Talk:Winds of Change/A5

(Non-disscussion) How do the quests affect spawns?

Ok, so all these headings are cluttered and useless argument (mostly thanks to me :P), so I'm just gonna slap this at the bottom and hopefully start over. I'm not sure if this info is helpful or has been mentioned, but my friend took the first WoC quest, but then abandoned it, and so far doesn't see any WoC mobs. So things appear to not change until progress has been made, he was alone with heroes for those runs as I'd screw it up, but things haven't been consistent that we've seen, so who know. More data! ~FarloTalk 04:02, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

yes you have to have completed the quests for the new spawns to take over. and i dont think that they will revert after woc just because the name of the chapter is: Winds of change and because it would not make much sense for the afflicted to magically come back. even if they do have better bars, with everything in gw the bars will be out of date and easy to roll in 3-4 patches. (it made sense for wik because we defeated the white mantle) just like how at the start of night fall for some it was a hard.- Zesbeer 04:48, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

To Farlo:

That part has been addressed. But, it's not quite as Zesbeer states it (close, though). If you take and abandon the FIRST WoC quest, the spawns stay at their pre-WoC condition. However, once you complete the first quest, whether you take any others is irrelevant: All 12 WoC zones have the new spawns.

Then, as you complete each quest, the spawns change again to the much tougher ones that are intended for that zone between Factions and GW2. Daddicus 19:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

To Zesbeer:

Actually, lore-wise it makes absolutely no sense for WoC to be the way it is. First, the comparison to WiK actually destroys the "lore argument", because at the end of WiK, the White Mantle are still in charge of Lion's Arch. I'm sure this was done because it is still a game, and the areas need to be playable as they were for the game to really make sense. WoC makes the zones change, and in the process destroys the playability in terms of original game titles, hard mode, etc. People might want to try their hand at killing off hard mode afflicted, but if they complete WoC before they attempt hard mode, they won't be able to do it. And, this change is apparently forever.

Secondly, and even more devastatingly to the "lore argument" is that, if the scavengers were waiting in the wings for we tough hero-types to wipe out the despicable aflicted, why didn't they simply do it themselves? They are far more powerful than any of the afflicted they replace in the game. No, logically valid lore would have the zones be empty of most foes once the afflicted were destroyed, only gradually filling back in (probably with native populations which were in hiding, i.e. original spawns minus afflicted). The exception might be the Am Fah in some zones, since they were on the same side as the afflicted (or, thought they were). Daddicus 19:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

actually no the reason that lions arch never changes is the same reason that there is Murro that gives you the quests for wik (instead of a say shinning blade scout) the town is time locked into the time that the player firsts encounters it and this is true of all towns. see hells pres. you shouldn't be able to visit that outpost after you complete the mission lore wise, same thing is true about pre-seering. also hard for the player=/= hard for the npcs what i am saying is just because they have hard bars for us doesn't mean that they have "hard bars" lore wise. i am sure konig knows how that is played out better then i but that is how i was told to understand it.- Zesbeer 19:26, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Keeping this short becuase I wanted to avoid long discussions in this section and keep it a compilation of info, but the gameplay vs. lore argument is a bit weird and it works both ways, thus scavengers couldn't kill them (because of lore), but are harder for the player's sake (gameplay). Also, the White Mantle aren't in chage anymore, read the last line of Salma's page, as well as Lion's Arch Keep and Timeline. ~FarloTalk 19:36, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

"People might want to try their hand at killing off hard mode afflicted, but if they complete WoC before they attempt hard mode, they won't be able to do it." If you want to fight Afflicted in Hard mode, go do one of the Factions missions in Hard mode that have Afflicted in it. --Silver Edge 20:18, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

You both missed the point: Lion's Arch still has the White Mantle in charge. I can still vanquish any area as it existed at that time in game lore. It is as Zesbeer said: It's time-locked. So, why is Winds of Change NOT time-locked? (Remember: On another forum, an ANet employee officially stated that they have no plans to revert back to original spawns.)

You confused me because you're referring to LA as if it was Kryta as a whole and I thought you were saying they were in charge lore-wise. In terms of gameplay, yeah, they're still around, but I think it's way cooler when things are permanently changed, it shows some growth and evolution in the world. The only part that sucks is if you're not ready for it or if all the crap that has just happened happens. ~FarloTalk 21:24, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Lion's Arch, the outpost, is timelocked. Kryta, the region, is not. WiK is "reverted" in game mechanics because there are things which may be needed or desired that are removed with WiK (Decayed Orr Emblems for one). This has not happened to WoC yet because unlike WiK, it is not complete (WiK does not revert until you complete The Battle for Lion's Arch). Most likely, WoC will revert itself. Though if its more properly balanced, I don't think many people will care... Konig/talk 03:49, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually, after WIK, we have a queen in the keep of Lion's Arch, she's not there before. Ramei Arashi 10:20, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) It occurs to me that there's another point to consider, this one a sort of blending of gameplay and lore. WoC is accessible only by completing Factions, therefore there's a sort of sense that a player in a one-player party would see only WoC state after beginning WoC. That said, however, it remains, from a gameplay point of view, a bit harsh that I cannot see pre-WoC stuff if I go out with you who have not even finished Factions. (Also, since it is feasible to reach Kaineng Center before level 20, if I go out with you, you have to face WoC foes while only barely being able to deal with pre-WoC foes. Not really ideal.)

WiK, however, is available to non-Prophs characters who have completed EotN but have not done anything in the Prophecies areas other than arrive in Lion's Arch and exit into North Kryta Province. This, or something very much like it, happened to one of my Nightfallers. Technically, she had done more than described, in that she had retrieved Olias and stomped back to Ascalon City, but that doesn't change the fact that she should be able to go through WiK without locking out the baseline Prophecies storyline. (If this should not be possible, then finishing EotN should not be a sufficient condition for activating WiK.)

(Why stomp back to Ascalon City? Because I could, and because if I hadn't done it, I wouldn't have been able to run around there showing off my shiny new Vabbian armour. I have vanity, too, you know.)

Cynique 12:48, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

@Ramei not really all that happens is a npc lets you into the keep. lore wise the keep would just be empty if you were some how able to get into the keep pre queen getting there.- Zesbeer 23:55, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

When do the spawns change (data collection)

It's clear that we haven't documented what changes and when...yet, so I hope that we can do so here.

Please use this section to post your observations/experiences with which spawns you see and under what circumstances. Emphasize what you see rather than why that's what you see; once we have a few observations in each zone, we can attempt to spot patterns. Thanks for helping.

(There are plenty of sections on the page for debating the merits/difficulty/lore; let's keep this one strictly focused on observations. Thanks!) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:02, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Data collection

← moved to Winds of Change/spawn research

NPC Changes Due to Winds of Change

I'm not sure if it's already been noticed/discussed (I wasn't able to find it), but monsters aren't the only NPC spawns that change permanently once you start Winds of Change. E.g., I was trying to craft a 15^50 Protective Rod for my Ritualist's Dunkoro. The wiki said Sheco (weaponsmith) in Bukdek Byway can craft one, but when I went there I couldn't find him. My Ritualist had the Cleansing Bukdek Byway quest active, so I figured maybe Sheco was temporarily removed for the quest. After completing the quest, Sheco was still missing (though the Afflicted were replaced by Am Fah). I had to load a character who hadn't started Winds of Change to be able to get Sheco to spawn in Bukdek Byway!

I noticed other NPCs missing from Bukdek as well once you start Winds of Change, e.g., Minister Khannai & Onghsang. These two have a quest attached to them, and I wonder if the quest would be uncompletable once you start Winds. --Ctran 11:19, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Could you add your data to the above table? I'll retitle the relevant columns. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:02, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Getting on with this story

Does someone else noticed the quotes of NPC on the twitter-account [1] of GuildWars? They started to appear on 26 sept with a qoute of Reiko. Does this mean part 2 will be live soon? --Mann Of Light 18:28, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it seems we'll be getting Part 2 soon. Today they posted a quote from Miku, so perhaps she'll appear. 128.113.145.166 22:23, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

And a quote from Ashu as well. Ramei Arashi 01:10, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

And NPC's we dont have seen yet. --Mann Of Light 12:04, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

And confirmed release today! --Lordkrall 16:03, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Confirmed on their facebook page, if anyone was curious. •••Mora 16:54, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Too bad this time, I don't intend on doing those quests. Boring and no reward, hopefully the other weapons will be interesting though. The sword and shield are relatively unimpressive, and since the Oppressor weapons were so ugly to me, I doubt I can expect much [out of GW from now on.] --Saera Serena

To bad for you more like it. Rewards after all the new quests are completed is Ministerial Commendations, Imperial Commendations, 8 Lockpicks, 1 Silver Zaishen Coin, 1 Ruby, 1 Diamond, 1 Sapphire, 1 Onyx Gemstone, and about 1.5-2 plat per quest. Also 5 Gold Requistion Orders of some sort. Though I wasn't able to find a trader for them yet. I expect they will be used for the good exchange items in phase 3 following the order of WiK. Kyoraku‎ 14:28, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

It's a short part imo. Completed it in NM 3 hours after release.. 82.161.39.143 14:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Yea I wasn't happy with the length either. Plus not finding HM versions of the quests. Kyoraku‎ 14:39, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

HM quests exist.. They aren't ridiculously hard like those in part 1. Waar Kijk Je Naar™ 15:29, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

You can't get the new quests HM versions until you finish the part 1 HM quests. I'm still stuck on the Rescue at Minister Cho's. Ramei Arashi 21:23, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, seriously. Rescue at Minister Cho's estate is obnoxious as hell on Hard Mode--Focomotive 00:05, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Part 2

I enjoyed it much more than I did Part 1. Anyone else agree? :O [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 15:59, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

It was far less frustrating, and much more rewarding. Great platinum and rare materials, and hell even green drops to boot! I'm going to save the last quest and not hand it in just for farming's sake (it's nice since mobs just keep coming and coming, you can just sit there and let your heroes do the work ;D)128.119.156.85 16:02, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Rare materials? --Musha 17:44, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Onyx, Diamond, Ruby and Sapphire are quest rewards Waar Kijk Je Naar™ 18:13, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I should have been less vague. Farming for greens. 128.119.156.85 18:16, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Greens? I haven't seen any. Ramei Arashi 21:22, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:Ministry_of_Purity 72.79.215.24 21:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the original post, I just did the whole thing today and found it so much more rewarding and fun than Part 1. Not to say I hated Part 1 by any means, but I do recognize that it was a fair amount of grind... And the new content is much easier while still being challenging, which is great. Also, I think it was refreshing to have the "Your ally cannot die or you fail the quest." thing back for once; we've been getting lazy since EotN introduced ally-ressing.  :) Takes me back to Rurik's good old days. 128.113.145.166 22:25, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Category:Winds of Change unique items --Silver Edge 22:33, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Is anyone else extremely worried about the direction the dev team seems to be heading? WiK was great, HON was pretty good, and phase one was tedious but logical and necessary. Phase two quite frankly shatters the immersion at every step through both the story and the gameplay. For one of many examples, the entire story could have been derailed if any of the people present had realized that ashu was miku's brother, but evidently he's forgotten her just like everyone in Cantha and she's incapable of mentioning it. Additionally, the crowd ignores your past accomplishments and blithely accepts your vilification. Instead of the gradual degradation, or a discovery of clandestine operations to escalate the situation it's RAWR WE'RE EVIL NOW. Gameplay wise the missions are just gimmicky and mundane. There's nothing new and the unpredictable insta-death situations(a favor returned if you don't have IMS for example) really take away from it. The dev team really phoned it in on this one, but hey the loot's better and that's the important thing right?--Stratzvyda 23:22, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

You make a good point with the player character being instantly vilified at the start of Part 2. There could have been a tad more defamation going on, but I suppose they didn't want to drag that out too much (considering after the previous quest, our character had pretty much already turned against the Ministry, just not overtly). I don't quite understand what you're getting at with Ashu--you mean that the people of Cantha would stop being seduced to their zealotry if they learned that Miku was his sister? Well... perhaps Miku intended to reveal this, but she did pull her stunt of walking up to the leader of the Ministry with daggers drawn, and nobody actually knows who she is (including the player) until about halfway through the questline. And if you've gotten far enough, you'll notice that Ashu appears to be completely brainwashed to the point of rejecting his long-lost sister in favor of Reiko and the Ministry. Complaining about the Ministry being SUDDENLY EVIL! is also a bit misplaced, since there were obvious signs to their corruption/zealotry in Part 1 if you paid attention to the dialogues with the members. Also, I don't see how you could call the quests gimmicky. I didn't need any special builds for a single one of them (Normal Mode only, haven't even started Part 1 in HM just yet) aside from the initial fight alongside Soar Honorclaw, and that was only because we were stuck with four party members. Insta-death situations, believe it or not, have been here since Prophecies, and it kept me having fun and on my toes knowing I couldn't just ignore my allies. Of course, my opinion on the quests being far more fun than the "Go here, kill Afflicted" from Part 1 is just my opinion after all, but I don't think that just because they didn't introduce any brand new mechanics, they weren't fairly well-designed quests. 128.113.145.166 23:59, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

While i agree that there were hints before, they also were friendly and encouraging to you, right up to the brick wall of the betrayal. I also agree that the quests are more fun on their own, but in basically every quest there are instances which left me thinking this makes no sense. Also a preference/story thing that's been niggling at me for a while is why can't they have larger numbers of lvl 20 or less enemies like in WiK rather than higher level enemies, always amusing when faceless minion of the popular movement #743 is more powerful than a killer of a god and several godlike figures.--Stratzvyda 11:05, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I like to think that the Canthan fanatics are going through some insane training for all of this, hence the sheer ungodly dedication and power of all their members. 128.113.145.166 13:52, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

"Also a preference/story thing" levels are not a story thing. It's 100% pure gameplay, and these guys are meant to be "end-game" - further into the story than the gods and god-like beings that we fought before, so in mechanics they'll be stronger/as strong/almost as strong as the older foes' head-machos while in lore they're just like everybody else. It's just to slowly increase the difficulty of gameplay as you continue playing (and, hopefully, continue getting better at playing the game). of course, there's a point where the increase must come to an end, and I think they're reaching it for NM.

I personally prefer "harder enemies" over "moar enemies" like the WiK simply because fewer-but-harder enemies are easier to manage (even if they're tougher to beat). Plus there's less lag for those with crappier computers. Konig/talk 16:40, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I've got serious doubts over the direction of this storyline. For 6 years now, GW PvE has revolved around killing everything that stands in your way. To the extent that there were exceptions, such as escort or item-hunting quests, they were rare and served mostly to provide variety. But now, we're supposed to feel guilty about the guys being killed, even though we were happily slaughtering them just months (or even days) ago? And this dissonance even shows up in the quests themselves: eg in Violence in the Streets, my character voices shock at the way the Ministry is killing the Jade Brotherhood. However, should I move in, my party simply joins in the fun and starts hacking them up as well.

I can appreciate that John and the rest of the team want to try something different, but this change of direction really needs a more in-depth treatment than is possible given the current constraints. -- Hong 16:30, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

John wants us to be as human and moraly correct as possible. In WoC we are the righteous and forgiving hero who wants to fix things with as little violence as possible. The actions we take and have taken before don't quite follow however, but you could say it's that the hero we play has matured and now sees things differently that the young impulsive hero it used to be. Da Mystic Reaper 17:05, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'd feel a little better about this more morally upstanding turn if the player character wasn't also constantly bragging of previous successes. One instance that felt specifically out of place was pretty much the entirety of Honorable Combat. It goes from trying to talk down a vengeful Aerie, to declaring wholesale slaughter in face of overwhelming numbers and back to putting names to the faceless enemies. So inconsistent. -Yossitaru 23:09, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

@Hong: There is a pretty huge difference in the situations; if you note, most of the foes to date have been unreasonable murderous and most often immoral foes (from titans, plague abominations, and demons to war-inciting charr, xenophobic dwarves, and oppressive zealots). However, come Winds of Change... that's no longer the case. It is the case in the first portion - hence why the PC is so eager to help - and the Am Fah can be demonized very easily due to The Chalice of Corruption. The Jade Brotherhood less-so, but because they're criminals the PC knows that no-violence isn't an option (same goes with fighting Xan Hei, but for different reasons - both are "kill or be killed" situations), but with the rest of the Ministry of Purity? That's not the case. With the one making Afflicted gone in the Am Fah, and seeing a seemingly reasonable person, perhaps the PC saw a chance of redemption (he's certainly attempting such) - which is not new. Note that the PC has worked with enemies before *charr*.

@Yossitaru: I don't see what you're talking about. The PC does brag, weirdly enough, but it doesn't contradict or create inconsistencies. Konig/talk 17:49, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

lost

Hey guys, i finished part 1 of winds of change but i can't start part 2. Here is a screenshot of the npcs: http://img257.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=795160919_Untitled_122_448lo.jpg None have a quest for me, does anyone know whats going on ? Ty Vtxn 06:46, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Just for clarification: Part 1 ends with the quest What Waits in Shadow while Part 2 starts with A Chance Encounter and ends with A Treaty's a Treaty. Are you saying that you finished What Waits in Shadow and now can't access A Chance Encounter? --Musha 07:25, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

what i think could have happened is that you finished a chance encounter thinking that it was the end of part 1 where it was the start and then didn't read what miku said and go to Guardsman Qao Lin in kc.- Zesbeer 07:52, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

Well the thing is Xan Hei doesn't show up for me "directly outside Senji's Corner" and i've done all Zei Ri quests that includes Cleansing Morostav Trail and i can't start A Chance Encounter cause i don't have Xan Hei o.O Vtxn 09:06, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Make sure you're in normal mode looking for Xan Hei (if you did Cleansing Morostav in NM). Make sure you got the reward for Cleansing Morostav. Make sure you're going into Xaquang Skyway out of Senji's Corner, not the other area. Xan Hei is standing on the pedestal just to the left of you, when exiting Senji's. Just to be safe, make sure you go out and get it alone (there aren't any enemies nearby). If none of that works at all, I haven't got any idea as to why he isn't spawning for you. 129.161.36.148 18:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Does part two fix the insanely dumb part one changes?

I would like to know if they got their heads screwed back on yet: Did they revert the spawns back to Factions-original spawns? Or, do I have to wait for part three and keep my fingers crossed? Daddicus 20:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't change any spawns... but honestly, the scavengers aren't that bad, except maybe in minister cho's. If you have a good hero setup (panic mesmer, sos/resto rit, mm/smiter), it's really not as bad as it could be. I still recommend cons, though, because otherwise it just becomes a grind. -- Armond Warblade 22:05, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

It changes spawns, but only from Am Fah/Jade Brotherhood to Ministry of Purity. Builds remain the same. Konig/talk 22:10, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Crossing my fingers for phase three to undo it. Bummer.

And to the guy who thought it was doable, I'm stuck on one of my main toons (the one I use with my daughter), and we're basically cut off from several titles until they fix it. I've tried other builds, etc, but I think we may need to "hire" someone. (We're stuck in the Haiju Lagoon one. We are just totally overmatched there. The magical trick doesn't work, at least for us, and the hordes are impossible for us to beat. We've wasted piles of consumables trying, but it's not even close.) :( Daddicus 05:51, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

@Daddicus have you tried aura of the lich and pulling the npc back (by having it heal the minion you could do the same thing with a vamp she will run out of the lagoon) thats what i did if you are talking about the quest if you are talking about vanquishing just bring summons and consets and pull and bring blind.- Zesbeer 05:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the spawns will ever revert to the original ones, because that wouldn't make sense. The Afflicted are supposed to be dead now, would be weird that they would return in big numbers as soon as the ministry is gone or whatever will happen. Waar Kijk Je Naar™ 06:10, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Sad to say, I think you may be correct. However, logically, the whole thing makes no sense. Why the heck would any scavenger wait until we big strong heroes come to wipe out the afflicted for them? Any scavenger could easily solo the entire zone with the old spawns. So, their whole WoC storyline is built upon a nonsensical premise. It works because it is a GAME, and a playable MMORP GAME needs reasonable enemies, not impossible or nearly impossible ones.

My real hope, though, is that they realize their mistake in creating this mess and use the end of the story line to correct their error, like they did with WiK. Frankly, it's my only hope at getting these characters back as playable entities (within part of factions -- they work fine elsewhere). Daddicus 15:07, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I think that's what will happen. WiK spawns didn't leave until the story reached its conclusion. It's only natural that WoC's will do the same. At the very least they should revert back when the party leader hasn't started WoC (which would be an acceptable solution for me). [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 00:55, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

But i have a feeling that won't be the case this time. In WiK the enemies disapeared because the White Mantle were defeated together with the Peacekeepers who were nothing more than mercenaries. Since they were all defeated the spawns returned to normal so there is a reason for WiK spawns to return to normal after it concluded. The only enemies that spawn are the mobs for the bounties so people can collect medal of honors. In the case of WoC where the Afflicted have all been defeated and replaced it is highly unlikely they will return just like that. Also the scource wich created them has also been eliminated so no new Afflicted can spawn anymore. Aflicted respawning without a reason when WoC is concluded would make no sense whatsoever, expect they will remain replaced but hopefully by less powerful enemies. In the end like WiK there will most likely be a place where the Aflicted can still be killed for the plagueborn weapons but will likely not spawn troughout Cantha like they used to do. Da Mystic Reaper 13:30, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I certainly hope the Afflicted don't come back. That's the whole reason we started this storyline. However, I have no qualms with some weaker replacement enemies. Although Winds of Change is supposed to be a post-campaign ordeal, so I imagine the line of thinking goes that you should be able to handle it; but I agree that some of the enemies are over-powered (mostly the Scavengers, I've had very little trouble with any of the newer gang foes). And if I were to guess, I'd say that the fact that WoC spawns don't revert if you have a pre-WoC party member is definitely a bug, considering the rest of the game (as far as I'm aware) relies on the least-accomplished player for spawns. That said, it seems strange that they didn't fix it with the launch of Part 2. But if it is a bug, I'm sure it's on their to-do list. 128.113.145.166 21:42, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

(reset indent) I would like to see few more buttons on the party leader panel, in addition to "Normal Mode" and "Hard Mode", that affects the initial scripting when entering a zone. For example, checkboxes for "No WiK" and "No WoC" would suppress either WiK or WoC or both (obviously there are no zones that have both WiK and WoC, but you get my point). There could be other buttons to cause certain other events to happen or not to happen. That's my two cents worth. 66.47.27.36 17:25, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Insanely difficult

WoC is just too damn hard and poorly designed. Forget about hard mode. After the stupid dervish nerf, I'm not buying anymore upgrades and I won't buy GW2. There's no point in playing this stupidly difficult game, because it's not fun anymore. If they can trash GW, then I won't take the chance on them trashing GW2.66.47.27.36 04:07, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

WoC is not difficult at all dude. You simply have to watch your party setup, utilise your builds and manage your party properly. As for the actual content, I'm bored. WTB Imperial Weaponry please! Elementalist needs the Air Staff to complete my Set of Staves! (See Userspace if you'd like to see, xP) Donutdude 03:50, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. -- Armond Warblade 04:11, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I've actually found normal mode to be rather easy... No cons or anything. Just me and my heroes (and for some, a friend's warrior), and I'm using a no-elite skill bar as well. Hard mode is more tedious, but I haven't done enough of it to merit a real comment. If you find it hard... Change your party set up. Konig/talk 04:25, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm with you on the difficulty, friend. It's not bad enough by itself for me to avoid GW2. However, couple this with ANet's complete refusal to do anything about the leeching/leaving/bot problem in PvP and it shows an appalling lack of understanding about what makes a game fun.

With hard mode, users have a choice. They can simply ignore hard mode, as probably 90% of players over the years have done. But, with WoC, it appears they simply do not understand the difference between and average player and a "pro". To a pro, difficult equals fun. But, to an average player, "too difficult" means frustration and eventually quitting the game. And to players fighting players, fun means a reasonable chance of winning based purely on skill vs. skill. Over 90% of the matches I play in PvP have bots in them, or a leaver, or a leech, or some combination. The winners are nearly always determined by which side had the fewest leavers/leeches/bots. But any suggestion to correct it is either ignored or written off.

They have lost track of the definition of fun. I sadly cannot think of any way to get through to them since they don't accept suggestions via the support team and they don't bother reading the suggestion sections on this wiki (or, rather, don't DO anything about them). Plus, having players like the first responder here giving you the brushoff, that's like putting icing on their cake. Sad. I had high hopes when Stume (spelling?) took over (based on his initial letter), but even he doesn't seem to be able to get anything positive done of late. Daddicus 06:26, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

The difficulity is fine and i am having no problems with it whatsoever, truth to be told my heroes tend to near kill the enemy mobs before i even get the chance to deal any serious hits. If you simply take the correct hero setup and have your build adpeted to the enemies as well you won't have any trouble with it in NM even if you are not a pro. If you are having trouble with it is not a bad thing since you learn from it and adept your heroes. If you find it Insanely Difficult you simply suck at it because WoC is nowhere near Insanely Difficult. If you really can't manage WoC in NM then indeed quit playing GW and don't bother buying GW2 because you suck at the game and should go play a different game since GW isn't the game for you. Da Mystic Reaper 11:55, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I found Part 1 fairly difficult, and Part 2 to be challenging, but during Part 2 I wiped maybe twice through the entire chain. And I don't use "leet" hero builds. I use the wiki to put together builds on my own, invest some money in runes and mods for their weapons, and take them out without much testing. They can steamroll most of Normal Mode and had very few problems dealing with the WoC Part 2 mobs. If you're finding Part 2 insanely difficult then you should probably go practice making some balanced teams. For the record, this is from someone who plays daily but very rarely copy-pastes builds and strategies from anywhere. 129.161.37.191 18:14, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Dervish nerf? Dervishes have warrior skills now. They can hit 3 people at once with Backbreaker. Dervishes got mad power. I also think WoC is hard but i suck at everything remotely HM. DemonicFahrir 19:37, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Howzabout if we all can avoid calling each other names just because some people find WoC to be insanely challenging and others don't. There are a number of things in GW that some people learn by instinct but others need to be taught. If you're lucky enough to know these things already, then, sure WoC I or II might not be that hard.

Likewise, I don't buy the argument that people should just be able to use any builds that worked for VQs or defeating Factions in HM. I think ANet has done the right thing by creating mobs that are tougher: stealing player build ideas, updating the soul explosions, and generally creating more balanced opponents. This presents an opportunity for players to step up their level of play: take advantage of powerful skill combos, use more title skills (some of which are more powerful than some elites), re-balance hero teams, and develop new tactics.

Largely, the WoC walkthroughs try to point people towards some of these ideas, but the wiki could probably use more guide articles, e.g. offering suggestions for HM (for journeymen players) and for Beyond (e.g. for veterans of HM, who dislike the current challenge presented by WiK or WoC). A couple of us have created articles within our user space, but perhaps the community should consider something like this for mainspace, too. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:26, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

The main problem is that most players can't or won't be bothered to expend additional effort beyond "load up pvx build #307, 7 random heroes, faceroll keyboard, and hope I win". These players don't want challenge, and they don't want to get better. They just want to have "a good time". 76.78.119.15 19:57, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Most players? Not from what I've seen. All of the players that I know in-game that have expressed frustration with the difficulty of WoC have stated that they do want to learn how to handle the new mobs. They don't want to use PvX-way; they want to have a good time by learning what works and defeating the AI. I think their reaction is that the WoC is so much harder than anything that they have encountered before, it seems (to them) that they have no hope of doing it without the help of other, better-skilled players. What they expected was that the new content would be difficult, but not feel impossible.

Since I've had an opportunity to observe these folks play, it's clear to me that they could manage, but the problem is one of confidence; they don't see a light at the end of the tunnel. It strikes me, then, that there should be some level of advice this wiki could offer that would help such players feel that they are able to rise to the challenge.

Maybe the issue isn't that WoC is insanely difficult, but that (some) players saw difficulty jump from 5 on a 10-point scale to 8. If you're already playing at 10, you'll see the new content as interesting, but not that hard. If you're playing at 6, the content goes from easy to impossible. So perhaps another strategy is to point players to intermediate challenges, places that they could incrementally improve from 6→7 and 7→8. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 20:22, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not against a WoC guide including builds and hero team setups, but what i don't want is GWwiki turning into a PvX. Like said there are users who have their builds on their user page and it would be an option to post those builds on the guide section or have a link to the user page where the build comes from. Because like i said before and am still saying is that good builds do make a difference and it is something i have learned out of experience. Since WoC i have been tweaking with my heroes as well and found it a challenge but completed part 2 easily. Then again i can be counted as one of those experienced players but it's from the experienced players. Even i got wiped a couple of times but that was because i did not know what enemies i was going to fight and how the quests were set up. After knowing what to do i completed them with little trouble (i would lie if i would be saying with no trouble since the Shing Jae quests got me a few times). For those who want to know what to use i'll add the team builds on my user page tomorrow, but yeah TEF you have my support for the guide for GW Beyond. Da Mystic Reaper 20:50, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't know what people are whining about, so far I've found Winds of Change disappointingly easy (aside from Cleansing Haiju Lagoon and Cleansing the Silent Surf). I was also disappointed when they nerfed The Battle for Lion's Arch because it went from difficult and exciting to another quest where you can flag your heroes and afk for success. Most people these days just load a team build from PvX without knowing how it works, pop a conset, and expect their heroes to do all the work. Try playing without cons, without PvX, and without mindlessly following others' example. You'll have more fun and you'll learn how to play better, so that when you come across something that really is difficult, you can pop a consumable or two and carry on. -- Kirbman 15:37, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

(Caveat lector: I haven't finished Factions yet) I'm with Kirbman on the question of learning how to play. Every time I've had a hard time with something, I've learned something about how to play. For example, Jennur's Horde firmly taught me the lesson about aggro control because I was getting creamed by what felt like about thirty margos all at once. In Defense of the Eye taught me that you have to look for unconventional alternatives, because just beating my head on the centaurs at the bottom of the stairs wasn't working. Combining these ideas (aggro control and unconventional approaches) got me through Tahnnakai Temple (me a Warrior, and I H/H'd it without using melee at all). And so on. So when my paragon made it Ascalon City, I sent her round The Great Northern Wall by herself, and had a blast doing it, because I knew how to handle the solo-paragon mode, and, let's face it, because nothing there posed a significant threat to a fully-equipped level 20 paragon... Cynique 16:09, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

In my opinion, Winds of Change IS a step up from the difficulty of HM missions and the War in Kryta. The combination of extremely high-level monsters that also use meta-builds, unique monster skills and random skill sets (where monsters that share the same name could have vastly different builds) make Part 1 of Winds of Change quite challenging. (And I say this as somebody who's completed Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, Eye of the North and War in Kryta in both NM and HM using only H/H, so I'm pretty confident that my Heroes have above-average quality skill bars.) Fortunately, things DO get easier once you get past the Afflicted quests; the Jade Brotherhood/Am Fah/Ministry/Sensali are nowhere near as brutal as the Afflicted. For me personally, the difficulty of the Part 2 NM WoC quests is just right.

I AM concerned that the current trend towards ever-increasing difficulty will eventually put much of the Beyond content out of reach of the skill level of most players, however. People SHOULDN'T be forced into taking min-maxed meta-builds + possible consumables every single time just to have a chance of success. I want some variety in my teams other than the usual Panic mesmer, SoS rit, Resto/MM, Unyielding Aura monk etc. etc. - Zaxares 07:07, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

"Extremely high level" is a fallacious statement. You've faced higher level foes in NM before. -- Armond Warblade 15:50, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

The fact that you do face higher-level monsters like Titans/Shiro'ken/Torment Demons in NM doesn't negate the fact that level 26 Afflicted are still considerably higher in level than the player, enough to give them a distinct advantage in increased damage and critical hits. (Not to mention that even in NM, bosses in Winds of Change seem to be an average level of 30, an amazing state of affairs when you consider that the rarest, most powerful beings in the world, like Glint, Shiro, Dhuum or Abaddon are only level 30/31!) - Zaxares 01:25, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Here's the joke, though: increased damage, critical hits, and - the important one, which you missed - armor generally aren't enough to make enemies hard. Most of hard mode involves foes higher level than the WoC foes, but is still fairly easy - certainly easier than the WoC foes. I'd say Glint NM is easier than most of the afflicted, and she has a four level advantage on them. Thus my statement that level isn't a huge concern; it's the improved (read: not awful) skill bars that make these foes difficult. -- Armond Warblade 03:42, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

I second the thing about level not being a critical factor. In their respective contexts, level 1 pre-Searing Bandit Firestarters are more dangerous than (in the same context) the level 5 Rogue Bull, and (in a different context, admittedly) the level 30 HM Snow Wurms outside Boreal Station. The real difference? Skills, damage output, and also the fact that you can stand off from the wurms and plink them with a reasonable weight bow, and they can do nothing in return because they can't reach you. Cynique 04:31, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I agree with the difficulty. As a casual player, I've completely hit a brick wall with the Rescue at Minister Cho's Estate quest. Even before that, I would die constantly trying to cleanse the different areas. Mind you, the character I'm using has almost no heroes, so I was using henchman. It's just not fun. I could understand Hard Mode being this difficult, but isn't normal mode suppossed to be for the "casual players". --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.170.69.137 (talk).

Winds of Change isn't truly difficulty - except for the odd quest, but overall, it's kind of tedious. To make it 'hard' seems to mean 'throw a bunch of things at you, again and again and again'. There's really no reason to make it 'master difficulty', the quests should be interesting, not really combat-intense. That's my big complaint with Winds of Change.  :\ I'd like it a lot more if it wasn't a combat-slog. Tashiro 16:28, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

I personally don't find it too difficult just insanely long. By the end of part 1 on my second char I was exhausted from the length. I will not be doing WoC on every char like I did WiK. I just don't have that much time and patience to cleanse all those areas over and over. The final part of WoC wasn't bad I actually enjoyed that but I refuse to go through the first part again just to get to the second part. The length of WoC is not justified either as the rewards imo really suck. Brian78wa talk 17:14, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Poor rewards? Compared to completing, say, Eye of the North, you get a lot more money, and are guaranteed some sellable items. Manifold 17:34, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Changes to explorable areas question mark icon

Do you mind if I change the question mark icon () to something that looks like a question mark such as this ()? The purple one looks like a speech bubble and the question mark inside is too tiny to notice. Darthlight 22:49, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Please update the existing template to allow variation, rather than creating a new template (no reason for them to be confused with similar names). Template:Yes has some examples of how to do that. (And the tango question-mark is fine for this page.) 75.37.17.249 23:11, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Even better, use Template:Ask with --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 23:32, 12 October 2011 (UTC)

Using {{ask}} is a bad idea because that template has a specific purpose that prevents it from being updated. In contrast, {{?}} has room for variation. I'm going to update the latter and this page, which is consistent for how we treat other icons, e.g. {{yes}} or {{no}}. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:06, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Erm, nvm. I was thinking of {{Offer dialog}}, which already depends on {{ask}}. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:10, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

Tips for WoC HM

I haven't seen many general strategies for completing HM posted on the wiki, so I'll post a couple here (Relocate if necessary). Strategy doesn't change much from the rest of the game to WoC, but maybe a reminder would be helpful

1) Tank and Spank is as effective a strategy as always. Whatever variation you choose doesn't matter, as long as the individual initially aggroing isn't dying. Coaxing the enemies into a ball makes it easy to bring them down. Remember to make sure the tank has lower health than the rest of the party.

2) If you're soloing and can't tank very effectively, another effective strategy is using meat shields. Flagging your hero group back, while flagging a Minion Master about an aggro bubble ahead is a useful formation. Pulling the enemies with a longbow back to the necro will keep them occupied with the minions preventing your party from taking AoE damage. After the enemies are in aggro range of the minions cancel your hero flagging so that your whole party gets engaged.

The same effect above can be accomplished by running an Rt/X or X/Rt and using an SoS build with Summon Spirits and Armor of Unfeeling to give the spirits some staying power. Use summon Spirits to pull them out of AoE, moving the spirits backwards should be avoided for the most part.

3) Prioritize Targets based on threat. If your soloing with heroes that usually means an elementalist is your biggest threat. Try to take them down first, but focus on monks and ritualists if you are having difficulty bringing enemies down.

4) Bring Shutdown via Knock Downs and Interrupts

5) Take Mesmers in you're midline. Make sure one of them has Panic. Ineptitude builds are effective against melee.

6) Take a necro hero with prots, they get more energy to play with. Throw BiP on a necro as well, this allows for more skills on your party's bars to be dedicated to bringing down enemies as opposed to energy management. 1 Elite vs 8+ skill slots is worth the tradeoff.

7 )Take battle rezes such as By Ural's Hammer, Vengeance, Unyielding Aura, or Death Pact Signet.

8) USE Stand Your Ground in your team build somewhere.

9) Soul Twisting Ritualist heroes using Shelter and Union are highly effective in party survival.

10) More than anything the first 3 Tips are the most important. I found myself more successful when I use more of these 9 suggestions together. ~>Sins WDB 05:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Guide to hard mode. --Silver Edge 07:17, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Trivia

I suggest that we add under the above title that the Wind of Change title comes from the original term that designated the Africa decolonisation of the Great British Empire, anyone else agrees ? --PrestigeTalk 23:44, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

i disagree*.- Zesbeer 23:47, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, it's just a general term. elix Omni 00:43, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

My first thought was don't be silly (the first entries from Google are about the song by Scorpions or Guild Wars...or a disambig at Wikipedia). Then I came across this:

"Now a cliché but originally a striking metaphor, ...because of the circumstances in which it was first used...[during] a speech by [then-Prime Minister] Harold Macmillan, ...referring to the strength of African national consciousness... and he introduced the phrase when ...addressing the South African parliament (1960), which ...was rigorously committed ...to ...apartheid: '." — source

Now, that's not my first choice for a reference source, but according to this source, (a) William Safire (a noted etymologist) confirms that the idea/phrasing predates Macmillan (who actually said Wind not Winds, but everyone corrected him), but quoted the Christian Science Monitor as noting that the PM had, in fact, coined a phrase. And (b) nearly all subsequent uses of the term are +/- ancestors of Macmillan's usage.

So, do we ignore the origins of a cliché because it's a cliché (and this wiki documents Guild Wars, not the origins of phrases). Or do we attempt to help educate the masses who are playing GW instead of studying for their history exams? Personally, I wouldn't object to a short note (first used by Macmillan in 1960, to note the nationalism sweeping across Africa)...but I also think it's fine if we leave it out (especially since, aside from the three words, there's little/no connection to the storyline). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 21:56, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

You guys need to fix your memory. If you don't see what I mean: "This one isn't a reference to anything beyond that it fits the story of what's happening, and the ramifications that it has." - signed John Stumme. It's not a reference to anything. We say... again and again. Maybe that should be marked in the trivia. ~_~ Konig/talk 22:16, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm not claiming Stumme et al intended to make a reference. That's why I never write, "this is a reference to..." unless there's developer confirmation. The point the IP is making is that, intended or not, there's a significant historical background to the phrase, which we can choose to document (or not). In effect, Stumme would be unlikely to have chosen the phrase except for Macmillan's speech, even if he had never heard of the PM...or Apartheid.

As ambivalent as I am about mentioning the reference, I don't have a problem with noting that Stumme has said that there was no particular reason behind the name. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 22:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

In order to be a reference, it must be intentional. If it isn't intentional, then it isn't a reference but rather merely similarities - just as the MoP have similarities with the Ministry of Love despite the fact Stumme never read 1984. Similarities are not worth mentioning, imo, as in this day and age, there will be millions of similarities between any one work and the rest of the world. They become irrelevant. And I'm sorry but you're wrong in saying that "the IP is making is that, intended or not, there's a significant historical background to the phrase". Why? Because "the Wind of Change title comes from the original term": s/he is stating that this is the origin of the phrase (mistakenly called a term), not that the phrase has a significant historical background. It is a tedious stretch and the only connection there could be is that Stumme was influenced by an over-used phrase. But honestly... that could be the case with oh so many things on this wiki, and I still fail to see the worth in mentioning it. Konig/talk 22:59, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

There are intended references and unintended ones — you may wish to categorize the latter type as similarities, but readers commonly relegate both to the same term, reference. That is why my approach is to state the facts and let the reader draw their own conclusions from the evidence.

In this case, I've noted above that the phrase has a well-documented historical origin (it's a well-worn phrase for a reason). We can choose to put that in a bullet point under trivia ... or not.

I agree with you that the phrase in question is barely relevant. Since this is a wiki about a game (and not an all-encompassing encyclopedia), it probably doesn't make sense to note the phrase's origins. But that's up to the community to decide. Which is why I offer the background.

To be clear, I'm not asking that we do add such a note — at best, I've said that I have no objection if others do. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:17, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent) no i have added trivia that is more on topic on this wiki and it has gotten removed for no real reason just because someone didn't think it was trivia, even if it was. so i still go with no i think if anet comes out and says its a reference or gives us some trivia about something then we add it other wise no.- Zesbeer 00:57, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

In my case, I wouldn't mind at all if the suggestion I made above was not implemented. I must say that the user Tennessee Ernie Ford marked a point there.

There are intended references and unintended ones

Therefore, if any trivia was needed at all, we should ask the company (Arena Net) for verification, who knows ? Maybe they had no clue about the British Empire term Wind(s) of Change and they wouldn't mind having that in the Trivia. PrestigeTalk 23:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

/facepalm anet AKA John Stumme has already said "This one isn't a reference to anything beyond that it fits the story of what's happening, and the ramifications that it has." read what has already been written...- Zesbeer 23:12, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) I fail to see how someone can refer to something without knowing of that "something." It's like I was to make fun of a person without ever knowing that person even exists. This is why some comedy shows have a little warning at the beginning of the show stating that no characters (sometimes events as well) are based off of living individuals (/real events) - in case someone sees a reference that isn't really there. This is the same case: there isn't a reference, but people are seeing a similarity and are trying to make it a reference. Konig/talk 23:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Account-wide Spawn Changes

Could someone in some official capacity help me with this, please?

I've observed that the WoC spawn changes for areas such as Bukdek Byway appear to apply account-wide. My characters who have not so much as done the main Factions campaign yet will hear the NPCs talk about how the streets are so much better now that the Afflicted are gone. This happens during the quest Welcome to Cantha which is just completely off, because now you will have Mhenlo's comments about the depredations of the plague interspersed with peasants commenting about the Ministry of Purity's good work in cleaning out the Afflicted.

If I have a friend who is just starting Factions, and I accompany her on any of my characters, will she get to experience the original storyline properly?

If the answer is no, isn't this a terrible bug that should be fixed asap? MeiOfTheNorth 05:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

haven't had this issue (10 toons only 2 of them have done woc none of the remaining 7 have this problem) are you sure you are not partying with people who has done woc? (if your party leader has a quest active or has done it it might change the spawns) if you feel its a bug then u should post it on the support forums- Zesbeer 06:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm all alone in these instances. MeiOfTheNorth 06:31, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

This happened to me as well; I posted about it in the support forums here. -- Hong 07:12, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

If it was indeed account-wide as reported above, then that was a horrid bug and must have been fixed in the last fortnight. (I just tested it.) The Am Fah are still there on my non-WoC characters, despite the still-bugged peasants saying that changes have happened. Thank goodness that they actually have not, except on those characters who are doing WoC.

That would have been totally appalling, destroying any possibility of playing the campaign normally on younger characters. It's bad enough as it stands, that an elder character who has started WoC can no longer play the classic Cantha campaign with other players, help guildies and so on, because the spawns cannot be changed back by temporarily deleting a quest. Our WoC characters are now tainted by the spawns not being resettable. For those of us who enjoy helping people in Factions, it's ruined part of the game. Morgaine 18:37, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

It was wanted with War in Kryta, but detested with Winds of Change.

Go figure. Konig/talk 18:46, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

There are two entirely distinct issues being raised:

1. Can WoC dialogues be heard by characters who have not finished Factions? Yes, as noted on the support forum and acknowledged by Zack. (This issue was discovered relatively recently and possibly was only introduced with Chapter II.)
2. Does the WoC-storyline dominate Factions, i.e. what spawns will a team see if it includes a Factions-newbie and a WoC-started toon? Again, yes, WoC trumps Factions. This has been observed since the early days of Chapter I, but only acknowledged recently by ANet (see the same bug report linked above).

The first issue is entirely cosmetic (annoying, but doesn't impact non-roleplaying gameplay). The second issue is, as mentioned all over, a big deal. The good news is both are now listed as bugs in ANet's database. (The bad news is we did a poor job of letting ANet know about the second case early, so they didn't know they needed to address it when they released Chapter II.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:50, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Part 3

Anyone know when we are suppose to get part 3?--Icyyy Blue 22:02, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

the goal that john stumm stated was that he waited it done by the end of the year soooo....- Zesbeer 00:34, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Wanted, not waited. Just to make some clarification to prevent confusion. Konig/talk 02:50, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

yea wanted don't know how i got to waited but ok gg meh- Zesbeer 08:03, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

That means before christmas most likely? 82.161.39.143 16:43, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Before New Years, actually. If they hit their goal... Getting a bit close, and they always add new Winters stuff that'll take WoC time.Konig/talk 17:59, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Holidays season always have been a time of little updating. Knowing that they are also working on the paragon and after Wintersday we also have the Canthan New Year now long after it. With all the work that needs to be done expect that it will take a bit longer. Da Mystic Reaper 18:51, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

I doubt CNY would take much time, since they never add anything new to it - not even new hats. *cough* Konig/talk 18:58, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

Hmm if WoC pt.3 comes in 2012, does that mean they're putting back the Guild Wars 2 release another 20 years? Weindrasi 16:45, 4 December 2011 (UTC)Weindrasi

I wonder how many times this has been said... Beyond and GW2 are not related in terms of release in any way. 18:12, 4 December 2011 Konig/talk

Morostav Trail

Should be noted on the table that even though the mobs on one side are replaced by Blood Drinkers/Fungal Wallows, foes near Unwaking Waters (Kurzick) outpost, including the shiro'ken ritualist boss have dissapeared (this isn't the only group of afflicted near the outpost, there used to be others fighting the wardens and plants, but they also have dissapeared). This shoud be noted for the people going for the skill hunter track, as it is much easier to cap Soul Twisting before completing the Cleansing Morostav Trail, as the other boss that you can cap ST from is pretty far in the Raisu Palace area ( Defiant Ancient Sseer ). 95.180.84.110 21:48, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Why y u no add part 3 yet?

I am bored! -- Zayeban 20:16, 29 December 2011(UTC)

IP, Y U NO sign in when signing with a name (that doesn't appear to exist)? --zeeZ 20:52, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Why no add? Uhh... Wintersday! Or maybe the elementalist skill update taking up alot of work? Well who knows why but you can't expect it during the last part of the year of the year due to the large holiday events that take up alot of work. Da Mystic Reaper 21:29, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

1.) @Zeez Y U NO make sense dude, if u are refairring to my name, guess what?.. yours doesn't either. Its my nickname who cares about it anyway. 2.) It's ment to be a joke. 3.) Wintersday is old sh** content and boring to do after u have done it for the last 2 years. I want new stuff. 4.) Not every one in the game is a elementalist, that doesn't mean the rest of us must wait, because of it. -- Zayeban 22:59, 29 December 2011(UTC)

1) Except I am signed in to the account I sign as. 2,3,4) Talk pages are meant for discussion on the article, not for jokes about how a random person likes/dislikes whatever the article is about. This whole thing right now is completely out of place. --zeeZ (talk) 22:24, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Might be a nice addition for Canthan New Year perhaps? :D Simooshy 08:57, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

For? No. We saw how that turned out last time (they had to remove the holiday quest and add in a nearly identical year round quest so that people wouldn't be forced to wait for the event to come around to continue the story). With? Sure, they did it before. Konig/talk 22:11, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Pedantry increased to 92. 77.101.36.30 00:39, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

FAQ

According to the Winds of Change FAQs. "Winds of Change will take place in three phases throughout the rest of 2011." Guess not. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Johnisabear (talk).

Things don't always go as planned? Who knew. Konig/talk 20:53, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Thats how anet always have done things (post EotN); plan it in and delay it as long as possible with perfectionism. Da Mystic Reaper 21:13, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

We can always hope they're spending time adding in code to reset the spawns. <crossing fingers and hoping> Daddicus 00:53, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure about spawn resets, but I read that they are planning to fix the bugs that forced newer Factions toons to deal with WoC-ready mobs. (Reminder: midway through WiK, the spawns couldn't be reset, but post-WiK, it's just a matter of taking/dropping a local bounty to toggle them on/off.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:42, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Source: "In the future, I’d like to put out an update that makes some revision to the Winds of Change content – namely making some of the first phase quests optional, and adjusting some of the difficulty." - John Stumme (IncGamers) – --The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tub (talk • contribs) at 01:59, 4 January 2012 (UTC).

I think it will come around 20th January, give or take 1 or 2 days -- Zayeban (93.103.70.246) 16:31, 5 January 2011(UTC)

I don't have a problem with them delaying content to make it better, however they should at least ping a status update if they miss their stated deadlines.--Stratzvyda 15:05, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

I did some beta testing for EA and if they are working similarly they would want to get the bugs out of the system before WOC pt3. We could be talking couple days to a few weeks/months. Beowulf

20 January went by and still no WoC pt3. /sad face. If it's taking so much time, then i hope for their sake, that pt3 will be long and epic. If not, im going to be disapointed! -- Zayeban (93.103.70.246) 11:07, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

"As pretty much the whole studio is snowed out of the office at the moment, we weren't able to push the update yesterday." User:Robert Gee/Journal There was one intended yesterday, but it couldn't go through. WoC p3 may or may not have been planned for that update. Konig/talk 21:31, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

They do deserve some well earned rest for sure. So have fun, take care and watch your knees, cuz there's arrows just everywhere! -- Zayeban (93.103.70.246) 22:15, 22 January 2011(UTC)

So...when? 93.146.134.144 16:04, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

...it's ready. Da Mystic Reaper 16:18, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Then release 3rd part plssss 93.146.134.144 17:37, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

lol. Like what you did there Reaper! Titan Crow 17:39, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Would it be possible to get some screens of the devs vanquishing WoC Cho Estate ? We want to know how well we did, compared to them :) Yseron - 90.15.191.235 01:17, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

has now been ~6 months since release.

Still don't know what the imperial weapons look like. Is this normal?--69.225.3.183 00:58, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

File:User MadMaxx ImpPreview.png & Gallery of Imperial weapons. Theres what the weapons will look like. File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 01:13, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we knew what Oppressor's weapons looked like until the WiK content was nearly over. Certainly didn't know their names until the end. Konig/talk 04:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

no we knew cus there was that hero glitch that let you get past in Divinity Coast and they had white mantel that had the weapons on them there.- Zesbeer 06:14, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Though I don't think they had all 11 weapons there. Either way, it's no different than how it is now - except then it was unintentional. Konig/talk 06:19, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Once upon a time, six months got us a new campaign. Nowadays, it takes much, much longer to do anything - maybe because we're not paying them anything. In short, when ANet gives no release date, I expect no release date until proven otherwise. -- Armond Warblade 22:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Once upon a time, there were more than 3 devs, 1 programmer, and some of the QA and art team's time being spent on GW. Those were the days. Konig/talk 23:26, 3 February 2012 (UTC)