu is too weak. Same for collapsible tables, I only know how to collapse the whole table, not how to collapse individual sections. Tub 18:44, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Just found [2], which might be used to hide the (War in Kryta) suffix, but I don't dare to edit the template. Tub 18:59, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Check my Sandbox for a attempt at hiding each section kinda ugly but better than the other alternatives I could think of Tenri 19:21, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

After completing Wanted: Inquisitor Lashona and accidentally mapping out to Nebo Terrace, I turned in the quest and came back to vanquish North Kryta Province; I finished with 203 kills without Courier Falken or any other WiK quests, though there may have been a Lynx in there. Adding the information to the table now. --Morgana1 23:13, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Kill count doubts

I have serious doubts about the Melandru's Hope min kill count of 114. I got 172 and 165 on separate vanquishes, without quests (except rhythm drinker on the first one). A difference of 50 mobs is like 30% of the creatures only spawn when you approach their region. Can anyone demonstrate that something close to 114 is possible? Jafar 14:09, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

I too seem to recall similar results last time through. Next time I go in there will check or anyone else for that matter and get this cleared up.MystiLefemEle 11:55, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

This is the edit which introduced 114 as a lower number. However, the Vanquisher article has used 114 since January 2009 so probably not even Ab.er.rant will remember the details. (For comparison, the Original wiki reports the minimum as 157.)

So, the three possibilities are: (1) this 114 number is correct, but it will be difficult to verify the circumstances; (2) the 114 number was a typo e.g. from 154, and it will be impossible to track down anyone who remembers; (3) someone snuck in 114 as a joke and no one has caught it until now. In my opinion, it would be acceptable to change the number today (to e.g. 157) and see what people report.

If it turns out ~114 is reproducible, we'll find out quickly. If 114 was a fluke situation, then using 157 actually sets expectations better for the majority of players.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:19, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Could very well have been a fluke and we are just now catching it. I agree with 157 for the time being, till proven otherwise.MystiLefemEle 07:25, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

I have made the change. Jafar 16:23, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Dispute (kill counter miscounting?)

I have scissored this from the notes: "In many areas, the bar of the kill counter will show only a fraction of monsters needed to vanquish the area. As you move around, the monster count will increase while getting more monsters in your radar." I don't believe that is true. To my knowledge (and experience), only pop-up enemies are missing from the initial kill counter, which is otherwise very accurate. Any opinions on this before I change the text? --Manassas 09:17, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

At best, the quote above is misleading. /agree w/removal. (I took the liberty of making header more specific, for future generations.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 15:12, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, here's the thing. Have you ever died and run around with your hero? You can run to areas where there should be enemies, but they won't be there until a player character gets in range. So, I think that's what skews the bar. --JonTheMon 15:14, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I've never noticed anything unusual about the progress bar, but I haven't really counted, either. I've tracked down the respective edits (binary search ftw):

this edit by Azania added: "In the city areas of Factions the bar of the kill counter will increase while getting more monsters in your radar. Getting the bar full before killing all of the monsters will not vanquish the area."

this edit by Alaris changed it to the current form. Neither author appears to be active on the wiki any more.

I think we (read: not me ;)) should test whether that actually happens in faction's city areas or if it's just a side-effect of all those Am Fah and Jade Brotherhood popups. Tub 15:26, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

This might be related to the quick vanquish of Tahnakai Temple. There used to be a method where it was possible to vanquish that area with just two kills when someone had a certain quest active. But you had to be careful about not going too far into the zone or you would spawn more foes and then you were required to vanquish the whole area. I have no clue what the mechanic behind this was (not regular pop ups as it seemed).--Fogeltje 18:09, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I've VQ'd all but 14 zones and I've never had a situation where the counter was missing foes. If heroes can spawn pops, those are already included in the counter. If heroes cannot make them appear, they aren't held against the VQ. In particular, in factions, if you take one of the supply/army quests, there are all kinds of extra pops that are explicitly not included in the VQ until they actually show their ugly faces. (I've gotten credit for plenty of VQs only to get surprised by the Kurz/Lux pops while going back for a chest or forgotten item.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:26, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Pops are different than pre-determined mobs for Vanq, from what I understand. Even pre-determined mobs don't spawn until you are in radar range (or just a little larger). Like, if you are getting close to radar range of pops, they'll be very, very briefly in selection range before disappearing. --JonTheMon 18:54, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Here is a good example of it miscounting: enter waijun bazaar and kill the mantid mobs. The counter shows about 90% completion - this is untrue since theres only 20 mantids of the 200 foes in the area. File:User Chieftain Alex Miscount.jpg --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 19:20, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

In Wajjun Bazaar, there could be only 20 foes (depending on active quests) (in fact, my toons keep a certain quest active just to make the area easier to navigate). However, point taken: this could be more interesting than what I had previously thought.

The original wiki has this to say: "The Vanquishing kills counter is glitched in this area, since Jade Brotherhood and Am Fah roam this area and are not counted until they are just outside of radar range.

So, I would argue that Wajun is an anomaly and that the counter works properly unless we can find more than just 2-3 areas where it's a problem. After all, the point of having a note is to alert people reading the article to an issue, not to make them paranoid about a tool that's 99% accurate.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:19, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok fair enough ( but I didn't have seek out brother tosai / closer to the stars active ) --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 09:38, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I've vanquished all of Cantha, all of Elona, all of EotN and currently about half of Tyria and I have never experienced the kill counter to be anything but a great tool in monitoring my progress. Yes, I did exploit the glitches in Zen Daijun, Tahnnakai and Wajjun, but then I wouldn't expect the counter to be useful. In the light of this discussion I suggest we remove the misleading note and put in an anomaly note about the areas in mention. --Manassas 13:30, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

After reviewing all the KC-zone articles, I couldn't find any that mention a glitch, bug, or specific set of conditions whereby the kills-counter shows incorrect progress. I've rephrased the note to indicate at least one zone could have an issue, in case people are able to document others.

I think for now, the evidence shows that the kills-counter works as intended (counting pop-ups after they pop) with things like hidden Am Fah, Mantids, and such being consistent with other pops. (I'm not 100% convinced that even Wajjun is glitched, but I don't see that it does great harm to the wiki to keep a note here and on the Wajjun article.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:52, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

It's been a while since I've vanquished a Kaining City map but this was true for all of the Jade Brotherhood and Am Fah spawns except for their bosses so with some quests and careful killing you can avoid killing all the enemies you would find if you ran around then killed them all. The fact that the bosses are included in the required kills when you start the vanquish means that you will have to kill most of the enemies no matter how hard you try to avoid he case.

The range for them to be counted is unusual and it seems that they act like pop-ups that spawn within radar range or just outside it.

A good example is as stated earlier the 2-kill vanquish of Tahnakai Temple while you have A Meeting With the Emperor in your quest log because that quest removes most of the hostile Temple Guardians and you only have to kill the 2 that remain but not get to close to the jade spawns. -- Tenri 03:19, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I recently vanq'd all of Kaineng, and I can say that this problem has happened in almost every zone, with no quests active in any of them. One looked as if it was almost done with less than 20 mobs, and Raisu Palace looks complete fairly soon too. ~Farlo Talk 05:04, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Having finished vanquishing recently as well, I can also attest that this happens to the kill count meter from time to time. --★KOKUOU★ 05:12, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Erm, to clarify the issue: does the kill-counter ever miscount the number of active red dots in the map? Where active means spawned and/or popped. The evidence seems to say, "no, no miscounting at all."

• In Wajjun, there are screenshots suggesting that the Mantids work like pops (e.g. they do not have to be killed to get VQ credit, unless you get too close).
• In KC area (including Wajjun), there are Am Fah and/or Brotherhood that don't appear and they, too, work like pops (").

I've left a note in for Wajjun b/c people are often misled by the progress bar there. That is: the kills-counter is working as intended, but it's not helping people figure out how much is left to do (since, often, in order to get the "few dots" you have little choice but to force the pops to appear).

That said, I think we are all interested in evidence that might show if the kills counter is miscounting active pops. In the meantime, I don't think this counts as a bug. If the misleading situation applies to more than just Wajjun, let's document the circumstances on the relevant articles before changing the note here.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:46, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the counter is mis-counting "active" mobs on the map, at least not in Wajjun's case, but I do think that it was a lazy way to fix a problem with the mob spawns.

All theory here, don't enraeg on me: Let's say, pre-HM, when count was worthless, most of the mobs (if not all) spawned as you approached them, be it radar range, or whatever. They might have tried this to reduce server congestion or for another reason, and left it be post-launch. Once HM was launched, instead of making all the mobs spawn when you map into the zone like most others, they only made a few groups "permanent" and left the rest of them hidden waiting to be triggered.

This would allow for the gauge to show it being almost done with no where near the real amount killed, but also made it so you couldn't get an easy vanq because to get to those mobs they made permanent, you had to travel across the map and trigger the rest. Say they had a group or 2 by each exit (Mantids by Naphui, Jade Brotherhood by Marketplace, or the like), then there would be no way you could vanq it without traveling across the entire zone and spawning the rest.

Sorry about the tl;dr, but I hope it's clearly explained >.< ~Farlo Talk 09:38, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Your almost right as I said in my post the Bosses are the permanent groups you were talking about, and yes its not a bug as I'm fairly sure they act like popups I went looking again and saw a few drop down with ropes or whatever from the edge of vision so they are popups with a very large triggering range but normal aggro range. The problem is the bosses themselves and the close proximity of groups to each other.

• For Wajjun the Mantid and the 3 bosses are required kills (disregarding quests that change spawns) but in order to kill the bosses you will trigger almost all the Jade and Am Fah groups if not all of them.
• In Bukdek it is just the 3 bosses that are originally counted but once more to kill the bosses you trigger large chains of enamies and end up fighting most of them.

I could list all of the maps but that takes to long, in short non-popup afflicted, bosses(with the exception of one or two popup bosses), shiro-ken, vermin and the mantids in Wajjun are set on the kill count when you enter the maps in the city, and to kill those enemies you will find most if not all of the other groups.

So the kill counter isn't wrong by game mechanics it is showing you the percentage of the enemies wandering around the map that are dead the problem is the fact that that number is around 10% or less of the total enemies you are likely to encounter, and therefore extremely misleading.

I'm not sure how to reword the notes to explain this and it is a problem on all the Kaineng maps with Jade and Am Fah mobs present. -- Tenri 05:36, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Title Progress Bar Stuck

I noticed that my progress bar was showing 9/54 vanquished for Tyria, when I had in fact vanquished 12. I then vanquished Perdition Rock, and it still showed 9/54. I then waited a week (hoping it would fix itself) and now I just finished vanquishing Eastern_Frontier. Counter still shows 9/54. Anyone heard of this happening before? They appear vanquished on my map. I have the vanquish title for the night fall campaign, but for whatever reason my progress seems frozen for tyria.... I'm very distressed about this. Hopefully there is something obvious I'm overlooking 50.15.10.242 06:22, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Video guides to VQ?

(Moved from Vanquisher.) User:Darkjoe31 suggests that we should add this link to the page: Dv Productions Guide to Vanquishing. I'd like to see some discussion about what type of video would be of use to the wiki for pursuing a title that requires dozens/hundreds of hours. The current text advice is decent/better and fairly compact.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:57, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

It's hard for me to imagine a useful video for such a basic concept; go to the explorables, kill all the monsters. The text information on this page is nice for estimating how long an area will take, but the last thing it needs is a video saying you need sabway and a spirit spammer to vanquish effectively.Erring Ryft 09:31, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Minimum counts..

Shouldn't the minimum counts be a lot lower than they are stated on here? For example Bukdek Byway has a 1 kill vanquish, and Tahnnakai has a 2 kill vanquish.--Kryzz 19:00, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Putting a 1 or 2 in the minumum section would severely skew the average. However, those exceptions are noted on the page, as well as Zen Daikun's 1 animal vanquish.-- Pyron Sy 21:40, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

The minimum and maximum counts are meant to give players an idea what to expect. Unusual minimums (taking all the quests that nerf the counts) or maximums (forcing spawns, killing animals, etc) are interesting to min-maxers, but not useful to most players.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:24, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I've just completed vanquishing Nebo Terrace w/ WiK active (due to SB Bounty) and we completed with only 204 kills. I would edit the chart but I don't want that to throw off someone's averaging. Whoever is most into the counts/mins/maxes/avgs can adjust accordingly. Terryn Deathward 04:57, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Matching Numbers

Whoever has a lot of free time, please go about all the pages for every single zone in the game and rematch the vanquish values and recalculate all the averages. Nibelhim 03:15, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I think we might be better off setting up a template to use on the explorable pages that updates this one automatically (or vice-versa). It's a lot more work than it looks to keep the explorable pages synchronized with this one.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:11, 22 December 2010 (UTC)